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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Benefit Claims In The United States Continue To Soar; China Dismisses Reports The Pandemic Began In A Lab; The Chief Medical Officer Investigating President Trump's Touted Drug. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired April 16, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:20]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here's your need to know.
Five million more. Benefit claims in the United States continue to soar.
Coronavirus controversy. China dismisses reports the pandemic began in a lab.
And trialing treatments. The chief medical officer investigating President Trump's touted drug.
It's Thursday. Let's make a move.
A warm welcome to all our FIRST MOVErs across the globe, as always, great to have you with us. It's another day where the data and of course the
lives behind that data tell the story.
It's telling us that cases of coronavirus may be peaking in the United States and in key parts of Europe even as the economic consequences
continue to escalate.
President Trump is set to unveil his plans for relaxing U.S. stay-at-home restrictions even as multiple governors and business leaders say testing,
testing, and more testing is the key.
For now, the latest on the U.S. jobs crisis. A further 5.2 million people filing for first time benefits just in the last week. It was in line with
expectations and it was actually less than we saw the week before, but it is still an astounding figure and there is more to come.
It suggests that the U.S. is now close to losing all the jobs gained since the Great Recession, and it's happened in the space of a month. And it
comes of course, too, as the U.S. program to save small businesses and therefore jobs, the so-called PPP, runs out of money with Congress still
unable to agree on fresh funding.
U.S. futures are modestly higher at this moment. Stocks fell sharply on Wednesday though after new reports showed historic declines in both U.S.
factory activity and consumer spending data and more of the banking giants beefed up their loan loss provisions bracing for a historic number of
defaults.
Morgan Stanley, the last of the big banks to report today setting aside an additional $400 million worth of cash. That is well over $20 billion for
the major four banks this week. Consumer credit crunch. That's what that's telling me.
The shares are higher in Europe as you can see as Germany announced it will begin easing lockdown restrictions next week. Over in Asia, stocks were
mixed. Investors there I think are waiting the release of China's growth numbers for the first quarter. We're expecting the first decline in
recorded history.
Let's get right to the drivers because Richard Quest joins us now. Richard, there is so much we can talk about, but I do want to hone in on what we're
seeing, the mounting numbers of people filing for first time benefits in the United States. Some may have just been furloughed. Some may have just
been fearful. But you can't hide from the fact that 22 million people are in that position and they're in it just in the last four weeks.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes, and the numbers will continue in this sort of trend. I think the important thing of course is
not the headline number, which is, you know, frightening and worrying, it is these other numbers, which we're getting business inventories, all the
other things that we're talking about, retail sales.
Because they will indicate how many of those furloughed will be taken back on again when the economy opens. As you and I said at the very beginning of
the week, these other numbers tell us what GDP will look like, what economic activity will look like in the second half of the year, and that
is the crucial determinator for how many of this horrific number, 17 million, 18 million people who have lost their jobs, will be reemployed.
It is not good, Julia. I can tell you, if you look at the numbers, it suggests that the reopening of the economies will be slow and steady and,
Julia, it could be 2022, I'm reading this morning before the unemployment numbers get back to where they were.
CHATTERLEY: It's the critical point here because this is purposeful. This is what we're doing in shutting down the economy. It's what we can save and
protect in the interim to have jobs and businesses in a position where they can rehire.
[09:05:06]
To your point about 2022, last week we spoke to Jason Furman, former adviser to President Obama, and he said half the furloughed, he hopes, can
come back quite quickly, but it could take us five years to get back where we started.
QUEST: Yes, yes. That's exactly the scenario that is going to play out. Think about it this way. Companies basically furloughed and laid off staff
to shift them on to the government payrolls of unemployment.
Immediately some will be re-employed. I would say 30 percent to 60 percent of those people will come back almost immediately because the jobs are
still there, the companies are still running.
But the rest of them, they are going to have to wait for economic activity to pick up again. It's awful. I hate describing people's livelihoods and
people's lives as economic activity. But that's the world and that's the business we're in.
They are going to have to wait until economies pick up before demand -- because the last thing companies will do -- I'll leave you with this -- the
last thing companies will do will be take on workers that they fear they're not going to be able to keep or pay for.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, this is the crux of what we're saying and when we bring it back again to the small businesses, it is not just about the United States.
It's about other developed in particular economies, too. The small businesses are the lifeblood, they are half of employment here. If you
don't protect them, if you don't get money out to them in the short term, and what we know right now is that the money has all but run out, you're
exacerbating the damage that's already being done.
QUEST: Yes, and that Small Business Administration, that loan program -- by the way, Julia, that loan program was very poorly constructed. First of
all, the money is going to run out. But, secondly, small businesses have to apply for the money now because it might run out, but they don't need it.
The reality is, small businesses need that money as working capital when they re-open again and they need that as a bridge until business picks up
again. Instead, the Federal government constructed it as an all or nothing now so what's going to happen is companies have taken the loans, they'll
burn through the money, they'll then layoff the staff, and then those grants will become loans because the staff have been laid off.
It was poorly constructed. It was done in a hurry, and it's not enough money.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. It was the best they could do. I have to say though the Small Business Administration, to give them credit, the chief tweeted this
morning in less than 14 days, they've processed more than 14 years' worth of loans.
That gives you a sense of the scale, the pressure that they were under. But I agree with you, bypassing them would have been the key -- maybe it still
is. Richard, thank you so much for that.
QUEST: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Now as U.S. Unemployment claims skyrocket, President Trump will unveil his plan to reopen economy. Multiple governors though say their
states are nowhere near that point yet and business leaders say testing for COVID-19 is still inadequate and has to be dramatically increased before
people can go back to work.
John Harwood joins me from Washington. John, you and I were talking about this yesterday and predicting what that call with business leaders was
going to be like, and I think the message was consistent. We need more testing or our people aren't safe. What are we expecting from the President
today? Do you think he changes his tune, perhaps, in light of what he is hearing?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think at some point, he is going to have to. I don't know if it will be today. That call was
just yesterday and the President has been talking about these guidelines all week.
We know as you indicated, governors are ultimately going to make the decision and they're going to make the decision based on public confidence
which is based on what public health authorities say we need and what business leaders say we need.
They all agree that it's testing and so sooner or later, that issue is going to have to be dealt with whether it is dealt with by governors, in
cooperation with the Federal government, or whether it's done by the President of the United States using the Defense Production Act or some
other means of ramping up testing.
In the meantime, I expect the President is going to be talking about what some of the places with lesser case numbers, the less densely populated
states without the big metropolitan areas, things that they might be able to do to ease up and get started again.
The problem of course is that most economic activity in the United States is conducted in large metropolitan areas. As a matter of fact, in states
governed by Democrats, 24 of the 50 states are home to 58 percent of the economic activity in the United States.
[09:10:00]
HARWOOD: So it is going to be difficult for the President to push this along on the basis of appealing to Republican governors in smaller states
because people like Gavin Newsom in California and Andrew Cuomo in New York are ultimately going to be the decision makers.
CHATTERLEY: That is such an important point. John, the other point -- and we were just making it, and I was making it there with Richard is getting
more funding for the PPP, the Payment Protection Plan. What are we hearing about negotiations between the Democrats and the Republicans?
They all -- this had bipartisan support in the beginning and they know more money is needed -- it's just the terms and conditions and what else is
required in terms of cash to keep the Democrats happy. Can they agree on this this week?
HARWOOD: I think they can. There were talks last night between Speaker Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Mnuchin. Those talks are going to continuing
today. I think everyone is committed to getting more money in this program and the fact that it is running out of money already is an indication that
however you were talking with Richard about how it was designed, whatever the design issues with the program, there is tremendous appetite for this
program.
You know, the real question, Julia, as we've talked about in previous settings is, unemployment is now north of 15 percent. We know there is
going to be an end point at some point, whether there is vaccine or testing. The question is how much economic damage is incurred between now
and the end point and to shorten the end point, we need more testing.
I think that the Congress is going to shovel more money out the door to try to sustain some of those businesses so that when we do get to the point we
can reopen the economy, businesses are going to be there to employ the workers who are now laid off.
CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. They need money now, and at the heart of this is getting on top of the health crisis because we can't do anything without
that. John Harwood, thank you so much once again.
China dismisses a theory that COVID-19 originated from a Chinese laboratory, saying there is no proof. This comes after multiple sources
told CNN that the U.S. government is looking into whether the virus actually came from a lab in Wuhan.
David Culver is live in Shanghai with the latest. David, great to have you with us, and the Chinese may be saying, look, there is no truth to this,
but quite frankly trust at this moment is in very short supply. What do we know?
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a lot of skepticism when it comes to how things are being handled here and how they were handled here
initially.
Now, with regards to the origin of this, we should preface it, Julia, by stating, you know, what most medical experts are saying, and that is it is
not believed to have originated in the lab. It is believed to have gone from that animal to human contact and then spread from there -- the initial
transition.
But what we need to look at is what U.S. officials are investigating as one of many theories. And that is that it originated potentially in a lab in
Wuhan. They don't believe it was part of any bioweapon experiment or work and that it likely happened even on accident if that's how it happened.
Again, one of many theories they're looking into.
As you point out, the Chinese are pushing back against that and they are dismissing it quite quickly. That is coming from the Chinese Foreign
Ministry today, and they suggest that they are only focused on the scientific aspect of all this. They're not going to speculate beyond the
science in how it started.
They of course maintain that it started in a wet market in Wuhan, one that is now shut down. But it is also interesting to note that the same
spokesperson, Julia, who was mentioning that they're not going to rely on anything, but science is also an individual who a month ago was tweeting
out that it may have been the U.S. Army that brought the virus to Wuhan.
So there is a back and forth between the two countries that we see playing out quite strongly. Now, I want to go to the other big story that is really
getting a lot of attention here and that has to come from the Associated Press in particular.
Now, they have a report that's based on what they characterize as a leaked memo from a confidential teleconference involving the head of China's
National Health Commission.
CNN has gone through the government's public report of that teleconference, which highlights the worries expressed by health officials to other leaders
six days before officials here alerted the public.
So here's what we know of what China knew and when. I can show you some timeline graphics. Starting back on December 8th, the Wuhan government
notes the first patient symptoms of the then unknown virus.
Nearly a month later, on January 3rd, Wuhan health officials stressed there is no obvious human-to-human transmission. On the same day, China notified
the U.S. of the virus.
Now, on January 7th, President Xi Jinping's first public awareness is made known and he ordered actions to be taken. A week later, on January 14th,
going back to the teleconference, the government release says a sober understanding of the situation was made known to top government officials.
They added that clustered cases suggest that human-to-human transmission is possible. That was the 14th. Here's the concern. Publicly, as late as
January 19th, the Wuhan Health Commission said the outbreak was controllable and preventable, not contagious.
The next day a very different narrative, leading health officials acknowledged cases of human-to-human transmission and even stressed that
medical personnel had gotten infected.
And of course, three days after that, Wuhan goes on lockdown.
[09:15:29]
CULVER: Now, China's Foreign Ministry states that -- in an open and transparent and responsible manner, China has kept the W.H.O. and relevant
countries updated on the outbreak but, Julia, you have got to look at the timeline, and the six days in particular may not seem like a lot, but it
was six days during what is the largest human migration each year. The Lunar New Year travel when people are coming together and the potential for
exposure is massive.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Those days were absolutely critical. Never mind what's happened since.
CULVER: Right.
CHATTERLEY: David, great work. Thank you so much for that. David Culver there.
Now, the U.K. government is set to extend its lockdown curbs by weeks when the emergency committee meets later today. This, as Downing Street comes
under increasing pressure to outline its exit strategy from these emergency measures.
Nick Paton Walsh is in London for us. Nick, great to have you with us. It is not what people want to hear, but the health crisis dictates at the same
time an exit strategy of some sort is also required. What do we expect?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Today, we expect to some degree the measures to be continued for probably another three weeks.
I have to say, that would conflict to some degree with what officials refer to as the green shoots, the numbers we've been hearing over the past days.
And I think the government here in a slight dichotomy in that they need to try and suggest to people that the measures so far have had success and now
indeed are seeing.
We heard yesterday, 2,000 spare capacity plus hospital beds. So the free U.K. health service say, the N.H.S. is not actually over capacity as many
feared would be the case when we started to see a loss of life.
We are still sadly seeing over 700 reported dead every day at this point. But at the same time officials, too, need to get people to stay at home for
the next two to three weeks, certainly, and the weather is improving and, frankly, here in Central London, we've seen bustling streets that haven't
been that way for the last fortnight or so.
So we are likely to hear some specifics, certainly people will be looking to see when the end date of the renewed measures are. It was initially
three weeks. Will it be three weeks again, or reviewed during that three- week period -- unclear?
But also, too yes, you say an exit strategy as well. There isn't one frankly at this point. There have been some indications from a Junior
Health Minister that maybe a vaccine is required before social distancing can stop here, but at the same time, too, epidemiologists have repeated
that idea.
We're missing a key voice of the leader of the government, Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister who is still recuperating from the disease himself and
not it seems involved in the decisions being made behind me, a key Cabinet meeting due in just over an hour, Julia.
So a very important day for the United Kingdom in terms of how it handles this, but it knows economic damage is accruing very fast and they do need
to tell the population exactly how they plan to get them back to normal, however slow that process may be, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, just some degree of clarity, I think would help just mentally for people -- never mind anything else. Nick, very quickly,
testing. Where is the U.K. on testing and tracing?
PATON WALSH: Very far behind where it needs to be, and by its own declaration it has just under a fortnight to reach a hundred thousand tests
a day.
It seems to be somewhere in the region of about 20,000 a day or so. But it's a large leap and still, I think even if you are able to test a hundred
thousand on a daily basis -- that doesn't get you to the point where you know who has had it, who has it currently, and therefore which part of the
population you can put back to work.
A massive challenge here because at the start, the U.K. government was less focused on testing and more focused on how much population could safely get
this before they started to lock it down and they are, I think reeling from the consequences of that right now -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and much of the world. Nick Paton Walsh, great to have you with us. Thank you.
All right. We're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE, but up next, a huge problem for small businesses as the emergency loan program, the PPP,
runs out of cash.
We speak to the CEO of Intuit, one of the FinTech firms set to distribute the funds.
And putting President Trump's game changer to the test, we speak to the doctor leading one of the first clinical trials of the drug touted by the
President as a potential cure. Stay with us. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:22:46]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE as we count down to the market open this Thursday. U.S. stocks still on track for a higher open this morning
despite new numbers showing that 5.2 million Americans filed for first time jobless benefits last week.
Just to add what we've seen for the last four weeks, some 22 million Americans have filed for unemployment assistance since mid-March.
In the meantime, stay-at-home stocks continue to outperform, Netflix and Amazon shares begin today's session at all-time highs. CEO Jeff Bezos of
Amazon saying the company is building the facilities it needs to regularly test all employees for COVID-19. And therein lies the future, I think, at
least for the big companies.
Torsten Slok joins us now. He is Chief Economist at Deutsche Bank Securities. Torsten, always a pleasure to have you on the show, sir.
Deutsche Bank's estimate for these first time unemployment claims was eight million people. What do you make of the numbers that we saw today and do
your forecasts mean that more damage is still to come and significant damage?
TORSTEN SLOK, CHIEF ECONOMIST, DEUTSCHE BANK SECURITIES: Well, the news today is of course terrible. The job losses are enormous. So today, people
are still losing their jobs. There is a number of dimensions that are very important when you think about the magnitude of these numbers.
We've had significant issues with the state level systems in terms of filing for unemployment benefits. A number of states basically have not
been able to process all of the claims that have been coming in.
Remember, that in January, the level of jobless claims was 200,000. So that means we have to consistently had to deal with the normal level of the
200,000 to 300,000 jobless claims, suddenly dealing within to the five million, six million, seven million numbers.
So that means, of course, that there is a lot of processing that goes a lot slower. We also had the CARES Act, the fiscal package we got a few weeks
ago, expanded eligibility, so it was expanding to contractors, to gig workers, and freelancers, and the systems were just not ready for that.
So the bottom line is that we see the number of course coming down from where it was two weeks ago, but it is still is the case that these lay-off
numbers are telling you that the unemployment rate is going to be in our estimate close to 15 percent to 20 percent here in April.
[09:25:10]
CHATTERLEY: Do you think that's the peak, Torsten? Because we've seen challenges with the Paycheck Protection scheme, particularly for smaller
businesses, that represent around half of employment in the United States saying, look, we still need to get our hands on the money even if we filed
the application here. They have weeks of cash. They need money now. Is this the peak or could it get even worse?
SLOK: Well, the challenge on the Paycheck Protection Program as you were mentioning, Julia, is that it has been a little bit slow in coming up and
running.
It has just been announced a few minutes ago that the facility that will be lending against the loans in the Paycheck Protection Program is now fully
up and running, but the bottom line is that if we are depleting the resources as you also have been talking about the last few days, as we
speak, and this week, well, then the risk is that we may not have the resources to basically help small businesses and that could have serious
implications also for the jobless claims numbers and the unemployment rate over the coming weeks.
So, absolutely, there is a very significant connection between what is going on in the Paycheck Protection Program, supporting small businesses
whether that program gets more funding and is something that will continue to help in what is going on in the labor market and the bad data that we're
getting this morning from jobless claims.
CHATTERLEY: Jason Furman, former economic adviser to President Obama told us last week that it could take five years to get the jobs market back to
where we started even if 50 percent of what we're seeing here in terms of claims are just people that have been furloughed and actually can get back
quite quickly.
It is getting the rest back, does that make sense to you or do you think that is too long, that's too negative an estimate?
SLOK: That is a very long period. When you think about the nature of this shock, I mean, a lot are being thrown at this to solve it both from Capitol
Hill and the politicians, also from the Federal Reserve, and trying to limit the negative consequences.
That being said, as we saw after the financial crisis, once the unemployment rate goes up, it always takes time for the unemployment rate
to come down again even though we expect the unemployment rate to drop faster, I think what Jason Furman is saying is it does make sense it will
take a longer time than we all would hope for that it would be having unemployment rate that goes back to the 3.5 percent that we had in February
simply because a lot of people will be laid off and may not as easily come back particularly if we have social distancing on airplanes, trains, buses,
cinemas, concerts where we no longer, from a regulatory perspective, will allow people to sit as closely.
That means there may no longer be the same level of activity in the economy that we had in February, and from that perspective, the behavioral changes
on the part of consumers of being more cautious might on its own speak for a slower move down in people of the unemployment rate concept to anything
we would call normal again.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, confidence, behavioral changes, all of these things matter. And I think that brings it back to what I mentioned just coming
into this interview which was Amazon saying, look, we're going to be creating the facilities to test our own people in-house in order to do
that.
We're not in a position on a nation level where we have the testing or the tracing capabilities anywhere near where they need to be. Torsten, what is
your prediction at this moment for getting the economy back up and running in some kind of immediate rebound?
Are we talking third quarter? Fourth quarter? What are you even thinking at this stage and saying to clients?
SLOK: Yes, so this is a very important question of course in particular for markets, but the issue to that quick question, Julia is that we spend a lot
of time studying what is going on in other countries that are already ahead of the U.S., and if you look at the number of new cases of coronavirus, it
looks in very simple terms like Italy is about two weeks ahead of the U.S.
So in that sense, the opening up that we are beginning to see very gradually in Italy, Germany, some of the other European countries,
literally this week seeing a few stores open, some countries -- the kids are going back to school.
Within the U.S., we are spending a lot of time and U.S. markets also starting, well, how is that functioning, which businesses opening up first?
Which businesses are going to see cash flow come back first?
Because this will be important for the answer to your question of what will the trajectory of this recovery look like? We all agree it will not be a V-
shaped recovery, but how long time will it take before we get back to levels of production that are anywhere near what we had in February?
And our answer is, we probably have to get all the way to the end of this year before we get to a level of production broadly speaking at the economy
level that is closer to what we saw in January and February of this year.
CHATTERLEY: Wow. Yes because it has got to be done in phases. Torsten Slok, great to have you with us, sir. Stay safe, please.
SLOK: Thanks for having me.
CHATTERLEY: The Chief Economist there at Deutsche Bank. Great to have you with us. Stay with us. The market opens next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:33:01]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE, I'm Julia Chatterley and we have U.S. stock markets up and running so far this Thursday and we have a higher
open on Wall Street. There were some warning from Goldman Sachs this morning saying stock markets have gone too far too fast. I kind of agree.
But then, there is a wall of liquidity of course behind this that is incomparable in terms of size. In the meantime, the U.S. President Donald
Trump is announcing his guidelines for re-opening the U.S. economy later today.
Germany also will begin slowly re-opening their economy next week, and I think that is instilling some optimism more broadly into these markets. But
fresh numbers from the United States today as we've discussed show why it is so essential to begin this conversation.
U.S. jobless claims rising by a further 5.2 million people last week. We are talking 22 million people filing for the first time for jobless
benefits in just one month.
Okay. And the faces of course of those people that are involved. Small businesses, owners across the United States are facing the financial
fallout and the cost of this.
Vanessa Yurkevich has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything was just prospering and growing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything was actually really good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Business was great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS REPORTER (voice-over): But then for these small business owners, it all came crashing down. Like many
businesses around the country, COVID-19 changed everything.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANA CASTILLO, PRESIDENT, SALE CRUISE PARKING: It was like apocalyptic. It was the scariest day ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): Americans who are self-employed, gig workers, or freelancers can now apply for unemployment. Anna Castillo is one of them.
Her family owns a cruise parking lot in Miami, but with no cruises, her income is zero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASTILLO: Me and my parents have put blood, sweat, and tears into not only coming to this country and like building something for themselves, but in
general, like safe cruise parking was built from their savings, from every penny they've ever worked for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[09:35:10]
YURKEVICH (voice-over): Christina Mickens owns a PR company in Atlanta and business is slow. As a single mom to a nine-year-old, she is the family's
bread winner. She hasn't heard back about her unemployment and her rainy- day fund is drying up.
[09:35:24]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINA MICKENS, OWNER, C. NICOLE PR FIRM: Sticking to the bare minimum, I would say by the end of April, maybe first two weeks of May, that will be
gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): Kristopher Payne is in the same boat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTOPHER PAYNE, OWNER, WELL PLAYED GAMES: The bills don't stop between now and then and the money is rapidly running out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): His gaming shop in North Carolina is a month away from shutting down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAYNE: I applied for the PPP, the idle loan, the grant, and I've also applied for unemployment. Nothing has worked out at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): With the backup in unemployment processing, Payne believes he is weeks away from a check.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAYNE: If the unemployment came through, I would be able to turn all of that money into my own money that I would use for my business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): Forty three percent of small business owners say they have less than six months until they'll close because of COVID-19,
according to a survey by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. For some, the pure will to survive could be enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICKENS: Failing is not something that is in my radar or even the back of my mind when it comes to my business. I know, I won't be that 40 percent to
50 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): For others, the wound may be too deep.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASTILLO: It's not just like the business, it's like the people behind it and everything that they do to provide a service to you and to make a
living for themselves. So I would just say support your local businesses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): Vanessa Yurkevich, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: This is happening around the world, but here in the United States, the Small Business Administration is urging Congress to provide
more money for the Paycheck Protection Programs. The pot of money allocated runs dry.
Turbo Tax maker, Intuit is one of the FinTech companies that has been approved to distribute government loans to small businesses. Joining us is
Intuit CEO, Sasan Goodarzi. Fantastic to have you with us on the show with us, sir. Great to get your insights.
You joined at the weekend. You were finally allowed permission. And now, the money is running out. What are you hearing from small businesses? I'm
sure you're also urging Congress to agree more money?
SASAN GOODARZI, CEO, INTUIT: Well, first of all, thank you for having me. You know, we serve millions of small businesses and most of whom we serve
actually have five or less employees, and as you were talking about in your last segment, you know, folks have between one to four weeks of cash and
we're now at that point where many small businesses are at the brink.
And so we're actually delighted with the money that is being made available through both the stimulus checks and also the Paycheck Protection Program.
And so what we have done is we've launched a couple offerings to really connect those that qualify for the stimulus check and the Paycheck
Protection Program to get the money in the hands of customers as soon as possible because, you know, these small businesses particularly the ones
that we serve that are really the heartbeat of the globe, they behave like consumers.
And so they're available for both funds and we have got to get the money in their hands as soon as possible.
CHATTERLEY: Can you tell me a little bit about the small -- and as you say, it is the smallest companies that you tend to cater to? What the mix is in
terms of diversity? Women? Minority groups? Because this is one of the hold-ups in Congress. Particularly the Democrats say, look, we want to have
more equality in where the loans are going. Is that what you as a FinTech player help provide?
GOODARZI: Yes. Well, we see the diversity in our small businesses. Almost half of the small businesses that we serve are led by a woman and are
woman-based businesses. We also see the same stats we see from a minority perspective, we see it in our base.
And so, this is really just about helping people, helping humankind. This, I think, the small businesses, you know, is an easy term to hide behind.
These are real people that drive 50 percent of our economy around the world. They're responsible for 60 percent of the hiring.
And as you were talking about in your last segment, I think we have to ensure that we can save small businesses, because that will actually be the
key to our economy coming back strong.
CHATTERLEY: How much lending capacity, Sasan, do you have and what is the average loan size just to give us a sense of what we're dealing with here.
Because particularly from my understanding for some of the medium to larger size banks, they don't cater to these kinds of businesses either. They're
just not interested. So is there a separate subset of the business community that the FinTech players target?
[09:40:03]
GOODARZI: Sure. Well, first of all, if I use the United States as an example, we in essence serve one in 12 Americans through our QuickBooks
platform and particularly in payroll.
And these customers, you know, really the average loan is between $10,000.00 to $20,000.00, this is not a lot of money. This is just enough
cash in their pocket for a couple months so they can in essence pay their employees and in essence stay in business until the economy comes back.
These are the folks that truly are the heartbeat of the United States and countries around the globe, and they are the ones that need the money the
most because they're the ones typically that may not have more cash than a week and they're really struggling right now.
We believe that we can help them very quickly so they can at least keep their doors open until the economy comes back.
CHATTERLEY: Sasan, how many small businesses do you think already have decided based on what you were saying about just how much cash they have,
have already decided just to close and won't be a continuing business going forward.
And even in the best-case scenario, if we get more money, what proportion of small businesses do you think don't make it?
GOODARZI: Well, first of all, from just our years of experience serving small businesses, they're fighters. They're dreamers. They're passionate.
And they will do whatever it takes to stay in business as long as they can because, really, behind them are a few employees that they absolutely want
to make sure they can help them maintain their jobs.
So they are fighters. They will do whatever it takes to the last penny until they have no more money left in the bank. What I would tell you is
these very small ones, many have already run out of cash and they're just piling debt on their credit cards, borrowing money to be able to stay
afloat.
In fact, one of the things that we've launched, it is the Small Business Relief Program, where it is a crowd sourcing platform with GoFundMe.
This gives an opportunity to a small business to be able to in essence get their friends and family and their customers to help raise the money. There
was a local deli right in Mountain View where our headquarters are that was in essence running out of money and they needed $10,000.00 for a few months
to in essence stay afloat.
And within 24 hours, they raised almost $20,000.00 with this crowd sourcing platform. So I use that as an example because everybody is trying to fight
to stay in business.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's community. It's about protecting the businesses and the people in your community at a desperate moment. Thank you so much for
joining us. Stay in touch and let us know how you progress and fingers crossed, more money is agreed in Congress this week and you can get that
money out there.
The CEO of Intuit there.
GOODARZI: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Sasan Goodarzi, stay safe, sir. Thank you.
GOODARZI: Thank you for having me.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. All right. Up next, the U.S. President hails an antimalarial drug as a potential treatment for coronavirus. But the medical
community, not quite as convinced. We speak to a doctor overseeing one of the first and largest clinical trials of the drug. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:46:17]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. A little-known antimalarial drug rocketed to fame when the U.S. President Trump touted it as having "great
promise" as a COVID-19 treatment.
But hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness as a treatment for coronavirus has never been clinically proven. On Monday, South Dakota announced the first
statewide comprehensive clinical trial of the drug, which will be led by healthcare provider, Sanford Health.
Joining us now, Dr. Allison Suttle, she is Chief Medical Officer at Sanford Health. Great to have you with us, Dr. Suttle. Thank you so much. It is a
two-part trial. It's a trial testing those that actually have COVID-19, but also possibly as a preventative measure for those that don't but that are
exposed. Is that right?
DR. ALLISON SUTTLE, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, SANFORD HEALTH: That's right. That's correct, Julia, and thank you. Thanks so much for having me. The two
parts to the trial are exactly what you said. The first part is really going back to the very beginning.
We take a patient or a person who has been exposed to the virus and we give them hydroxychloroquine and it is similar to taking a Z-Pak, it is a five-
day dose, but it stays in your system for up to 50 days, and we're going to see and we are going to ask the question, does taking that
hydroxychloroquine prevent you from getting the virus or does it lessen the symptoms of the virus?
CHATTERLEY: This trial could take up to five years. Is that correct? Because there are reports of trials that have been abandoned because of the
side effects. There are reports -- and of course, I mentioned the President has suggested it could even be a cure. What do we know today?
SUTTLE: Yes, so, this trial that we're looking at prophylaxis, so trying to prevent the virus all together is actually going to have results within
about six months.
CHATTERLEY: Wow.
SUTTLE: Because the virus has an incubation period of 14 days, after we enroll 2,000 patients, we'll have enough power to tell if that prophylaxis
is treating or not.
The other side of the trial is the one that we'll be able to look out over the course of five years and that is much more looking at the disease
progression. What is the viral load based on different treatments? How long do the antibodies persist in the system? So that is much more looking at
the disease progression.
CHATTERLEY: One of the aspects of this is just seeing how this antimalarial drug suppresses the virus and allows the body's own immune system to fight
this better. But in certain cases, we've heard that it is the body's own immune system that at times overwhelms the body in its efforts to fight.
Do you have to be very careful about who you use this drug on?
SUTTLE: You know, I think that is a great point, and I do think so far, we've used this antimalarial drug for all comers, at all different stages
of the disease and I think what we're starting to piece out and what we are starting to refine is that this particular drug may have more benefit early
on in the disease, preventing the virus from really starting the replication process.
So that is why we're looking at other medications when there's that cytokine storm or when the body is getting overwhelmed by inflammation
there might be other medications we need to use at that point in time.
CHATTERLEY: And what about people with existing conditions? Because, I mean, this drug has been in use since World War II, but I look at the list
of potential issues it can create -- arrhythmias, seizures, dermatological reactions, just a sort of very limited end of the spectrum.
Are there people that you simply won't give this to because they have pre- existing conditions?
SUTTLE: That's right. We have to be very careful with any medication, and I've been so impressed with our research team. They get together and start
thinking about who are we going to treat, how are we going to treat, what medications will we use?
And the first thing they say is we have to do no harm. So what are the potential ramifications of using these clinical trials? And they are very
careful with creating criteria at which -- exclusion criteria -- at which an individual would not be able to be on the clinical trial.
[09:50:21]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, because in the end, even if it is a life or death situation with the virus, in trying to help save somebody with the virus,
in the end if they have other conditions you don't know what you're battling.
SUTTLE: That's right. You have to be very careful.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Dr. Allison Suttle, thank you so much for joining us on the show, and please keep in touch because we'd love to hear as you
progress with both of these trials.
The Chief Medical Officer at Sanford Health there. Thank you so much, Doctor, and stay safe.
SUTTLE: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Okay, after the break, as we lock ourselves in at home, some of us are coming out with extraordinary feats of endurance. If you need a
reason to be inspired today, we have it. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Now, I know the number of coronavirus cases and the loss in life is horrific and for many of us, the
thought of our families or friends getting ill hovers constantly at the back of our minds, but spare a thought for those who are beating the odds.
This is 106-year-old, Connie Titchen who is recovering from COVID-19 and you can hear the applause as she was discharged from hospital in
Birmingham, England. She was born in 1913. She lived through two World Wars and, once again, emerges as a survivor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Do you remember earlier on this morning, we was having a chat and do you remember I was telling you that you are the oldest person to have
survived this nasty virus that is going around?
CONNIE TITCHEN, COVID-19 SURVIVOR AT AGE OF 106: Oh, yes.
QUESTION: Do you feel lucky that you've survived all of this?
TITCHEN: If I feel lucky, yes. I do. Yes I do, really.
QUESTION: Are you looking forward to seeing your grandchildren?
TITCHEN: Yes.
QUESTION: Are you looking forward to an old spot alone at Shenango Home?
TITCHEN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And an amazing nurse there, too. And then here is 99-year-old, Tom Moore. As you can see, by what he is wearing, he's a war veteran from
Bedfordshire in England. He raised over $16 million for the U.K.'s National Health Service by walking 100 lengths of his garden on a walking frame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM MOORE, 99-YEAR-OLD WHO RAISED $16 MILLION FOR NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE: I've been a hundred years old, if I didn't do a hundred walks up here, and
we might get a thousand pounds. But then they seemed to have got bigger and bigger and bigger until now, I don't know why this just seems to go on and
on.
I mean, from a thousand pounds we seemed to go now into millions. It's rather a lot of money for somebody like me, but it's not for me. It's for
the National Health Service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[09:55:27]
CHATTERLEY: What a legend. $16 million. And the great news is you can hear from Tom Moore, himself, because he is live on CNN in the next hour.
I think we can all learn a thing or two from those who fought adversity in the past and need our help more than ever right now. I will see you all
tomorrow. Stay safe, please.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We continue our special --
[10:00:10]
END
