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First Move with Julia Chatterley

President-Elect Biden Formally Getting To Work; Janet Yellen Could Be Among Biden's Cabinet Picks; Qantas Might Require COVID-19 Vaccine For International Flights. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired November 24, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:41]

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNTIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.

Transition time. President-elect Biden formally getting to work.

Heavyweight hopes from a Fed boss. Janet Yellen could be among Biden's Cabinet picks.

And vaccinate to voyage. Qantas might require it for international flights.

It's Tuesday. Let's make a move.

A warm welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Today, we are focused on both U.S. transitions and global economic transformations. Let me explain.

A full three weeks after Election Day, the presidential transition now begins and of course, there is not a moment to lose. Firstly, we're headed

for transformation at the Treasury. Former Fed Chair Janet Yellen set to become America's first female Treasury Secretary, but we'll walk you

through a full of who's who of Biden's potential picks very shortly.

All this, of course, comes as vaccine breakthroughs propel hopes of a post- pandemic world and the economic transformation that will then ensue. That's going to take work, though.

Russia today adding to the vaccine vroom, saying their Sputnik vaccine is more than 90 percent effective in interim results. Details on all that

coming up, too. For now, though, global investors continue to focus, I think, more on the future rather than on what we're dealing with in the

present.

We add and look to add to Monday's gains after AstraZeneca's late-stage vaccine data showed a 90 percent efficacy rate in certain cases, beaten

down value stocks, the pandemic losers that will do well when economies improve do continue to outperform here.

Investors also reacting, I think, with pre-Thanksgiving thanks for that Janet Yellen pick. She is crisis ready. That's how I'd phrase it. She's a

known quantity, and is seen certainly by investors as a safe pair of hands.

She is also a consensus builder and, oh boy, does Congress need that right now more than ever. She also understands the need for more spending and

actually said as much in September. I quote, "There is a huge amount of suffering out there. The economy needs the help."

All right, let's talk transition. John Harwood joins us now. John, great to have you with us as always. There are plenty of what you could call safe

pair of hands when you look across these picks. In many cases, they were the deputies to those that were running the certain branches of governments

in the past, and whether you believe in their policies or not, they have experience, and the last few months in particular has shown that matters.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. You know, the Trump administration, whatever its ideological orientation, and it's not really

been consistent, has not shown a high level of competence. The latest example, obviously, is the pandemic.

What you have from these Biden officials is knowledge, experience, temperament, competence, all things that can be brought to bear against the

pandemic and against the economic struggles that we face, and as you mentioned, Janet Yellen, as somebody who has been the top White House

economic adviser under Bill Clinton, who has chaired the Federal Reserve, who now will become the Treasury Secretary, has a very intimate knowledge

of the relationship between monetary policy and fiscal policy, what the economy is going to need.

It doesn't mean she's going to be able to get everything she wants, but she certainly can work very closely with her old colleague, Jerome Powell, to

try to figure out what they can do, even without the Congress to get the economy up and running again.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating when you see someone who is considered on the left of the Democratic Party like Elizabeth Warren, who also allegedly

had eyes on this seat as well, saying this is an outstanding pick and you see Wall Street and investors celebrating, too. You know you've made a

pretty strategic choice here.

And John, I think something that you and I understand very well, she is a labor economist. She understands and at times was criticized for talking

about things like inequality, pay disparity in the marketplace as well.

She can look at this economy and say, look, the unemployment rate says one thing. I know there's bigger challenges beneath the surface.

[09:05:05]

HARWOOD: Exactly, Julia. And you know, the Democratic economic debate was centered around the issue of income inequality before COVID hit, long-run

trend of hollowing out the middle segment of the American economy, middle skill jobs, middle class incomes, all shrinking.

COVID has made all of those problems worse. It has shoved down or pushed down people at the bottom of the spectrum, and it has created enormous

amount of suffering, as you quoted Janet Yellen as having said, and that suffering is going to intensify as we get to the end of the year if we

don't get additional COVID relief, because eviction protections are going away, expanded unemployment is going away.

And you're going to have, as these pandemic crests, a tremendous amount of pain that threatens to put the economy into reverse, to actually shrink the

size of the economy, to raise unemployment again, all of those things are what's on the plate of Joe Biden, Janet Yellen, and Jay Powell as well.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and they've worked together in the past, to your point as well, so in many of these cases, they're known quantities, and the

relationship there is also established, which is critical when you're facing numerous crises, as the country is.

I'm jumping ahead, John, because we've not even formally seen any of these announced, but do you think there's any challenges in the confirmation

process if we see, of course, a Republican Senate and we see a Democratic House and looking across some of these picks for Joe Biden.

What we've seen is there's been challenges in the past and certainly President Trump faced his own challenges in getting some of his initial

picks through, too.

HARWOOD: Yes, there will be challenges, of course, and Republicans have made it abundantly clear that they are going to challenge what Joe Biden

wants to do.

However, I do think it will be difficult for them to stop people at the highest level positions that the President-elect has identified, people who

have strong relationships and history on both sides of the aisle. That includes Janet Yellen, even though she is somebody who is seen as more

liberal, she does have those relationships with Wall Street.

Republicans understand that she is competent for the job. She has gotten Republican votes in the past. Tony Blinken was the Staff Director of the

Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which is traditionally operated in a bipartisan way. I think both of those picks are going to be extremely

difficult for Republicans to stop.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And I think the economy perhaps will be stronger at the very least as a result of that. John Harwood, thank you so much.

All right, coronavirus cases are sky rocketing across the United States with hospitalizations hitting record highs for two straight weeks. Yet

despite that, millions of Americans are ignoring public health warnings to stay home for the Thanksgiving Holiday.

CNN's Ryan Young joining us live now from Atlanta's Hartsfield Jackson International Airport. Ryan, great to have you with us. So, despite the

warnings from some of the highest health authorities in the country, people are saying, hey, I want to be with my family and I'll take the risk, and

that's what you're seeing today.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I really call it the COVID fatigue. I think people are sort of tired of being trapped inside for the

most part and you're seeing sort of that expanding base of people who want to go somewhere for the holidays, especially to see their family. We know

2020 has been very difficult for all of us, quite honestly, throughout the world.

If you look behind us here at Hartsfield Jackson International, this has been a very busy day. I mean, we've seen hundreds of people since this

morning. Now, look at that woman right there. She actually has masks in her hand, she can hand those out because there are people who are still

arriving to this airport, believe it or not, without a mask.

And on top of that, they are also doing hand sanitization stations throughout this airport. There's more than 500 of those stations throughout

here, so you can get your hands wiped down as you go through.

But you're talking about right now the rates are exploding throughout this country where you have 14 states at record highs and hospitalization rates

are very high, and what people are concerned about, especially who work in the healthcare space, is what happens after this Holiday weekend. Where do

all the people end up if they do get sick?

Now, we've seen COVID testing centers throughout the country are packed with people who are trying to get a COVID test before going home, but as

you know, that doesn't really help you because you can come in contact with COVID here at the airport or in the taxi or somewhere else before getting

to your destination, so that is a big concern in terms of healthcare providers, because we know when people cluster together, that's when we see

these rates sort of get higher and higher.

They are expecting more than a million people to pass through this airport just this Holiday weekend, so it's something that's obviously going to test

and push the boundaries of what we've been expecting so far. Healthcare officials are definitely worried about it.'

In fact, listen to Dr. Fauci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: When you leave a location and have to go to an airport or

wherever it is, a train station, et cetera, a possibility of exposing yourself and then going home to your home community for, you know, a

wonderful traditional Thanksgiving Holiday might actually, unfortunately, be a source of an even amplification of the surge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:10:22]

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that's exactly what we're going to watch for, despite the authorities' best efforts to say, please stay-at-home. As you quite

rightly said, Ryan, people are fatigued and they want to see their families. It's tough.

Ryan Young at Atlanta's Hartsfield Jackson International Airport. Great to have you with us, Ryan. Thank you.

To Europe now where some nations are beginning to relax restrictions. French President Emmanuel Macron expected to ease the national lockdown

just a day after British Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced a similar move in England. Germany also set to outline plans for Christmas and New

Year's celebrations.

Melissa Bell is in Paris. Can't help but compare and contrast here, Melissa. What are we expecting from France, specifically? My understanding

is the lockdown still holds, but it will be a gradual relaxing of some of these measures.

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Julia. What they want to avoid are really the mistakes that were made at the end of the last

partial lockdown when the measures were lifted fairly quickly and everyone went back to life as usual and the second wave hit France even harder and

faster than had the first.

So this time, with those lessons in mind, we expect that the government is going to announce a gradual lifting, so in three parts. So those pretty

strict restrictions that are in place right now, some of them will be lifted, Julia, by December 1st. The others will be lifted closer to just

before the end of your Holidays with some remaining in place until January of 2021.

And that's because they say this partial lockdown has been pretty effective. You need only look at those figures. Positivity rate here in

France right now, Julia, 13.3 percent from a high just a couple of weeks ago of more than 20 percent and also in terms of the number of new cases

were down on Monday to fewer than 5,000 new cases.

Now, remember, that was the aim of Emmanuel Macron when he announced this second partial lockdown at a time when we were seeing rises every day of

more like 30,000 or 40,000 new cases.

So this partial lockdown has been effective and they want to ensure that they prevent those figures from rising again. But clearly, a great deal of

impatience as you would imagine from all of those businesses, and I'm thinking here particularly of restaurants that are unlikely to be allowed

to open this side of the New Year -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, but it proves, doesn't it, those stringent lockdown measures work but they come at great cost. Melissa, very quickly, Germany,

lockdown light, they went into, I remember on November 2nd. What are we expecting from the Germans now?

BELL: That's right. They had much more slowly than France seen an improvement in their figures, but had been looking at the fact that they

had not got them down as far as they would have liked to have them down. So thereto, a question of whether and how long these lockdown measures need to

stay in place because this is something we're going to have to be dealing with, Julia, until these vaccines become available.

Clearly, they've given everyone a lot of hope, but what all governments and the World Health Organization have said is that, look, even when those

vaccines come in and alongside those vaccines and until we can get our populations vaccinated, you're going to be needing some kind of

restrictions on people's movements for many months to come.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, for many months to come. Melissa Bell in Paris there for us. Thank you so much, as always.

To vaccines now, and new details from Russia on its Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine. Moscow says their vaccine will be cheaper than some of the others

and the first international deliveries will take place in January. Matthew Chance joins us now.

Matthew, we're looking at interim data here, but in terms of efficacy rates, it's pretty similar to the likes of Pfizer, BioNTech and what we

have heard from some of the cases in the AstraZeneca vaccine as well, however, this one, like AstraZeneca, far cheaper than some of the U.S.-

based vaccines.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Cheaper, easier to -- or as easy to carry, if not easier to transport around the

world, and the Russians would argue better as well because, you know, what the latest interim data indicates is that you've got efficacy of upwards of

95 percent. They made it clear in that data.

This is the Kremlin-backed developers of Sputnik V, the Russian vaccine. They've made it clear they've recorded or observed that sort of efficacy,

42 days after they administered the first dose of the vaccine. Of course, it's a two-dose vaccine as well. And so that's right up there with the

other big vaccine candidates that have been, you know, disclosing their results over the past couple of weeks as well.

All of them, by the way, have to be published and peer reviewed to get some confirmation from sort of independent sources about that extremely high

rate of efficacy.

In terms of the cost, yes, the Russians are obviously pitching this at the cheaper end of the spectrum of vaccines that are going to be made available

to the world.

[09:10:10]

CHANCE: They are saying it's going to be less than $10.00 per dose, which isn't quite as cheap as I understand it as the Oxford University-

AstraZeneca vaccine. But it is going to be very appealing to large swathes of the world, and they've already done deals, remember, Julia, with

countries in the Middle East, in South America, in Africa and Asia, and as well as, of course, many countries in the former Soviet Union who will be

depending on this Sputnik V, this Russian developed vaccine, as their main defense against coronavirus and against COVID-19.

In terms of the issue of, you know, transportation, that's been a big issue, I know, because some of those vaccines out there, they require some

ultra-low temperatures to get around. I mean, I think one of the interesting things about the Russian vaccine is it can be transported and

developed in powder form, and then diluted, you know, just before it is administered.

And that powder can be transported in temperatures up to plus four degrees centigrade and so, you know, it does have, you know, if it's found to be as

safe and effective as its developers say it is, it's going to have certain advantages over some of its competitors as well -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's going to be fascinating to see how this all plays out. Matthew Chance, thank you so much for that update there.

All right, still to come on FIRST MOVE. Get in line. COVID vaccines are coming, but who gets one first? The C.D.C. has a list. We speak to the man

who helped write it.

And no vaccine, no travel. Qantas's CEO on the future of international travel, perhaps.

Stay with us. There's more to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE, live from New York, where U.S. stocks are inching once again towards record territory. Stock markets also

got a late session boost on Monday on news that President-elect Joe Biden may nominate former Fed Chair and market friend -- market friendly, let's

call her that, Janet Yellen for Treasury Secretary.

You could say investors were yelling for Yellen. She is certainly respected, I think, by investors and seen as a safe pair of hands. Airlines

are among the best gainers pre-market on hopes that vaccines will boost economic reopenings, but of course the near term reality remains far more

challenged.

[09:20:19]

CHATTERLEY: The airline trade group, IATA sees global carriers losing more than $38 billion next year and that's $23 billion more than they'd

previously forecast.

Now, as we edge closer to a COVID-19 vaccine, the question now is who should get it and how should people be prioritized in terms of order?

Healthcare workers should be top of the list, says the C.D.C.'s vaccine panel, followed by other essential workers. Those with high-risk medical

conditions and the over 65s.

The panel also drew up a list of ethical issues to consider and clearly there's plenty of them. Joining us now is Dr. William Schaffner, a member

of the C.D.C.'s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices and Professor of Medicine at the Vanderbilt Medical Center.

Dr. Schaffner, great to have you on the show with us. Great to get your insights on this.

Healthcare workers, clearly the priority. They are on the frontlines. It's just prioritizing everybody else that gets more challenging. Just talk us

through the thinking on this.

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, MEMBER, C.D.C.'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES: Well, Julia, the C.D.C.'s Advisory Committee on Immunization

Practices, the ACIP has been discussing this now for several months, and the issues of equity, fairness, have been very, very important, as well as

trying to determine where the impact of the vaccine could be greatest. How many hospitalizations and deaths can be prevented.

And just as you said, what the committee settled on was first tier healthcare workers, including those who work in nursing homes and then

yesterday, they added the nursing home residents themselves, because if you were going to be in a nursing home vaccinating the healthcare workers, you

might as well vaccinate the residents also, and they are the source of many outbreaks and hospitalizations.

Then, after that, essential workers. The people who keep our society working, many of them people of color, somewhat lower socioeconomic status,

these are populations particularly affected by COVID, and so we wanted, for reasons of equity, to make sure that the vaccine reached those people.

And then, third in line, people aged 65 and older and others, younger, who have chronic underlying illnesses. Those people, more subject to severe

disease. So, that was the sequence.

It won't go exactly like that in real life. There will be overlap, of course, and I hope that many of those people will indeed come forward to be

vaccinated. We really have to reach out to them, establish trust with everybody, particularly those communities of color, to make sure that they

take advantage of this new vaccine.

CHATTERLEY: You know, it is interesting what you said about the long-term care facilities. I was just looking at some of the data on this. Those

people, the residents in the long-term care facilities account for less than one percent of the U.S. population.

Staff accounted for six percent of cases; and residents, 39 percent of deaths in the United States, so, the vulnerability here is clear. But you

made a very interesting point about getting people's confidence up to simply come forward and say, look, I'm willing to get a vaccine. And some

of the debate on social media last night was quite interesting to me.

It was saying, you have to give this vaccine to people that will benefit and say, yes, you know, some of the side effects were uncomfortable, but

here I am, I can go back out into life versus perhaps giving it to people that may have died of alternative complications or other illnesses anyway

and perhaps incite some fear about the vaccine.

How do those kind of calculations and considerations figure? Because it's a difficult conversation, but building confidence in this vaccine is clearly

important, too.

SCHAFFNER: So, Julia, all of those issues came up in the discussions, very, very extensively. It's being transparent, letting people know what's going

to happen in advance. Clearly, when you vaccinate people in nursing homes, some of them, even without vaccine, would have passed away, for example, in

the couple of weeks or months subsequent to receiving the vaccine.

We can't assume a causal relationship. We'll have to talk to not only the people -- the residents in the nursing homes, but all of their families so

that they understand what the circumstances are.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. It makes sense. Do we have enough supplies? Will we have enough supplies to give the vaccine to all of the people that you

mentioned, the most vulnerable? The over 65s altogether? Or will you even find yourselves having to choose, perhaps, between certain subsets of those

people because even that's a difficult choice.

[09:25:10]

SCHAFFNER: Oh, it is. It's clear we won't have enough vaccine on the front end. My own institution, my own medical center, is talking already about

sub-prioritization. Suppose we only get X number of doses. Who among the healthcare workers should go first? So those discussions will be ongoing,

and our State Health Departments will be providing some guidance, but many institutions will have to address those issues on their own.

CHATTERLEY: You know, it's fascinating, Dr. Schaffner, last week, we spoke to a member of ECRI, the nonprofit. He was saying to us -- and he was a

doctor who said he won't give it to his family or take it himself for six months because he wants to wait to get the Emergency Use Authorization.

Just get six months of safety data rather than relying on two months, work out their distribution, the logistics in the interim, and just build

confidence and it goes back to sort of where we started the discussion.

Was there any debate about that in this panel? Perhaps we need a bit longer to collect more safety data and understand the side effects of these new

platform technologies with these vaccines, or is it just, get the vaccines out there and get us back to life?

SCHAFFNER: It's not exactly like the latter, Julia, but you do pose the issue that has been widely discussed. In the context of a pandemic, where

in the United States, a thousand or more people are dying every day, how much safety data do you need before you're ready to go ahead with the

vaccine?

There's a tension there, and we've come to a middle ground, right? We're going to continue to assess the safety data as we go along and vaccinate

hundreds of thousands, indeed millions of people.

If any signal comes up, we'll pause our vaccination program. I hope that doesn't happen. And of course, the skepticism and the concern is

understandable. Some people will be early accepters. Others will stand back a little bit and wait to see how things go.

It's all about trust and good information and reassurance.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And we need that clarity and that information now to convince people that this is the right thing to do, if indeed we believe it

is.

What do you think the biggest challenge will be? Will it be the lack of supplies in the interim, the challenges over distribution, or will it be

convincing enough people to take this vaccine to get us to a point where we have a degree of herd immunity?

SCHAFFNER: Well, all of those things are going to come into play. As I like to say, this is the third phase. The first phase was actually creating the

vaccine. The second phase was trialing it and seeing that the vaccines work. This third phase, delivering the vaccine to 330 million people just

in the United States, let alone around the world, that's the hardest phase, and we have a whole new set of problems that we will confront.

But we can do this if we work steadfastly, and one of the things I like is that the political veneer over this vaccine, at least in this country, has

abated now that the election is behind us and we can put public health and science to the forefront.

CHATTERLEY: That's interesting. Do you believe that the administration change will allow an end to some of the science skepticism that's perhaps

clouded -- in fact, it has clouded the execution, the focus, on this vaccine and the science behind tackling COVID? Do you think this will be a

clean break and actually we can lose some of that science skepticism from now on?

SCHAFFNER: It will take some work. I hope the new administration is wise and stands back and lets public health and the scientists and we,

physicians go up front and do all of the communicating and just let the politicians support what it is that we're trying to do.

If that happens, I think we have a greater chance of success.

CHATTERLEY: Fantastic, sir. Great to speak to you and no doubt, we'll speak to you soon. Dr. William Schaffner, a member of the C.D.C.'s Advisory

Committee on Immunization Practices. Great to have you with us, sir.

All right, the market opens next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:32:38]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. The opening bell for the second time this week and we've got a higher open across the board for the major

averages with the Dow and the S&P nearing records once again.

Investors have more certainty about the transition of presidential power in the United States. That's helping sentiment. Also, I think positive vaccine

news, more broadly, but also Russia today adding to the pile, not hurting sentiment either.

We called yesterday Medicinal Monday. Perhaps we can call today Trick or Tuesday. Russia says its Sputnik vaccine is some 95 percent effective in

interim data.

The dollar, flat in recent trading but still near three-month lows as we look across assets. Investors seeing opportunities perhaps in other

currencies on hopes that economic rebounds and economic recovery, too. A Bank of America survey says money managers are turning more bullish on

emerging market assets.

In the meantime, the Bitcoin bounce continues. The crypto currency trading above $19,000.00 for the first time in three years. Less than five percent

away from records. And as you can see, up a further 4.5 percent today.

All right, a global liquidity trap. That's what the I.M.F. Chief Economist says we are facing as Central Banks around the world run out of tools to

stimulate the global economy. In a recent op-ed for "The Financial Times," Gita Gopinath says fiscal policy must play a leading role and calls for

governments to spend more to aid a recovery and I'm excited to say that Gita joins us now.

Fantastic to have you with us on the show. You op-ed struck me about the need for more spending support for the global economy, but it was a message

that you echoed coming out of the G-20 as well and the fact that coordinated spending is better than the sum of the individual parts. Talk

us through your hopes.

GITA GOPINATH, CHIEF ECONOMIST, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: Hi, Julia. So, yes indeed, we think fiscal policy has to be on the forefront here. I mean,

the way we think about it is firstly, we're not out of the woods, which means that it is very important not to prematurely withdraw fiscal support,

otherwise, recoveries will get derailed.

Second is we entered this crisis already with insufficient demand in the sense of investment being relatively weak when you compare that to savings,

which is one of the reasons why interest rates have been so low for so long and are expected to continue, which is why I made that remark on being in a

global liquidity trap.

And the third is there is a big need for public investment spending to provide public goods when it comes to infrastructure, when it comes to

greening the economy and greening the recovery.

So, for all these three reasons, we think it's absolutely essential for fiscal policy to play an important role, and when this stimulus is provided

simultaneously across countries, we get a much bigger bang for the buck. We get a much stronger impact on the global economy when this is done together

across economies.

[09:35:45]

CHATTERLEY: The statistic that jumped out from your op-ed for me, and I just want to repeat it back for our audience, 97 percent of advanced

economies' Central Banks have pushed their interest rates below one percent and a fifth of the world now, they are negative. It's just tough, to your

point, to continue to cut rates and expect to see the same kind of lift to economies.

What you're saying is if you want to create that demand response, get people spending, create jobs. It has to come from governments here, and

they have to spend rather than just lend, as Central Banks do.

GOPINATH: So, central banks have been essential for preventing a catastrophic financial crisis and for helping with the recovery. But with

interest rates now at rock bottom, and like I said, in 97 percent of advanced economies, and greater reliance on other kinds of measures like

quantitative easing, which we know, while beneficial, is not as powerful in bringing about recoveries, and the third that we are dealing with solvency

issues, which again is mostly in the domain of fiscal policy.

For all these reasons, fiscal policy, really, has to be the main game in town.

CHATTERLEY: And that certainly makes sense for the United States. I mean, you are saying that at the I.M.F. that a $2 trillion stimulus package,

which of course Congress has been battling about now for many months, would add three percent to growth next year and it would allow jobs to be brought

back far quicker than, at least at this stage, we're looking at. It's vital that the United States and the U.S. Congress does something more here to

support demand.

GOPINATH: Absolutely. And I would add to that, it is also vital to do it soon because you know, unemployment insurance benefits should be extended,

supplemental benefits should also be renewed. It transfers to states and local governments.

I mean, all of these are essential parts of the package, and right now, there is a difficult time in terms of virus counts going up. We worry about

slowing momentum, and despite the fact the U.S. economy has done well in recovering, but still we don't want to lose that momentum, which is why

timing is also important, getting it done sooner than later is really essential.

CHATTERLEY: I just want to get your take if you're allowed or willing to say something about the prospect of Janet Yellen, former Fed Chief, former

head of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, potentially in the frame here to become Treasury Secretary of the United States.

Just in terms of her background as a labor economist, you look at her own paper and say, this is someone that understands the challenges of the U.S.

economy and also the limitations, as we've discussed of monetary policy. What do you make if you can weigh in here on this potential decision?

GOPINATH: I mean, she is an outstanding economist with exceptional experience. I mean, look at the -- I mean, having a Treasury Secretary who

has also been chair of the Federal Reserve is just phenomenal, and knowing the mix of monetary and fiscal policy interaction.

And like you said, she is a labor economist and I think one of the big challenges coming out of this crisis is the concern about employment, about

labor force practices issues, so she is exceptionally well prepared for the challenges, and if I may add, I would be thrilled to see a woman as

Treasury Secretary. Better late -- it's been a while. It should have happened earlier, but I'm glad it's finally happening if it does.

CHATTERLEY: I love that you add that. And I love that, too. So I should join you in that joy.

One of the other things that came out of your statement from the G-20, and I think this is vital to discuss, too, the impact of vaccines and not just

vaccines for the richest nations in the world, but the benefit of getting vaccines out to the entire world as soon as we can. Your predictions of

what this would mean for a raise in global income over the next five years is just astonishing. Trillions and trillions of dollars.

GOPINATH: Yes, so the number we have is $9 trillion between now and 2025, which is humongous compared to the cost of deploying those vaccines and

treatments and tests around the world. So that really has to be a number one priority for the international community to make sure that happens.

[09:40:10]

GOPINATH: So that we can bring back faster global recovery and it's not just concentrated in some parts of the world.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. I couldn't agree more. Gita, fantastic to have you on the show. Thank you so much for shining a light on some of these critical

issues and also for our audience as well, and you won't know this, but there was a light -- the sunlight shining across your face throughout that

interview, so shining a light for both reasons.

Gita Gopinath, Chief Economist at the I.M.F. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. Great to have you with us.

All right, after the break: tickets, money, passport, and a vaccination certificate. A major airline says, in the future, you can't fly without

one. A glimpse into what might be coming next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the show with a look into the future of air travel. The Australian carrier, Qantas, says passengers will have to prove

they have been vaccinated against COVID-19 before boarding international flights.

Qantas, the first airline to say this publicly, but others are expected to follow. The law change will be brought in when vaccines become widely

available. Just listen to what the CEO had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN JOYCE, CEO, QANTAS: We are looking at changing our terms and conditions to say, for international travelers, that we will ask people to

have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft. Whether you need that domestically, we'll have to see what happens with COVID-19 in the

market, but certainly for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country, we think that's a necessity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: Richard Quest joins us now. Wow, Richard. I could just imagine all sorts of problems with this, not only the timing of when you decide to

enact it. What do you make of this?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: It's the future. I mean, whatever problems there are going to be, that's the way it's going to be, Julia.

I.A.T.A, the aviation organization, is looking into something called travel pass, as a private consortium that's talking about common pass, and the

idea will be really simple. You have a vaccination, it is done from a reputable lab. It is stored securely in a digital vault somewhere, and the

airline and governments have access to it.

This is not new. You may not have ever had one of these, but for those of us of a certain age who have traveled to certain countries have a

vaccination booklet, which has lots of little stamps in it that says I've been vaccinated for typhoid, yellow fever and all sorts of things.

[09:45:35]

QUEST: Now, Julia, how do we get this into digital, secure form that can't be forged? And once you've done that, then really, you're off to the races.

Airlines just log on. They see your vaccination, and you're free to go.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, that was my first suggestion, when you held that up, I was about to say, hang on a second, I could just fill in a line on

that and say I've had the COVID vaccine.

To your point, this can't be faked and there's going to be, I think, people who try and do it, surely. They've got to find a way to do this securely.

It's going to take time, Richard, and that's one of the big challenges. In the meantime, for those that can't travel, it seems, until we get the

vaccine, B.A. is selling off its wares, clearly needs to raise money, but also for those that like to recreate the airline experience at home.

I did look at the website. Champagne flutes? I think that's a bit of vice. Teacups as well.

QUEST: No, they've all gone.

CHATTERLEY: Sold out, Richard. This is an outrage. However --

QUEST: They've all gone. Lots of airlines are doing this. The reason they're doing it -- I don't think it's money-raising as much as they've got

too many of them. They've lost the 747 fleet. They don't need as many of this, that, and the other and they've seen from other airlines, like

Qantas, which sold off first class bars and Singapore Airlines, they've seen how popular this is.

It is a good feel-good. But Julia, I couldn't get the flutes and I couldn't get the teapots, or how about this? Look at this. This is right up your

street for your entertaining. A nice first class meal trolley. I can just see you. And I'll join you at the other end and we can walk our way up and

down the lounge serving canapes and champagne to those who need it.

CHATTERLEY: Two hundred and fifty pounds, Richard. You're a big spender. I managed to find a four-shelf oven, portable, for 50 pounds. Now, that's a

bargain.

QUEST: I'm afraid to say I do actually here have loads of airline souvenirs, but I can't show you them because I'm not sure they were

legitimate.

CHATTERLEY: You're the only one.

QUEST: They were not legitimately removed from the aircraft.

CHATTERLEY: Richard. Like what? How big were these articles that you may have pilfered from an airline?

QUEST: I am not saying a word. I'm keeping shtum as they say. But I do have -- actually, I do have a very nice set of Singapore Airlines first class

coffee mugs and they were legitimately received.

CHATTERLEY: Okay, perfect. Any airline that's watching that wants to donate anything to Richard, legally, this time, as opposed to anything else.

QUEST: Yes. Yes. I was really disappointed. I was really disappointed. I went on that website and I thought, I'm going to buy half a dozen B.A.

first class cups and saucers and they were all gone. I'm not surprised. #AVGeeks the world across love this sort of stuff and I am absolutely up

there.

But by the way, your meal trolley gets delivered in time for you to serve Christmas dinner.

CHATTERLEY: I know. I'll consider it. Thank you, Richard. I'm better at ordering food as opposed to making it. Thank you.

Richard Quest, always a pleasure. And those things were on sale at whatabuy.co.uk if you'd like to see what we were talking about.

All right, still to come on FIRST MOVE, we have liftoff of a different kind. China successfully launching an ambitious mission to the moon. We'll

discuss what this means for the space race.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:04]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. I want to bring you a special report now from our new series, "Connecting Africa," where we profile the

people, projects, and companies revolutionizing African business.

Eleni Giokos met up with an award-winning logistics company that's helping cargo owners become more efficient, which in turn lowers the costs of the

goods.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEAN CLAUDE HOMAWOO, CO-FOUNDER AND CHIEF PRODUCT OFFICER, LORI: When you have inefficient logistics, that additional cost ends up in the cost of the

goods that you're purchasing. So, the reason for LORI is to bring more efficiency so that we can lower the cost of goods and make our countries

more competitive and goods more affordable.

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN BUSINESS AFRICA CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Jean-Claude Homawoo and his team raised more than $20 million in 2016 to launch LORI

Systems, described as the uber of trucks.

HOMAWOO: I would say what distinguishes LORI most is its technology, which is a modular Cloud-based platform of applications, multiple applications

that are interconnected.

So in the logistics process, you have cargo owners. You have transporters. But you also have clerks on the ground, and in order for logistics to be

efficient, all of those different parties have to be able to communicate in real-time, which allows the cargo to move quicker.

BHUPINDER DHILLON, DIRECTOR, DHILLON TRANSPORTERS: Before LORI Systems came into the market, everything was handwritten, whereas today, everything is

online. We've saved a lot of time and money.

HOMAWOO: We've taken a different approach in every region, taking the time to customize and custom design software for the continent. So, whereas in

East Africa, we were focused on bulk cargo, in West Africa, we focus much more on fast-moving consumer goods, so finished goods.

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN BUSINESS AFRICA CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Nile Agro Industries Limited is a typical cargo owner, using the platform in East

Africa.

BAGANZI FRANCIS, GROUP CORPORATE MANAGER, NILE AGRO INDUSTRIES LIMITED: When the truck leaves Mombasa, you are able to track your timings, so your

customers are aware of when you will be in the market, when the products will be in the market. That has really helped us a lot.

GIOKOS (voice over): The company has started using LORI Systems to export flour beyond the local market to South Sudan.

HOMAWOO: In order for two countries to both feel comfortable with the movement of goods, more information, more transparency, more visibility is

going to be needed, and that is precisely what our platform brings.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: All right, no mooning around here. China, the latest nation to join the space race, they've launched a probe to Mars.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CHATTERLEY: I didn't mean mars, I meant the moon. Kristie Lu Stout has the details.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: China has successfully launched its Chang'e-5 robotic spacecraft. The mission, to bring back rock

samples from the moon.

It has been more than 40 years since the Americans and the Soviets brought back samples for analysis, and China is hoping to be only the third country

to achieve this feat. The Chang'e-5 named after the ancient Chinese goddess of the moon has two main objectives: to gain scientific knowledge by

collecting samples to understand more about the origins of the moon and to gain engineering expertise.

Also, the task of sampling and returning, China can enhance its technical know-how for space exploration.

The entire mission is scheduled to take around 23 days and in December, the lunar samples are set to return to Earth in a capsule, landing in China's

Inner Mongolia region.

At the launch site, the Chang'e-5 mission spokesman spoke to the media about the challenges ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEI ZHAOYU, SPOKESMAN, CHANG'E-5 MISSION (through translator): Compared to the circumlunar and moon landing explorations that we managed to implement,

the biggest challenge of the sampling mission, I believe, is the work of moonscape sampling, moonscape takeoff, rendezvous and docking of the lunar

orbit, as well as the high-speed re-entrance to the Earth.

These parts are the biggest challenges we care about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:55:20]

STOUT: Asked when China was planning to put astronauts on the moon, the spokesman said future lunar exploration activities should be carried out in

the combination of man and machine.

Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.

CHATTERLEY: So that's the moon. I've already predicted they're going to try for Mars. My apologies for getting overexcited.

That's it for the show. You've been watching FIRST MOVE. I'm Julia Chatterley. Stay safe. We'll see you tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

END