Return to Transcripts main page

Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Oxygen Expected to Run Out Soon in Titan Sub; Today: Biden Welcomes India's PM to White House; Special Counsel Durham Defends His Investigation; Severe Storm Threat Again Today in Central U.S. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired June 22, 2023 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:00:30]

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Right now on EARLY START, desperate hours in the search for the missing Titanic sub, still no sign of the craft as oxygen quickly runs out.

Plus, a deadly tornado strike, three people killed in northwest Texas. The state's second fiddle storm in less than a week.

And President Biden, about the welcome India's Narendra Modi for a state dinner, even though some of the policies maybe a little tough to swallow.

(MUSIC)

ROMANS: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Christine Romans.

We begin this morning with just hours remaining until the air runs out on that Titan submersible. The sub went missing Sunday morning, less than two hours after its launch to tour the wreck of the Titanic deep in the North Atlantic. A frantic search operation for the sub at the five peoples aboard expanding to an area twice the size of Connecticut, which is estimated 96 hours supply of oxygen, due to run out this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. AILEEN MARTY, FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY, FORMER NAVY PHYSICIAN: If they're still alive and we're looking at dwindling oxygen, that the decrease in oxygen, getting to the brain and the increase in carbon dioxide is a very panicky situation you feel your world closing in --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: CNN's Paula Newton is live in Halifax, Nova Scotia, a base of operations for the search.

Paula, what's going on there in these final hours of hope for a successful rescue?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You, know this search and rescue, both on the surface of the water, Christine, and in the deep sea will grow exponentially in the coming hours. And that is what rescue efforts were focused on today. When we talk about those banging noises, again, the U.S. Navy is saying, look, so far, it's inconclusive. But the point is that we will see more equipment on the scene later today, probably likely about ten ships as, all offering support to try and pinpoint exactly where that noises coming from and then being able to penetrate further depths to see if they could actually find that submersible.

You know, Christiane I know what we heard from the doctor was incredibly chilling right. Do you have to think of those people in that claustrophobic Titan, trying to conserve oxygen.

But experts I've spoken to, look, it is possible. And again, CEO Stockton Rush is on board. He has designed this and he knows that the backup capacity of oxygen is. I know, speaking to officials here in Canada that's what they're pinning their hopes on, because they know that anomalies like this have happened. Before people have survived longer than the prescribed oxygen said that they should have.

What is key, though, is the fact that the capacity to actually deep dive today will grow. And that's an important point both by a French team that there, but also other equipment that has to play from St. Johns further to the east of here at that site. What they're hoping for though is in the last few hours, in the coming hours that they will, again, hear those noises. And that will give them some clues.

I will say a coast guard was out there already yesterday. It does what they call side skin and just to pinpoint that they are able to actually skin the seabed and be able to more accurately see where those noises are coming from.

Christine, this will be a critical day in the search given that the Titan has gone missing now since Sunday.

ROMANS: Yeah, critical day indeed. All right, Paula, thank you so much for that.

We are learning more this morning about safety concerns raised by marrying technology experts, they expressed unease that the Titan submersible was designed to industry standards in the not been adequately tested.

CNN's Gabe Cohen has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL KOHNEN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, HYDROSPACE GROUP: We are all in a position right now saying what could we have done?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Will Kohnen remembering back to 2018 when he says he penned a letter first obtained by "The New York Times" to OceanGate CEO, Stockton Rush warning that what he called the company's experimental approach could have serious consequences.

KOHNEN: This is an extremely difficult situation to be in.

COHEN: Kohnen who heads the submarine committee of the Marine Technology Society was concerned that OceanGate wasn't following the same safety standards as other vessels because the Titan hadn't gone through independent testing and wasn't certified by an industry group, which he says isn't required to dive in international waters, but is an industry standard.

KOHNEN: There are 10 submarines in the world that can go 12,000 feet and deeper. Out of those 10, all of them are certified except the OceanGate submersible.

COHEN: You believe this expedition would be too dangerous without being certified?

KOHNEN: Yes.

COHEN: He says he spoke to Stockton Rush and voiced those concerns.

KOHNEN: We agreed to disagree, and many of us do feel that it may have been preventable if the vehicle had been certified.

COHEN: In a 2019 blog post, OceanGate defended the company's decision saying certifying Titan could take years and stifle innovation and while they've used those standards as a benchmark in the past, quote, by itself classing is not sufficient to ensure safety.

RUSH: Acrylic Plexiglas.

COHEN: Rush, who is one of the missing crew has touted his Maverick approach to innovation.

RUSH: You know, I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me and the carbon fiber and titanium. There's a rule you don't do that, well, I did. It's picking the rules that you break that are the ones that will add value to others and add value to society.

COHEN: But that approach drew criticism from some of his own staff.

CNN has learned two former OceanGate employees, neither of whom are engineers, raised safety concerns when Titan was built.

In a counter lawsuit, one claimed OceanGate hadn't performed adequate testing on the Titan's hull to check its structure and the other told CNN he was concerned when that carbon fiber hull arrived and was only five inches thick rather than seven inches as he says the company had assured. Both said their concerns were dismissed by Rush and OceanGate management.

And the company faced lawsuits in recent years seeking to recoup payments from those who had hoped to go on Titanic excursions after several equipment or weather issues caused the trips to be delayed.

As the frantic search intensifies, Kohnen says there is one component he wishes were on the vessel, a working beacon. KOHNEN: It would be making a huge difference if it had a beacon so that someone could direct themselves in that direction.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN (on camera): And, CNN has reached out to OceanGate about these various claims. So far, the company has declined to comment.

Gabe Cohen, CNN, Washington.

ROMANS: All right. Gabe, thank you. Today, the White House welcomes Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi for a state visit, complete with marching troops, Oval Office meeting and a state dinner tonight. The pompous ceremony is consistent with the president's belief that India is crucial to U.S. strategy in Asia, a democratic partner especially helping contain China.

But it also represents a trade-off given the U.S. concerns that Modi is sliding towards authoritarianism.

CNN's Vedika Sud is live in Delhi for us.

But, get that trade-off is embodied in the lengthy negotiations, just to get Modi to agree to a joint news conference for President Biden. He doesn't do news conferences in India.

VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Yes, that's definitely one of the trade- offs. You're right. They're because back in India, we've barely seen India's prime minister invite the media, talk to them and take questions from them ever since he was prime minister, elected prime minister in 2014. And the last nine years, it's been very rare. But that is going to be the exception to the norm, isn't it?

When we're going to see him with the U.S. president after the joint statements, and what we have been told is that yes, he will be taking one question. And, this is after lengthy negotiations between the two sides according to two U.S. officials who will privy to this issue.

So, yes, today is going to be one of those rare days, Christine, where the Indian journalists back in New Delhi will be watching closely because we don't get to speak to the Indian prime minister and press conferences very often. But, along with that, I think that just taking a step back, let's just talk about what this meeting means both for India as well as the U.S.

I think the U.S. president, Joe Biden, knows that they're trade-offs, really because back, home and overseas, there has been more criticism on Narendra Modi's government, the alleged human rights violations, the sliding democracy, backsliding a democracy, be it also a lot of controversial laws that have impacted more than 200 Muslims here in India.

There's been heavy criticism even on shrinking press freedom in India. So, Joe Biden is aware of that. But he's also, along with, that aware of how important India is as a counterbalance to China in Asia. And, that's a very, very important strategic partner for Biden, for the White House and for the U.S. administration. We are going to see a lot happening, they'll be a lot of photo-ops and yes I think one of the biggest takeaways, here, would be that Narendra Modi will be taking questions from the media today.

Back to you.

ROMANS: Interesting.

All right. Vedika Sud, thank you so much for that. We will be watching all of those events today.

All right. Special counsel John Durham defending himself on Capitol Hill Wednesday. Democrats on the House Judiciary committee accused Durham of running a politically motivated probe of the FBI investigation into the 2016 Trump campaign and its connections to Russia.

[05:10:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): Mr. Durham constructed a flimsy story built on shaking influences and dog whistles to far-right conspiracy theories. Mr. Durham's investigation operated as headline generator for MAGA Republicans.

JOHN DURHAM, SPECIAL COUNSEL: My colleagues and I carry out our work in good faith and with integrity and within this period of following the facts wherever they lead without fear or favor. At no time and in no sense that we act with the purpose to further parties and political ends, to the extent that somebody suggest otherwise. That's simply untrue and offensive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Durham's $30 million investigation fell far short of right- wing hopes. Former President Trump claimed Durham would indict FBI and DOJ officials for treason, and the crime of the century as the former president put it. But after four years, Durham's secured just one guilty plea from a low level FBI lawyer, two jury trials of a Clinton campaign lawyer and a Trump Russia dossier source ended in swift acquittals.

All right. At least three people are dead after a tornado struck the small northwest Texas town of Matador. Among them, an elderly woman. The Matador tornado was one of at least 11 reported across four central U.S. states, really terrifying day and night there.

Let's bring in meteorologist, Derek Van Dam, in the CNN weather center.

What does the severe weather threat look like for today, Derek?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah. Well, now, we start to look towards the plains for the severe weather threat today, particularly across eastern Colorado, and we'll get to that in just a moment. But just looking at this, this is some of the video that was taken

moments after the tornado. You could see people inspecting this destroyed home whether or not they're looking for a person or perhaps a pet. Still unclear but literally this video taking just moments after the tornado struck this town in the Texas panhandle. You could see people searching through the rubble, terrifying moments homes flattened and you could see the snap, trees completely turned over, RVs flipped on its side like they were toys, I mean, just incredible power within the tornado.

And it seems like we've been going day, after day, after day talking about some of the latest tornadoes that happened to hit these populated centers. Remember, it only takes one to reach an area where humans live and we got that path of destruction, 11 tornadoes as Christine just mentioned, but, also the 47 reports of wind damage.

And this is significant because in Houston, if this 97-mile-per-hour wind gusts, at Houston airport, actually confirms this would be a record wind gust for that particular location and to put that into contest this wind hasn't happened since Hurricane Ike back in 2008. And this was not associated with the hurricane. It was associated with a thunderstorm. That would be equivalent to a category two hurricane for instance.

There's a thunderstorm watch in place across the eastern sections of Colorado. We have 5 million Americans under severe weather threat today, including Denver. So, heads up eastern Colorado, today -- Christine.

ROMANS: All right. Heads up Eastern Colorado, thanks, Derek, nice to see you.

Just ahead, new revelations in the Idaho college murder case, and what DNA evidence of the scene points to.

Plus, a dual threat to tornadoes on the same horizon. But, first, deep sea rescues, the challenges of saving the Titanic subgroup, if they could find the craft in time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:17:33]

ROMANS: The first and most urgent task at hand this to find the missing Titan submersible. But how to actually get to it when found is another question. While the rescue would be challenging, it's not unheard of.

CNN's Tom Foreman has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Racing time, the elements, and an ocean of unknowns, those trying to find the Titan face dwindling odds of success. Underwater rescues are inherently complicated, dangerous, and the deep state makes it all harder. Author Stephen McGinty knows.

STEPHEN MCGINTY, AUTHOR, THE DIVE: It is hard to even imagine. Two miles of water above you, the immense darkness, no natural light, and the weight of that -- crushing weight. So, you are operating in pitch darkness at a depth that many things will fail.

FOREMAN: His book, "The Dive", is about the deepest ocean rescue tonight.

In the early 1970s, the Pisces 3 sank nearly 1,600 feet below the surface while laying an undersea phone cable off the coast of Ireland. For three days, ships, submarines, and robotic vessels struggled to get lines attached and haul up the reversible with its two experienced sailors.

Finally, success.

REPORTER: -- when you began to one that you would ever get out?

ROGER MALLINSON, RESCUED SUBMARINER: Not at all. We had about a day's supply left of life support. We knew what was going on. We could talk to the surface all the time. So, there was no trouble at all.

FOREMAN: Not exactly. Like the Titan, the Pisces had limited air, just enough for 72 hours. The two men extended by lying still and not talking. When they finally emerged after 84 hours, they had enough for only 12 minutes more.

So, how different is the Titan's predicament? The Pisces was located quickly, 120 miles offshore. The Titan is still missing more than 400 miles from land. The Pisces had a steady communications. No one had spoken with the Titan since it vanished. The Titan is in much deeper water. And yet, even when the Pisces was pulled up, the men inside were terribly battered.

MCGINTY: They thought they were going to be smashed unconscious inside the sub. The sub was just rattling and rolling and spinning. At one point, they beg for the lift to stop.

FOREMAN: There have been other undersea rescue attempts. In 1939, when the USS Squalus sank off the East Coast in less than 254 of war, 26 men drowned, 33 were saved.

[05:20:06]

In 2000, when the Russians sub Kursk suffered a pair of onboard explosions in the Bering Sea, despite really hopes for survivors, the entire crew of 118 perished.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): But there are so few of these examples, and they are so widely different each time an incident like this comes along, rescuers must simultaneously look at the history and re-write the book. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

ROMANS: All right. As Tom reported, they look to history for a guide, you know, history is unfolding right in front of our eyes.

Let's bring in David Scott-Beddard, CEO of White Star Memories and chairman of the British Titanic Society.

So nice to see this morning. Thank you for coming by here.

You know, the entire world, David, is fixated on what's happening in the Atlantic Ocean right now. Even with all the known risk to travel to the ocean floor, to see the Titanic, it is still this object of fascination. Tell me, why do you think the Titanic is still such a draw that people would take such big risk to try to see it?

DAVID SCOTT-BEDDARD, CHAIRMAN, BRITISH TITANIC SOCIETY: Well, adventurers will always take risks, Christine, whether it's climbing Mount Everest or sailing solo around the world. And Titanic is one of those unreachable, on obtainable things for most of us -- unless you've been working in research, and our lucky to dive the wreck in the past. Or, now, of course have these adventures have paid a great deal of money to go down.

They do play an important role when they're down there. The specialist, they do take part in some of the research while they're there. Why has Titanic such a draw? Well, of course, she sits majestically on the seabed, incredibly rare for a ship that sunk to be sitting upright.

And she still looks very much like a ship, and I think maybe if she was lying crushed on her side the desire to go and see her certainly wouldn't be as great.

ROMANS: You mention that in all five of these men, knew the risk, the risk of very well-known, a pressure on the hull, you know, the experimental nature of the craft, potential of the tangle meant when you get close to the Titanic. It's just so distressing now that air is running out in this -- in this submersible.

What do you think about the future of such missions? Do you think this puts that in jeopardy?

SCOTT-BEDDARD: Without a shadow of doubt, I think that the chances of any future research being carried out on the record Titanic is extremely slim, probably not in my lifetime. I remember that there will be an inquiry, no doubt after this disaster and what's more stringent rules and regulations would be put in place.

ROMANS: What do you make of the response? I mean, there are numerous countries coast guards, private ships all steaming to the area, aircraft looking for any sign of the Titan floating at the top of the ocean, and it's a remarkable response so far.

SCOTT-BEDDARD: It is an incredible response and of course the most frustrating thing is it took 73 years to find the wreck of Titanic, even the bow section at 40 feet in size. And this submersible was only 5 percent the size of that. And the chances of finding, her in an area literally the size of the state of Connecticut which is about ten times the size of London here in the U.K. are slim at best.

ROMANS: Yes, that's an interesting way to look at it, how the size of the Titan, compared with the size of the Titanic and how long it took to find the Titanic.

David Scott-Beddard of the British Titanic Society, thank you so much.

SCOTT-BEDDARD: You're welcome.

ROMANS: All right. Quick hits across America now.

New court documents reveal that DNA from Brian Kohberger matches evidence found in the crime scene. He's the suspect of the death of four Idaho university students stabbed in their home last fall.

Commercial operation of a new reactor in a Georgia nuclear power plant begins next month after years of delays and billions of dollars in cost overruns. It's the first new reactor to restrictive approval from the U.S. in three decades.

The double tornado spotted in northeastern Colorado after a huge storm on Wednesday between Akron and Anton. Witnesses say both tornado sat over the area for about an hour. Wow.

All right. Coming up a Wall Street Journal reporter back in a Moscow courtroom this morning and a firsthand look at Ukraine's slow counteroffensive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're fighting these rounds of Russian lines which are four kilometers, or two miles away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:29:21]

ROMANS: Happening right, no Wall Street Journal Gershkovich is in a Wall Street courtroom for a hearing, and he is appealing the recent ruling that keeps him behind bars in Russia until his trial begins in August.

Gershkovich was arrested in March on espionage charges. The State Department has called the process a sham.

CNN's Nic Robertson joins us live from London.

I know so many of his friend in "The Wall Street Journal" newsroom are looking at those pictures trying to, you know, see how he's doing, how he's holding up. His trial is set for August 30th. So what happens today, Nic? NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, there he is

in a T-shirt and jeans standing in that glass box in the courtroom. I know the photographers are in there before the court got into session. It appears that there are no longer journalists within the courtroom able to watch what happens. We know the U.S. Ambassador Lynne Tracey is in there.

[05:30:00]