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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Coronavirus Cases Rising In 23 U.S. States; Twitter Posts A Fake News Warning On A Presidential Tweet; Nikola Founder Speaks On Their Hydrogen-Fueled Trucks. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 19, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:29]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Live from New York, I am Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.
States spike. Coronavirus cases rising in 23 U.S. states.
Manipulated media. Twitter posts a fake news warning on a presidential tweet.
And taking on Tesla. We speak to the founder of Nikola on their hydrogen- fueled trucks.
It's Friday, let's make a move.
Welcome to FIRST MOVE this Friday. Fantastic to have you with us. It's Friday as I mentioned and it's also Juneteenth, a day that commemorates the
effective end of slavery in the United States. It is clearly taking greater prominence perhaps than ever before this year here and around the world, as
people call for greater racial equality. I think Fed Chair Jay Powell was said best this week. He said, there is no place for racism in society. We
agree. We'll talk more about this later on in the show.
But for now, let's look at what we're seeing for U.S. futures. Pushing higher after stocks ended a little changed yesterday. Sentiment perhaps
being helped today by a report from Bloomberg suggesting China will step up purchases of U.S. agricultural products -- oh, we're back to trade talks.
This comes less than 24 hours after President Trump threatened to cut ties with China. Doing so, again, we've certainly heard that before. I think
right now investors tend to focus on action rather than rhetoric. So, let's bring that squarely back then to stimulus and science as we keep talking
about.
The former, the stimulus on tap in Europe as E.U. leaders begin discussions on how to pay for their proposed $850 billion stimulus fund. Oh, is that
the sound of a can being kicked, I hear? They are going to talk about that, I believe, next month.
Chinese stocks meanwhile leading the way higher in Asia. Retailers and banks gaining on hopes of more government support thereto. The Shanghai
composite just for reference, less than three percent away now from turning positive on the year.
The good news there, authorities saying Beijing's latest COVID-19 outbreak is now under control, compare and contrast here in the United States, we
have 23 U.S. states seeing cases spike. For balance, cases are falling in 21 U.S. states; and in others, infections are stable.
Let get you some context here because we are joined by senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen. Elizabeth, great to have you with us on the
show. Just give us context because I keep seeing record, the word "record" being used for some states. How worried should we be by what we're seeing?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Julia and this is not a good record. This is not a record that we want to set. You know, we
know the United States is a huge country, and so some areas are doing better than others, and so let's take a look at a map that we have.
On this map, the states that are in red and orange are the ones that are seeing sharp increases. In fact, the red states are seeing more than 50
percent increases. It is not a coincidence, Julia that many of those red states are states that opened up early and that opened up pretty
aggressively, states like Georgia, well, Florida for example is one of them.
These are states -- these red and orange states, Georgia, Florida, Arizona, these are states that have been very aggressive. You know this, you and I
have talked about this, Julia, you do not need a PhD in Immunology to know this piece of truth.
The more people get together, the more this virus is going to spread. It is possible to open up the economy and do it in a smart way, to do it the
right way, to have social distancing, but when people feel comfortable just, you know, going to large parties or when workplaces feel comfortable,
just getting people back to work without taking any precautions, that's where we run into trouble.
It is not shocking that in the United States, people have taken this approach because our President has basically said coronavirus is over. It
not a big deal. They are embers. He used the word "embers." These are not embers.
Hundreds of Americans are dying every day. You asked how worried should we be? I would answer very worried. When hundreds of Americans are dying every
day, that is a national catastrophe.
CHATTERLEY: It is a catastrophe and actually, we're seeing more people dying than some nations have suffered in totality. I mean, this is the
comparison, I think we have to keep making here. We are going to continue to reopen.
I think that's the message, the top down message certainly. We have got cases rising. We know a vaccine is still sometime away, if at all. What
more can we be doing, Elizabeth, to protect ourselves and each other?
[09:05:21]
COHEN: I think in order -- so let's talk about what individuals can do and what the government can be doing. I'll start with the government. What they
could be doing is they could be doing it right. They could be very aggressive about contact tracing. The minute someone is diagnosed, you send
the contact tracer there and you say who have you been with? Who have you seen? We need to quarantine these people. Do all of that kind of work that
needs to be done.
In some places that is happening more than in other places. It needs to be consistent and it needs to be persistent and going on everywhere, so that's
one of the things that the government can do, and in addition to other things.
Unfortunately, in the United States unlike in some other countries, we have taken a sort of every man for himself or every woman for herself approach,
so it's up to individuals and what they want to do.
I know for example where I live in Georgia that I see people who are being incredibly careful, who are wearing masks, who when they go for a walk if
they see someone approaching, they cross the street so that they don't get anywhere near them.
So there are people who are being careful, but then there are people who are going into stores and other places without masks and not being careful
at all. So, as individuals, unfortunately, we are going to have to decide what we're going to do.
Fighting a pandemic by individual is not the right way to do it. However, that's what it's come to in the United States.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, that's what it comes down to -- wear a mask and given the lack of other available options and alternatives and strategies being used,
wear a mask.
Elizabeth Cohen, thank you for joining us on that.
COHEN: Right.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
COHEN: Thanks.
CHATTERLEY: Actually, what Elizabeth was just describing there is quite familiar if you look at what's been going on in China for the last several
days.
China now says Beijing's latest coronavirus outbreak is under control. This comes after the Chinese capital placed more than 20 million people under a
partial lockdown following a new cluster of cases linked to a wholesale food market.
Meanwhile, some reports from China claim that the strain of virus hitting the city could have come from Europe. David Culver is live in Beijing with
the latest.
David, always great to see you. Some pretty stringent measures taken by China to clamp down on these clusters, but I think the more interesting
point for me there is the fact that they have released the genome, the DNA sequence of the particular virus strain. Fascinating, too.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, always good to be with you. This narrative is being pushed really strongly by state media, that the origins
of this are European as they put it, according to C.D.C. here in China, and they say that's compared to the Wuhan strain that obviously spread
throughout China over the course of several months beginning back in December.
Now, this recent strand, they are labeling as an imported case given that the border is shut down to almost every foreigner, it is likely that that
would then be a Chinese national who came in from another part of the world and brought with them the virus.
But they also floated a few other theories with regards to that market in particular. The Xinfadi Market, which is now completely shut down and they
say it could have come in possibly on seafood or meat. They were even suggesting salmon.
And so as soon as they said that, other places in China stopped selling salmon all together. However, the more likely situation is that this came
into an infected individual, that they stepped into that market, that is a market that even though people are wearing masks every single day -- we're
not wearing one because we're in an elevated position in a private area, but as soon as we step on the street, we are still wearing masks -- you are
shoulder to shoulder. You are still in contact. You're touching things in a market, obviously.
So that's likely where this human to human transmission took off and this new cluster emerged within Beijing.
It's incredible to think though that it happened here. You've got to remember, Julia, Beijing was a fortress during much of this outbreak. This
was the place that was impenetrable. Nothing was going to get in. They had heavy restrictions up until just a few weeks ago, even as a few months ago,
the rest of China was easing those restrictions, Beijing kept them in place.
They stopped pushing some of those heavy measures only recently and then suddenly this new cluster emerges. So, it brings to mind the reality and
health officials have told us this over the past couple of months that you can't become be complacent here. You have not gotten this beat. It could
reemerge at any moment and proof of that was what we experienced here over the past seven days.
CHATTERLEY: It is interesting, isn't it? It does raise many questions, one to your point, quite frankly, about how this happened and that you can't be
complacent in any way, but there will be those that look at this and go, is this situation now under control? And can we trust what we're hearing in
terms of the narrative that this wasn't home grown effectively, it came from elsewhere?
[09:10:04]
CULVER: We're always skeptical about the origin and about the numbers, especially as they put out here. I mean, they have tested some 350,000
individuals with regards to this most recent cluster and they say only 183 are confirmed cases.
That aside, we have tried our own ways to confirm this. So what do you do? Anecdotally, you go and you look at hospitals and you see if there is
overcrowding there. That wasn't the case. It seems like for the most part, outside of a compartmentalized lockdown zones that are in place within
Beijing, life is continuing as mostly normal, if you will.
So it does seems like they have isolated this to a certain extent, but I think when they say under control, you have to add for now because what
we've realized until there is herd immunity here or there is a vaccine, it's never really under control -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Absolutely. And I think if I was sitting in China, I'd would be going, uh, look at your own situation and the response when you
get cases that rises versus what is going on in China, quite frankly.
CULVER: Right.
CHATTERLEY: David Culver, yes, thank you so much for that. All right, more countries in Asia are reopening their economies. Today, Singapore has
removed most of its lockdown restrictions. Kristie Lu Stout has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, in a bid to boost their economies, governments across Asia are lifting pandemic restrictions. In
Singapore, shops, restaurants, gyms, parks, and swimming pools reopened today.
Social gatherings of up to five people are now allowed, but authorities add that those able to work from home should continue to do so.
Now, also today, Japan lifted all curbs on domestic travel as the government there seeks to reboot tourism. The government will also allow up
to 1,000 people to gather indoor and outdoor events. Japanese professional baseball has also restarted just without the spectators.
And here in Hong Kong, the city has significantly eased social distancing measures by allowing public gatherings of up to 50 people, as well as
wedding banquets starting today.
And after a five-month closure, Hong Kong Disneyland became the world's second Disney Park to reopen. It opened yesterday with guests required to
wear masks and to go through temperature screenings, but no photo ops with Mickey are allowed in this time of social distancing -- Julia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Kristie Lu Stout there. Now, a video tweeted by President Trump has been flagged by Twitter as "manipulated media," quote. They video used
a fake CNN graphic and went viral after the President's retweet.
Donie O'Sullivan joins me now. Two things here, Donie. The first is that this was a manipulated video used to illustrate the point that the
President believes CNN is fake news and the other thing is obviously that Twitter took action and actually pointed something out.
Talk me through exactly what happened here so our viewers understand.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Julia. It's a complicated one, but a lot of us will remember this heartwarming video from
last year of two toddlers excitingly running to give each other a hug.
Now, CNN at the time actually covered that video -- the story of the video for what it was, a heartwarming video. The parents saying that you know,
they shared the video of the boys, one black one white as perhaps a good example, a lesson to us, adults amid the racism in the world.
So with that in mind, Trump tweeted the video last night, a version of the video along with some fake CNN graphics, which suggested that CNN would
spin a video like this to make it look like the kids were running away from each other rather than running towards one another.
Now, Twitter labeled that video as manipulated media. This is in a new policy they have for misleading pictures and videos and deep fakes and so
forth, but I should note, that this video is also on Facebook right now. Facebook hasn't taken any action and gotten millions of views.
Trump supporters for their part online, immediately after twitter labeled the video, began defending it saying, you know, it was a parody, a satire,
not gaslighting and that we all need to have a better sense of humor.
But one person who definitely does not find this funny at all is one of the dads of one of the children in the video and he posted on Facebook last
night. He said, "Trump cannot get away with this. He will not turn this loving beautiful video to further his hate agenda," -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it is heartbreaking, isn't it? The President tweeting fake news to point out that he believes something is fake news. There is an
irony not really buried there at all, quite frankly, but to your point, this was something about two little children that clearly are very close
friends and it got turned into something else.
Very quickly, your point, though is very important, different treatment between Twitter and Facebook and this is really important.
O'SULLIVAN: Absolutely. And you know, it is worth noting as well that this was -- this is a video about race, right? It was tweeted on the eve of
Juneteenth here in the United States, and you're right, Facebook is doing nothing about this video. Twitter is putting a small label on this and we
have seen that Trump's -- one of Trump's own is now posting the video on Instagram which is a Facebook owned property.
So they are really blanketing this video across Facebook right now.
[09:001519]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I watched the original. It's really cute. Donie O'Sullivan, thank you so much for that.
All right, let me bring you up to speed now with some stories making headlines around the world. Australia says it has been targeted by a
sophisticated state based cyberattack. The strikes hit government, industry and essential service providers. Anna Coren has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Australia has been the target of large-scale cyberattacks from what the Australian Prime Minister, Scott
Morrison described as a malicious and sophisticated state-backed actor.
All levels of government, industry, education and health services, as well as critical infrastructure have been targeted although there have been no
large scale breaches of personal data.
The Prime Minister confirmed these attacks have been going on now for many months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MORRISON, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: So this is ongoing activity. It hasn't just started. This is a constant threat to Australia as it is to
many other nations and you'd be aware of many other nations having highlighted similar activity in their jurisdictions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN: While the Prime Minister would not be drawn into which country was behind the attack, experts say they are almost certain it was China. A
claim vehemently denied by China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs that said quote, "We firmly oppose all forms of cyberattacks."
However, according to Australian security agencies, there was an uptick in attacks around the time Australia began pushing for a global inquiry into
the origins of the coronavirus, which deeply angered Beijing.
China retaliated by placing a ban on Australian agricultural products, as well as warning its citizens not to travel to Australia and for China's
overseas students not to study in the country.
The Australian Cybersecurity Center is working with the organizations that have been subject to the militia cyberattack.
Anna Coren, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Coming up on FIRST MOVE, a company that says it programs DNA joins the fight against COVID-19. Sounds like science fiction, but it is
science fact. We speak to the CEO.
And more science fiction in a video game. Why London is taking a turn for the worst in an eagerly awaited new release. All coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:20:28]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York where U.S. stocks are heading for solid gains for the final session of the week. The NASDAQ
looking to rise in fact for a sixth straight session. It should hit the 10,000 milestone again today. Look, we've already done that if we open like
this.
Stocks in the headlines this morning include German FinTech firm, Wirecard. Shares have fallen more than 70 percent over the last two sessions amid a
multibillion-dollar accounting scandal. The company's CEO resigned today, too.
Shares of AMC meanwhile set to rise over eight percent. The movie chain says it will reopen more than 600 U.S. theaters next month, but it will
fill a mere 30 percent of its seats for each showing. AMC still down more than 20 percent year-to-date. How do you make enough money doing that?
All right, let's move. The biotech firm Ginkgo Bioworks engineers the DNA of microbes to grow new products. It calls its technique biology by design.
The technology has been used to create everything from fragrances to food flavors to pharmaceuticals.
Well, now, the company has secured $70 million to develop a fast scalable COVID-19 test. Ginkgo Bioworks was founded by give M.I.T. PhD students, and
one of them is here today.
Wow, that's a lot of brainpower. Joining us today is Jason Kelly, co- founder and CEO of the company. Jason, great to have you with us. I want to put it in English, I thin for our viewers exactly what you do. You've
described it as you being the largest designer of printing DNA in the world. In English, please, what do you guys do?
JASON KELLY, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, GINGKO BIOWORKS: Sure, yes. So, the short form of it is, we program a cell like you'd program a computer, right? And
the reason that's possible is because inside every cell is digital code in the form of DNA.
So it's A, T, Cs and Gs, not zeros and ones like in a computer, but we can read and write that code and when you put new code in, new DNA into the
cell, it does something new just like installing a new app on your phone.
And so, Gingko is the largest writer of DNA in the world and then when it comes to DNA reading, that's the technology we are repurposing in order to
bring down the cost and do more scale in COVID-19 testing.
CHATTERLEY: We've talked about this on the show before, getting the 30,000 letters that make up the genetic code or the DNA of COVID-19, to then use
that to try and test and this was exactly what you guys saw as something you could help with.
KELLY: Yes, I mean, you might have heard like the Human Genome Project which is a big effort 20 years ago to sequence the first human genome.
Well, now, there is a machine. It is this washing machine-sized devices actually in the lab behind me that allow you to read a four-billion letter
genome, tens of them every day in that one washing machine-sized device.
And so if you repurpose it to instead look for the much smaller fragments of DNA in the COVID-19 genome, that single washing machine-sized device
could do something like 50,000 or 100,000 tests a day, we believe.
CHATTERLEY: We've gone through a situation where we just need to test to find this virus to, I think, recognizing that we need to see mass scale
testing in order to just get people back into big buildings, get back to life, and this is what you're saying. It needs to be far greater, bigger
and easier quite frankly to do weekly, daily, whatever it is testing.
KELLY: Yes, this is actually a key point, Julia, right. So, the way I like to think about it, it is like a nuclear bomb went off and there was a shock
wave, right, and we all ran to our bunkers. We stayed home, yet heroic efforts to scale up clinical testing, which is ordered by a doctor for a
patient in a hospital to say, do you or don't you have COVID-19 so I can determine your treatment, right?
And we did that. We've succeeded at that. In the U.S., for example, we do 400,000 of those clinical tests a day and that's enough -- that was enough
to get us through the wave and it is enough going forward.
What we need now is screening, right, and customer of this is not a doctor. The people we've launched Concentric, our testing platform, the people
we're talking to are the CEOs of major companies. It is mayors of cities. It is the dean of a school, all trying to bring workers or students back
safely and contain outbreaks within their organization, and that's a screening effort.
And if you run the numbers in the United States, for example, we had 400,000 tests for the clinical testing. I think we need closer to five
million or 10 million screens a day. And fortunately, there are newer technologies that could make that much cheaper to do a screen versus a
test, but that's what we need coming up.
[09:25:10]
CHATTERLEY: You mentioned the dean of a school. I'll hazard to guess that you're talking to M.I.T. about getting students back, if they can, in the
fall of this year, but I'm sure you won't tell me whether you are or you're not.
How quickly do you think you can have these set up in universities and colleges and businesses?
KELLY: Look, so here is what is interesting about this. I think because it's so confusing because clinical testing was needed for that acute phase
and we've succeeded there, I think people think, hey, we're done with testing or something.
The reality is, if you actually were able to do screening at a huge level, again, something like five million or 10 million tests a day, I think in a
place like the U.S. that has an active outbreak, that's a faster route even than a vaccine to really getting rid of this thing.
And so my hope is, you know, I think we're coming up in the U.S. Congress on a new Stimulus Bill, it is my expectation and the last Bill you had $11
billion for clinical testing, I'm hoping we see $25 more billion applied to workplace opening and school opening screening and I think if the U.S.
makes an investment like that across the states, I think we are in a much, much better shape to do this.
And so to some degree, we have to do it by the fall as far as I'm concerned. You've got flu season and schools opening and if we don't do it,
we're not in a great place and I do believe a set of new technologies, things like what we are working on, with sequencing, but also using new
advances in CRISPR based of home care testing and things like that, some of those could come online in my opinion in time for the fall at that five
million to 10 million scale if we make the investment today.
CHATTERLEY: Wow. So, $25 billion you think would be enough to have us in a situation, where you could have -- and I know you're using equipment from
Illumina that make these DNA sequencing machines. You think we could actually have these in places to allow some kind of normality or return to
normality in the fall of this year?
KELLY: As far as I'm concerned, until widespread manufactured vaccines, screening is the only route to that. Even countries that got on top of it
early, look at China with Beijing now, the reality is, look, think of it like little fires on a bed of dry leaves, right, and certain countries were
able to put them out quickly, but they still have a big bed of dry leaves and we're going into the fall where this is going to spread at a higher
rate. People will be indoors.
If you have those fires pop up and you don't have the screening to go test and isolate those people and put those fires out, it's like you don't have
a fire department, right?
And so what our recommendation is, every country right now, really should be building a fire department to get ready for the fall even the ones that
have done a good job putting a lid on this so far because it's just the timing of the vaccines is hard to predict.
I think you have great companies working on it, AstraZeneca, others, but it's just -- they just aren't -- it's not a fast thing. It really is hard
to do it quickly.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, you raise a great point actually. This right now, is more important than the vaccine, quite frankly because we have to have a working
solution to get us back to life sooner than we can get a vaccine. We may never get a vaccine at all despite the optimism about the science here.
Jason, you mentioned talking to state officials, obviously, we have talked about colleges. What about the White House? What about at the congressional
level? Do they understand what you're saying?
KELLY: Yes. I think so. Yes, you just saw in the last couple of days the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S. announce some new guidance on how
to get a screening based test approved, an E.U.A. within the F.D.A. which is an Emergency Use Authorization for things like pooling, where you
actually take maybe five, maybe ten, maybe 50 samples and mix them together at the collection site and then run them all together and you can't say who
had COVID within that group, but you could say no one did or someone did.
And then if someone did, you would follow up with another test. Well, if we can get things like pooling online for screening that could bring down the
cost of screening tests dramatically. That's something that would never work for a clinical diagnostic.
If you're in talking to your doctor, you need a test. You didn't know if you have it. That's a one-to-one thing, but if you're going to work with
another hundred people, the timing and the epidemiology can work out. If it's unlikely that people have it, you all get kind of tested as a group.
You get that data back and if there is a hit, there is a follow up.
That sort of thing, I think that signal from the F.D.A. is partially because the Federal government recognizes this need for screening coming up
into the fall in the U.S.
CHATTERLEY: This is such a phenomenal idea. I had not had this discussion or read about this. Pooling, don't need to do the individual test, do the
pool and then work out whether you have to isolate and go through individually. It's a phenomenal idea.
KELLY: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Jason --
KELLY: I mean, the reason is -- Julia, we're all going through this for the first time. Right? You know, like the clinical diagnostic testing industry,
that is something that exists because people are getting sick all the time normally.
We haven't had a global pandemic that shuts down the world's economies in a hundred years, so none of the infrastructure exists to run an economy
underin that conditions, of course.
And so we need to bring online new technology. The F.D.A. has never approved a pool test, you would never need one, right, you never need to
test 10 million people a day, that's insane. Right, like -- but under the - - in a pandemic, it is very well --
CHATTERLEY: Major thinking outside of the box. I have to wrap you up there. We will get you back. Awesome to chat with you. Thank you, Jason Kelly, co-
founder and CEO of Gingko Bioworks. The market opens next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:33:38]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. stocks are up and running for the final session of this week and we're seeing strong gains across the
board in early trade, as you can see. Blue chips the out performers. The NASDAQ above 10,000 once again, closing in on record highs.
We've seen a bit of a tug-of-war all week between hopes for economic reopening and revival on the one hand and then on the other, there are
persistently high jobless claims in the United States and of course, fresh concerns about COVID-19 case risings.
We've got widely different forecasts from U.S. financial heavy weights, too. Take a look at this. JPMorgan Chase says one of its models shows an
almost 50 percent upside for U.S. stocks from here. Compare and contrast. Bridgewater's Ray Dalio is warning of a lost decade for stocks. He fears
we've reached a peak of globalization and we'll see a big drop in corporate profitability.
Now, if you're looking for a stock picks and meteoric rises, look no further than Arizona based Nikola motor. The company quietly listed on the
NASDAQ on June 3rd. Since then, the stock rose more than 100 percent with a market cap exceeding $23 billion. That makes the company more valuable than
Ford and Fiat-Chrysler, at least at times.
What's driving this investor optimism? Well, in part, its preorders of their sleek hydrogen powered hybrid trucks. The company says they represent
more than $10 billion in potential future revenue.
[09:35:08]
CHATTERLEY: The company's founder and executive chairman, Trevor Milton joins us now. Trevor, great to have you with us. All sorts of comparisons
naturally made with a combination of car tech company. The likes of Tesla of course, but actually, it's very different.
Explain the vision for Nikola.
TREVOR MILTON, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, NIKOLA MOTOR: Yes, it is really awesome. I mean, we targeted the second largest polluting industry
in the world, which is transportation, heavy duty transportation, and so that's where Nikola started. We build -- we're the first ever zero emission
semi-truck company in the world and what we do is cover both hydrogen and battery electric.
So we don't just build one. If you look at Tesla, they build one truck. It's just battery. Nikola builds both the hydrogen, electric, semi-trucks
and battery electric semi-trucks and they both have their advantages and disadvantages and so, we've wrapped up over $10 billion worth of potential
future revenue already in preorders for our truck and that's why I think people are excited about what we do.
CHATTERLEY: Why hybrid? Why use a combination of both. I mean, you've made the point that actually Tesla focuses on electric vehicles only. I mean,
Elon Musk has called the use of fuel cells using hydrogen staggeringly dumb. He calls them fool cells, too. Why do you think there is opportunity
in hydrogen where he doesn't?
MILTON: Yes, well, I mean, he doesn't use batteries to send rockets to space, right?
CHATTERLEY: Okay.
MILTON: So I mean, there is no like -- there is no -- one size does not fit all, and when you know trucking or transportation really well. Up to 300
miles, batteries work really well because they are very cheap to drive.
When you get over 300 miles, the weight becomes a disadvantage and so that's where hydrogen comes in and the unique thing about Nikola is, we're
the only company that I know of in the world that is fully vertically integrated. That means, we don't just provide the truck, we provide all the
hydrogen for it, too. We produce our own hydrogen through zero emission methods.
So, our supply chain is zero emission from production to consumption unlike anyone else in the world, and that's why there has really been so much
excitement.
One size just does not fit all in transportation, unfortunately.
CHATTERLEY: And this is one of the challenges as well with the electric is the charging stations. I know you have also got interest in the hydrogen
fueling stations, as well, which I think is your point about actually providing the power here, too.
MILTON: Yes, so I mean, there's -- as I said, there is advantages and disadvantages to battery and hydrogen. The disadvantage to batteries are is
it takes two to three hours to charge those massive battery banks on semi- trucks without damaging the batteries and sometimes that can -- you know, that turnaround time would kill you and it takes a ton of energy out of the
grid.
The advantage of hydrogen is you can turn that truck, you can fill it up in 15 minutes and then go on the road again and you can do that 24 hours a day
without ever stopping.
Hydrogen is produced over 24 hours of the day using all the peak load from solar. So, right now, throughout the world, like solar and wind energy, a
lot of it is just given away or they pay people to take it at their power companies because they have too much of it on the grid.
Hydrogen solves that problem by taking all that excess energy, producing hydrogen over 24 hours a day and then it just dispenses it in zero emission
hydrogen gas into the vehicle and that's why there's real good advantages to what hydrogen does.
CHATTERLEY: Explain the excitement, and is excitement about what might be ultimately because you haven't delivered a truck yet. You have lots of
preorders as I mentioned.
I want to tackle something that came up very recently and that was sort of an accusation dating back to 2016 from Bloomberg that you misled people
about the capabilities of the truck at that point. I know you've denied them.
Can you just explain where you stand at this point and just refute some of the allegations?
MILTON: Yeah, it was just really sad. I mean, Bloomberg -- this guy, well, he did a hit job on Nikola and he knew it was a lie because we recorded the
whole interview and we're going to post it out there for everyone to actually listen to. He knew it was a lie.
There are videos that show that we told people, hey -- I mean, his main claim was that the truck wasn't moving at Nikola World and in 2016 is what?
Four or five years ago. Our first prototype we ever built.
And we told everyone in the audience it was capable of moving, but we didn't want to because of the danger of it. So, all of the parts
functioned. You had batteries, you had motors, you had the axels, you had inverters. You had everything there. It was all there.
And instead of you know, taking a risk and possibly hurting or killing someone, we decided to make the truck inoperable on the stage and we never
-- you know, we never took it out on the road because it just wasn't safe.
So, we rebuilt a whole brand-new one and that's what we unveiled, you know that's what showed off and that's what you see video of our trucks driving
all over. We've done deliveries with Anheuser-Busch on the highways, on the main roads -- or downtown St. Louis.
So, it is really sad because like, there was clear evidence what he was saying was a lie. It was just a hit job. He is a very big Tesla fanatic.
He's in Tesla's back pocket, and so his entire job was to hit Nikola and try to stop our growth.
And I just -- you know, look, it's bad for all journalists. When one journalist begins to become -- advocating for one company or deceiving
people, I am going to call them out. I am not afraid.
[09:40:24]
MILTON: But I also love journalism. So, I just don't want people to act like that. You know, hit me for -- there's lots of things to hit me on. I
mean, for heaven's sake --
CHATTERLEY: He has made his accusations, you're responding and I know, you're suing them. So you'll battle it out. I do want to ask you though,
when are you going to deliver some of these trucks and when are you going to see revenues coming in?
MILTON: Yes, that's the number one question, and I think investors have been really -- when we went into this IPO, we told everyone, look, we're
more than a year out on revenue. Everyone knows that. It was in all of our disclosures, and investors are okay with that because we're changing the
entire world.
Like, we're literally -- they're saying if you're willing to go in and disrupt oil all together, we will give you one or two years. I mean, it
took Tesla what? Ten years to ever become -- even hit a profitable quarter almost.
So, they are like, you know what? One or two years, a couple of years, Trevor, we're totally there for you. And when does our revenue begin? Well,
our original filings were around the middle to end of 2021. With COVID, we don't know. There is a couple of months delay. We don't know how far, when
the markets will open back up.
We still can't get into Germany. That's where our factory is. So once all of the borders open up and our employees can start going back and forth,
we'll know that but we're -- there's a little bit of a delay, but it's not too bad.
You know, sometime in the end of 2021 beginning, sometime in 2022. It depends on COVID restrictions.
CHATTERLEY: Wow. It is going to be fascinating to watch. Trevor, great to have you on. Stay in touch and keep us updated on progress. Trevor Milton,
the founder and executive chairman of Nikola Motor.
MILTON: That was good. Thanks. Appreciate it.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. All right, still to come on FIRST MOVE, helping other black entrepreneurs succeed. We speak to one of the cofounders of a
fund run by and aimed at black business people. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:09]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE.
Empowerment through business investment. That's the credo of three successful black entrepreneurs who together founded Collab Capital, a new
Atlanta based fund with a target of $50 million to help black entrepreneurs launch successful tech business.
The aim, to expand the pool of investors from the traditional one, predominantly white and male. Collab Capital also differs from traditional
venture funds in that it favors profit sharing over giving capital in exchange for equity or a piece of the business.
Justin Dawkins is one of the managing partners at Collab Capital and he joins us now from Atlanta. Justin, great to have you on the show. Talk me
through why you and two other entrepreneurs decided that this was the right thing to be doing.
JUSTIN DAWKINS, MANAGING PARTNERS, COLLAB CAPITAL: Well, first, thank you so much for having me on. It's a pleasure on this beautiful Juneteenth.
The quick back story is we started our company around the same time in 2012 and we went on our own entrepreneur journeys, but we did it kind of side-
by-side, and so we built a really great friendship and rapport over the years and one of the things that we committed to after exiting our
businesses whether good or bad, we decided that the next crop of founders that came behind us, particularly black founders that came behind us to do
their -- to pursue their endeavors shouldn't start where we started. They should start where we left off.
And so part of that was ensuring that there was access capital. It was one of the things that we want to make sure that they had as they grew their
businesses.
CHATTERLEY: It's astonishingly bad when you look at the statistics for venture capital just in the United States alone, it is less than one
percent for black owners of businesses. That's huge opportunity that investors are missing out on, but also for the entrepreneurs involved.
Justin, why aren't they getting access to this money to help them grow their businesses?
DAWKINS: Great question, and the primary reason is access. It is a network game. It all about who you know with capital. The second thing is
diversification of ideas, right? So people build products out of the experiences they have in their workplace or in their lives and if you
aren't connected to individuals that have a similar lifestyle or similar upbringing or similar career path, you're not approximate to the problems
and therefore, you're not approximate to those that are solving those problems through their entrepreneurial endeavors, so access is the number
one reason.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. We see that often in Silicon Valley. Everyone invest in everyone else, so as you say, it's a network game and if you're not
accessing the pool, you can't achieve it.
Tell me what you guys do specifically and how you're doing in raising money.
DAWKINS: Yes, that's a great question. We started out with very similar to what founders would do with their friends and family around. So, we started
out with Atlanta and those that were approximate to us and we really wanted to focus on high net worth individuals who are accredited investors.
So, you're talking about athletes, entertainers, corporate executives that have built great organizations or they make their money in those ways and
so, we focused there to get them involved in the fund and now, we're expanding beyond that.
So, we're looking at family offices. We're looking at some foundations. So, we are raising capital from everything, from pension funds to high net
worth individuals and everybody in between.
So, we've been really, really persistent in telling the stories of black founders and some of the amazing products that they are building and
businesses they are building and that has really carried us quite a ways when people start to learn about some of the ideas that these resilient
black founders have.
CHATTERLEY: We've seen huge social change in the United States, I think at this moment. You mentioned Juneteenth, the day we celebrate the effective
end of slavery in the United States. It such an important day.
Do you think this helps you raise more money? Do you think what we're seeing now will help?
DAWKINS: I think it's a combination of things. I think it one part COVID. I think COVID slowed the world down just enough to pay attention to some
glaring, glaring huge problems and one of them systemic racism in the United States and yes, and then with the unfortunate killings of unarmed
black people and other things that the visibility was there. We were able to watch it all live.
Most people were at home watching it on whatever their connected device may be. It kind of hard not to pay attention ultimately. And so, it has been
very interesting. We've been able to share a lot of our story.
We've been working on this business for over two years, and so, the timing is very interesting, in that way, we are very mindful of the sensitivities,
but we also realized, a solution is needed, and so we're happy to lead in that and excited to talk to people about what we've been working on and
charting a path forward, so really excited about it.
[09:50:16]
CHATTERLEY: I love what you're doing. Investment and education is the key to unlocking and reducing some of these inequalities among other things.
Justin, stay in touch. We'll keep up-to-date on how you are doing with the fundraising and who you're helping. Great to chat with you.
DAWKINS: Absolutely.
CHATTERLEY: Justin Dawkins there.
DAWKINS: Thank you very much.
CHATTERLEY: Collab Capital. All right. We're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE.
But coming up, what's going on in London? Do not worry. This is not real even if it looks like it is. Excitement mounts on a couple of new video
games that take a tough look what might be the new future. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: A case of art imitating life. Well, maybe in the video gaming world at least. Two of the most anticipated releases this year are topical
to say the least.
"The Last Of Us" Part 2 is out today. It is set in a world struck by a global pandemic. There are zombies involved, however, and so that's where
the comparison fails.
It's one of the last big releases on the SONY PS 4 before its replacement comes along later this year. Take a look at this, too. It's London, but not
quite as we know it. You could say it's gone to the dogs. The game is called "Watchdogs Legion" and it is set in a grim post Brexit Britain.
I'd argue that both of these releases take game play to a whole new level. Clare Sebastian joins me now.
The Brexiteers are going to be angry with that, Clare, but that's the least of our worries. The graphics on these games are astonishing. I felt that it
was a video and I was looking. Talk us through what we're going to see.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think a lot of this, Julia is how the video game world is really starting to emulate Hollywood,
not only in the quality of the game, but the storylines you see.
And "The Last Of Us" Part 2 is actually out today. That is the second in a series, very long awaited. The first part of "The Last of Us" Part 1 was
out in 2013. It tracks the story of a parasitic fungus disease that really wipes out 60 percent of humanity. Now, the second part picks up.
There has been a lot of embargoes, but it's basically a revenge story and you see the sort of violence that emerges in the wake of it. I think to
call it violent would actually be an understatement. People have said they cried for an hour after playing the entirety of this game.
But it's extremely violent. It's extremely traumatic for people to play and I think the question is given how topical this is at the moment, is this
the escapism that the people are looking for or is it sort of asking game players to purge their worst fears about what is currently going on in the
world.
I think probably the former game players are really used to sort of apocalyptic visions of the future, and that the first part was extremely
popular. One of the bestselling games originally on the PS 3 and now the PS 4.
But as for "Watchdog Legions," this could be described as political. It does have Brexit as part of its backdrop.
[09:55:12]
SEBASTIAN: It sort of shows the worst case scenario of what could happen. London is transformed into this incredibly violent surveillance state where
zombies, sort of -- killer zombies rule and there are riots and it is really sort of how to form a resistance to take that back.
So, again, a lot to deal with for people who are going to play these games, "Watchdog Legions" though not out yet. We don't have a release for that.
CHATTERLEY: No. I can appreciate the graphics, but I think I'd rather watch "The Little Mermaid" quite frankly or "Frozen." Clare, talk to me about
Playstation 5 versus 4. Talk about the step up.
SEBASTIAN: Yes. It's a really big deal for Sony. PS 5 is going to be out this holiday season. We just got a bit of a reveal just over a week ago. We
saw some of the games that are going to be releasing with the PS 5.
Interestingly, "The Last of Us" Part 2 will also be available on the Playstation 5. It is sort of the swan song for the PS 4, but they are going
to make it available in the PS 5 as well, so that should be another lure.
Playstation 4 has really ruled over the video games world for the last seven years of this cycle and they are going to be going up against the
Xbox new console, the Xbox X Series this holiday season.
So, we await for a release date on that still, Julia. We still don't know the price. There is a lot at stake over the next few months for the video
game world.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's going to be fascinating to watch. Back to "The Little Mermaid." Clare Sebastian, thank you so much for that.
That's it for FIRST MOVE. Stay safe, everybody. Have a good weekend and we'll see you back here on Monday.
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[10:00:00]
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