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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Hamas Tells CNN to Expect an Imminent Pause in the Israeli-Gaza Conflict; Digital Currency Prices Stabilized after a Day of Wild Swings; Oatly Set for a $10 Billion IPO. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired May 20, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.
Ceasefire speculation. Hamas tells CNN to expect an imminent pause in the Israeli-Gaza conflict.
Crypto calming. Digital currency prices stabilized after a day of wild swings.
And milking the market. Oatly set for a $10 billion IPO, we've got the CEO.
It's Thursday. Let's make a move.
A warm welcome once again to FIRST MOVE and we begin with the latest on the Middle East, an eight and a half-hour lull in rocket fire from Gaza into
Israel has now ended. It was the longest pause since the conflict began 11 days ago.
Hamas officials told CNN Wednesday that a ceasefire arrangement with Israel could be imminent "possibly within 24 hours," quote. Israeli airstrikes of
Gaza continued overnight. The Prime Minister says the operation will end when its objectives are achieved. Nic Robertson joins us now.
Nic, good to have you with us. So, Hamas indicating at least to CNN that they are hoping that a ceasefire could be imminent within the next 24
hours. What are we hearing from the Israeli side, if anything, on that?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I don't know if you could hear, just then, Julia, but that was an intercept right up in the sky
above my head.
That was rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel. A siren had just gone off very close to us here, the Iron Dome intercepted that one. Sirens had
gone off north of Gaza as well because a rocket is coming from Gaza towards Ashdod up the coast. The rocket impacted in Ashkelon earlier, a lot of
damage done to a house there. Three civilians slightly wounded today.
That ceasefire, yes, when you look at what's happening right now, that ceasefire, if it was a pause by Hamas. That's gone. The Israeli Air Force
said overnight that they were targeting Hamas tunnels, that they were targeting Hamas commanders, weapon stores, rocket launchers and in the past
couple of hours, the Israeli Air Force say just a couple of miles in that direction, they've targeted Hamas trying to sort of prepare a new tunnel
We have seen artillery fire going in that direction as well from guns like the ones behind me here. So I think, you know, we are right at the moment
we're in this sort of wait and see mode. Is the diplomacy going to work out? Is it not?
Hamas sort of paused overnight. But then in the morning, Hamas announced that they have fired a rocket launcher-type device at an Israeli base near
to Gaza and they hit a military bus there. There was no one on the bus, but one soldier who was slightly injured.
Germany's Foreign Minister is in Jerusalem today, has met with Benny Gantz, the Defense Minister. He is going to meet with Palestinian Authority
officials as well. We understand the U.N. representative on Middle East Peace is having meetings in Qatar today.
So definitely there, the movement to narratives behind the scenes for this diplomatic process. At the moment, you know, here in the field, if you're
living in one of the towns around here, you feel just as afraid from the rockets as they were before. We were in a town not far from here when the
sirens went off and everyone took cover, and I talked to people there and they are very concerned about the situation, but the same in Gaza, when
they see the airstrikes coming in, they are worried about their situation and their families as well. And I think, you know, a lot of people here
wanting and hoping that there is going to be this ceasefire.
But one of the Israeli television channels here has been reporting their polling, hard for us to know how accurate their polling is, but certainly,
the Prime Minister will have seen it and the people of Israel would have seen it as well, and that polling which will drive public opinion -- that
polling says the vast majority of people still support the Prime Minister here, Benjamin Netanyahu continuing as he said, with actions in Gaza.
So, that's the sort of -- that's the sort of backdrop to what we see going on at the moment -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and in this moment, Nic as you alluded to at the beginning, actions like artillery, rocket fire speak louder than words. We
await a ceasefire.
Nic Robertson, thank you so much for that.
CHATTERLEY: Okay. For any immediate and any news on that potential ceasefire, the moment we get them, and the latest, of course, will be
coming throughout the day here on CNN.
For now, let's move on and the big story in business today. The great crypto cave in, steady on consolidation to others, caving to others, too.
Bitcoin looking firmer this session as you can see, reclaiming the $41,000.00 level again a day after plunging 30 percent and then recovering
later on in the session.
The Bitcoin bulls say we've been here before, it's a healthy correction, the bear say it's all over. And of course, that's what makes markets.
The chart though says a great deal. The crypto crunch climax at around this time yesterday with Bitcoin shedding more than a quarter of its value and
then recovered somewhat later. Volatility is the watchword.
Bitcoin, meanwhile, not the only crypto to bounce. Ethereum, Litecoin and XRP, all higher this session, too.
The big question now, long term viability, imminent regulation, the ability to use these digital assets as a method of payment amid such great
volatility, not to mention, of course questions about their ability to act as a hedge against inflation.
Coming up, Brian Brooks, the CEO of crypto exchange, Binance U.S. and the former acting us Comptroller of the Currency will give us his take and give
us the what next, too, if we can answer it.
Now as crypto tries to convalesce, stocks try to stabilize, too, and this is key. And it was a risk off day all around on Wednesday. A better picture
though, meanwhile, in Europe, and mixed day in Asia, though tech stocks are pressured with Cisco off more than four percent premarket.
They warned like many others on chip shortages, too.
We've also had a warning from the Fed in the last 24 hours as well. The minutes of the last meeting shows some policymakers open to tapering talks
of scaling back of bond purchases if the strong economic recovery remains on course.
The question is when does patience become pernicious? Okay, on to our main driver.
Crypto to the moon or a lead balloon? That is a question. Crash, correction consolidation or a comeback? Many investors are wondering what next?
Bitcoin, as we have mentioned, clawing back some of its losses today, but nearly a fifth has been wiped off the value in a week. And that's also
dragged down rivals, too.
There is a lot going on in this space. Clare Sebastian joins me now. I mean, no, we're looking at a one month -- a one week move there. Clare,
just talk us through some of the price action because I think a lot of investors just sort of struggling to keep up quite frankly.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So I think yesterday certainly what characterized it was this V-shape that you talked about.
Overnight, lost about a quarter of its value, bottoming out just about as you and I were speaking yesterday morning, Julia at about $31,000.00.
And then it really just regained pretty much all of that. Now, we know why it fell. There was some news overnight from the Chinese regulators cracking
down again on Bitcoin. We know that the news over the past month from Tesla has been sort of negative around Bitcoin, you know, initially, of course,
Elon Musk saying that they were suspending purchases of cars using Bitcoin because of environmental concerns, then some questions around whether he
was holding on to his Bitcoin holdings.
So all of that sort of culminated. There's of course leverage, of course in Bitcoin trades which exacerbates these moves, and then why it came back?
Well, I think there was some dip buying, a lot of people, a lot of chatter online is about when to get in as this rocket ship continues to rise, as
we've seen it rise over the past year.
And also another, we can't do any of these moves without Elon Musk. Julia, another tweet from Elon Musk, yesterday, a diamond and a pair of hands
indicating that along the lines of Wall Street bet, that Reddit groups slang, indicating that he is hanging on to his Bitcoin holdings for now.
So that would have helped that ride yesterday, but still, as you say, down significantly on the week.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it was quite funny. I got a tweet from somebody and a text from someone else at "The Times" saying, what does that mean? I was
like, I don't know, and actually we weren't showing you there the tweet that you mentioned. We were showing you another tweet that took place this
Just bring that back up now because we've mentioned it. It looks like a U.S. dollar, but the figure there is a dog, I don't whether you can see
that. It sees "Cyber Viking" and it also says how much is that Doge or doggy -- in the window? Clare, technical explanation if you can.
SEBASTIAN: I mean, so Dogecoin presumably, yes, he is referring to Dogecoin. You know, there was a reaction. Dogecoin, of course, you know,
the sort of underdog if you will, the cryptocurrency that Elon Musk has been, you know, really supporting and tweeting about and talking about on
"SNL" in recent weeks.
Then he sent the price of Dogecoin, which had been recovering from the broader crypto row that we saw yesterday. He sent that price up six cents
on that tweet. That's about 15 percent. So clearly, this is a cryptocurrency perhaps even more than others that really hangs on his every
It started as a joke, it needs him as a backer, otherwise there's very little else sort of there to trade on.
SEBASTIAN: But you know, you've got to wonder why is he doing this? Clearly, he understands that he contributes to the volatility, but then
again, if he stops talking about it, and we stop talking about it, would the hype still be there?
A lot of questions, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: A great question, quite frankly. And you know what? Bitcoin and digital assets are far bigger than one person. They are all very
individual. The underlying technologies beneath them are very important. But the structure of the market matters, too, particularly when you're
comparing it to things like stocks, and we're going to talk about that and perhaps what's required in this market to bring some of that volatility
It is early, nascent stages of this technology, of this sector in particular, so we will discuss, Clare. Crypto Clare, thank you so much for
All right, another high profile CEO of a Chinese tech giant is stepping down. This time, it is Zhang Yiming. He is the Head of ByteDance, the owner
of popular video app, TikTok and he says he is leaving the role because he lacks managerial skills.
This comes after the CEOs of Ant Group and Pinduoduo recently resigned, as Beijing ramps up pressure on the tech sector.
Paul La Monica joins me with more. Paul, great to have you with us. There's two interesting things here. And I've kind of touched on them both there.
One, the fact that this is another high profile CEO, founder of a tech business that's stepping away at a time when they are under great scrutiny.
And it kind of alludes to the story that we were just discussing. It's also a senior innovator of a business saying, you know what, I love innovating.
I'm hugely creative. I'm not necessarily the best manager of a business. And that matters, that truth can matter.
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, and I think to be honest, Julia, it's refreshing to get that perspective because there are a lot of
visionary CEOs out there. And, you know, Elon Musk comes to mind, Mark Zuckerberg. The difference between Tesla and Facebook, Elan Musk doesn't
have a COO, there's really no one in there to rein him in the way that SpaceX does with Gwynne Shotwell.
Facebook, you've got Sheryl Sandberg helping to maybe keep Mark Zuckerberg in check every now and then. So that is something that I think is
interesting here. When you look at the fact that ByteDance and TikTok, clearly, so much momentum with the amount of social media clout this
company has now, the user growth and concerns about whether or not they were going to, you know, not really to be able to operate in the U.S. based
on what was happening with the Trump administration's crackdown in China before, you know, the Biden administration came in.
I think it's encouraging to see that this particular person said, you know what, I'm going to take a step back and be almost more like what Tim Cook
does at Apple. No one in their right mind is going to call Tim Cook a visionary along the lines of Steve Jobs, but he is an operational guru. And
that's why Apple is now the multitrillion dollar company that it is even though Steve Jobs has, you know, not been around for several years.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, you raise some great points. If we hone it back and bring it back to ByteDance here, is much going to change on a day-to-day basis?
Who will now take over?
LA MONICA: Yes, I don't think much is going to change. The co-founder and interestingly, Human Resources officer is going to take over. I would
expect that ByteDance and TikTok will continue to try and become an even bigger presence in the global social media race than it already is.
And potentially, will get even larger in the U.S. It looks like the pressure on ByteDance to sell TikTok to an American buyer that's really not
necessarily in the cards as much anymore. There had been all the chatter about the Oracle-Walmart team, you know, partnering up to buy the assets of
TikTok in the U.S., not so sure that we need that to happen right now.
So I think that this is going to be just another example of a visionary CEO, recognizing his strengths and his weaknesses and passing the reins to
someone who has more of an operational focus and not necessarily the pie in the sky product innovation focus that the founder -- co-founder currently
CHATTERLEY: I was just plumbing the depths of my memory bank there when you mentioned that, all of those challenges in the United States for tech,
it feels like years ago, so much has happened.
They want some peace and quiet. Will they get it? Paul La Monica, thank you for that.
All right, let's bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories making headlines around the world. At least 113 people have now died from a
powerful cyclone that hit Western India this week. The storm has left the huge trail of destruction with thousands of homes damaged and access to
roads blocked by fallen trees.
All this is adding further pressure on states already dealing with the COVID surge.
CHATTERLEY: Several people also died when a barge near Mumbai sank during the cyclone. Dozens of people are still missing, and authorities have
launched a massive operation to search for the remaining crew as CNN's Anna Coren reports.
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: the Indian Navy is continuing its search for dozens of missing crew from a barge that sank off the coast
of Mumbai on Monday night as a result of a monster cyclone pummeling the nation's western coast. One hundred and eighty eight people have been
rescued, and more than two dozen bodies have been retrieved in what have been described as terrifying conditions as up to eight meter waves hampered
Survivors praised the Navy for its heroism.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The Indian Navy was a godsend for us. They arrived in the nick of time. We were clinging on to the barge and
luckily, the life jackets helped us as the water was going over our head.
The Navy officials threw ropes and life buoys. We are lucky to be alive. They gave us warm food and medical treatment.
COREN: The disaster comes as India remains in the grips of a devastating second wave of COVID-19. The Health Ministry on Thursday said there were
more than 276,000 daily infections and more than 3,800 deaths. A drop from the global record daily death toll the day before of more than four and a
As authorities try and tackle the pandemic, they are also seeing a surge in cases of the disease, mucormycosis, also known as black fungus that's been
targeting COVID patients.
Mucormycosis affix people with a compromised immune system or who are diabetics. The state of Rajasthan has declared it an epidemic while other
states have labeled it a notifiable disease, which means they've alerted the governments of the seriousness of the surge.
Another complication for a country already reeling from the pandemic.
Anna Coren, CNN, Hong Kong.
CHATTERLEY: All right, still to come here on FIRST MOVE. No cow, but wow. Alternative milk brand, Oatly goes public at a valuation of $10 billion
after that infamous Super Bowl ad. Yes, we'll discuss that, too.
And King Randall's dream, I speak to a 21-year-old activist setting up a school to empower the young men in his community. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York where we are seeing a touch of green premarket of stocks after three straight days of
losses, all of this amid continued concern about rising global inflationary pressures.
Germany, reporting that its producer prices saw the biggest jump in almost a decade last month, another sign there.
Bitcoin also catching a bit after yesterday's wild 30 percent plunge and partial recovery, above $42,000.00 there. You could also argue that the
search for longer term crypto calm can't be reached without clarity in four key areas. CALM -- C stands for China and whether it will stand in the way
of wider crypto adoption, even mining as it readies its own government coin. A stands for action by regulators. Will we see a response to some of
the price action and if it comes, will it help? Or will it suppress the need for greater innovation and liquidity? And yes, L is for border
liquidity. Unprecedented Federal Reserve support has helped fuel the rise of crypto, but also other risk assets generally. And that's how crypto felt
like it traded this week, like a risk asset. And of course, M, Musk, Elon Musk, more Musk, more momentum for good and for bad.
I couldn't help myself. Now joining us is Brian Brooks, the CEO of crypto exchange, Binance U.S. and the former acting U.S. Comptroller of the
Brian, always great to have you on the show. Let's start with some of the price action that we've seen this week. Because I meant what I said there,
crypto -- and I use the term loosely because there are a lot of different things in there -- traded like a risk asset and it feels like this is
BRIAN BROOKS, CEO, BINANCE U.S.: Yes, Julia, you're one of the smartest commentators on this and I wish I could have captured that idea myself. I
think the crypto generally traded like a risk asset yesterday. But in reality, most cryptos aren't risk assets.
Bitcoin is really the risk asset, and it has risen a lot in the last 12 months because of the very inflationary issue you talked about. The problem
yesterday is we're in a macro de-risking environment, because it's not just inflation, but international tensions, questions from China and a lot of
other things that are causing people to shed all risk assets. Crypto will recover because inflation is baked into the system, but you'll have
volatility along the way for sure.
CHATTERLEY: The big difference, and there's a few of them here, and you've mentioned it and I have, too, is that there's differences in what we're
talking about in terms of the ecosystem of the digital assets that we're talking about. The names give you some of the differences.
But it's also the amplitude of movement that we've seen in the crypto space and that comes down to technical issues. Buyers and sellers in the market,
the lack of ability to hedge in the crypto space, liquidity. Talk us through this because this is also another vital aspect of what we're seeing
BROOKS: Yes, what a great point that is. So, if you were to overlay the Bitcoin price movements of the last 48 hours, with the price movements of
the Dow Jones or the S&P 500, what you'd find is the shape of those curves are very, very similar.
The Dow dropped a lot yesterday, so did the S&P 500 over the last several days. So the difference is the amplitude, you know, why did those markets
drop two or three percent whereas crypto markets dropped 30 percent? And the answer to that is because there's a lot more price discovery in the
traditional asset classes, and that's because you have swaps and futures and shorting trades.
The problem in the U.S. is that none of the major exchanges have yet been allowed to offer some of those products that would offer more price
discovery to the market, which would have the effect of damping some of the volatility.
So we need to think really carefully about whether derivatives would help in this space by giving us more forecasting of where prices are going in
the future. You have that for equities. You don't have that for Bitcoin at scale yet.
CHATTERLEY: You know, it's quite interesting, because some people will be looking at this and saying, look, you're talking -- your book as an
exchange, you're saying, look, we need -- we need more power and more ability to have exchanges to trade crypto products, but you're also saying
you want more competition.
The risk here is perhaps that regulators come in and say we need to protect consumers, we need to crack down. And actually what you're saying is, we
need more liquidity, more exchanges, perhaps more degree of transparency. Don't wait on including an ETF product for crypto as well, allow people to
trade these in more ways.
BROOKS: Yes, that's exactly right. And here's the dirty little secret of exchanges, which kind of flips the script, Julia, on your question. We, as
an exchange did amazingly well yesterday because when prices are moving rapidly, exchanges get a lot of buyers and sellers.
So my exchange traded about three and a half billion dollars yesterday, which is an all-time high for us. We made a lot of money yesterday in
transaction fees, but that's not ultimately good for the market because we're not here for the transaction fees. We're here to incubate the
foundational technology of crypto.
And so even though exchanges do very well when people are rapidly selling or buying, the adoption rate of this depends on people having more
confidence in what these networks are that back the value of the tokens. That's what needs to come next.
CHATTERLEY: It's quite fascinating because those that are watching will have seen Coinbase and you know, that's listed. It's the only one that
really, we can gauge because it trades out there like a stock. That was down double digits at one point. So even though, to your point, sort of
making hay while the sun shines, because you benefit from the volatility, the broader sector took a pounding.
BROOKS: Exactly, because think about what stock prices represent. Stock prices don't represent how much money Coinbase made yesterday, they're the
market's expectation of future revenues. And the future value of these things is not based on one day's price movements. It's based on the long
term adoption rates of the ecosystem. So again, that's what we all have to build here.
CHATTERLEY: We keep talking about crypto, like it's one thing and it isn't. And this goes back to the point you were making at the top. We have
to look at Bitcoin, Ethereum and XRP, if we're looking at that, and I'm mentioning the big ones here. We have to look at them as different assets
that they have different underlying technologies and purposes, because otherwise, we can't differentiate.
And in the same way that you would look at a stock perhaps, an Amazon and say, look, these are the fundamentals of this versus GE, for example. Do we
need to be doing that with crypto at this stage as well?
BROOKS: Yes, you know, so I get a lot of questions about whether the problem here is crypto infrastructure or the underlying tokens, or whether
it's more about investor understanding. And as your question suggests, I think it's really about understanding.
So think about it this way. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, you know what, I need to get into stocks today. Instead, what they say is, I
think Apple has got an amazing new product, and I want to buy Apple stock, or they think I think the industrial economy is coming back, and I'm going
to buy U.S. steel or General Motors.
Every one of those stocks represents the prediction about the future success of the enterprise. And in crypto, it's about what's this network
going to do? So if you believe financial apps are going to go online, then you're probably going to buy Eth tokens because you think Ethereum will be
the platform for those financial apps.
If you believe decentralized Cloud storage is the future, you're probably going to buy Filecoin, because that's what's going to compete with AWS on
the decentralized web, et cetera, et cetera. But we still live in a world where most people think crypto is some fungible magic internet money. We
need to educate people beyond that, because there is real value here, but you have to understand what it is.
CHATTERLEY: It is so funny, as I was talking there, my team, some genius in the background showed the relative chart of Amazon versus GE. There were
some winners and there were some less than winners, quite frankly. And I guess that's the same in the crypto space, some of these digital
currencies, some of these tokens are going to disappear. We have to accept that. Some of them are going to be wildly successful going forward, is that
BROOKS: It totally is the message, Julia and we have to be comfortable with that, because in America, the reason that we're a developed rich
society is because we've allowed people to take risks, to invest in companies and over time, to let those companies be replaced by better
So most stocks that have ever traded on the New York Stock Exchange, eventually went to zero because their companies got beaten by somebody
else, you can think of the great stocks of yesteryear, the International Harvesters, the bank stocks that went away in the '80s. But some stocks
represent long term generational value and they're still with us. Same is going to be true with the crypto tokens. There will be some networks that
will be with us in 20 years and some that you'll never hear from again.
The value of the tokens is based on your prediction of which ones are going to be the winners, not dissimilar to the stock market.
CHATTERLEY: And so, if you're going to invest today, you just have to accept in the interim, there's going to be volatility, and it's going to be
BROOKS: I think that's right. But what I also think of is, I think that regulators and politicians of both political parties are going to recognize
that price discovery is a good thing. We need our markets to function better. And the best assurance of investor protection honestly, is more
So if we can have our politicians help by allowing products that bring in more people with more sides of the trade, you'll see less volatility over
time. That's kind of inevitable, but we have to get comfortable with the risk tolerance first.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, you know, it's great that you're now the CEO of Binance, U.S., but oh boy, I feel like we missed you on the regulatory
side. But anyway, can't have everything. Brian, thank you for being on the show. Thank you for educating us.
BROOKS: Thank you, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Brian Brooks, the CEO of Binance, U.S. there.
The market opens next. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. stocks are up and running this Thursday. And as expected, the major averages are trying to claw their
way back after three straight days of losses with tech, as you can see in the lead up, some six tenths of one percent. News that U.S. jobless claims
have also fallen to a fresh pandemic low helping sentiment a little here, too.
As we've been discussing throughout today's show, Bitcoin seeing a bounce after Wednesday's wild price swings and U.S. companies like Tesla,
MicroStrategy, Square and Coinbase that have exposure to the crypto market are all higher in the session so far, too. Early days, but they are higher.
Some crypto boosters calling yesterday's sharp crypto drop, capitulation. Julian Emanuel of BTIG, one of our frequent guests on FIRST MOVE still sees
Bitcoin at $50,000.00 by the end of the year.
Okay, let's bring it back to our top story today. Once again, the fighting across the Israel-Gaza border continues into an 11th day. Israeli Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says operations against Hamas in Gaza will go on even after the U.S. President said he expects to see a significant de-
John Harwood is that the White House for us. John, great to have you with us. Our colleague, Ben Wedeman said to us on the show yesterday that the
United States of America holds a lot of the cards here politically and financially with a number of players involved. This shift from President
Biden feels important.
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is. He is losing patience with the extent of this. Remember, a week ago, Julia, President Biden said
his hope and expectation would be that it's winding down soon. That was a week ago, it's continued. They tried quiet diplomacy at first, working
principally through the Egyptians and also fanning out phone calls and other diplomatic contacts throughout the region and they simply weren't
getting the response from Israel that they wanted.
Yesterday, President Biden upped the public pressure, upped the private pressure with a fourth phone call to Prime Minister Netanyahu. We do see
the -- it does appear that the violence on both sides is easing somewhat. That could be because Israel is running out of targets or that Hamas is
losing the endurance or they are willing to endure what it's been going through.
In any case, the pressure from both the Biden administration, from France, from the United Nations, and from others is rising and there's the
possibility at least that we're going to see a ceasefire sometime in the next day or two.
CHATTERLEY: We hold out hope for that. John Harwood, thank you so much.
You're watching FIRST MOVE, more to come.
CHATTERLEY: Well, the biggest oat milk brand is now a public company. Oatly started trading on the NASDAQ moments ago after an IPO that valued it
at $10 billion. The Swedish company is a major player in the alternative milk market, which holds the number two slot in Europe, has seen a fivefold
sales increase in Asia over the past year, too. The market for dairy alternatives is huge.
Sales totaled $17 billion dollars last year. That's around 12 percent of total milk sales.
Joining me is Toni Petersson, he is the CEO of Oatly. Toni, fantastic to have you on the show once again and huge, huge congratulations. I know it
probably feels quick to investors. But for you, I know that it has been more than two decades of work.
TONI PETERSSON, CEO, OATLY: You're absolutely right. And thank you so much for having me back on. I really appreciate that.
Yes, I mean, almost 30 years, you know, this journey, so we didn't start yesterday or anything like that. You're absolutely right.
CHATTERLEY: And talk me through it. So you've gone public now. We know you're on a journey. We've seen huge growth in Asia. Europe is a strong
spot. The United States, also, I believe -- and you told me this last time your single biggest market, so you've got a lot going on.
PETERSSON: All we do, I mean, the success we have generated, you know, across three continents in multiple channels reaching more and more people
with the idea of just having a better milk out there that is designed for people and human beings. And, you know, I think supply has been the
underlying theme -- supply constraints, the underlying theme of the whole journey and we're just excited with, you know, with the proceeds that we're
going to get here to be able to expand our production capacity across these continents to be able to just, you know, capture the demand for our brand
So we feel really good. Sitting here with you today, now, I feel super comfortable and good about that.
CHATTERLEY: I'm sure, it feels like a dream. You've openly said and you just said it again there and this is going to be one of my questions later
on actually was that demand is outstripping supply. Talk to me about that. Talk to me about scaling up operations and actually how much of a
constraint that is to the kind of growth that you're seeing. What can you tell us in terms of numbers?
PETERSSON: Well, if you look at the fill rate, which is our ability to ship versus the order that we get from grocery trade across five countries,
it is 70 percent. So, you know, that's a big gap that we're going to be able to close now, as we're bringing new capacity on board every single
And if you look at the way, you know, just look at the product range. Sweden and Finland are the only two countries in the world where we have
the full product range due to supply constraints. Now, it will enable us to reach more people with various products, like, you know, gurts and cooking
cream and frozen items and all that.
So I just think that it's a solid -- it's a solid exhilaration that has really, really accelerated the last two years, you know, since 2019. We
know 60 to 70 percent of our users entered the space only two years ago and we know that 40 percent of our growth is coming from new users.
So this is driven by conversion and that's the big difference now versus only a couple of years back. And this has been the idea from the very
start, 30 years ago, almost.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, I remember you also telling me that the potential for this is a $1 trillion market. And when you look and I mentioned the milk
market in the introduction, but we need to be talking about the dairy market, in particular, too, I have it on great authority from my sister,
actually, that your ice cream is amazing. It's around three percent of the global dairy industry, which I think is so important to understand when
we're talking about the growth potential.
Having said that, I look at the potential for Nom. I know that Nestle is now coming with their own milk alternative. You have a great product, which
I think people out there recognize, but you're also facing stiff competition from big brands. How do you handle that, Toni? How much of a
challenge is that?
PETERSSON: Yes, hey, I mean, we are competing as the biggest company out there in the world, right. And we've been doing that for many, many years,
and especially in Europe, but hey, you know what we are in this space, not just to have the product on shelf, in the category that is growing healthy.
We are in the space to make the world better, to make something that is designed for human beings, and better for the planet.
And that's the distinction between us and many of our competitors. That's the reason why we go to work, why we wake up, you know. That reason is so
articulated within our company and that is something we're determined to lead over time.
Julia, just look at the size that we have behind us, the things we do around our old fractions, old genome and the national mutations around
oats. The multiple clinical studies that we made and the research around agriculture, I mean, it's solid, and it's 25 to 30 years of experience
So we feel really, really good. And like you said, it's been a long journey here. But we've been persistent. We have been there. We never diverted from
our original idea and the reason for being as a company, you know, and that is a difference. It's a different mindset.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it is about the mindset. And there's also the debate out there about whether or not it's healthy. And I know you've actually got the
science behind lowering cholesterol as well, if you actually drink this drink.
Toni, just talk to me very quickly, because I have another question for you. And I want to ask it, and it refers to the Super Bowl. But talk to me
about the health aspect -- is it healthier than drinking ordinary milk? Cow's milk?
PETERSSON: Yes, it is. It is for sure. The way we designed this product was to look at the nutritional needs of human beings and not baby cows.
Now, that is really, really important. We didn't try to mimic cow's milk or any other animal dairy alternative. You know, we just tried to make the
best milk there is.
And if you look at the nutritional composition of oats, you just see that, you know, with the quality of fats, carbs and fiber and the dietary fibers
that you mentioned, you know, for heart health and the metabolic syndrome, it is all there in the product. So yes, it is for sure.
CHATTERLEY: Toni, you're not just the CEO of Oatly, you're also a singer, and I have to show my viewers who may not have been watching the Super
Bowl, just a little extract of the Super Bowl ad.
PETERSSON: I've got to live with that one forever.
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
CHATTERLEY: You also, I have to say, produced t shirts apologizing for that because some people -- some people didn't quite get it. Toni, talk me
about the PR of the brand about that because this actually says something about the brand and you.
PETERSSON: Absolutely. I mean, that's what we do. We're a bunch of people, helping other people. That's the way we look at our company, you know, and
those things that we do, we don't have a marketing department, but we have a bunch of creative people creating this distinct personal voice, doing
And that one, I mean, it's -- I don't know. I don't know how to remove that one. I took one for the team. It is there, but we did it, because it stands
out. And also we knew 100 percent that people, many people are not going to like it. So that's why we did those t-shirts just and during the Super
Bowl, if you tweeted that, "I hate that Oatly commercial." We actually delivered that during the Super Bowl. That's how we prepared, we went for
So that was actually really -- that was a lot of fun. And part of our work is to have fun, right. It's an important part of running a business.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And we're talking about it and it made you real. The CEO of Oatly, with a $10 billion business. Sir, congratulations. You have a
great team, though. I think. Toni Petersson, CEO of Oatly. Come back and talk to us soon. You have a great day.
PETERSSON: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Let's move on.
Coming up on FIRST MOVE, combating inequality by setting an example. You're going to meet King Randall. He is on a mission to see that boys and
teenagers away from violence and crime. His story inspired me and I hope it's going to inspire you, too. That's next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. It's a driving force in President Joe Biden nearly $2 trillion American Families Plan and that's education,
particularly given the evidence of widening inequality during the pandemic.
Well, one community activist is not waiting around, 21-year-old King Randall is the founder of The "X" for Boys. It is a youth organization in
Georgia teaching everything from literacy to car mechanics, skills they may struggle to acquire elsewhere. Just take a listen to some of their video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just grateful and I'm glad to my son got to change because in today's society we need this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: King taught him a bunch of trade skills. He's taught him things that he never thought that he would learn and being a single
mother, I thought that that was an asset especially with a young boy growing into adulthood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He taught me from my past. The program has set me to being myself to a better person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And King Randall is now opening a school and he joins us now. King, I am so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for making
KING RANDALL, ACTIVIST AND FOUNDER, THE "X" FOR BOYS: Thank you for having me. Absolutely.
CHATTERLEY: You are 21, but when you were 19 you just decided, you know what, I'm going to be a catalyst for change. What made you make this
RANDALL: Absolutely. Well, where I live in Albany, Georgia, our crime rate and our poverty rates are extremely high and considering the amount of
crime that our young men ages 11 to 17 as well as 17 to 25 were committing, I decided that I wanted to get up and start helping because every time
something happened in our community, everybody wants to have a meeting, but nobody wants to actually get into the community and work with these
children who are without fathers, as well as knowing that we don't have rehabilitation programs for juvenile offenders coming to jail.
RANDALL: So I'm seeing children going to jail and coming back. Plus, I saw a lot of my classmates -- I just graduated in 2017 -- some of my classmates
have been killed and some of my classmates are in jail for the rest of their lives for certain things, you know, that they've done, but it's all
because we need male figures in our communities to help our boys become better men.
CHATTERLEY: There's so much in there and I know you've been doing so much. You're trained as a chef, you're handy with a car. You decided to teach
these boys life skills. And one of the things that you and I have talked about off -- outside of the TV was that these kids that you were talking
to, 93 percent of them, they couldn't even read. They couldn't even begin to start helping themselves.
And you started a book club, just talk through some of the ways that you started to try and give these boys skills and how it worked.
RANDALL: Absolutely. Well, the first year of my summer camp, I ran a summer camp from my home. I had 20 boys come to my house every day. I
taught in my dining room on a small dry erase board with little to no money.
And while I was teaching, every day, we would read books, and I started realizing that the children were having many issues reading. And so I was
starting to ask them to read individually and some of the children couldn't even read simple, like cat and dog. And I'm asking them, how are you guys
in the sixth, seventh, ninth and 10th grade and you guys can't even read a simple book?
They couldn't read or write. This was about 12 out of the 20 children at first. And then I realized some of the others couldn't read as well. And
I'm just like, you guys are in 12th grade, 11th grade, and you guys read like you're in elementary school. This is absolutely ridiculous. And some
of them couldn't read or write at all.
So I started a book club to help our young men. We started reading books every week. Like every week, all through, I think it was August to December
of 2020 and of course during January, but then COVID happened, of course, in 2020 and we had to stop the book club. But we began a book club and we
had a -- we got an 86 percent reading comprehension rate because our children were starting to learn how to read. And they were starting to get
the get the idea of what they were reading, because sometimes children will sound out an entire book, they will sound out an entire sentence and never
comprehend what it is that they just read.
So actually getting out with the children and being consistent with them, and taking time out with them on a constant basis, we started to see the
development of our children here in the city of Albany.
CHATTERLEY: One of the other things that you teach and it sort of caught my attention was -- and you've touched on it -- the Science of Manhood.
King, what do you mean by that? What's the science of manhood? And I know you have powerful women around you. So it's not about the core attracting
from the powerful women, but it's the science of manhood. Explain?
RANDALL: Of course. Absolutely. Oh, well, I'm glad you said that about women because I have very powerful women in my corner.
CHATTERLEY: I know.
RANDALL: However, you know, the science of manhood for me, I was raised in the hood, per se, but we had four men in our community that helped us so
much to become the man that we are. I have my stepfather -- my former stepfather. He helped me so much. He taught me all these skill trades that
I know. He taught me how to grow my own food. He taught me how to be a protector of you know, the women and the children of the community.
Then we had a guy down the street, he and his son, they were -- they laid bricks, they taught us how to do cement, and they taught us how to lay
bricks and things like that. The guy across the street, he was a truck driver.
And I say all these things to say, all of the men in our community all helped mold me into who I am. And so growing up, I thought that all boys
had these things. But as I'm going around, and I'm teaching now, seeing as over 90 percent of the children that I deal with, have no fathers in the
home, and seeing how they're declining. I'm noticing that the science of manhood is extremely important because I learned that from other men in the
community, and there has to be men on to raise men in our communities and I think that's something we have to understand.
So now that these children are getting male figures in their lives, and actual good male figures in their lives, I think their lives are starting
to change for the better, because we have to understand boys will try and emulate the men that they are around whether that be good man or bad man.
And so we see an over influx of them running into bad men in the communities and they're turning into or trying to emulate those men in the
community that may be doing drugs, that may be in gangs, that may be doing criminal activity, and we'll say, oh, those children are criminals, et
cetera, but we don't understand what led to that point. They didn't have any fathers in their lives. And many of the children like I said, over 90
percent of the children that I deal with, do not have any fathers in the home.
CHATTERLEY: You know, I've looked at some of your coverage and you do at times get criticism for suggesting perhaps that the communities aren't that
strong in the African-American communities. You're saying like hang around for your families, protect those around you and your communities. And your
response to that and to that criticism?
RANDALL: Absolutely, well, I always say I teach -- I teach based off of my experience and what I experienced here in the City of Albany with our
RANDALL: So of course, we're going to get criticism, I don't think you're doing the good work if you're not getting any criticism.
However, I don't really have to respond to that, because our children are changing their lives. And that's something that bears witness. You can
disagree all you want to, but you can't dispute the results. Our results are proving with our program. And it's going to show that what we believe
is important is absolutely necessary, because these children are changing their lives.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And these are tough conversations. And actually, they have to be hard. And I do want to make the point as well and I want to talk
briefly about the school that you're now launching, because I'm sure you need funding help for this as well.
But this is not just about African-American children. This is about Latinx children. This is about white American children. This is about empowering
everybody. And I know you feel passionately about that.
Your environment just is predominantly African-American, but you're doing this for whoever needs your help. Talk to me about school.
RANDALL: Absolutely. Well, we'll be opening the New Life Preparatory School for Boys this fall. This will be an all-boys school. We will be
teaching the skill trades. We'll be teaching automotive repair. We'll be teaching construction. We'll be teaching -- we'll be doing different sports
as well. We won't just be doing football and basketball, we'll try to get the boys into professional gaming because there's money to be made playing
We're going to get them into professional billers, lacrosse, different sports that our children don't really get into because sometimes in the
African-American community, we will consider some sports to be white sports. And I want children to understand that you can go play sports, they
aren't just for white people, they are for you, too. You can go and play different sports.
But also, I want to foster an environment for children that think that they're worthless because that they're not -- they may not be academically
inclined. And I want children to understand --
CHATTERLEY: Oh, King, I've run out of time. I have to interrupt you. I'll tell you what, if anyone has the X-Factor, my friend, you do.
Come back and talk to us when it opens, please.
King Randall ...
CHATTERLEY: ... of The "X" for Boys. Great work, my friend. You are an inspiration.
RANDALL: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: And that's it for the show. Stay safe. "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is next.
We will see you tomorrow.