Return to Transcripts main page
First Move with Julia Chatterley
President Trump Attacks French President Emmanuel Macron Ahead Of Their Showdown At The NATO Meeting In London; Trump Hints There Is No Deadline To A Deal With China; Donald Trump And Emmanuel Macron Talk To Reporters Ahead Of NATO Summit. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired December 03, 2019 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:14]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher, in for my colleague, Julia Chatterley, and here is what you
need to know.
Tough talking President Trump attacks French President Emmanuel Macron ahead of their showdown at the NATO meeting in London.
And a trade deal in 2020. Trump hints there is no deadline to a deal with China.
And victory lap. The President takes credit for the reform of NATO.
It is Tuesday, and this is FIRST MOVE.
All right, welcome to FIRST MOVE. It is so good to have you with us on this very busy Tuesday morning here in the United States.
We are awaiting the start of President Trump's meeting with his French counterpart, Emmanuel Macron in London. We will of course bring that to
you as soon as it happens.
But let's start with a quick check of the U.S. markets for you. All of the major Wall Street indices are on track for a weaker open. Right now, you
see that Dow futures are down about 250 points. Investors are waiting through a number of trade related developments.
President Trump said at a news conference just a few hours ago that it actually might be better -- he said it might be better to wait until after
next year's presidential election after November 2020 to strike a deal with China.
He also threatened 100 percent tariffs on some French products in retaliation for Paris's planned tech tax, which he says would hurt Silicon
Valley.
In the meantime, report say the U.S. is considering tariffs on a wider range of E.U. goods in the long running Airbus subsidy case. These are
certainly challenging developments for a market that is already sensitive to negative trade headlines. We've seen a number this week already.
Remember, this month's biggest trade challenge comes less than two weeks from now when new U.S. tariffs against China are set to kick in around the
middle of December.
We had a shaky start to December trading. All the major indices fell by about one percent on Monday, weak manufacturing data and President Trump's
decision to slap metal tariffs -- steel and aluminum tariffs -- on Brazil and Argentina helped trigger that selloff. So you've got lots of
uncertainty for us to unpack.
But I want to begin now with the NATO Summit in London. The stage was set at a freewheeling press conference in London where President Trump touched
on everything from NATO and North Korea to impeachment, and of course, his criticism of Emmanuel Macron. That's ahead of their meeting in just a few
minutes from now.
Max Foster join us live now from London. So Max, I think if you look at this more broadly, you can see that President Trump has certainly changed
his tune when it comes to NATO. He has gone from being its staunchest critic to now, quite a significant defender of the Alliance. What's
changed?
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it was what Emmanuel Macron said going into this. He was critical of the way
America pulled troops in Northern Syria and that allowed Turkish troops to go in. It was all done outside NATO and Macron saying effectively, these
sorts of moves on America's behalf mainly left NATO brain dead.
Donald Trump didn't like that. He has said those comments were nasty and that is the tone which was set before this bilateral between Macron and
Trump.
So it's going to be really interesting. It would be great to be a fly on the wall in there. We're going to try and get a sense of the tone as they
speak to the cameras, hopefully. We don't know exactly what we're going to see.
But these two men really are the center of this NATO Summit because they have very different views. Donald Trump now really supporting the NATO
Alliance, even though he wants to sort out the funding, whereas Macron wants a whole rethink about what it stands for going into the future. It
wants an independent group of experts to really look at that.
So it's going to be very interesting to see what comes out of that bilateral meeting -- Zain.
ASHER: And Max, just in terms of President Trump sort of wading into and interfering in U.K. politics. He has done his best his to stay out of it,
although he did say that, I think this is the President's words, I think Boris is very capable, and he will do a good job.
But contrary to what he has said in the past, he did sort of try to do his best to stay out of U.K. politics ahead of that election in just a few
days.
FOSTER: Yes, he is not a very popular figure here. There's recent poll from YouGov saying two-thirds of Brits don't think well of President Trump.
So if you're a candidate in the current general election, you don't necessarily want to be associated with someone who is unpopular amongst the
British voters. Is that why there isn't a bilateral planned between Boris Johnson and Donald Trump? Well, you know, no one is confirming that's the
reason, but it's very unusual for the host leader not to have a bilateral with a visiting U.S. President, who is the most powerful man in the world.
[09:05:13]
FOSTER: So a lot of people reading something into that, although we will see, I'm sure, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump together. There's a
reception here hosted by the Queen a bit later on, and after that, there's another reception hosted by Boris Johnson at 10 Downing Street.
So we'll see images of them together, but I think people are going to be pouring over them to try to figure out the body language and whether or not
Boris Johnson really is keeping his distance from President Trump today.
ASHER: And Max, there had been some fears that with a U.K.-U.S. trade deal that perhaps the N.H.S. could be up for sale, it could be privatized. Just
walk us through -- President Trump actually addressed that -- just walk us through what he said about that.
FOSTER: Well, he effectively said that's not the case. He dismissed it. Although you know, as ever with Donald Trump you don't get the detail in
these moments to really look at it, but Jeremy Corbyn has very much used Donald Trump against Boris Johnson because as you suggested earlier,
they've got this traditionally, or previously very close relationship. They get along very well.
Boris Johnson has talked a lot about a post Brexit world, where a U.S. trade deal would be essential. He has got the in with Boris Johnson. He
can provide that.
But Jeremy Corbyn, the opposition leader saying, you've got to be very careful about this trade deal, and Boris Johnson's relationship with Donald
Trump, because effectively, it will open up the N.H.S. to investment from U.S. companies and will increase prices and will damage the National Health
Service, reduce the power -- the purchasing power -- of the National Health Service.
So he has used that against Boris Johnson, which is one of the reasons why Boris Johnson might want to avoid Donald Trump not to give Jeremy Corbyn
more ammunition in that argument.
ASHER: All right, Max Foster, live for us there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
As well as attacking Emmanuel Macron over NATO, Mr. Trump took aim at France's planned tech tax.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Emmanuel had an idea, let's tax those companies. Well, they are American companies. I'm not going to
let people take advantage of American companies because if anyone is going to take advantage of the American companies, it's going to be us. It's not
going to be France.
And so we are taxing, as you know, we are taxing their wines and everything else and we have a very, very big tax to put on them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Melissa Bell joins us live now from Paris. So Melissa, you had the President there. He is retaliating. Bruno Le Maire actually commented on
this. What did he say and what did he say about how the E.U. might end up responding to this?
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, he was responding this morning on the French radio, Zain, to comments that came out of Washington
specifically out of its Trade Representative warning that the United States might retaliate to this tax on the tech giants with its own tariffs, this
time on goods worth 2.4 billion euros.
Now these are things like cheeses, perfumes, handbags -- all sorts of things that could be slapped with a 100 percent trade tariff coming into
the United States.
Bruno Le Maire said this was not the kind of thing that you expected from an ally. So you can be sure, Zain, that whatever else is said at this
forthcoming bilateral, tariffs are going to be at the heart of it.
This is a relationship that has been extremely interesting, the one between the American President and the French President to watch develop. We have
seen it cool and it cooled on the Elysees' part specifically, Zain, because of those threats of tariffs.
Now, at the heart of the American anger is of course, that tax that France has been the first country in the European Union to apply a tax on the
revenues rather than on the profits of the tech giants. What it has been trying to do is find a way to tax the revenues of those companies who
choose to put themselves in European countries where taxes are lower, a three percent tax that will be retroactive to the beginning of this year
and that will therefore bring in 400 million euros to the French state.
That is at the heart of the United States' anger. You can be sure that it is likely to come up in what promises to be a fairly interesting meeting
between Donald Trump and Emmanuel Macron in a short while.
ASHER: And Melissa, obviously, a divided NATO certainly doesn't help the Alliance at all. How much pressure is Emmanuel Macron under as he goes
into this meeting with President Trump to walk back those comments, referring to the Alliance as brain dead?
BELL: Well, this is something that he has come under a lot of fire from -- from the Polish leader, from the Turkish leader and now from the President
of the United States.
But the irony, of course, Zain was that Emanuel Macron had made those comments just a few weeks ago because of the plain distancing that Donald
Trump had been doing over the course of the last few years since his election with regards to transnational organizations, and in particular, to
the NATO Alliance.
Emmanuel Macron's point had been to say, look, Europe needs to take stock of what's happening here and needs to listen to what Donald Trump is
saying. And the fact the United States is no longer the steadfast partner that it was and think about its own security.
So judging on Emmanuel Macron's previous performances and what appears to be his temperament, I suspect that he will not be walking back too far. He
will probably be putting into context those remarks.
[09:10:10]
BELL: It was a wakeup call, really, to the rest of Europe to say, look, the world is changing. The Alliance needs to keep up and I think that's
what we're likely to hear from him.
But it was really interesting hearing Donald Trump laying into him specifically over those NATO comments. They he had been couched,
particularly in the terms of Donald Trump having distanced himself from the Alliance.
So how those two men take on the Alliance and how the two of them present it once their bilateral has taken place will also be extremely interesting
to watch -- Zain.
BELL: All right. Melissa Bell live for us there in Paris. Thank you so much.
And while visiting London, President Trump said it might be better to wait until after until after the November presidential election to strike a
trade deal with China.
The markets have responded accordingly in terms of futures. Christine Romans is joining us. So Christine, just walk us through this. Is this
just a negotiation strategy just to put pressure on the Chinese or do the markets genuinely have cause for concern here?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS: Well, look, the markets are taking it as word today because the President who has said famously that
trade wars are easy to win, a year and a half in, trade wars are not easy to win.
In June, we heard from the Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin that they were 90 percent there. October 11th, we were told there was a Phase 1 deal that
they were working out the details of, and then they would sign that quickly. And then they were even talking about where there'd be a signing
ceremony. Right?
Well, we're just not -- we're not there and the President in London very clear, saying that he is comfortable with where he and the American
position is, and that there will only be a deal if he wants it. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The China trade deal is dependent on one thing. Do I want to make it? Because we are doing very well with China right now, and we can do
even better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: And the way the markets are treating doing very well with China right now, they're taking that as the President is comfortable with the
wave after wave after wave of tariffs on imports from China and there is a new deadline in just over 13 days on December 15th, there will be $156
billion worth of consumer goods made in China that will be taxed on entry into the United States.
And those are goods that would hit consumers probably more directly in the pocket than other tranches of tariffs we've seen.
The Chinese want those tariffs not to happen and they want current tariffs rolled back. The White House team -- the White House team has signaled in
the past that they've been frustrated by the Chinese reneging on some of their agreements and the Chinese wanting more than they're willing to give
up.
So here you have a President now for the first time saying that he doesn't have a timeline, and he is comfortable with tariffs where they are and
willing to wait into 2020.
One thing that people around the President have told me in the past that I think is pretty interesting, Zain, if you look at stocks since his trade
war began, he doesn't buy the globalist gloom and doom that this has been so terrible -- his tariffs.
He really continues to toe the line that stocks are up since his trade tariffs began and the economy is still growing at 2.1 percent. Certainly,
not the supercharged economy he promised, but the economy is still hanging in here, and he does not -- it appears -- does not buy into the idea that
his tariffs and their uncertainty are damaging to the American economy.
And even today, this morning, just a few hours ago, he seemed to talk over, talk past the pain of American farmers saying he has paid them $20 billion
and that's come straight from Chinese tariffs, and they have been made whole. I think some farmers would disagree with that, but the President
seems to be signaling he is comfortable with where things are right now in the trade war with China -- Zain.
ASHER: All right. Christine Romans live for us. Thank you so much.
Okay, so these are the stories making headlines around the world. In the U.S., Democrats in Congress are expected to take another step towards
impeaching President Trump. The House Intelligence Committee will vote on its report detailing whether Mr. Trump used his position to try to extract
political favors from the Ukrainian President.
The report set to be released later Tuesday, then goes to the House Judiciary Committee when new hearings get underway on Wednesday.
Suzanne Malveaux is live for us in Washington. So Suzanne, we're expecting this report is going to be released publicly. What are we expecting from
it?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zain, what a Democratic aide who is involved in the Impeachment Inquiry told me is that it really
is all about the messaging now, keeping the argument very simple, very plain and clear for the American people to understand.
Very shortly, we'll all have a chance to read this report after the House Intelligence Committee releases it. There is a key vote that must be taken
later today to make sure that it is okay with Committee before it goes to the House Judiciary Committee, but it is very much expected that the
Democrats are going to lay out their plan and their reasoning for impeaching the President.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff announcing the committee's impeachment report will be made public today after his
committee votes to send the report to the Judiciary Committee.
For weeks, House Democrats have investigated whether President Trump abused his power when he held up military aid to Ukraine in a White House meeting
to pressure the country to announce investigations into his political rivals.
[09:15:13]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): We also feel a sense of urgency. This is a President who has sought foreign intervention in U.S. elections twice now.
This is a threat to the integrity of the upcoming election, and we don't feel it should wait.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX (voice over): An Intel Committee official telling CNN, members of the committee have 24 hours to review the report before voting tonight
whether to move forward with the next phase of impeachment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHIFF: That's not the end of our investigation, so even while Judiciary does its work, we will continue investigating. We're continuing to issue
subpoenas. We're continuing to learn new information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX (voice over): As the internal debate over whether to expand the Articles to include findings in the Mueller report continues, the Judiciary
Committee prepares for its first hearing tomorrow.
But House Republicans preemptively releasing a 123-page report defending the President, claiming the Democrats have no evidence of bribery,
extortion or any high crime or misdemeanor, and saying President Trump delaying aid in a White House meeting was entirely prudent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): The President has, for the longest time, talked about his concern about foreign aid, his concern about corruption in
Ukraine, his concern about other European countries not doing enough to help us. So he had those valid concerns. A new guy gets elected. He
said, let's see if this guy is legit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX (voice over): But the G.O.P. report completely ignores significant and incriminating testimony against President Trump. Democrats
dismissing their rebuttal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JACKIE SPEIER (D-CA): I think it is poppycock. It was very clear what the President wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX (voice over): And although President Trump's most ardent supporters continue to peddle conspiracy theories --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Senator Kennedy, do you think that the Ukrainians interfered in the 2016 election?
REP. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): I do. I do, and I'm not the only one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX (voice over): Sources familiar with the matter tell CNN the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee looked into it and found no
evidence to support that claim.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And tomorrow, the House Judiciary Committee will hold its first public hearing tomorrow morning. That's when they're going to have four
constitutional scholars talking about what they believe is the basis for impeachment or not impeaching the President.
There are Democratic members of that committee who are holding a mock hearing today to practice and prepare for those key witnesses tomorrow --
Zain.
ASHER: All right, Susan Malveaux live for us. Thank you.
At least four people have died and tens of thousands have been ordered to evacuate in the Philippines after a powerful typhoon called the Typhoon
Komori slammed into the country's most populous island packing wings of around 215 kilometers per hour.
Hundreds of flights have been canceled and the largest airport remains closed.
Climate activist, Greta Thunberg arrived in Lisbon, Portugal after a three- week voyage across the Atlantic on a carbon neutral catamaran. She will be heading to the Spanish capital, Madrid for the ongoing COP 25 Summit, where
the U.N. announced that the current decade is likely to set a new 10-year temperature record.
Their bromance could be over. The world is watching closely a potential clash between Washington and Paris as President Trump hold a meeting with
French leader, Emmanuel Macron. More from the NATO Summit coming up after this break. You're watching FIRST MOVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:21:34]
ASHER: All right, welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Let's take another check at the markets ahead of the opening bell. U.S. stocks are set to fall for a
third straight session amid new fears that a U.S.-China trade deal won't get done anytime soon.
In fact, President Trump actually said it could be until November 2020 before a trade deal gets signed between the U.S. and China.
The trade dispute with France is also unsettling investors as well. You see Dow futures there are down about 300 points. Trump is threatening
tariffs on almost two and a half billion dollars' worth of popular French imports in retaliation for Paris's planned digital tax that will hit some
U.S. firms.
France says it will retaliate and it will get the E.U. to retaliate if the tariffs go through. Against this backdrop, French and U.K. stocks are down
more than one percent. German stocks are flat as you can see there.
Now back to London, President Trump is meeting Emmanuel Macron right now. Earlier Mr. Trump attacked the French President over his comments that NATO
is experiencing brain death.
Alexander Vershbow is joining us now. He is a former NATO Deputy Secretary General, and before that he was Washington's Ambassador to NATO. Thank you
so much for being with us.
So obviously, NATO is contending with so much. The Alliance is divided. There are issues between the U.S. and France. It's got the rise of China.
How does NATO adapt, do you think to this changing global landscape we're dealing with right now?
ALEXANDER VERSHBOW, FORMER NATO DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL: Well, it's true that NATO has some serious political issues to resolve, and these have just
been magnified by the rhetoric that's flying between President Trump and President Macron.
It's somewhat paradoxical because NATO as a military organization, has been getting stronger and stronger, and Donald Trump can even take some credit
for that, even though he has never been too fond of NATO.
But NATO's military capability, its deterrence against Russia, its ability to move its forces to anywhere in the world -- all of those things are much
stronger and the U.S. can take some credit.
But NATO is only as strong as its political cohesion and unity, and that's where this Summit is becoming a very important event to try to overcome
some of these differences, these recriminations and agree on some kind of review of what NATO should be doing in the future.
If the allies can unite on the present, maybe they can unite on one of the future priorities for the Alliance.
ASHER: See normally, it is President Trump's comments that sort of grabs headlines, but this time, it's the French President's comments that sort of
has riled people up. What do you make of what Emmanuel Macron said that the Alliance is brain dead?
VERSHBOW: Well, he was, I think, reacting to what happened in Northern Syria and the U.S. decision to pull out and allow the Turks to attack the
Kurds without any consultation with France or anybody else who has joined us in the coalition against ISIS.
So I think he was basically saying that sort of the, the head of NATO, the United States wasn't exercising the proper leadership or coordination and
this is something that a lot of people have been thinking privately since Trump took over.
That being said, it may not in the end, be a good thing as Trump --
ASHER: OK, I have to interrupt you because we've got live pictures with the U.S. President the French President speaking. Let's listen now.
[09:25:04]
TRUMP: ... I want to pay my respects to the great warriors that you lost in Mali -- 13 in a helicopter. It was very sad. I've gotten a report on
it. We talked about it. And please give my condolences to the families and to France. And they're great fighters. You've done a fantastic job in
that whole area. It's a tough area. So we appreciate it very much.
And we'll be talking about a lot of things, including NATO and including trade. We do a lot of trade with France, and we have a minor dispute. I
think we'll probably be able to work it out. But we have a big trade relationship, and I'm sure that, within a short period of time, things will
be looking very rosy, we hope.
And that's usually the case with the two of us. We get it worked out. We've had a lot of good -- a lot of good things. We've done a lot of good
things together, as partners. Our countries have been partners in many good ventures, including some having to do with radical Islam and others.
And it's always worked out. So I look forward to our discussion.
We made a lot of progress in our first 25 minutes, and we intend to make a lot of progress in our next hour, maybe hour and a half.
So thank you very much, my friend.
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): Thank you very much, Mr. President. Once again, here we are in London as I want to thank
him for his condolences and what he said for our soldiers and Parisians today and what happened in Mali.
And thank you for the solidarity and also the participation on the territory. The President said we have started our discussions first of all
on the bilateral plan, economic trade and we have started to talk about things in Biarritz once again. We're talking about the digital world,
trade and the measures we have taken for our economies.
There is also NATO. And once again, we've talked about international affairs, and clearly during the Summit, this concerns, also different
members of NATO within the hearts of the international coalition, and what we are doing, as I've said repeatedly, the cooperation between our two
countries either military, economic, diplomatic are important and sometimes we're not always in agreement, such as climate change.
But on the fight against terrorism and the basic commitment of our soldiers, our teams work hand in hand. And I think I can say we share the
end -- the objective -- and we've been able to find a solution for the problems that we're facing. I am very happy to have this exchange, and to
shortly the progress about things during this Summit and vital questions for which have not been discussed so far.
Europe, the problems of threats on the borders and how also to act more effectively in the face of our enemies such as terrorism, because everyone
must be very clear on the objectives. That's it.
TRUMP: Thank you very much.
QUESTION: President Trump, do you have a better understanding of what President Macron was saying about NATO?
TRUMP: Well, we just began discussing NATO, and what I'm liking about NATO is that a lot of countries have stepped up, I think, really at my behest.
And to, also, yourself, you're close to the level. But they've stepped up and they've put up a lot of money. I told you, it was $130 million -- $130
billion. And that's a lot.
And they're now stepping up again. It's going to be $400 billion over a very short -- we have commitments for $400 billion. And we just left the
Secretary General. And he -- he's got some things that are very important.
And I discussed with him the flexibility, so that we have it not just with one area of the world -- you and I discuss this all the time -- we have all
areas of the world, because NATO is a lot different than it was. And now it's certainly a lot different over the last three years.
So we have a lot of countries stepping up and putting up a lot of money. The number, as of this moment, is exactly $131 billion -- that's a year.
[09:30:09]
TRUMP: And that's a tremendous amount of money, but it's not enough. And they also raised and have commitments for $400 billion.
So NATO, which was really heading in the wrong direction three years ago, it was heading down. If you look at a graph, it was to a point where I
don't think they could have gone on much longer. Now, it's actually very strong and getting stronger. Many people are committed to that two
percent. And ultimately, I think the two percent will be raised.
And the President and I, I think, feel that we need more flexibility -- and I think we both agree on that -- so that we can use it for other things,
not just looking at one specific country.
You know, a lot of people say it was meant to look at, originally, the Soviet Union -- now Russia. But we also have other things to look at,
whether it's radical Islamic terrorism, whether it's the tremendous growth of China. There are a lot of other things.
So NATO is becoming different than it was, much bigger than it was, and much stronger than it was because people are now fulfilling their
commitments.
There are some countries that aren't fulfilling their commitment, and those countries are going to be dealt with. Maybe I'll deal with them from a
trade standpoint. Maybe I'll deal with them in a different way. I'll work something out where they have to pay.
But, you know, we don't want to have people delinquent. We don't have -- I don't really think it's fair for us to be involved -- including France, by
the way -- to be involved, and you have countries that aren't paying their way. They -- you know, they're less than one percent. You have a couple
that are less than one percent. Not fair.
So NATO has made a lot of progress over the last three years, and the word flexibility is very important. They're not just looking at one area now;
they're looking at the world. And that's very important. To me, it's very important.
Please.
MACRON: I know that my statements created some reactions and shake a little bit a lot of people. I do stand by it. And I have to say, when you
look at what NATO is and should be: First of all, this is a burden share. And President Trump just reminded you of some figures and the fact that
this is perfectly true that the U.S. overinvested, decade after decade, and it is number one, by far.
And I do share this statement. That's why I'm a strong supporter of a stronger European component in NATO, which is exactly what we have done.
So, in terms of cost sharing, we are investing 1.9 percent of our GDP. We are increasing our GDP. We will be at running.
But when we speak about NATO, it's not just about money. We have to be respectful with are our soldiers. The first burden we share, the first
cost we pay, is our soldiers' lives.
And I do believe that, in such circumstances, we do pay what we have to pay for collective security.
When I look at the situation in Syria, in Iraq, but as well as Sahel, France is definitely present. It's my first point, is that we have, today,
strategy clarifications to be done. It's impossible just to say, we have to put money, we have to put soldiers. We have to be clear on the
fundamentals of what NATO should be. And this is not the case today. What about peace in Europe? I want clarification about that.
After the decision of the end of the INF Treaty, we have to build something new. Because now this is a risk for Germany, France, and a lot of European
countries to have new missiles coming from Russia, exposing us.
We need such a clarification. And I want the European component to be part of the future negotiations of such a new INF Treaty.
When we speak about the enemy, I would say, of the Alliance, what is the objective? To protect our partners against external threats. And France
will do it, and we will have full solidarity vis-a-vis Eastern and Northern states in Europe.
But the common enemy today are the terrorist groups, as we mentioned. And I'm sorry to say that we don't have the same definition of terrorism around
the table.
When I look at Turkey, they now are fighting against those who fight with us, who fought with us, shoulder-to-shoulder, against ISIS. And sometimes
they work with ISIS forces.
This is an issue, and this is a strategic issue. If we just have discussion about what we pay, and we don't have clear discussions about the
situation, we are not serious; we are not serious for our soldiers, we are not serious for our people. This is the very reason of my statements.
[09:35:07]
MACRON: I do believe we need strategic clarifications: How to build long- term peace in Europe. Who is the enemy today? And let's be clear and work all together on that.
I know that we do share exactly the same view. Having less business exposure of the U.S. means more European investment and more value on the
European side. I do agree. Being strict and very efficient against terrorist groups mean having clear, clear definition of these groups and no
ambiguity. I think we do that.
TRUMP: Well, one thing I will also -- I'd like to say that you've been really doing a great job in Africa, and you've been very much involved
there, more than most. And that's been fantastic. I appreciate you saying the United States, for decades, have been paying, really, way, way
disproportionately too much for NATO. And you'd have other countries paying far too little that are very directly benefitted by it and by the
United States involvement.
And we're changing that around somewhat, and it's very important. But we're a very important player. I think, without us, NATO certainly is not
the same thing, as we've discussed and discussed it at length. This morning, we discussed it with Secretary General Stoltenberg. But we're
behind you 100 percent. And all of the money that's been raised and all of these countries that are all of the sudden putting up money, it's a great
thing to see.
But we do have a great -- we really have a different objective, I think, right now. We're looking at a much bigger picture. And that includes --
well, it includes -- you mentioned Iraq, but it really includes Iran, too. I think that if you look at what's going on in Iran, they have massive
riots. They're having protests all over the country. And they're killing a lot of people. Everybody knows that. That's why they turned off their
Internet systems, so nobody can find out.
But if the media would go there -- and it's, I think, very hard for the media to go there, frankly, right now. But they're killing a lot of
people.
But NATO has come a long way in three years, and it's something that we're very proud of, because we're with them. NATO serves a fantastic function
if everybody is involved. If they're not involved -- and I really believe that the President is very much involved and likes the idea of NATO, but he
wants it also to be utilized properly. If it's not utilized properly -- we all agree, right? That's no good.
So we've had a very good discussion. A lot of people -- and we're meeting with a lot of countries later, as you know. And they're really stepping
up. For the most part, they're all stepping up. We have one or two that aren't, and we'll have to deal with them in a different way.
Maybe we -- as I said, we'll deal with them on trade. We have a lot of power with respect to trade. They make a fortune with the United States,
and then they don't pay their bills. That's no good. But NATO has come a long way in three years, and it's become very powerful. I think very, very
powerful.
And it's become, I think, a much fairer statement in terms of the United States, because we're able to go down a little bit. We were paying four to
4.3 percent of the largest GDP ever. Nobody has ever had a GDP like we have right now, and nobody has come close.
And other people were paying one percent; some people were paying less than one percent of a very small GDP. It's not fair. And if they get attacked,
we protect them. But it's not fair. So a lot of changes have been made.
Phil, go ahead.
QUESTION: Yes. Mr. President, what is your message to President Macron about America's tech companies? And what will your process be in
determining what additional products from France you might apply tariffs to?
TRUMP: Right. Well, we're working on that right now. We have discussed it. I think we'll be able to work something out, I hope. And maybe not.
Maybe we'll do it through taxing. You know, we could work it out easily through taxing.
But the techs -- you know, they're American companies -- the tech companies that you're talking about. They're not my favorite people because they're
not exactly for me, but that's okay. I don't care. They're American companies.
And we want to tax American companies, Phil. That's important. We want to tax them. That's not for somebody else to tax them.
And, as the President knows, we tax wine and we have other taxes scheduled. But we'd rather not do that. But that's the way it would work. So it's
either going to work out, or we'll work out some mutually beneficial tax and the tax will be substantial and I'm not sure it's going to come to
that, but it might. It might.
QUESTION: Mr. President, has France committed to step up when it comes to taking back foreign fighters in Syria?
TRUMP: Well, I haven't asked that to the President today. I have over the period of time. We have a tremendous amount of captured fighters -- ISIS
fighters -- over in Syria, and they're all under lock and key. But many are from France, many are from Germany, many are from U.K. They're mostly
from Europe. And some of the countries are agreeing.
[09:40:09]
TRUMP: I have not spoken to the President about that. Would you like some nice ISIS fighters? I can give them to you. You can take -- you can take
everyone you can.
MACRON: Let's be serious: A very large number of fighters you have on the ground are ISIS fighters coming from Syria, from Iraq, and the region. It
is true that you have foreign fighters coming from Europe, but this is a tiny minority of the overall problem we have in the region.
And I think number-one priority -- because it's not yet finished -- is to get rid of ISIS and these terrorist groups. This is our number-one
priority. And it's not yet done. I'm sorry to say that. Yes, you still have fighters in this region -- in Syria, and now in Iraq -- and more and
more. And the whole destabilization of the region makes the situation more difficult to fix the situation against ISIS.
Second, some of these foreign fighters are being jailed in Iraq because of the deeds, precisely, they act in this very region. And we will have a
case-by-case approach. We have a humanitarian approach for children already organized, and we will have a case-by-case approach.
But, for me, the very first objective in the region is to finish war against ISIS. And don't make any mistake: Your number one problem are not
the foreign fighters. This is the ISIS fighters in the region. And you have more and more of these fighters due to the situation today.
TRUMP: This is why he's a great politician, because that was one of the greatest non-answers I've ever heard and that's okay.
MACRON: Because sometimes you can have some temptation from the U.S. side -- I don't say about President Trump, but it could be the press -- to say,
this is European responsibility. I'm sorry to say that.
We have some of our people, but if you don't look at the reality of the situation that is number one -- not to be ambiguous with these groups --
this is why we have started to discuss about our relations with Turkey. But I think any ambiguity with Turkey vis-a-vis these groups is detrimental
to everybody for the situation on the ground.
TRUMP: France has actually taken back some fighters. But we have a lot of fighters. We've captured a lot of people. And we have captured 100
percent of the Caliphate, but you know that that means that it's still -- they keep going and going.
We sent a small contingent in, and we wiped out another portion of ISIS. We don't want it to happen, to me, what happened with President Obama,
where it re-formed and then it became stronger than it was in the first place. So we don't want that to happen.
And, as I said before: We've taken the oil. We have the oil. So we have total control of the oil so that they're not going to be able to use that.
They use that oil to really -- to fuel up their wealth, to fuel up their money. That was their primary source of income. And they get
contributions. So we have, now, lists of where these contributions come from, which is very important. You have people contributing, if you can
believe it. Some of these people are wealthy people that make contributions. And we have lists of --
Well, we learned a lot. You know, when we got al Baghdadi, that was a great get. And when we killed him, we have a lot of information that I'm
revealing now for the first time, but we also got a lot of good information.
So a lot of things are happening. And France has been very helpful, I have to say that. They've been very, very helpful.
Okay? Go ahead. Any other questions, please?
QUESTION: (Speaking in foreign language).
MACRON (through translator): Questions that he asked this morning as you, with much pragmatism and with the desire to progress on subjects, what are
the interests of France in the European position, I don't think the concern of having an amicable and constructive relationship with the United States.
We talked about NATO. And I stated what was our position and it is assumed because we are in a state of operation clarity.
It was mentioned yesterday about digital tax and things were very clear. The first is why we reached this situation because today we have digital
companies regardless of their nationality who compete and 14 points less. It's not fair.
[09:45:01]
MACRON: We have on the basis of the proposal of the European Commission a digital tax that doesn't affect American companies. It allows to correct
this gap, this unfair gap. France did so with other countries, let's say with --
My first question is what happens to the U.K. the placed the same tax? Italy, Spain who have themselves did it on the proposal of the Commission.
If we are serious, all of these countries have got to be treated in the same way. We're in a phase that just about to start about discussions that
will take place over the next few weeks and with President Trump, I think we can sort out this situation.
The previous situation is to have a truly unilateral tax that allows not to make any distinction which we shall see in our talks over the next few
weeks, but I've got the impression that France and so, the Commission expressed itself this morning to provide its support and Europe -- there
must be an escalation. And I'm sure a solution will be found together.
So it's not up to me to comment on such and such a proposal, but on my side, I'm determined to defend the interests of our friends and Europe's
interests with the greatest friendship for the United States and on the level of freedom also.
TRUMP: And I largely agree with that answer. I just have to say, though, you know, I came into a position where the European Union was making
anywhere from $100 billion to $150 billion a year in deficits to the United States. They were making it and we were losing it. And so we had to do
something that is fair, not severe -- I think fair. We're losing tremendous amounts of money.
As you know, the European Union is very strong on barriers. Barriers, meaning, certain of our products can't come in, including agricultural
product. It just can't come in. We can't sell it. And yet, the European Union sells openly to the United States, and, generally, untaxed or taxed
at a low level.
So these are problems that we're talking about. These are problems that we're working out. And, you know, the digital tax is the least of it. I
inherited a situation where the European Union -- which was formed, partially, for this reason; I guess, for a lot of reasons it was formed,
but partially to make better or take advantage of the United States. And they've done that very brilliantly. And, frankly, it's not right.
So, I've exposed it. A lot of people didn't know it. And we're doing things about it; we have no choice. Because the United States can't
continue to lose the kind of money that they've lost over the last -- literally, since the formation of the European Union. And I think we'll
work something out.
They want to talk, as you know. The new head wants to talk, who is supposed to be a very respected woman, very highly respected. And I look
forward to meeting her. They want to meet.
But we have a very unfair trade situation, where the U.S. loses a lot of money for many, many years with the European Union -- billions and billions
of dollars. I mean, to be specific, over $150 billion a year. So we don't want to be doing that.
And we -- we can make a deal. We could take a harsh approach. We could solve that problem instantaneously if we wanted to. But I don't want to do
that. These are friends of ours. These are people that we've had very extraordinary relationships with, and I do, personally. And I'm sure we
can work something out.
QUESTION: You mentioned earlier the Iran protests. Does the United States support these protestors in Iran?
TRUMP: I don't want to comment on that. But the answer is no. But I don't want to comment on that.
QUESTION: Mr. President, on Turkey, President Macron just said he wanted the United States to do more in terms of standing up to President Erdogan
and clarifying the terms of that relationship. Are you supportive of those efforts by other NATO Allies, or are you standing in the way of that?
TRUMP: Well, I can only say we have a very good relationship with Turkey and with President Erdogan -- I do. I can't speak for the President of
France. I mean, I -- we have a very good relationship.
We pulled our soldiers out and we said, you can patrol your own border now. I don't care who you do it with, but we're not going to have soldiers
patrolling the border that's been fought over for 2,000 years.
But we took our soldiers out. We put some of those soldiers around the oil, where we've captured the oil and taken the oil. And we have the oil.
But we've -- and we've brought some home, and we will be bringing some home. And we've sent some to other areas. Okay?
QUESTION: Sir --
[09:50:10]
TRUMP: But we have a very good relationship with Turkey.
QUESTION: Mr. President --
MACRON: And just, on Turkey, to be clear: We have a lot of cooperation with Turkey -- on security, on trade, migration. And so there is a full-
fledged agenda with the European Union and France.
I do respect all leaders, whatever they can say, even bad things about myself. I do respect, and I never insulted anybody.
But now, it's a question for this NATO Summit. I think we need clarification from the Turkish side. This is not us to qualify them in
what they are doing. But I do believe at least we have two clarifications to be asked: How is it possible to be a member of the Alliance, to work
with our office, to buy our materials, to be integrated, and to buy the S- 400 from Russians? Technically, it is not possible.
These clarifications to be provided by the Turkish President, as far as he wants to be part.
Secondly, I understand, from Turkey, that they want to block all the declarations of this Summit if we do not agree about their definition of
terrorist organizations -- qualifying YPG and the others as terrorist groups, which is not our definition.
These two points have to be clarified if they want to -- to be a serious member of the Alliance. I think so.
TRUMP: This is why we're -- this is really why we're having meetings. Those are our points. And we'll be discussing that with the President
today.
Yes.
QUESTION: Mr. President, will you issue sanctions on Turkey over their purchase of the S-400 missile system?
TRUMP: We're looking at it now and we're talking about it now. As you know, Turkey wanted to buy our Patriot system, and the Obama administration
wouldn't let them. And they only let them when they were ready to buy another system, which is not the same system.
But Turkey, for a long period of time, wanted very much to buy the Patriot system, which is our system, which is what NATO uses -- which is a great
system, which is the best system. But they wouldn't sell it to Turkey.
So, you know, there are two sides to the story. I have to say this. But we will be discussing that with Turkey in a little while. We'll be meeting
with Turkey in a little while, and also tomorrow.
MACRON: But to be clear about this point and to -- for you to have them: The fuller view -- they were discussing with the Europeans on SAMP/T, and
we accepted to sell the SAMP/T to them. So these decisions is not new. And one number the President explained, by the refusal of a few years ago
of the Americans not to sell that Patriots. It's their own decision, even having a European option, totally compliant with NATO. So they decided not
to be compliant with NATO.
QUESTION: Sir, Mr. President, Prime Minister Johnson, I believe, is organizing some sort of discussion later today about the Syria conflict.
Are you going to take part in that and meet with him? And if not, why?
TRUMP: Are you talking about Ambassador Johnson?
QUESTION: Boris Johnson.
QUESTION: Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister.
TRUMP: Oh, I thought you meant Woody Johnson.
QUESTION: No.
TRUMP: And I said, boy, he's really risen rapidly, Woody. Where is Woody? Is he here? He is not here. This is his house. I can't believe he's not
here.
Yes, we'll be meeting with Prime Minister Johnson in a little while. I'll be seeing him later on. We're going over to Number 10, which is a very
exciting place to be, as you know. And we'll be discussing a lot of different things. Yes.
QUESTION: And one other related question: The London Bridge attack from a few days ago, do you have any comment here? Your first day in London --
TRUMP: No, I don't have a comment on the London Bridge attack, other than to say that I was very proud of those people that grabbed him and did such
a good job, between the fire extinguishers and whatever else. It was an amazing job they did. And he was very violent; you could see that. I
mean, this was captured very much on tape.
I think the -- the way the -- I think they were British citizens -- the way they stepped up was incredible. That was really great.
So, a terrible thing. Terrible attack. A lot of people very badly hurt. I believe three or four killed. Is it four now, today? So, it's terrible.
It's a terrible thing. And I know it's an act of terrorism. It's been declared an act of terrorism. Radical Islamic terrorism, by the way. And
it's very bad. Very bad.
But I think the way they stepped up, to me, that was something very special. Okay?
QUESTION: Mr. Trump, a question on Russia. Mr. Macron says that Russia shouldn't be designated as an adversary of NATO. Do you agree with that?
Do you think Russia is the enemy? And, Mr. Macron, who is the enemy today?
[09:55:10]
TRUMP: I don't think he does feel that. I think we get along with Russia. I think we could get along with Russia. I think you feel we can get along
with Russia. We've discussed that before.
But certainly, we have to be prepared. Whether it's Russia or somebody else, we have to be prepared. But he and I have a pretty similar view on
that. I think we feel that we can get along with Russia. And I think it's a good thing to get along with Russia. And I campaigned on it.
I mean, I'd go into big stadiums; people like it. And I think the Russian people would like to see it, too. A lot of -- a lot of good can come of
it.
But the purpose of NATO is that, but the purpose of NATO can be much more. And that's where we're showing the flexibility over the last period of two
years. Okay?
MACRON (through translator): Today, when you look at the new historical situation and also our geography, the cyberattacks and the Ukrainian
crisis. Is the status quo the best of options? No, I believe not.
We must commit a procedure with method and preconditions to progress on the Ukrainian conflict and which we will do in Paris on the 9th of December on
the Normandy format to make progress on Ukraine and Russia to be able to defend a schedule an agenda where Europeans and the members of the Alliance
to find the procedures, the definitions of joint threats with Russia and escalation, it will take time.
But I think that if we on the one hand want stability in Europe and reduce conflict, it is important to have a strategic dialogue with Russia. We
must do so without naivety and the waves of history that as a European country, and having a lot of empathy for this country with regards to the
Baltic States, Poland and a few others, we know that is to protect ourselves against potential aggression.
And in that, we must show full visibility on the protection that the Alliance and Europe in this direction must and France will play its full
part.
Finally, if I think there is one joint enemy, it is terrorism, international terrorism, and Islamic terrorism in particular, let's be
clear over that which leads us to act together in the Levant and within the context of an international coalition, which is under U.S. responsibility,
but NATO is committed as you know, France is present and also that forces us to act in the Sahel.
QUESTION (through translator): Mr. President, we see you appear isolated on the European -- because of your attitude towards Russia and you can't
have a strong European defense and be a member of NATO. A lot of people you can't have your cake and eat it. But how --
MACRON (through translator): With a complicated political situation with Germany and your neighbors, it is -- otherwise it is this cake and eat it,
it is a cheesecake.
It is the fact of a strong European Defense that can reduce the American participation and position which is very clear, which is it is legitimate
that the United States as of today want to protect Europe and settle conflicts between neighboring countries, you must invest more.
And so we're not in a situation as at the end of the Second World War when Europe was disarmed, and when part of Europe did not want rearmament, and
our mentality was built over decades, and it wasn't a Europe -- the times have changed. There wasn't militaries of sovereignty, there isn't a Warsaw
Pact. The Berlin Wall has fallen and also on the part of the United States responsibility.
I'm not as pessimistic as you. The last two years, we progressed, strengthened cooperation.
[10:00:08]
END
