Return to Transcripts main page

Early Start with Rahel Solomon

Cardinals Vote for New Pope on Day 2 of Conclave. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired May 08, 2025 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Thirty-three cardinals are voting, sequestered. Pope Francis passed away last month at the age of 88 after a lengthy illness. He will be replaced with the 267th Pope of the Catholic Church.

Katie Prejean McGrady joins us, our Vatican analyst, host of the Katie McGrady Show on Sirius XM's Catholic channel. And Father Enzo Del Brocco from the Church of Our Savior in Pelham, New York, in the Passionist Order, joins the conversation. Along with, of course, Christopher Lamb and Kim Daniels back with me here in Vatican City.

And Christopher, I want to, Father Del Brocco, a chance to talk about something that you were just mentioning and you and I were talking about -- and no one saw it, so let's share it -- which is that part of the reason that we could be seeing some delays here isn't just that most of these cardinals are new, isn't just that most were appointed by Francis, isn't just that, therefore, they don't know the protocol the same way. It's that they are literally the most diverse group to ever elect a pope, and that comes down to the most simple thing of communication in the room of language.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, I mean, look, some of these cardinals don't speak Italian. Of course, Italian is the lingua franca of the Vatican. So because they come from such diverse backgrounds and countries, there could be a need for more time so they can communicate with each other and get to know each other. And that's why this conclave could take a bit longer than previous ones.

BURNETT: Yes, and Father Del Brocco, I mean, so every day, and now this is day two, they have to vote, randomly select -- I'm sorry, randomly select three cardinals to do the vote count, three more cardinals to check that vote count, and that changes every day. So there's things like that that just take time in the process.

But to just think about in that room, conversations or voting, when you have people, you know, who do not share a common language and more so than has ever been the case, frankly, in the history of the Catholic Church.

FATHER ENZO DEL BROCCO, ROMAN CATHOLIC PASSIONIST PRIEST: Yes, certainly, I mean, you know, they're not using electronic voting, so there's a whole process and that takes time. And I agree, I mean, it's such a diverse body and obviously, we have

also an extra 18 cardinals and cardinals who come from places that have never had a cardinal before. And I think that's, though, something positive.

So I wouldn't be so much worried about the fact that how long it will take, but the fact that actually voices that have never been heard before are actually present to elect the next Pope, I think that's actually very great. And I think it's good, even if they have time to spend more -- they need more time to spend to know one another, I think that's actually very beneficial. I don't see it as a negative.

And I think that whoever will be chosen also in that room and listening to their names to be called when they're calling the ballots, I think also that is creating some kind of tension because hearing your name being called, you could be elected and noticing what's going on in the room. Whoever's going to be elected also is living this process and also hearing what is really necessary because whoever's going to be elected is the Pope of everyone. It's going to be the Pope of all the cardinals while all the church, the worldwide church.

And so I think it's very important that they really have their time to do this.

BURNETT: Katie, just from a psychological perspective, when Christopher has been reporting that as so many of these cardinals have been appointed by -- the majority of them, frankly -- by Pope Francis and had not had a chance to really meet in any notable way prior to this, so that in meetings over the past week, they would be wearing name tags at gatherings of cardinals.

Just from a psychological perspective, it's pretty incredible to imagine that you could end up voting for somebody that you knew so little of that you had to look at their name tag to get their name right.

KATIE PREJEAN MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: It's true. And I noticed the name tag thing as they were putting out the Vatican sizzle reels every day of what was happening inside the congregation. And a small part of me wondered, they didn't have them the first couple of days. Did somebody ask for them?

I think it's also notable, as these ballots are being read out, like Father Enzo said, they're hearing the names of their brother cardinal who is maybe being voted for again and again and again. And somebody who maybe doesn't know one guy, so if you war game it out, maybe Cardinal Parolin's name is being called and somebody's like, oh, I don't know a whole lot about him.

Well, we can assume that when they're going back to the Casa Santa Marta for meals or for their afternoon break, they're going to discuss things with each other, not in a political maneuvering, but just, well, tell me a little bit about this person. And we don't know how those conversations necessarily go, but from that psychological perspective, these men take it very seriously and they have to arrive at consensus. They're going to lean on one another to get to know one another.

[04:35:02]

And I find that quite beautiful because there's a brotherliness to what they're doing.

BURNETT: Yes, and Kim, it's also though, again, back to the most simple issue of language. So when those conversations that Katie's referring to happen at Casa Santa Marta, they're going to happen with people that you can talk to, right? And I'm not presenting it as a limiting thing.

It's just a reality that sets the stage for you're going to talk to people that you can actually communicate with. And that creates a commonality that, you know, you may not have with someone who you truly don't share a language with.

KIM DANIELS, DIRECTOR, GEORGETOWN INITIATIVE ON CATHOLIC SOCIAL THOUGHT: It's true, it's true. There's Vatican again and the church, this global church of almost one and a half billion people is the most multilingual and multicultural institution in the world. And so when you draw people from all those cultures here to Rome to make such an important decision, it's going to be hard to cross those boundaries.

And again, I will just say though that they have had ways to get together and know each other. Many of them have worked together on the synod process, which is this global gathering. And here, I believe that they'll have, before they got into the conclave, they were able to look on online and find examples of somebody preaching or speaking.

And so there've been ways.

BURNETT: I can only imagine them. And you know, the obvious point about sequestration, you can't pull up Google Translate or anything like that to figure out some of the reality. Which brings me, Christopher, to I know what you've done so much reporting on, you know, one of the cardinals from Spain was asked, you know, how long will this go? And he said, it'll be very short.

He provided no reason for that. Perhaps the biggest reason, if it is short, one reason would be because being sequestered in this day and age is even for a cardinal who is supposed to be a person of faith and meditation, removing people from the ultimate addiction in their lives, the phone.

LAMB: Yes, I mean, they've got a motivating factor to try and get this --

BURNETT: Get your device back.

LAMB: I also think that the way the conclave works is that you do get to a two horse race or the sort of top candidates in the race quite quickly. And that's what the early votes are about, identifying who is really being considered seriously. And then I think it moves quite fast. That's how it's designed. I mean, secret ballots are known for being quite efficient in that way. So I think that the speed of the conclave is down to that.

But yes, I can imagine some of them are wanting to reconnect.

BURNETT: And we have heard, I mean, Paroline is known to everybody. Tagle is known to everybody because they have been here in Rome, they have worked with Cardinals. So it would seem, Kim, that if it is going to be one of the perceived top front runners, that would not necessarily need to be a long process.

In fact, if it is one of them, it would just seem to imply that would actually happen pretty quickly because you're either going to succeed or fail and go another route.

DANIELS: I think today, if we saw white smoke right now, that would indicate, as Chris has said, that it was one of the front runners. And at the same time, what you're really looking for, because you have to get to two-thirds, you have to get to real consensus. And I don't think anybody thinks that the front runners, either one, has that kind of consensus.

So you're almost looking for, who are the names in the back? Who might be somebody that would emerge from that?

BURNETT: Yes, Father Del Brocco, it's interesting, actually. The two- thirds rule in place now, for a brief while, they had partially eliminated, saying, well, look, if it takes you 33 or 34 rounds of voting, then fine, we'll go to a simple majority. But then there was a fear, right, that people would just hold out as long as they could to get to that and then get their 50 percent plus one.

So two-thirds it is.

DEL BROCCO: Yes, and I think that's also beneficial for everyone and for the church, too, to have the two-thirds of consensus. And again, as I said before, if it might be a short election or a long one, that really doesn't matter. But the consensus is very important, because whoever's going to be elected really has to be a person that, who's everyone in communion, is able to reach out to everyone, is going to speak for everyone and lay a life down for everyone.

So I think that's also important. And it's, I kind of fascinated that in this day of technology, everyone is looking at this chimney, you know, waiting for the smoke to come out. But also the fact that these cardinals are closed inside and that everyone will know the news at the same time with that white smoke or that black smoke that comes out, what is going on.

I think that really that calls us also to understand how important this moment is for them, because yes, it's a conclave, they're closed in, but each cardinal is bringing with himself the world, everything that they know, because these are men who have been in contact with the world, with the pastorally, with the administration. And so they're bringing the world within them. And now they have to confront with themselves with their own conscience and really try to reach a consensus that will, and to answer to the hope of the world and to the church.

BURNETT: And Katie, just to make the point, I mean, obviously, it's just the Catholic Church. It's one and a half billion Catholics.

[04:40:00]

But when you think about it, there are very few people on this planet that everybody on the planet, most everyone on the planet would know who they are and their name. And the Pope is still one of those people.

MCGRADY: He is, he commands the attention of the world in a lot of ways. I think it's why Cardinal Re in his homily yesterday specifically spoke about a Pope that can awaken the consciences of the world. Because everybody's looking right now at a chimney.

Well, at this moment, a seagull, but we're waiting for the smoke and happy to see the seagull in the process. But everybody wants to notice, OK, who's it going to be? And what qualities will he have? And how will he govern the church? But how will he also approach the world?

And as the Cardinals sit in there, this is the first quiet that they've really had in this whole process. Since Pope Francis died, leading up to this, this is the first moment where the outside world is not badgering them with questions, where they're not being asked for interviews, where they're not having to maybe gather all this external information. They get to sit and to ponder, to pray, to listen to the voice of the spirit. And then from there, we will get this global leader to awaken the world's conscience.

BURNETT: All right, well, thank you all so much. As we look at those seagulls, I will say just in a moment of levity, but also reality here, those seagulls, everyone's paying attention to them in this square. When they leave, when they come back, there's clapping.

They have provided some entertainment as people stare at a chimney with nothing coming out of it. Presuming that these may be the same seagulls as yesterday. I don't know, I'm not a birdwatcher, but they are a part of this story here at the Vatican.

Much more from Rome still ahead this hour. Cardinals are going to be casting their votes for a new pope really at any moment. So that smoke, we are formally on smoke watch, could come at any time.

We'll be right back.

[04:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back and just into CNN, a new development in the hostilities between Pakistan and India. Not long ago, Pakistan announced that it took down 12 Indian drones overnight across the country, adding that a civilian was killed and four soldiers wounded. Pakistan called this a serious provocation and yet another act of blatant military aggression from India.

Now, CNN cannot verify these claims, but we have reached out to the Indian military for comment.

We're also following the latest developments from Moscow where Chinese President Xi Jinping is meeting today with Russian President Vladimir Putin. They're expected to discuss the war in Ukraine as President Putin has called a three-day unilateral ceasefire to coincide with Victory Day celebrations across Russia.

Ukraine's Air Force, however, says that despite the truce, Russia launched guided bombs on the Sumy region in northern Ukraine. The local prosecutor reports that one woman was killed, several others were wounded in the attacks. CNN cannot independently verify these claims.

All right, coming up next, we will go live to Rome for the second day of the papal conclave and the latest on the efforts to choose a new leader of the Catholic Church. We'll be right back.

[04:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: And welcome back to CNN special coverage of the papal conclave. I'm Erin Burnett. We are here at the Vatican outside St. Peter's Basilica with the Sistine Chapel where right now the cardinals are meeting. Day two of their efforts to select a new pope is formally underway and they will vote up to four times today to elect a new pope. So any of those times could yield the white smoke of a new pope.

Yesterday the first votes were cast and it was black smoke. We saw it from the chimney as it was dark but there was no mistaking that that was a dark black smoke no pope coming up from the Sistine Chapel indicating that the cardinals at least at first were unable to decide on a new leader. We just don't know who the front runners are and what is happening inside the Sistine Chapel right now.

Let's go to our CNN international correspondent Ben Wedeman because, Ben, what we can all see here is the crowds gathering. They've been coming in steadily here these past couple of hours. The Vatican now saying last night there were up to 45,000 people in this square with us and you're seeing more people, you know, filing in now hoping to be here for white smoke.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes we've already spoken to several people who are here obviously. Many people are here, Erin, for brief visits and they are hoping fingers crossed that they will be here for the white smoke. Now let me just get out of the way and Alessandro Gentile our cameraman move in.

As you can see behind the barrier there are many people waiting hoping to see the morning smoke. Obviously hoping for white smoke but as we saw last night there were massive crowds here waiting for a very long time. The assumption among many was that at 7 p.m. local time there would be soon afterwards some smoke. We ended up waiting for two hours. People were very patient. I was next to a group of Cumbia pilgrims who passed the time by reciting the Lord's Prayer over and over again.

But I think people realize that this is a process that takes its time and no one has any special sources inside the conclave so we just have to wait for that smoke signal. The white smoke or the black smoke to tell us what is going on inside because we have no idea what is happening inside the confines of the Sistine Chapel -- Erin.

BURNETT: Yes, no, none at all. It is so amazing, Ben. I saw a field trip, a large group of kids going in and to think about that, right. To have today as your field trip day, it doesn't get canceled and you're here possibly on the day you get to see a Pope. No surprise, it seemed like every parent was chaperoning.

[04:55:00]

All right, Ben Wedeman, thanks so much from St. Peter's Square here where we are.

And that wraps up this special hour of our coverage of the Papal Conclave, but we are going to be here watching the smoke with you.

I'm Erin Burnett in Vatican City. We'll be back with more news after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLOMON: Good morning and welcome to our viewers joining us from the U.S. and all around the world. I'm Rahel Solomon. It is Thursday, May 8th, 5 a.m. here in New York -- just about 5 a.m. here in New York. And straight ahead on EARLY START.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, folks, I won't be able to talk to you until you see the white smoke.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't tell if it was black or white, to be honest, because of how dark it is.

[05:00:00]