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Former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi Dies at Age 86; Trump Expected to Travel to Miami Today Ahead of Historic Court Appearance in Classified Documents Case; Bill Barr Calls Trump Indictment Very Damning. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired June 12, 2023 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

MAX FOSTER, CO-ANCHOR, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello, I'm Max Foster with Bianca Nobilo in London getting breaking news out of Italy. The Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has died at the age of 86.

BIANCA NOBILO, CO-ANCHOR, CNN NEWSROOM: He died at San Raffaele Hospital in Milan in April, he was hospitalized for lung infection and complications tied to chronic leukemia.

FOSTER: We're joined by CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman, he's in Rome, and the country's lost a towering figure in politics.

[05:05:00]

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's true, Max. He dominated Italian politics for more than 20 years. He was prime minister four different times, he was a man who many Italians loved, some did not. He was very charismatic. He was somebody who -- I mean, I've attended some of his speeches, and he certainly had a charm that really came across.

So, he had broad appeal, but he had many critics as well. But certainly, in the last few years, what we've seen is, he has gradually faded from public life, as you mentioned, back in April, he was hospitalized. He was diagnosed as suffering from leukemia. So, it wasn't a complete surprise that perhaps, today was the day he would pass.

But it certainly was, as you said, a larger-than-life figure who many Italians looked up to and found to be quite inspiring. He was somebody who also had his troubles with the law. Back in 2013, he was convicted of tax evasion. He never actually served any time in jail because of his advanced age.

But as I said, he was somebody who appealed to many Italians because he was somebody who played the system to a certain extent. And he often times expressed the frustrations of many Italians with high taxes and an unwieldy bureaucracy, both of which, however, he at the end of his days was not able to overcome. Max, Bianca.

NOBILO: And Ben, Berlusconi was known for a populist political style and a very strong personality which you were just referencing. Having been the longest-serving post-war Italian prime minister, I believe. What impact does he leave on Italian politics?

WEDEMAN: Well, I think he's left an impact of sort of leaving real skepticism about the Italian system, about how it works or more correctly, how it doesn't work. But in the end, he wasn't really able to change much. For instance, the Italian economy for the 20 years from the first time he became prime minister, never actually grew.

The Italian economy has largely been stagnant since the early 1990s. So, he certainly threw an element -- he was almost a Trump-like figure without some of the more rougher sides of Trump. But he was somebody who rode a populist wave and remains to this day very popular. But in terms of actually changing how Italy functions, that's a very hard thing for even a larger-life figure -- larger-than-life figure of Berlusconi to do.

FOSTER: He was so engrained, wasn't he, with the entire culture? You know, he -- you know, owned "Mediaset", didn't he? Which is the biggest commercial broadcaster, AC Milan for many years, so he's much bigger than a politician, he was absolutely integral to much of that period of modern history?

WEDEMAN: Yes, he was a media tycoon, his "Mediaset Group" really dominated Italian television. And it came at a time when people were weary of the state-financed "RAI" channels. And he came along and really played to this desire for entertainment, rather than education. And he really was in many respects a self-made multi-billionaire, was considered one of the top 200 richest men in the world at the height of his wealth.

And his media empire really changed the atmosphere of Italian media. Much more populist, much more sort of low-brow, so-to-speak, but it did appeal to a broad swath of Italian -- the Italian population, and that really did sort of change the tone of the Italian media in ways that nobody could have imagined, say, 30 years ago.

FOSTER: OK, Ben, we are going to be looking at this throughout the day. So, Italian -- former Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi has died according to a local media reports. I mean, we've been talking a lot, haven't we? Recently about how he's been ill and people have been following. Still feels like a real shock.

NOBILO: Because he is such a towering figure as Ben was outlining, and as you said too, not just in terms of politics, but in terms of media and culture --

FOSTER: Yes --

NOBILO: We're starting to get reaction to a former Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi has called Berlusconi a man who made history in the country. So many have loved him, so many have hated him, all today must recognize that his impact on political life, that's quoting directly.

[05:10:00]

And I think that's a good some reason --

FOSTER: Yes --

NOBILO: As well, because he was a deeply polarizing figure ultimately.

FOSTER: And it will be interesting to here as Trump has only, say later on, because as Ben was saying, he was often compared to Donald Trump, the Italian Trump.

Former U.S. President Donald Trump will huddle with his legal team in the hours ahead, one day before he's set to walk into a federal court and face 37 criminal charges.

NOBILO: Those charges are related to his handling of classified documents after he left office. Trump has denied any wrongdoing and railed against the charges in comments over the weekend. His former attorney general is also speaking out and criticizing Trump's claim that he's being targeted and unfairly treated by the government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY: Here, I think the government acted responsibly. They gave him every opportunity to return those documents. They acted with restraint. They were very deferential to him, and they were very patient. They talked to him for almost a year to try to get those documents, and he jerked them around.

They finally went to a subpoena, and what did he do? According to the government, he lied and obstructed that subpoena. And then, they did a search and they found a lot more documents. And they're not even -- I don't think they're even sure now whether they have everything. So, they acted in a very patient way, and what they were met with was, according to the government and the indictment, very egregious obstruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Trump is planning to deliver remarks in the coming hours after his court appearance on Tuesday. Now, sources say that will happen at his Bedminster, New Jersey Golf Club where he'll be hosting a fundraiser. CNN's Katelyn Polantz has more from Miami.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER (on camera): The level of detail and evidence that the Justice Department has collected in this case has begun to sink in. And Donald Trump's own Attorney General, Bill Barr, one of his top people in his own administration who had gone to bat for him multiple times saying that investigations around Donald Trump should not have been taking place, previously was condemning the actions of the former president after he left the White House.

Because this indictment is so explicit, and the evidence that it has, because of the photos of documents in a bathroom at Mar-a-Lago, photos of boxes of documents spilled in a storage room, and then those 31 charges each representing a document that Donald Trump is accused of willfully retaining outside of the protected area of the federal government top secret documents. Classified documents. National security information. Here's more of what Bill Barr said to -- had to say on Sunday on "Fox News".

BARR: And this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here or a victim of a witch-hunt is ridiculous. Yes, he's been a victim in the past. Yes, his adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims. And I've been at his side defending against him when he is a victim. But this is much different. He's not a victim here.

He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents. Those documents among the most sensitive secrets the country has. He -- they have to be in the custody of the archivist, he had no right to maintain them and retain them, and he kept them in a way at Mar-a- Lago, the only one who really cares about national security, their stomach would churn at it.

POLANTZ: Now, with this indictment approved by the grand jury here in Florida, a process will kick off in the federal court system at this courthouse in Miami. So Donald Trump currently is going to be traveling because he needs to get here and face his charges in person. So, he's going to be traveling to Miami on Monday, along with his body man, Walt Nauta, a man also charged in this case, as part of the alleged obstruction part of this investigation.

And then they will stay at a resort -- at his resort, near Miami, and then huddle with lawyers. So they're going to be having to talk to their lawyers about what's going to be expected on Tuesday in federal court. And then Trump will come to court on Tuesday but he's going to have a lot of Secret Service protection around him.

It's very possible that there will be no live pictures of him, or even photographs of him coming into the building to face these charges for his initial appearance. There's no photos in federal court. There's no video inside the building either. And so, he'll have that proceeding, be read his charges and we expect him to enter a plea of not guilty at this time.

Afterwards, he's going to turn political again. The legal part of the day will be done and Trump is already announcing he's flying back to Bedminster, New Jersey, where he has his -- another resort, and he will be giving a speech. Katelyn Polantz, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[05:15:00]

FOSTER: The mayor of Miami says the city will hold a news conference in the hours ahead, focused on safety and security precautions at the courthouse ahead of Donald Trump's appearance on Tuesday. Mayor Francis Suarez spoke about the preparations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR FRANCIS SUAREZ, MIAMI, FLORIDA: I can tell you that in Miami, we're going to have a press conference on Monday to talk about safety and security. We want to make sure that all of our citizens know that they're going to be able to express their First Amendment rights, and at the same time, we're going to keep them safe and we're going to make sure that there's no disorder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Experts and CNN analysts are weighing in on the case and what impact it could have, not only on Trump, but on the Republican Party as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Our system of government absolutely -- our system of justice depends on people being innocent until proven guilty. It doesn't disqualify him, but his party should think twice about having as its standard-bearer someone who has put at risk, it appears, major American secrets.

The Republican Party has wrapped around -- it has wrapped itself around the U.S. Army, U.S. military, understandably, we have a great military. Our military depends on secrets and keeping secrets. Our military depends on the loyalty of those who have been entrusted with knowledge, foreknowledge of military actions.

The Republican Party, if it wishes to be the standard-bearer and the defender of the U.S. military must stand up now for American secrets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, some say with all the evidence cited in the indictment, this could be the most serious legal trouble that Trump has ever faced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The proof is so overwhelming that it doesn't mean we're not going to hear defenses from Donald Trump. I worked on the classified document rules that the government cited in its indictment, and there virtually is no defense for this. Anyone else who did this, once or twice, one or two documents would be looking at jail time.

This volume, 31 counts under the Espionage Act alone, and then the long pattern of alleged obstruction of justice, wow. The biggest legal jeopardy Donald Trump has ever faced by far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: And we'll have more on this ahead, including what some voters are saying about the indictment. Now, officials in the U.S. State of Pennsylvania say it could take months to repair a section of a major highway that collapsed on Sunday. This is Interstate 95 in Philadelphia which was heavily-damaged when a fuel tanker truck caught fire beneath it. And here's what one driver experienced as he drove near the area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first, I thought, OK, this is just a brush fire, and I hit that bump which was startling, but it's also in a section where they were doing construction. So, it all just kind of thought at the moment like OK, this is just, you know, a normal bump, a normal little brush fire. Then once I realized what happened when I looked in my rear-view mirror, I see 95, all the cars stopping, and then, I learned, you know, shortly after that, the road had just collapsed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: The city's mayor says no injuries or deaths have been reported so far, thankfully. Local and federal investigators are now trying to find out what started the destructive fire. CNN's Danny Freeman has more from Philadelphia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The big questions that we don't have an answer to yet are still why and how did this fire and this collapse happen. The governor and the city were not giving answers during a press conference Sunday evening, but I will tell you what we do know about how all this went down.

Basically just before 6:30 Sunday morning, there was a tanker truck that was sitting underneath i-95. That tanker truck then caught fire, and that fire is what ultimately led to the collapse of the northbound lanes on i-95. And the governor told us on Sunday that the southbound lanes also are not safe at this moment.

Now, currently, the truck is still trapped underneath that wreckage. We've been hearing all throughout the day, jack-hammering and heavy machinery working through the day to sift through that rubble. And while there have been no reported injuries, the governor said they are still working to see if anyone was actually alive in that truck when this collapse happened.

Now, the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation said that there are 500 tons of concrete mess now sitting on the ground, that's what officials have to sift through -- sift through. Take a listen to what Governor Shapiro said when he laid eyes on this incident first.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Remarkable devastation. And I found myself, you know, thanking the Lord that no motorists who were on 95 -- on i- 95 were injured or died. It's just a remarkably devastating sight. One that our first responders, law enforcement and others contained very quickly.

[05:20:00] They got people out of harm's way. And now, under leadership of

Secretary Carroll and others, the hard work of clearing the site, rebuilding it, will be under way and we're going to move as quickly as possible.

FREEMAN: Now, Governor Josh Shapiro said that this cleanup could take, quote, "some number of months." And just for some perspective, this is going to be a traffic nightmare. The Pennsylvania Department of Transportation said that this stretch of i-95 carries about 160,000 vehicles every single day. It's likely the busiest in the state of Pennsylvania. Danny Freeman, CNN, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Much more in just a moment, we'll be back in a moment.

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[05:25:00]

CHRISTINE ROMANS, ANCHOR, EARLY START: A few hours from now, former President Donald Trump will head to Miami ahead of his initial court appearance on a 37-count indictment related to mishandling of national security documents after he left office. And the public got its first look at the detailed indictment on Friday.

Let's bring in Robert Sanders; he's a National Security Associate Professor at the University of New Haven. He's also a former military lawyer. Good morning, so nice to see you. I want you to listen, sir, to part of what Trump's former AG Bill Barr said on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARR: Shocked by the degree of sensitivity of these documents and how many there were, frankly. And so, the government's agenda was to get those -- protect those documents and get them out. And I think it was perfectly appropriate to do that. It was the right thing to do. And I think the counts under the Espionage Act that he willfully retained those documents are solid counts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: As someone well versed in national security issues, what's your reaction?

ROBERT SANDERS, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR FOR NATIONAL SECURITY, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAVEN: Well, for the first time in many a year, I agree with Bill Barr. He -- what I can say that if only half of what was shown in that indictment was proven, Donald Trump will be convicted. And I agree with that as well.

ROMANS: Have you spoken to fellow national security experts about the indictment since Friday? You know, what has been the reaction from the community?

SANDERS: Well, the ones I've spoken with have been shocked, but on the other side of that coin, Donald Trump has done a lot of things to shock us over the tenure of his presidency and his post presidency. And that shock lined up with the things that we thought were true, that he was in fact a danger to national security.

Judge Wheaton said that, and I think Donald Trump in this indictment by the Department of Justice are proving both those things.

ROMANS: Based on what you've read from these -- what? Forty nine pages in this indictment, how strong do you think the government's case is here?

SANDERS: I think the government's case is very strong. They present a scheme to move hide a conspiracy -- to move hide -- and a conspiracy to hold -- withhold sensitive material from at least eight different intelligence community and Department of Defense organizations. All of that material was not authorized to be held by Donald Trump as a former president of the United States, as a regular citizen, as we all are, without a need to know and the clearances to have it.

Lastly, none of that material was held in the SCIF, the special sensitive compartmentalize facilities, where these type of materials need to be in order to protect them.

ROMANS: We know that Trump is expected to meet with his legal team today. I guess it's worth-noting that two of his former lawyers left the team on Friday. In your view, I mean, in the national security realm, what might their defense strategy look like going forward here?

SANDERS: Well, if the indictment counts hold, where Trump was actually personally involved, he's going to have to prove that his personal involvement was without the knowledge of these documents, and that his intent was somehow not unlawful. We have statements where he has said that he knew these documents are secret and he did not have the opportunity to -- the authority to hold on to them.

He keeps talking about the Presidential Records Act as somehow that is a cover for his activities. It's not. Those documents belong to the United States government in his post-presidency status. They needed to be returned to the United States government, and he acted in multiple ways according to the indictment to thwart that return.

ROMANS: All right, Robert Sanders of the University of New Haven, so great to have your expertise this morning. Thank you so much.

SANDERS: Glad to be with you, take care.

ROMANS: All right, coming up, what four children ate to survive for a month after a plane crash in the Amazon.

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