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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Chinese Stocks Fall as Tensions with the U.S. and its Allies Rise; U.S. Regulators Raise New Questions over AstraZeneca's Vaccine Data; Etihad CEO Says Demands will Soar when Lockdowns Ease. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired March 23, 2021 - 09:00   ET



JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here's your need to know.

Sanction swap. Chinese stocks fall as tensions with the U.S. and its allies rise.

Data debates. U.S. regulators raise new questions over AstraZeneca's vaccine data.

And travel turnaround. Etihad CEO says demands will soar when lockdowns ease.

It's Tuesday, let's make a move.

Welcome to FIRST MOVE once again. It's good to be with you as always. It's a day where America is once again in mourning, following another senseless

mass shooting, the seventh mass shooting in fact in seven days.

This time in Colorado, and our hearts and prayers are with all those affected by this tragedy. We will take you there live for the latest later

in the show.

For now, it's also a day where more than 450 million vaccine doses have been administered worldwide, critical, of course, to that vaccine effort.

The AstraZeneca version and U.S. health officials are querying some of the U.S. trial data. Sanjay Gupta will join us live to give his take coming up

on the show.

We'll also be speaking to the head of the African C.D.C. to get their view on the efficacy and safety of this drug, pivotal, of course, to the


And as always, we balance vaccines with the virus, policy with the politics and there's certainly something for everyone today.

Wall Street, as you can see softer, with tech taking back a little of Monday's one percent gains. In fact, we have flipped in the last few

moments, so we are higher by two tenths of one percent, aided I think by bond yields pulling back slightly, too.

Investors are going to be watching for any bond market concern from Fed Chair Jay Powell and Treasury Secretary Yellen later when they testify

before Congress, especially given sources telling CNN that the Biden administration is readying a massive $3 trillion infrastructure and social

spending proposal. More spending equals more borrowing, of course, and that means higher yields, too.

In the meantime, pandemic caution pervades Europe, Germany formally extending lockdown measures until mid-April. The U.K. is set to extend its

overseas travel ban until the end of June as well.

And we've got red arrows in Asia as well, as the U.S. and its allies announced historic, coordinated sanctions on Chinese officials for

allegedly human rights abuses.

China, hitting back with sanctions of its own and that is where we're going to bring and begin the drivers.

Will Ripley joins us live from Hong Kong. Will, great to have you with us. It certainly felt very orchestrated. Just lay out for us who actually took

specific action and who stood back, but supported those measures.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The sanctions are certainly the most tangible aspect of this in terms of real financial damage for the

individuals who've been named top officials tied to Xinjiang, the province in China which is home to the Uighur Muslims and other ethnic minorities

that have been subject to brutal human rights abuses according to the United States and its European allies, its North American allies and its

allies here in Asia Pacific.

And what we saw, in addition to the sanctions was a carefully orchestrated series of statements, condemnation. The West, and instead of standing up to

Beijing one-on-one as they have in the past, trying to take a different approach, trying to stand together as one voice to criticize the internment

camps, the forced sterilization, the restrictions on religious freedoms.

In fact, the United States has called it genocide, saying that China has essentially tried to erase an entire Muslim culture in Xinjiang, even

though China, Julia, as we've pointed out on this program, points to things like the GDP and the life expectancy going up and says that human rights in

Xinjiang are great, and they think that the West is meddling in its internal affairs. That's been China's consistent line.

The question now, can they really ignore this? Can they ignore this kind of concerted and coordinated effort?

What we're seeing, at least at this early stage, Julia, is not a willingness on the part of Beijing to open up a dialogue, but a tit-for-tat

response, so a slew of sanctions against European Union officials and entities and, you know, more basic denials of any human rights issue in

Xinjiang and basically telling the Western world that it's none of their business anyway.

CHATTERLEY: I mean, this is the question, isn't it? And I think you raised the perfect point. This feels more symbolic. Obviously, these nations have

taken action with the sanctions so at least it's tangible, but there will be people looking at this saying, look, the United States, as you pointed

out, is calling this genocide. Do these measures go far enough?


RIPLEY: Well, if you compare to what was happening during the years of the Trump administration, where there was this, the State Department was

condemning what was happening in Xinjiang as President Trump was publicly praising Chinese President Xi Jinping, who Chinese internal documents show

was the driving force behind the treatment of the Uighur Muslims and ethnic minorities in Xinjiang.

And so, obviously, all of these countries are doing a delicate dance because China is probably the number one trading partner with most of them,

either China or the United States here, but they are taking a more principled stand and standing up to Beijing in a way that we haven't truly

seen before.

Will it be enough? Well, we've seen the early response from Beijing, which seems to indicate that at least on their side of the line here, it's still

going to be business as usual, at least for now.

But can they lose this much face? Can they alienate Western countries to this extent? Or will there be more tangible consequences moving forward?

Well, these countries, is this just a first step?

CHATTERLEY: It's the beginning of a more coordinated stance from the international community directed towards China, and I think this is the

key, Will, to your point. Thank you so much for your context on that story. Will Ripley there.

To AstraZeneca now, standing by the results of its U.S. clinical trial after a U.S. Review Board warned that some of the information may be

outdated. The company says it plans to clarify with the Board immediately.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now. Sanjay, great to have you on the show and to get your context. What do you make of this first? What was it? Do you think

that was concerning the U.S. officials? And how normal is it for this to play out in public?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, I mean, the second question first, that's the unusual part that this isn't playing out

in public like this. I mean, it's not that unusual for these independent monitoring boards to go back to the pharmaceutical company and say, hey,

you know, your data is not quite making sense. Can you please review it? Do another analysis -- whatever.

But the fact that the National Institutes of Health here in the United States put this out on their website, I thought was a more significant

statement saying, hey, we have a significant problem with AstraZeneca's data so far.

It doesn't mean that there necessarily will be a long term problem. It basically means that the data that they've put forth, as you said, was

either incomplete or outdated.

I want to explain that, but listen to what Dr. Fauci how he sort of described this.


DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It really is unfortunate that this happened, you know, this is

really what you call an unforced error. Because the fact is, this is very likely a very good vaccine. And this kind of thing does as you say, do

nothing, but really cast some doubt about the vaccines and maybe contributed to the hesitancy, it was not necessary.

If you look at it, the data really are quite good. But when they put it into the press release, it wasn't completely accurate.


GUPTA: So one thing I will sort of point out, Julia, just to give you an idea of the numbers here is that when we looked at the Pfizer vaccine, for

example, how did they determine that something is 95 percent effective? Well, in that case, out of all the people in the trial, 162 people became

sick in the placebo group during the trial, and eight people became sick in the vaccinated trial. So that gives you an idea of just the how different

the numbers were, that's the 95 percent.

Moderna, smaller numbers, but a similar sort of ratio. Of all the people who got sick, 90 of them were in the placebo group, five were in the

vaccine group. What we've heard for the U.S. data from AstraZeneca, thus far is that there were five people who got sick, and they were all in the

placebo group. It's a very small number.

This may be part of the incomplete, outdated data that they're talking about here, Julia. We don't know. But AstraZeneca has promised to resolve

this within the next 48 hours.

CHATTERLEY: I mean, it's tough to back out their efficacy ratio from those numbers when you're talking about five people getting sick to zero. So I

guess this is what is causing some of the confusion as well.

I mean, Sanjay, this vaccine from AstraZeneca. It's not important in the United States, because they've got Pfizer, they've got Moderna, J&J is

coming as well. But for emerging markets, for the continent of Africa, for example, this is a pivotal, vital drug and this kind of, as Dr. Fauci

called it, "unforced errors" are a problem where confidence is concerned.

GUPTA: Yes, I totally agree. You know, Julia, it would be naive to suggest that even if, you know, this whole situation that we're talking about here

gets resolved, there hasn't been some taint on the overall confidence in this vaccine and that's unfortunate because there's a lot of vaccine

hesitancy around the world.

When we look at COVAX, which is, you know, designed to really provide access to vaccines for low and middle income countries, AstraZeneca is a

big part of that. I think close to 20 percent of COVAX's vaccines were supposed to come from AstraZeneca.


GUPTA: Again, I don't want to suggest that there will be a longer term problem here, but what people have heard about the vaccine trial from

AstraZeneca, it was paused in the United States and in the U.K. for some time. There was this question about clotting, which subsequently was found

to have no association with the vaccine.

And now this question about data. That's the sort of information that people are hearing here in the United States and around the world. So they

need to resolve this. And they need to be definitive about this.

As you point out, five people becoming ill in the placebo group versus none in the vaccine group, I don't think you need to be a Statistics major to

sort of figure out that doesn't seem to be statistically significant.

How do you get to the point where you can actually give people that confidence? I think they can possibly, as Dr. Fauci said, he still believes

this is a good vaccine. But this is critically important for the world.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's critically important. Confidence is critically important.

Sanjay, you mentioned the blood clotting concerns that have now had a line drawn beneath them. Can I just get your sense, when we're vaccinating this

many people, when you see occurrences of something like blood clots, and obviously AstraZeneca came out and said, look, the occurrences were

actually less than would ordinarily happen in a population vaccine aside.

How confident are we just to set that issue specifically aside? Can we get your wisdom on that, too, please?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, you know, I think that this is one of those situations where in the midst of a significant vaccine rollout, everyone's antenna is

really raised to try and find any kind of potential side effect.

And, you know, frankly, I think that may be a good thing. I mean, we want to find any kind of safety concerns early on.

But as a result of that, you end up finding things that oftentimes have no relationship to the vaccine itself.

Within a population of people, a large population, there are sorts of different medical problems that just emerge, even if we weren't in the

middle of a pandemic, even if there wasn't a vaccine rollout, and one of them is spontaneous clotting problems.

So they are sort of what they call a baseline rate of some of these things, and just as you correctly pointed out, the baseline rate for clotting

problems was either close to or even a little bit lower among the vaccinated group than the background population. It's to say that these

clotting problems would have been happening otherwise.

Now, that's the final sort of, you know, assessment of the European Medicines Association, and the World Health Organization. So I think that

that's really a red herring.

But you know, Julia, the thing is, that's, you know, people hear, okay, well, I've got Pfizer. I've got Moderna. There's J&J. AstraZeneca sounds

like there's been too much -- too many sort of questionable things that I've heard about it. Not that there have merit. But I think that when we

look into the psyche of how people make decisions, it definitely does play a role.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it does. Sanjay, get your perspective there and your wisdom on this. Thank you for your time, as always.

GUPTA: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Sanjay Gupta there.

All right, let me bring you up to speed with some of the other stories making headlines around the world.

America, as I mentioned, in mourning once again after another mass shooting. Ten people lost their lives after a gunman opened fire inside a

Colorado grocery store on Monday.

The victims include a police officer who had seven children. This is America's seventh mass shooting in just the past week.

A suspect is in custody, but still no word on a motive as CNN's Dan Simon reports.


DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ten people are dead after a gunman opened fire inside this Boulder, Colorado supermarket Monday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He went down there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my god. Guys, we've got people down inside King Soopers.

Look, there's --


SIMON (voice over): Witnesses recall hearing several loud bags before customers frantically ran for the exits.

RYAN BOROWSKI, COLORADO SUPERMARKET SHOOTING WITNESS: This feels like the safest spot in America, and I just nearly got killed for getting a soda,

you know, and a bag of chips.

SIMON (voice over): Police quickly arrived at the scene. The shooter was still inside the store firing a rifle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 136, we have multiple shots being fired at us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Start pushing slow, but be advised, we do not know where he is. He's armed with a rifle, our officers shot back and returned


NEVEN SLOAN, SUPERMARKET SHOOTING WITNESS: It's like bang-bang-bang-bang- bang. I immediately sprinted over to her and said hey, we've got to get out of here, and like pushed open that emergency door and I told her to run.

SIMON (voice over): Law enforcement immediately worked to secure the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Boulder Police Department. The entire building is surrounded. I need you to surrender now.

SIMON (voice over): Eventually ramming into the building and forcing their way in.

STEEN MCHUGH, SON-IN-LAW IN SUPERMARKET DURING SHOOTING: My son in law walked into the pharmacy for him to get a COVID-19 shot and the shooter

came in shot the woman in front of them. They hid -- ran upstairs. They are hiding in a coat closet for the last hour.

Half a dozen cops came in through the roof.


MCHUGH: Got them and then told them, you know, stay quiet and they are okay.

This is not okay with me and this is putting in a big pitch for gun control. And this is, you know, when it's your family --

SIMON (voice over): Fifty-one-year-old Boulder Police Officer Eric Talley was among the victims.

CHIEF MARIS HEROLD, BOULDER, COLORADO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Officer Talley responded to the scene, he was the first on the scene and he was fatally


SIMON (voice over): The suspect was wounded and is currently in police custody. The District Attorney vow justice will be served for the nine

victims and Officer Talley.

MICHAEL DOUGHERTY, BOULDER COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: His life was cut far too short, as he responded to the shooting that was taking place at King

Soopers. These were people going about their day doing their food shopping and their lives were cut abruptly and tragically short by the shooter who

is now in custody.

I promise the victims and the people of the State of Colorado that we will secure justice and do everything we must do to get justice in this case.


CHATTERLEY: And Dan Simon joins us now live from Boulder Colorado.

Dan, good to have you with us. What are people saying to you, Dan and what have they said to since the tragic events because the additional

heartbreaking tragedy of this is that people in Colorado, no stranger to this kind of senseless devastating tragedy.

SIMON: Well, hi, Julia. There is so much shock and sadness and I think people are still coming to grips with what took place yesterday. You know,

there have been several mass shootings over the years in Colorado.

You have Columbine, Aurora, and now you have Boulder and people are just processing that there's been another mass shooting again in the State of


Now, I can tell you that police just removed the crime scene tape behind me. So you are seeing traffic here once again. But all of this area where

this grocery store is still largely roped off.

Now a lot of questions of course today, Julia, mainly what caused the shooter to go inside that grocery store and start shooting at people

seemingly at random at this point. Police have not disclosed the name of the suspect and they haven't talked about any operating theories as to why

he did what he did.

We do know that a news conference is scheduled later this morning here in Boulder, where we hope to learn more information about the suspect and the

victims -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, our hearts with everybody there. Dan, thank you for joining us. Dan Simon in Colorado there.

All right, voting is underway in Israel's fourth election in just two years. There are 120 seats up for grabs with the magic number being 61.

Early polling puts Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on top, but there's no guarantee he'll be able to form a majority government.

All right, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, the head of Africa's C.D.C. discusses the continents vaccine rollout and AstraZeneca's pivotal role.

Stay with us. That's coming up.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York where U.S. stocks set for a mixed open ahead of today's congressional testimony -- get

the word out -- by Fed Chair Jay Powell and Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on the future of pandemic aid.

Caution too as Europe extends emergency health measures that could further weigh on economies as levels of COVID infections there remain highly


Companies in the news today include Microsoft. It is trading relatively unchanged premarket amid reports that it's set to make a $10 billion bid

for privately held Discord, an online chat platform popular with gamers; a move that could raise antitrust concerns given Microsoft's Xbox ubiquity.

All right, let's move on, thousands more evacuations could soon be ordered in Australia's New South Wales which has faced days of historic life

threatening rain and flooding.

The State's Premier calls the situation catastrophic, and the dangerous weather system is not done yet. CNN's Lynda Kinkade reports.


LYNDA KINKADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Locals trying to rescue a horse and save themselves as floodwaters rise in southeast Australia.

Weather conditions are being described as historic as torrential rain and widespread flooding batter the region.

More than 18,000 people have been evacuated from their homes in New South Wales. Rescue crews search for those stuck amid the rising water. Residents

say they've never seen anything this bad.

LARRY POWERS, RESCUED FROM FLOODWATERS: The river -- I've never seen rubbish -- like you get a lot of rubbish. It was gone like -- being on the

river, go -- going as fast as what ski boats go and some of the race boats. It was -- I've never seen it. And as soon as it broke the banks, it was

like a torrent.

KINKADE (voice over): About 20 dogs rescued from floodwaters in Sydney after the owners had to leave them behind while they escaped to safety.

It's being called a once in a 100-year flooding event. CNN weather experts say it's part of a La Nina pattern. Satellite images show the weather that

unleashed heavy rain Monday, parts of New South Wales receiving about half a year's worth of rain in just 96 hours, causing several dams to either

reach capacity or come very close to it.

Australia's government declared a natural disaster for the state.

JUSTIN ROBINSON, BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY, NATIONAL FLOOD SERVICES MANAGER: I've been a flood forecasts in the Bureau for 20 years. And this is

probably the worst flooding that I've experienced and I've had to forecast.

KINKADE (voice over): Unfortunately, the horse didn't make it. Many livestock have either died or left stranded as the floods have cut off

owners from their animals.

Just a year ago, Australia was in the midst of a bushfire disaster. Now record breaking flood emergency devastates parts of the country and some

areas could see a meter of rainfall when it's all over.

Lynda Kinkade, CNN.


CHATTERLEY: AstraZeneca's vaccine facing fresh challenges in the United States as we've discussed this morning, even as it works to undo damage

done by the stop-start rollout in Europe.

Bad news for AstraZeneca, worrying news for Africa. The continent is struggling to secure vaccines and is reliant on the COVAX scheme, 87

percent of which is supplied by AstraZeneca.

In the wake of suspensions in Europe, the Africa Centres for Disease Control and Prevention set up a taskforce to review its safety.

Joining us now is John Nkengasong. He is Director of the Africa Centres for Disease Control and Prevention.

John, fantastic to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us. Just give us your sense.


CHATTERLEY: Just give us your sense, please, of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

NKENGASONG: So first of all, the AstraZeneca vaccine is very safe. I think that it has been proven over and over. And second is that at least 30

countries on the continent have started using the vaccine.

We, at Africa's Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, as you indicated met last week. We reviewed all the evidence and data and issued a

statement that clearly states that the continent should continue to use their vaccine, especially in areas that are not challenged yet with a

variant that is the so-called South African variant.


NKENGASONG: So as we speak, we, ourselves have started distributing through the African Vaccine Acquisition task team several doses of vaccines

across several countries in Africa.

CHATTERLEY: And just to be clear, this taskforce that reviewed all the data for AstraZeneca's vaccine includes experts, not only from Africa, but

from around the world. And you do have a reporting and evaluation process that's ongoing, just in case there are adverse effects of people taking

this vaccine. So you're constantly monitoring.

NKENGASONG: We're constantly monitoring that. Let me just say also that the taskforce included last week about 260 people across the continent, as

well as from Europe, including the European Medicines Agency, that we review systematically, every evidence that can -- could possibly point to

that direction of any adverse effects on the AstraZeneca vaccine, and we concluded that the vaccine was very safe.

Let me put it this way, COVID has killed about 2.6 million people in the world and no vaccine, and I repeat, no vaccine has killed anybody. So I

think we should continue to rely on the public health agencies like the World Health Organization, Africa C.D.C. for recommendation on guidance on

the appropriate use of these vaccines.

CHATTERLEY: So the message from the African C.D.C. is, it is safe, and we're carrying on distributing it and vaccinating people as fast as we can.

NKENGASONG: Absolutely. We are -- the AstraZeneca vaccine represents the backbone for now for our vaccination efforts on the continent and we are

monitoring that closely as we do for all vaccines.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccines will be coming down the pipeline. But as we speak, we have a system in place that is tracking everyone who is receiving

the vaccine in the spirit of surveillance that is monitoring for people that have received the vaccines and documenting any potential side effects.

CHATTERLEY: And the continent has a huge job. You want to achieve vaccinating 60 percent of the continent over the next two years. That

involves vaccinating 750 million people, 20 percent of your vaccines, as I mentioned in the introduction coming from COVAX.

How and what are you doing about acquiring the remaining vaccines that are needed?

NKENGASONG: So thank you for that very important question. When we started earlier on last year, we presented a strategy to the Bureau of the Head of

States chaired at that time by President Cyril Ramaphosa of the African Union. And we agreed that at least 60 percent of the continent should be

vaccinated in order to create what we call a community immunity or herd immunity.

The United States is aiming at more than that, about 80 percent. Europe is aiming at a little bit 80 percent or 70 percent.

China plans to vaccinate about 80 percent of its population by September. So I think, the 60 percent, or at least 60 percent threshold is very

reasonable and it is a threshold that we believe should enable us to get rid of COVID if we really want to win the battle against this pandemic.

Now, COVAX has assured us that they will supply us with at least 20 percent of the vaccines. That percentage might increase to 30 percent, so now we

have a short gap of about 30 percent and that is where we created the African vaccine task team which is striving to complete that gap.

And we are calling for a partnership with friends of Africa to rally around this very important strategic direction for the continent given to us by

our Head of States to achieve that 60 percent threshold, which we believe that must be achieved in order to win the battle against COVID-19.

CHATTERLEY: But without more help, it's going to take far longer than two years. That's the reality.

NKENGASONG: That's the reality. But if we truly, from the perspective of health security, economic security of the continent, we must strive to

vaccinate at least 60 percent of our people by 2022. That is absolutely an order.

Otherwise, we risk moving into an endemic situation where this virus will just seat itself into the community and we will begin to deal with it as we

are currently tackling HIV-AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria.

It is in no one's interest, as for COVID-19 to become endemic in Africa because a threat in Africa would definitely, definitely be a threat all

over the world, a continent of 1.2 billion people, 55 member states cannot afford to see COVID-19 seat and insert into the continent.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, it risks variants popping up further, and as you point out, providing support here to Africa helps support the rest of the world,

too, and we all have to stand together.

John, fantastic to have you with us. Come back soon, please and keep us updated of progress.

The Director of the Africa Centres for Disease Control and Prevention there. Thank you once again.

All right, the market opens next. Stay with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE and we're seeing a pretty cautious start to the trading day. Rate sensitive tech stops about turning once

again, we are lower by two-tenths of one percent.

All of this, as global investors mark an important anniversary, one year ago today, global stocks bottomed out from the deep pandemic plunge

beginning the massive run up that has continued pretty much uninterrupted since then.

A lot of thanks, of course to the Federal Reserve and its crucial do whatever it takes approach to economic support. Fed Chair Jay Powell talks

about the future of the pandemic aid before Congress later today. And of course Congress is spending, too. The job so far, not yet done though.

Brent and U.S. crude are sharply lower on concerns that stubbornly high COVID caseload in many parts of the globe will continue to weigh on growth.

We are off by just over four percent as you can see.

Now, despite the vaccine rollouts, hopes of overseas travel from continental Europe this summer seem more certain than ever in the U.K. A

year to the day since its first national lockdown, it's illegal to take a foreign holiday. Tough new laws mean rule breakers face a $7,000.00 fine.

Germany meanwhile is going into hard lockdown over Easter as infections there soar, and France which is in the throes of a third wave brought in

new lockdown measures in 16 areas as of last Friday.

All this spells more pain for holiday companies and airlines. We'll hear from Virgin Voyages later in the show.

But first, John Defterios has been talking to Etihad and John joins us now.

John, how optimistic are they about a resurgence in travel at least once these lockdowns come to an end?


JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, it's not going to happen overnight, Julia, but a pretty clear idea of where Etihad is

going. You know, everybody is marking an anniversary good or bad right now. This is a sector, as you know, that lost nearly $120 billion last year.

And March 23, 2020 was when they had to shut down the fleet per Etihad. And from that point forward, the CEO, Tony Douglas told me, they wanted to set

a standard for health protocols, which I think they have done here.

There's a severe lockdown still in Abu Dhabi because of the quarantines that they have in place, but they're looking forward to the future. And in

fact, he says the next major hurdle is getting a global travel pass here, something that I.A.T.A is working on, but it has to include vaccines. And

when can it get that rolled out? Let's take a listen to what his strategy is.


TONY DOUGLAS, CEO, ETIHAD: We're assuming that it will be around for the foreseeable future, and we're assuming that the traveling public will need

that level of confidence to the standards of how the cabins are presented, the air filtration, the elimination of touch points, the way in which

Etihad was the only airline and is still is in the world, since last August, whereby you need to be 100 percent PCR tested at both points of

origin and point of arrival.

DEFTERIOS: This is a country that has very high vaccination rates, some of the highest in the world as a matter of fact. What do you do of striking

the balance for those who don't have access to vaccines, even into 2022, and you want them to travel to avoid inequality?

DOUGLAS: You know, a year ago, let's face it, most of us weren't talking about PCR tests. A year ago, we certainly weren't talking much about

vaccines. And now, it's pretty much the norm as these things roll out.

There will always be countries that will be able to adapt and adopt more quickly and the challenge will be as you rightly say, to make sure that

inequality doesn't become a handicap in part in getting the world back to normal.

DEFTERIOS: Would one have to have a vaccine or be vaccinated to travel though? Is that the bottom line? Or is it the negative PCR that can still


DOUGLAS: For us, we believe that vaccine and/or an appropriate test will definitely be part of the future. And there's lots of ways now where people

are looking at how that becomes certified with vaccine certificates, wellness passports.

DEFTERIOS: It's interesting, because I.A.T.A has this travel pass it is developing, the European Union, the green certificate, how long will it

take to have a common global standard? Six months? Perhaps longer? Because people are eager to get back in the skies.

DOUGLAS: It's our belief that the solution isn't perhaps quite as complicated as one would imagine. But how it gets globally adopted and

adapted too is where the time consuming challenge will be.

For sure, it will start in the coming months, it will probably take upwards of a year to roll out, but I do believe it will become part of the new


The trick to this now is for global leaders and the political community to align on how this can be rolled out from a solution point of view,

particularly vaccines all around the world.

DEFTERIOS: Is there a pent up demand right now? What have you seen in terms of bookings for the summer months? Are people itching to go? Or where

does it tie into the fact they need more security and that's where your wellness program comes into play for Etihad?

DOUGLAS: It's going to go off like a fire hydrant. Hold that thought in your mind. There is so much pent up demand.

Every time a country comes on a green list, even if it's only for a relatively limited period of time, our booking curve goes through the roof.


CHATTERLEY: A fire hydrant, John, now there is some optimism.

DEFTERIOS: Yes, I thought you'd like that.

CHATTERLEY: I mean, and also the requirement for sort of political alignment on travel. Good luck with that.

But what is he talking about? Give us a timescale? Did he give it to you on a return to the kind of levels of travel that we were seeing pre-pandemic?

DEFTERIOS: Yes, you know, it's interesting. Tony talked about a sliding timescale, Julia, they were hoping for the start of 2023. He said

realistically, it's mid-2023, depending on those decisions by the government leaders he was making reference to which I thought was rather


By the way, Etihad and we see the same sort of tactic here in Dubai. Etihad and Abu Dhabi has pushed forward this Hope Consortium, which is the

complete supply chain for vaccines in this wider region, because this is a market of two billion consumers ready to go to South Asia and to Africa,

particularly to the south, Tony Douglas was saying.

So if they can get this out and get it pushed in to the marketplace, he said, it'll be good for the travel sector, which is still expected to lose

$40 billion this year. So very frank response, what it takes to get this travel pass going, making sure you deal with inequality and that PCRs still

work. But to get the political backing for this industry that needs that help.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, global coordination, essential. John Defterios, thank you so much for that great interview.

All right, coming up after the break, Virgin Voyages is hoping it's a case of second time lucky after last year's big launch were scrubbed. Well,

you're welcome back on board, if you've packed a vaccine certificate. Stay with us. That's next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. You may remember last year we heard from Virgin Voyages who were hoping to launch adult-only cruises

around the Med in the Caribbean. Well, it was postponed of course, due to the pandemic, but after a series of coronavirus outbreaks on ships around

the world, Virgin says, it is confident adequate safety protocols are now in place for sailings to start in July.

All passengers and crew need to be vaccinated and tested ahead of travel. New air purification systems have been installed and contact is minimized

with crew members.

Tom McAlpin is President and CEO of Virgin Voyages and he joins us now. Tom, great to have you with us. No messing around on these voyages. If

you've been vaccinated, you're welcome to join. If you haven't, you aren't.

TOM MCALPIN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, VIRGIN VOYAGES: That's right. You know, we spent the last year relaunching a new brand and we wanted to launch it in a

safe environment. So we pushed the pause button, but we spent the last year really studying the virus and developing protocols that we think is the

safest way to possibly travel.

You mentioned some of them. It's about the cleaning protocols. It's about contactless technology we have and we've invested in air purification

systems atmosphere, which uses bipolar ionization to clean and kill 100 percent of the bacteria and viruses that are out there.

Of course, we'll be testing and having testing protocols. We have the ability to test before, during and after the voyage and I think the game

changer is requiring vaccines for all of our sailors and for all of our crew.

The combination of those things really, if you think about it is a highly controlled environment and it creates a very, very safe way to travel,

perhaps the safest way to travel.


CHATTERLEY: So literally, no one on board that ship will be without a vaccine.

MCALPIN: That's right. That is our goal. Absolutely.

CHATTERLEY: And how often will testing take place?

MCALPIN: Well, we're working through those final protocols. We're working with C.D.C. Frankly, we think that C.D.C. should lift the conditional sail

order. We're waiting for them to lift that that order, so that we can begin operations in July.

And again, developing all of these protocols creates this very, very safe where if I think about it, everybody is tested before you get on board.

Well, we may test during and we will probably test after, requiring a vaccine, and then all of the procedures on board the ship creates a really

safe place.

And frankly, that's what consumers want. They want to feel safe about traveling. And, you know, we feel that we're confident in doing that,

because we've developed a product for the adult market, and you heard from the President that all the adults will be able to have a vaccine readily

available to all those who desire by May.

So we're hoping to get back to the beginning of the new normal in July.

CHATTERLEY: I may have been looking at what's available, actually and I see that the birthday cruise includes visits to Key West and then the

Bahamas. Again, you're going to be interacting, if you're a passenger with people that haven't been vaccinated, if you step off board the ship. What's

the protocol around that?

And what happens on the off chance that you catch somebody who then has COVID? What happens with the rest of the passengers with quarantine? How

are you going to handle that?

MCALPIN: Yes, so we're working with all of our shore providers to make sure that they have safety protocols in place that we could create this

tight bubble?

You know, we look at protecting our guests on board in the unlikely event that there was a case. You know, we have two doctors, three nurses. We have

all the equipment on to be able to handle something like that.

But it's kind of like a lifeboat trail, right? You prepare, you go through a lifeboat, you have the likelihood of ever meeting that is pretty remote.

So we feel pretty confident about the processes and the policies that we put in place.

CHATTERLEY: What demand have you seen, Tom?

MCALPIN: Well, you know what, we've seen March has been spectacular bookings, our strongest month so far. I think there's incredible pent up

demand for this industry.

Frankly, Americans love to cruise. It enjoys very high satisfaction rates, incredible satisfaction for money. And everybody I spoke to that's gotten

the vaccine can't wait to travel. It's the number one thing that people missed in the last year, they miss going on --

CHATTERLEY: Sorry, I was just going to ask you, whether you're having to discount tickets. Is this a cheaper holiday than it was pre-pandemic?

MCALPIN: Yes, I think, of course, you're going to see some good prices, but we're about creating a whole new brand, so I'm less worried about the

pricing right now.

We want people to get out there and enjoy our experience. We've created this adult experience because parents need it. Parents have had a really

tough year.'

They've been parent, they've been guardian, they've been school teacher, and everything in between. We think parents need a vacation.

And we have the fantastic way to do that. It's a -- we've got the most glamorous ships in the industry inspired by super yacht design. We've got

dining, restaurants that -- you have six different restaurants you go to, 20 different eateries. These are restaurants that you want to go to on land

and, you know, entertainment that is much more immersive, a theater that changes configuration three times during the voyage, and that the creme de

la creme is the Virgin Voyage's Beach Club at Bimini and this is -- I call it the sexiest beach club ever designed. It is two fantastic pools

overlooking a plethora of palm trees, the Atlantic Ocean, programming that only Virgin can provide.

So we're pretty excited and we tell people to come set sail the Virgin way.

CHATTERLEY: I know it feels like a different world, quite frankly, the idea of going back on holidays and doing normal things. What about

verification of vaccine recipients -- it is one of the elements.

MCALPIN: Yes, all of our sailors are required to produce some type of certification. You know, if you get your vaccine, I've got mine. I've got a

C.D.C. certification card, which tells you the type of vaccine you had and the dates you've had it. So that will be required for all of our sailors

before they get on board the ship.

CHATTERLEY: And you mentioned it and I'll mention it very quickly, the C.D.C. still recommending against voyages. So all of this tied to the

C.D.C. relaxing its guidelines, of course.

MCALPIN: Yes, we think, you know, it's a bit unfair if you look at the rest of the industry. We're jealous of the industries. I mean, you've seen

all the other industries opening up: airlines, hotels, restaurants, theme parks, casinos are all opened up for business, but yet we're not.

So we are encouraging the C.D.C. to lift that sail order so that we can begin operations in July and that's what the American people want.

CHATTERLEY: Let's see. Tom, great to have you with us. Thank you, Tom McAlpin there, the President and CEO of Virgin Voyages.

All right coming up, Goldman Sachs' boss responding to complaints from his junior analysts who say enough is enough. That story next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Saturdays off. That's one of the promises Goldman Sachs' CEO is making in response to junior bankers

complaints that went viral.

A group of analysts detailed what they called inhumane conditions in a survey including 95-hour working weeks.

Clare Sebastian joins us now with more. Clare, I read this and it also suggests they're going to hire more analysts, inhumane working conditions,

95-hour work weeks and workplace abuse, not the best PR advert for hiring new people.

Talk us through what more Goldie has had to say.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so we've had a response now to this which came out last week, Julia, from Goldman Sachs CEO, David

Solomon. He came out in a voice memo to all staff over the weekend, weekend that he says, of course now promising to protect for junior staff.

This is what he says he's going to do. He is going to step up enforcement of what's called the kind of free Saturday so that junior staff are not

expected to work between 9:00 p.m. on Friday and 9:00 a.m. on Sunday.

They also, as you know, are going to try and hire more junior bankers. They are going to try and move people into the busier areas of the bank because

of course, this has been a hugely busy time for Goldman. The stock is up some 150 percent over the past year.

They're seeing record volumes in investment banking that they just posted their best revenue in trading in a decade, so a hugely busy time for the


But I want to read you one quote from the transcript of this voice memo from David Solomon, because I think it's safe to say this isn't going to

change absolutely everything. He's not suddenly promising that this is going to be an easy ride for junior bankers. He says, "Just remember, if we

all go an extra mile for our clients, even when we feel that we're reaching our limit, it can really make a difference in our performance."

So he is still trying to motivate his staff, to keep pushing, to keep working those long hours. But there are concessions now for lifestyle after

this survey from these analysts.

CHATTERLEY: I know. It's quite funny. I mean, there were 13 people in this survey, and I've just Googled, they've got 40,500 employees and the

exponential curve of conditions and pay quite frankly, makes a lot of people I know and I've known over the years say you suck it up for those

years and you get on with it.

But incentivizing people to join. They're not the only ones that are offering perks of potentially joining, Clare, talk us through Jefferies, as

one specific example of giving gifts to employees.

SEBASTIAN: Yes, there seems to be a bit of momentum now on Wall Street, Julia. I think this is a moment that the pandemic has obviously been very

hard on everyone working from home, something David Solomon from Goldman Sachs once referred to as an aberration, has sort of compounded matters.

Jefferies, a Wall Street firm has just said that they are offering employees one of several free gifts, one of which is a Peloton bike. The

company saying, they will try to make sure that they have time to use it as well. So that is one way of incentivizing people.


SEBASTIAN: And we have also had from Citigroup, CEO Jane Fraser saying that she is introducing something called Zoom-free Fridays.

We know that Zoom fatigue has been a big problem for people. She's also introducing a company-wide holiday on May 28, so people can reset. She is

trying to set an example by taking some vacation herself and trying to stop people from scheduling calls outside normal working hours.

So, I think there will be some skepticism among Wall Street veterans, you as someone who's worked on Wall Street may feel this, too, that this is

something we've seen before, a kind of reset in the culture. But certainly, this is a moment where it's happening.

CHATTERLEY: I no longer work there. There is a reason.

Clare, thank you so much for bringing us up to speed with that and great to have a Peloton, you just need that Saturday off of course to actually use


Yes. Clare Sebastian, thank you so much for that.

All right, that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and my Instagram pages. Search for


In the meantime, and as always, stay safe.

"Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is next and I'll see you tomorrow.