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First Move with Julia Chatterley

President Biden's First Full Day Tackles the COVID Crisis; New Administration Finds No Plan in Place for Dose Distribution; Founder of Alibaba Reappears after Months of Silence. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired January 21, 2021 - 09:00   ET



JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE, and here is your need to know.

Biden's blueprints. The President's first full day tackles the COVID crisis.

Vaccine vacuum. The new administration finds no plan in place for dose distribution.

And Jack's back. The founder of Alibaba reappears after months of silence.

It's Thursday. Let's make a move.

Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Great to be back with you today. We mark day one for President Joe Biden who said it perfectly yesterday, I think in

his Inaugural Address where he said the future is full of both perils and possibilities.

The perils unfortunately on display once again in today's jobless numbers. First time claims coming in at 900,000 people claiming last week. The

perils also dictated by the possibilities, too, and they lie in the hope for fresh emergency aid and the urgent task of getting more vaccines into

people's arms.

Investors remain ever hopeful. Futures are mostly higher after Wednesday's Biden bounce to all-time highs in fact, the best Inauguration Day rally

since the mid-1980s. Tech outperformed driven in part by a near 17 percent rally and Netflix, that on strong subscription numbers, they even hinted at

future share buybacks.

So far more than 80 percent in fact of companies reporting this earnings season have beaten admittedly lowered expectations.

What about in Asia? Well, stocks are mostly higher across Asia, too. The Hang Seng briefly, going beyond that 30,000 milestones. India's Sensex also

hit records, too.

Alibaba remains in focus. I mentioned it there that after cofounder Jack Ma materialized again, after a mysterious three-month absence, investors loved

it. All the details coming up.

We've got plenty coming up in the show, too. But let's get to the drivers because President Biden for less than a day, and already the executive

orders are piling up.

Here is Jeff Zeleny with a full recap.


JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With a stroke of a pen, President Joe Biden using his first hours in office to

address the multiple crises facing a deeply divided America.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With the state of the nation today, there is no time to waste. Get to work immediately.

ZELENY (voice-over): The new President signing 17 Executive Actions, launching a 100-day math challenge, stopping the U.S. withdrawal from the

World Health Organization and extending the existing eviction moratorium and pause on Federal student loan payments.

Biden also reversed some of President Trump's key policies, among them rejoining the Paris Climate accord, halting the Keystone XL Pipeline,

ending travel restrictions from several Muslim majority countries and stopping construction of the border wall.

And unlike her predecessor, Biden's Press Secretary says she is bringing back the daily briefing.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: His objective and his commitment is to bring transparency and truth back to government, to share the truth even

when it's hard to hear and that's something that I hope to deliver on in this role as well.

ZELENY (voice-over): The President also held a virtual ceremony to swear in top administration staff.

BIDEN: Everybody who is entitled will be treated with decency and dignity. That's been missing in a big way in the last four years.

ZELENY (voice-over): The Senate confirmed his first Cabinet nominee last night, approving Avril Haines for Director of National Intelligence.

Biden's arrival to the White House without the usual crowds and pageantry dampened not only by the pandemic, but also security threats.

But the Inauguration ceremony still went ahead Wednesday morning, Biden taking his oath at the U.S. Capitol.

BIDEN: I, Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. do solemnly swear --

ZELENY (voice-over): Before sharing a message of healing and unity on the same steps that became the site of a deadly insurrection just two weeks



BIDEN: We must end this uncivil war, to pitch red against blue, rural versus urban, conservative versus liberal.

We can do this if we open our souls, instead of hardening our hearts.

ZELENY (voice-over): His Inaugural Address moments after Kamala Harris made history --


ZELENY (voice-over): Becoming the first woman and first black and Asian- American Vice President.

At night, fireworks brightened the sky across the nation's capital, as the President and First Lady, Jill Biden looked on from the White House

balcony. The display, the finale of a virtual celebration featuring a star- studded lineup and three former Presidents.

An optimistic note amid a deadly pandemic for an Inauguration Day unlike any other.


CHATTERLEY: Meanwhile, sources tell CNN that the Trump administration left the Biden team no coronavirus vaccine plan. One source says they are,

quote, "Going to have to build everything from scratch."

Jeremy Diamond is at the White House for us. Jeremy, just to be clear. It's a Federal level plan. Everything seemingly left down to the states to

organize. We've said it before, we'll say it again: not a moment to lose for Joe Biden. What can we expect him to tackle and say today?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're exactly right, Julia. There was a plan under the Trump administration to distribute those

vaccine doses to the states. But then after that, it was really left entirely to the states as to how to distribute it.

And so what we're seeing from the Biden administration today is an effort to really unveil this nationally coordinated Federal government run

strategy. They released a 21-page document outlining that strategy, making very clear that this is going to be a coordinated response standing in

stark contrast to what we've seen from the Trump administration over the last year of this pandemic.

We will hear directly from President Biden today at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time talking about that new national strategy and we are also expecting the

President to sign 10 Executive Orders and Executive Actions today to address the coronavirus pandemic, to ramp up distribution of vaccines, the

testing, supply and other critical personal protective equipment to the states and the hospitals that need those supplies the most.

This 21-page strategy, again, is a departure from what we've seen from the Trump administration. But in large part, a lot of this is also going to

require a lot of funding from Congress. Biden of course, has unveiled a $1.9 trillion request from Congress for additional funding.

And again, much of his agenda on the coronavirus is going to require at least some of that funding to actually be enacted. So, we'll have to wait

and see whether or not he is able to convince Republicans and Democrats to get behind additional funding.

Already, some Republicans have resisted that kind of amount of money, especially after Congress already passed additional stimulus money in

recent weeks -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and those two things go hand in hand, but to your point exactly, I think whether it's policy or approach, the contrast here between

the Biden administration and the Trump administration couldn't be more stark.

Jeremy Diamond at the White House that for us. Thank you so much for that.

And vaccinations of course, an essential for the longer-term economic recovery, but Biden's team will have to act now to relieve some of the

pandemic's economic pain, too.

Biden's pick for Treasury Secretary, Janet Yellen said getting the nation and its people through the pandemic will be the new administration's top

priority and that means a focus on jobs, inequality and fresh stimulus.

Christine Romans joins us now. Christine, great to have you with us. To Jeremy's point here, a lot of the things that are going to dictate this

current recovery come down to tackling the virus, as we've talked about so many times, whether it's testing, whether it's tracing, whether it's

getting vaccines into people's arms, and for that, we're going to have to spend more money.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. You're already hearing these whispers of the deficit hawks again, and I'm

going to be very keen to hear if those whispers grow any louder here because, you know, the deficit and the debt -- national debt exploded

during the Trump administration even before the virus hit, and more money will have to be spent. That is what the Yellen has been saying.

She has been saying with interest rates as low as they are, this is the smartest thing we can do right now. It is to make sure that we come out of

this crisis with a vaccine distribution plan that's working, and then the economy can get back on track.

So, this is going to require money. It's going to require some spending. I'm also -- I harken back to just 10 years ago, right, a dozen years ago,

when we know in recent memory, the mistakes you can make by not spending enough and not spending enough money in the right places.

This is recent history, right? So, this is not a moment too soon here for this administration to get going here and they're got to get Yellen

confirmed and they've got to get some more money spent through Congress.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, if you keep those purse strings tight, you impair the speed of the recovery. You slow it down.

Some part of this as well, and Janet Yellen also talked about the fact that this K-shaped recovery, the haves and the have nots, was already in place

in this economy before and tackling inequality as we recover is going to be key. Also, paying for more stimulus is going to be about perhaps,

redressing some of the balances. And that means higher corporate tax rates, higher tax rates for the wealthiest perhaps in the nation. There's a whole

list of things that they're going to tackle here.

ROMANS: And it doesn't look to me, in terms of higher corporate tax rates and higher taxes on investors, for example, it doesn't look to me, like

Wall Street is too concerned about that with stocks at record highs, right?

Remember, when the Trump administration and Congress passed those tax cuts in 2017, Corporate America had been asking for 25 percent tax rate. Trump

out of the blue pulled out the number 21 and there was a 21 percent tax rate.

So, going back up a few points is not something that most companies are really worried about here. I can remember at the time, they were scrambling

to figure out how to spend all of their -- all the money they were saving from their bigger than expected tax cut, and they mostly gave it back to

investors. Remember?

So, I don't see Corporate America very concerned about taxes rising there. Also, that's going to be a tough sell in terms of, you know, higher taxes

on individuals, maybe higher capital gains taxes. I mean, that's something that he's going to have to have moderates in Congress to help him do.

You know, they're not worried about that at this point.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. If you look at the stock market, tough to fight it, quite frankly, to your point, Christine. Great to have you with us. Thank you so

much for that.

All right, Beijing expressing hope that President Biden will look at China, quote, "rationally and objectively." And shortly after his Inauguration,

the Chinese government slapped sanctions on nearly 30 former Trump administration officials, including Mike Pompeo, former Secretary of State

and Peter Navarro.

Ivan Watson is live in Hong Kong with more. Ivan, it was fascinating to see Pete Navarro's response. He sort of saw it as a badge of honor, quite

frankly, that he had taken a firm stance with China. But again, the contrast in China's approach here between the Trump administration

officials and the incoming administration is what I would call hopeful.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and we'll see how long that lasts. But it was pretty remarkable, Julia, to see the war of

words between the outgoing Trump administration and Beijing and the war of sanctions continuing even after Joe Biden had sworn his oath to then become

the President with this announcement coming from Beijing of 28 former Trump administration officials who've all been slapped with sanctions, and they

are among the most outspoken critics of China who served in that administration.

Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State; as you mentioned, Peter Navarro; the former National Security Adviser, O'Brien, and his deputy, Pottinger. The

former Health Secretary Alex Azar, John Bolton and Steven Bannon, and what the Chinese government has done is accused them of seriously violating

China's sovereignty and is banning them from Chinese territory, from Hong Kong and Macau, and also any organization that they may end up working with

in their civilian lives from doing business with China as well.

There was some also some last parting shots, for example, the state news agency, Xinhua, it published a tweet with the headline, "Good riddance

Donald Trump," a tweet that appeared to have been deleted a few hours later.

So how is this being received? Well, a spokesperson for President Biden's new National Security Council accused China of playing to partisan divides,

according to a statement to Reuters, and called this an unproductive and cynical move.

And if the Chinese government is hoping that there could be some kind of a reset, you had the Chinese Ambassador to Washington actually tweet that he

hoped that there could be some cooperation in areas like public health, climate change and growth with the Biden administration. The signals that

his top officials are sending are that they want to maintain the Trump administration's tough line on Beijing.

Take a listen to the nominee for Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, in comments he made in front of Congress this week.


ANTHONY BLINKEN, NOMINEE FOR U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Let me just say that I also believe that President Trump was right in taking a tougher approach

to China.

I disagree very much with the way that he went about it in a number of areas. But the basic principle was the right one, and I think that's

actually helpful to our foreign policy.


WATSON: And Blinken went on to say that he supported a recent designation by the outgoing Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who accused the Chinese

government of committing genocide against Uighur Muslims in the Xinjiang region making that accusation just this week. Blinken said he supported

that. We'll see how long that kind of rhetoric will be tolerated by Beijing, the Foreign Ministry Spokesperson in Beijing called Pompeo this

week, a doomsday clown -- Julia.


CHATTERLEY: It is quite fascinating, isn't it? The message seems to be and continues to be unity from this administration and divide and conquer as

far as the last administration simply isn't going to work. And Ivan, very quickly, this administration have already said even before they came to

power that we want a global and international consensus on how to handle China, and that's going to take time to build.

WATSON: It will take time to build, but according to political scientists I'm talking to here in Asia, in the Indo-Pacific region, there is some

optimism and openness from powers in the region that have had their own bilateral tensions with China.

It's had rough relations with everything from Japan and India on its border to The Philippines to Australia, and there is some hope from some of these

governments that the U.S. can be a cooperative partner not dictating to the so-called middle powers, but working alongside them to counterbalance what

many of them see as China's efforts to dominate the region.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. And that means as far as the United States and China is concerned, probably the tariffs and those restrictions will remain

for the foreseeable. Ivan Watson, we shall see. Thank you so much for that.

All right, let me bring you up to speed with some of the other stories making headlines around the world. China hoping to curb one of the world's

largest human migrations. It has announced travel restrictions amid a new wave of coronavirus cases ahead of the country's New Year's celebrations

next month.

Millions of migrant workers who want to travel will be required to present a negative COVID test starting next week.

Iraqi officials are investigating a double suicide bombing in Baghdad, the first such attack in the city in three years. At least 32 people have been

killed, 110 others were injured. The bombers blew themselves up in a busy market, the second detonating his explosives after a crowded gathered at

the scene of the first blast.

All right, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, vaccination passports are not the way to open up travel, says the World Travel and Tourism Council.

And Alibaba's Jack Ma are seen in public for the first time in months even as his Tech Empire faces scrutiny. We've got the latest. Stay with us.




JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: History, faith and reason show the way, the way of unity. We can see each other not as adversaries,

but as neighbors. We can treat each other with dignity and respect.

We can join forces, stop the shouting and lower the temperature for without unity, there is no peace, only bitterness and fury.

No progress, only exhausting outrage. No nation, only a state of chaos.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. President Biden there in his Inauguration Address yesterday calling on all Americans to help heal their

divided nation -- unity. So easy to invoke, so difficult to deliver, but crucial for the long-term economic health of the nation.

Unity on Wall Street, at least, U.S. stocks rose to fresh records yesterday, although it's looking like a relatively mixed start today. Unity

will most definitely be needed to tackle the numerous crises that America faces, but divisions will be on full display when the impeachment trial of

former President Trump also gets underway in the Senate. Lots to discuss.

Tina Fordham joins us now. She is Head of Global Political Strategy at Avonhurst. Tina, great to have you with us. What did you make of yesterday?

And there are two challenges here. There's the politics here of division and unity, and then there's the economics and the COVID crisis.

TINA FORDHAM, HEAD OF GLOBAL POLITICAL STRATEGY, AVONHURST: Absolutely. And I saw myself, you know, watching with kind of both lenses, if you will. I

mean, on the one hand, like all of these kinds of events, you know, highly formalized and very much telegraphed, I think to communicate a sense of

continuity, serenity, right down to the colors being more and lots of blues and purple. I know that's not technical political analysis.

But you know, we know that these decisions are made for a reason and the clip from Biden's speech, there were no big sound bites or even

particularly clever turns of phrase, it was about communicating this sense of needing to heal the divide, and he said himself, you know, almost

apologetically like at the risk of sounding like a drip, he said, you know, this could be a foolish fantasy.

But we learned a lot from that speech. And one of my takeaways was that the word impeachment was never mentioned.

CHATTERLEY: To your point as well, I think it was less about the individual and more about the nation, and perhaps we've missed that, quite frankly.

How does impeachment play into what we're going to see here? And if we talk about unity, first, I'll circle back to the more immediate crises.

I've mentioned a couple of times this week, the poll that CNN did that said that just 18 percent of Republicans believe that President Biden fairly won

this election. With that backdrop, does just re-galvanizing the economy, tackling COVID: is that enough to bring people on board with this


FORDHAM: Well, not at all. And that's very much what, you know, more contemporary political experience has shown us that people are unable to,

you know, reward a President that they didn't elect with any good results or credit them.

So when the economy got better under President Obama, polarization meant that people who didn't vote for President Obama didn't give him credit for

that. And likewise, with President Trump and the stock market boom, you know, and that's what polarization means.

You know, it's not going to be any easy task in a time of echo chambers and social media and most profoundly mistrust in government and the media that

has really seen a spike since the pandemic.

The Edelman Trust Barometer results released last week showed us a cratering of public trust in both government and the media.

CHATTERLEY: And this is critically important when you're trying to tackle a virus, when you try to say to people, wear masks; when you're saying to

them, look, if a vaccine becomes available, you have to take it.

And what we learned today was, there doesn't seem to be at least at the Federal level, a plan to maximize the speed upon which people can get those

vaccines. How do you see this playing out in terms of economic recovery, a market rally that we're seeing at this moment irrespective of whatever else

is going on in the world? How does it play out for the U.S. economy and the recovery here?


FORDHAM: Markets -- I mean, markets really want one thing and that's for an accelerated vaccine rollout. I mean, they quite like a nice juicy stimulus

as well. So I guess that's two things, but the key variable to getting the U.S. economy back on track and we've seen some global economists suggest

that Biden's Inauguration and the subsequent expectations in in the vaccine implementation could add a point, you know, to global GDP.

So this is really the most important task that he faces. He can't rebuild the recovery until people get vaccinated, and the United States has the

highest levels of vaccine hesitancy skepticism and anti-vaccine sentiment anywhere, and that's directly related to the trust point that we just

talked about.

But that's not permanent, those numbers can move, and building trust messaging with public health, and frankly, modeling that behavior, like the

new administration did by wearing masks all day yesterday, I think will start to bring about a subtle change.

CHATTERLEY: And I love your point about the non-technical point about the colors. All of these things matter when you're trying to rebuild trust.

Tina, is there anything that they're not getting right at this stage? Obviously, it's early days, or do they just have to continue doing what

they're doing? And be honest and talk to the people?

FORDHAM: There will be, you know, a little bit of a warm glow. We definitely can't talk about political honeymoons anymore. I mean, they

haven't exist for a long time and this kind of JFK notion of hundred days and things to accomplish, this administration needs to get down to work

that, you know, the illegitimacy that a significant proportion of Americans regard, Biden's victory is a problem. It's undermined his credibility.

But here's where I think the January 6th events at the Capitol might actually translate into a tiny bit of goodwill. You know, we've been

looking at deepening U.S. polarization for four decades and one violent event, as we know from gun massacres in America isn't enough to move the

needle. But the January 6 events were a shock, and I think that they've shaken a bit of complacency.

What we also know is that what any new administration does in its first days and weeks really sets the tone and that's never been more important

than it is right now for the Biden-Harris administration.

CHATTERLEY: I couldn't agree more. We have about 30 seconds, Tina. Do you think President Trump will be impeached in the Senate? And does it make a


FORDHAM: Well, the fact that Biden didn't mention it as important, I think it means that Biden himself will rise above the fray, but remember that the

hard left of the Democratic Party wants revenge. What will be interesting is to see, as former Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said, whether he

changes his mind?

There is a decent chance of conviction in the Senate. The reason why that might matter for congressional Republicans and for the G.O.P. establishment

is preventing Trump from running again. Right now, I think there's a growing sense that he could splinter the party and keep Republicans out of


CHATTERLEY: Yes, and Biden is like hey, let's just talk about 2021. Quite frankly, we've got enough to deal. Tina Fordham, thank you so much for your

wisdom this morning. The Head of Global Political Strategy at Avonhurst there.

All right, the market opens next. Stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. stocks are up and running this Thursday and we've got a higher open with stocks rising to new records.

Markets clearly hoping that Congress can come together and pass a bold new stimulus, even as Republican moderates expressed sticker shock, a concern

that we shouldn't be spending so much so soon again.

Fresh evidence, however, that it's needed, the U.S. economy continuing to weaken. U.S. jobless claims rising by a further 900,000 last week, close to

recent highs, not helping sentiment.

The shares of United Airlines down over two percent in early trade after warning late Wednesday that first quarter revenues will plunge as much as

70 percent. They are going to double down on cost cutting measures.

The announcement, a fresh evidence of the uncertainty that major U.S. firms still face this year. Biden has also not necessarily been good for Bitcoin.

The cryptocurrency down some 10 percent today, after a weaker Wednesday, too.

Treasury Secretary nominee, Janet Yellen said earlier this week that the White House may increase crypto regulation.

President Biden also warning Wednesday that the worst days of the pandemic may still lie ahead in the United States,


BIDEN: My fellow Americans, in the work ahead of us, we're going to need each other. We need all our strength to persevere through this dark winter.

We're entering what may be the toughest and deadliest period of the virus. We must set aside politics and finally face this pandemic as one nation.


CHATTERLEY: Any President spending his first day in office rolling out a strategy to contain COVID-19, the President has pledged to vaccinate 100

million people in the first hundred days of his administration. But even at that rate, the U.S. population would only be fully vaccinated by the spring

of 2022.

Joining us now, Dr. Ashish Jha, he is the Dean of Brown University School of Public Health. Sir, fantastic to have you on the show. I've been

watching your social media and you've been raising the alarm about some of the challenges at the hospital level in distributing vaccine.

So I guess what you've heard from the administration today in terms of a lack of plan, a Federal plan is perhaps no surprise.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, so thank you so much for having me on. Indeed, this vaccine rollout happened

under the Trump administration with no Federal plan, very little guidance. No resources. And it is no surprise that things have gone quite poorly.

We are starting to see things picking up, things are getting better over the last week or so, last week, 10 days, but there have been a series of

failures as a result of the lack of a Federal plan. And I think we all are hopeful that the Biden team is going to turn this around.

CHATTERLEY: There's a couple of elements here. There's getting the supplies from the vaccine makers, distributing those to the individual states. Then

there's the limits, the phases upon which people can receive those vaccines and you caught my attention, because you were raising the alarm and saying,

we have a situation where because of the restrictions of some of the phases on who can get the vaccines, vials are being opened. You then have a number

of hours to get those vaccines into people's arms and vaccines being thrown away. Just talk us through what you've been hearing, because it's not just

one source.


JHA: Yes, now this is such a travesty and it's just sort of shocking that this is even happening, given how precious these vaccines are. What I've

heard now from a series of colleagues across the country, so this is not a one off or in one location, is that states have put in very difficult

restrictions on hospitals.

In order to make sure that hospitals somehow don't waste the doses on undeserving people, they have really restricted who can get the vaccine.

And so many hospitals have found themselves with doses available that they have to use quickly, and no eligible employees around to give it.

That is it in my mind, they should at that moment, give it to anybody who is around, and certainly, what I've been pushing for is hospitals should be

giving it out to elderly people, high risk people in their communities during those moments.

But states or hospitals have not felt capable of doing so and I've been pushing states to give clear guidance to hospitals that we should never

waste a dose and always make sure that there's somebody around who can get it.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, when you have that window, those hours where that vial has to be used up, everybody is deserving. All limit should be off and you just

get as many people through the door.

What are you hearing, when you're saying to them, look, the states, you have to relax these rules at the last moment simply to not waste vaccine.

What's the message back being?

JHA: So obviously states understand, and I think most state officials don't want to see vaccines wasted. I think some states are feeling stuck, because

they've come up with these very elaborate plans of who gets vaccinated when, what the ordering is. And so they're worried that this becomes a

gateway towards more widespread use of vaccines that are against those guidelines.

My general approach has been, first of all, a vaccine in anybody's arm does everybody some good, so we should do that. Second, we should really

simplify vaccine distribution here. We've gotten most healthcare workers vaccinated. At this point, we should really move towards just vaccinating

older people.

Keep it simple. Get lots of people vaccinated as quickly as possible and really relax a lot of the restrictions that states have put in.

CHATTERLEY: You make a great point, though, that once you relax those restrictions, there is a fear perhaps that it then becomes a bit of a free

for all and people that are at least at risk from COVID-19 suddenly start getting vaccines.

But for those internationally that are watching and can learn lessons from what the United States as one of the first nations trying to do this, is

this an argument for mass vaccination centers, then you can book appointments, if people don't turn up, you've got more people there that

you can simply vaccinate?

JHA: Absolutely, absolutely. One of the many mistakes that the Federal government made under the Trump administration was to see this like any

other vaccine effort, where they said, oh, you know, we vaccinate people for the flu every year. Well, we'll just use that and think about it that


Obviously, this is not the flu and this is not a flu vaccine campaign. I think mass vaccination sites where we prioritize people based on age, which

we know is the biggest risk factor for complications, and make -- and really tightly control the process, but really just keep it simple, based

on age and be very proactive. That's the strategy that's going to work.

That's what we've seen Israel do. That's what we've seen other places do, who've done a really good job.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was going to say, Israel, they are knocking the ball out of the park with this. This is exactly the strategy that they seem to be

using. And Dr. Jha, just quickly because we have seen a great deal of concern about variants of the virus popping up all around the world, and

here, of course, in the United States. What's your view on vaccines being used irrespective of the variant that we're talking about here, even if the

efficacy perhaps of the vaccine is perhaps slightly lower? In many cases, it could still be better than your example, that the flu efficacy?

JHA: Absolutely. I haven't seen any data that says vaccines will not be effective. There's some preliminary data that may be a tiny bit less

effective, but still quite effective against these variants. And, the key issue right now is we've got to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as

possible before these variants become more widespread. And so it really is a race against time.

And I'm not at all worried at this moment that these vaccines will somehow become ineffective against variants. I don't think there's any data for

that and we just need to get people vaccinated.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, as soon as possible. Dr. Jha, fantastic to have you on the show. Thank you so much for talking to us this morning, Dean of the Brown

University School of Public Health. Thank you.

Now as governments try to move from health emergency to recovery, should people who haven't been vaccinated be denied the right to travel? We will

get the World Travel and Tourism Council's view on that, next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the show. Beautiful fireworks over Washington, D.C. but not many planes, with travel down dramatically as a result of the

pandemic, the WTTC, that's the World Travel and Tourism Council says it welcomes the new Biden administration and predicts 100 million jobs will

return this year as the travel sector recovers.

But it is also campaigning against the use of blanket travel bans and critically says there should be no discrimination against people who want

to travel, but haven't yet been vaccinated.

Gloria Guevara is the CEO and President of the WTTC and joins us now. Gloria, fantastic to have you on the show.


CHATTERLEY: I just want to show you what the restrictions are -- welcome -- I just want to show our viewers what the restrictions are for travel to the

United States because they've asked: China, Iran, the Schengen area in Europe, the U.K., Republic of Ireland, Brazil. It's huge. You say blanket

bans aren't the answer.

MANZO: Exactly. And there is no evidence that it proves that the blanket bans are working as we have seen in the nations that they are doing better

than others, it seems that testing is helping the most, testing before departure testing on arrival, rapid test that will give you an answer and

isolate the people infected with our contact tracing app, that has been the most successful case, instead of blanket quarantine, assuming that everyone

is infected.

CHATTERLEY: And the CEOs of the airlines have been very vocal about this, too, the idea that you test before, you test afterwards. The problem is,

the United States has not been that organized with testing and tracing. What are you hearing? And have you heard anything from the incoming -- now,

the current administration about what their plans are?


MANZO: Well, we have heard it from the incoming administration, as they are also experts in travel and tourism, because let's remember that under

former Vice President, now, President Biden, a lot of things happened in travel and tourism, good things for the U.S., and globally, of course.

We have heard that testing is important and we have heard that contact tracing is important. We have heard that their support to the sector is

important. And that's encouraging, because we have been talking about this testing.

But the most important that I would say is this international coordination that unfortunately, if you ask me that was the biggest challenge in 2020.

Countries work in silos. They didn't share best practices. They didn't share a lot of information.

And therefore, it was very complicated for the private sector to try to coordinate the effort and have these mobility back.

CHATTERLEY: At the height of the pandemic, you predicted that as many as 174 million jobs in tourism could be lost. The optimistic to this is you

saying that we could see more than a hundred million jobs come back globally in the tourism sector. What does that require? And are you still

as confident of that prediction, as you see nations like the United States struggle, initially with vaccine rollout?

MANZO: We see a light at the end of the tunnel for a couple of reasons, Julia. The first one is an aggressive vaccination rollout. As you have

seen, the U.S. has changed the rules recently, under the Biden administration. In the U.K., for instance, we also have new rules. UAE sees

that and is following the same path. So these aggressive vaccination is going to help, we need to make sure that we prioritize vulnerable groups,

healthcare workers and we need to vaccinate as many people as possible, while at the same time we need to do testing before departure, we need to

follow the protocols so that we can have our freedom back and our mobility.

For instance, there are some groups like the millennials, the Generation X that they want to travel and they can travel. The reason why people are not

traveling is because of the uncertainty. You don't want to be in a quarantine in a hotel two weeks, you don't want to be impacted and have to

change your plans.

So if you have the vaccination with a testing, contact tracing, and of course, the protocols, we can believe that we can see the recovery. And we

see that in the bookings by the way, starting in April, you will see a trend that we see a lot of reservations. And it seems that we're going to

have a strong summer.

CHATTERLEY: And you're already --

MANZO: And if that's the case, we will be able to require the jobs. Sorry.

CHATTERLEY: And you're already seeing that, are you? You're seeing a pickup in bookings from April onwards.

MANZO: Yes, absolutely. We're seeing that. From April onwards, we're seeing a very strong recovery in bookings and it seems that we're going to have a

very strong summer in the Northern Hemisphere where we are seeing also the rollout of the vaccination and in conjunction with the testing agreements

that we have been calling for months, which is critical, of course, for the mobility because we need to isolate the people infected.

CHATTERLEY: There's going to be a tipping point, though, as the vaccines rollout. And we were speaking to the AirAsia CEO earlier this week and he

said his concern is that, particularly for Asian nations that have handled the virus better, they'll say, don't have a vaccine, you're not coming in.

How concerned are you about that risk, where if you don't have a vaccination, you are simply not going to be welcome in certain countries,

because that's also going to put a limit on travel, too.

MANZO: I'm very concerned and I don't think that that's the right policy, because that's going to be leading in discrimination. Why is that? Because

we have a limited supply.

First of all, we need to make sure that we drive the right behavior. With a limited supply that we have currently, we need to prioritize the vulnerable

groups, the healthcare workers, the elderly, and all those groups that have, as we know, higher risk of COVID.

At the same time, they younger groups like the millennials, the Generation Z, why do they need a vaccine to travel if they can travel with the

protocols and the testing before departure and all of that? Why do you limit the mobility? It is going to be very complicated.

And also, when you weigh like developed countries versus developing countries, unfortunately, some developing countries they don't even have

the vaccine yet. They'll get the vaccine eventually in March and April. But does that mean that they don't have the right to travel? Because you're a

citizen of a developing country? I don't think that that's fair. I don't think that that is right.

We don't believe that that is a fair policy and that wouldn't drive the right behavior. So we need to make sure that we do a good job with the

rollout of the vaccination, prioritizing the vulnerable groups, while at the same time we have the path for testing before departure, contact

tracing, and we follow the protocols.

These protocols have been very effective, I honestly have traveled five times in the last six months without incidents, and everyone can travel as

long as we follow the advice from the health officials, wear the mask, as President Biden has requested for 100 days, we fully agree. We're very

happy with that request and we fully support that.


CHATTERLEY: We shall see. Gloria, great to get your insight. So Gloria Guevara there, the CEO and President of the World Travel and Tourism

Council. Thank you.

MANZO: Thank you, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: All right, coming up on FIRST MOVE. Jack's back. We're talking Chinese billionaire, of course, Jack Ma. But where's he been? Find out



CHATTERLEY: Jack Ma is back, the billionaire co-founder of Chinese e- commerce giant, Alibaba made his first public appearance in months in a video published by Chinese state media.

Selina Wang joins us now with all the details. Selina, great to have you with us. There's been wild speculation about where Jack Ma has been, if

he's been anywhere, quite frankly, we just haven't seen him since that Ant Group IPO was unceremoniously pulled. What do we know?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, great to be with you. And that is right, Jack Ma is finally back, but still so many questions left unanswered


You can see him resurfacing in this video posted by Chinese state media. He is actually speaking to teachers in rural China as part of this virtual

philanthropic event. But in this very short video, it is unclear where in the world he actually is.

Now, Jack Ma hasn't been seen publicly before this video was posted since late October. He was disappearing from public view and that happened just

before regulators derailed what would have been the world's largest ever IPO for his Fintech giant, Ant Group.

Now sources tell me that in this period of several months, Jack Ma was likely keeping a low profile as regulators were cracking down on his

companies. But nonetheless, it did cause much wild speculation about what may have happened to him.

Now, this crackdown on his empire happened after he publicly criticized China's state owned banks for their pawn shop mentality. He criticized

Chinese regulators for stifling innovation. And it is not uncommon in China for the government to severely punish prominent figures who criticize the


For instance, last year, real estate tycoon, Ren Zhiqiang disappeared for several months after allegedly criticizing Xi Jinping for his handling of

the pandemic. Eventually, he was jailed for 18 years on corruption charges.

So Julia, no surprise here that there is a sigh of relief among global investors that Jack Ma has resurfaced though we still don't know where

exactly he is.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's quite fascinating, isn't it? A double whammy here as well. Obviously, he has separated himself from Alibaba, despite being the

founder, but tech scrutiny key here as well as individuals that are not necessarily allowed to make any kind of negative comments about the ruling

party and the government.

We shall see. Selena Wang, thank you so much for that. And I can just see, oh, yes, it's gone now. Your little pop-up behind you. We were cheating

with your screen. The wonders of working from home. Selina, thank you.

All right, and finally this. Amanda Gorman, America's first Youth Poet Laureate stole the Inauguration show when she wowed the crowd with her

poem, "The Hill We Climb."


CHATTERLEY: Here is a little bit of this


AMANDA GORMAN, NATIONAL YOUTH POET LAUREATE: We will rebuild, reconcile and recover in every known nook of our nation in every corner called our

country, our people diverse and beautiful will emerge battered and beautiful.

When day comes, we step out of the shade, aflame and unafraid. The new dawn balloons as we free it. For there is always light if only we're brave

enough to see it, if only we are brave enough to be it.


CHATTERLEY: If we're brave enough to be it.

All right, that's it for the show. You've been watching FIRST MOVE. I'm Julia Chatterley. Stay safe as always, and "Connect the World" with Becky

Anderson is next.