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First Move with Julia Chatterley

The U.S. Ready to Waive Vaccine Rights, but will Everyone Agree; U.K. and France Arguing Over Fishing Rights; Relations Between China and Australia Worsen. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired May 06, 2021 - 09:00   ET



JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE," and here is your need to know.

Patent pause. The U.S. ready to waive vaccine rights, but will everyone agree?

Boating bust-up. The U.K. and France arguing over fishing rights.

And dialogue ditched. And relations between China and Australia worsen.

It's Thursday. Let's make a move.

A warm welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Great to have you with us this Thursday as we focus once again on India's worsening health emergency.

There are growing calls for a sweeping national lockdown. The government's chief scientific adviser has warned that a third COVID wave may now be

inevitable, and the nation has seen another day of record case numbers.

In the face of this is perhaps no surprise that nations like India and South Africa have been pushing for waivers on intellectual property

protection for vaccines, simply trying to speed up the distribution.

The biggest surprise perhaps is that the U.S. government has said it supports that push. Watch out, Big Pharma. Vaccine Developers Moderna and

BioNTech falling on that news yesterday and are down some 10 percent as you can see there premarket.

As we speak, the industry says and believes a waiver would suppress research development and innovation and do little actually to help the near

term availability of doses, too. We will be discussing very shortly on the show.

For now, as you can imagine, that weakness leading the NASDAQ lower for a fourth day in a row. Futures are relatively unchanged as you can see at

this moment and a little bit higher there for the Dow.

Plenty to watch across Asia, and in the Asia session once again. Japanese stocks making gains despite calls in Tokyo for an extension of the state

emergency there less than three months out of course, from the Olympic Games.

China also back from holiday, too, shares there are under pressure, too, amid growing international tensions. More on that as well coming up in the


But for now, we begin with an update on India and a catastrophic surge in cases. More than 412,000 new infections; nearly 4,000 deaths in just one

day, and as the vicious second wave sweeps across the country, a top government adviser says a third wave is inevitable.

Vedika Sud joins us live from New Delhi. Vedika, we continue to pray that we start to see these cases and the loss of life come down, but it is

simply not happening yet.

VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: It is not, Julia. Just imagine yourself in a war, you're losing your soldiers, you're extremely fatigued and everything

all around looks dark to you. That's what India is going through right now, and then someone comes across, perhaps the commander of the Army and he

says, you know what? There's another war to be fought and we're going to go ahead and fight that war as well.

That's what the top adviser has told India as of Wednesday, that there will be a third wave that will hit India, and we need to be prepared. It is

inevitable, it will hit.

We're already struggling right now. Hospitals still need oxygen supply. People still need hospital beds, and we're now told that this is going to

be a long battle.

In fact, according to a study at the India Institute of Science here in India, India's numbers could more than double by June 11th is what they are

saying as far as the case load is concerned, and even the death toll could be almost two times of what it is today.

So these numbers are already staggering like you mentioned at the top of the show, and now we're being told it is going to be a long haul.

Along with that in the Health Ministry press briefing yesterday, another official did mention that there could be a link between the variant that

was found in India and the number of cases in India that is surging for the last month and a half, although the clinical correlation still has to be


So that is where we stand right now.

This is the first time you had the Health Ministry come out and say yes, there may be a correlation between the Indian variant and with the cases

that are surging in India until now. We are just waiting for some kind of findings to take place which is still to be expected in the days to come --



CHATTERLEY: Yes, and we'll continue watching. Stay safe, Vedika. Thank you for that report.

We'll catch up with a doctor on the front lines later on in the show. For now, Vedika Sud, thank you.

U.S. pharma stocks facing selling pressure after the Biden administration said it is willing to waive patent protections for COVID-19 vaccines. It is

in response to a request by India and South Africa as I mentioned, but vaccine makers, well, they're pushing back.


DR. OZLEM TURECI, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, BIONTECH: Patents are not the limiting factor for the production of example, our vaccine. There are a

number of important factors in producing vaccines.

For example, our manufacturing process involves more than 50,000 steps, all of which have to be executed accurately in order to ensure efficacy and

safety --


CHATTERLEY: And David McKenzie joins us now from Johannesburg. David, it is interesting, isn't it? IT'S like a chef saying, look, I can share the

recipe, but if we don't have the ingredients, we are not going to be able to produce whatever it is, and then in this case, of course, it is


But India and South Africa have been asking for this information.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, I mean, to continue the analogy, it's like a chef that owns the restaurant and to the critics that

is deciding who should be let inside to be honest. Eighty percent of the world's vaccine doses have been given to high and middle income countries,

and low and middle income countries have just not seen that amount of vaccine doses, and critics including here in South Africa and India are

saying that is partly because of patent restrictions.

Now, there is certainly a significant debate going on, whether manufacturing would be possible to build up in the short term or whether

even the members of the W.T.O. can come to an agreement within a span of a few months.

It was a surprise to many that the U.S. administration, the Biden administration backed waiving -- temporarily waiving these patents, but if

you just look at the timeline, even if this takes several months, and even if manufacturing is difficult, developing countries face a pandemic that

could last for several years.

So getting this right in a way that everyone is happy with is something worth fighting for so those here in South Africa, India and other


CHATTERLEY: Yes, it is quite fascinating, isn't it? Because this is the U.S. government putting Big Pharma on notice. As I mentioned at the top of

the show, your innovation, your R&D is fair game in a situation like this where we have a global pandemic and as we said many times in this show, no

one is safe unless we are all safe, but it has left the likes of the E.U., Switzerland, Brazil, the U.K. fighting, scrambling to decide how they're

going to respond, and we're still waiting for that.

The big question is even if it doesn't help in the short term with increasing manufacturing capabilities, can all of these nations come

together just in some way some kind of global, coherent strategy over vaccines because we don't have that right now.

MCKENZIE: No, and I think the talk about solidarity has frankly been mostly talk. There have been moves by the COVAX global alliance for

vaccines to get vaccines out and that is being laudable say public health experts, but understandably in a way, nation states have wanted to protect

their own citizens, but many have hoarded more vaccines than they actually need.

But it is since a political shift I think on this issue, partly because of the horrifying scenes you're seeing in India, the prospect of a really bad

wave in Africa, in certain countries and other parts of the developing world, and the scenario that you have young, healthy people being

vaccinated in the global north, and people with no possibility of vaccines in the global south to a large degree. I think that politics is shifting.

There's also just an interesting practical matter here. You know, researchers I spoke to yesterday from Duke University said you'll soon get

to a situation where the supply in the U.S. outstrips the demand, and then you could get into a situation that maybe these talks at the W.T.O. aren't

necessary necessarily in the short term because there could be a lot of vaccines available.

But in the next few months, I think it is that critical window where really, the lack of solidarity, the lack of any kind of equality is going

to punish poorer nations, and as a result not help sort out this COVID-19 pandemic for everyone given the prospects of scary new variants developing

-- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, lack of equality and lack of coordination to do better. Therein lies the key. David McKenzie, thank you for that.

Okay, now to a fishy faceoff between France and the U.K., I'm talking about fishing rights by the way.

Both nations sent Navy patrol ships to the channel island of Jersey amid an escalating row that has led to a blockade of one of its ports by French


Salma Abdelaziz joins us now. I think, Salma, you know, we as Brits or those in this game understand what on earth is going on here, but I think

for the rest of the world, they're just like: what on earth? Please explain what's going on.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely, Julia, and I just want to start by showing you a couple of newspaper headlines because if you woke up

thinking Britain is about to go to war to France, you might be forgiven.

Here is one from "The Daily Express." "Boris Sends Gun Boats to Defend Jersey." Another one here from "The Daily Telegraph," "PM Sends Navy to

Face the French in Jersey."

So you have some very dramatic headlines there, but Julia, let me break this down. There is the micro and there is the macro.

What's happening on the Island of Jersey? This is a channel island just 14 miles from France. There's been rules that have been governing the fishing

islands and the fishing rights off of Jersey since the 19th Century. Those were overturned of course by Brexit. That caused friction. That caused


There was a temporary amnesty announcement that expired on May 1st and then the Jersey government began doing what the Brexit agreement says it should

do, which is it issues the fishing licenses to the French fishermen.

Now, French fishermen say those licenses were not being issued fairly, essentially that there was a barrier to entry there that kept them out of

waters that they have historically been in, and now we have today this protest. Seventy vessels, French fishing vessels just off of the coast of

Jersey. The British Prime Minister responded of course, by sending two Navy ships saying he fears a blockade potentially that they are there to monitor

the situation.

The French fishing protesters say that is not their goal. It is a maritime demonstration, they do not intend to blockade the ports, but you can see

all of this escalating and while both sides say, now is the time for calm, now is the time for talk, you hear Prime Minister Boris Johnson saying he

has unwavering support for the people of Jersey.

You hear the French government saying they are willing to cut off electricity to the island. That would be critical because it depends on

electricity from France, over 95 percent of power comes from France, but let's talk about the bigger picture. Why is this all happening now?

Well, first point, there's an election here in the U.K. today, and it comes at a very difficult time for the Prime Minister who has been in the

headlines in a very negative way lately, Julia.

Controversy over potential corruption in his government. Controversy over his handling of the COVID crisis, and then today of course, people going to

the ballot box, and British Prime Minister Johnson, some critics might argue is doing what he does best, raising that British flag, raising if you

will the call for nationalism, the call for Britain, and that could be very dangerous when you are talking about a Brexit agreement that's only been in

place for a few months now and could cause more friction -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. This is war, Salma, and actually one individual in Jersey taking matters into his own hands. I saw video of him literally firing a

musket shot looking full regalia there, at some of the French boats. I mean, wow.

ABDELAZIZ: Absolutely.

CHATTERLEY: Now that is some dedication to the cause. Salma, we shall see how this plays out. Wowsers. Salma Abdelaziz there, thank you.

All right, relations taking a turn for the worse between China and Australia today too. China announcing that it is cutting off economic

dialogue with Canberra indefinitely stoking fears that Australian exports will suffer. Australian markets falling on the news, too.

David Culver joins me now. David, how important is this dialogue strategically or symbolically? I mean, you and I have talked about the

deteriorating relationship between these two countries, but as far as this dialogue is concerned, how recent has it been used?

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have been talking about this deteriorating relationship. I mean, a lot of attention has been focused on

the U.S. and China, but, Julia, as you point out, China and Australia in the midst of a deteriorating and worsening relationship now.

This is mostly a symbolic partnership if you will. It is the China- Australia Strategic Economic Dialogue, it is a bit wordy, but the reality is, it hasn't been used since 2017. It started in 2014, so it is relatively

new, but the whole idea behind it was bringing together both countries at the Ministry level, having discussions about investment and business

opportunities and moving forward with putting those into action. It's come to a halt now.

China on Thursday saying they are suspending that for now. They cite what they consider to be a Cold War mentality put in place by Australian

officials. They don't go into too much detail, but they say, essentially, it is ideological discrimination in their words.

Now, Australia has pushed back saying that they consider this suspension to be disappointing. They go on to say that they hope they can reignite

dialogue in the near future, but the reality is we have seen between China and Australia over the past year plus this worsening relationship and it

goes back to not only what we're seeing now in this breakdown in dialogue, but also actual tariffs being put in place by China on Australian exports,

everything from wine to barley, to beef, and it's had an impact.


CULVER: More than 60 percent in 2020 of Australian exports were impacted in this, Julia, and anecdotally, I can tell you, I was speaking with

somebody who is an executive in hospitality here, he pulled me aside. He works for a western brand hotel. He said, it is a real struggle right now

for them to be continuing to import something as simple as Australian beef for example because at the local level, you've got officials who will come

to that property, let's say hotel, this one in particular, tell them they need to halt bringing in anything from Australia particularly related to


So, this is something that is playing out at the local level, too, but they're trying to figure out how long it will go on for.

Now, people like the gentleman I was speaking with, trying to find another source for their beef.

It is becoming a struggle for many of the businesses here, but it is also speaking to the bigger picture of dialogue and conversation, what we

thought was going to reignite after the Trump administration even now with Australia continuing to break down.

CHATTERLEY: And all this because of Australia has simply asked for an investigation into the origins of COVID-19. It doesn't half feel like a bit

of an overreaction on China's part here.

CULVER: That's right.

CHATTERLEY: But we will leave that there, David. I am sure we will continue to discuss this in the future. Thank you. David Culver there.

All right, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, lessons learned. The CEO of online education company, Coursera on navigating the back to school era.

And the roaring 20s reboot. What the last century's decade of decadence can teach us about some post-pandemic pitfalls, that's coming up. Stay with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. The Wall Street majors struggling with the market with the NASDAQ on track to fall for a fifth straight


Investors bracing, too, for tomorrow's eagerly awaited U.S. jobs report, but of course, the strong gains expected, perhaps already priced into

stocks at these levels.

Ahead of that though, encouraging jobs data today, too. First time jobless claims in the United States dipping below 500,000 for the first time since

the pandemic.


CHATTERLEY: The relatively improving jobs picture helping fuel the re- opening optimism that is driving commodity prices higher, and of course, raising inflationary fears.

Copper, silver, platinum all as you can see higher in the session today. Copper actually near record highs. Iron ore also at records, too.

Just to give you a sense of what we're seeing year-to-date, lumber soaring 87 percent. Brent crude and copper up 30 percent, plus steel up a mere 27


Rise in commodity prices, just one of the forces unleashed by the pandemic that will fuel the growth of some emerging nations and leave others behind,

so says my next guest, the digital revolution and the necessity of economic reforms, too will be key to the rise of some nations and perhaps the fall

of others.

He is Ruchir Sharma, Head of Emerging Markets and Chief Global Strategist at Morgan Stanley Investment Management. And he joins us now. He's also the

author of the book "The 10 Rules of Successful Nations."

Ruchir, great to have you with us. You've produced so many great reports. It's tough to choose what to talk about, but it is the impact of the

digital revolution that caught my eye.

We often talk about in terms of our experiences in the developed world, but for emerging markets, too, particularly as a proportion for the economic

output that's derived from the digital sector, this is huge. Talk us through it.

RUCHIR SHARMA, CHIEF GLOBAL STRATEGIST, MORGAN STANLEY INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT: Yes, hi, Julia. I think that this is a new driver of economic

growth in emerging markets because the cost of adopting technologies in emerging markets has fallen dramatically.

Just to put this in context, a decade ago, the number of smartphones in the world was merely a billion. Today now, you have more than four billion

smartphones in the world which basically means more than half the population is carrying the equivalent of what used to be a supercomputer in

their pocket. That's a huge driver of economic growth because the amount that you can get done there, using the smartphone as on example, it passes

a lot of the traditional infrastructure.

What's the problem for emerging market growth in all of these years and decades? They don't have the good infrastructure, they have lots of

corruption, and here comes a digital revolution which is able to able to bypass time. You can do banking by your phone. On corruption, there is much

better building of trust when you are able to transact using a digital record.

So therefore I feel optimistic because there has been such pessimism that where will the next leg of growth come for emerging markets, particularly

in an era of de-globalization. I think that if have digital revolution keep spreading, and it is, the growth in digital revenues in emerging markets as

we point out today, is twice as fast as what we're seeing in the developed world.

So this I think is the new driver of growth and why I have changed my mind on emerging markets over the last few years.

CHATTERLEY: And digital revenues to be clear are going far faster than the overall economy. So, if you look at the overall economic growth rates, it

sort of belies what's going on beneath the surface.

SHARMA: Yes, and I think it is offsetting a lot of the other negatives, you know, the traditional model for growth in emerging markets whether you

would explode your way to prosperity that you make manufactured goods and you would export them to the rest of the world. That is how China, Japan,

Korea, Taiwan all grew.

Now, there is a market for that. There are a few economies which are still doing that such as Vietnam or Poland, but in general, that market is

shrinking because the world is moving much more online, and also, in an era of de-globalization and tariffs going up, it is sort easy to play that


So I think that therefore, focusing more on the domestic economy and enhancing the productivity by making it more digitized is the way to go,

and many emerging markets are following the example and doing that, and China has been Exhibit A of that. That the Chinese economy today, the

digital revenues are the share of its economy is twice as large as the United States. That's a huge statement.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, the United States is a slug, doing its best trying to digitize, and it's been just outshone by what we've seen not just in China,

but I think in Southeast Asia, too.

I mentioned commodity prices as well and the dramatic rises that we have seen this year, do you believe the revival that we're seeing will endure?

SHARMA: Yes. I think commodities go through these very cyclical patterns if you look at the last 200 years of data which is that they have a down

decade and they have an up decade, because -- so what's happening on the commodity prices are two things. One, a lot of the excess capacity which

will be there in commodities from oil to copper, a lot of the excess capacity got cut over the last few years because we had so much supply and

prices were so low, so producers got their capacity.

Now demand is also coming back in some sort of a new form, which is that the big team in markets out there, there is this green wave as you know

that the world wants to go more green and build new infrastructure around that, so therefore copper for EVs, silver for solar panels.


SHARMA: The demand for commodities is coming back through that route, so in a way, the green wave could be the new China for the commodity markets

in terms of lifting demand, and that again is happening at a time when supply has been cut, and by the time the producers bring new supplies back

on to the market, it takes a few years. It takes a long time to set up such capital investment. So, commodities are in that sweet spot.

And lastly, inflation, I think that people want to start owning assets which they think are a hedge against inflation, so owning homes, owning

commodities is diversifying their portfolio away from just owning stocks and bonds.

CHATTERLEY: And the weak U.S. dollar, to your point, as well about the inflationary aspects that we're seeing here as well, I mean, there's a

mind-blowing stat from one of your latest reports that 21 percent of all U.S. dollars were printed in 2020.

I don't even know how to approach how you invest in that kind of world. That is a mind-blowing statistic. I guess, what first came to my mind was,

a reason to buy cryptocurrencies perhaps? Or a justification.

SHARMA: Yes, we spoke about this last year in September, and I sort of had said at that point in time, and I wish I had put my money where my mouth

was because back in September, I think that's the mistake we all did even as investors, which you know, the cryptocurrency back then was $10,000.00

or something like that, $12,000.00 and here we are and people are asking the question, would you still do it now?

And my point is that, listen, the size of the cryptocurrency market and Bitcoin is just over a trillion dollars. The size of the gold market which

was traditionally considered as the hedge against inflation or against too much dollar debasement is more than $12 trillion. So there's considerable

scope for the cryptocurrency market to keep growing, I think, and yes, I mean, these prices, they are very frothy just now, but it is definitely

something we have to think about again on the portfolio rather than all these Central Banks printing currencies and debasing them as that statistic

is actually correct.

And the other Central Banks in the world are not too far behind in the amount that they are printing, so people are looking for alternatives and

the cryptocurrency is obviously one such alternative with Bitcoin in particular, because its supply is limited unlike what is happening in terms

of dollar printing.

CHATTERLEY: I mean you make the point as well that 27 percent of millennials own cryptocurrencies or digital assets and just three percent

of boomers. I mean, these are the guys that have pensions to worry about and perhaps retirement hopefully at some point.

Do you think that percentage could dramatically increase as people get more comfortable with the space?

SHARMA: Yes, I think that we need to see on the cryptocurrency market is for the volatility to stabilize a bit. What I think scares a lot of people


CHATTERLEY: But that is happening.

SHARMA: Yes, exactly. It's falling now. You know, so the volatility is there, and I love the way everybody rushes to a headline every time Bitcoin

falls by 10 percent, it is over, it is flat, it is finished and it keeps coming back at you.

So, I think that as volatility drops, people will become more comfortable with the idea of owning that in the portfolio, but I think that's what

concerns a lot of people, and so therefore, yes, this demographic split is really quite fascinating, and I think it tells you about many things in the


You know, the other trend I speak about in terms of gaming that the older generation is waiting to see movies and seeing even online streaming, and

the younger millennials and all, they're all doing gaming. So the Gaming Awards now, you know, I think as much -- it has got more of an audience

than the Oscars do or something.

So, it is like a whole shift going on, and we are still like, you know, split along demographic lines in terms of what the older generation is

watching, seeing, consuming, and investing versus what the millennials are doing.

CHATTERLEY: You know, I love our conversations because I start somewhere and I never know where I'm going to end up, but I have about 30 seconds.

Ruchir, I started talking about emerging markets and picking winners and losers. Just super quickly, who do you think, if you had to pick the

ultimate winner perhaps of the next five to 10 years in terms of EM markets versus who may really struggle? What would you say?

SHARMA: I say that for me, the winners in terms of the -- you know, I thought about this awhile back. I think Vietnam is the next East Asian

economic miracle. IT is picking up where China left off so that would be one of my winners.

I still like Eastern Europe a lot. I think the next developed countries will -- and are emerging from Eastern Europe, Czech, Poland being two

classic examples, so those are some of my favorites, and I think that countries which are not able to use any of this technology or, you know,

have some route to growth are going to struggle where politics play a big role, like Latin America today is struggling just because in Latin America,

populism is completely trumping any positive effect from commodity.


SHARMA: So, I think that that's how the split is emerging today, but yes, if you were to pick one country, and I know everyone loves doing that, I

think that Vietnam is on course to be the next East Asian economic miracle after China and before that, Korea, Taiwan and Japan but that's the spring

from there.

CHATTERLEY: I haven't been there for a long time, I must go. Ruchir, great to have you with us as always. Thank you.

Ruchir Sharma there, the head of emerging markets and Chief of Global Strategist at Morgan Stanley Investment Management. Great to chat as


The market opens next. Stay with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. stocks are up and running this Thursday and the Wall Street majors searching for direction, I think,

ahead of key employment data out of the United States tomorrow.

Some encouraging corporate stories though in the meantime. Consumer products giants Kellogg raising its full year guidance. Volkswagen,

meanwhile reporting that electric car and SUV sales doubled last quarter. It is raising its guidance, too.

Uber meanwhile reporting a much narrower than expected loss saying the company is, quote "starting to fire on all cylinders," but shares are

pulling back as it sets aside $600 million to pay its British drivers more after a recent U.K. court ruling.

Peloton meanwhile under pressure, too, after Wednesdays 14 percent drop. Peloton announcing that it is recalling all of its treadmills amid safety


Okay, let us bring it back to our top story today. India reporting the highest ever daily surge with more than 412,000 new COVID-19 cases. Almost

4,000 people lost their lives in just one day.

As the world's second most populous country is being devastated by the second wave, a top government adviser issued a major new warning.


K. VIJAY RAGHAVAN, INDIAN GOVERNMENT PRINCIPAL SCIENTIFIC ADVISER: The phase three is inevitable given the high levels of circulating virus, but

it is not clear on what time scale this phase three will occur.

Hopefully, incrementally, but we should prepare for new waves.



CHATTERLEY: Dr. Bornali Datta is the Director of Respiratory Medicine at Medanta Hospital and joins us now. Dr. Dutta, thank you for making time. I

know you're incredibly busy.

Just explain to us what you're dealing with at this moment and how it feels to hear a government adviser say something like that -- a third wave.

DR. BORNALI DATTA, DIRECTOR OF RESPIRATORY MEDICINE, MEDANTA HOSPITAL: Yes, so very demoralizing, actually, because we're just in the thick of the

second wave and it is ironical that the first wave actually went by quite smoothly now that we look back, and we seem to have completely dropped our

guard, in all regards, you know, the population and the government.

And now we're in the throes of a really bad wave and we are seeing a much more sort of, you know, a much more infectious, more virulent, a very

accelerated version of what we saw last time, both by way of an individual disease, as well as the wave that is sweeping by us.

So that, you know, all of us we're dealing with it as doctors, pulmonologists, physicians in the hospital, we're just seeing younger

people, sicker people with really bad, you know, x-rays and CTs, opaque x- rays and CTs, needing high flow oxygen.

And then of course, you know, the thing of running out of oxygen and drugs, we don't have much by way of drugs, just high dose steroids and we have 30

to 40-year-olds. We are just keeling over, people not getting hospital beds. So it's a very dire, dire and grim kind of situation right now, which

I think everybody is experiencing, whether we're healthcare workers, or just a lay person who is terrified of what will happen if they fall sick.

CHATTERLEY: You are, I believe, one of the most sought after private hospitals for treating COVID-19 patients, what does that mean for who you

can accept as patients coming into the hospital, and also your access to supplies, as you were just mentioning there, things like oxygen, but also

basic levels of supplies of medication?

DATTA: Yes, we are fortunate in sort of working in a setup that we do the private organization, which is state of the art, and it has all facilities,

many beds, good staff, and you know, good levels of care that we're providing, in spite of everything, but of course, beds will always be a


It's a 1,200-bed hospital, which is one of the biggest private hospitals that there is, and more than half of the ward beds as well as ICUs, we have

almost six functioning ICUs for COVID, and six floors, each with, say, 55 beds.

So, you know, we have up to 500 patients of COVID at this point in time in hospital. Now, I mean, and obviously, people do access it, who have access

to it, but we cannot cater to everyone and that is obviously fraught for a land -- and that's just the way I guess, healthcare services work that,

unfortunately, infrastructure is not enough for a population our size and for the requirements of our size and that's terrible.

Now, oxygen-wise, again, we are fortunate that we do have oxygen supplies, although we are -- you know, we're sort of on the brink of running out of

it and then we have to freeze admissions because at least we have to look after the patients under our care. And then of course, it gets eased for a

while and then it again, dips a little bit.

So you know, we're still going through that vis-a-vis availability of medication, I think we've been all right. We know there's not a great deal

of medications that we you know, use in COVID. We're limited to high dose steroids, maybe remdesivir, maybe one of the tocilizumabs and things like


And I think we've been fortunate in that we've not had major problems running out of it. But you know, that can't be said for the vast majority

of hospitals around the city as well as in other parts of the country.

CHATTERLEY: I mean, you've been commended by the government during the last wave for saving lives. I've watched your videos where you were

explaining to people how to use oxygen condensers at home.

I think, for us internationally, that's watching, we've seen international countries, businesses sending aid to India, but we're sort of confused

about how the process works to actually get it to hospitals. What's your sense of what's going on with the oxygen shortage? Does the country

actually have enough oxygen? It's just, I guess, wealthier people perhaps that are scooping up all the supplies and then it's creating shortages?

Is there a better way to be addressing this? Can you give us your wisdom?

DATTA: Yes, so it's difficult. So in hospital, one thing you take for granted is oxygen supply. You know, I've never ever, you know, come across

a situation where we don't have oxygen and we had a meeting recently, where our Chief said that, you know, we may be running out of oxygen, and that's

sort of like a death knell almost. That's quite scary.

Now, piped oxygen, what we use in the hospitals is obviously that is what is running out, it is in short supply. So all hospitals I think across the

board have procured many concentrators to use an alternate source of oxygen from air, from ambient air essentially.

Now, internationally, obviously, we have had -- we have received a lot, and this goes to the government and then it is distributed amongst government

hospitals, which are also, you know, fighting this battle alongside. I mean, private government, now, all the boundaries have been blurred and

everybody are sort of together in this, you know, enormous battle against this virus.


DATTA: So, you're right in the sense of scooping up oxygen, but, you know, concentrators, now they do cost and there is short supply, and people who

can afford it will buy one and just keep it as a standby and that sort of that kind of hoarding and panic buying, which then leads on to the black

market, and, you know, people who do need it, then end up not getting it.

So it's a very -- it's a very complex situation. Ultimately, our healthcare services overall, are just overwhelmed with this second wave. I think,

that's the reality.

CHATTERLEY: Dr. Datta, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for all the work that you're doing. You and your team, of course, saving lives. We

appreciate you.

You're our heroes. The Director of Respiratory Medicine at Medanta Hospital. Thank you.

We're back after this.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the show. The pandemic suddenly put online learning at the forefront of education whether it's students in need of

degrees, or workers looking to reskill.

In Coursera's first report card since its IPO, Q1 revenues rose at 64 percent year-on-year with 82 million registered learners. More than 13,000

students were taking degrees, that's up 88 percent on the year before, and it is now partnering up with the likes of Facebook, Microsoft and Google to

offer more qualifications in tech.

Jeff Maggioncalda is CEO of Coursera, and he joins us now. Jeff, fantastic to have you on the show once again. That is a lot of people registered to

use your product. How many of them are actually active, taking courses or - - and versus just browsing?

JEFF MAGGIONCALDA, CEO, COURSERA: You know, it's really a wide range. We have millions of people at any given time studying this or that and as you

said in the introduction, some are deciding it's time to get a college degree. They're typically pretty intense. They're working pretty hard to

get that degree.

Others to your point, are sometimes browsing. One of the most popular courses is one from Yale called the Science of Wellbeing that talks about

how you can make choices to make yourself happier.

Those folks sometimes will dabble a little bit here and there to find something that they like.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, we talked about this sudden growth and the conversations you were having with colleges and universities as they were

saying, look, we want to keep people's education going, but we have to bring them online and do what we can.

What are you seeing now, particularly in the United States, but in other areas, people are starting to go back to schools, college for next year,

how is it going to look like for you going forward?

MAGGIONCALDA: Well, it's a little bit interesting. I think, it'll vary country by country. I heard this segment before mine around India and the

oxygen supplies, and we have a large staff in India. And, you know, it is heartbreaking to see how difficult it is in India.

So the difference between, say, being at Duke University where all the students are now pretty much vaccinated, the campus is getting ready to

open back up versus students at other countries -- in countries around the world is very different.

What we're seeing though, is in the U.S., many colleges are deciding that all the students must be vaccinated if they want to come back to campus.

What's interesting is because people can do remote learning, it's almost a choice, probably not unlike offices where Google just this morning said, if

you want to, you can work remotely, up to 20 percent of the employees, or you can go back to work.

I think students will be able to continue to learn online or go back to campus, but only if vaccinated.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's going to be fascinating to see and to your point as well, and our hearts are with your people in India as well.

Talk to me about the tech sector, because this is quite fascinating. When I see that you're partnering with Facebook, Google, IBM, Salesforce, there's

a transition of career opportunity here, but there's also an upskill of those workers, even within the jobs that they're doing to perhaps

transition within companies. Surely, that's a huge opportunity for you, too.

MAGGIONCALDA: It really is, Julia, and I don't know that people are really aware of how many job opportunities there are today and will be growing in

the next five years.

Microsoft estimates that today, there's about 41 million, they call it digital job capacity. So the number of digital jobs today is about 41

million. They think it's going to grow by another 149 million in just the next five years and many of those digital jobs, you can learn how to do

without a college degree, without any prior experience and you can learn the skills fully online.

And then the final thing I'll add, is many of those jobs increasingly can be done remotely. So, even if the job opportunities are not in your

community, and even if the college is not in your community, you can learn online, and you can work online without having to leave your community. I

think that's an extraordinary opportunity for many people.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, whether it's the workplace in this global talent pool, or the ability to get education wherever you are and make it applicable

somewhere else, this could be incredibly transformative, I think.

What's going to be the biggest challenge? Because I look at how much money you're spending and clearly, you are in a growth phase. You're rapidly

trying to expand. Anything to concern you there? Perhaps need to raise more money or are you comfortable with what you're doing and how you're

operating in this growth phase?

MAGGIONCALDA: Yes, we're feeling pretty good. If you look at our free cash flow, it's about minus $9 million. So on that we had free cash flow about

minus $9 million. After the IPO, we have about $800 million on the balance sheet.

So we're feeling really good that the company is growing nicely. That it is sort of exhibiting the kind of operating leverage that we're looking at. We

are continuing to move closer and closer to profitability. But mostly we're really trying to drive those growth rates.

As you said, our revenue growth overall was up 64 percent year-on-year and we think there's a big opportunity to serve the world.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, there's a reason why I mentioned those in the introduction. Jeff, great to have you with us.


CHATTERLEY: Keep coming back and talking to us. Good to see you working. The CEO of Coursera.

MAGGIONCALDA: Good to see you, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. All right, the stock markets at record highs and ramping consumer spending. The U.S. economy looks pretty similar to the

roaring 20s, but does it mean we're in for the same stark ending? That story after the break.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE, a global pandemic and American consumer with a seemingly endless desire to spend in what looked like an

unstoppable stock market hitting record highs. It is hard to believe it was just a century ago.

And now some economists say the U.S. may be on the verge of another roaring 20s. Clare Sebastian has investigated.


CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A time of post- pandemic euphoria, excessive drinking, and stock market speculation.

DONALD MILLER, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, LAFAYETTE UNIVERSITY: Low inflation, easy money from the Federal Reserve, there is a surging sense that the

model is going to be better than yesterday.

ROBERT SHILLER, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS, YALE UNIVERSITY: One step down, two steps up was the mantra in the 1920s.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): Between August 1921, the start of the 1920s bull market and its peak in September 1929, the Dow Jones Industrial average

grew more than 500 percent, compare that to today's 20s, the Dow already up more than 80 percent since the pandemic fueled panic last March.

And behind those numbers are ordinary people. Today, amateur traders attracted by free trading platforms and social media stars.


SEBASTIAN (voice over): A century ago by another form of entertainment.

SHILLER: Your broker would have a customer's room with a trans-lux stock ticker, which is a big thing that every -- a whole crowd could observe. It

was like watching a movie.

SEBASTIAN (on camera): As the illegal drinks flowed in the underground speakeasies of the 1920s, few, it seems were even aware that the boom years

could come to an end.

But a cocktail of risks were taking shape, and some of that cocktail we are still drinking today.

MILLER: People began to have the opportunity to buy stocks in the 1920s on the margin -- only pay 10 percent.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): Trading with borrowed money or margin trading became popular in the 1920s AND the risks were not widely known.

Today, while margin trading is better regulated, it is still causing major volatility in some assets.

SHILLER: I think the GameStop phenomenon sobered a lot of people and also the Bitcoin phenomenon, the up and down and up. But again, what they take

from it, so far hasn't been much discouragement about the stock market.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): And beyond the stock market, there is another historical risk in the mix.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Twenty million Americans lost their job in the pandemic, working and middle class Americans. At the

same time, roughly 650 billionaires in America saw their net worth increase by more than $1 trillion.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): Income inequality which hit a 20th Century peak in the U.S. in 1929 now rising again, and history shows us that makes the

economy less resilient to shocks.

MILLER: The rich, of course, when a recession or depression hits, they have a lot of disposable income and they can withdraw it and pull it out

and the middle class can't.

So with them unemployed, there's no money being infused into the economy and the recession really turns into a depression with remarkable speed.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): Today, the U.S. has a much more proactive Central Bank and the government already spending on social programs. The lesson of

the last roaring 20s: always be ready for the music to stop.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, New York.


CHATTERLEY: So yesterday, we told you about an out of control rocket crashing to Earth, you'll be pleased to know today we have some better


For the first time ever SpaceX's Mars prototype rocket landed perfectly in Texas. It took off. It soared 10 kilometers and then descended safely.


CHATTERLEY: Look at that. Just incredible. Previous attempts, well, they hadn't gone quite so well. There was a pretty fiery ending to an earlier

test, oh, look at that.

One day, SpaceX hopes to use a rocket to carry humans to Mars. Yes, fairy tale endings only, please, no fiery ones. Wow.

That's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. You can search for


In the meantime, stay safe. "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is next, and I'll see you tomorrow.