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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Global Stocks Fall Amid A COVID Case Surge; European Leaders Take Steps To Contain The Virus; CEOs Of Facebook, Twitter And Google Facing Lawmakers Over Liability Laws. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired October 28, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:24]

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here's your need to know.

Risk off reality. Global stocks fall amid a COVID case surge.

Restrictions re-imposed. European leaders take steps to contain the virus.

And tech titans testify. CEOs of Facebook, Twitter and Google facing lawmakers over liability laws.

It's Wednesday, let's make a move.

Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE this Wednesday, just six days to go now before the U.S. presidential election, and some 68 million Americans have

already cast their ballots. Just to give you some perspective, that's over half of all votes cast back in 2016. It's an incredible early turnout. It

is also raising big questions about how long it's going to take for those votes to be counted.

As the days to November 3rd grow fewer, the number of COVID cases in the United States and across Europe grow greater and that's providing, as I

mentioned, a reality check, I think, for investors. Futures at this moment, down some two percent premarket. They're adding to yesterday's losses for

the Dow and for the S&P 500.

European stocks, meanwhile, have now hit four-month lows as France and Germany prepare new emergency restrictions. The German DAX is off -- let's

take a look -- almost four percent at this moment. Corporate America acknowledging the uncertainty, too.

Blue chip Caterpillar, one of those warning that sales are falling, as health concerns mount. Shares tumbled over three percent in yesterday's

trade. What about today? Before the bell, well, Boeing's Q3 numbers actually better than dire predictions made and expected but still an over

loss of more than $400 million on the quarter, adding to the pain, too, the risk that a further 11,000 workers may be shed by the end of 2021.

Uncertainty, is the watch word here. No sector is immune though. Even the tech.

Microsoft revenues and earnings beating expectations after the bell yesterday, but the outlook was weaker and investors seemingly reducing

their positions a little today, as you can see there. More signs of uncertainty.

Let me walk you through it. The VIX Volatility Index. The market's so- called fear gauge is now lying at a 7-week high. We are also seeing a flight to the safety of the U.S. dollar. Also bond prices moving higher, so

interest rates yields coming lower.

Growth sensitive oil prices also falling. Brent crude down almost four percent. Investors and more importantly, I think, businesses and consumers

would be in a far stronger position if Congress had acted to pass new emergency aid. They failed at the worst possible moment.

Let's get to the drivers. Christine Romans joins me now. Christine, a reality check, I think, for investors. You and I have been saying it

Monday, we were saying, we were in rose-tinted spectacle and, no longer.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: No, and we have a virus surging really around the world. When you look at these

lockdowns that are expecting to have reinforced in parts of Europe. You have U.S. cases, one economist this morning saying you'll have record

hospitalizations at this pace in the U.S. by Thanksgiving. That disrupts daily life. That disrupts business as usual.

And you cannot have an economic recovery that is robust when you have a virus that is simply not contained in so many important parts of the

economies around the world and that is what the fear is here.

There's also, I think a very maybe, a much smaller fear, but something I have been hearing people talk about it, all of this voting that you talked

about, this early voting in the U.S., it will take time to count all of those votes and the longer it takes to count all those votes, the more

uncertainty or the more oxygen it could give to conspiracy theorists and the likes, people and troublemakers in the United States who want to cast

doubt on the outcome, maybe contest the election.

So that's -- I would say that's a distant second to the concerns of coronavirus and what it means for the economic recovery this morning.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, but it is a real risk and I think this is something that finally, just a few days out from the election, we've been talking about it

for a long one now is seemingly dawning on investors, in addition to the fact that the safety net, the money that people were hoping for from

Congress now has been well and truly marked off the list as potential support factors.

ROMANS: And the timing of it is just so critical, I mean, you're looking at the end of the year when these rent moratoriums, right, expire and you've

got people who will owe thousands and thousands of dollars at the end of the year in rent and the disruption that could have in the housing market

if people are thrown out of their rental units or what that means for the owners of the rental units, right?

So there is a real estate factor here that's kind of hanging here. All of these industries that have been begging Congress for help, now face the

real threat of tens of thousands of more layoffs. So, this is a moment here where Congress could have put shock absorbers on this car, as it's still

trying to climb out of the ditch and they didn't. They didn't put shock absorbers on the car. All of us are going to feel it.

[09:05:40]

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that includes S&P 500 companies in particular. I'll throw in one more thing. Greenlight Capital, David Einhorn saying that

look, Big Tech stocks are in a bubble at this moment as well. And this is one of the key pillars that's held the stock markets up, compare and

contrast with the financials which have been crushed over the last nine months. This is another important --

ROMANS: Yes, so much of the rally this year has been driven by those tech stocks, you know, which also reveals, I think, maybe that the stock market

wasn't really as optimistic as maybe it appeared about getting through this virus. It was driven so much by the techs.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, so important. Christine Romans, thank you so much for that.

Almost three million coronavirus cases have been reported worldwide just in the past seven days. In Europe, a number of countries reporting record

rates of infection including Belgium, Germany and Poland. Over in France, President Macron set to announce new measures after authorities reported

the highest tally of deaths in a single day since April. Melissa Bell has the details.

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Julia, Europe continues to battles that second coronavirus wave that has hit this continent so hard. Once

again, over the course of the last 24 hours, record daily increases in countries like Greece, Sweden, Germany, and Italy.

We expect that by the end of the week, fresh restrictions will be announced in Belgium and Germany as well where Angela Merkel has been meeting with

the leaders of the country's Federal states.

Here in France as well, Emmanuel Macron has been holding emergency meetings yesterday and today. This evening, he'll take to French television to make

an announcement with lots of speculation about how far these newest restrictions will go.

It's been a couple of weeks now since the curfews have been in place. They have not brought the figures under control. We saw once again, announced

last night, another record here in France, the number of people who died over a single 24-hour period, Julia, 523.

Hence the fresh announcements tonight. Lots of speculation that Emmanuel Macron could even go so far as the second national lockdown.

CHATTERLEY: Melissa Bell reporting there, and just to illustrate how bad it is there, let me give you this chart showing the average number of new

cases per one million people in the population. Now, by this metric, cases are far higher in France actually than they are in the United States. So

this is population adjusted.

Still, here in America, we're seeing almost 70,000 new cases now a day. CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. Great to have

you with us, Elizabeth.

I just wanted to compare and contrast there to show simply how bad Europe's second wave is, but even here in the United States once again, Elizabeth,

we are weeks behind here and our situation already escalating and clearly alarming.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Julia. The problem is the numbers are going in the wrong direction. It's not just that

it's bad, it's that it is headed in the wrong direction.

Let's take a look at the math of the United States. If you look at the states that are in orange or dark red, those are states where the rates are

going up. In five states, the ones in dark red, they are going up by more than 50 percent. So this is 40 states out of 50, it's going up. Only in

nine states are the rates steady and in one state, that state in green, is going downwards, so only one state is going in the right direction.

And sadly, hospitalizations and then death, you know, tend to follow once you get these numbers up -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we see a sea of red there. It doesn't look good. I just want to clear something up as well, Elizabeth, the White House yesterday,

listing one of their big scientific achievements as ending the pandemic. Just so that I am clear, has the pandemic ended, Elizabeth? Yes or no.

COHEN: No, and you don't need me to tell you that, right? The pandemic has not ended. It is -- how can they possibly claim that? Not only has it not

ended, but as we just saw from this map, it is not even headed in the right direction.

You know, it sort of reminds me of a child who says something and hopes it comes true, like "I'm getting a pony for my birthday." No, you're not

getting a pony for your birthday, but children are children. We don't expect grown-ups to just say things like, "Oh, the pandemic ended. Yay for

us." It's simply not true, it is wishful thinking.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we're not talking about politics here. We're simply talking about truth and we are talking about the data.

COHEN: Right.

CHATTERLEY: Speaking of data, talk to me about this Spanish study that looked at the importance, perhaps, of Vitamin D or specifically Vitamin D

deficiency in certain patients.

[09:10:15]

COHEN: Yes, this is interesting. So, at this hospital in Spain, they looked at COVID patients and they looked to see whether they had a vitamin D

deficiency or not.

So let's take a look. They found that among nearly 200 COVID patients, 82 percent were vitamin D deficient. Now, a lot of people are vitamin D

deficient, so they looked at people who were not COVID patients and 47 percent had the deficiency.

So, significantly more COVID patients had a Vitamin D deficiency than people who did not have COVID. So vitamin D, we know may impair -- or

vitamin D deficiency, I should say, may impair the immune system. So what the researcher said is, look, vitamin d supplements might be helpful for

some people.

They didn't recommend that we all go out there and take vitamin d supplements, but they said it should be considered perhaps, for say,

residents of nursing homes who we know have a double risk. They have a high risk of being vitamin d deficient and they also have a high risk of getting

COVID -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, because vitamin d can be toxic in too high concentrations as well, but very important, the idea of boosting immune systems to help

fight this, too. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that.

COHEN: Thanks.

CHATTERLEY: All right, Facebook CEO, Mark Zuckerberg wants the U.S. Liability Law protecting free speech on the internet to be updated. He'll

be grilled soon along with other tech CEOs in a Senate hearing on the future of the law called Section 230 which protects the website's ability

to moderate content as they see fit.

Donie O'Sullivan joins us now. Donie, and therein lies the problem, "as they see fit." They are using their discretion right now and there are

plenty of people who say this law needs to be tightened and it seems with caveats, including Mark Zuckerberg.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Absolutely, Julia. I mean, this is a fundament law of the internet. It has allowed companies like Facebook to

grow to having billions of dollars in profits because it essentially protects from liability from what their users post.

If you think about it, if these companies are liable for what their users post, they would have to employ a lot more moderators and do a lot more

watching of what is happening on the platform to make sure they can't with sued.

Also, the flipside of that, though, of course if that if they over moderate, if they sort of have to get into a position where they almost

have to review a tweet before somebody sends it, well, that sort of stifles expression and speech and just overall engagement on the platform.

And Mark Zuckerberg in his testimony today, here is what he is saying. He is saying, "Section 230 ensured important values like expression and

openness were part of how platforms operate. However, I believe Congress should update the law to ensure it is working as intended," and Julia, this

is one of the few areas where Trump and Biden actually agree.

Both of them want to get rid of Section 230, but for very different reasons. Trump wants less moderation because as you see, sometimes his post

gets removed, sometimes, they get labeled as misinformation and Bidens wants more moderation so that these platforms take more responsibility for

the hate and for the disinformation on their platforms.

It's not clear though, Julia, if by removing this law or by changing this law, either Biden or Trump's objectives would be achieved here.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and right now, it's a free for all. It is a liability shield, quite frankly, for these Big Tech companies and they need concrete

guidelines on what is allowed and what isn't, and until we get to that point, and I have to say, the skeptic in me says we're nowhere near that

today quite frankly, Donie. But my fear with this hearing today is it gets used.

To your point, the politics come into play here, and those that say, hey, certain parts of a political speech and views are suppressed by some of the

tech giants. What's the prospect of this being hijacked by House Members of the Republican Party specifically?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, I think we would be doing a disservice to our viewers if we were to say this is going to be a substantive hearing today. It is six

days out from Election Day here in the United States. This is going to be a partisan spectacle.

On the right, let me just show you what Senator Ted Cruz, a Republican, by the way, who is on this committee today is advertising this event like it's

a boxing match. "Cruz versus Dorsey: Free Speech Showdown." The free speech champion who apparently is Ted Cruz, takes on the czar of censorship.

So, you see that this is just going to levels of even new levels of ridiculousness that we are going to have seen in the previous Big Tech

hearings. And you know, the big question Republicans are going to be asking is, they are very, very obsessed about how Twitter, Jack Dorsey, the CEO of

Twitter -- how Twitter handled that "New York Post" story, the unsubstantiated story about Joe Biden.

Democrats, on the other hand, are going to be asking Mark Zuckerberg a whole ton of questions about why aren't you fact-checking ads from

politicians? Why aren't you doing more about President Trump?

So you know, I think this is going to be a sort of showcase in political partisanship just a few days out from the election and the three tech CEOs

are going to have to sit through it all.

[09:15:13]

CHATTERLEY: Yes. A show of all talk and no action, Donie. How unlike U.S. Congress.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, you're right.

CHATTERLEY: Moving on. Yes. Thanks, Donie.

The hearing starts in around 45 minutes and we stream it live on CNN Business. Later on in the show, too, we'll hear from a man whose life has

been turned upside down by a baseless conspiracy theory spread on social media. And actually, it was a lot of Donie's work that led us there, so

that interview coming up.

For now, we are going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE.

The deciding vote in the U.S. elections could be cast in the Supreme Court rather than the booth, so says Nobel Laureate, Paul Krugman. He joins us to

discuss the possible case around mail-in ballots.

And snapping up Crocs. The shoemaker reports record revenues as shoppers go for casual during the COVID-19 lockdown.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York where U.S. futures remain their session lows as the selloff in stocks accelerates.

Numerous concerns as we've discussed for investors here. Fresh COVID cases hitting record levels in the United States.

Almost 70,000 new cases a day and 36 states seeing a rise in hospitalizations. Never mind the concerns that we are seeing across Europe,

too. All of this with just six days to go before the November 3rd presidential elections.

More than 68 million votes have already been cast. More than half of the total votes done some four years ago in the 2016 election, some states

don't start counting mail-in ballots until Election Day, meaning it may take days for a winner to be declared.

Over the past five sessions, the S&P has lost more than 1.5 percent. It's down now some five percent from record highs. So actually, relatively

little. Those losses though, expected to get much steeper at the open today as market concerns mount.

Economist Paul Krugman joins us now. He is Nobel Laureate and columnist for "The New York Times." Paul, fantastic to have you with us as always. You

know, ordinarily, if we were talking about 68 million people heading to the polls early, we would be excited about the enthusiasm about what we're

seeing, but you grow increasingly concerned. Just explain why.

[09:20:28]

PAUL KRUGMAN, ECONOMIST AND NOBEL LAUREATE: Okay. I mean, this is going to be a very weird election. The coronavirus has scrambled a lot of things.

The coronavirus has almost certainly moved the election heavily against Trump. It's actually very hard to see how he could win now if all the votes

are counted.

But it has also raised the strong possibility that all the votes will not be counted because we have a lot of mail-in votes. In many states, those

votes won't start to be counted until Election Day, so we won't have a full total. And it looks as if because of -- accepting the reality of the

pandemic has itself become a partisan issue.

The mail-in votes are going to be more Democratic than the in-person voting, and so we have the real possibility now that we'll have an election

in which very likely was in fact won by Joe Biden, but where the Trump administration and possibly this now six to three conservative court try to

stop the counting of ballots before it's over and that's crazy.

I mean, there are all kinds of reasons among other things, it is crazy for the economy. We will have -- a real nightmare scenario is, maybe not the

most likely outcome, but likely enough to give me the willies.

CHATTERLEY: Okay, let's unpack this, because there's a lot in there, particularly for an international audience. What you're saying is, your

assumption, is that by far, the greater proportion of Democratic voting, as in the party voting, people will do so by mail-in rather than turning up at

the polls on the day.

And the risk is that we have some kind of contested election scenario after November 3rd. The Supreme Court now weighs in and goes, okay, you've got a

limited time to count these votes, and if you don't count them all, they will no longer qualify, and that could harm the votes for Joe Biden.

KRUGMAN: That's right. I mean, now, one scenario that -- it's very much state specific. So Florida counts everything. It has started counting

already and if Biden wins Florida, then the thing will be over Tuesday night and we'll know who won.

But Pennsylvania, although being -- the Republican legislature has voted to prevent any examination of the ballots -- of the mail-in ballots until

Election Day, and that means that the count will drag on for quite a while. So what if Florida -- what if Trump wins Florida? Pennsylvania, by normal

accounting, is, in fact, the swing state.

As Pennsylvania goes, so goes the nation; if Trump wins Florida. But Trump has won the election. They vote but we know that there is a large number of

Democratic mail-in ballots still to come. And on one justification or another, the Supreme Court stops the counting of ballots. That would be a -

-

CHATTERLEY: How high is that probability, Paul, in your mind? How high is it? Because we are having the discussion, it is clearly a concern for

everybody in light of this swift nomination and approval of Amy Coney Barrett. How high is the probability?

KRUGMAN: I think in the order of 10 percent or 15 percent.

CHATTERLEY: Okay, so it is relatively low probability.

KRUGMAN: Yes, but the stakes are so high. It's one of those things. It is one of those things where it is probably not going to happen. It's

probably, if I believe the election modelers, 70 percent to 75 percent chance that Biden wins Florida, in which case it is over and there's some

chance that he will win Arizona, which will also be an early reporting state and in that case, it's over.

But if that doesn't happen, then it's going to be a very weird day. Actually, among other things, you guys in the broadcast media are going to

have an interesting problem because there is a lot of modelling going on. "The Washington Post," independent sites like Nate Silver's FiveThirtyEight

are going to be doing real-time -- you know, what are the probabilities given where we are right now and they will probably call the race on

Tuesday or early Wednesday.

But TV networks, which will be much more cautious, probably won't have called it. So what if everybody who has actually studied the numbers says,

Biden has won, but it hasn't been officially called and Donald Trump and his newly expanded Republican majority on the Supreme Court says, no, he

hasn't.

[09:25:30]

KRUGMAN: I mean, you know, it's crazy to be talking about this stuff.

CHATTERLEY: The risk of confusion is incredibly high. I know, I will say from CNN's perspective, we are going out of our way to impress upon people

that the votes have to be counted. We have to be patient. We have to make sure we get this right for so many reasons.

One of the reasons we have to get this right, Paul, and you mentioned it at the beginning of the interview is the fact that the COVID challenge is

increasing. We're all aware of the increasing challenges we go into the winter here and something that would have provided support would have been

if Congress could have agreed more financial aid and they didn't.

Paul, what are we looking at just from your perspective as a Nobel Prize winning economist? How high is the risk we fall into recession now simply

because we have the COVID challenge ongoing, we have the uncertainty over politics and the fright that that gives people and we don't have the

financial backing here of further financial aid?

KRUGMAN: I think there's very -- I'm not sure if it will officially be called a recession, but I think better than even odds that we will have at

least a couple of months of shrinking GDP. And the reason is, the extraordinary unemployment aid ran out at the end of July, but people had

some savings to draw on. There was a little bit of extra aid. That cushion has probably been depleted now.

The election uncertainty, you know, suppose you're a business thinking about investing. A Biden economy and a Trump economy are going to be very

different, the spending is going to be very different. Do you invest in renewable energy? Which is a good bet if Biden is going to be President,

but a terrible bet if Trump is going to remain in office.

Well, we probably -- we don't know. But do you invest in stuff that benefits from weakened environmental regulations? That's a good bet if it

is Trump. It is a bad bet if it is Biden. And given the uncertainty, what you probably do is invest in neither. So we have a situation where in there

is a huge option value up for businesses in just sitting on their hands and not spending and I think that holds true for consumers as well.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and I think that is exactly what we're see right now because the uncertainty of who leads this country going forward,

irrespective of what the polls are telling us or not telling us right now is deeply uncertain.

KRUGMAN: Yes, thanks for having me on.

CHATTERLEY: Paul Krugman, great to have you with us, sir. Nobel Laureate and columnist for "The New York Times." We shall see, sir.

All right, the market opens next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:31:05]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where U.S. stocks are up and running this Wednesday and we are seeing weakness across the board in early trade.

The Dow falling as you can see for the fourth straight session down more than two percent at this stage. Shares of economically sensitive firms like

airlines, cruise lines and energy companies getting hit particularly hard.

One stock though rallying in early trading today, General Electric, its shares up some four percent after reporting an unexpected quarterly profit

and a positive cash flow due to cost cutting.

Paul La Monica joins me now. The former GE, Paul, it is that it is so tiny now, it doesn't make a difference in what we are seeing really, I think is

a reaction not only to the broader uncertainty with regards to election fears, but when you look at economically sensitive, COVID-sensitive stocks,

these are the ones really being punished and that's the message.

PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: No, without question, Julia, and obviously, GE no longer even in the Dow, that's how it has lost a lot of

its market prominence and economic power, but you are right. The biggest issue right now, I think, facing the market isn't necessarily even the

election which is looming in less than week. It is the concern about the spike in COVID-19 cases, really leading to significant fear that a second

wave is real and it is happening and holding right now.

And what's happening with the Senate and all of those second round of stimulus talks? Oh, yes, the Senate has adjourned. So we aren't very likely

to get any stimulus any time soon, definitely not before the election. So maybe in the interim period, between the election and whether or not

President Trump gets a second term or the inauguration of Joe Biden, there could be some deal, but for many struggling Americans and businesses that

are out of work, finding it hard to pay their bills, they need that stimulus now and they're not going to get it.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, the fundamentals do matter ultimately, Paul, especially as we say, when we are in a pandemic. What did you make of -- very quickly --

of David Einhorn's comments? Greenlight Capital investor saying, look, tech stocks are in a bubble. I am adding to my shorts. This is a pillar of

strength of these markets and if you knock that out, we have a real problem.

LA MONICA: It would be a particularly big problem if the banks plus Microsoft all of a sudden plunged. Einhorn, obviously respectful of all he

has done in his career but I would argue, this is not 2000. Twenty years ago, you had the Big Techs leading the market. Many of them unprofitable.

The valuations were even more absurd than they are now.

Try and imagine life in this pandemic without Apple, Microsoft, Netflix, Google and Facebook. They have a lot of power, unfortunately, and we are

going to hear a lot about that during the Senate hearing today, but these are still companies with great revenue, earnings and cash flow. I don't

think they are going to suddenly plunge just because they might look a little frothy.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, one man's sell is another man or woman's admittedly buy on dip. Paul La Monica, thank you for that.

Footwear brand, Crocs has some experience turning a pretty ugly situation around. Its initially divisive colorful clogs are now streetwear icons,

thanks to high profile collaborations ranging from Justin Bieber to KFC. Yes, you heard me right.

Latest earnings suggest the brand is also a pandemic winner. Revenue surging some 16 percent as shoppers reached for comfort amid COVID-19

lockdowns.

Joining us now is Andrew Rees. He is Chief Executive Officer and Director of Crocs. Andrew, congratulations on some great earnings. I have to point

out, though, it is not just one quarter.

Last year was a great year overall for you amid this turnaround. You do, do more business outside of the United States, actually, than you do in the

United States, and before we talk about the numbers and what you're doing, I just want to get your sense as we watch COVID cases rising once again.

How concerned are you as you look around the world and in the U.S.?

ANDREW REES, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER AND DIRECTOR, CROCS: I think every business and every leader has to be concerned, right? So our duty is to

protect our employees, protect our customers and consumers, so we are watching very, very carefully in terms of the COVID cases and how different

countries are handling it. So it is a top priority.

[09:35:08]

CHATTERLEY: Are you seeing any softening in terms of demand, as we talk about the current quarter rather than the results you've just posted?

REES: No, we're not. So as we look at Q3, you know, we grew 16 percent, which was really a tremendous performance in the light of everything that

is going on. As we look at Q4 this year, we're projecting to grow between 20 percent and 30 percent and in those numbers, we've taken into

consideration some impacts that may take place from COVID.

You know, 38 percent of our business is digital, so that includes both our e-commerce sites and the digital sites that we trade on with our partners,

and that's a really important vehicle to be able to reach the consumer when they're at home.

CHATTERLEY: And it makes sense. We've all seen companies throughout the last nine months, if you have that digital offering and you can expand

quickly as well, it certainly helps. Talk to me about the Teenage Explorer and who is sort of classic buyer of Crocs at this moment, because I

mentioned the collaborations and some of them are quite frankly, eye opening and some of them sell out within hours.

REES: Right, so look, I think we've really targeted that younger consumer, and there's really a couple of vehicles to do that. Number one has been

collaborations, so we've collaborated with a very broad variety of entities, whether it be Post Malone, Justin Bieber, KFC; recently, Bad

Bunny and obviously, just kind of think about those names, we are reaching a very broad and diverse group of people which we are incredibly proud of.

The other thing that is important to that younger consumer is personalization. So, little Jibbitz charms that you put in the shoes, we've

moved that from being a child-oriented vehicle to being focused on social media and all of the social things that are going on in the world and

allowing the consumers to tell stories on their shoes and they've really embraced that.

So, the collaboration is critically important to engage our consumer. I would say personalization is as important.

CHATTERLEY: We just showed the picture of the Kentucky Fried Chicken. Andrew, I have no words for that. Like the personalization, the Jibbitz, I

can cope with. The Kentucky Fried Chicken, I am quite frankly mesmerized.

Talk to me about the future here. Because when I look at the numbers in particular, I see Asia and I think you have this sort of icon in terms of

individuals in the people that you're collaborating with, and that normally will be something that really excels and clicks in Asian nations and there

was weakness there. What's going on?

REES: Yes, so I think you said it in the introduction. Look, we've done really well during the pandemic. We are doing well now. But we had a great

year last year. This has been building for some time and as we look forward, we have tremendous confidence that we can continue to grow the

popularity of this brand and ignite the enthusiasm and passion of consumers.

And you are absolutely right. I think everything we are doing is absolutely right for Asia. Personalization is right. Collaborations are right. The

Justin Bieber collaboration that we just did excelled in Asia, especially as he and his brands are pushing harder in some of the markets to grow that

popularity.

And I think, you know, we had some weakness in Asia that had been very hard hit by COVID. A big part of the Asian business is tourist travel, so

Chinese tourist traveling to Thailand, to Indonesia, Philippines and all of these other markets. We are not seeing that right now, and frankly, I think

it will be some time before that comes back.

But also, internally, we are in the process of really -- we have been in the process of turning this whole company around, and I think that has

lagged a little bit in Asia, but we are very confident we have got kind of all the right steppingstones in place that we will see future growth in

Asia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating. I call them marmite shoes or vegemite. You either love them or you hate them and certainly turned this business

around, so congratulations on another great quarter, Andrew and stay in touch.

REES: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Andrew Rees, the Executive Director and Director of Crocs there. Thank you.

All right, coming up on FIRST MOVE: is freedom of speech a license to say absolutely anything? One couple fighting conspiracy theorist, George Webb.

Just watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW BENASSI, HUSBAND OF MAATJE BENASSI: A couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a rare cancer. Dealing with that situation is way easier

than trying to deal with this George Webb situation.

MAATJE BENASSI, US ARMY RESERVIST, TARGET OF CONSPIRACY THEORIST: It is getting out of hand and it needs to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: How baseless accusations concocted on the web and spread worldwide can turn lives upside down. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:48]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. As the Senate debates the future of free speech on the internet, one family is suffering death threats because

of a baseless conspiracy theory that went viral.

An American mother of two, Maatje Benassi was falsely accused of bringing coronavirus to China after visiting Wuhan last October. She and her husband

who we will hear from in a moment deny ever testing positive or even suffering symptoms.

That's disputed though by George Webb, a serial conspiracy theorist who styles himself as an investigative journalist, I quote: "When pressed by

CNN, Webb was unable to produce any hard evidence. He said his information came from a source that he declined to name."

Mr. Benassi who works as a civilian employee at The Pentagon joins us now. Matthew, fantastic to have you with us. I think we can only imagine what

you and your family have been through, but just describe it for us.

MATTHEW BENASSI: Well, Julia, hey, thanks for having me on. I appreciate that a lot. You know, it's surreal, to be honest.

Back in March and April and May of last year, it was -- it is just hard to explain, I'll be honest with you. When you're actually getting multiple

death threats that are attached to all of these videos that are being done about you. I think we had 70 some odd videos that talked about us, you

know, in some way along, from our harasser.

And, you know, you've got to take that stuff seriously, and I haven't said this to anyone else, but I'll tell you today. A couple of days after the

initial video that was released, I had the Department of State show up at our house and they explained to us that the videos had gone viral in China.

And that state-run media was blaming you know, my wife for bringing the virus to China.

And so when you have the State Department show up at your house, you have to take these things seriously, and then the threats, you know, came later.

And so yes, it's been a nightmare.

[09:45:10]

CHATTERLEY: I mean, Chinese state media, as you just mentioned, picked up on these rumors. They, I believe, demanded your wife's medical information.

At one point, you also had your own home address posted online.

Just describe what that's like. I mean, this to me, this sounds terrifying.

MATTHEW BENASSI: Yes, absolutely. So, "The Global Times" which is arguably nothing but a state-run outlet, and they did demand for my wife to release

her medical information to prove that, at the time, she didn't have coronavirus, right.

Now, obviously, at the time, we didn't have coronavirus, and yes, it was a difficult time and it was a difficult time for my wife. She is still

affected by this and, you know, and then the death threats, right.

And so, as I said, you know, our harasser did like 70 videos and in many of the videos, there are death threats and, you know, we improved our security

at our house. We became very cautious about what we did, because you don't know if those things are serious, now, we not take them serious and who

knows when someone is just going to show up at your house and try to harm you and your family. You just don't know.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's horrifying, and the worst part is, I know you went to the police. You went to the authorities and said, look, we're getting death

threats. We're being accused of these things. What did the authorities say to you, Matthew?

MATTHEW BENASSI: Yes, so we went to our local police first and you know, they are saying, hey, there is not a lot we can do. They are not direct

threats. They don't say that they are coming to kill us this evening or tomorrow, so then we went to the F.B.I. as well and they basically said the

same thing.

And so, it was even hard to get the F.B.I. to open a case about us. Eventually, we were able to get the F.B.I. to have an open case against

these folks that have threatened us, but you know, that case is just sitting there. It is not going to go anywhere.

And so, they basically say there's not a lot they can do, you know.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, which is, I think, the point, and the point, obviously, of why some of these CEOs are in front of Congress and the Senate today to be

asked questions about the role they play in tackling misinformation on their platforms.

I do have a statement I want to read very quickly from YouTube regarding this. They said, "We have clear policies against COVID misinformation and

we quickly remove videos violating these policies when flagged to us." Matthew, what do you want to see change? How should these tech companies be

forced to act when there is misinformation spread to the detriment of people's lives as you found?

MATTHEW BENASSI: Yes, absolutely right. You know, these social media companies, they need to be good stewards of the internet. I mean, they need

to remove harassing, defaming, and cyber blame content immediately and they certainly don't do that effectively today. They just don't.

And then two, when victims do report harassment, like we did, defamation and cyber blame, companies need to take action immediately. They need to

restrict or remove that content and that needs to be measured in hours, not days and weeks. Because in our case, we reported that video, the first

video, the night it was released. It took six or seven days for them to remove it finally, and by that time, it had 680,000 views around the world.

YouTube could have ended this whole situation if they just removed the content immediately like we asked.

And then finally, if social media companies can't be good stewards and they refuse to take action when victims let them know about it, then we as

victims should be able to hold these companies liable for the content that's on their platforms.

[09:50:08]

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and we as users should be better at defending what we see as baseless spreading of misinformation, too.

Matthew, our hearts go out to you. I think you said that the response needs to be within minutes and hours, not days. We're thinking of you and your

wife. And I'm sorry you've been through this.

Thank you for joining us, and come back to speak to us soon, please, and let us know how you're doing. Matthew Benassi. Thank you once again.

MATTHEW BENASSI: Thank you very much.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. And if you want to read more about this, Donie O'Sullivan's exclusive report is on CNN Business and we'll tweet out the

link.

You're watching FIRST MOVE. More to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. A final look at what we are seeing for stock markets. We have a selloff underway for the major averages amid a

broader risk off tone across financial markets.

Energy and tech stocks seeing the biggest declines. Every stock in fact in the Dow except one at this moment trading lower. All of this as COVID-19

cases hit record highs in the United States and of course, just six days to go before a pivotal U.S. presidential election.

John Defterios joins me now. John, I don't have to say anything else, I think that spells it out, doesn't it? There is just uncertainty at this

moment. Take some chips off the table, yes.

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Yes, I can't believe you used the analogy in your lead in about risk off going to risk on,

because I was going to say, the switch has been thrown very quickly, Julia.

And this is not a global phenomenon, by the way. I think this is really centered around the Atlantic. Spiking cases in the United States for COVID,

but particularly, at the core of Europe: Germany, France, Italy stretching to the south of the Mediterranean and the north to Belgium. That's why we

see European markets down 3.5 percent or more, particularly at the core.

I thought it was interesting what Microsoft had to say, a good quarter, but softening demand going forward and we also have to think about the harder

line by the Trump administration against Silicon Valley. There is a hearing on Capitol Hill in the Senate Commerce Committee over content management

and bias towards the Democrats. That's the charge right now, so that doesn't bode well for tech stocks.

But the number one thing, I think, is the drop in global demand. That's reflected in oil prices that you were talking about. We're down better than

five percent on WTI; 4.5 percent on Brent and below $40.00 a barrel. Where is the growth going to come from?

We had a spike up in the third quarter, dropping in the fourth. It does not bode well for the first quarter of 2021 at the same time. And Julia, every

conversation I have here in the Middle East or anybody I'm on the phone with in Europe, they are worried about the shenanigans around the votes and

the 68 million ballots already in through the mail. How long will they get a chance to count them?

What happens in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin? Big question marks. Usually they don't factor in political risk ahead of an election.

That has changed now because of COVID-19, clearly, and we still, Julia, don't have a stimulus plan from the United States and no clear indication

what Europe will do on spending due to this second spike up.

[09:55:12]

CHATTERLEY: Yes, short-term uncertainty with the election, medium to longer term uncertainty with COVID and no cushion here from U.S. Congress to try

and support the fundamentals in the real economy here in the interim.

John, terrifying. Thank you for that, I think.

John Defterios, thank you so much.

DEFTERIOS: A little bit -- you bet.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we are seeing it spelled out in the markets, too.

That's it for the show. You're watching FIRST MOVE. I'm Julia Chatterley.

Stay safe, and we'll see you tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

END