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Pope Francis Has Died At 88, Vatican Announces. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired April 21, 2025 - 05:30   ET

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[05:33:02]

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to breaking news coverage of the death of Pope Francis. I'm Polo Sandoval in New York.

For more continuing coverage I want to bring in my colleague now, Audie Cornish, who is standing by in Washington as we continue to cover the death of Pope Francis -- Audie.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much, Polo.

Pope Francis, of course, the 266th head of the Roman Catholic Church, has died at age 88. The Vatican says he passed away at 7:35 local time this morning with a statement reading in part, "His whole life was dedicated to the service of the Lord and his church."

His passing comes just a day after Easter Sunday where the Pope gave the traditional Easter blessing from the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, delighting crowds of worshipers. It was his most high profile appearance since being released from a Rome hospital almost a month ago where the Pope spent weeks receiving treatment for double pneumonia.

Francis became the first Latin American pope in 2013 and was one of the oldest popes in the church's history. Now, throughout his papacy he was a vocal champion for the poor, for migrants, and for the environment.

In the Vatican's statement, Cardinal Kevin Farrell said, "He taught us to live the values of the gospel with fidelity, courage, and universal love, especially in favor of the poorest and the most marginalized."

CNN Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb joins us here with more. He's actually now just outside St. Peter's Square. And Chris, can you just start with the gathering? I'm sure more and more people as they're hearing are appearing in the Square.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. People are gathering in St. Peter's Square at the moment. This, of course, is jubilee year in Rome and many people are visiting.

The news is beginning to filter through to people, and it is news that has been greeted with sadness because, of course, Pope Francis was a hugely popular pope. He was the people's pope who connected with so many different groups, particularly those on the margins of society -- the migrants, refugees, the poorest people, the homeless. I mean, just where I am sitting here there are a number of homeless who gather each day (INAUDIBLE) to set up facilities to help those homeless who are sleeping rough.

[05:35:18]

Now, Francis was a pope who tried to put into action the values of the Christian message. So, as I said, the importance of service but also humility and poverty. He took the name Saint Francis of Assisi, a saint who was devoted to those values.

And he, himself, Francis, lived a very simple lifestyle. He did not live in the Apostolic Palace behind me but in the Sanctae Marthae guesthouse, a place for people who wanted to visit Rome on church business. A place where he originally stayed as Cardinal Bergoglio before he was elected Pope Francis. He stayed in the Sanctae Marthae and remained there. And he decided to not live in the palace but in the simple guesthouse because he also wanted to have access to people. It was very important that he could meet and talk to people and be a very accessible pope.

And just yesterday, Easter Sunday, Francis was out on the Popemobile greeting the crowds despite clearly suffering from the effects of his double pneumonia. He wasn't his usual self yesterday. It was clear he wasn't engaged, particularly in the crowds as he usually is.

Now, Francis, as we know, was the first pope from Latin America. He was very much an outsider figure. He had not studied or lived in Rome before his election and that meant he shook up the church and the Vatican establishment. He refused to be scripted by the Roman Curia, the church's central administration. He was very much his own man.

And on his first trip outside of Rome was to Lampedusa, the island in southern Italy where migrants were coming in from North Africa risking their lives and dying in the process. And the Pope decided he would go to Lampedusa as his first visit. And it was said that the pope had called Alitalia Airways to book a ticket for himself on the plane. And when Alitalia heard that someone called (INAUDIBLE) were trying to book at ticket they called the Vatican and said hang on -- what's going on here? And in the end the Vatican had to organize an official trip.

But he had that sort of restlessness, that desire, that determination to serve and to break convention. He didn't always follow protocols. He was a pope of surprises.

And when he announced the names of new cardinals, he wouldn't tell the cardinals -- he wouldn't tell anyone. He would announce them from behind me at the Vatican in the Apostolic Palace. And he'd often choose cardinals who were not the obvious candidates. He chose bishops who were serving in places like Tonga or Haiti, or the Central African Republic, or Mongolia -- places that have never had cardinals before. He thoroughly reformed the College of Cardinals, the body who will be

tasked with electing his successor. He internationalized it and he took away the ecclesiastical career ladder that meant that if you were appointed as an archbishop to a certain diocese or church you would then automatically become a cardinal, and now Francis changed all that. He shook things up in that respect and that did see him face quite a lot of opposition.

He was, of course, a pope who was very pastoral and compassionate. He shifted the Catholic Church's approach when it came to same-sex relationships and LGBTQ+ Catholics. He offered blessings to gay couples. He famously said, "Who am I to judge" when asked about a gay priest.

He shifted the approach. He didn't change the fundamental doctrines or teachings, but he demanded a more pastoral strategy or pastoral approach. He insisted that people are who are gay are children of God and should be included and welcomed. He insisted time and again that the church is open to everyone. "Todos, todos, todos," he said at World Youth Day in Portugal where a huge gathering of young people. He said the church is open to everyone, and that was really his message. A pope of the people for the people.

And I think there is a lot of sadness here in the square as the news of Francis' death announced this morning by Cardinal Kevin Farrell, the Irish-born U.S. naturalized citizen who is a cardinal in Rome -- the former bishop of Dallas. He announced the news this morning that Pope Francis has died.

[05:40:00]

CORNISH: Chris, thanks so much.

And we have some more news now which is that the White House has done a social media post saying, "Rest in peace, Pope Francis" with the image there, of course, of both the president and J.D. Vance, who is Catholic, meeting with the pope.

I'm joined now by Kim Daniels. We're bringing here in because she's the director of the Georgetown Initiative on Catholic and Social Thought. First of all, thank you for joining on this morning. I think it's a sad day for so many people in the world.

Can you tell us a little bit about what it was -- how significant it was for him to be named pope in the first place?

KIM DANIELS, DIRECTOR, GEORGETOWN INITIATIVE ON CATHOLIC SOCIAL THOUGHT. Just a remarkable moment. I was there in St. Peter's Square when Pope Francis was named pope, and I just can't tell you the feeling. It's in many ways parallel to the feeling I have now, and I know so many Catholics. It was so hopeful, so forward-looking, and just a moment of real joy as we welcomed this people who had chosen the name Francis -- a man of peace, a man of rebuilding the church. A man who was forward-looking.

And he really had a heart for the poor -- St. Francis did -- and, of course, we saw that with Pope Francis throughout his papacy.

I think the feeling that Catholics have right now, of course, is one of mourning the death of Pope Francis who was just such a remarkable leader at this moment in time. And also, again, one of hope that again on Easter Monday Pope Francis -- he went out giving a blessing to all yesterday on Easter Sunday, the holiest day of the year for us. And really, a forward-looking church that is there for the poor and vulnerable. A church of mercy and accompaniment.

CORNISH: When he took over, he said he would approach the Catholic Church more like a field hospital. Can you talk about what he meant by that and how that played out?

DANIELS: That was exactly the theme I think that we saw throughout his church -- throughout, excuse me, his papacy that it was a field hospital church that went out to the margins. So he said it's not about -- it's not about sort of staying enclosed inside the walls of the church. That would be a sick church, he said, if we just stayed within our doors.

But it was more like a field hospital. After battle, we were called to go forth to heal wounds first and then discuss doctrine, and then discuss harder issues, right? But the first thing is to heal people's wounds.

And I think that's what you saw with Pope Francis in his travels gong around the world to the places that had been forgotten. In his outreach to people who were marginalized, who were poor, or who were, as he said, lying wounded by the roadside like in the story of the Good Samaritan -- the parable that was so close to his heart and that he recalled us to time and time again.

CORNISH: He also approached the issue of corruption in the Catholic Church. Can you talk about what that meant in reality? How he affected how it was run.

DANIELS: Sure. I think Pope Francis -- really, his legacy is one of both spiritual renewal and structural reform offering this dynamic hopeful vision that I've talked about. And, of course, there are many challenges in the church, right, and you point out some of them.

He had tried -- his efforts have been to implement significant structural reforms in the church to make it more responsive and more effective in its mission. And in doing that, responding to corruption, responding to the clergy sexual abuse crisis, and in many ways advancing Vatican II, the counsel -- the Vatican counsel to its vision through reform. Obviously, it made many -- sort of many steps forward here but also so much left to do at the same time.

CORNISH: As we mentioned, your Georgetown initiative focuses on Catholic social thought. He was very much a political pope, in a way -- very -- right until the last minute we saw him in a photo with Vice President J.D. Vance, right, who had spoken making some interpretations about theology.

Can you talk about his legacy in that respect? What you're going to be thinking about over the next few days.

DANIELS: I think I would say first of all, yesterday, the way he approached J.D. Vance, frankly, was as a pastor, right? He gave him gifts for his children - Easter eggs for his children.

He met with this new convert to the church on Easter Sunday, and I think that is the first lens through which we should look through that meeting.

And then at the same time, I think it's important to note that Pope Francis really, really called us to be a church that both works past the kind of divisions that we see and that engages in political life. That knows we're not called to retreat but as Catholics called to be present in public conversations. Called to be in the world, as you said. Be a field hospital out in the world. And that means sticking up for the poorest of the poor or those who are forgotten -- for migrants, for refugees, for again those who are suffering.

And I think those are messages that Pope Francis brought to every political leader.

CORNISH: Again, that's Kim Daniels, director of the Georgetown Initiative on Catholic Social Thought. Thank you for your time.

[05:45:00]

We're joined now by our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson who, of course, has been monitoring the reaction coming in from around the world.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, and I think as you were just discussing there about the meeting with J.D. Vance just yesterday and coming to him as a pastor, world leaders who had ever come in contact with Pope Francis understood that this was a man who wasn't going to be afraid to tell them where he thought perhaps things could be better.

And that's what I think we're getting a sense of today when we're hearing from leaders. From Emmanuel Macron speaking about the joy and hope that the pope brought to the poorer people of the world.

And this is a theme that we've heard people talk about in terms of Pope Francis about how he wanted to care for the weak. How he wanted to improve interfaith dialogue. How he wanted to address the difficult issues be it -- of our time, be it -- be it immigration issues that beset world leaders around the globe.

We've heard this morning from Friedrich Merz who is the German chancellor-in-waiting, in essence. And he talks about the Pope's tireless commitment to the weakest members of society and bringing justice and reconciliation, and Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, speaks about.

And I think again, this gets to the interfaith area the fact that the pope set such a -- such a standard in compassion humanity. He reached -- as your last guest was saying, he reached beyond the faith. And this is what Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, speaks today. He reached millions of people with his humanity beyond the Catholic faith.

Narendra Modi, the Indian prime minister, is speaking -- has spoken today about his respect of the pope's compassion and humanity.

We've heard from the -- from the Israeli president today, Isaac Herzog, talking about again the importance of that interfaith dialogue to bring understanding between different communities.

But the overarching picture that emerges here, the leaders who absolutely understood his compassion and absolutely understood that he wanted to reach to the poorer and make their lives better and would communicate that.

And this was such an active pope who traveled so much to meet so many people -- the disenfranchised -- but he didn't forget to speak to their leaders. And, of course, that's what we witnessed yesterday with J.D. Vance.

CORNISH: How much was he kind of a representative also of the global south which, of course, he was the first pope from Latin America born to Italian parents. But how did that influence how he conducted his papacy?

ROBERTSON: He came to it with the understanding and being part of a poorer, less -- a vast population that just had less opportunity than much of the developed world. And this gave him that grounding and that sense of the vast amount of humanity that needed -- you know, that needed the church's mission to help them. To help them in their daily lives by pastoral care and understanding but also to try to help improve their lives in the broader sense.

So I think this is -- this is clearly what influenced and grounded him. And it was something again -- and I think what it -- I think one of your contributors just mentioned the fact that he wasn't educated in the traditional way in Rome. His education came from a different part of the world with a different perspective and less prescribed set of views and surrounded by people of less good fortune than perhaps some of the gilded halls that are frequented in the capitals around the world.

So yes, this absolutely was fundamental to him forming that picture. And it was something that he brought into all churches whether it be small congregations in the U.K., huge churches in other parts of the world. He brought that message of humanity, of helping those around you -- the poorer. And, of course, that touched a huge chord because many Catholics --

CORNISH: So I don't --

ROBERTSON: -- are drawn for this reason to the faith.

[05:50:00]

CORNISH: That's CNN Nic Robertson taking in all of the response from world leaders today with the death of Pope Francis. He, of course, died at the age of 88. That was announced by the Vatican. He had also been essentially the oldest pope to have -- to have served.

We're going to talk next with CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman. He joins us live.

Ben, this, in a way -- not that it wasn't a surprise, but the pope had been in ill health for so long, even prior to the double pneumonia.

Can you talk about what it's been like the last couple of years?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The last couple of years, Audie, we've seen him going into the hospital basically every year. Clearly, at 88 years old, he was not in good health, but his health was slowly deteriorating. He had mobility problems. He had abdominal surgery. It was clearly mounting.

And certainly when in mid-February he went into Gemelli -- Rome's Gemelli Hospital and was soon afterwards diagnosed with double pneumonia, it certainly seemed that his days were numbered. That this was a pope who pushed himself very hard. A pope who despite the urging of doctors and his advisers really did not relent in pursuing his goals.

And therefore -- you know, I was at Gemelli Hospital when on his last day there he appeared on a balcony and then drove away and waved to the crowd from his Fiat Cinquecento as he returned to the Vatican. It was thought that perhaps the worst had passed. That the pope was beginning to recover.

The doctors had urged him to rest for at least two months. To not do too much to put a stress, a strain on his health. But what we say yesterday was real evidence of a pope who was insistent on resuming as much as possible his activities.

So even though -- basically, we're never quite sure -- we were never quite sure whether he would appear or whether he would meet people, for instance. Recently, King Charles and Queen Camilla were here. It wasn't clear if he would meet them but out of the blue he did meet them briefly.

J.D. Vance showed up in Rome recently and yet again it was a case of we're not sure if he's going to meet him but in the end he did. Certainly it appears to have been his last act -- public act before passing away was to meet the U.S. vice president.

So he really, to the very last moment, tried to serve. To do his job. To show that he was active, that he was concerned, and that to his very last moment he was expressing concern over the situation.

For instance, he said yesterday when -- or rather, it was read for him from St. Peter's Square. He said, "I think of the people of Gaza and the Christian community in particular where the terrible conflict continues to cause death and destruction and create a dramatic and deplorable humanitarian situation." So he clearly was concerned to the very last moment to express -- to remind the world of conflicts like Gaza, which have sort of become background music in a sense for the media and political leaders who seem to have forgotten it altogether.

And therefore, he was somebody who did not drop the ball. Did not get distracted by other things. He was a man focused on, as we've heard my colleagues say, the poorest of the poor, the downtrodden, the forgotten in this world -- Audie.

CORNISH: And, of course, we heard earlier someone describe him as the pope of surprises. And it's, I think, in the end, this is also something that has taken people off guard, especially with him appearing yesterday.

What more are you hearing in terms of reaction from international leaders or other areas?

WEDEMAN: Well, certainly, just to start locally, here in Rome we heard the bells ringing -- church bells ringing across the city as news spread that the pope had passed away.

Italians I know were in shock because many people thought he was getting better. He left the hospital. He was out and about yesterday. The assumption was that even though he was 88 and in frail health that he was trying to resume his normal activities. And therefore, it really came out of the blue.

[05:55:00]

Keep in mind, Audie, that today is a holiday. It's known as Pasquetta. It's the day after Easter -- a day when normally people here go out to enjoy the spring weather, go to the beach, go out for picnics, go to the parks. It's a day of where families get together. And suddenly, the atmosphere is completely different. The weather's nice but certainly there is sort of a cloud of sadness that hovers over Rome and probably extends well beyond Rome.

In terms of world reaction certainly we've heard from the usual political leaders expressing condolences for the death of the pope. But I think we need to go beyond those people and think of the many people around the world not just Catholics but others who have looked to the pope as a voice of compassion, of concern for those who are often forgotten.

I spend -- I've basically made a career reporting from the Middle East and I can tell you that many Muslims look at the pope as one of the few leaders left in the world who seems to have compassion and concern for the others -- those who are normally not the focus of attention. Somebody who looks at global conflict and doesn't judge upon the basis of religion or national origin but simply the humanity of those who are the victims of these conflicts and injustices -- Audie.

CORNISH: Thank you so much for speaking with us.

And, of course, CNN's breaking news coverage of the death of Pope Francis continues. We'll return after this quick break.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

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