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First Move with Julia Chatterley
U.S. Cases Hit Records Just Eight Days Away From the Presidential Election; Beijing Begins Mass Testing after Finding a Single Asymptomatic Case; European Governments Take Drastic Steps to Contain the Virus. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired October 26, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:09]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I am Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.
COVID crescendo. U.S. cases hit records just eight days away from the presidential election.
China's control. Beijing begins mass testing after finding a single asymptomatic case.
State of emergency. European governments take drastic steps to contain the virus.
It's Monday. Let's make a move.
Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Fantastic to have you with us as always as we head into a frightfully busy pre-Halloween period for global markets
and beyond.
Let me just walk you through this. More than 160 big U.S. firms set to report results over the next few days, including some of the pandemic
outperformers like Amazon, Apple, and Alphabet to name just a few.
October's trading also wraps up this Friday and finally, we have eight days, as I mentioned, until the U.S. Presidential election leaving little
time now for an emergency aid deal to be agreed beforehand, all of this amid the specter of rising COVID cases.
It is perhaps no surprise that stock market investors are on edge overnight and this morning. As mentioned, U.S. cases back to record levels.
The White House Chief of Staff yesterday all but conceding that the U.S. cannot control the pandemic. In the meantime, Spain and Italy both
announcing new restrictions to try to curb infections, too. I think there's a palpable fear that no economy can withstand a return to the mass
shutdowns that we saw earlier this year that would further hamper economic recovery and for businesses, of course, lower profits.
That's the case for European software giant, SAP. It is currently down some 26 percent plus after warning that COVID will impact sales well into 2021.
That weighing on the German DAX. Remember what we've been what have been saying: the virus will ultimately dictate the pace of economic recovery.
Dr. Anthony Fauci said over the weekend that we'll know by early December whether an effective vaccine is coming anytime soon. Positive news on some
of the vaccine trials here in the United States coming up later in the show, so that's something to hang on to, but we are well and truly back to
watching the science and the stimulus.
Let's get to the drivers. Christine Romans joins us now. Christine, great to have you with us. We are well and truly on the countdown now. We've got
U.S. cases accelerating. We've got European cases accelerating. Little hope, I think, of stimulus and then those comments from White House Chief
of Staff Mark Meadows over the weekend, too, Mark Meadows, forgive me, just listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We're not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines,
therapeutics and mitigation -- various --
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Why aren't we going to control the pandemic?
MEADOWS: Because it is contagious virus just like the flu.
TAPPER: Yes, but why not make efforts to contain it?
MEADOWS: Well, we are making efforts to contain it.
TAPPER: By running all over the country and not wearing a mask?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: If I were closer to the camera screen, Christine, I would head butt it, but I think there's a real recognition, I think, from investors
here that wherever you look, things aren't under control.
ROMANS: No, they're not under control. Every family knows that, too. We heard the President also this weekend, trying to just get over COVID and
even recently blaming the media for talking about COVID so much as a way to get him out of office and saying the day after the election, there will be
no more discussions of COVID. That's just not true.
Major companies, small businesses, families, schools. This is the driver of decisions in just about every level of decision-making in the United States
right now, and saying you can't contain it -- countries, companies, families are trying to figure out how to contain it on their own here.
So this is a really, really big factor heading into the fall, no question. The number one issue on everybody's minds here, you heard from SAP, we are
going to be watching all of these earnings coming through to see how dangerous this is on their bottom line or disruptive this is to their
bottom line.
We know, you know that women are dropping out of the labor force because schools are not completely up and running in where they are. They are
quarantined and the kids are having to go home.
So, this is quite frankly, just a mess that does need to be controlled, and it is a real risk eight days into the election about what the American
people feel about the government's handling of this as they cast their ballot.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and you and I talk endlessly about our concern over the fundamentals of the real economy, real people and the challenges this
presents, and yet, I was pouring over all sorts of research over the weekend, and it's funny, for most financial analysts out there, whichever
way this election goes, the belief is that look, actually, stock markets are going to be okay.
[09:05:10]
CHATTERLEY: A Democratic sweep means we get more spending, and we get it sooner rather than later; split government means the Democrats can't raise
taxes. What do we think of this?
ROMANS: You know, it is so risky to me because you've got what -- the S&P up seven percent this year and three percent I think this month, so it's
priced for those sort of scenarios already here.
So you know, there is always that risk. They vary the price for the best scenario and they don't get it. A contested election I think, the
conventional wisdom would be terrible. Right? A long drawn out legal battle would not be good.
But even today on the front page of the "Wall Street Journal," business warms a bit to Biden because he is not Bernie or a progressive, right, or a
real progressive socialist and business is starting to figure out how they could live with a pragmatic Joe Biden and how they could live with
potentially a Democratic sweep, I am not calling for that, but live without it because of the kind of spending it would eject into the economy, even if
he would raise taxes.
And they say if there's another Donald Trump administration, there would be more, you know, maybe more tax cutting, who knows. Maybe permanent tax cuts
for the middle class. He has dangled that before, although never followed through with that and maybe more deregulation.
So they could live with it both ways, I think, but again, with the S&P up seven percent this year and a three percent this month, this is why you see
people a little bit nervous right now when you get closer to the actual decision date.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and for our viewers, we are actually wearing different degrees of red tops here. You're not wearing rose tinted spectacles quite
frankly.
Relative economic stability is an economic policy now it seems. Fascinating.
Christine Romans, thank you so much for that.
It is just eight days until the presidential election, as we keep mentioning, this continues to be the coronavirus election. Vice president
Mike Pence set to remain on the campaign trail, that despite at least five of his aides contracting COVID-19.
He is expected in the Senate later for the vote to confirm Supreme Court nominee, Amy Coney Barrett.
Joe Johns joins us now. Joe, we have lots to discuss, but I want to hone in on what Christine and I were talking about there with the comments from
Mark Meadows over the weekend about not controlling the pandemic because I know you tackled the White House Director of Strategic Communications about
this and got some pushback. Talk us through it.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right. What you can say safely, Julia, is that the White House is already trying to do a clean-
up on aisle four, if you will, Alyssa Farah, the Strategic Director of Communications was out here on the driveway just a little while ago and I
did ask her whether the administration had essentially given up trying to control the pandemic and she said, absolutely not.
She said they are moving full speed ahead, but there's a big difference between what the administration says and what the administration does. For
example, what's pretty clear is the Vice President is not going to be engaging in the types of activities that his own Coronavirus Taskforce has
suggested in the event of close contact with a person who has coronavirus or has tested positive.
So the Vice President is in close contact with his Chief of Staff. That man's name is Marc Short. He has tested positive for coronavirus.
And so, the Vice President normally would essentially isolate himself for 14 days or whatever to make sure that there was nothing wrong, but what
this Vice President is doing is flying around the country, continuing to campaign for re-election along with the President. He is going to be in
three Midwestern states this week, and in Minnesota today, I believe.
So he is going to be campaigning and the point is the administration says he is an essential worker, which necessarily is true, as far as his
constitutional responsibilities are concerned, but he is not an essential worker when it comes to campaigning.
This evening, for example, one of his constitutional responsibilities would be to sit in the chair during the vote for Amy Coney Barrett and we expect
him to be there. In fact, Alyssa Farah said as much.
Again though, flying around the country and taking off the mask when he gives speeches, all the while knowing that he has been at least exposed to
Marc Short with whom he works very closely. You know that's a potential problem because it could be a few days before we know for sure the Vice
President is in the clear -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and you're certainly hearing noises of disquiet, let's call it that from the Democrats here as saying he doesn't need to be in the
Senate for that vote, why is he coming rather than taking greater precautions?
But Joe, I think there is also been criticism that actually, Senate Republicans have been far more focused on getting through the Supreme Court
nominee pick rather than being focused on the stimulus negotiations and willing to pass something to help American people and that's the sad fact
on where we stand today.
[09:10:13]
JOHNS: That's absolutely right and just to sort of to put exclamation point on that, there is a distinct possibility that here at the White
House, we will see yet another event in the Rose Garden this evening celebrating or commemorating the confirmation vote for Amy Coney Barrett,
and that will be the very same place where we had a super spreader event when the President first formally announced her as his pick to replace Ruth
Bader Ginsburg on the Courts.
So we are already seeing a push back from individuals who say it is not a good idea to participate in business as usual here at the White House or
anywhere else while we're still dealing with the pandemic -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Joe Johns, thank you for joining us there from Washington, D.C.
Now, as U.S. COVID cases surge to new highs, China embarking on its latest mass testing drive. The lockdown measures this time in the far western
region of Xinjiang. It comes as President Xi and Members of the Communist Party Central Committee meet in Beijing this week to discuss the nation's
next five-year plan.
Selina Wang is here with more. Selina, my understanding is one asymptomatic case is found and China goes into mass testing around five million people
in this region. Talk us through this.
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, it does feel a bit like deja vu. Just a few weeks ago, we were talking about China's mass testing drive
after just about a dozen cases were reported in Qingdao and then they tested more than 10 million people in just four days.
Now, this time, as you said, we are talking about a single asymptomatic case that was found in the Kashgar Prefecture. This is in Xinjiang. This is
the far western region of China. It is also where the U.S. State Department estimates that as many as two million Uighurs and other Muslim minorities
have been detained.
Now, after that single asymptomatic case, we saw China go on this mass testing drive. They are trying to test about five million people in a
matter of days. Now, they already traced that single asymptomatic case to a woman working in a garment factory.
Since the testing started, they've identified 137 asymptomatic cases. Now, it may seem like a small number of cases compared to what we're talking
about in other parts of the world, but Julia, that does amount to the highest number of daily COVID cases that China has had in about seven
months.
And we've really seen the strategy, Julia, just resemble what China is trying to do each time they have a small flare up. They will go into mass
testing, extreme contact tracing and lockdown. So these are swift and dramatic measures.
However, some experts have questioned some of the effectiveness and whether it is necessary to test an entire city all at once, since really, this is
just providing a snapshot since cases are normally found over a period of time.
So you even have someone at China's C.D.C. saying that it may not be necessary to test the entire city. They could do more focused testing
instead around the cluster and the people around that cluster.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and the number of times perhaps as well, but hey, it does look impressive when you compare it to the rest of the world.
Selina Wang, thank you for so much for that.
All right, let me bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories making headlines around the world. Governments across Europe ordering
sweeping new restrictions to combat the surge in coronavirus cases.
Spain has declared a state of emergency. Italy imposing new restrictions on restaurants, bars, gyms and cinemas, and France extending night time
curfews after reporting a record high number of new cases for the fourth day in a row.
Melissa Bell is in Paris for us. Melissa, and wherever you look it seems, some of these big nations in Europe, cases are accelerating.
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Europe is being particularly hard hit, Julia, by the second wave. Take France for instance,
you mentioned that extension of curfew, it has now 46 million French people living under curfews and the big question is whether they are going to work
in time.
Here in the Greater Paris Region, which is one of those areas that has been hardest hit, where the ICU are under greatest strain. What the head of the
region authority is warning is that it is by tomorrow or Wednesday that we are really going to have an idea of whether the curfews are having the
desired effect because here in Paris, they have been in place for more than a week.
But as you say, those rises continue to see record levels in terms of the number of new cases and that's what authorities are going to be looking at.
Also, worth noting, Julia, that although the number of new cases reached more than 52,000 yesterday, a fresh record, the head of France's Scientific
Council is warning that in fact, the figure could be double that. So we could in fact be seeing rises of 100,000 cases a day because of the number
of asymptomatic people, because not everybody bothers to get tested and that gives you an idea of how bad the figures are and how worried
authorities are.
You also mentioned also that extension in Spain of the state of emergency. Julia, that's been extended until May and that really gives you an idea of
how long authorities here in Europe are fearing that it might take to get things back under control.
[09:15:12]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, we shall see. Melissa Bell, thank you so much for that report there.
All right, we're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE, but still ahead, Biden or bust? Six former Secretaries of Commerce say he is the man to get
America's economy back on track. We speak to one of them about the how. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York where it is still looking like a soft start to the trading week -- the final trading
week of October. Negative news on global COVID cases hurting sentiment. Election timing, of course, and still ongoing uncertainties regarding more
financial aid for millions of Americans, too.
Deal-making though is pushing ahead. Bayer is buying privately held U.S. biotech firm, AskBio for some $4 billion. A big bet on the American firm's
gene therapies. Reports also saying that Dunkin Brands, the parent company of Dunkin Donuts is in talks to be bought out in a private equity deal.
Dunkin shares up -- wow -- some 18 percent premarket, too.
And in the meantime, IPO mania in full swing over in Asia, too. The Chinese Fintech giant, Ant Group priced shares for both at Shanghai and Hong Kong
listing today raising some $34 billion making it by far and away the biggest stock market listing in history. More on that dual listing later on
in the show.
But for now, let's bring it back to the U.S. election and in a boon to the Biden campaign, six former U.S. Commerce Secretaries are endorsing the
Democratic ticket in an open letter. It is signed by five Democrats and one Republican who say, quote, "We believe that a Biden presidency will mark
the return to the certainty and security that our economy needs to thrive."
Joining us now, Carlos Gutierrez, he was U.S. Secretary of Commerce under George W. Bush. He is the former CEO of Kellogg Company and current
Executive Chairman of software company, EMPATH.
Carlos, fantastic to have you on the show with us.
CARLOS GUTIERREZ, U.S. SECRETARY OF COMMERCE UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH: Pleasure. Thank you.
[09:20:10]
CHATTERLEY: Stability and economic policy there in your mind. Just explain why you signed this letter.
GUTIERREZ: Well, stability is, it means a certain amount of calm in the markets. It means not any abrupt decisions that moves the market up and
down. Today, there is a great deal of instability and instability makes the markets more volatile. As you know, no one really knows when people are
going to get back to work or when the economies are going to fully reopen. That is uncertainty.
Having a leadership stance on COVID and having a plan to really get rid of this virus, that would lead to stability. The last thing we have today is
stability. There's just too much, too many moving parts and the economy is suffering, the country is suffering, I believe our standing in the world is
suffering.
CHATTERLEY: We haven't really heard a concerted plan from the Biden campaign about what the plan would be to control COVID. Is it just an
assumption here that a Biden-led White House would do a better job than the Trump-led White House and in communicating a message down to the individual
states?
GUTIERREZ: Well, you know, I'm not a surrogate for Vice President Biden, but I will say that something as easy as the leader of the country wearing
a mask and constantly reminding people to wear a mask and constantly reminding people to take this seriously and constantly reminding people
that this is serious. That right there would be leadership.
Now, of course, we know that. There has to be a big plan. Hospitals are getting overrun. We don't have enough to eat. There needs to be a logistics
plan, a manufacturing plan, and a distribution plan. That comes below.
But just the mere fact of the leader of the country wearing a mask, telling people it's serious, that right there would be a huge thing.
CHATTERLEY: I appreciate your points well about not being a proxy here for the Biden campaign and the Commerce Secretary position, typically one of
the least politicized, actually, in a Cabinet.
Can I ask you what has been wrong specifically with the policies that the Trump White House has put into place and what you'd like to see reversed? I
mean, we can take it, taxes, China, you take your pick.
GUTIERREZ: Well, let's start with trade, and trade leads to China. The trade war with China has not been a success. It has been a disaster for
manufacturing. We continue to lose manufacturing jobs.
The great irony here is that these tariffs were put on to lower our trade deficit. Our trade deficit is up because manufacturing is moving from China
to other countries. So that's one thing. It is get back the trade.
We are suffering and somehow the President has tried to convince people that the tariffs that we pay, that consumers pay, that customers pay, they
are actually paid by China.
Now, if that goes into the U.S. economy. The U.S. economy suffers. Consumers suffer. Companies suffer.
So, I would start with trade policy. The trade policy over the last few years has been the farthest thing from the Republican administration as
I've seen and it hasn't really worked. I also think our policy on immigration is totally wrong because we need immigration to grow.
We don't have enough working age people going into sciences or going into low skilled labor. We need it all.
We need a system that is legal, that is organized, but the solution of just putting a halt to it is going to hurt the economy as well. Those two policy
issues, in addition to many Republicans dislike this white supremacy aspect of this campaign. The fact he has not really given any credence to the
George Floyd killing, that part of the social fabric of the country is being questioned.
We are saying this is not who we are. Of course, we don't want to be overrun by refugees, but that doesn't mean we have to put children in
cages. So there's a reckoning going on. I think people are realizing that this is not the U.S. they want.
There is a core base that will vote for the President. Call it 32 or 30 something. Aside from that where people outside of that who voted for him
in 2016, those are the people who are having second thoughts. Those are the people who are changing and saying, "I'm going for Biden this time."
The polls suggest that Biden is going to win -- and it is interesting, if you look back at 2016, what happened is pretty much what the polls said was
going to happen. So I would keep my eye on those polls because they've proven to be right.
[09:25:22]
CHATTERLEY: Carlos, I have about a minute left. It's looking like the big shift that will take place under a Biden White House, potentially a
Democratic shift in Congress as well is high tax rates. High tax rates for wealthier people and higher corporation tax rates.
Is that going to be okay or is that going to have an impact on economic growth in investment? What do you make of that?
GUTIERREZ: It's a good question, and I don't like taxes. I don't like higher taxes. I think higher taxes are bad for the economy, but the reality
is, we have the largest fiscal deficit that we've had since World War II. We haven't really talked a lot about that.
But we have a massive fiscal deficit. I don't know how you get rid of that without looking at taxes, without looking expenditures, without looking at
everything and that is going to be the real challenge, whether the person is left or right, they are going to have to fix that deficit. They are
going to have to get the economy on track.
So there's not a lot of room here for ideology. They may want to increase taxes on the richest, but that's not going to fix the deficit. It's a lot
bigger than that. So there's so much to do and I suppose taxes is one part of it. I don't think President Trump could get to this deficit without
raising taxes.
He wouldn't, but he would just let the deficit grow and grow and grow. Eventually, we have to deal with this.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the beauty of having the largest and deepest bond market in the world is that people keep buying at least for now. Not a lot of room
for ideology, I'll remember that. Carlos Gutierrez, great to chat with you sir. The former U.S. Secretary of Commerce. Fantastic conversation, thank
you.
All right, the market opens next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:30:06]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where the new trading week is under way on Wall Street. Supernova listing on the New York Stock Exchange there
and some high fives of celebration.
But as expected, we've got a lower open across the board here after last week's pullback for stock markets, too. Rising virus cases and a lack of
action on emergency aid in D.C. impacting sentiment today, too.
White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said a short while ago that talks between the White House and the Democrats have slowed, but are still
ongoing. I think a snail, quite frankly, would be quicker.
And as we mentioned before, shares of Chinese Fintech giant Ant Group could be in trading as soon as this week. Ant priced its shares today in both
Shanghai and Hong Kong. It's set to be the largest ever global IPO raising some $34 billion.
More on this mega IPO coming up on the show. For now, we will return once again to our top story today, a surge in COVID infections has brought
America's seven-day average of new cases to all-time highs.
A total of more than 8.6 million people have been infected since the start of the pandemic. The former head of the Food and Drug Administration says
the country is now at a dangerous tipping point.
Elizabeth Cohen is here. Elizabeth, some alarming numbers, eye watering numbers, in fact. Just talk us through exactly what we are seeing in terms
of new cases and if you can weave in hospitalizations too because I guess that's the next thing to watch.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. So what we watch for is new cases which sadly after a week or two leads to new
hospitalizations, which then in time leads to new deaths, and so what we're starting with right now is new cases and you want to talk about sobering,
take a look at this map.
What this map shows is that 37 out of the 50 U.S. states are experiencing rises in COVID. If you look at last week compared to the previous week, six
of the states are seeing really huge increases by more than 50 percent in just that one week.
In yellow, and so those states are in dark red and orange. If you look at yellow, the yellow states, those are 13 states that are holding steady. No
states are experiencing a decrease in cases. In no states are the number of COVID cases going down -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, very, very worrying. Elizabeth, offset that please with some vaccine news for us. We heard Friday, which feels like months ago
already, good news, it seems potentially for a trial restart for AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson here in the United States. What do we
know?
COHEN: That's right. Those two trials which hold such promise and just to back up for a minute, there are only four vaccines in clinical trials, in
Phase 3 clinical trials that's the large scale trials of tens of thousands of people. There's only four and two were on pause because participants had
become ill.
One participant in each trial and they were looking at those illnesses and trying to figure out, gee, is this because of the vaccine or not? So that's
not great to have half of your trials on pause, but as you said on Friday, they came off pause.
So, let's take a look at those dates because that tells you something about the progress of those trials. If we look at AstraZeneca, that's one of the
two, they started on August 31st in the U.S. and they paused on September 9th. So they were just on for a little over a week before they went on
pause.
Johnson & Johnson started September 23rd, and paused October 12th, so they were in progress for not even three weeks before they went on pauses. So,
the U.S. Food and Drug Administration here in the U.S. is basically saying, look, we looked at these illnesses and we decided that it doesn't look like
they are connected to the vaccine, so we're going to let these trials continue.
I will tell you that sources tell me there will be a lot of eyes on the trials to make sure that other people aren't getting sick. If they do, if
other participants in the trial get sick and if they are similar to the illnesses that we have seen more, that is for sure a red flag -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the scrutiny doesn't get higher from any of us, quite frankly, at this point. And Elizabeth, while I've got you, we were talking
earlier on in the show about Mike Pence and the fact that a number of people around him, in close contact with him had tested positive over the
weekend for COVID-19. We have some news, I believe, on his latest test results.
COHEN: Well, so there is this this group around --
CHATTERLEY: So, I am hearing that I know and you don't know. Apparently, he tested negative, which is good news. The joys of breaking news.
COHEN: Right, exactly, exactly. So that is good news that he tested negative, and I'm sure that they will continue to test the Vice President.
When you get sort of so many people in his orbit who are testing positive, it certainly gives one pause. It makes you think of what happened with
President Trump.
He had several people sort of in his group who had tested positive and unfortunately, he tested positive, although he then, of course, fortunately
did recover. So I am sure, speaking of scrutiny, there will be a lot of scrutiny, a lot of tests for Mike Pence in the future to make sure that he
hasn't also come down with COVID.
[09:35:22]
CHATTERLEY: I am going to continue to check it, no doubt. Elizabeth, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for that. Elizabeth Cohen, thank
you.
All right, up next, the City in California is handing out $500.00 a month in cash in a daring trial of universal basic income. It's the first in
modern U.S. history and we'll speak to the city's mayor who has pioneered it. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. As millions of unemployed Americans await news on more financial aid from the Federal government, the
City of Stockton in California is extending in a pioneering experiment with universal basic income. One hundred and twenty five recipients get $500.00
a month in cash with no strings attached.
The man behind the program is the Mayor, Michael Tubbs. He was born and raised in Stockton and is the subject of the HBO documentary "Stockton on
My Mind." Tubbs studied at Stanford University, interned at the Obama White House before becoming the youngest mayor of a major U.S. city at the tender
age of 26.
I'm very excited to say, joining us now is Michael Tubbs, the Mayor of Stockton.
Mayor Tubbs, fantastic to have you on the show. I have to say, I watched that documentary and I was completely blown away, but I just want to
rewind. What does it take for a person who has got the world at his feet, having left university and going, you know what? I know what I'm going to
do. I am going to go back and make a difference to where I grew up at 26 years old. Talk us through it.
MAYOR MICHAEL TUBBS (D), STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA: Well, I grew up in Stockton, so much of the narrative was to be successful meant you had to
leave. So I was accepted to Stanford, I was the first within my family to go to college.
I thought I had did just that, and I had no interest in coming back, but it was while interning in the White House, one of my cousins was a victim of a
homicide. He was murdered in Stockton and it was that grief, that anger, and that pain that made me think about sort of, what if this tragedy, there
was some purpose to come from it?
So after a lot of soul searching, a lot of arguments with my mom who didn't want me to come back, I decided to run for City Council. That's been four
years on City Council and realized that government can't do everything, but there is a role of government to play and that's why I decided to run for
mayor four years ago.
[09:40:43]
CHATTERLEY: It is fascinating and we'll talk about your mother and the impact that the women in your life have had because that's another, I
think, really important angle here. But Michael, just describe the challenges and the conditions because when I was just Googling about the
City of Stockton, what comes up on Google is crime rates, poverty, some of the major challenges that we talk about all the time, not just in the
United States, but elsewhere in the world.
You had a lot of challenges that you had to face in the city.
TUBBS: Actually, Stockton is ground zero, I think, for American life. We are the most diverse city in this country, but we also have some real
structural challenges. Growing up in poverty, the City of Stockton is not unique to me. There's a lot of young people in our community who even still
grow up in poverty.
The murder of my cousin wasn't necessarily unique to me, but for most of the past 30 years, we've been double or triple kind of state average in
homicide. So I think when I ran for office for City Council, we had just declared bankruptcy, we are the most miserable city, but in the past eight
years, we have made significant strides.
I think that the statistics give me the courage to be bold into leading and so we try to do things differently. We saw in 2018 and 2019, a 40 percent
reduction in homicides. We now give scholarships to every student who graduates from the largest school district, we have the Stockton Scholars
Program. We are piloting basic income. We are now the second most fiscally healthy city.
So it is not Disneyland, but we are making progress in strides, but to your point, a lot of it just comes from a very visceral and lived experience
with the challenges and wanting to do everything collectively in our power to actually upset the setup, as we say, and change these outcomes for our
children.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and I am sorry about the loss of your cousin as well. Talk to me about pioneering universal basic income, because this is just
one piece of all the changes I know that you've made but you were like, actually, $500.00 a month extra to some people and some families could make
all the difference. Just explain your thinking on this and the impact that it had.
TUBBS: Well, I learned about basic income or guaranteed income from studying Dr. King who talked about this in 1967 in his last book, "Where Do
We Go From Here?" And he talks about how we try to solve poverty by solving for other challenges, by solving for education, by solving for healthcare,
by solving for housing which is all important work that has to be done, but he said, the most simplest way to abolish poverty is the most direct: a
guaranteed income.
And ever since reading that, I have been fascinated with the idea and figuring out why haven't we at least tried it on that scale in this
country? And as you mentioned some of the statistics in Stockton, I truly believe that A, poverty is the root cause of all the issues we complain on
Facebook about and all of the issues we tweet about, all of the issues where we are upset with each other about.
And I also recognize that as someone who grew up in poverty that poverty isn't about individual choices. It's about wider system policy choices. I
think we see that so clear now during COVID-19 where we have billionaires who have tripled or doubled their wealth, companies are more profitable
than ever, while we have working people who are in food lines, where we have millions of people who are now food insecure.
We have eight million new people in poverty, and that's backdrop that led me to just try to do a guaranteed income pilot where we give $500.00 a
month for the last 22 months to families in Stockton, and part of it was rooted in this notion that $500.00 may not even be enough. It's definitely
not enough to replace work. It's definitely not enough to have them equate to try to be resourceful and industrious, it is but enough to provide an
income floor.
It is enough to allow folks to build economic resilience. It is enough to allow work to go further to give people the dignity that comes with agency
in terms of the choices they make and how to use their time, if they have to work two jobs, if they have to stay in a bad job they don't like.
I also think it gives honor to caregivers and particularly, most of whom are women who are home doing domestic work, who are doing child rearing
work and who aren't compensated for that hard work.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and we also -- there's a racial component here as well and we know that the income gap is disproportionate. So when you give
$500.00 to people, it sort of brings up particularly for the racial aspect, it brings up those minority families as well, which I think is so
important, and I know you talk about this.
But I want to talk to you about the fact that it is income. It's not wealth, and if we really want to make huge changes and I've seen you talk
about this before, we have to give people the ability to build wealth, ultimately, and it sort of ties to, I know, your passion for education as
well, and the three mums, your aunt, your grandmother and your mother, and why they made such an important piece of your upbringing about education.
[09:45:40]
TUBBS: Yes. Absolutely, and I tell people all the time, I appreciate the question. Income and wealth are different, and a guaranteed income or a
basic income is not going to solve every challenge. I think it's an effective one to solve for the income gaps and for poverty, and I think
once people build the floor, they can do things that it takes to create wealth.
I know that people -- research suggests that kids who have more money, whose parents aren't economically anxious, who grew up in more stable
environments, not surprisingly, do better in school. Not surprisingly, have higher educational attainment.
It's not because the kids are inherently smarter or inherently more hardworking, it is because those kids are in the more stable environment
where the basic necessities of food, of a safe space to study during COVID- 19 times, the ability to have access to high quality Wi-Fi allows them to do well in school.
So absolutely, I think a guaranteed income is the first step to get into the deeper conversation about kind of wealth inequalities and figuring out
how we reverse some of the wealth gaps we see amongst the races, which are as bad as they have been at any time in this nation's history post-slavery.
So, that's definitely another challenge we have to address.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and worsened throughout the pandemic as well and that's ultimately what we've seen. Michael, I know you've put together, I believe,
25 city mayors to talk about this concept and to explain to them, I think, what difference this can ultimately make.
Do you think it works on a greater scale? Is it something you could perhaps say to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and say, guys, look at what we're doing
here? We need to be having a more focused conversation about this. Is that going to be part of the plan?
TUBBS: I am absolutely wholeheartedly, a hundred percent committed that the Federal government has to make guaranteed income a policy. At the very
least, as part of our COVID-19 pandemic response. I'm joined, as you mentioned, with mayors from the Mayors of Guaranteed Income Network, mayors
across this nation who say our constituents need the dignity of having an income floor, our constituents have dignity and because of that, we have to
treat them in ways that reflect that dignity and luckily for us, Senator Harris has a bill in Congress now that speaks to sort of $2,000.00 a month
in COVID-19 response.
And Senator, I mean, Vice President Biden has talked about how he sees this as an FDR -- his New Deal moment and that makes me excited because I
realized that in 2020, the sum total of our pandemic response has been one- time stimulus checks and then unemployment insurance which was a bold radical idea in 1935, eighty five years ago.
This is 2020. I don't use a 1935 phone. My car was not -- in 1935, I didn't have the car I had. This computer wasn't even invented in 1935 or at least
the Wi-Fi we use today, so we have to have a social safety net that's reflective of 2020 realities.
So I'm working hard for Joe and Kamala. I fully expect them to win. And as soon as they are elected, I will begin my efforts of lobbying and saying,
this is what the American people need. This is the New Deal, an extension of the social safety net that again, reflects the dignity of all people.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, radical new ideas, and not so radical, quite frankly. That's what we need.
Michael, fantastic, fantastic chat with you. Come back and talk to us soon, please.
Michael Tubbs, the Mayor of Stockton in California. Great to have you on the show, sir, thank you.
TUBBS: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: All right, coming up, a king-sized IPO for Ant. How the Fintech giant pulled off the biggest public offering on record, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:51:22]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Chinese tech mogul, Jack Ma savoring victory today. He is about to pull off the biggest global IPO ever
raising some $34 billion for his Fintech firm, Ant.
Ant priced its shares today meaning they could be in trading on both the Shanghai and Hong Kong Stock Exchanges very soon.
Paul La Monica joins us now. Paul, I don't know whether there's a such thing as a mammoth ant, but this is a monster IPO, like we said, it is
going to be the biggest one ever.
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, it is topping Saudi Aramco, which was about $29 billion and what was interesting is, you know, keep in
mind, you just said they are going to be trading in Hong Kong and Shanghai, not New York even though Alibaba is listed on New York's Exchanges.
So it's an interesting move to see that this is bypassing Wall Street in favor of listing in Hong Kong and Shanghai.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that's the key. And probably likely to be the key, no matter who wins the election quite frankly as a result of the tensions.
What more do we know about this IPO and how soon could we see it up and running?
LA MONICA: Yes, I think we are expecting a listing within the next few weeks now that we have the pricing and Ant Financial is -- Ant Group owns
Alipay and it is a gigantic company in the world of financial services technology. It is generating a lot of revenue and big profits as well.
So I think it is going to be interesting to see if this IPO really does attract a lot of interest from investors around the globe, because unlike a
lot of the unicorns that have gone public in the past couple of years here in America, this is a profitable company that has obviously the backing of
Jack Ma and a great brand name behind it.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, absolutely. And to your point, even though it's not listing here in the United States, it doesn't mean the international
investors and U.S. investors can't get access to it. They just have to invest over in Shanghai or Hong Kong.
Just out of interest, just to give you a sense of the broader valuation of the business, it priced a level that values the company at $313 billion.
MasterCard's value is $330 billion at Friday's close. To your point, this is a monster company.
LA MONICA: Yes, it is a giant of global finance and clearly, it is going to be something that people will be watching very closely to see if it
widens that market cap lead over the likes of MasterCard and Visa and you know, everyone is watching Alibaba which is approaching a trillion dollar
market valuation in its own right.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think we get to call a Jack Ma a legend now. He is not a mogul, he is a legend.
Paul La Monica, thank you so much for that.
All right, a reminder of the breaking news this hour. The U.S. Vice President's office says Mike Pence and his wife, Karen tested negative this
morning for coronavirus. This, of course, in light of a number of aides surrounding him having tested positive for COVID over the weekend.
The Vice President said he would preside over tonight's Senate vote to confirm Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court, but the White House Chief
of Staff says those plans remain in flux.
Now, as for President Trump, he is en route to Pennsylvania, one of the most crucial swing states in the country. He left the White House a few
moments ago.
And finally, it is one small step for a voter hoping to inspire a giant leap for the U.S. electorate.
An American astronaut on the International Space Station is proving there is no excuse not to vote if you're able to. She cast her ballot more than
300 kilometers above Earth.
[09:55:05]
CHATTERLEY: Remember that in 2016, U.S. voter turnout was almost at its lowest in two decades. Kate Rubins explains how she can make her voice
heard even in a place where sound doesn't carry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATE RUBINS, NASA ASTRONAUT: There is legislation passed a number of years ago to allow astronauts to vote in space. I think a lot of astronauts do
this. They feel that it is very important. It is critical to participate in our democracy.
We consider it an honor to be able to vote from space, and so we fill out a form and we vote via absentee ballot and I plan on doing that in November.
I think it's really important for everybody to vote and if we can do it from space, then I believe folks can do it from the ground, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: You're certainly socially distant in space, I have to make that point. That's it for the show. You've been watching FIRST MOVE.
Thank you so much for joining us and we will see you same time, same place tomorrow. Stay safe.
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[10:00:00]
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