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First Move with Julia Chatterley
White House Adviser Dr. Deborah Birx Sees More Antibody Work Is Needed To Support Reopening; The Bank Of Japan Scaling Up Bond Buying To Fight The Economic Crisis; The Future Of Airbus At Stake As The CEO Warns It Is Bleeding Cash. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired April 27, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:40]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here's your need to know.
Innovation breakthrough. White House adviser Dr. Deborah Birx sees more antibody work is needed to support reopening.
No limit. The Bank of Japan scaling up bond buying to fight the economic crisis.
And a matter of survival. The future of Airbus at stake as the CEO warns it is bleeding cash.
It's Monday, let's make a move.
Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Great to be back with you as we begin a brand new week together. It's also a crucial week too as more European
nations and U.S. states embark on partial, at least reopening of their economies.
It feels like an inflection point in the COVID-19 crisis as the West opens up, but without the scale of testing and tracing seen in places like South
Korea, in China and in Taiwan, too.
Nothing would be worse for consumer confidence, for business confidence, too, and our weakened economies if we go too far too fast and have to lock
down once more.
That's the test and it's going to be a dominant theme, I think for investors over the coming weeks. For now, as you can see, U.S. stocks are
higher premarket retracing some of the modest losses that we saw last week.
Though, the tech outperformance, I have to say continues, having already helped the S&P 500 bounce over 25 percent from last month's lows.
FAANG heavyweights, Facebook, Apple, Alphabet, and Amazon will all report results this week. So, they'll be key to watch, too.
And I'll keep making the point that we need to separate stock market performance from the underlying economies that they represent. That's a
reflection of the power of Central Banks and the cash -- the sheer quantity of cash -- that they've thrown at the system, and that's not over.
Today, more action from the Bank of Japan. The Central Bank dramatically raising the amount of corporate debt that it will now buy to make it easier
for businesses to borrow ultimately. They'll also buy, they say, an unlimited amount of government debt, if necessary, too.
They're already not buying as much as they could. So, it'll be interesting to see how they behave going forward. But Japanese stocks rose more than
two and a half percent on the news, and as you could see, I think that news helped drive the broader Asia stock markets higher, too.
The Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank are meeting this week, too. So, we'll see what they have to say about fresh support measures, too.
More lending or more spending or both.
Let's get to our drivers. A breakthrough in antigen testing, that's what's needed says White House adviser, Dr. Deborah Birx to fully control the
coronavirus pandemic as economies reopen.
CNN's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen joins me now. Elizabeth, great to have you with us and hopefully, you managed to get some
rest this weekend.
Separate these two things for me because we keep talking about the need to ramp up testing generally. But then this testing to see who has had this
virus and may not even have known about it or shown symptoms, and that gives us a sense of how much immunity is out there and what immunity is
required to give you some protection going forward. We don't have that yet.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't have that yet, and so let me take off on sort of a thread that you mentioned there, Julia.
Let's separate these two tests.
One test involves trying to see if you currently are infected with coronavirus that involves typically a swab that goes to the nose and the
back of the throat, and that tells you if you have it right now.
The antibody test is a blood test. It is either done by a needle in your arm or a finger prick, and that tells you if you had it in the past, and
you might, might, might -- notice I said that three times -- you might -- a fourth time -- possibly be immune to the virus.
There are several problems with antibody testing. Let me talk about the two big ones. One is, we don't know if we have a reliable test. There are so
many tests out there on the market.
In the U.S. alone, there's more than 90 different companies that have been given permission to sell their tests. But we don't know if they work and as
a matter of fact, there's some indication that many of them don't and that they're giving false results.
[09:05:11]
COHEN: And secondly, even if we had a test that we knew was right, even if we had a test that said, yes, for sure, you have antibodies to coronavirus,
you were previously infected, and now, you have antibodies. We don't know what those antibodies mean.
And I can't stress this enough that we are still trying to figure it out. Does it mean that you're immune right now, but maybe not a few months from
now? Does it mean you might be sort of immune now, but kind of not? Does it mean you have no immunity? We just don't know, and that's what they're
trying to figure out.
CHATTERLEY: Define innovation breakthrough then to go back to what Dr. Birx suggested is required. How far away do you think -- and I know I'm
putting you on the spot here -- are we from being able to analyze what we get in terms of antibodies assuming the tests are accurate? How far away
from that point are we -- Elizabeth.
COHEN: So, Julia, that's okay, I'll let you put me on the spot. Not many other people, but I'll let you do that. So, and the answer is that I'm not
in Dr. Birx's head, so I don't know what technology breakthrough she was specifically thinking about.
But I will tell you that the experts that I'm talking to have actually looked at these antibody tests. What they say is that there needs to be
more validation -- validation on top of validation on top of validation.
Validation means that you take some blood samples where you know these people didn't have coronavirus because let's say it's from 2018.
Coronavirus, didn't -- this coronavirus didn't exist then and you test it, and if you get positive results, you know that something is wrong.
Then you take people who you know had coronavirus because they had a positive PCR test, they had symptoms, they were in the hospital and if you
get a negative, you know, it's wrong.
And so we need to keep validating the tests, and really when it comes down to it and I think Julia, as a financial person, you'll appreciate this, we
don't need 90 different people marketing a test in the United States alone. There is no need for that whatsoever.
As a matter of fact, it hurts because then the scientists have to take the time to keep validating these tests. Does this one work? Does that one
work? We need some good tests. We don't need dozens of good tests. We need to have a few reliable tests that we know are right.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, we do, and then we need to use the Defense Production Act to scale up so that we have enough of these once we trust the ones that we
do have.
Elizabeth, great to have you with us. A new cookie today, I have to say.
COHEN: Exactly.
CHATTERLEY: Shame. Elizabeth Cohen.
COHEN: Yes, tomorrow.
CHATTERLEY: Okay. We will work on it. Thanks.
COHEN: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: All right. Lack of testing capability is not putting off more U.S. states from partially lifting coronavirus restrictions.
Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin expressing optimism about the recovery. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN MNUCHIN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I think as we begin to reopen the economy in May and June, you're going to see the economy really bounce back
in July, August, September.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: But White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett warning of a pretty dire situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER: Make no mistake, it is a really grave situation, George. This is the biggest negative shock that our
economy I think has ever seen.
We're going to be looking at an unemployment rate that approaches rates that we saw during the Great Depression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Christine Romans joins us now for more. Christine, I think, they are both right. I think we're in a very distressing situation. We
could, as we reopen the economy, see some kind of bounce back.
For me, it's the what-next? What kind of recovery are we looking at? And that comes down to what we were just discussing there -- testing, and of
course, perhaps more support and the safety net that's being provided and more required?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, what Kevin Hassett is telling you is what's happening right now. And he is
right, these are depression era numbers as you and I've said, again, and again.
And what the Treasury Secretary is telling you is that why it won't be a depression because of the unparalleled support between the Fed and Congress
to this economy.
You're also right, the first thing I was reading this morning, where all of these economists' note saying, here's the next wave of aid that we think is
going to be coming even before this stuff is even out the door.
They're talking about state aid. They're talking about extension of -- the sort of economists would like -- extension, another extension of
unemployment benefits, maybe an infrastructure build next year.
So, there is a feeling that there is a fiscal support for this economy. We don't know what it's going to look like whether it's a V, a U, a W, the
Treasury Secretary is clearly saying he wants it to be a V. He thinks it should be a V.
But you've got economists saying you're going to need a lot more support for this economy to make sure it's a depression with a little D and not a
depression with a big D.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, we've only had -- what -- half of the trillions of dollars that we were initially saying is required to stimulate, to
support and then boost a recovery in the U.S. economy.
In the interim, the PPP, the lending program back up and running today, though, I still have plenty of questions over who is going to get access,
how quickly they're going to get access? And the Small Business Administration, saying that you can bulk, if you've got 15,000 or more
applications, you can give them to us in bulk and we'll deal with them.
That worries me too for very small businesses.
ROMANS: Well, look, so they're saying that that's a one-time only deal if you're one of these banks has got all of these deals on your book or all of
these requests for loans on your books, you can get them out the door and then go one by one after that.
[09:10:15]
ROMANS: And we know that the SBA and the Treasury have told these banks, look, if you have applications that are already in queue, go ahead and
process those. So, a lot of small business owners have been wondering, do they need to apply again? Are they going to be considered? Just exactly
what's going on here?
You know, this is a lot of money, $310 billion dollars, but I mean, everybody I talk to says it's going to be a matter of days, at the most
that this is going to -- this is going to last.
We do know that there's $60 billion here this time that is very specifically targeted to the pipework -- the piping and the framework that
services -- some of these really small businesses that don't have a big banks. They have community lenders or community development routes.
So, hopefully that is going to get some money to these underserved communities as well. But you know, we shall wait to see. They're trying to
get the money out as quickly as possible. That means they haven't written a lot of restrictions into the statute, which means some people can take
advantage of that.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And they've restricted the big banks to 10 percent of the pots around $60 billion here as well and Bank of America, this weekend,
saying that they've got $50 billion already. So, we shall see.
ROMANS: The demand is huge.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, demand is huge. That's the one thing we do know right now and pretty desperate for these small businesses, too. Christine Romans.
Thank you for that.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
CHATTERLEY: All right, the Bank of Japan reiterating the whatever-it-takes mantra, as the nation's Central Bank is committing to buying more corporate
debt and unlimited government debt as it forecasts a drastic slowdown for the world's third largest economy.
Kaori Enjoji is in Tokyo for us. So, Kaori, just explain to us exactly what the Bank of Japan announced overnight. What support measures, and then
we'll analyze them how good it's going to be.
KAORI ENJOJI, JOURNALIST: Yes, well, this is back to back easing by the Bank of Japan, and it's basically telling us that it's going to spend its
way out of recession.
First and foremost, as you pointed out, it's announced that it's going to buy as many bonds as it needs to, to try and keep long term interest rates
low.
So, they've removed this cap, which was symbolic to begin with, because it wasn't even near that. But it does send this message that they're going to
do whatever it takes to try and limit the damage, the fallout from the COVID-19 and the shutdowns.
But this is a harsh assessment of -- reassessment of the economy that the Bank of Japan has done. They've cut their GDP estimates for this fiscal
year, they've given us a range of minus three percent growth to as bad as minus five percent growth.
And they're saying that inflation will not hit that two percent target for at least another three years. So, it basically means that eight years of
this Abenomics Economic Agenda has been wiped out by COVID-19 over the last three months.
Funding costs are creeping up. This is a worry. And in a surprise move today, they said -- the Bank of Japan said that they will offer interest
rates of 0.1 percent to banks if they take advantage of a loan scheme that was put in place to try and get banks to lend to smaller companies.
And I think this is critical because unlike after Lehman, when it hit the manufacturing sector, the most here, which is the backbone of the Japanese
economy, this time around, it's hitting the service sector.
And these are mom and pop stores, but they're a critical part of the economy because they employ 70 percent. They provide 70 percent of the
jobs.
So, they want to take up -- the banks -- to be able to take up all of that. And of course, basically they're putting up a wall of money offering to buy
commercial paper and corporate bonds.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's interesting how often we talk about the biggest corporations in a lot of these developed nations and yet it's the small
businesses that are the backbone of the economy and in the frontline of the damage that's being done here, and to point, and here you are, backing now
to stop falling prices ended by COVID-19.
Great to have your analysis here. Watch how this support measures filters into the economy. Kaori Enjoji there in Tokyo for us. Thank you.
Now, the survival of Airbus may be at stake and that's according to the CEO of the aerospace giant, he warned employees in a letter that the firm is
"bleeding cash," quote, and perhaps further job cuts that may be needed down the road, too.
Our Anna Stewart joins us now on this story. Anna, bleak. We know it's a challenge. We know many of the companies in this space and for the
airlines, it's been a terrible period. What more is Airbus saying here and are we talking about significantly further job cuts?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, that is the big concern. I think those words in that letter, bleeding cash at an unprecedented speed will be
really worrying for the, you know, 130,000 people that work at Airbus.
Now, we knew that Airbus already slashed its production by a third a few weeks ago, but clearly, it's going to have to take more measures and
probably much more severe measures going forward.
Looking at the sector, I mean, IATA already told us early this month it thinks the pandemic could cause the world's airlines up to $314 billion
just this year in revenue.
Some airlines will get bailouts. We're already beginning to see some of that. Some airlines won't. Some airlines will not survive the coming
months.
And speaking to an aviation analyst this morning and talking about the implications that that has for aircraft orders. Well, you can add more
uncertainty in terms of what we've seen in terms of consolidation of airlines and how will that change what they need in terms of aircrafts even
after restrictions are lifted? What will the consumer appetite be to fly? How will it change in the months and possibly years in terms of the balance
of long haul versus short haul?
All of this has an implication, of course, for the order books, and frankly, the next four or five years of orders almost feels like a work of
fiction if you're looking at it from Airbus and Boeing's point of view at this stage. There's so many questions.
Now, speaking about Airbus specifically, they can use some of the furlough schemes. We know that doing that in France for around 3,000 workers. We're
not sure whether they furloughed any workers in the U.K. that is a scheme here as well.
There are loans. There are credit loans from banks. But what we're looking at for Airbus, for Boeing, for the airlines is not just a short term, few
months sharp downturn and a V-shaped recovery. We're looking at months, maybe years of financial pain -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a fundamentally changed sector. And to your point, we don't really have clarity on what recovery looks like. And that is the
critical challenge for all of these companies, talk about Boeing specifically because it's a big week for them, too. Earnings, we'll get
details if they are going to take that financial money and under what conditions, too? So, lots to come from Boeing as well this week.
STEWART: So, this week -- and over the weekend, we had news of course, about the contract they had with Embraer, given everything we just
mentioned, it's unsurprising they no longer want to go through with buying an 80 percent stake in Embraer's commercial jet unit. That was going to be
a $4.2 billion deal.
Embraer though saying that Boeing has wrongfully terminated the deal. They're going to take legal action. It could lead Boeing with a termination
fee of $100 million.
Add to that, Julia, in addition to the pandemic, and all of these unforeseen sort of challenges and questions, the fact that the 737 MAX is
still costing this business hugely.
In January, they said that the grounded planes were going to cost them nearly $19 billion, and that was before the pandemic last month, with
airlines canceling orders for 150 of those planes.
So, the challenges for Boeing just keep coming. Big week for them, earnings, and as you said, that deadline to apply for a government aid
package -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Anna Stewart, thank you so much for that analysis there. What a challenge.
All right. We're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE, but up next, essential testing. A former head of the C.D.C. says the United States is
not ready to reopen. We get his take on what's needed before America returns to work.
And Uber's new roadmap, how the car hailing app is adjusting to a world in which customers stay at home and off the roads. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:21:05]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York where we are still looking like a higher open for U.S. stocks this Monday morning.
Fresh emergency support from the Bank of Japan, I think helping boost global sentiment here ahead of key results from some of the major tech
firms as I mentioned.
We've got the NASDAQ higher by more than one percent premarket. Elsewhere, though in earning news, Deutsche Bank helping. Those shares are up around
10 percent in European trading.
As you can see there, they've pre-announced that first quarter results will be stronger than expected.
Also in Germany, the German sports apparel maker, Adidas, reporting a more than 90 percent drop in Q1 earnings and is warning of even worse results in
the current quarter. Wow. A 93 percent drop in profits for Adidas there.
U.S. stocks are set to rise despite another sharp drop in oil. So, keep a look and an eye out for the energy stocks. In particular, what you're
looking at there is Brent and WTI. As you can see, WTI right now down almost 26 percent, trading below $13.00 a barrel there. So, that pressure
and the volatility in the oil sector continues.
In the meantime, the Chinese City of Wuhan was the first city in the world to go into that coronavirus lock down, but it's not business as usual after
the 76th day of quarantine.
This, of course remains a focus as the rest of the world tries to get back to business. The scars of the viral outbreak lie just beneath the surface
as David Culver reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's Tuesday, April 21st, and after -- what -- I guess, it is about two and a half months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
CULVER: We are leaving Shanghai.
CULVER (voice over): Our journey back to the original epicenter of the novel coronavirus outbreak required weeks of planning. While within China,
some cities are easing travel restrictions, new hotspots can suddenly surface and so too, new lockdowns, which could trap us mid-travel for an
unknown amount of time, but all layered up and we felt this was the moment to return.
CULVER (on camera): And this is our ticket here. It might be reversed, but here you can see it. Take a picture. As you can see, our destination set
for Wuhan. It's going to be about a four hour train ride.
We've noticed it's relatively full so far, so, at least maybe half full, which is pretty significant given there is next to no one traveling several
weeks.
Let's get on board here.
CULVER (voice over): On board, the train attendants collect our passports. They try to play CNN's photojournalist, Justin Robertson's accent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you from?
JUSTIN ROBERTSON, CNN PHOTOJOURNALIST: Where am I from? I am from London.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: London?
ROBERTSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: England?
ROBERTSON: England, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (voice over): It is not just friendly conversation because they want to be sure that we've been in the country for at least two weeks so
that we're not potentially importing the virus from other areas. The threat to China now thought to be external.
Arriving in Wuhan, I'm quickly reminded that the last time we were here, almost three months to the day. We'd spent just 29 hours on the ground.
When we abruptly learned that Wuhan was going on lockdown, CNN shared that scramble out of Wuhan with you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (voice over): A rushed checkout sparked by a 3:00 a.m. phone call.
CULVER (on camera): Our rush right now is to check out. Get out.
CULVER (voice over): We headed to the train station as soon as we got word. As we arrived, crowds already lined up for tickets, stretching out
the door.
CULVER (on camera): It's 4:15 in the morning here, and the only way to buy tickets at this hour is in-person.
CULVER (voice over): From there, it was off to a Beijing hotel quarantining before the rest of the world realized you'd soon be doing the
same.
Fourteen days in a hotel room to make sure we'd not contracted the virus. We continued our live reporting from quarantine. Then relocated to
Shanghai, and here we were three months later headed back to Wuhan.
[09:25:06]
CULVER (voice over): The lockdown was over, but the hesitation remains.
As we interviewed an American who's lived in Wuhan since 2009, we also experienced the increased skepticism toward foreigners like us and the
growing distrust of Western media, a crowd of police questioning us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (on camera): What did he say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are --
CULVER: Oh, he can speak English. I'm from the U.S., but I live in Beijing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (voice over): It was not our only interaction with authorities. When we returned to what some Chinese scientists believe to be the source
of the outbreak, the Huanan Seafood Market and started recording, police stepped out of a nearby tent to ask us why we were there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER: What did he say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just be quick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (voice over): Perhaps the most sensitive spot on our visit, this funeral home and crematorium. Normally, you do not find police posted
outside.
But last month, Chinese media published a report claiming more urns were distributed than reported coronavirus deaths calling into question the
official figures.
We wanted to investigate. But even as we were across the street, police quickly approached us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show them who we are. Show them who we are.
CULVER (on camera): We just attempted to go to one of the funeral homes in hopes of seeing some of the grieving families and hearing from them their
perspective of what transpired over the course of the lockdown and losing their loved ones.
As we were there, police didn't like that we were there. They happen to be positioned right outside, held us there for a little bit, didn't let us
leave.
And finally after a few minutes, we are able to continue on our way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (voice over): Given that many medical experts believe the virus transmitted from wildlife to humans, we wanted to go to another Wuhan wet
market to see what they were selling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (on camera): It's pretty much a China market, sites like this all across China. This is actually a pretty normal one. You've got a bag full
of toads, some fish on the chopping block over there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (voice over): No wildlife here, but some snakes, lots of frozen poultry along with an array of fresh vegetables and spices all under the
same roof.
Scenes like this appear to show the city of 11 plus million residents coming back to life. Folks enjoying a game of badminton or just soaking in
the stillness, knowing that after week sealed inside your home, this is a luxury.
And while many of the businesses here remain closed, the ones that have reopened are changing up the way they operate, keeping customers outside,
bringing the products to them.
Hotels like ours spraying down everyone who walks inside with disinfectant. The elevators are marked with a safe social distance. They provide a tissue
to keep your bare fingers from touching the buttons.
All of this as testing for the virus has become streamlined here. Before we left, we had to get ours done to. An easy appointment to make, a quick
throat swab, $35.00 fee to expedite the results and 24 hours later, we were handed the paperwork showing we were negative.
And with that we could then safely depart.
CULVER (on camera): A far less rushed check out this time leaving Wuhan compared to three months ago. We get in in the car, headed to a train, we
are headed to Shanghai.
CULVER (voice over): On the train back, police carefully examining our passports and test results, allowing us to return to Shanghai without
having to do another quarantine.
Once again, leaving behind Wuhan as it slowly awakens in its post lockdown era, the people left, a bit shell-shocked navigating this uncertain moment
with a cautious optimism.
CULVER (on camera): And a story now finds us back here in Shanghai, a lot of folks will ask what life is now like in Wuhan given that they
technically reopened on April 8th.
The reality is, they're still far from open. Many businesses still remain closed, by our guess, more than half based on what we saw driving through
many of the commercial streets, and lot of the folks are still hesitant, uncertain about what they believe might come assuming there could be second
wave.
David Culver, CNN, Shanghai.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: We're going to go live to Shanghai and chat to David in just a few moments time. I have so many questions watching that in light of the
reopening that we're seeing elsewhere.
Testing streamlined -- one of my key takeaways. More to come.
And of course the market open. Stay with FIRST MOVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:32:23]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE, I'm Julia Chatterley where U.S. stocks are kicking off a new week with gains that despite fresh weakness in
the oil markets, as I mentioned.
We're seeing a boost from new emergency action from the Bank of Japan, too, as we've discussed. The Central Bank announcing today that it will buy as
many government bonds as necessary to steady its economy.
It's a promise they've already made in the past, but now they're buying more corporate debt, too. Fresh moves to get economies up and running again
in both Europe and the United States are a key factor, I think here in seeing a bit of a lift, early doors for U.S. markets.
U.S. companies taking new steps to shore up their balance sheets amid the crisis, too. General Motors just the latest announcing that it is
suspending its dividend and stock buybacks. Its shares are lower in early trading.
Dividends, of course, key for distinguishing those that were relatively stronger coming into this crisis. And of course, how they come out of it, a
real challenge for these automakers in demand going forward. GM currently down almost three percent in early trading.
The cars of course, a key factor in what goes on in the Chinese economy as well. We were just hearing about life back in Wuhan and the recovery post
the lockdown. David Culver has just returned from Wuhan as you were hearing there and joins us now from Shanghai.
David, always great to have you on the show. As you were pointing out there and there were things that were jumping out to me as you were speaking,
one, normal is a new normal. It's not what we saw in the past, but things like testing becoming streamlined, the test that you fast tracked in order
to be able to leave Wuhan and back to Shanghai.
And when I look at Europe and I look at the United States, we are nowhere near that in terms of capabilities here. It's pretty frightening, I have to
say.
CULVER: I've heard that a lot, Julia, and I think frightening, frustrating, I think a lot of people are worried when they see that.
But the other thing I would stress here is that it's not always been this way. In fact, I'll just go back to some of our reporting three months ago,
and you realized how dire the situation was when it came to the lack of testing capacity within Wuhan, within Hubei Province, the original
epicenter of all of this.
At one point, they only had some 200 tests available each day. I mean, Wuhan is a city that is larger than New York, more than 11 million people
live in that city.
So, it gives you an idea of how desperate they were early on. However, what we've now seen is obviously when the central government took over, they
pushed aside the local government which was seen as mishandling, under reporting, covering things up and a military-like operation to ramp up
production took place.
And of course, now, you have hundreds of thousands of tests available each day to the point where we can go down there, and as foreigners, we are the
ones that they're really skeptical of, because we're seen as potential imported cases of the virus.
[09:35:19]
CULVER And so they make sure that if we're going to be traveling around that we have to get tested. And the same is now true for locals, too. But
they have that capacity where you can simply make an appointment and pop in that day and if you pay an expedited fee, 24 hours later, you get the
results. If you don't pay the fee, you can wait three or four days and still get the results.
And it's those results, Julia that then allow you to travel around China, essentially saying, I'm clean. I'm not bringing anything beyond myself with
me. No virus to potentially expose others to.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, your point about the ramp up though going from 200 tests a day to what we now see is critical as well, and other nations, we hope
will follow suit.
David Culver, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for updating from Shanghai there.
CULVER: Thanks, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. China, of course, a crucial manufacturing hub for the U.S. retail sector, though supply chains have been disrupted both by
the global COVID-19 pandemic, but also -- and we can forget this and shouldn't -- the ongoing trade tariffs on products entering the United
States from China.
U.S. retail sector of course in the firing line for this. Retail sales fell almost nine percent last month. It was the worst monthly decline on record.
Stephen Lamar is the President and CEO of the American Apparel and Footwear Association and joins us now. Stephen, all sorts of fears -- and great to
have you with us -- about the retail sector and its relative resilience as we push through the coming months. What's your assessment? Just how bad has
it been and will it become?
STEPHEN LAMAR, PRESIDENT AND CEO, AMERICAN APPAREL AND FOOTWEAR ASSOCIATION: Well, Julia, thank you for having me on the show. This has
been devastating. This is a deadly health crisis that's turned into an existential economic and business crisis.
You know, companies have had to close their doors. They do this out of abundance of caution and safety, of course. It's the right thing to do.
But, you know, these are companies that are not structured to operate with no revenue coming in. So, with no revenue, they've had to lay off
employees, they can't pay their bills. I mean, this has terrible economic consequences and reverberations throughout supply chains, both in the U.S.
and throughout the world.
It's really been very, very, very tough and very hard to see our economy and the global economy going through this.
CHATTERLEY: We've seen a few winners, and it's those that have fundamentally strengthened and grown their online offering. Amazon, of
course, is a classic example of this. Do you worry that those that have been relatively resilient -- and we've seen them higher -- and it's
Walmart, its Target, its Amazon -- will perhaps continue to benefit and we'll see less diversification in retailers following these events.
LAMAR: Well, this is -- this is a crisis that's really led to some companies being able to grow their online business for example. Of course,
that's one of the areas that we've seen a lot of positive news, but not everyone is structured to be online.
All the millions and millions of jobs that are still dependent on brick and mortar, those stores are shuttered, and those jobs are temporarily lost.
And that's one of the reasons we've been so aggressive in talking to the government and advocating the government to provide liquidity.
You know, liquidity is the name of the game. We want to get as many of these companies that are temporarily shut to stay around so that when the
economy does start back up, and we want to make sure that the economy can do that in a safe and responsible manner.
So, when the economy does start up, it can do so and it can provide those jobs either retain those workers to the extent that -- and/or rehire them
quickly once consumers have enough confidence to get back into the stores.
CHATTERLEY: Stephen, now you're also asking for the tariffs -- the tariffs that are still being applied to U.S. businesses that are importing Chinese
goods. Have you asked for those to be suspended or removed because surely that would help, too?
LAMAR: Yes, we have a number of asks in this area, and in fact, last week, we released a statement signed by about 70 of our sister trade associations
around the world, making a similar request to governments throughout the world to be united in this effort, not only to provide liquidity, but also
to provide some tariff relief and restraining themselves from any new trade barriers.
In the case of tariffs, we have a situation where we're asking the U.S. government to defer duties for a period of anywhere from 90 to 180 days.
They've already done some of that. We're asking them to do more to continue that going.
So, what happens is, companies have to -- they have to make a decision, either they can pay the U.S. government those tariff costs where they can
use those -- that cash to pay their payroll to keep their employees on the payroll -- and when you have a choice between paying the U.S. government of
paying your payroll, and you have to pay the U.S. government, the employees lose.
So, we're hoping that the federal government will extend those tariff -- deferral programs -- so we can continue to preserve that cash to keep
operations going.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a stark choice.
LAMAR: We'll also ask -- yes. Right, well, and we are asking -- see, we're asking them as well to suspend tariffs on items of personal protective
equipment. These are items like masks and gloves and an isolation gowns will be still charged tariffs, including those damaging punitive tariffs on
those items that are going to come from China.
It is going to be as much as 33 percent, and we're asking the government to cease collecting those tariffs, to suspend those tariffs, so we can deliver
more of them, so when governments are buying and paying for those products, they don't have to pay much because that tariff costs simply as a cost that
is added to the final consumer.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's insanity to me that protective equipment still has tariffs on it when we know there's desperate needs still in the United
States.
LAMAR: Absolutely.
CHATTERLEY: Stephen, very quickly what proportion of businesses do you think we lose in the retail sector, even with the support measures, lending
-- hopefully, the removal of some of these tariffs. What proportion do we lose?
LAMAR: I think it's too early to predict that. I mean, our goal is to lose as few as possible. We want to make sure that, you know, we come out of
this as strong as we possibly can.
You know, we keep saying we're in this together and our view is that all of our -- all of our members, all of our retail partners, all of our supply
chain partners are in this together. So, hopefully we can, you know, all come out of this and be stronger than before.
CHATTERLEY: Fingers crossed. Stephen Lamar, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for that.
LAMAR: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: All right, still to come on FIRST MOVE, Uber pleads, don't ride with us. We speak to its senior Vice President for global operations
on just how the company is adapting to the COVID-19 reality and support they're providing. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:10]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. In a sign of how things have changed during this pandemic, Uber is now doing the opposite of what it's
been doing since the company started. It's encouraging people not to use its ride-hailing services.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: Stay home for everyone who can't. Thank you for not riding with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: That was a recently released advert thanking people for staying at home and avoiding nonessential Uber journeys.
Andrew Macdonald is the Senior Vice President for Uber's global operations, and he joins us now.
Andrew, great to have you with us. When I saw that advert, it gave me goosebumps because it's so the opposite of the entrepreneurialship that the
company represents and what it has provided to drivers and those that are doing deliveries. And now you're saying actually, you need to be safe and
safety comes first.
ANDREW MACDONALD, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, UBER GLOBAL OPERATIONS: Hi, Julia. Thanks for having me. Yes, that's right. We decided to go out with a
message globally to remind people to stay home and that includes reminding our own riders.
You know, we feel like social distancing is working. We all have a responsibility to play in this crisis. And if people stay home, we'll get
through this together sooner.
So, whether you saw our TV ad or even opened the Uber app over the past month, you would have seen a message asking you not to ride unless you
absolutely have to.
CHATTERLEY: And that doesn't mean as a company, you don't recognize that for many people, this is their income that is suddenly being switched off
overnight.
So, you've been very proactive, one about the safety aspects, but also tying the drivers that are now not working to try and get them support
based in the country that they're obviously working in. You've been proactive about that, too.
MACDONALD: Drivers have been top of mind for us through the entire crisis. One of the things we've done is we've actually launched an area of the app
called the Work Hub, where you can connect with other opportunities to earn money while the rides business is down.
So, that includes delivering on the platform, our delivery businesses are up and doing quite well -- food delivery, grocery delivery, those types of
things, but also even connecting drivers to opportunities with other companies, which is not something we've done before.
The other thing we've done, as you say, is we've advocated for drivers to be included in government financial assistance programs around the world,
and in more than 20 countries, they have been included. So, those efforts were quite successful.
And now we're working to provide information to provide resources in all 50 states in the U.S., and then in 20 countries around the world for drivers
to actually access that financial assistance.
So, these are just a few of the things we've done. There's obviously much, much more we can do. But we're doing our best to prioritize the safety and
financial security of drivers through this crisis.
CHATTERLEY: I know, I mean, the other thing that you're pioneering I know is medication deliveries in South Africa, too. So, just to try and get your
drivers doing other things and providing services if they are not just taking people from place to place here as well.
What are you hearing just specifically in the United States, from your drivers about the ability to access those benefits? Because I've certainly
heard from a lot of people that have said, state by state, it's just a challenge to be recognized for the first time as a gig economy worker in
trying to get support.
MACDONALD: Yes, this is the first time that independent workers have been included in programs like unemployment benefit programs, certainly in the
U.S., but that's also true in much of the world.
And so one of the things we're investing in, as I mentioned, is a COVID-19 information hub, where we're actually going state by state and trying to
essentially aggregate as much information on the process, and then give custom guides to drivers about how they navigate the process.
And then we're also working with state governments to try to make the programs easier to access. Because again, as you say, it's the first time a
lot of governments have actually included independent workers in this type of relief, and they're sort of figuring out the systems as they go.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a challenge. And to your point, as you quite rightly say, it's not just in the United States, it's the first time we're really
getting a sense of what the gig economy represents and providing support in periods of difficulty.
Andrew, I know, there's something else that Uber is very passionate about and that -- and we've seen it -- increasing instances, reports of domestic
violence, with people being told to shelter in place, to stay at home under lockdown and facing potential abuses.
Talk to me about the work that Uber is doing around the globe to try and support those that are suffering this at this moment.
[09:50:10]
MACDONALD: So, last week, we announced a program where we're donating 50,000 free rides to victims of domestic violence around the world. This is
going to be in 16 different countries, 35 cities around the world.
Unfortunately, what we're hearing from experts and from our partners in this space is that over the past few weeks, as people have sheltered in
place, incidences of domestic violence have increased pretty dramatically, and that's a very sad reality of people staying home and home is not safe
for everyone.
So, what we're doing is partnering with shelters around the world to distribute these free ride codes, and try to remove transportation as a
barrier to accessing safe spaces.
CHATTERLEY: So, you would literally provide a free taxi ride for somebody who calls and says I'm a victim of abuse and take them to some of the
shelters that you're partnering with on this.
MACDONALD: That's exactly right. So, we're partnering with shelters around the world. We're actually going to distribute the codes to the shelters
themselves so that they can distribute them to individuals in need, who call the shelters who say, I want to come, I need to come. I don't have a
way to get there.
So, the shelters will distribute the codes and hopefully, again, we can remove transportation as a barrier to people seeking safety.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fantastic. So, those that are suffering domestic violence, free food, trying to support your workers is one heck of a
challenge, Andrew, but thank you so much for the work that you're doing and we'll stay in touch and gauge progress.
Andrew Macdonald there, Senior Vice President at Uber.
MACDONALD: Thanks.
CHATTERLEY: No, thank you, sir. Okay, and if you're a victim of domestic violence living in the United States, or know someone who does, please
contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline, the number is 1-800-799- SAFE.
You can also support organizations such as the National Network to End Domestic Violence, or nomore.org.
We are back after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Dr. Anthony Fauci has become a household name, so it seemed only a matter of time until he got the
"Saturday Night Live" treatment, and that's why Alisyn Camerota asked him this a few weeks ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Which actor would you want to play you? Here are some suggestions that I've heard. Ben Stiller, Brad Pitt. Which one?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Brad Pitt, of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Well, on Saturday night, Dr. Fauci's wish came true. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD PITT, IMPERSONATING DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: Now, there's been a lot of misinformation out there about the virus. And yes, the President has taken
some liberties with our guidelines.
So tonight, I would like to explain what the President was trying to say. And remember, let's all keep an open mind.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Anybody that needs a test gets a test -- they're there. They have the tests and the tests are
beautiful.
[09:55:10]
PITT: Okay. Couple of things. I don't know if I would describe the test as beautiful, unless your idea of beauty is having a cotton swab tickle your
brain.
Also, when he said everyone can get a test, what he meant was almost no one.
To the real Dr. Fauci, thank you for your calm, and your clarity in this unnerving time. And thank you to the medical workers, first responders and
their families for being on the frontline.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: We agree. A nice thank you -- or better, Brad Pitt says it than I do. But wasn't he great as Dr. Fauci.
Thank you for watching. Stay safe. We'll see you tomorrow, same time, same place. Stay safe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
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