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Early Start with Rahel Solomon

Pakistan: Downed 25 Indian Drones, A "Serious Provocation"; Black Smoke Seen On Day Two Of Conclave, No Pope Chosen. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired May 08, 2025 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: India has been sending these drones, according to the Pakistani military -- 25 of them that it says it has neutralized so far, or most of them have been neutralized so far -- has been sending them into Pakistan. They're a loitering explosive munition.

Now the Pakistani military say that these are an Israeli-made drone. It's a bit like a flying bomb is how they describe them.

CNN cannot independently verify what Pakistani military are saying here. However, since about 4:00 a.m. local time, 10 hours ago here, we've been seeing on social media multiple reports of unexplained flying objects of debris, of the noise that people aren't aware of.

And what is happening -- the picture that is merging -- emerging is quite staggering, and it really speaks to an escalation in this conflict that's brewing here and underway at the moment.

These drones have been seen in Karachi, the major port city in the south. In Sindh province in the deep south one farmer was killed by the drone there. In Lahore, a major city here -- population of 30 million people -- four soldiers were injured there when one of those drones, partially disabled, came down.

Also, one of the drones reportedly was targeting Rawalpindi, about 10 miles from here. It is not only the headquarters of the Pakistani military, it's also, right now, hosting the Pakistani Super League, a major cricket event for Pakistan that actually involves international players as well.

The picture that has emerged here is of these loitering drones -- explosive-laden loitering drones that are heading in the -- all over the country from the south all the way up to the north.

When I was speaking with Pakistani officials late into the night before this began, they were saying at that time that they were absolutely going to strike back at India for the attacks yesterday that killed 31 people, women and children included. And they deny India's claims that the sites that were hit were terrorist locations. They were already planning an attack. Not clear when that was going to come. This latest series of events that we understand is ongoing with these drones coming from India will be seen and interpreted by them as a very clear escalation -- a new, serious provocation. That's how the army spokesman described it.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: Nic Robertson, we are fortunate to have you there. We appreciate your reporting live from Islamabad. Nic, thank you.

All right, coming up next, we'll go live to Rome for the second day of the papal conclave and the latest in the efforts to choose a new leader of the Catholic Church.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL)

[05:37:45]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to our special coverage of the papal conclave here on CNN. I'm Erin Burnett.

We are just outside the Vatican where day two of the cardinals voting to select a new pope is underway. There are 133 of them right now inside the Sistine Chapel and they will vote today up to four times to elect a new pope. There will only be fewer than four if they have a pope before that. Four is the maximum number of votes today.

And last night darkness descended after hours of expectation and delay and waiting. There was black smoke coming from that chimney, which has been installed on the Sistine Chapel to indicate that the cardinals were unable to decide on a new leader.

So let's go to our CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman here in Rome. And Ben, as we are here in St. Peter's Square people are flooding in, flooding in, flooding in, in anticipation, of course, of many hours of possible voting. Right now there could already have been a vote. We wouldn't know unless a pope had been selected. There could be another vote coming in the next few minutes. We just don't know. But the crowds are filing in, and they will be waiting.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it's 11:38 Rome time and what we see is people gathering, hoping to see smoke -- preferably white smoke -- billowing from the Sistine Chapel.

Now, normally, we understand that there are two votes before lunch. Lunch in Italy is normally around 1:00 p.m. local time, so probably there won't be any smoke before that. But people are very much come -- eager to see this one-in-a-lifetime event perhaps for some.

And we did have an opportunity earlier to speak to a group of three women -- two from Canada and one from the United States, originally from the Philippines -- and they told us who they're looking for or what qualities they're looking for in the next pope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We hope for an older pope.

WEDEMAN: I think he's --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

WEDEMAN: -- he's young.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, 67. He's just 67.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's why we're not -- we're not hoping for him. We want really older, older to be fair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.

[05:40:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it's whoever God -- the holy spirit will guide the cardinals to pick the -- God's will for the pope. So we'll be happy -- be very happy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need someone to be like Pope Francis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, that's what we're hoping for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEDEMAN: Yesterday, for about two hours, people were gathered here -- almost 50,000 according to the Italian authorities -- waiting for that first puff of smoke which, of course, turned out to be black.

Now, we understand that one of the reasons why perhaps things are taking a little longer is that this conclave with 133 cardinal electors has -- is the largest number of electors in history, so things might be taking a little longer.

In addition to that, many of these cardinals have never met one another before and so really there's a process of getting to know one another and getting to know the candidates -- the potential candidates better than they did before.

So things might take a little more time. In 2013, there were five votes before Jorge Bergoglio -- actually, Pope Francis -- was elected. This time, because of the number of cardinals and the unfamiliarity among the cardinals themselves, it may take a little longer -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Ben. Thank you very much.

And as the world waits for the smoke, I will just make sure everyone knows where we're sitting. You see the chimney behind where we are. You'll see the balcony where a new pope will emerge when one is selected for the first time.

Our coverage here, live from Rome, continues after the break.

(COMMERCIAL) [05:46:15]

BURNETT: All right. Here in Rome, outside the Vatican, we are waiting. And it is about 11:45 local time her in Rome. In the early -- in the morning window here there are two rounds of voting. And we are at 11:45. We have not yet seen white smoke.

Christopher Lamb with me, our Vatican correspondent. That most likely means that they are done with the second round of voting and did not have a pope and have moved on to the third. I'm not 100 percent sure but most likely that's where we are. And in that case, we'll see white smoke or black smoke before they break for lunch.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I think we can be pretty confident they're into that third ballot, second of the morning, and that we will get smoke to indicate where things are at around lunchtime, after the cardinals have finished and are heading back to the Santa Marta.

BURNETT: And the voting -- it's interesting because you were saying that they -- they're encouraged to disguise their -- all they do in the Sistine Chapel is vote. There's no speeches. There's no talking. It's a sacred, silent process, essentially, and they vote no -- if there's no outcome they vote again. Encouraged to disguise their handwriting --

LAMB: Yeah.

BURNETT: -- and just sort of put your hand in front of what you're writing so that no one can see what you're writing.

LAMB: Yeah, exactly. It's a secret ballot and you're really not supposed to show anyone who you are voting for. And some people do disguise their handwriting.

There's also the possibility of human error and mistakes. I know that what's being reported on the first round when the conclave elected Francis, someone wrote Broglio on the ballot. Broglio was not a candidate or was not in the Sistine Chapel. So that was obviously an invalid ballot. So you have all these --

BURNETT: Yeah.

LAMB: -- potential for human error as well.

BURNETT: Right, if you misspell a name.

I mean, Kim it is -- it is incredible. But in such solemnity, and seriousness, and majesty, and all of the things that go around this, it still can come down to things like writing Broglio instead of Bergoglio.

KIM DANIELS, DIRECTOR, INITIATIVE ON CATHOLIC SOCIAL THOUGHT AND PUBLIC LIFE, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Exactly. It's such a human process and that's the essence of the church. You have the majesty. You have the architecture, the beauty, the sacraments, all of that. And also, we are human beings and we make mistakes. And it's really delightful in some way. I think it's really interesting to watch how this works.

BURNETT: And Father Beck, if they do not reach a pope -- if they don't vote for a pope before lunchtime here -- so in the next couple of hours we'll know this because we'll see black smoke, and then they would go for lunch. That is where then further conversations happen.

And how does the pressure build? I understand this could go on as long as they need it to go on but there is also the desire on their part -- at least we've heard from cardinals that this be a swift process. You hit lunch today. Certainly, you've only been going a day and a half. However, what is that pressure on them?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION CONTRIBUTOR: Well remember, they've been in days of meetings, so they've done that as well. Then they've gone through all of the prayer and this process. So even though it's only the third vote -- I mean, for them -- and they're old men -- they are tired. As we heard, the food at Santa Marta is not considered the best and they blame Pope Francis for that for simplifying the menu.

And so what the conversation will be, I think, at lunch if there is more of a consensus building. So by this third vote if one candidate if gaining but they haven't gotten to the two-thirds majority yet, obviously, well them maybe they begin to talk to each other and they say well, maybe we should compromise on this, and he wouldn't be this bad because he's good in this area. So maybe our candidate is not going to be able to do it. We start voting.

[05:50:18]

I mean, that kind of stuff begins to happen, especially among friends or language groups or certain cliques. And that kind of conversation is natural. It's not that it's not permitted because you're not -- it's not undue influence. You're just talking to your brother cardinals and you're trying to reach a kind of consensus. So it's a normal kind of lunchtime meal. Well, not normal for us but normal for cardinals.

And I do think that they would prefer it to be over sooner rather than later, and that's kind of a human thing, I think.

BURNETT: Yes. And I -- and I will say also it's worth just reflecting in this moment where so many people in politics aren't able to reach a consensus with anybody if they don't fully agree and just want to throw the other person's point of view away. To think that you could have people with such disparate points of view, as many of them do, to come to a consensus is something to celebrate for all of us.

All right. Well, thanks for joining us. Our special coverage continues here. Stay with us throughout the day for the very latest here from Rome. "CNN THIS MORNING" starts after this.

LAMB: Smoke! Smoke! Smoke!

BURNETT: Look out! Hold on.

LAMB: Black smoke. Black smoke. BURNETT: OK. All right. Everybody can see this. This appears very clearly to be black smoke --

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: -- which would indicate, Christopher Lamb, that this is the second vote of the morning --

LAMB: Correct.

BURNETT: -- and they have not reached a consensus on a pope.

LAMB: Yes. This is telling us -- it's clearly black smoke -- that there have now been three ballots in this conclave and the cardinals have not reached a consensus on who should be pope.

Now, we were, of course, talking about if it was going to be a frontrunner that maybe the white smoke would come soon. It would still be very soon to elect a pope. Of course, Benedict XVI was elected after four ballots, Francis after five ballots, John Paul II after eight ballots. This, though, is after three ballots -- black smoke. I think probably to be expected --

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: -- that the cardinals have still not been able to come to a consensus.

BURNETT: And to point out, Kim, as we are looking at this very clearly black smoke billowing out of the Sistine Chapel, this means that there have been two rounds of voting today. They have failed to reach a consensus on a pope though, as Christopher points out. Last time around it would have been this afternoon and this evening -- the last two times -- where they reached a consensus, so it still could happen today, but it hasn't happened as of yet.

And now they will break for lunch, which means they're going to be able to talk. They're going to be able to talk this through and see where they are.

DANIELS: Exactly. So it's interesting to me that this is even before noon here Rome time, so it happened pretty quickly. These votes went pretty quickly this morning. Last night was very long.

BURNETT: Yes.

DANIELS: There was meditation and other things. They are moving. They are in the process of just voting right now.

And as Chris said, it's pretty much expected this would have been black. I think we might expect something either tonight in one of the votes that's taking place in the afternoon and evening --

BURNETT: Yes.

DANIELS: -- or tomorrow. BURNETT: Two votes will come this afternoon.

Fascinating though the crowd here because you still have thousands and thousands of people filling in. Forty-five thousand people here last night. We're not yet there. They're coming in. I can just eyeball it. There's not as many people quite yet.

However, when the smoke came out, at first just this breath -- maybe, maybe, maybe.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: But then everybody here very quickly realized that smoke was black.

LAMB: Yes. There's huge anticipation as people -- it seems everyone in Rome is on chimney watch or smoke watch. And so I think -- I imagine tonight there will be a lot of anticipation as they move into --

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: -- what will be the fourth and fifth ballots, the time that the last two conclaves have come to a decision.

I do think it's significant, as Kim was saying, that they seem to have got through the morning votes quicker. They've got into their stride.

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: Last night I think things took a while sort of getting into the process with a lot of --

BURNETT: The conspiracies were flying last night --

LAMB: They were flying.

BURNETT: -- about what was going on in there.

LAMB: But I think it was a --

BURNETT: Yeah.

LAMB: -- long reflection from Cardinal Cantalamessa that kept them for --

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: -- longer than they would have expected.

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: They seem to be in their stride now. And yeah, this is coming in good time.

BURNETT: One can only imagine the roar that will happen when there is white smoke. Father Beck sitting here. People weren't -- you know, they didn't know exactly when there would be smoke, but suddenly it was clear that it was black.

But as Christpher is saying, this afternoon here in these next hours, the last two popes were chosen and so many in the square are acutely aware of that and are waiting, as we literally can see people just flooding in.

BECK: Yes, and it is quite possible that there will be greater crowds this afternoon because again, it's possible we --

BURNETT: Yeah.

[05:55:00]

BECK: -- will have a pope by this afternoon. No promises here.

I'm glad to see that the smoke is more definable than in the past. It's definitely black. So hopefully --

BURNETT: Yes.

BECK: -- we will know it's definitely white. There's no grayness about the smoke this time.

And I think that maybe we'll see some building of consensus now as we move forward. Now, maybe not, but we don't know. But I think the people gathered there are really excited about who we're going to have, as we all are too.

We want to know if this person is going to continue in the line of Pope Francis. If they're going to take us in another direction. What will that direction be? What kind of issues will they want to address? What will their personality be? Will they have a smile? Will they be dower?

I mean, we have all of these kind of questions on what kind of pope is going to lead us for these next number of years --

BURNETT: Yes.

BECK: -- and it's a great anticipation.

BURNETT: And as we watch the smoke, Christopher, just to be clear, they have each cast a ballot. The ballot goes in the urn, or the chalice and it's counted, it's recounted, and then burned. They add in the special chemicals -- more coal-based -- to get the dark black smoke.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: They have lactose perhaps to make it more white.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: And then -- I mean, you know, literally a cardinal pushing it in there, right, stoking that fire to cause this billowing smoke.

LAMB: Yes. Well, a tradition that goes back hundreds of years. In the past they didn't have these -- the use of these chemicals to send up the smoke signal. And now, of course, there is important -- it's very important to be clear that the smoke is either black or white.

Of course, Benedict XVI -- when he was elected there was a genuine uncertainty about whether the smoke --

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: -- was black or white or a bit of gray.

BURNETT: Even with Francis it was gray. It was --

Father Del Brocco, you know, it's -- so now they -- as the smoke is coming out, we can imagine they -- the cardinals -- 133 of them -- are going over to Santa Marta for a lunch, and for meetings, and for conversations. But absolutely no awareness from any of them about what is happening out here in the outside world or coverage of the conclave in any way.

FATHER ENZO DEL BROCCO, ROMAN CATHOLIC PASSIONIST PRIEST: Yes, and I'm sure that they're kind of focused, as was said by others. I think that they will want to stay there long. And I think the conversations will really try to understand more of having a more -- a better consensus but also gives time also to people to ask more questions about people they may not know.

Because yes, it's true that there are many languages but there are also several cardinals who speak more than a language. So that can help actually translate and allow the conversation to happen maybe at the table where they are eating -- sharing the meal.

And so I really hope that will help really this bond that can happen at their meals that can really help them reach their consensus as soon as possible because it's -- I think even though they don't see what's happening outside but I'm sure that they all know that there are people waiting for the election of a pope.

BURNETT: Of course.

DEL BROCCO: And I think the sooner the better.

BURNETT: And Christopher, I'm curious. I mean, obviously, if you -- if any cardinal were to leak -- and right now they're sequestered from their phones. But if anyone were to leak or anybody involved in preparing the food or being with them at this time were to leak, they're excommunicated.

LAMB: That's right.

BURNETT: Right? So excommunicated.

However, we find things out at times. We found out, for example, that Pope Francis -- the time -- right before he was pope when Ratzinger became pope -- was -- he was --

LAMB: He was the frontrunner, yeah.

BURNETT: He was the frontrunner. He came in second.

LAMB: Yeah.

BURNETT: And then he became pope.

So some things come out afterwards.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: Or, for example, last night we know that prayer that was supposed to go 15 minutes when 50.

LAMB: Yes, yes.

BURNETT: So sometimes information does come out.

LAMB: Yes, it does, and often it takes a few years to come out.

In 2005, there was an Italian cardinal who wrote sort of private diaries that he then -- they were leaked anonymously about what happened inside the conclave. So there is a way of piecing things together several years after.

Of course, Francis, in 2005, or Bergoglio as he was --

BURNETT: Yeah.

LAMB: -- he received 40 votes -- enough to block Joseph Ratzinger. However, he asked that is votes to be transferred to Ratzinger so that he could be elected to stop a sense of a -- of a paralysis.

BURNETT: And something like that could happen now. There's also talk because, of course, social media has nothing to do but talk about this, of whether there would be a group trying to block a progressive pope or, you know, what's really happening with voting blocs right now. And, of course, we don't know.

DANIELS: We don't know. We don't know what's going on. We do know because they're human beings that they're going to back and have lunch and talk. That they'll talk to their friends -- people they're close to. And they'll be thinking again about the future of the church. What kind of leader do they want, do we want to lead us into and bring the gospel of Jesus Christ to the world today.