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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Security In D.C. Remains Tight As President Trump Prepares Mass Pardons; A Strong Final Quarter For China Lifts 2020 Growth; Parler, The Controversial Social Network Appears To Be Back Online. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired January 18, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE, and here's your need to know.
Transition tension. Security in D.C. remains tight as President Trump prepares mass pardons.
China's charge. A strong final quarter lifts 2020 growth.
And Parler games. The controversial social network appears to be back online.
It's Monday, let's make a move.
Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Great to be with you, as always, as we kick off a historic week here in the United States. We've got Donald
Trump's departure and Joe Biden's blast off all set for Wednesday this week. But of course, as I mentioned, there is tension amid that transition,
an unprecedented tightening of security is underway not only in Washington, of course, but across capitals in the United States. All the details,
coming up on the show.
Today of course is a Federal holiday. It's Martin Luther King Day in the United States, so stock and bond markets here are closed. The big economic
news coming out of Asia, let's call it China in charge or China's charge. The country reporting a world beating 6.5 percent rise in fourth quarter
GDP. Now, all skepticism about the exact number and concerns about lagging productivity aside that equates to a 2.3 percent growth rate for the whole
of 2020. The United States by contrast, is expected to see growth fall by more than three percent for 2020.
Chinese stocks closed higher on the news. We'll walk you through all the intricate details of that shortly, but it was a mixed day overall in Asia.
The South Korean KOSPI fell sharply, dragged lower by Samsung shares. This, after the firm's Vice Chairman was sentenced to 13 months in prison for
bribery. What will it mean for Samsung's business and the broader restructuring efforts? Well, we'll be asking the question later.
For now, let's get to Europe where shares of auto giant, Stellantis are rallying on their market debut in Milan and Paris. Never heard of it,
understandable. It was a company formed after the merger of Fiat-Chrysler and Peugeot parent company PSA, Stellantis.
Business at least in terms of corporate earnings and the Biden administration's first moves will be Wall Street's focus in the coming
week. But of course, we've got to get there first. Let's get to the drivers.
Joe Biden's inauguration just two days away yet instead of bunting, barbed wire and barricades around the Capitol where Joe Biden will be sworn in.
With 25,000 National Guard troops filling the streets, it's been relatively quiet, but security fears linger.
Jessica Schneider has the details.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Barbed wire and barricade surround the U.S. Capitol under the close watch of the National
Guard this morning. The elevated security across Washington, D.C., a response to the deadly insurrection earlier this month.
All an effort to prevent similar chaos that President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration Wednesday. Up to 25,000 National Guard troops could join other
law enforcement agencies in the nation's capital, and the Inauguration rehearsal originally scheduled for Sunday was pushed to today amid reports
of online chatter, but the Department of Homeland Security says there are no credible threats right now.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): There is a profound threat from domestic violent extremists of the nature we saw on January 6. I think the inauguration will
proceed and it will proceed safely. But there will be gatherings of individuals and those gatherings could turn violent. So there's a very high
level of risk.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): Some small groups gathered in state capitals across the country greeted by a large police presence.
MICHAEL SHAW, MICHIGAN STATE POLICE: We kind of looked at everything from last week some of the chatter that we had heard from the F.B.I. and some of
the social media there, but we wanted to make sure that what happened in Washington did not happen here in Michigan.
So we put a lot more security outside, a lot more visible security.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): In D.C., police arresting a 22-year-old man near a security checkpoint Sunday for allegedly carrying a gun and nearly 40
rounds of ammunition, as well as a woman Saturday stopped at a checkpoint impersonating a police officer.
And with the heightened security close to major Washington landmarks, D.C.'s mayor says she's fearful rioters could target other parts of the
city in the coming days.
MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D), WASHINGTON, D.C.: Now, we don't want to see fences. We definitely don't want to see armed troops on our streets, but we
do have to take a different posture.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): This, as more footage from the pro-Trump mob storming of the U.S. Capitol earlier this month surfaces.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): "The New Yorker" releasing this video showing the trail of destruction left behind by insurrectionists. Authorities arresting
more people involved in the riot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went there to support my President and stand up for our country.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): Among them, Couy Griffin, a New Mexico county commissioner who was detained just blocks away from the U.S. Capitol
The District of Columbia Attorney General warns President Trump could possibly be charged in relation to the coup attempt.
KARL RACINE, WASHINGTON, D.C. ATTORNEY GENERAL: You have to be, you know, incredibly diligent and responsible whenever you're going to charge anyone.
The President is not above the law. He's not below the law.
Our charge is a misdemeanor, a six months in jail maximum.
CHATTERLEY: Meanwhile, President Trump is preparing to announce some 100 pardons and commutations on Tuesday, his last full day in office. Three
sources telling CNN that the last big batch of clemency actions is expected to include white collar criminals, high profile rappers, and political
Joe Johns joins us now. Joe, on that point, perhaps the most interesting part of the pardons is what isn't expected to be on the list and that is
the President himself and his family members, as far as we know.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. As far as we know, anything can happen in this White House, as you know, Julia, but the
indication is the President is not going to go there by pardoning himself, and probably a number of reasons for that in the first place, if you issue
a pardon to yourself, then it immediately suggests that you've committed a crime or done something that you could be found guilty of.
Probably, the second factor is the impeachment trial that's coming up, up on Capitol Hill. If the President were to pardon himself, it could
certainly create some heat in the United States Senate where the trial is being held and heat is the thing the President does not want because no
United States President has ever been convicted in an impeachment trial up on Capitol Hill, something Donald Trump would not like to have on his
resume -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. No wants to be allegedly creating evidence of their own guilt, perhaps right in the middle of a Senate impeachment trial. This is a
What about the people involved in the Capitol trials? Because a number of them have put out reports on social media, requests for a pardon from the
President on social media saying, look, we were just following what he was asking for.
JOHNS: Right. Crazy, isn't it? And I think probably the best example of that is a fellow named Jacob Chansley. He has been pictured in a number of
the videos in the United States Capitol. He's wearing fur and horns.
And his attorney has said, he'd like to see a pardon because the takeaway is that the President invited these people to do that, and now ought to
give them a pardon. However, if the President were to pardon any of the rioters, it would create yet another problem for him in the impeachment
trial, because it would certainly create a picture of complicity, even more than we've already seen -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And that's a great point. Isn't that the guy that's getting organic food, as well, in Federal prisons? Fascinating to watch
what's going on there. Very quickly, Joe, declassification of information related to the Russia probe. What's the likelihood of this?
JOHNS: Anybody's guess. Again, the big question, of course, is what's in there? The President has pushed again and again for declassification of
information from the Russia probe. But we just don't know, after you pour through whether is it a net gain or net loss for the President once it gets
And then there's a question of just stirring up the hornet's nest on the Russia investigation once again, with everything else that's going on in
Washington right now -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, on the final countdown. Joe Johns, thank you so much for that. So join us for our extensive live coverage of the Biden Inauguration
this Wednesday, January 20th.
All right, let's move on. China says its economy expanded 2.3 percent last year. China, the only major economy to see growth in 2020 according to
I.M.F. estimates. Steven Jiang us now with all the details. Steven, what can you tell us about the contours and the details within this number?
STEVEN JIANG, CNN SENIOR BUREAU PRODUCER: Julia, it's all about perspective, isn't it? This is -- the last time they saw this number this
bad was back in 1976 when Chairman Mao was still the ruler of this nation.
But as bad as it sounds for China, this is actually as you mentioned, a positive, a positive growth. So that's something officials here have been
highlighting. And also they have been pointing to the positive trend they have seen since the second quarter of last year.
JIANG: Remember, the first quarter of 2020 was abysmal because of the nationwide lockdown. The economy shrank by almost seven percent. But the
economy has been bouncing back ever since with the pace of recovery, picking up as you mentioned, the last quarter, the most recent quarter, it
grew six and a half percent. So this is something the officials have been highlighting and also other encouraging signs on the international trade
front. The Chinese surplus over its partners, trading partners last year also expanded.
So the key to all of this, of course, is the Chinese economy was ahead of the curve in dealing with the fallout from the pandemic and the top-down
power structure in this country allows the government to really contain this virus relatively quickly.
So by late spring, early summer last year, the country was ready for reopening for business. Now they have been implementing these policies ever
since including pumping money into large infrastructure projects, offering cash handouts to consumers and the benefit the economy has received because
of soaring global demands for PPEs and medical supplies, many of these products obviously made here in China.
So all these factors, Julia, really contributing to this positive growth rate for China for 2020 -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: That's such an important point, Steven, as well. I mean, just looking at the National Bureau of Statistics data, the fact that actually,
as much as they've tried to push consumption to play a greater role, the government here and their influence in supporting the economy, crucial
actually; consumption now 54 percent of GDP and it was 57 to 58 percent last year, quite fascinating. Steven Jiang, great to have you with us.
The role of government both in controlling COVID and supporting the economy, vital.
All right, let me bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories making headlines around the world.
The Kremlin's top critic speaking out for the first time since being detained in Moscow over the weekend. Alexei Navalny accusing the Russian
government of the highest level of lawlessness over a hastily arranged court hearing. Police detained Navalny on Sunday after he flew in from
Berlin five months after barely surviving an assassination attempt.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen joins us now from Moscow. I know a lot of people -- and Fred, great to have you with us with us -- looking at this and thinking how
brave he was to go back to Moscow after everything. CNN specifically in reporting has uncovered about what happened here with the poisoning five
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, obviously, knowing that he could be arrested as well, because the Russian
authorities had said before he even flew back that they are obliged to arrest him once he lands because there are several trials or several cases
that are going on against them.
First and foremost, a fraud case from 2014, which he says is politically motivated where back then, he received a suspended jail sentence that has
since been turned into a real jail sentence. And so he was detained the moment that he landed here in Moscow.
There was really an odyssey that led up to that. I was out there yesterday at Vnukovo Airport yesterday waiting for that flight to come in and there
were a lot of Navalny supporters there, a lot of journalists out there as well. And then his flight got diverted in the last moment, Julia, to a
different airport in Moscow and that's where he was then detained on arrival.
You can see the pictures here of him and his wife, Yulia, inside of the airport bus going towards the terminal from the plane where then he was
taken into detention. What's happened since then has been really fast moving, Julia, and Alexei Navalny was then brought to a police station in
Khimki in the north of Moscow, and he said that he wasn't allowed to speak to a lawyer or anyone else.
But this morning, guards came into his cell and told him, by the way, there's a hearing going on against you and that hearing is starting in one
minute. And so he was brought into a makeshift room where there was a makeshift court. This wasn't even a real court here in Moscow.
And there, just a couple of minutes ago, after that hearing, they came down with a verdict that said, and I'm getting this literally off the presses
right now that he is to remain in detention for 30 more days. That happened just a couple of minutes ago.
Now, the trial for that fraud case that I mentioned before, that was supposed to happen on the 29th. It's not clear whether or not these
conflicts in any way shape or form, but at least 30 more days, Alexei Navalny will remain in detention and he has or his supporters, Julia, have
sent out a video message also just a couple of minutes ago where he said do not be afraid to his supporters, go out on the streets. Not for my sake,
for his sake, obviously, but for your own sake.
So a lot of things happening here in Moscow, all this, a very fast moving situation after Alexei Navalny returned here to the Russian Capitol and was
immediately detained -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: I'm just looking at the pictures of people shouting there that we're showing our viewers. What has the response been from the Russian
public both to his return, but also to point, to his immediate detainment?
PLEITGEN: Yes, well, these are these are live pictures right now outside of that detention center there in the north of Moscow. Obviously, some people
quite angry. I would say, it's a couple of hundred people who are out there. And yesterday there was a couple of hundred supporters at the
airport as well waiting for his arrival, but then he obviously went to a different airport.
PLEITGEN: The outcry here, this was to be expected, was fairly muted here in Moscow. It's not that many people coming out in the streets, obviously,
very cold at this point in time, but generally, Alexei Navalny, he does have a good share of supporters here in this country. But of course, a lot
of the opposition in this country has been marginalized over the past couple of years. So very difficult to muster support for people coming out.
He does have a lot of support, though, online for a lot of his videos, a lot of the things that are being posted about the investigations that he
has put out over the past years as well. So certainly, there are a lot of people here in this country who are quite angry about all this.
And of course, then you also have the big international outrage that is happening as well, with the leaders in countries from the European Union,
the United States, obviously Secretary of State and also the incoming National Security Adviser posted statements as well.
There certainly has been a lot of international backlash from this and some backlash here in Russia as well. We've heard also from the Russian Foreign
Minister a little earlier today, Julia, not surprisingly, he was saying that Western journalists simply want to divert attention from the problems
that are going on in the West, so they have the Russian government's take on it as well -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And surprising. Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much for that.
All right, coming up on FIRST MOVE, a flight to the future. The founder and CEO of AirAsia, Tony Fernandes discusses diversifying from flight to food
And right or wrong, the ethics of silencing a President. Should social media CEOs have that power? We'll explore next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the show. As the number of passengers taking flights struggles for takeoff, one of Asia's most recognized entrepreneurs,
Tony Fernandes is looking for income from the ground. He is taking the Malaysian carrier which you bought for under a dollar in 2001, into new
revenue streams and that includes the delivery of fresh food from its app.
CHATTERLEY: AirAsia plans to generate half of its revenue from nonflying sources by 2024. Fernandes is the founder and CEO of AirAsia Group, and he
joins us now. Tony, a great pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
What a challenge.
TONY FERNANDES, FOUNDER AND CEO, AIRASIA GROUP: Great to be with you, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: What a challenge you've set yourself. I do want to talk about the transformation and what the future for the group looks like. But just
talk to me about the flying part of the business in terms of bookings? Routes? What are you seeing today?
FERNANDES: Yes, we're having -- we're a bit patchy at the moment because there's some lockdowns, borders aren't fully open. But what I can say is
demand is phenomenally strong. Obviously, domestic is very good and 50 percent of our business is domestic.
So vaccines are coming out, the numbers are coming down. So I think by about the second quarter, we will see resumption of strong domestic and
maybe towards the end of the year, the international orders will open so -- but, the important thing for me is demand is there. There's a massive pent
up demand of travel and so we remain relatively optimistic.
CHATTERLEY: What about for employees, Tony, you because I remember one of the promises that you made right at the beginning and you let 2,400 workers
go, you said, look, I want to rehire everybody. What are you looking at in terms of timing, based on what you said, the demand is there, we just have
to get going.
FERNANDES: Yes, well, I mean, I, unfortunately can't control those borders opening, and you have so much inconsistency. Some countries are easier,
some countries are really tough. Today, we see Australia saying, you know, they're not going to open the borders until the end of the year.
But a lot of what we're trying to do also is rescale our staff and a lot of them are being retrained into this new digital adventure that we are
embarking. But I would say, you know, I think travel won't return for a short haul airline such as ours, won't return until about 2022.
And then I think then we can start looking back at pulling all our stuff back. That's a big challenge for me, but it's a very important challenge
CHATTERLEY: Do you think some of those border reopenings are ultimately going to depend on who has had a vaccine? And passengers being required to
have a vaccine in order to enter some Asian nations?
FERNANDES: Yes, I think -- I think so. I mean, I think it's -- you know, if you go back in history and you see the days we used to carry the United
Nations certificate with polio and malaria and all these things that you had to take, diphtheria, I think COVID is going to be that. I think
countries are going to insist on that.
Having a vaccine doesn't mean you don't carry it, but I think people are going to insist on that, I can see that.
CHATTERLEY: You also reiterated your relationship with Airbus and said, look, we may be canceling some of our orders, but we continue to maintain a
strong relationship with them. Tony, just based on what you're saying and the lack of control over things like borders, the vaccine delivery and
administration, is there a risk that you have to cancel more orders going forward?
FERNANDES: Well, I think delay more than cancel. Certainly from AirAsia's standpoint, AirAsia X is a different story. But in AirAsia's standpoint,
we're not canceling any orders at the moment, we're just delaying orders. I mean, obviously, we can't take planes at the moment, because we can't even
fly our existing fleet.
But we definitely think we'll end up taking all of those planes because you know, the 321 is a fantastic plane. It gives us much better costs and I
think costs are going to be very important going forward.
I think leisure travel will be strong and one with the lowest cost will be the lowest fares, I think that's going to stimulate travels. So we will
take those planes, it's just going to take a bit longer.
CHATTERLEY: Tony, let's talk about the transformation. In October of last year, you announced or unveiled this brand new identity for airasia.com and
the development of this super app, even down to things like food delivery. Talk to me about this because this is interesting.
FERNANDES: Well, I was delivering food myself the other day.
FERNANDES: So yes, on a bicycle. I didn't quite look as good as those delivery guys, but I still did it.
CHATTERLEY: You're working on it.
FERNANDES: I'm working on it. I am working on it. But if I -- you know pre- COVID, look, this whole digital revolution, and we were a digital company from the beginning. We were one of the first airlines to use the internet
to sell tickets 19 years ago.
But I think our biggest asset in the airline is data, and prior to COVID, we had started this journey of taking our data and using it to create new
We launched a Fintech business BigPay, which is on its way to becoming a neobank. We've already got a million customers. And then I said to my guys,
look, if you think people are just coming to AirAsia and not going anywhere else, you're wrong. They're checking other websites, et cetera.
So let's become an OTA. Let's become an Online Travel Agent and start selling other airlines and hotel supply. So that was the birth of our
platform. And then with our great customer information and loyalty information, plus a very strong air logistics, we decided to add ground
logistics and be an end-to-end delivery system.
FERNANDES: I think Amazon is an amazing delivery company and whatever you put on top of it is easy because they have great logistics.
So we had great logistics in the air. We've added now the land, and so then we we've added three e-commerce products. So it's a combination of e-
commerce and online travel agent, which is e-commerce logistics, and Fintech.
And I feel very optimistic of the future. We don't require lots of cash. We've learned a lot from the incumbents, and I think we can be profitable
quite soon. So good start so far, that's one of the blessings of COVID, it has got us focused and we've been able to launch a super app much quicker.
CHATTERLEY: How soon on the profitability, Tony? And I guess, for me, one of the biggest challenges I can see here is, if we're talking about
Southeast Asia, language barriers, logistical barriers, currencies. There's lots of differences when you're talking about the individual countries, if
you want to expand, not to mention competition in each of these brackets.
CHATTERLEY: What's the biggest challenge?
FERNANDES: We've come from that school, right? I mean, we created AirAsia as very much an ASEAN brand. We were the first airline to build a
multinational airline brand, having to deal with currencies, languages, culture, and we did it. So we're battle hardened.
ASEAN is a phenomenal market of 700 million people. But you're right, can you deal with all of those challenges? And we did as an airline, which is
probably one of the toughest things. I've got to say, digital is going to be a lot easier in my opinion.
Competition: we've had that all our lives. We started with two planes against all of these national carriers, and we became the largest airline
in ASEAN. So we know we've been borne out of competition, sometimes unfair competition. So the digital world is a more refreshing place.
Look, talk is cheap. We've got to do it. But you know, when we launched our food delivery service after a few weeks, we were doing 20 orders a day.
Today, we did 2,000 orders. So it's getting traction, and we're making money actually on all our digital properties via BigPay. But you know,
that's imminent over the next year.
CHATTERLEY: Fantastic. Tony, come back and talk to us soon. I want to track your progress. Fascinating times. And like you said, battle hardened so you
know what you're up against.
FERNANDES: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Tony Fernandez.
FERNANDES: Exactly, order some food and I'll cycle over to you. Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Better get my order in early. Founder and CEO of AirAsia. Thank you so much. Thanks, Tony.
All right. Coming up on FIRST MOVE, a week of first moves ahead in Washington. The Biden year is set to begin with a flood of executive orders
and a plea for healing during this tense, political time. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. In a little over 50 hours from now, Joe Biden will take the Oath of Office making him the 46th President of the
United States. Biden's term begins during an unprecedented time in U.S. history: a raging COVID crisis, a shaky vaccine rollout, and a weakening
economy will be top priorities during his first 100 days.
Joe Biden also expected to announce a flurry of Executive Orders and will reportedly move to kill the controversial Keystone XL Pipeline. Jessica
Dean is in Washington.
Jessica, great to have you with us. I have to say watching the President- elect speak over the last few days he gets it. There is not a second to lose.
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right, Julia, they are very clear and clear-eyed that they understand there's not a moment to lose
that they're going to have to work quickly and efficiently and effectively.
And to that end, we're learning more about the Executive Orders that the President-elect plans to sign into law once he assumes office on Wednesday.
There's a number of things, many of them -- most of them -- campaign promises that we heard on the campaign trail for months and months and
They include rejoining the Paris Climate Accord. They also include rolling back the travel ban on predominantly Muslim countries that President Trump
and his administration had put into place.
And you mentioned COVID. That is their number one priority. They know they have to get that under control and get these vaccines out here in the
United States. And to that end, there are a number of Executive Orders about that.
They include a Federal mask mandate that's going to apply to all Federal property where they have jurisdiction. They're going to order that people
be wearing masks. They are also going to extend the moratorium on evictions, and things like that. Also student loan payments, they're going
to extend the pause on that for people who are struggling financially who can't pay those right now.
So a number of things that they're going to do on day one, all of this to telegraph to the American people that they are moving, and that they are
moving quickly to do what he promised he would do.
Now, Biden has also talked about what he believes are the limitations of Executive Orders, that there's only so much in his opinion that the
Executive Branch has the power to do. Some progressives would like him to use it more forcefully and with more items. He wants Congress to pick up a
lot of his initiatives. They are expecting what they call robust congressional movement on this. They're hoping that Congress will take up a
lot of his initiatives.
He's got a lot that he wants to get passed through there. But of course, Julia, as you know, that's going to come down to whether Congress and the
Senate wants to play ball on this. They've got a 50/50 split there in the Senate and a very narrow Democratic majority in the House. And that means
there's going to be a lot of maneuvering, a lot of negotiating as to what they can get done when it comes to legislation on Capitol Hill -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: And that divide in the Senate and you illustrate it perfectly there, I think reflects the nation, too. And President-elect Biden said all
along, look, I'm your President whether you voted for me or not. But an incredibly worrying poll, I think from CNN released Sunday, showing that
just 19 percent of Republicans believe that Joe Biden was legitimately elected in this election, and obviously it follows the insurrection in D.C.
that we saw over a week ago.
DEAN: Yes, it's a staggering number, isn't it? Nineteen percent and the Biden team and I think most importantly, the President-elect is very aware
of what is going on and all the forces that are at play as he assumes office and he talked a lot about unity, about bringing together a divided
But when you look at numbers that puts it very starkly in black and white what he is up against in terms of section of America that doesn't believe
he's even legitimately in office. So they've got a lot to do on that front in terms of continuing to bring people together.
You know, you kind of turn to impeachment for a second as well, the second impeachment of President Donald Trump. You know, Biden really has kept his
focus on assuming office, on moving forward with his legislative priorities, and really has continued to say it's on Congress to decide
about how to move forward with impeachment, Julia, because he really is trying to walk this very fine, very delicate line between unity, bringing
people together, but also they do hold President Trump responsible for what happened on January 6, and believe he should be punished.
DEAN: But they also know they've got just a short amount of time to get done what they need to get done, and that Biden is going to be judged very
swiftly by the American people and if they're seeing changes in say, the first 100 days or so -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and only a slim majority of the country believes that the President should be impeached, which is the other battle here. Jessica,
Jessica Dean there in Washington, thank you for that.
And now speaking of those forces, Parler's website has reappeared online. The social network went down when Amazon kicked it off its web hosting
service for threats of violence by Parler's users in the wake of the Capitol siege.
Parler is popular with supporters of right-wing politics. Donie O'Sullivan joins us now. It is back, but you still can't download it from Apple or
from Google Play. So Donie, how back is it really?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Julia. We've seen sort of signs of life from Parler. They have up on their homepage a
message saying that they've -- that they are coming back. But right now, I mean, you can't go on there, you can't post stuff, you can't read stuff.
You can't engage in political dialogue or as we saw before, got shut down, violent rhetoric and misinformation.
But you know, many Trump supporters, many people on the far right since there has been a real sort of carpet bombing by the likes of Facebook and
Twitter on misinformation, on QAnon since the interaction in Washington, D.C., we've seen new apps like Signal and Telegram, some encrypted
messaging apps, including Signal where people are now going, where people are having these conversations, and that does pose a challenge because, you
know, when you have these conversations on Facebook and Twitter, possibly planning a violent protest, you know, that can be monitored, that for the
most part is out in the open.
But a lot of these conversations are now happening in sort of darker corners of the internet -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And this is quite a fascinating point and question, Donie, though, is the data provided by Signal Labs that suggested there's been a
73 percent decline in election fraud misinformation since Donald Trump was deplatformed on some of the biggest names like Twitter, like Facebook.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, and I mean, look, this is to put -- this is a very difficult thing to measure. Of course, you know, the 73 percent number is
quite precise. But what I would say is, is that, you know, certainly, you know, Twitter cut the head off the snake here.
You know, so much of the misinformation on the right and the far right came from the top down. It came from Trump. So, you know, if you do take Trump
off the platform that is going to have an impact, as well, of course, you know, last week, just in the course of a few days over last weekend,
Twitter removed 70,000 -- seventy thousand QAnon accounts.
Of course, the big question here is, Julia, why didn't they do that prior the insurrection? Why did it take a violent insurrection to see these
companies making moves like this?
So you know, there is a lot of answer -- there is a lot of questions for Silicon Valley to answer, and I think, you know, there's going to be a big
conversation, too, about the power of these companies. I mean, should they be able to shut down the President of the United States is the other side
CHATTERLEY: Oh, that's a great question. And I think we've been asking that question enough, Donie. Glad that you are. But your face there was a
picture you didn't buy that 73 percent statistic.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, that's right. And I just lost you there slightly, Julia, because we are here in Richmond. We're in Richmond, Virginia, where there
is a very, very high security presence as folks are expecting some possible protests here today.
And of course, platforms like Facebook we've seen have actually banned any organizing of protests in the Washington, D.C. area as we go into this
Inauguration week and as everybody has their guards up.
CHATTERLEY: Donie, that old chestnut where you have sound issues when someone tries to be controversial with you. Donie, you'll watch this hit
back and laugh. Great to have you with us.
Donie O'Sullivan, we shall reconvene, my friend.
Up next. Social media's 9/11. The power to shut down websites such as Parler should lie with governments, not tech executives, exactly to Donie's
point. This says the E.U. Commissioner, Thierry Breton and he joins us after the break.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the show. A new video published by "The New Yorker" Magazine gives us a fresh look at what it was like inside the
Capitol when it was stormed by President Trump's supporters on January the 6th. A warning, we've not censored the language and some of the images
you're about to see are disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knock, knock. We're here. Is this the Senate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where the fuck are they? Where are they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While we're here, we might as well set up a government.
CROWD: (Chanting "Treason.")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's take a seat, people. Let's take a seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Nancy Pelosi?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's vote on some shit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where the fuck is Nancy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We paid for it. This is our House.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of that chair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, this is our chair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree with your brother but it's not ours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're a democracy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It belongs to the Vice President of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he is in here. It's not our chair. Look, I love you guys, you're brothers. We can't be disrespectful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, don't disrespect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can steal an election, but we can't sit in their chairs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Those images shot in the chamber of the U.S. House of Representatives, the very heart of American democracy where laws are
passed, electoral votes are counted and the State of the Union address is delivered.
Our next guest says the riot on Capitol Hill his social media's 9/11 moment, which exposes the threat to our democracies posed by unregulated
tech companies. Joining us now is Thierry Breton. He is European Commissioner for the Internal Market. Commissioner, fantastic to have you
on the show. Just start by explaining what you mean, social media's 9/11 moment.
THIERRY BRETON, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER FOR THE INTERNAL MARKET: Well, first, just on the big shots are the images that we have seen. We have been very
shocked, I would like to tell you here also in Europe.
This assault against democracy was in effect, an assault against all of us, including here in Europe.
BRETON: Now these being said, I would like to tell you that yes, on January 8, social media decided to ban the President of the United States. It's not
a small story and we understand why they decided they should have done this.
But while doing this, obviously, as I recognize is their editorial responsibility, and they reacted to correct what they believed they had to
do, and you know that since then, there's been a lot of discussion regarding this famous Section 230 authorizing, of course, social media to
be without regard what was said on their networks.
And now, of course, we just realized that it will be a before and after, because now, after all this decision, definitely, social media will have to
take care of what happened on their networks.
CHATTERLEY: There's a couple of things there, Commissioner, the first thing is, to your point, social media companies can no longer hide behind this
mantra that they don't police content, they are just a platform for engagement.
But your second point, I think it's a very vital one. It shows how powerful tech companies CEOs have become that they can choose to switch off a
President to silence a President, and that's wrong, too, irrespective of what he is saying, surely?
BRETON: No, you're absolutely right. The first question, of course, is why they didn't do this before? Because obviously, what we have seen on January
6 was probably the result of what happened on social media before that, and that's the first question.
The second one, of course, is the one you raised. Is it normal that a tech company, a company could switch off the loudspeaker of a President and in
this case, supporters, without any democratic control? And I guess, regardless of what happened, and I said what had to be said on this event
and this is why here in Europe, we have decided a year ago, to work extensively in order to present two bills, very important bills, in order
to let's say, organize, even regulate our digital space. And this is called the DSA, Digital Service Act and DMA, Digital Market Act.
Through which, of course, we would like to take care of this, while of course, respecting the freedom of speech; while of course, avoiding massive
surveillance. But while giving to this systemic platform, we call them systemic platforms, where they are so powerful, like the one we are
speaking, an obligation to react quickly with specific laws against hate speech, against terrorism, against pedophile and pornography, against many
things, and all these vertical laws or bills will be, of course, voted through our democratic systems.
And then, we give obligations to the platforms to answer when something will happen and this is exactly what is to be discussed now here in Europe,
with our Parliament, and I hope that it would be able to pass a bill in the next few months.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, you could make the argument that when a social media CEO is powerful enough to turn off a President, it's because the government
has failed, because there isn't regulation, because it should be governments that control that versus social media companies being able to
pick and choose how they behave.
The premise of, I think what you're trying to achieve in Europe is, if it is illegal offline, it should be illegal online. Because the spillover
effects and what we saw in the Capitol was a classic example of that.
How should the E.U. and the United States work together on this because we're not going to fix this by Europe going alone or the United States
going alone? It has to be global surely.
BRETON: I fully agree with your last comment. And by the way, I agree also with what you said, because I have been advocating the fact that what is
illegal offline should be illegal online, and vice versa, by the way, and we definitely need to organize our digital space, while keeping what is
important for us.
And by the way, we belong to the so-called free world, the United States and the E.U. and it is extremely important to continue to work together. We
know that the world would be difficult, we know what's happening in Russia, we know what's happening in China and this is why we need to be closer and
closer, both the E.U. and the United States and we share the same value and here we are talking about our democracy.
BRETON: Of course, it will not be a government, which could be authorized to decide what to do, it should be some specific vertical laws, and this
will be done under the strict control of the Parliament, in other words of the people.
But again, we will need to keep things which are important: anonymity, no massive surveillance, everything which measures success of the internet, we
stay. But now, of course, for systemic platforms, you know, the bigger you are, the bigger responsibility you have. And this is exactly what we've put
In order to work for our bills, we had a very large consultation worldwide, more than 3,000 contribution, including governments, including all
companies on the planet or many, many, many governments and NGOs in the southwest. And now, we presented these bills based on this very important
So I have no doubt, of course that with the new administration, we will be able to discuss together because at the end of the day, we are very close
on this subject in the E.U. and in the U.S. But we will keep of course a free enterprise spirit.
CHATTERLEY: I'm glad to hear it, sir. Definitely time to act. Thierry Breton, the European Commissioner for the Internal Market. Sir, we'll speak
to you soon please, I hope -- and to track your progress.
FIRST MOVE is back after this. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: The Samsung Vice Chair is sentenced to 13 months in prison following a major bribery scandal in South Korea. Paula Hancocks has all
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Samsung heir, Jay Y. Lee is behind bars once again this Monday after the Seoul High Court sentenced
him to two years and six months for bribery and it was not a suspended sentence.
Now, this goes back to a court case that happened just a few years ago. It was part of the huge influence peddling scandal that engulfed South Korea
and actually brought down a President, the former President Park Geun-hye was impeached and she is currently behind bars as well. She has been
sentenced to a couple of decades for her part in this scandal.
So for Jay Y. Lee, the Samsung heir, back in 2017, he was sentenced to five years for bribery, bribing an associate of the former President Park Geun-
hye. He then went to prison, but then that sentence on appeal was reduced and was also suspended. So he ended up spending less than a year behind
But since then, the Supreme Court said that they believed that the bribes that had been dealt with in that court case had been undervalued. There was
more money than previously thought, so it has gone back to Seoul High Court and he is now sentenced to two years and six months. It's less than
prosecutors wanted, they had been pushing for nine years. But it's clearly more than Jay Y. Lee would have wanted.
HANCOCKS: Now, the year that he did spend behind bars will count towards that two and a half years. So it's unclear exactly how much he will be in
prison or how long he will be in prison.
It's interesting, though, that he did have supporters and also some industry leaders and corporate leaders who are asking for leniency saying
that it's important for him to be free because he is part of the economic recovery post COVID.
Now, this part of the economic recovery is really an argument that is quite often being used in the past when trying to negate or to lessen the terms
of some of these conglomerate heads, but certainly for those anti- corruption activists who do not appreciate what was a very cozy at one point relationship between the political elite and business leaders, they
will be pleased with this verdict today.
Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.
CHATTERLEY: All right, and that just about wraps up the show. You've been watching FIRST MOVE. I'm Julia Chatterley. Stay safe, and we'll see you