Return to Transcripts main page

Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

U.S. Officials: Russian General Knew About Rebellion Plans; Delta Plane Lands with Nose Gear Up; Coast Guard: "Presumed" Human Remains Found in Wreckage; President Touts Economic Plans in Reelection Pitch; Trump Insists He Did "Nothing Wrong" in Response to Audio Obtained by CNN in Classified Documents Case. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired June 29, 2023 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Right now on EARLY START, the Coast Guard recovering what they say are presumed human remains from the Titan submersible.

[05:00:05]

Soon, Russian President Vladimir Putin will speak. What he could say as we learn a Russian general may have known about Wagner's rebellion plans ahead of time.

And perfection in New York. We'll show you the moment a Yankees pitcher made history on the diamond.

(MUSIC)

ROMANS: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Christine Romans.

The U.S. officials say a former top Russian commander in Ukraine had advanced knowledge of Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin's plans to revolt.

General Sergei Surovikin is suspected of helping plan the events of last weekend. Officials say there are also signs other Russian generals may have supported the rebellion, which raises questions about Putin's support inside of the top ranks.

Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin is attempting to portray himself as retaining popular support. You can see him there, greeting crowds in a rare public appearance on Wednesday. He flew to the majority Muslim city of Derbent to mark the Islamic holiday of Eid, where he took a tour, kissed fans and post for selfies. Putin is also expected to deliver remarks in just about one hour.

CNN's Clare Sebastian, live in London with more for us.

You know, it's been a while since we have seen him out there, literally shaking hands. We are seeing quite a lot of Putin since the armed insurrection. That's on purpose.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is sort of a PR tour of him going to great lengths, Christine, to reassert his authorities. He made several public remarks, those events at the Kremlin commemorated the air force pilots who were killed in Prigozhin's armed rebellions, the Dagestan visit, now speaking at a tech and digital conference we understand.

But Dagestan visit was unusual. This is really an un-Putin behavior based what we see in the past couple of years there, actual, physical contact, a stark contrast about long table that he would usually sit at, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic. So they are perhaps, an element here of counter-programming to the support that we saw for Wagner in Rostov, cheering crowds on that street as the forces left that city, perhaps there is a concern that Prigozhin himself into a popular support among the Russian people, so the Kremlin is trying to get out in front of that.

As they try to make it look like nothing happened, they are also having to deal with these reports of complicity in the top ranks of the Russian military, with what Prigozhin did. The Kremlin calling the New York Times reporting, suggesting that Sergei Surovikin, a high ranking general, former operations in Ukraine, knew what Prigozhin was doing. They called it speculation, and gossip.

But there are suggestions from certain highly watched Russian military bloggers, that armed forces in Russia are now being heavily scrutinized for any signs of support for Prigozhin and things like that.

Having said, that unlike Putin who has perhaps been out more than usual, we have seen no signs of General Surovikin since he made a video appeal to Prigozhin in the early hours Saturday, stopping's advance on Moscow. We've seen no signs of General Gerasimov head of the armed forces, and we still do not have actual visual evidence of the whereabouts of Yevgeny Prigozhin, supporting the claim with Lukashenko head of Belarus that he is in that country -- Christine.

ROMANS: Interesting. All right. So many -- so many threads there, thank you, Clare.

Now to Bakhmut, Ukraine, CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is on the frontlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the woods outside the Russian occupied town of Bakhmut, the Ukrainian crew of a Soviet-era self-propelled gun prepares to open fire, cleaning the barrel, getting the grounds ready, and then the order to fire comes over the radio.

This counteroffensive is just over (INAUDIBLE) old. So far, the Ukrainians are only inching forward, taking a small village here and a slice of territory there.

Here, it's still a grinding war of attrition for the troops of the 57th motorized infantry brigade. Small advances followed by Russian counterattacks. But most of the time they hunker down under cover and wait. When we have targets, we fire fast and precise, says the gun commander

whose call sign is "Diesel". We hit infantry, tanks, vehicles, but, most of all, infantry.

They're targeting is helped by the brigade's drone operators. This drone video shows a successful strike on Russian troops on the edge of Bakhmut.

But these eyes in the sky can fall victim to friendly fire. That gun fire from nervous troops trying to shoot down their own drone.

[05:05:05]

Here, they heard about the brief mutiny led by Wagner boss, Yevgeny Prigozhin, and shrugged it off.

I said from the start, it's a lie, says this drone operator Zaporizets. It was theater.

Their more immediate concern, getting enough ammunition. Crates of freshly manufactured 152 millimeter rounds from Pakistan are strewn about near the gun.

The battery commander, call sign Shekano (ph) or Shaytan, says he'll believe there's a counteroffensive when he sees it.

Until we take a major town or get a tactical advantage, he tells me, there is no counteroffensive.

Here, believing is seeing. The only certainty, the war goes on.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, near Bakhmut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: All right. This morning, the July 4th travel rush kicks off. The TSA expects this holiday weekend to be even bigger than it was before the pandemic. That is expected to make the travel nightmare we have seen this week even scarier. More than 7,000 U.S. flights have been canceled since Saturday.

This morning, we are already seeing more than 300 cancellations, 430 delays. And on the ground, there was a scare at a North Carolina airport. A Delta flight landed with its nose landing gear up.

CNN's John Lawrence reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Delta flight 1092 left Atlanta Wednesday morning, and arrived in Charlotte, roughly 90 minutes later. But the landing was anything but normal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casual evacuation.

LAWRENCE: The 96 passengers on board heard the words, people do not want to hear while on a plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come this way, leave everything. Jump into the slides.

LAWRENCE: According to a statement from Delta, the plane's nose gear did not go down, forcing an emergency landing.

GARY GIBBS, PASSENGER: There was some smoke in the cabin, that was a bit concerning. The flight attendants did well. Pilot came on with his instructions, but we would be exiting. So we all exited safely.

LAWRENCE: No injuries were reported but some passengers were understandably shaken.

BYRON HARVEY, PASSENGER: Palms are sweating I've got my phone trying to text my wife to tell her I love her just a scary situation.

LAWRENCE: This is just another headache for the overall airline industry which has not been soaring well over the past few days.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TREASURY SECRETARY: Some pretty tough weather has affected a lot of flights I reached my hotel room at 2:30 in the morning last night after my flight was canceled, the next one was delayed. A lot of Americans are going through the same thing.

LAWRENCE: And AAA forecasts nearly 4.2 million people will be traveling by air for the July 4th holiday.

I'm John Lawrence reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: All right. Smoke spreading from the Canada wildfires causing the worst air quality over the Great Lakes and Ohio today. Washington and New York, you are expected to see an increase in that smoke, but nothing like the levels a few weeks ago.

Meanwhile, more than 85 million people are under heat alerts from California to Alabama and as far north as Illinois.

And in Texas, unprecedented heat over their has caused nine deaths in eight days.

CNN's Jennifer Gray has the forecast.

Jennifer, when can relief from the smoke and heat be expected?

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, I think relief for the smoke will come before we see relief from the heat, I think. But it will get worse before it gets better, across much of the Ohio Valley, the Midwest. You can see these red and purple dots indicating unhealthy and very unhealthy air quality. It is even spreading into places like D.C., New York has even taken a hit. Now it shows a moderate level with that smoke.

But we do have the poor air quality alerts, not only for the Midwest and the Ohio Valley, but now into the northeast. The I-95 corridor, D.C., Philly, New York, you are now under the poor air quality alerts as well.

Look at this, Chicago, Detroit, D.C., taking the top three spots for the worst air quality in the world for any major city. Now, this updates every ten minutes or so. But right now, we got the top three spots locked in. Of course, nothing to brag about their, the air quality is dangerous for people who are sensitive with respiratory issues, things like that.

Visibility under a mile in Cincinnati. Pittsburgh, right around a mile and a half. Here is the smoke forecast. You can see the shades of red and orange. They will start to dissipate over the coming days, lingers a bit across the mid-Atlantic and the Northeast.

But beyond today, I think things will get better as far as the smoke goes, as far as the heat, we are under the influence of this ridge of high pressure, this heat dome which is basically trapping the heat under it, and getting hotter and hotter, day-by-day.

So the heat is expanding. You can see for the first time in several weeks, not under a heat alert across south Texas, but it has expanded to the east under excessive heat watches and warnings all across Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas as well as Alabama.

We will see temperatures in the triple digits. These are the feels like temperatures for today, feeling like 110 or higher.

[05:10:05]

Actual high temperatures will be in the triple digits. For many places like Dallas, Oklahoma City, Little Rock.

You can see it is starting to fall by Saturday, we will be at 96. Still above normal, the temperatures are going to stay hot, but possibly staying a couple of degrees of relief, Christina. I know it is not cool, but at least we will get out of that dangerous heat criteria for portions of the south.

ROMANS: Yeah, just unbelievable.

Okay, Jennifer Gray, thank you.

GRAY: Thanks.

ROMANS: Crews have now recovered what appears to be human remains and large portions of the submersible Titan after scouring the ocean floor. Officials determined the vessel imploded, killing all five people on board.

The evidence is now at a Canadian pier.

CNN's Paula Newton has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. Coast Guard announced that it had found what is presumed to be human remains on the sea floor, that will be from the submersible, Titan. They recover these remains and they'll say that the United States medical professionals will conduct a formal analysis of those presumed human remains. And of course family and friends of those five passengers who died on the Titan. They will be comforted by this, but will also feel again profound grief. Given what the U.S. coast guard says was an implosion of the titan submersible.

What is also happening now is that on Wednesday, the horizon arctic retrieved debris, in fact large pieces of debris. They said that they had finished their work out there at the site of the Titanic wreck.

And what is extraordinary is that they did in fact recover large pieces of that debris. You can see that they have the dome with the view port, and a good chunk even of the passenger frame. Again, that issue here is the carbon fiber material that was used to hold those passengers, and was used in this kind of deep sea exploration.

U.S. Coast Guard says that now they will begin in to examine all of it. And they have many investigations underway, including here in Canada. That investigation expected to take well over a year.

Paula Newton, CNN, Ottawa.

(END VIDEOTAAPE)

ROMANS: All right. Still ahead here on EARLY START, he is calling Bidenomics. What is in the president's economic plan?

And another round of protests in France after a teen was shot by police.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:16:35]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Bidenomics is about the future. Bidenomics is just a little say of saying, restore the American dream, because it worked before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: The president touting his accomplishments on the economy, and more than 13 million jobs created in his tenure, and unveiling Bidenomics during this major economic speech in Chicago, Wednesday.

Bidenomics, another word for his economic philosophy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Bidenomics is about building an economy from the middle up and bottom up, not the top down. The three fundamental changes we decided would make help Congress able to do it, first, making smart investments in America. Second, educating and empowering Americans workers to grow the middle class. And third, promoting competition, to lower costs to help small businesses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: President Biden also vowed to continue pressing for tax increases on the wealthy, to pay for expanding childcare and education access for the middle class. This branded push comes as polling shows 66 percent of Americans disapprove of how the president has handled the economy.

New developments in special counsel Jack Smith's investigation into former President Donald Trump's role in trying to overturn the 2020 election. Trump's former lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger both meeting with federal prosecutors as part of the criminal probe.

CNN's Paula Reid has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Over the past several weeks, there has been an uptick in activity in the special counsel's investigation into January 6. In recent weeks, investigators sat down with Rudy Giuliani, who is representing former President Trump, and helping him file a lot of challenges to overturn the 2020 election.

Now, Giuliani had previously been subpoenaed back in November by the Justice Department, looking specifically for information about any payments that he received when he was filing those challenges. But then once Jack Smith took over the probe, Giuliani did not hear anything for over six months, according to sources. It's notable that he has sat down for what is described as a voluntary interview, but usually, when it takes investigators that long to reach out to you, it suggests that you could potentially be a target in a probe, and not just a witness.

At this point, it is unclear if Giuliani will be charged. Investigators on Wednesday also spoke with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. Now, Raffensperger is a key witness in an alleged campaign to try to pressure the state of Georgia to overturn their election results. He had a now infamous January 2021 call with the then President Trump, who was urging him to find additional votes to try to overturn the state's election results.

Now, Raffensperger certainly not expected to be a target, but absolutely a key witness as the state pressure campaign is just one of the many aspects around the January six that Jack Smith is investigating. So, it appears he is getting closer to possible charging decisions, potentially even, by the end of the summer.

Paula Reid, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ROMANS: All right, Paula. Thank you for that.

Let's bring in Joey Jackson, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney.

Good morning, friend.

All right, does the recent activity in the DOJ's 2020 election probe, to you, Joey, suggest a more complex investigation over there than the other cases involving Trump?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, good morning, Christine. It certainly does. I do not know more, but it certainly means they are on point, and looking into it. We certainly know one thing, which is that this special counsel is not shy to investigate and to charge.

So I think the development, by having Giuliani in there, who certainly knows what the strategies were, what really the core values of that team were, surrounding, what fact they used to overturn those elections, or the facts consistent with the reality, where they actually just fabricating information, I think that is significant. And then, of course, when you look at the Georgia secretary of state, in terms of his knowledge, with respect to the phone call, with regards to the pressure campaign, exacted by Trump upon him to find votes, it certainly means to me that the special counsel now is pivoting towards this investigation.

I think the sense of urgency, and of course we know the timeline, as we certainly have a robust primary coming about, that I think we will see some activity. We see the activity, but we may see some coordination is made pretty soon, Christine.

ROMANS: In another investigation into the president's behavior, there are these secret documents. CNN obtained 2021 audio of Trump discussing holding secret documents, waving them around after he had left the White House.

Now, Trump has had a few different things in his defense. He said it was just bravado, and then he said this a few days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: My voice was thought fine, what did I say wrong in those recordings? I did not even see the recording. All I know is I did nothing wrong.

We had a lot of papers, a lot of papers stacked up. In fact, you could hear the rustle of the paper and nobody said I did anything wrong, other than that fake news, which, of course, is Fox, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: OK, a lot there. Have you heard anything from the former president or his team that has sort of helped his defense?

JACKSON: Yes. I think certainly the problem is that there are these narratives which continue to shift, move, bob and weave. Now we have the rustling of the paper's defense. So is the ruffling of the papers, the secret document he was boasting about, in company which did not have security clearances? Or was the ruffling of the paper is an actual document that was secret, which should not have been shared, and otherwise would expose him to criminality?

So I think his narrative, he needs to have a narrative, he is running for president, so inquiring minds want to know, but I think at the end of the day, they were a lot of admissions he made, Christine, on that tape, with regard to this secret documents, knowing that he is president, have the ability to classify, knowing he did not declassify, that's where they were secret.

And so, today, certainly, it appears that the excuse is being used to not really past mustard, of course it will be for the jury to decide when the matter moves forward. We know Trump, he doesn't like to settle, he doesn't like to bargain, he is right, it's all fake news. So, we'll see what the jury has to say about him continuing to shift explanations.

ROMANS: Joey, meantime, Supreme Court is finishing up its summer work here, millions of student debt holders are on pins and needles about whether the President Biden's debt forgiveness plan will go through.

What does your gut tell you about what the Supreme Court does on student debt relief?

JACKSON: Yes, so there is a lot there. We know that student debt is really significant. Just behind mortgages as it relates to what people owe, right? As we look at all of the cases they are looking at affirmative action, student debt, discrimination protection, workplace religious accommodations.

I think certainly on the issue of student debt, if it goes to the merits of the case, and what mean by that? I mean, if the Supreme Court ultimately decides whether the Biden administration had the authority, whether Congress intended for them to have the authority, it could be problematic.

Before we get to the merits, Christine, there is so much about whether or not the party is suing Biden, or even having the ability to sue. If we know one thing about the Supreme Court, they don't get to the merits until they get to the issues of whether or not the party before the Supreme Court can actually be there.

So we will see what happens in that case, always a crapshoot of what the Supreme Court will be.

ROMANS: Yeah. All right, Joey Jackson, nice to see you. Thank you.

JACKSON: Always. Thanks, Christine.

ROMANS: All right. French authorities have arrested 150 people so far as anger and protests erupt across the country for a second consecutive night, after a teenager was shot and killed during a traffic stop in a Paris suburb earlier this week. French President Emmanuel Macron convened a meeting of the inter-

ministerial crisis unit over this incident.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz now joins us now. What's happening at this meeting, Salma?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, French President Emmanuel Macron stepped out of that meeting I think a couple of hours ago. Of course, his goal here would be to contain the situation, to try to urge calm.

His first comment was about the demonstrations last night. I know we are playing images of those very dramatic clashes which took place between police and protesters. French authorities say protesters set dozens of cars on fire, buildings on fire, including schools.

[05:25:03]

And at least 24 police officers were injured. The police response of course was a crackdown, using tear gas, at least 150 people were arrested, as you mentioned. And today, France is braced for yet another day of unrest.

The mother of that 17-year-old boy who was allegedly killed by police at that traffic stop, his mother has called for a rally for justice today. You have to take all of this week within the wider context, of course. French police, French authorities, President Emmanuel Macron, they are trying to treat this as an isolated incident.

And yes, French President Emmanuel Macron has said that the killing was unjustified. He has called for an investigation. The police officer who allegedly carried out the shooting is in custody and under questioning by prosecutors.

But Arab communities, Black communities in France have long accused French police of systemic racism, of undue force, excessive use of force when it comes to policing their communities and their neighborhoods.

Also, you need to know that it is Eid, who's commuters are getting together, talking about this incident. They are sharing that very viral social media video that shows the police officers holding the car at a traffic stop just before that shooting incident. And for those protesters on the street, they see this again as part of that wider context, rather of systemic racism of police brutality in their communities.

ROMANS: All right. Salma, keep us posted. Thank you so much.

Coming up, officials in Arizona are making progress in fighting a massive brush fire there. Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stands in his way. Grounded to third! He has it!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Oh my gosh. It gives me goose bumps. History was made in New York. The Bleacher Report, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:30:00]