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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

House Vote Makes Trump First President to be Impeached Twice; Biden to Senate: Pursue Impeachment and Other Urgent Business; McConnell Won't Bring Senate Back Until Trumps Last Day in Office; Trump Urges No Violence in Video Following Second Impeachment. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired January 14, 2021 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world, this is EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.

LAURA JARRETT, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Laura Jarrett. It's Thursday, January 14. It's 4 a.m. here in New York. And we begin this morning with President Trump impeached again. He is the first president in the United States history to be impeached twice, this time for inciting a deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA) U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: The ayes are 232, the nays are 197. The resolution is adopted. Without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JARRETT: House impeachment managers just starting to lay out their strategy for the case. A key issue remains whether to subpoena documents or witnesses. That could, of course, prolong the trial in the Senate. There was bipartisan condemnation of the president and all of his enablers from shaken lawmakers yesterday, but big questions this morning. When will the single article of impeachment be sent to the Senate? What will the trial of the soon to be former president look like and will the Senate convict him this time around? CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is live for us on Capitol Hill. Suzanne, what's the very latest?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well good morning. Impeachment 2.0, nothing like what we had actually covered in December 2019. It was lightning speed fast and it really united Democrats behind impeachment effort. But also what we saw as well is ten Republicans getting behind the impeachment. The final numbers, 232 to 197.

Of those Republicans standing out, the number three Republican representative Liz Cheney being among them. But they were moderates, conservatives, new members as well, all getting behind that single article of impeachment for the president's role in inciting the violence that has just occurred one week ago. And the false accusations of a fraudulent election.

Many of the lawmakers said that what really convinced them to hold the president accountable, even the Republicans as well, was the fact that they saw videos afterwards. After they had huddled close together, just the degree, the extent of the fear and the danger and the calls of assassination for the vice president and Speaker Pelosi. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP PETER MEIJER (R-MI): Unless we address this and tackle it head on, unless we make sure to send a resounding message that this is not acceptable, then we risk just papering over some of these divisions. And then the wounds will never truly heal, you know, unless we air them out, unless we fully understand what happened and unless we send that signal this is not something that can ever be acceptable from an American leader.

REP. DAN NEWHOUSE (R-WA): The president took an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Last week there was a domestic threat at the door of the Capitol, and he did nothing to stop it.

REP. JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER (R-WA): My fellow Americans, I rise today to stand against our enemy and to clarify our enemy isn't the president or the president-elect. Fear is our enemy. Fear tells us what we want to hear, it incites anger and violence and fire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (on camera): Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell is signaling privately that, yes, he approves of the impeachment process and perhaps that these were impeachable offenses, but he is not scheduling for the Senate to come back until they are resumed to come back, that being January 19th, the day before the inauguration. But quietly telling colleagues that he believes that potentially this could purge Trump from the Republican Party if there's a successful conviction. That would take 2/3 in the Senate or at least 17 members of the Republican Party.

But McConnell saying this in a letter to his GOP colleagues.

While the press has been full of speculation, I have not made a final decision on how I will vote, and I intend to listen to the legal arguments when they are presented to the Senate.

That is very significant, Laura, when you consider the last go round, he said he would not even be -- be able to be an impartial juror. So the fact that he is able to listen to this and consider it is significant. At the same time, we will see the Democrats who will control the Senate when they come back in this impeachment process, the trial continues and that would be under the Democratic leader, the new leader Schumer. JARRETT: Yes, things could not be more different this time around.

Suzanne, thank you for that.

MALVEAUX Thank you.

ROMANS: Meanwhile, President-elect Joe Biden is walking a fine line this morning with President Trump's impeachment now sealed, Biden cannot ignore the trial in the Senate.

[04:05:00]

He still has a country to run and he expects lawmakers to multi-task. Saying this nation also remains in the grip of a deadly virus and a reeling economy. I hope that the Senate leadership will find a way to deal with their constitutional responsibilities on impeachment while also working on the other urgent business of this nation. CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Laura and Christine. One week from today Joe Biden will be the president of the United States. In fact, he'll be about 12 hours or more than that into his first term, and the question here is impeachment. That is one thing that he is inheriting from the Trump presidency. It's nothing he's enthusiastic about of course but it's something that he simply has to deal with.

But I am told that Biden aides and advisers are working behind the scenes with Senate Democrats as well as House impeachment managers to try to keep the impeachment trial as swift and efficient as possible. The reason is this, Joe Biden wants to keep his focus in the early days on passing a COVID relief bill, getting more money out to vaccination distribution and also getting his nominees confirmed. Defense secretary, secretary of state, the head of the DNI, the national intelligence community. This is all of his chief concerns.

So we are going to hear from the president-elect tonight here in Wilmington. He'll be putting some, you know, finishing touches on his COVID plan, exactly what he is calling for. Of course he supports $2,000 checks for Americans here, a significant boost from the last COVID relief package. But even though he is focusing on his agenda, one thing is clear, impeachment will be there waiting for him when he takes office -- Laura and Christine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JARRETT: Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much for that.

Now six days until Joe Biden's inauguration. Let's bring in CNN senior political analyst John Avlon and Daily Beast Washington bureau chief Jackie Kucinich, also a CNN political analyst. Great to see you all this morning. Thanks for getting up extra early. Jackie, first to you, how do only ten house Republicans support Trump's impeachment? It was zero last time of course when he was impeached but there wasn't a deadly insurrection that time. How do only 10, 10 out of that entire caucus vote for impeachment?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think there's a lot of reasons. First, we should say this is more people in the same party than have ever voted for impeachment of the president of the same party. So 10 while it doesn't seem like a lot is actually a historic number just, you know, just stepping back.

But, you know, you had Democratic members saying their Republican colleagues, some of them were actually afraid to stand up to the president and their supporters because of threats which is in and of itself terrorism. But -- and then you know, there are others who are true believers. And we heard them on the floor last night as well. Some of them, you know, saying that there was a lot of what about-ism going on.

But, yes, the more we learn about what happened at the Capitol, the worse it gets. So it's unlikely that these ten Republicans are going to look back on the vote and regret it.

ROMANS: Senator Mitch McConnell says he has not made a decision yet on impeachment. Wow. You know, what a seismic shift, by saying so little he says so much here. Because he has defended, enabled and supported this president through basically everything for four years. He couldn't keep his caucus in line for the Electoral College vote. Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz and others went rogue. So John Avlon, what is McConnell's thinking now? And will other Republicans follow his lead?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well I'm sure he's counting votes and he also probably wants to be done with Donald Trump. He got what he wanted. He got his judges. He navigated that relationship, but in the end, Donald Trump hurt Republicans. They lost seats and they lost the Senate because of Trump's narcissistic behavior and focus in the run up to the Georgia runoff.

So I think there are two things at play here. I mean he could have gotten the Senate to convene earlier than January 19th. There's a question whether there would have been enough Republican votes to actually convict the president. In this case he actually sort of, the argument goes, keeps the president on good behavior because he wants something, i.e., not to be impeached. And also creates potential complications for a Biden presidency going forward. But keep in mind, in the House and I believe in the Senate when this is heard, this will be the most bipartisan impeachment in American history and that means a lot, even if the numbers don't seem impressive from a distance.

JARRETT: Jackie, I think it is fair to say there is a crisis within the Republican Party and there is a basic question of what comes next now that Trump has basically burned the barn down with his way out the door. You have members of the far-right who want Congresswoman Liz Cheney out of leadership for voting to impeach yesterday. Cheney by the way said she's not going anywhere. She's not intimidated by the likes of Jim Jordan. These lawmakers experienced firsthand the mob that stormed the Capitol. They all experienced it. And then the victims got to indict the man behind the mob.

But listen to the House Republican leader, Kevin McCarthy. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[04:10:00]

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA) MINORITY LEADER: The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JARRETT: So McCarthy now says Trump bears responsibility, but he voted against his impeachment. And that apparently angered even some of his own staffers. That's how we know about it. So how do Republicans find their way forward in all of this?

KUCINICH: That's a good question, Laura. Because you're right, there are a lot of internal riffs. There are voters that are angry with their members for, you know, either voting for it or voting against it. You know we should say that Liz Cheney -- a lot of these same members came out -- Liz Cheney mid last year because she was going up against the president and didn't show the same resonance that you had -- that other Republican members have shown.

But you know, going forward there's still going to be a minority. There's more of them. But there's a real reckoning internally as to, you know, how they do go forward as a party for sure and, you know, in the Senate. We'll see that as well because they're not in the majority over there either.

ROMANS: You know, John, Joe Biden has a country to run. And you know, he's urging the Senate not let impeachment put a stop to other work. He's going to lay out his COVID rescue package today. He talks about a country whose economy is reeling. It needs to be healed. He's got confirmation hearings now on the calendar this Friday for the nominee to lead the intel community. Four others set for next week. Pragmatically can this divided Senate do it all, do what Joe Biden needs to do right away out of the gate and also proceed with the Senate trial of the former president at the time?

AVLON: Sure it can. But Biden's going to front load his agenda. Look, the fact that Democrats control the chamber cannot be overstated. Also the fact Biden enters the presidency, the most experienced legislator to hold the office since L.B.J. And there are areas of clear bipartisan consensus forced by the pandemic. Even impeachment itself looks like there could be some degree of bipartisanship. But Biden is not going to sacrifice his agenda on the altar of convicting Donald Trump. He's going to put building his administration first.

And frankly, given the resistance that the Trump administration has given him to from Operation Warp Speed, to the DOD, to the OMB which is absolutely another break and destruction of democratic norm, he needs to get up to speed fast and that means front loading his agenda and nominations ASAP.

JARRETT: John Avlon, Jackie Kucinich, thanks to both of you. We're going to get you back in a little bit.

ROMANS: Thanks guys.

ROMANS: Still ahead, the president's reaction to a second impeachment. A whole lot of blame, no responsibility.

[04:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: We are now in the final week of the Trump presidency. Out of sight and cut off from social media, the lame duck president has been left to stew in the White House following his second, his historic second impeachment on Wednesday he released a video. But we learned more from what he didn't say than what he did. CNN's Joe Johns this morning, super early and live at the White House for us. Good morning Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. You know that video was really all about the president of the United States. It was a cleanup video, and the president's lawyers over at the White House had warned him that if he didn't do something, he was going to be in even more jeopardy of being sued, of being prosecuted. So he goes out and does a video and tells all his supporters that they need to stop the violence. But there are a whole lot of things the president didn't say.

He didn't talk about the transition of power. He didn't talk about Joe Biden and he didn't talk about probably the most important thing, which is all the lies he told in the weeks and weeks leading up to this impeachment. What is happening over at the White House is that the president remains hold up inside watching TV virtually blaming everybody but himself for his predicament. And people in the White House as well are pointing fingers at each other as a result.

The president has essentially gotten everybody riled up, but at this point we're also hearing that there have been some reprises of past things the president has done. Including a report in "The New York Times" that the president actually wanted to go up to Capitol Hill to make the case for himself, this is a rerun of something that happened during his last impeachment. But frankly, too late for that because at the end of the day, this is the president's legacy. It's a lot of chaos. It's a lot of dividing the country. Back to you.

ROMANS: And Joe, you have an anecdote of one aide there talking about the lies, just the lies and sort of what a lesson it is to your kids.

JOHNS: Absolutely.

ROMANS: Tell us about that.

JOHNS: You know well, one aide telling CNN that the president essentially has set himself up in the position wherefore all of the future he's going to become the example of what happens to people who continue to lie, and that's something we've been talking about probably for the last four years. ROMANS: Yes, five if you count the election, the last election. Joe

Johns, thank you so much. Talk again soon.

Let's bring back John Avlon and Jackie Kucinich. You know, we've been talking that, Joe Johns mentioning that Trump advisor, talking about how this is going to be the example you use talking about your kids about lying the last years of this presidency, about telling the truth.

That may not be the case for everybody. A lot of Trump space still believes what they hear because they hear it on a loop from conservative media. Trump feeds the media, the media feeds him, this destructive cycle. Does impeachment move the needle for anyone -- John?

[04:20:00]

AVLON: I think it does. Because the fact he's the only president to be impeached twice, that he holds 50 percent of the impeachments in U.S. history indicates a degree of consequence for lying. The riot at the Capitol was a function of his lying and people believing it. The fever is not going to break overnight. But Republicans and White House staffers even are starting to admit in public that the president has lied to his supporters.

Now they're deeply invested in that lie because they will lose face and indeed part of their identity if they admit they have been lied to by their leader. But that is what is in fact happened. The more consequence and information that comes out, the more time that passes, the more that fever may begin to break.

JARRETT: Jackie, you have the backdrop of impeachment of course but you also have lawmakers who have other stuff they need to get done. Stuff from everyday people but the level of mistrust among them I just find so striking. You have Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill accusing the other side of essentially giving rogue tours, reconnaissance missions essentially, to some people before the riots last week.

You have Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley saying that the panic buttons in her office were ripped out as other members apparently are just aghast that they have to go through metal detectors. These are not policy disagreements. These people do not trust each other.

KUCINICH: Well right. I mean the installation of the metal detectors really was a striking thing. And you couldn't have members of Congress acting like adults and just walking through, now there is all of this complaining because, you know, the pin that they wear I guess it's very empowering.

But you're right. Just fundamentally usually -- you asked John if impeachment moved the needle. This riot moved the needle and I think there are very deep, deep -- particularly in that building, the people that did have to shelter, the people that were texting their families that they were alive. There are some deep wounds there and, you know, perhaps, you know, where you would have members arguing over policy and then they would go have a beer or coffee after work, that -- there are members saying that they worked with people there on the other side. That they can't look at in the eyes anymore because of their actions that day.

So these are divisions, these aren't policy divisions, this is personal. This is very personal for a lot of those members and those riffs are going to be extremely hard to mend going forward.

ROMANS: You know, John, the Republicans have aspirations for higher office are a pretty important group to watch here. Overnight Senator Tom Cotton said he opposes impeachment because Trump will already be out of office. That's something that Lindsey Graham also addressed last night. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We'll play this out. We impeached the president today without any evidence, it's just sheer hatred. If this becomes the norm, be careful what you wish for today. Under this theory, the radical left, if you can impeach a president after they're out of office, why don't we impeach George Washington? He owned slaves. Where does this stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Now once the Georgia Democrats are sworn into the Senate, it's going to take 17 Republicans to convict Trump and most likely stop him from running in 2024. He is still very popular. But are Republican really so afraid of alienating his base that they won't really band together here to keep him off the stage in the future?

AVLON: Well look, I mean they weren't so afraid of a lame duck who hurt them down ballot that they didn't fall in line, 66 percent of them in the house, to try to overturn the election despite the fact that most of them knew it was wrong and predicated upon a lie. This all makes it easier to do that, and obviously a degree of ambition will counter act. You know, it will serve to say, look, if we can block him from running, doesn't that benefit us?

But I wouldn't look for a lot of profiles in courage right now. It's fine to talk about precedent and be mindful of that, but what we saw here, inciting insurrection is a different moral universe than anything we've ever dealt with since the civil war.

And the point Jackie made I want to return to really quickly. Because as more information comes out about what people knew and when they knew it, about the role, you know, of some individuals who should -- if, indeed, the accusations are correct, that's very serious stuff. Because a lot of the circumstantial evidence is very troubling. And we're going to have to get to the bottom of that as a Congress and as a country and that will be more accountability before unity.

JARRETT: Talking about accountability, Jackie, I want to pivot here a little bit. We've talked so much this week about pardons and about whether the president is going to try to pardon himself. Backtrack, he can't pardon himself, but he may still try. But someone else could pardon him. And he's getting a little bit of support from an unexpected place. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Joe Biden should pardon Trump as Ford did Nixon?

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I don't know. He should consider it. Now I don't know whether Donald Trump, he's not a genius, but he might figure out if he accepts a pardon, that's an admission of guilt the United States Supreme Court has said.

[04:25:00]

So I don't know he would accept a pardon, but as part of healing the country and getting us to place where we can focus on things that are going to matter over the next four years. I think Joe Biden is going have to at least think about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JARRETT: Jackie, does Comey have a point?

KUCINICH: You know, I haven't asked the Biden camp about this particular comment, but I'm going to guess. There's an expression hard pass I think that might -- might come about.

JARRETT: Because of who it's coming from or the message?

KUCINICH: Yes.

JARRETT: Gotcha.

KUCINICH: I think it's both. Yes, I don't think he's a terribly popular person in anyone's politics at this point, but also, I mean, that -- the -- the ramifications of that, both internally and externally in the Democratic Party I think might be problematic, let's say, for a fledgling Biden administration.

JARRETT: Fair enough.

ROMANS: John Avlon, Jackie Kucinich, thanks, guys, nice to see you this morning, great conversation.

All right, a new CNN reporting suggest the attempted coup was more than a protest that got out of control.

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JARRETT: Breaking overnight, a new bulletin from U.S. intelligence agencies warning that last week riot at the Capitol is likely to serve as a significant driver of violence for extremists. The alert from the FBI, DHS and other agencies says the people who attacked the Capitol largely viewed that insurrection as a success. And it's only emboldened groups who will, quote, likely pose the greatest domestic terrorism threats in 2021. ROMANS: CNN has now learned investigators are pursuing signs the riot

was more intricately planned than first thought. Among the concerns, one of the top organizers of the movement to overturn the election claims.