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First Move with Julia Chatterley
The U.K. Becomes First Western Nation To Clear A COVID Vaccine; BioNTech's Breakthrough; An Exclusive Look At How China Intends To Ship their Vaccine Around The World. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired December 02, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:15]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley, this is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.
Application approved. The U.K. becomes the first Western nation to clear a COVID vaccine.
BioNTech's breakthrough. We speak exclusively to the CEO who developed it.
And going global. An exclusive look at how China intends to ship their vaccine around the world.
It's Wednesday, let's make a move.
A warm welcome once again to you FIRST MOVE. Fantastic to be back with you on what we're calling a V-Day in the U.K., the U.K. the first Western
nation, as I mentioned, to greenlight a COVID vaccine. The Pfizer-BioNTech version, specifically, Britain seemingly going from Brexit to the makings
of a pandemic Vexit, yes, that's what we'll call it. The U.S. also not far behind with vaccine shipments possible within weeks.
We'll also get an exclusive look inside China's operations, too, for global distribution of their vaccine. As I mentioned, that's coming up later in
the show.
Vaccine news, of course, has been our weekly catalyst for global stock market rallies, although, as you can see right now, it's a picture of
consolidation around the world, specifically, in the United States, the S&P and the NASDAQ set to fall from record highs.
A mixed day too for Europe and Asia. Bucking the trend though, bringing it back to some of those Big Pharma and vaccine developers and manufacturers,
Pfizer and BioNTech both rallying premarket as you can see on the U.K. news. Moderna pulling back. It filed for E.U. Emergency Use Authorization
and the United States, of course, for its vaccine earlier this week.
Merck also announcing today that it is selling its stake in the firm, too. A bit of profit taking going on there clearly. So that is the science and
how we see it today. Now, we need to talk about the stimulus.
A flurry of emergency aid measures are under discussion on Capitol Hill. And of course, the stakes couldn't be higher. An estimated 12 million
Americans will lose pandemic related assistance in just over three weeks if lawmakers don't do something to pass more relief soon.
President-elect Biden urging quick action from Congress, but says that's just the start. He'll push for massive new aid once in office. But as you
guys realize, and we talk often whether it's then or now, a deal requires compromise in Congress, more stimulus chat later on in the show. But for
now, we're going to bring it back to the science.
The U.K. medical regulator approving the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for use and the government will begin distribution next week. CNN just had an
exclusive interview with the CEO of BioNTech in Germany. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How big a step is this for you, in general, towards beating the pandemic?
UGUR SAHIN, CEO, BIONTECH: Yes, thank you very much. This is really, of course, a very important milestone. So it will be the first time that
people outside of clinical trials will get access to our vaccine and we believe that it is really the start of the end of the pandemic, if we can
ensure now about the roll out of our vaccine. Of course, it's the first country to enable an authorization and others will probably follow. Yes.
But it's a good start.
PLEITGEN: How fast are things going to go out now from this approval to people actually getting the vaccine first in the U.K., but then also in
other places as well?
SAHIN: Yes. So we are at the moment in the process of preparing additional documents and dealing with logistics. So if everything goes well, I expect
that the first people could get the first vaccinations beginning next week.
PLEITGEN: Beginning next week in the U.K. at the same time. You're also -- you believe in and almost everyone believes very close to getting approval
Emergency Use Authorization from the F.D.A. When do you think that's going to be the case? How soon do you think that is?
SAHIN: Yes, so we are in close interaction with the F.D.A. and addressing the questions providing additional data. The next important meeting will be
on December 10th, the VERPAC meeting, and after the VERPAC meeting, depending on the outcome of this meeting, it could be very fast, so it
could happen that the days after the VERPAC meeting, we might get the authorization and if we get the authorization, we would be able to start
delivery of the vaccine very fast.
PLEITGEN: How fast is very fast? Because a lot of people in America of course also are asking, how soon will they be able to get the vaccine? How
much have you already produced for instance?
SAHIN: So we have already produced a lot of doses in the last week. The vaccine doses are now going to be released with certificates, with quality
certificate. We already mentioned that we will deliver up to 50 million doses to the different regions in 2020.
So that means a significant proportion of those doses would also go to the United States. Of course, it depends on when we would be able to start the
roll out. So technically, we are prepared to start the roll out. It depends, of course, on the regulatory approval.
PLEITGEN: One of the things that we've been hearing over the past couple of weeks is the logistics, specifically of your vaccine having to be stored at
around minus 100 Fahrenheit. There's some who have called them a logistical nightmare. How do you plan to mitigate that in the future?
SAHIN: Yes, so this is the early phase of pandemic supply. And of course, the early phase of pandemic supply is a logistical challenge for all of us.
It's not only the storage of the transportation of the vaccine, but also really getting the people to the right place at the right time and ensuring
that they can come back for the second vaccination.
We are in the moment working in analyzing other transportation temperatures, including minus 20. We are evaluating whether the vaccine is
stable at two to eight degrees for a long time. And what we also do is we are working already in a second generation of formulation, which could --
which might allow us even transportation at room temperature. We will see that this will progress.
PLEITGEN: When will that second generation be available?
SAHIN: So first of all, what is important is that in the next few months, we will get additional data supporting the transportation of the vaccine
in, for example, at minus 20. So that's the first change. And the second generation will be available most likely in the second half of 2021.
PLEITGEN: When -- and this is the final question -- when do you think that this will all have such an effect that we will begin to see the end of the
pandemic and life we'll be going back to normal?
SAHIN: Yes, it is important. So every individual who receives the vaccine will most likely have a benefit. We have demonstrated for our vaccine 95
percent protection from disease and so it will be a benefit for everyone getting this vaccine including those who are at risk to have a severe
disease.
To ensure that we are able to stop this pandemic, we need to reach a high vaccination rate and an expert gives different numbers 60 to 70 percent is
a number, a proportion of people having an immune response, which could enable stopping with the vaccine and I believe -- I personally believe,
there's a number of companies now reaching the approval in the next few months.
We might be able to deliver a sufficient number of doses until end of summer 2021 to reach the 60 to 70 percent coverage, which could give us the
relief to have a normal winter in 2021.
PLEITGEN: Ugur Sahin, thank you very much for speaking with us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: So that was our Fred Pleitgen there and the CEO of BioNTech, an exclusive interview.
A couple of things I just want to pull out from that. The fact that they are not only having approval in the U.K. for use of this vaccine now and
it's going to come very quickly, obviously, the discussions with the U.S. regulators, too, but the fact that they are investigating transporting this
vaccine at higher temperatures, so not the minus 70 degrees C that we're dealing with at this moment, but potentially higher at minus 20 degrees
that would be more in line with the Moderna vaccine also that they are working on the second generation of formulations that could perhaps be
transported at room temperature and we could see them as early as the second half of next year. Fascinating interview there.
All right, let's talk about what's going on in the U.K. Salma Abdelaziz joins us now -- Salma, apologies for the name stumble there. Great to have
you with us. Just walk us through what the U.K. regulators said today and who gets what, when. What do we know?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, Julia, the first thing they wanted to do is to reassure the public because obviously this is a very big day,
super exciting news, an extraordinary moment, and you have to get everyone on board.
So they came out and said, please, be aware that this vaccine is efficient, it is safe and that no corners have been cut. That was the thing that we
heard from them today. The other thing that we're hearing is, of course, guidance from the -- to the government, rather, as to who should get it
first.
So here's the plan that we expect so far. We already know that that vaccine which is in Belgium is on the way here to the U.K., it should arrive early
next week. There will be 800,000 doses in that initial batch according to the Health Secretary. That's enough for half as many people because, of
course, you have to dose people twice in that course of 21 days, so half as many people.
The government guidance is that the first people who should get the vaccine should be those who are in care homes, the most vulnerable, the elderly,
and those who take care of them. And then after that; next, the guidance is, of course, healthcare workers and those over 80.
So, extremely exciting news. So much elation here on the streets of London. I can tell you, I've been speaking to people all day, and one woman just
broke down in tears when I asked her, her reaction, she said, "I've lost people close to me and finally I can see an end in sight." So, so much
preparation for these next steps in these next moments, but a lot of excitement as well -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. Such an important day. I was getting goosebumps as you were -- you were saying that, Salma. Thank you so much for that update
there. Exciting and momentous times. Thank you.
Now a short time ago in Parliament, the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson welcomed the vaccine roll out news. Listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Speaker, I know that the whole House will want to join me in welcoming the fantastic news that the MH RA
has formally authorized the Pfizer vaccine for COVID-19.
The vaccine will begin to be made available across the U.K. from next week. I would like to pay tribute to and to thank all those who have made this
possible. It is the protection of vaccines that will ultimately allow us to reclaim our lives and get our economy moving again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Max Foster joins us now from Downing Street. Max, a huge moment for the U.K., but personally, a huge moment for Boris Johnson who has come
under clearly fierce criticism over his handling of the COVID crisis itself -- a very important day.
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: A big day. He has also got so many challenges lining up. Of course, this vaccine needs to get here from
Belgium, it hasn't been done before. So will the logistics work? Has he set up the right systems in terms of transport? Has he set up the right systems
in the hospitals?
Initially, these vaccines will go to the hospitals, and then later on, they'll go to general practitioners, surgeries and presumably care homes
and places like that. But the system needs to work without major hiccups.
The other big issue is of course, we've just come out of a national lockdown into regional lockdowns, many of which are stricter than the
current one. So, he is encouraging people to remember the tiering system that we're now in, not to relax too much because if we relax too much,
we'll have this massive spike and we don't expect everyone to be fully vaccinated if all goes to plan until the spring. So there's a lot that
could go wrong before everyone is vaccinated -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, there are so many challenges ahead here. I just wonder, Max, to what extent is Brexit and the timing of Brexit actually helped
facilitate the timing of this decision, too, rather than having to wait for broader E.U. approval?
FOSTER: Well, I'm glad you asked about Brexit. This has not been a big topic today and it probably should be. I know that you on your show have
reported a lot about all of the logistical challenges which will follow, any trade deal or not, all the paperwork, the government seems very clear
that there will be no disruption to the supply system of this vaccine to the U.K. after December into January.
But how can they actually promise that when so many different forms of businesses are warning that they are going to have a big backlog and a
massive problem with paperwork. The other way this Brexit issue has played into the regulatory process is that normally, British regulation would have
to go to Europe to be approved.
But the language we've been hearing today, which has been confusing some people about this is emergency legislation was basically something that was
put into place by the British government to allow the British regulator to have final approval on this drug and not have to go to Europe.
So Brexit as ever playing into everything that we do in this country, but there's some hope out there, at least this time, Julia, with the vaccine.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's nice to have some good news, quite frankly, where this pandemic is concerned and notwithstanding all the challenges ahead.
We're focused on the positives today and this is great news for the Brits.
Max Foster, great to have you with us.
All right. Here are some other stories making headlines around the world. The U.S. has set another bleak record in the coronavirus pandemic. Nearly
99,000 people now hospitalized with the virus according to the COVID Tracking Project.
The U.S. also reported nearly 2,600 deaths on Tuesday alone, that's the second deadliest day since the pandemic began.
Sources telling CNN, President Trump has been privately discussing preemptive pardons for those who are close to him before he leaves office.
The list includes his adult children, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. So far, no comment from the White
House.
Hong Kong pro-democracy activist, Joshua Wong is vowing to continue the fight for democracy after he and two other prominent activists were
sentenced to prison on Wednesday. CNN's Kristie Lu Stout has all the details.
[15:15:06]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Twenty-four-year-old pro-democracy activist, Joshua Wong has been sentenced to 13 and a half months in prison
a week after he pleaded guilty to organizing and inciting an unauthorized assembly outside Hong Kong Police Headquarters in June of last year.
His fellow activist, Ivan Lam and Agnes Chow pleaded guilty to similar charges, 23-year-old Chow has been sentenced to 10 months in prison, 26-
year-old Lam has been sentenced to seven months.
During the court hearing, the Magistrate said that Joshua Wong challenged the authority of the Hong Kong Police by staging an unauthorized assembly
outside police headquarters. She also criticized Wong for being quote, "very selfish" because police had to waste resources to respond to the
gathering.
As she read up the sentencing, Wong and Lam, they looked out at their supporters inside the courtroom while Chow kept her head down. After the
sentencing, Joshua Wong delivered a message via his lawyers on Twitter. He said that, "It is not the end of the fight," and added that he will serve
his prison sentence along other brave protesters.
He also asked Hong Kongers to continue to support each other. This case is not related to the national security law, but it is another critical moment
for Hong Kong in this era of increasing Chinese control. Last month, all the remaining opposition lawmakers resigned en masse to protest the
disqualification of four fellow lawmakers after a resolution was passed by Beijing.
Opposition voices are being challenged in an unprecedented way, including these three young activists.
Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: All right, still to come on FIRST MOVE, as the U.K. clears a COVID-19 vaccine for use, a former F.D.A. Commissioner says we need to keep
monitoring even after authorization of these vaccines. He gives his take after the break.
And cryptocurrency regulation, the U.S. needs to get it right or risk losing out to China. So says the CEO of payment giant, Ripple. He joins us
later this hour. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE on another red letter day for global science. The U.K. greenlighting the COVID vaccine from Pfizer and BioNTech.
BioNTech says shipments will begin within days.
Wall Street clearly watching now, I have to say we're a little softer premarket, lots of good vaccine news has already been priced into the stock
markets and the shares already.
Barclays though remains a believer in U.S. stocks, seeing an S&P hitting 4,000 next year. That's a rise of some nine percent from recent levels.
It's counting on a strong economic rebound and easing trade tensions. That said, there's always a caveat. America could still play trade hardball with
China for some time to come.
President-elect Biden telling "The New York Times" he won't remove President Trump's tariffs on Beijing right away as he crafts a quote,
"coherent China's strategy with allies."
All right, to return to today's top story once again, the approval of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine by the U.K. regulator. BioNTech says it expects
U.S. and E.U. authorization to follow by the middle of this month. The F.D.A. meets to discuss the vaccine on December 10th.
Joining us now is Dr. Mark McClellan. He is a former F.D.A. Commissioner. Dr. McClellan, fantastic to have you on the show. I appreciate U.S.
regulators and U.K. regulators on these things work differently, different timetables, different criteria, but I just want to get your opinion, your
view on the authorization today?
DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER F.D.A. COMMISSIONER: Well, Julia, it's a very important step. We will make a difference in England, obviously, which has
also been pretty hard hit especially recently by the virus.
The U.S. is a little bit behind. All eyes are on the F.D.A., but the F.D.A. also has an independent advisory committee that has a public meeting. The
F.D.A. has a somewhat different and more intensive process for looking at the safety data.
I think everything looks on track, as you said a few minutes ago for approval in the U.S., but very important for this safety checks and this
additional regulatory process to happen for the public to have confidence and for us to get vaccines widely taken up by Americans by people all over
the world.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, you've pointed to it there, and I can't help but notice that the United Kingdom will be administering this vaccine, perhaps even
before the F.D.A.'s meeting to discuss it next week, never mind giving the authorization and we start to see it distributed and used in the United
States.
President Trump accused the F.D.A. of dragging their feet. Do you see any evidence of that in what you're saying or what you're seeing or do you just
think this is a case of different ways of going about approving vaccines and greater levels of skepticism in the United States?
MCCLELLAN: Yes, the F.D.A. is following a process that it laid out early on in public guidance, and it has reinforced along the way. As you point out,
it is a little bit different than in England. England doesn't have this extra step with a public review by an independent advisory committee with
the transparency and a public discussion that go along with that.
But I do have a lot of confidence in the F.D.A. process. And remember, Julia, it's not just a matter of having an emergency approval, it's a
matter of getting the public to be willing to take the vaccines, a matter of distributing a vaccine that requires very special conditions.
It's a matter of getting people to follow through with two doses. So that's really where the hard work is going to be. These few days, I think in the
big picture, we are getting vaccines way, way faster than has ever been done before and the most important thing is going to be getting these out
into effective use in the broader public.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, speed is one thing. Trust in getting people to take this as an entirely different thing.
You wrote an op-ed and this was initially why I wanted to get you on the show, just saying, look, the data collection does not stop here. There are
still so many questions that we need to ask, and we're not going to know the answers to many of those for several months, in certain cases, over a
year, perhaps two years.
Just talk us through that and the importance of collecting data and gaining more information about what we're doing here.
MCCLELLAN: Yes, the emergency approvals we're seeing now are just that, they don't come with the usual long-term collection, especially on data on
safety. We know the vaccines -- we have very good evidence that the vaccines are very effective, but they are going to be used by millions of
people, maybe billions of people around the world.
So we want to make sure they're safe, too, and what the post market data collection will allow is answering questions like: are there rare side
effects that we should account for and making sure we get the most benefits out of the vaccines? Do the vaccines have immunity affects that lasts for a
long time, not just a few months?
And also, do people who take the vaccines -- we know there are going to be less likely, much less likely to get consequences from COVID themselves,
but they also have less transmission of the virus to other people. Remember, a lot of virus transmission is asymptomatic. So you can have a
very, very mild case, but still cause contagion to others.
Those are the kinds of questions, Julia that we need more evidence to address, and that's going to come after these emergency approvals.
[09:25:21]
CHATTERLEY: One of the things that leapt out in your op-ed to me was your discussion of mucosal immunity. And you pointed to the preliminary evidence
that we've seen where immune cells in the respiratory tract can help reduce the chance of the spreading of the virus in any case.
And of course, if you've got regions of countries where you have a high vaccination rate, low viral spread, it seems perhaps you could reduce the
mitigation efforts. How long -- because this, to me seems something very critical -- how long before we can perhaps pull enough data together where
we go, okay, we're confident this is what we're seeing now and we can relax some of those mitigation efforts?
MCCLELLAN: Yes, great question, Julia. I think if we do the studies, right, it's a matter of weeks to months after the initial approvals. It does look
like there is some possibility of this mucosal immunity, which again, basically means you not only aren't going to have serious consequences from
COVID, you may not even really get infected, so you don't transmit the virus to others.
Until then, though, it's very important for people to remember that it takes some time for the vaccines to have their effects, and we really need
to pay attention to masks and distancing and all the things that are so important right now when we're facing surges in so many parts of the world.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it makes perfect sense to me. The other thing that you questioned, and for me, this leapt out as well is just tracking who has had
the vaccine, who's come back for their second dose or not come back for their second dose.
I mean, when you've got -- if we take America as an example and there are other huge nations, particularly relative to smaller ones, like the U.K.,
just keeping track of that scale of information is going to be tough. How is that going to happen? Are we on top of that?
MCCLELLAN: Well, it's very important for every country to have an Information Technology system that can track not only when people got the
first vaccine, so that we can make sure and help them make sure they get the second vaccine on time, the second dose on time, otherwise, it is not
going to be nearly as effective as shown in the studies.
But remember, we're likely to have multiple vaccines available soon. So if people get one vaccine first dose, we make sure they get the second vaccine
for the next dose. In the United States, this is a complex process because we have lots of states, lots of different information systems. That's going
to be an issue, I think, in Britain as well, making sure we can put together all of these data appropriately.
And those data are also the basis for doing some more of these studies to see how people do. Do the vaccines work as well in practice as it looks
like they do in the trials? Does immunity last for a long time? All those kinds of questions we were just talking about.
CHATTERLEY: Dr. McClellan, is it right that we're giving people this vaccine so quickly? Do the benefits outweigh all the questions that you and
I have just discussed? All the logistical issues, potentially all the data analytics that we need to have in play? Is it right to give this vaccine
right now?
MCCLELLAN: You know, remember, we're starting with people, Julia, who are at the very highest risk and in the United States, like in England, it's
likely to be healthcare workers and people in nursing homes and community living facilities where there have been so many hospitalizations and deaths
as a result of the pandemic.
So those are people who are going to get a lot of benefit themselves from being protected from the serious consequences of COVID. With collecting
more data, as we get experience in these highest risk individuals, we will have more confidence about just how safe the vaccine is and people who are
lower risk, people who don't have so much risk of exposure, people who are not as old and who are less likely to have complications.
That's why this is an Emergency Use Authorization first and the highest risk individuals and why it is again, so important to get more data, more
evidence on how well the vaccines are working and especially whether there are any rare side effects.
CHATTERLEY: That's why communication is so key as well. Dr. Mark McClellan, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for joining us on the show
today. We'll get you back soon. The former FDA Commissioner there.
MCCLELLAN: Good to be with you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. All right, the market opens next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:32:35]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. stocks are up and running this Wednesday, and as expected, we are seeing a bit of a pullback in early
trading. There you can see it. The S&P and the NASDAQ easing from the records set yesterday. The Dow hovering below that 30,000 milestone that it
hit last week, like so many of us, the Dow appears to be a little conflicted after hitting 30 something, barely. Who wrote that? I didn't
like that. How dare they?
Okay. The long term prospects for the global economy are looking more encouraging now that vaccines are well and truly out the door. U.S.
Treasury yields are closing in on one month highs on hopes for stronger U.S. growth. But of course, short term pressures remain.
Numbers out today's show private sector jobs growth coming in. It's still positive, but a weaker than expected, 307,000 jobs last month. That's ahead
of the all-important payrolls numbers this Friday.
President-elect Biden's Treasury Secretary nominee, Janet Yellen, warning of a bleak winter ahead for the United States without new emergency aid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANET YELLEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN'S TREASURY SECRETARY NOMINEE: The pandemic and economic fall, while put together, have caused so much damage
for so many and have had a disproportionate impact on the most vulnerable among us.
It's an American tragedy, and it is essential that we move with urgency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Christine Romans joins us now. Christine, we've been saying, it's a tragedy for weeks and weeks and weeks. And it's almost as if
Congress just woke up to the fact that I can see three sort of plans forming and three total long shots.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and it's unclear whether all of this newfound drama in D.C. over the cliff that
Americans face and it is a cliff that the Americans face in just the matter of coming days.
It remains to be seen if they can get something done. They really have drawn their battle lines here, haven't they? When you look at these three
different plans, you know, Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader, he has got a plan that is narrower than what Democrats have wanted. It's got
elements the Democrats have rejected before, and is much smaller in scope.
Then, another plan, a bipartisan sort of compromise plan. That's $908 billion dollars, but in that kind of opening to compromise for state and
local funding in that other bipartisan plan that may be a no-go, a nonstarter for both the President and for Mitch McConnell.
So there are new conversations happening. But Julia, it's the same thing that you and I have been dissecting for weeks now. I mean, the House passed
its new coronavirus relief way back in May. So they've had until May to get to this cliff and try to help Americans and they just have not been able to
get there yet.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, it's interesting. I read an incredibly comprehensive compilation, actually, over the weekend from the Century
Foundation that said, there's going to be 12 million Americans who are getting payments or benefits as a result of some of these specific pandemic
related programs that will lose those benefits come December 26th.
[09:35:39]
CHATTERLEY: So this is not the people that had the bump up in benefits that lost the money, the extra money in July. This is people who are probably
existing on this money that will lose them and still --
ROMANS: These are gig workers, right.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, still, Congress can't agree.
ROMANS: Now, and it's interesting, because Mitch McConnell in the breakdown -- and our Lauren Fox has a fantastic write up on cnn.com, if anybody wants
to really dive into these three plans, and sort of how the long shot status of all of them, but in that plan, there is an extension of a month for
jobless benefits for those people in the gig -- gig workers and another extension for unemployment benefits from some of the other state programs.
There's liability protections. That's something that Mitch McConnell has wanted from the beginning. There's more small business aid. There's also
some funding for testing and vaccines and $105 billion for school funding. And in there as well, there's a discussion about allowing states more time
to use the aid they've already been awarded.
So you can see, he is maybe trying to breach that gap that he has with Democrats who want more money for state and local funding. I was listening
to some hearings yesterday with Steven Mnuchin and the Fed Chief Jay Powell to the Senate, and I think it was John Tester from Montana, who had a
really interesting point about this, this argument over the state local funding. He says for people to, you know, blast states and localities for
needing money from the Federal government, because they should have been taking care of their finances better before the crisis struck.
He pointed out that the U.S. Federal government has had trillion-dollar deficits during the best economy in years that they are -- they are taking
that advice themselves and this is a coronavirus pandemic. You're talking about firefighters, teachers, public workers who face some real hardship if
we don't figure out how to stabilize those revenues for states and local governments.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, compromise. There's no excuse not to compromise, they just have to find it.
Christine Romans, thank you so much for that.
ROMANS: Nice to see you.
CHATTERLEY: Coming up next: new President, new approach. The CEO of payments giant, Ripple, on their future regulation of the sector, the
crypto boom and what's driving that demand. Stay with us. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:40:49]
CHATTERLEY: Crypto funds have been reminding us of a headline from 2018 which reads: "Most cryptocurrencies will crash to zero, Goldman Sachs
says." This was a note to investors warning about the risks that several if not most, cryptocurrencies will fail.
Just look at this over the last 12 months and what a rally there's been for these big three: XRP enjoying gains of 186 percent, Bitcoin and Ethereum or
Ether also showing huge gains as you can see now.
XRP is the digital currency or assets that facilitates payments on the payment platform, Ripple, which provides fast and cheap international
transactions worldwide. The network is used by payment providers like banks and money services businesses, and I'm excited to say Brad Garlinghouse is
Ripple's CEO and he joins us now.
Brad, fantastic always to have you on the show. I have to say this year has been interesting, the rise of digital payments anyway due to COVID. Some
big investors throwing the towel in and saying fine, I was a skeptic. I've changed my mind. Square and PayPal getting involved. What's driving the
gains this year in your mind?
BRAD GARLINGHOUSE, CEO, RIPPLE: Well, first of all, Julia, thank you for having me back. It has definitely been an exciting year across crypto. I
think one of the most macro important dynamics that is driving the crypto market is the fact that many governments around the world are printing more
fiat currencies.
Here in the United States, you see, you know, trillions of dollars of stimulus. And that means that we're inflating the U.S. dollar. And when you
inflate the U.S. dollar, there's many people that want to hold noninflationary assets.
You've seen the same dynamic really with gold and the year that gold has had. And so I think people are seeing crypto as, in some cases, an
inflationary hedge. As you pointed out, you're seeing names like Paul Tudor Jones and Stan Druckenmiller come into crypto and see it as an investable
asset, and I think those are important dynamics that are driving this market.
CHATTERLEY: So you're saying that the greater share of the gains that we're seeing are being driven by the store of value argument here for digital
currencies or digital assets, perhaps rather than utility function, which differs depending on which digital currency you're talking about, and quite
dramatically?
GARLINGHOUSE: Yes, look, I have said for years, and I've said that with you, I violently believe that the long term value of any digital asset is
going to be derived from its utility. I think one utility is store value, and you're seeing that across Bitcoin. You're seeing that across other
cryptocurrencies that don't have an inflationary dynamic.
As you introduced in the beginning of the segment, Ripple is using an open source digital asset, XRP, to solve a payments problem, and it's extremely
good at that because it's extremely fast and extremely cheap on a per transaction basis, particularly at a time when a Biden administration is
arriving. And I think things like climate change, things like environmental impact of energy usage will increase on the importance in the radar.
I think there'll be more and more attention on the efficiency and scalability of a technology like XRP in contrast to other technologies that
have what we call proof of work or mining, which takes a massive amount of power, as you know, well, having balled the space.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, you tweeted about this, he said hey, if we've got a government that's going to be more climate change focused, which clearly
President Biden will be, then perhaps people like Square, they are investing in Bitcoin need to be to be aware of this.
I will point out and you've also pointed out, you are a Bitcoin holder, you want all currencies to succeed here, but again, it goes back to the idea of
distinguishing between them. Do you see this is the end of perhaps Bitcoin dominance? It is talked about most, it has the largest market share, and
particularly when I go back to the chart that I just showed at the rise in value over the last 12 months, there is a relative outperformance of some
of the other digital assets here versus Bitcoin. Is this the moment where we see the beginning of the end of the dominance of Bitcoin?
GARLINGHOUSE: Well, I think Bitcoin is going to remain a very important kind of player within the crypto community. It has been and I think will
continue to be.
For so many people and even as you mentioned, Square and others that when they first get involve with crypto, they start with Bitcoin and then from
there, they expand their portfolio.
[09:45:10]
GARLINGHOUSE: I think it's important to have that entry point in getting people comfortable. And so I don't think it'll change dramatically. I think
Bitcoin has been -- and I think will continue to be solving a use case that utility question around store of value. But as you pointed out, I think
they're going to see micro cases, or even very large cases, in the case of XRP, as a payments tool, particularly why Ripple uses it for cross border
payments.
You're talking about your trillions and trillions of dollars that are flowing across border in a system that was really designed and built 50
years ago, I'm sure you personally have had the experience of moving money across borders, and it's slow, and it's expensive. And we can and will
enable much more efficient and much cheaper solutions.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's the equivalent of steam engine technology. And it's not 21st Century, we've talked about it on the show before.
Talk to me about regulation because this is what it distills down to, what the future of regulation looks like. You've said, look, we're a patriotic
U.S. company. We want to remain here. But the regulation here is, to some degree suppressing innovation. It's restricting your business and you see
others doing better around the world.
Where are you on the decision, perhaps to relocate in order to facilitate growing the business?
GARLINGHOUSE: You know, we absolutely want to see the United States lead in this new arena that we call blockchain and cryptocurrencies. And I think we
certainly saw that in the age of the internet 20 plus years ago that the U.S. had clear regulatory frameworks and that allowed investors to come in
and make those investments.
Today here in the United States, we're actually out of step with some of the other G-20 markets around the world. You know, in the U.K. or in
Singapore, or in Japan, you have had that regulatory clarity. You asked why Bitcoin has outperformed and one of the reasons is likely that there is
clarity and certainty about Bitcoin's regulatory framework here in the United States.
That hasn't been the case with other cryptocurrencies including XRP. But when you have that certainty and you have that clarity, if you're an
investor or you're a developer using these technologies, you can invest in them and you can build on top of them with clarity and certainty.
The U.S. has not provided that certainty yet, and we have been big advocates of a bill that was introduced in Congress called the DCEA or
Digital Commodity Exchange Act. We think it's a very important step in providing that clarity and that certainty here in the U.S.
CHATTERLEY: Do you need that clarity before you IPO, Brad?
GARLINGHOUSE: Well, that's a great question. You know, we have not been public about what our plans are to go public, with the exception that I've
said, I think there will be public crypto companies. I originally predicted we'd see them in calendar year 2020, I think you and I may have discussed
that.
CHATTERLEY: You did. We did.
GARLINGHOUSE: I think the pandemic has affected a lot of things. I think that has slowed things down a bit. But look, it's very clear, there is
enthusiasm for real use cases to solve real problems, and when those are scaled problems, I think you're going to see a lot of investor interest in
both the crypto markets as well as the public equity markets.
CHATTERLEY: What does an ideal regulatory framework look like for Ripple and for the digital asset, XRP? I just want to give viewers a sense of how
it is holding you back. Is it preventing you adding central banks to the platform? Is it preventing customers, particularly international companies,
joining the payments network, too? What specifically is it preventing at this stage?
GARLINGHOUSE: Well, oftentimes, when I'm speaking to customers, and we're talking to them about our product that uses XRP in the payment flows, they
will ask me about the regulatory dynamics. And we have had customers say, look until there is clarity and regulatory frameworks, then we're going to
hold off.
Now that has not been the case because of the clarity and the certainty in countries, as I mentioned, like the U.S., excuse me, like the U.K. or the
UAE or Switzerland. You do you have companies in those markets saying, absolutely, we're supportive. Let's move forward.
Here in the United States, you know, we actually have -- 95 percent of our customers are non U.S. customers, and only about five percent are here in
the U.S. and people say well, why? You know, you're a U.S. company, why is that?
One of the dynamics is we have U.S. companies who are waiting for clarity and the clarity really is -- it emanates from the Securities and Exchange
Commission. The U.S. S.E.C. said two and a half years ago, almost three really that Bitcoin was not a security and then they came out about two
months later and said that Ether is not a security and then they stopped and instead focused their energy on some of the bad actors in the ICO
market, Initial Coin Offering.
So for us around XRP and the over hundred companies that are working with XRP, getting that clarity and that certainty, it is very clear to me that
XRP has been used by many companies as a currency. You've had the U.S. Department of Justice refer to XRP as a currency. You've had FinCEN refer
to it as a currency. But you haven't yet had that clarity from the U.S. S.E.C.
[09:50:16]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it is hugely important, Brad. Don't move a muscle because we're going to wrap up the conversation here, but you and I are going to
continue to discuss and I'll post the remainder of this interview on social media. So for now, Brad Garlinghouse, the CEO of Ripple. Thank you.
And check out the rest of this interview on my Twitter page @JuliaChatterleyCNN. That's @JuliaChatterleyCNN.
All right, you're watching FIRST MOVE. More to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:52:39]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Massive preparations are now underway in China for the global distribution of COVID-19 vaccines once
they are approved. CNN has had exclusive access to the infrastructure in Southern China and David Culver has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're looking at one of the cargo jets that will soon be taking vaccines that are approved here in China made by
Chinese biotech companies to the rest of the world.
This one is a charter: Ethiopian Cargo. It's their pharma wing. Look over here, you can see they are already loading up some of the PPEs and some of
the facemasks, some of the hazmat like suits. Inside, however, they have built an infrastructure that has temperature and climate control. Why does
that matter? Well, as soon as the vaccines are approved, they have to be kept at a certain temperature setting, and that is the only way they can be
transferred from start here in Shenzhen in southern China to finish.
For this aircraft, it continues on to the Middle East.
One thing that's important to note is the logo on the side, Cainiao. That is a part of Alibaba. It is their logistics and distribution part.
Normally, they are doing good that people are buying online. Think of Amazon, but on a massive scale. That is a company that here in China is
helping with the distribution of vaccines as soon as they are given the go- ahead.
WAN LIN, CEO, CAINIAO: We are ready to move the vaccines.
CULVER (voice over): Cainiao CEO, Wan Lin says the company is now adding more routes for greater global reach.
LIN: We are not quite sure about the exact demand on that, but we are definitely building our capacity to be prepared for that.
CULVER (voice over): While China has yet to approve a vaccine for public use, Cainiao says their end to end climate-controlled infrastructure is in
place and ready.
The required temperature which differs depending on the vaccine must be maintained throughout transport from leaving the production facility to
airport storage and finally, the global cargo distribution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For example, the center in the airport terminals, they have already set up a cold chain warehouse, mainly for the medicine
suppliers.
CULVER (voice over): CNN got an exclusive look inside that cold chain facility which will soon store the approved vaccines.
[09:55:05]
CULVER (on camera): These chambers can be specified and even customized based on the required temperature for each vaccine, and they can put them
in different chambers within so as to accommodate that.
CULVER (voice over): CAINIAO now then works with different airlines to ensure the cargo temperature is sustained throughout the flight. In this
case, Ethiopian Airlines.
Since the start of the pandemic, they flown more than 3,000 tons of supplies to Europe, Africa, the Middle East and South America.
TEKLE G/YOHANNES, ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES: So we do the same also for the vaccine to distribute to all destinations around the globe, and then we get
to cure a lot of human beings.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: David Culver reporting there and that just about wraps up the show. Great to be with you today. We will see you tomorrow.
I'm Julia Chatterley. You've been watching FIRST MOVE.
Stay safe and take care of each other. We'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
