Return to Transcripts main page

Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Sub Sustained "Catastrophic Implosion", 5 Aboard Died; Whistleblowers: IRS Recommended More Charges, Including Felonies Against Hunter Biden; India's Prime Minister Modi Toasts U.S. Alliance; Ukraine Pushes Back on Western Counteroffensive Doubts. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired June 23, 2023 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:00:04]

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good Friday morning. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Christine Romans.

The search for the lost Titan submersible is over this morning after authorities announce the sub sustained a catastrophic implosion near the site of the Titanic, 13,000 feet deep in the North Atlantic. All five people aboard killed instantly.

A Navy official says the pressure haul was found in two pieces in a field of debris. They will likely now be multiple investigations for what happened and how to prevent it from happening again.

CNN's Paula Newton joins us live from Halifax, Nova Scotia.

And, Paula, what will investigators focus on now?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are going to focus on whether or not this was a catastrophic event that entailed just one thing going wrong or if it was multiple things given the strain on that vehicle. Remember, Christine, there were quite a few successful expeditions to the Titanic wreck. There was some kind of stress put on the Titan at that point, because it was largely unregulated, wasn't tested going through the motions.

You know, Christine, you've had so many people weigh in on this and one of them is James Cameron who he himself has been to the wreck of the Titanic and other deep sea explorations, dozens of times. I want you to listen to him now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CAMERON, DIRECTOR, "TITANIC": I think there is a great, almost surreal irony here, which is a Titanic sank because the captain took it full steam into an ice field at night, on a moonless night with a -- very poor visibility after he had been repeatedly warned by telegram, by Marconigram, by radio, during the day that that's what was ahead of him. And so, I think we're also seeing a parallel here with unheeded warnings about a sub that was not certified, where the entire deep submergence community actually -- well, not the entire community, but a large number of them got together to write a letter to OceanGate, the company, and say, we believe that this could lead to catastrophe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: You know, things like that later, Christine, is something that will be reviewed by investigators. But, at this hour right now, they still have the remote operated vehicles there. Almost two and a half miles down to the sea bottom, trying to see what can be recovered. But I will say, Christine, an absolutely sobering morning here on Canada's east coast.

This was a robust international effort and perhaps a measure of peace for the families that now they know what happened, and also, that all our CNN experts say, that they likely did not know what was going to happen here and luckily did not suffer.

ROMANS: Catastrophic, and instant.

All right. Thank you so much, Paula.

The five people whose voyage to see the wreck of the Titanic ended in another tragedy, included two ultra wealthy businessmen, the son of one of them, and a Titanic expert. Piloting the sub, the CEO of the company that owned it, OceanGate, whose decisions are now under scrutiny.

CNN's Brian Todd has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Stockton Rush once said he wanted to be remembered as an innovator. Two years ago, he explained to Mexican travel blogger Alan Estrada his mindset while constructing the Titan submersible.

STOCKTON RUSH, CEO, OCEANGATE: I think it was General MacArthur who said you're remembered for the rules you break. And I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me.

TODD: Rush's penchant for breaking rules often brought controversy. Submersible industry leaders as well as some former employees of OceanGate claimed he was dismissive of regulations and safety standards.

Rush once countered his critics by saying, quote, we risk capital, we don't risk people. And he always seemed to have an eye on the future.

RUSH: The future of mankind is under water. It's not on Mars. We're not going to have a base on mars or the moon. You know, we'll try and waste a lot of money. We will have a base underwater.

TODD: Seventy-seven-year-old French explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet had earned the nickname Mr. Titanic because of his 30-plus dives down to the sunken ocean liner. Fellow explorer Bill Blaesing met Nargeolet in 2010 when they traveled in a ship together over the Titanic.

BILL BLAESING, FORMER PRESIDENT, BLUE HOLE EXPEDITIONS: He's absolutely passionate about it. And the great thing is he's humble and kind. He's not arrogant like some of the folks in this business. He's a true gentleman explorer.

TODD: This wasn't the first adventure for British billionaire Hamish Harding either.

HAMISH HARDING, ADVENTURER: I've always wanted to do this and the sheer experience of looking out at the window is something I'm looking forward to.

TODD: Last year, Harding went to space with Jeff Bezos on the Blue Origin flight and was known for exploring every corner of the Earth.

JANNICKE MIKKELSEN, EXPLORER, FRIEND OF HAMISH HARDING: Hamish is larger than life. He lives exploration. He's an explorer to the core of his soul. He has been to the bottom of planet Earth in the Mariana Trench, to Challenger Deep, he's even been in space. We circumnavigated the planet together of the North and South Pole and set the world speed record.

TODD: Shahzada Dawood came from one of Pakistan's most wealthiest families.

[05:05:02]

His teenage son, Suleman, was onboard Titan with him. Shahzada Dawood's friend, Bill Diamond, describes him as intelligent, perpetually curious and believes his friend was aware of the risks he was taking.

BILL DIAMOND, FRIEND OF SHAHZADA DAWOOD: He's not what I would consider one of these sports adventurists. He doesn't go on death defying missions or ride motorcycles over cliffs or any these sort of things, parachuting, scuba diving, to the best of my knowledge. So, I never thought of him as a daredevil in any sense.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): Stockton Rush was connected to the Titanic, could well have been about more than pushing the bounds of exploration. "The New York Times" reports that Rush's wife, Wendy, is a great, great granddaughter of two first class passengers who are aboard Titanic on its faithful voyage.

Retailing magnate Isidor Strauss and his wife Ida who "The Times" says died when the Titanic sank.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

ROMANS: OK, a pair of IRS whistleblowers claim Hunter Biden is getting off easy in that plea deal that includes just two tax misdemeanors. They say internal revenue investigators recommended far more serious felony charges. CNN's Evan Perez has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Two whistleblowers told Congress that IRS investigators recommended charging Hunter Biden with attempted tax evasion and other felonies, much more serious crimes than the misdemeanors he has agreed to play guilty to in federal court next week. The details come from transcripts of interviews that the agents provided to lawmakers in recent weeks.

The agents also provided documents that appear to show at least some prosecutors agreed with the recommendation for charges on 11 counts, though more senior officials disagree.

In a deal with the U.S. Attorney David Weiss, a Donald Trump appointee, Hunter Biden is pleading guilty to just two tax misdemeanors.

Gary Shapley, a veteran IRS supervisor, who oversaw parts of the investigation, says that he saw political interference in the investigation. He told lawmakers, I am alleging was evidence that the DOJ provided preferential treatment, slow walked the investigation, did nothing to avoid obvious conflicts of interest in this investigation.

The Justice Department and Weiss said that Weiss had ultimate power to decide on the charges. The Justice Department disputes allegations of political interference.

As an example of that interference with the investigation, Shapley also told House lawmakers that investigators were not allowed to more thoroughly investigate WhatsApp messages allegedly from Hunter Biden where he was using his father as leverage to pressure a Chinese company into paying him. One such message reads: I am sitting here with my father and we would like to understand why the commitment may have not been fulfilled.

The agents say that they do not know whether Joe Biden was actually with his son when the message was sent. President Biden has repeatedly said he never discussed business dealings with Hunter Biden.

Evan Perez, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: Last night, President Biden and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi saluting the alliance between the two countries at a lavish state dinner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A toast to our partnership, to our people, to the possibilities that lie ahead, to two great friends, two great nations, and two great powers. Cheers.

NARENDRA MODI, INDIAN PRIME MINISTER: To the everlasting bonds of friendship between India and the United States. Cheers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: The toast followed a day filled with the usual pomp and ceremony of the state visit and the extremely unusual sight of Modi taking a question from the media at an exhaustively negotiated news conference. Responding to a translator about his crackdowns on dissent and treatment of religious minorities, Modi said there is no space for discrimination and if there are no human rights then it's not a democracy.

All right. Kyiv is pushing back against comments by Western officials to CNN that Ukraine's counteroffensive is not meeting early expectations on any front.

One senior Ukrainian official telling CNN that it is way too early to assess the counteroffensive which has, quote, not even begun in earnest.

International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is live in London.

And, Nic, Kyiv has understandably been hesitant to give details about the counteroffensive. What are they saying now and why?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, even President Zelenskyy a couple of days ago said that it is not going, perhaps, as fast as expected, but here is a reality check on this. Both of Zelenskyy and his prime minister are saying that this is not a Hollywood movie. I think that what you have is this expectation in the West, to a degree from those who supported Ukraine, Jen Stoltenberg a month or so ago talking about all of the more than thousand-plus armored vehicles, tanks that have been sent to support Ukraine in the fight.

Yet at the same time when I was on the ground there, commanders in the battlefield, soldiers in the battlefield, officials, diplomats back in the capital of Kyiv or all telling me the same thing, do they realize -- do our friends and allies realize how hard of a fight this is?

[05:10:16]

And I think that's the perception point that we are at right now. There is a perception that it could go more quickly. There was a possibility of a quick breakthrough, and quick gains. You know, Kyiv -- Ukraine did that in Kherson last year, they did it in Kharkiv in the north of the country last year.

So, there was this perception on the one side, but the reality on the ground was something completely different. I got a taste of that yesterday, talking to one of the delegates at the Ukraine recovery conference in London. He said to me this is amazing, with all of these Western officials, this is the -- with all these Western officials putting themselves on the back for the money they are coming up with to support Ukraine's recovery, but we are on my way back to Ukraine tonight and reality is that we have not even got to the big stage of the counteroffensive yet. There is this difference of opinion, difference of perception and I

think that is what we are seeing at the moment. Ukrainian officials trying to push that saying that we have not begun the push, there's plenty more left. Putin even alluded to this just two days ago, saying, I don't think, this is Putin's words, I don't think Ukraine has used all its counteroffensive potential yet.

So, there is a reality difference, and I think that is the point we are at. Everybody would love to go quicker, particular the Ukrainians. It's not and that's where we're at. It's a war and it's just really, really slow and tough, and when you are on the front lines, you see that.

ROMANS: Yeah. All right. Nic Robertson, nice to see, thanks, Nic.

Straight ahead, the chaotic aftermath of a tornado that touched down near Denver. Plus, self-proclaimed misogynists influencer and provocateur Andrew Tate back in court just a short time ago.

And what caused the ground to give way leaving a sinkhole in a Florida neighborhood?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:15:59]

ROMANS: On Thursday, fears about the fate of a missing submersible or confirmed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADM. JOHN MAUGER, FIRST COAST GUARD DISTRICT COMMANDER: An ROV or remote are paraded vehicle discovered the tail cone of the Titan submersible, approximately 1,600 feet from the bow of the Titanic on the sea floor. The ROV subsequently found additional debris. In consultation with experts from within the unified command, the debris is consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Let's bring in Barry Lipsky, a public safety diving instructor at Team Lifeguard Systems and president of the Long Island Divers Association.

So, nice to see this morning.

You know, from what you heard in that Coast Guard press conference, what do you think went wrong with the Titan?

BARRY LIPSKY, PUBLIC SAFETY DIVING INSTRUCTOR, TEAM LIFEGUARD SYSTEMS, INC.: Good morning from Long Island, New York.

The United States Coast Guard indicated that we had a catastrophic implosion of the submarine, which basically means that the submarine itself folded, and collapsed in. That is due to the tremendous pressure that the submarine was reacting to at very low depths like that.

The air that we are in right now has pressure and the water has pressure, but down there at that depths, the pressure on the outside of the submarine was about 400 times as it was on the inside. So, even the slightest crack in the submarine, even if it is an eighth of an inch in size, will cause that submarine to just zipper open instantly and cause a catastrophic collapse of the submarine and pretty much vaporize anything and everything that is inside the submarine.

ROMANS: Yeah. I mean, the pressure is just devastating at that -- at that depth.

The U.S. Navy, you know, apparently detected sounds consistent with an implosion on Sunday, the day -- around the day and time and place this was reported missing. It is likely that whatever went wrong happened very quickly without warning?

LIPSKY: I would describe it as nanoseconds, extremely fast, probably about 1,500 miles per hour while statistically, yes.

ROMANS: Wow, I mean, there have been all those days of worrying about them potentially waiting inside that Titan sub, but it happened so quickly that they would've had no warning whatsoever. They would not have known what was happening to them.

LIPSKY: According to experts, they would've had no warning whatsoever, no.

ROMANS: You use the word vaporize. When asked about recovering the bodies, the Coast Guard said it is incredibly unforgiving environment and that he does not have any answers for prospects at this time.

Talk to me about any sort of recovery here. At this point, they would be picking up pieces of the metal and the hull to bring back potentially to analyze, but there will not be much more beyond that.

LIPSKY: Yeah, as a first responder, a diver, that is what we do. We go into the waters where nobody else really wants to be and we always try to do the best that we can because we are at that point working for the families and, if there is something that we can bring back, then we certainly will.

Having families standing next to me too many times and them looking at us saying you are the only one who can do anything about this, we try the best we could. But in this case, there may not be anything to bring back, unfortunately, very unfortunately.

ROMANS: I want you to listen to CNN Anderson Cooper spoke with James Cameron last night. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMERON: But here is a case, starkly today, where the collective that we did not remember the lesson of Titanic. These guys at OceanGate didn't because the arrogance and hubris that sent that ship to its doom is exactly the same thing that sent those people in that sub to their fate.

[05:20:10]

And I just think it's heartbreaking. I think it's heartbreaking that it was so preventable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: The paralleled tragedy of going to see a tragedy and then being the victim of another tragedy, it is just awful. What has the reaction been like in the diving community?

LIPSKY: Well, just like when they started with airplanes, they started with airplanes that crashed a lot until they got to the point where they are today where we have supersonic jets and all of that, but we still have problems. The diving community is really not going to react too much to a submarine, we are scuba divers, recreationally or public safety divers, and we use certain precautions based on the experience and knowledge of others that have been there before us.

You've got to use a lot of common sense, but at the same time there is a sense of adventure that many of us are going to follow and take another step forward that may not work out so well. But hopefully, like anything else, we all learn from this. We benefit from this, and those that come before us can take it to a different level.

ROMANS: You are right, the human drive for exploration is something that over the centuries has been a real mark of exploration and discovery, new discoveries.

LIPSKY: Yes, that is how we succeed and go forward. That is how human life goes on and becomes more and more successful.

ROMANS: All right. Barry Lipsky, Team Lifeguard Systems, nice to see you. Thank you for all the work you do and thanks for your time this morning.

LIPSKY: You are very welcome.

ROMANS: All right. Residents of Central Colorado cleaning up this morning after an EF1 tornado touched down Thursday just south of Denver, bringing powerful winds, torrential rains, and flooding. And hail so large it actually injured people as it fell, all of that doing plenty of damage in the area.

Let's get to meteorologist Allison Chinchar in the weather center.

It's not over yet, right? Tell us where the next system is expected.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Right. And a lot of the same areas, Christine, that we saw in the past few days, the central U.S. is really going to be the focal point for today in terms of severe weather. You've still got rain across areas of the southeast from the stalled front, but is the central portion of the country, that is where the activity is not only going to be today, but has really been the 48 hours. Again, take a look at all of these reports just in the last 48 hours.

About a dozen tornado reports, over 100 wind and hail reports each. Many of those same areas that have been hit are going to go through it all over again today. The main threats here, we are talking very large hail, it could be larger than golf balls, maybe even up around the size of tennis balls and baseballs. You still got lots of damaging wind gusts to be the focus, and a few isolated tornadoes.

Two different target points here. You got areas of eastern Wyoming, west South Dakota and Nebraska, and this other area down south along the Texas and Oklahoma panhandle. That's where the focal point will be.

Now, some of the areas in the northern tier are going to start to see some of those showers begin to develop around midday today. Farther south, it is really going to be closer to 3:00 to 5:00 p.m. before things start getting going. But they will continue into the evening and into the overnight hours before finally shifting farther to the east as we head into the weekend.

Another big story though is the heat, especially down south across areas of Texas, New Mexico, and portions of Oklahoma. Because of this we do have all of the heat alerts in effect. Excessive heat watches and warnings for all three of these states here, indicating not just the fact that those temperatures will be high, but we have to factor in the humidity. So, that combined condition, what we referred to as the heat index, is going to be extremely high.

But look at some of the temperatures, 94 today in Dallas, back into the triple digits by this weekend. For a lot of these areas, even though today is expected to be hot, over the next several days it is expected to get even warmer.

So, taking a look at Houston, San Antonio, Corpus Christi, those numbers are going to continue to go up. Not just this weekend but even into next week, to, Christine. You are going to continue to see a lot of those numbers go up. Austin going from 99 today back to about 106 by the middle portion of the upcoming week.

ROMANS: Wow. All right. Stay safe everybody. Thank you.

Quick hits across America now:

A judge has temporarily blocked a ban on medication abortions in Wyoming, which would've been the first in the U.S. For now, abortion pills will remain legal in that state.

Residents of central Florida home forced to evacuate after a 30-foot wide sinkhole opened up. Officials say that heavy flooding in Marion County led to the ground depression.

Singer Kesha and former producer Dr. Luke resolve a years-long legal dispute, it stems from 2014 lawsuit she filed seeking to enter contract, alleging he drugged and sexually assaulted her.

[05:25:02] Coming up, the Vatican steps up to solve -- help solve a 40-year-old mystery of a missing teen, and hours from now, traffic will be back on a major Philadelphia highway.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Millions of people in Sierra Leone head to the polls on Saturday to select a new president in general elections. This comes amidst an economic crisis there with rampant inflation and rising unemployment and the currency plummeting in value.

CNN's Stephanie Busari joins us live from Lagos, Nigeria.

Stephanie, what's at stake for the people there?

STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN AFRICA SENIOR EDITOR: Christine, very high stakes election, very crucial ones on Saturday for the people of Sierra Leone.