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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin
Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger Dies At 100; Israel, Hamas Both Announce Last-Minute Truce Extension; Rep. Dan Kildee (D- MI) Says He Will Not Seek Reelection In 2024. Aired 5:30-6a ET
Aired November 30, 2023 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[05:30:53]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Secretary Kissinger really set the standard for everyone who followed in this job. Few people were better students of history. Even fewer people did more to shape history than Henry Kissinger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: A remarkable life.
Good morning. I'm Kasie Hunt.
That was Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who is in Israel this morning, talking about the man who had his job 50 years ago, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. A controversial giant in U.S. foreign policy, Kissinger died at the age of 100 at his Connecticut home last night. We're going to have more on this in just a moment.
Blinken's visit to the Middle East comes as the temporary truce in Gaza is extended for a seventh day and more hostages are set to be released. He met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and President Isaac Herzog in Tel Aviv earlier today.
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BLINKEN: We have been focused relentlessly on trying to secure the release of hostages. This process is producing results, it's important, and we hope that it can continue.
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HUNT: Blinken will sit down with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in just a few hours.
A senior adviser to Netanyahu has said a daily pause would only continue if Hamas freed 10 Israeli hostages each day. And this comes even as negotiations are continuing in Qatar.
Joining us now, former Israeli ambassador to the U.S. and the ambassador-in-residence to the Atlantic Council, Michael Oren. Ambassador, thank you very much for being here.
I actually want to start -- I understand you worked with Henry Kissinger. I'd like to start there with the passing of this just absolute giant -- a very controversial one but a giant nonetheless.
What are your -- what are your memories of him?
MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S., AMBASSADOR-IN- RESIDENCE TO THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL (via Webex by Cisco): Well, it's always -- first of all, it's good to be with you, and thank you for having me on.
You know, it's always an extraordinary experience to meet and work with somebody who you've read extensively and you've studied. I had studied Henry Kissinger. We read his M.A. thesis on Bismarck; his PhD thesis on Metternich.
We read his books. One of the greatest books of all time about the beliefs (PH) is a book called "Crisis," which is simply the transcripts of his discussions during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. And literally, you cannot put this book down -- and this was Henry Kissinger.
I got to meet Kissinger in a very interesting way -- firstly, as a historian. He was very concerned about his legacy and very concerned that the people of Israel -- the Jewish people would remember him fondly because he had played a sometimes controversial role in our history, particularly surrounding the Yom Kippur War of 1973. He prevented Israel from launching a preemptive strike that could have saved many Israeli lives. And then he also pressured Israel to give up territory in order, ultimately, to make peace with Egypt. And he should be remembered very fondly for that.
So he would call me and discuss his role and wanted to clarify that he had worked very assiduously and honestly for the people of Israel.
And then later, as ambassador, I got to work with him again and would consult with him frequently about the nature of the U.S.-Israel relationship.
I'll never forget our first meeting when I said to him, "Dr. Kissinger," -- and you always called him doctor, not professor -- "are you concerned that the United States makes a nuclear arrangement with Iran would America lose its hegemony in the Middle East." And I'll never forget what he said to me. He says, "What makes you think" -- I'll do the imitation. I can do a good Kissinger imitation. "What makes you think -- what makes you think that anybody in the White House cares about continued American hegemony in the Middle East?" What a line that was.
So I saw him frequently over the years and together, with other Israeli leaders, we would always meet with Kissinger.
HUNT: Yeah, that is just so remarkable. And I think it really also -- you know, I'm glad that you brought up his book and his role in those previous negotiations because we're also here talking about the news today about ongoing negotiations in the same region to try and extend a truce in a war between Hamas and Israel.
[05:35:00]
And it really does seem as though Kissinger -- and I'd be interested kind of in your thoughts and reflections. The model that he built in 1973 is one that is still in use today, albeit in a more modern way.
OREN: He invented the whole -- the whole system of shuttle diplomacy. He would go back and forth from Jerusalem to Cairo, from Cairo to Damascus. There was always that funny line. Every time he went to Cairo he would get kissed by Anwar Sadat, the president. Every time he would go to Damascus, he would get kissed by Hafiz al-Assad, the president of the -- the current dictator of Syria.
And one time he came back from these shuttles and met with Golda Meir and gave her a kiss. And she said to him, "Oh, Mr. Secretary, I didn't know you kissed girls, too."
HUNT: She's legendary.
OREN: Yeah.
HUNT: So let's talk a little bit about what's going to unfold in the next 24 to 48 hours. Because our Matthew Chance was reporting at the top of the show that there had been some back-and-forth because there were -- one of the lists that Hamas provided included people who were no -- were no -- were no longer living. And Israel has said no. Like, this deal is about making sure living people continue to come out of Gaza. That is how we are going to extend this truce.
It does seem to be fraying around the edges. What are you looking for in the next 24 to 48 hours to see how we may or may not see resumption of hostilities in the region?
OREN: Well, let me first say that on a very personal level, I'm delighted. I just now -- just before getting onto this program -- heard that the list includes a young woman named Mia Keren and -- Mia Shem -- Keren -- who is -- I've been in touch with her mother since the first day, October 8, and working very hard. She's a dual French- Israeli citizen. And her mother, Keren, was able to go and visit with the president of France and previous friends of France.
And apparently, this has paid off because she isn't -- she isn't elderly. She isn't a child. She's 22 years old. And I just heard from her mother that she's getting out. So on a personal level, I'm very, very relieved.
HUNT: That's wonderful.
OREN: But, yes, there is an end to this process and the process is this. Hamas can only release so many hostages. The hostages -- you know, Hamas is a get of Gaza for free card. They're the ultimate human shield. Because Hamas knows once it releases the last hostage then Israel can go and flood those hundreds of miles of tunnels. It can -- it can -- it can ignite them in some way and kill Hamas. It may be the ultimate -- the ultimate solution would be that Hamas
would give over the last of the hostages and Israel would let the hostages -- let Hamas get on boats and go somewhere. That's what we did with the PLO in 1982 in Beirut -- exactly that.
But barring that situation, there has to be, at some point, an end to these negotiations. Israel's position has been to get as many hostages, particularly women and children, out as possible. But keeping in mind that the ceasefire that Hamas wants means Hamas literally gets away with mass murder and Israel loses.
People forget we have 250,000 refugees of our own. People have been moved away from the borders and can't go back to their homes as long as Hamas poses this type of moral threat. And Hamas says that if -- that if it survives this it's going to propose that moral threat. It's exactly what Hamas says again and again.
So we will not be able to restore our internal security or certainly, our -- even regional deterrents because Iran will internalize that you can hit Israel with impunity. And when Israel goes --
HUNT: Right.
OREN: -- to defend itself, they'll slap a ceasefire on us and we won't be able to defend ourselves.
So Israel will have to continue the battle at some point. Every member of the Israeli government says this. The question is at what point?
HUNT: Right.
OREN: And I think -- I think we may be nearing that point.
HUNT: All right, former Ambassador Michael Oren. Thank you very much for your time this morning. I really appreciate it and I hope you come back.
OREN: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. The expulsion saga continues for embattled Congressman George Santos after a scathing ethics report revealed his alleged misuse of campaign funds. The New York lawmaker expected to stand for an expulsion vote tomorrow.
Even among his GOP colleagues, support for his removal seems to be growing. But there is this key question of the influence of House Speaker Mike Johnson who remains hesitant about expelling Santos.
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REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We're going to allow people to vote their conscience I think is the only appropriate thing we can do. I personally have real reservations about doing this. I'm concerned about a precedent that may be set for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: Santos has already dodged two expulsion votes this year, so for his critics this is the third time -- the charm.
Let's bring in Julia Manchester, national political reporter for The Hill. Julia, it's always lovely to have you here.
Let's talk a little bit -- I mean, it's a pretty basic question. What is Johnson's hesitation? There are a couple of possible reasons for it.
JULIA MANCHESTER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE HILL: Yeah. Good morning, Kasie.
I think one of the possible reasons is that the idea that this sets a precedent. Remember, George Santos would be the first member of Congress to be expelled who hasn't been convicted of a felony or a crime, or who didn't support -- who supported the confederacy. He's neither of those. So going forward, this very well could set a precedent.
[05:40:11]
And it's not only Republicans who have voiced that. You also heard a prominent progressive congressman, Jamie Raskin, earlier this month express reservations about that and vote against another motion to expel. Now going forward, though, it seems like Raskin and other Democrats and many other Republicans are on board.
But I thought it was interesting listening to Speaker Mike Johnson's comments. Because with him saying "I have reservations" or "members should vote their conscience," I read that as he's not necessarily willing to give political cover down the road to the members that do ultimately vote to expel. So we'll have to see how this plays politically.
HUNT: Yeah. I mean, look, I read -- I read the "vote your conscience" as a hey, I'm not going to tell you not to vote to expel him.
MANCHESTER: Yeah.
HUNT: Like, they're not whipping against it, which I think -- look, there's a lot of frustration among those Republicans holding Biden districts -- districts that Biden won --
MANCHESTER: Yeah.
HUNT: -- in 2020 around this.
I mean, we are going to hear from Santos himself -- we expect, I think, later today. He's got a press conference set for 8:00 this morning. It seems like he's definitely not going to resign. He's going to try to go down swinging.
What's his ultimate, kind of, end game here?
MANCHESTER: Yeah, and I'll point out that many of those districts you mentioned -- those Biden districts -- are in Santos' home state and border his own district, so worth pointing out.
Look, in terms of George Santos' end game -- look, I think he's been doing all of this because he can. I think he's been able to get away with this for so long. He's able to tell a story that some people believe for some time.
But going forward -- look, I think -- I think he doesn't necessarily -- he wants to stand his ground right now. He's not necessarily going to let himself resign at this point, but he wants to be seen maybe in a way as a martyr. Someone who is being kicked out --
HUNT: Yeah.
MANCHESTER: -- of the House. And he can point -- turn to his supporters and say look at the Republican establishment. Look what they did to me.
Earlier this week, I thought it was interesting that George Santos gave an interview and talked about how a number of members are heavy drinkers. Sort of implied that he had not-so-great information on his colleagues and that he could be willing to reveal that. So I don't think this is going to be the last we hear from him.
HUNT: Yeah. Well, and -- I mean, and trying to turn a media opportunity into a paycheck.
MANCHESTER: Right.
HUNT: Clearly, Santos is interested in having extra money if we've learned anything from this ethics report.
The Hill's Julia Manchester. Thank you very much for being with us this morning. I hope you'll come back soon.
MANCHESTER: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: And, of course, there has been no shortage of drama on Capitol Hill and leaders are quitting Congress at a record pace. What it means for the institution. I'm going to speak to one of the lawmakers who is leaving, Dan Kildee. He joins me live, next.
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[05:46:14]
HUNT: Welcome back.
Those of you who follow Congress know that the past term has been a chaotic one, to say the least. There's the routine infighting, but there's also the name-calling and alleged physical altercations. There has been the tumultuous speaker saga and more.
Now we're seeing the fallout from that chaos. Lawmakers are leaving Congress at a record clip. Some are retiring, some are seeking higher office, and some of them are just simply saying I've had enough. I'm done with it. Time to go. Let's bring in one of the lawmakers who has decided that he doesn't
want to stay in Congress, Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee of Michigan. He announced this month he'll not be seeking reelection. Congressman, thank you very much for joining us this morning.
REP. DAN KILDEE (D-MI): Thank you, Kasie.
HUNT: So I just have to ask you straight up -- I mean, what have these most recent months been like for you, and what role have they played in your decision to leave?
KILDEE: Well, it's certainly a part of my decision. It's been the toughest period that I've spent in Congress in the 11 years that I've been here.
But at the core, it's a personal choice. My close friends and family have known all along that it was never my intention to stay in Congress for the rest of my work life -- for my working career. My wife and I had this conversation. We said we'd do it for a decade and then take it a term at a time. By the time I leave, it will have been 12 years.
But it's impossible to erase the fact that this has been a chaotic period. And it's not just the last several weeks or months, but the last few years where the coarsening of political dialogue in this country has gone to a new low.
And while my personal choice is more about my long-term interest in doing something else for the remaining years of my work life -- you know, it makes a difference -- the tradeoff that we make being away from family to be here and to -- and to be a part of an institution that I've known for a long, long time.
And to see not just Congress but the -- sort of the institution of American political dialogue become so coarse and so angry, it's a part of the calculation for sure.
HUNT: Yeah. I mean, you told The New York Times, quote -- that this has been, quote, "The most unsatisfying period in my time in Congress because of the absolute chaos and the lack of any serious commitment to effective governance."
I mean, do you feel like Congress -- like, Washington is capable of functioning anymore?
KILDEE: Well, we've lost one of the partners here. And I don't mean to be overly partisan. As you know, I've never been particularly overly partisan, but it is true that the Republican Party as I once knew it and as it existed when I arrived in Congress no longer exists.
When I got here, John Boehner was the speaker. I worked with him. I worked with Speaker Paul Ryan. That seems like 100 years ago as compared to what we see right now.
You know, I don't agree with a lot of the tenets of the Republican Party but I kind of wish they would come back. I wish those people would take control of their own party so that we could have these differences but they would be serious policy differences opposed to what we see now, which is just a chaotic struggle -- like a junior high struggle over who is the coolest kid at the table. And it's destructive to American politics and it makes it difficult for us to do the people's business.
HUNT: Yeah.
You know, the president -- President Biden was out in Colorado and he criticized Lauren Boebert. He was in her district. And she -- you know, I mean, you almost want to laugh about it. She got kicked out of "Beetlejuice" with her partner because of the way she -- they were behaving in the theater.
[05:50:00]
It does seem like we're kind of in a shame-free era as well. I mean, how do you feel about that aspect of it?
KILDEE: That's a really good way to put it. It does feel like there's a loss of shame.
Look, I don't really know Rep. Boebert very well but I do know that she's not a serious legislator.
I mean, I think it's fine when we have a handful of characters in Congress. And you've been an observer of this place long enough to know that there are always a handful of folks who are --
HUNT: There are.
KILDEE: -- sort of caricatures of what the most extreme members of Congress look like. Unfortunately, there is a lot of them now and they're not just people on the fringe. There are folks like Marjorie Taylor Greene, for example, who for a long time was the right-hand person to the Speaker of the House of Representatives.
So this -- when I got here, Jim Jordan was considered sort of the fringy right -- and suddenly, he's mainstream in the Republican Party.
So things have dramatically changed and I think a member like Lauren Boebert is a good example of someone who was once considered sort of on the outer edge and is now right in the middle of the Republican Party, and they seem to embrace her.
HUNT: Congressman, did Democrats try to talk you out of your decision? I mean, your district is a very competitive one and the margin in the House is just so slim.
KILDEE: Yeah, there -- quite a few of my friends asked if there was anything they could do to talk me out of it.
I'm pretty close with Hakeem Jeffries. He and I came to Congress together. And when I explained my reasoning that it was really a personal decision and it was about wanting to be back home with my family, it's pretty hard to argue about that. And so he said, "Look, I would have tried to talk you out of it but we're personal friends before we're anything else." And he said, "Look, you're making the right decision for your family."
HUNT: Yeah, and I want to -- and I know that this was a bit health- related. I personally had a health scare as well. I mean, just briefly, as we close here, how did that understanding your own -- having that kind of impact on you, how did that affect your decision?
KILDEE: It had an effect in the sense that when I was going through the recovery from my cancer surgery -- I was diagnosed with cancer back in March and had pretty serious surgery in April. I'm healthy now and I'm cancer-free.
But the time to reflect without a voice for a few weeks -- can you imagine that? The time to reflect on what I want to do with the remaining years of my work life, which I hope will be a long time -- that was a time that I wouldn't otherwise have in the sort of merry- go-round that Congress presents. So it gave me a chance to sit back and think about what I want to do. And while I'm healthy I do want to spend more time in Michigan and maybe trying to affect the conditions of the folks that I serve back home in a different way; not in elective office.
HUNT: Yeah. Well, certainly, I share your interest and I think all Americans should share your interest in making sure that we have very good people in our Congress, as you point out, with all sorts of policy positions and differences.
I really appreciate the thoughtful conversation this morning, Congressman.
KILDEE: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: Yeah. Congressman Dan Kildee. Thanks very much.
Up next, JPMorgan chief executive Jamie Dimon weighing in on the 2024 presidential race. Why he says Democrats should boost Republican Nikki Haley, ahead.
And Elon Musk with a four-letter word for advertisers fleeing what used to be called Twitter.
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[05:56:51]
HUNT: Welcome back.
Elon Musk not holding back at all at The New York Times DealBook summit. Musk did apologize for endorsing an antisemitic post on the platform formerly known as Twitter this month. But then he said this about the advertisers that pay money.
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ELON MUSK, OWNER, X: If somebody's going to try to blackmail me with advertising, blackmail me with money, go (bleep) yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But --
MUSK: Go (bleep) yourself. Is that clear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Don't get me -- OK. The conversation went on to cover everything from presidential politics, artificial intelligence, to his recent trip to Israel, which he said was not an apology tour. He's one of the most powerful men in the world.
OK, let's go to sports because it makes a lot more sense. Jets quarterback Aaron Rodgers returns to the practice field taking another step toward making an improbable comeback.
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.
HUNT: Andy, good morning. How are you?
SCHOLES: Kasie, I'm not sure this makes more sense, though. The Jets -- they're 4-7 on the season and they basically would have to run the table in order to make the playoffs. So as incredible as it would be for Aaron Rodgers to come back after rupturing his Achilles on the fourth play of the season -- you know, it doesn't really make a lot of sense. That's a good segue.
But nevertheless, Rodgers was back at practice yesterday just doing some light work. The team now has 21 days to decide whether to activate him from injured reserve.
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ROBERT SALEH, NEW YORK JETS HEAD COACH: I think he's sacrificed so much already for the organization, and himself, and his teammates, and he's doing it again. I think it's a testament to who he is as a human.
And yeah, obviously, there's a little bit of that drive where he wants to prove that it can be done faster than anyone has ever done it before. That's OK. That's just part of his mental makeup. I think he still runs with a chip on his shoulder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHOLES: Yeah. So no player has come back from an Achilles injury in less than five months. Rodgers is trying to do it in 3 1/2. He turns 40 on Saturday. The Jets host the Falcons on Sunday.
All right. In college basketball, Arkansas hosting number-seven Duke in front of a record-setting crowd at Bud Walton Arena last night and they gave the fans their money's worth. This one was neck-and-neck from the start before the Razorbacks pulled away late behind Khalif Battle's 21 points to upset the Blue Devils 80-75. And all of the fans having a grand old time rushing the court after that final buzzer sounded. Now, on the women's side, LSU star Angel Reese is finally back with the team after being mysteriously absent since November 14. Over the past two weeks, head coach Kim Mulkey never explained what was going on. And while she still didn't say what happened when announcing Reese would be back for tonight's big game against ninth-ranked Virginia Tech.
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KIM MULKEY, LSU HEAD COACH: Angel is back and we are happy, happy, happy. She's happy, happy, happy. She's available to play Thursday.
I really think Angel will just be like Angel. I mean, she's just been good. She's been really good in practice.
Do you want to know how many hours, how many days, specifics? She's not going to show up tomorrow and play a game. What's in that locker room stays in that locker room unless it becomes something that's public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[06:00:10]
SCHOLES: Well, Kasie, her absence was very public but I guess what -- the reason behind it will stay in that locker room forever.
HUNT: Yeah, I guess so.
You know, I have to say -- to go back to Aaron -- like, I didn't think 40 years old -- I mean, it's not that old but, man, you're trying to heal an Achilles in 3 1/2 months? Like, oh.
SCHOLES: And the Jets season -- it's a lost season, basically. It doesn't make much -- that's why most people think he should just wait.
HUNT: Yeah. No, totally -- totally.
All right. Andy Scholes, thank you very much.
SCHOLES: All right.
HUNT: And thanks to all of you for joining us. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. "CNN THIS MORNING" starts right now.
