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First Move with Julia Chatterley
A Kaleidoscope Coalition in Israel Threatens to Oust the Prime Minister; AMC Shares Slump on New Supply, but still Up almost 100 Percent This Week; Cofounder of Indian Startup, BYJU'S Looking to Educate America. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 03, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE, and here is your need to know.
Netanyahu no more. A kaleidoscope coalition in Israel threatens to oust the Prime Minister.
Meme madness, AMC shares slump on new supply, but still up almost 100 percent this week.
And from Delhi to D.C., the cofounder of Indian startup, BYJU'S looking to educate America.
It's Thursday. Let's make a move.
A warm welcome to FIRST MOVE. Great to have you with us this Thursday as we enter what feels like a parallel universe with free beer on offer as
America attempts to "vax to the max," quote. Free popcorn on offer if you buy Cinemark stocks, and relax cannabis testing requirements give a whole
new spin to the term employee high-ring. High. Yes. I tried.
Speaking of highs, none of that lifting U.S. majors to higher highs, in fact, as you can see, futures are under pressure in the United States. We
will call it consolidation, I think and a bit of de-risking ahead of tomorrow's key U.S. jobs report.
New numbers before the bell show private employers adding a better than expected 978,000 new positions last month with big gains in leisure and in
the hospitality sector, too. It's not typically the ADP, a good indicator for Friday's jobs report, but we are hoping for stronger numbers after the
labor letdown we saw and the numbers back in April.
The lack of job creation at least on a relative basis remains an occupational oddity given the level of demand with critics saying, of
course, unemployment benefits are the big impediment here, and forces firms to offer generous incentives to lure those employees back. It's still going
to take time, I think, to get a clear read on what's going on for the economy. But in the meantime, we see an unsettled mood across Europe and
Asia, too, led by uneven recovery in economic data.
European services activity though rising to a three-year high. U.K. services growth hit a 24-year high as lockdowns eased there. Those
economies bouncing back clearly in the services sector.
Growth in China's services sector meanwhile slowing a little last month due to, yes, higher costs and weaker overseas demand. Services however, just to
give you some perspective, still expanding for a 13th straight month.
Okay. Let's get to the drivers. Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu criticizing a coalition agreement by opposition leaders. He is urging
supporters to oppose what he calls a dangerous left-wing government. Hadas Gold is live in Jerusalem for us.
Hadas, I am not quite sure how we get there given that the Prime Minister in waiting now is to the right of him politically. But it is a coalition,
it seems, united in their desire to see the Prime Minister ousted.
Talk us through what happens in the coming days and the what-next.
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's definitely -- history was made in the last 24 hours. Last night, 38 minutes before the deadline, Yair
Lapid, the centrist leader was able to inform the Israeli President that he had managed to form a coalition with a very diverse, it is the most diverse
coalition in Israeli history.
As you noted, it will be first led by the first Prime Minister, it will be Naftali Bennett of the Yamina Party, and he is actually a former Netanyahu
Chief of Staff described in some ways as even further right than Netanyahu himself on certain policies especially when it comes to West Bank
settlements, but the coalition will also include the far left, the Meretz Party, and in making history last night, this coalition will also include
an Arab-Israeli party, the United Arab List. This is the first time in Israeli history that an Arab-Israeli party has signed onto a coalition.
So just think about what kind of government this will be, what sort of coalition this will be. You have everybody from the far left to the far
right and an Arab-Israeli party all sitting together on the same government.
As you noted, it seems though not much may unite them other than the fact they want to see Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu out the door. So this
may be a fragile coalition to start. We'll have to see if they imagine to get a government, how they will be able to govern on substantive issues,
especially when it comes to things like relations to the Palestinians, if there will be any sort of advancement on those issues.
But they still have a hurdle to get over before they can actually be sworn in, and that is a confidence vote in the Knesset in the Israeli Parliament,
which should take place on or before June 14th. There is an effort actually now under way by these coalition parties to try and oust the current
Speaker of the Parliament because they believe that that Speaker might try to delay the vote and they want to get this vote through as soon as
GOLD: Because every day that goes by this vote is not taken gives Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu more time to try to twist the arms of Members
of Parliament, try to get them to drop out from this coalition and he only needs a handful to drop out to cause this coalition to crumble.
As you noted, he has already started this campaign. In a tweet earlier today, he said that all right-wing Knesset members must oppose what he is
calling a dangerous left-wing government. He has said that such a government would be a threat to Israeli security.
A little bit ironic, as you noted before considering who is going to be part of this coalition, including his former Chief of Staff, Naftali
Bennett will be the Prime Minister to start off with the part of a rotating leadership deal, and he on certain issues, is further right of Netanyahu.
But when it comes to Israeli politics, when it comes to Benjamin Netanyahu, you can never say never. And so we'll have to see what happens in the next
few days if he does manage to get a few of these members to drop out that could potentially cause this coalition to crumble and give Netanyahu a
lifeline to potentially stay in power.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Netanyahu not out yet. Hadas Gold, we will watch this space. Thank you so much for that update there.
Okay, the United States telling Russia stop the cyberattacks. Secretary of State, Tony Blinken telling CNN Espanol exclusively that Russia has an
obligation to stop attacks like those on the JBS meatpacking company, and the Colonial pipeline. JBS says all of its plants around the world should
be up and running again today.
Alex Marquardt has more on this from Washington. And Alex, just for our viewers very quickly. This for me was the killer question and answer from
yesterday with President Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Mr. President, will you retaliate against Russia for this latest ransomware attack?
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're looking closely at that issue.
QUESTION: Do you think Putin is testing you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: No. Alex, I mean, we can debate the politics here, but whichever way you try and look at it, infrastructure in the United States
and beyond is being tested with these cyberattacks, and unfortunately, it's failing.
MARQUARDT: Yes, Julia. I mean, that really says at all, the U.S. has not figured out how to stop Russia from carrying out these attacks, whether
it's from government hackers, like in the case of SolarWinds, or from criminal attackers, like in the case of the Colonial Pipeline recently, and
now JBS Foods, and oftentimes, you know, some of those lines are quite blurry.
The Biden administration has said that they have, after this most recent attack, they went to Moscow and essentially said, knock it off. One of the
things that the White House says that they're doing is to try to get together, to band together with other countries to hold countries like
Russia to account for harboring cyber criminals, like those who have carried out these two last major ransomware attacks here in the United
States, against critical infrastructure that have had a real impact and really crippled operations for these two companies.
And what we are hearing from the White House now is less about Russia, but more about how companies here in the United States and around the world can
protect themselves. The White House today has written a letter, an open letter to business leaders and corporate executives, calling on them to
fortify their defenses, to modernize their cybersecurity.
The Biden administration is saying we are doing all that we can, now we need you to step up and do what you can, you need to understand how
significant this threat is.
Anne Neuberger, who is the top cyber official at the National Security Council wrote this open letter. And this is part of it, she writes: "All
organizations must recognize that no company is safe from being targeted by ransomware regardless of size or location, we urge you to take ransomware
crime seriously and ensure your corporate cyber defenses match the threat."
Julia, a White House official told me that it's not just this recent spike in ransomware attacks that prompted this letter, but it's really a change
in tactics from one that was -- had been primarily about stealing data to one that is now you know, striking at these critical companies.
And this is an extremely lucrative industry as you and I have discussed for these criminals. In the case of JBS, yes, they may be up and almost at full
capacity today, they say. We still have not heard whether they have paid a ransom, like Colonial Pipeline did, more than $4 million to get their
operations, their systems back up and running. So that is that is a major burning question.
You know, it's very difficult for governments to tell companies, "don't pay these ransoms," when obviously the first priority for these companies is to
be able to operate -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: You raise so many great points. And one that I wanted to pull out there and I wasn't expecting to was what you said about data, because
ransomware now is a business. It's a huge business and it's a growing business and you don't even need to worry about the security of your data
now. All you have to do is tie it up for a while, ask for a ransom, and if it is critical infrastructure, as we've seen with the likes of the Colonial
Pipeline, people pay the ransom and we don't know in this case whether or not a ransom was paid, but I'll gives you a good guess.
MARQUARDT: Yes, I mean, for most of our audience, I think they hear about these stories, these major ransomware attacks and that was a great
reminder. I mean, this is a very simple operation, hackers essentially take over these systems, they tell the companies, all right, we're going to hold
on to this -- onto your systems, onto your data until you pay us X amount of money, and if you don't, we'll release it.
And so we hear about these attacks, generally, when it's huge, like Colonial Pipeline or JBS, which is one of the biggest food production
companies in the world. But Julia, this is happening every single day. It is happening across sectors. It is happening across the U.S. and all around
And it hits, you know, really, really, really critical parts of society -- hospitals, schools, and oftentimes, you know, the ransom is not paid. And
we see that data then released online. And, you know, when these ransoms are paid, obviously, that further incentivizes hackers to continue carrying
out these attacks.
It's a very complex problem for companies and for countries to try to figure out -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, at some point, we'll be asking whether our hospitals, our cities, our military, our government is vulnerable to these cyberattacks,
and then realize, hang on a second. They've all been targeted in the last 12 months and not just in the United States, but beyond and we didn't do
enough and it is accelerating.
Alex, great to have you with us. Thank you.
MARQUARDT: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Alex Marquardt there.
Okay, let's move on. The meme stock saga beginning to feel like it's worthy of the big screen in its own right, and the latest sequel is not
disappointing. The shares of movie theater chain, AMC, they are now plunging premarket after a stunning surge of more than 90 percent on
Paul La Monica is here. Paul, I'm already smiling, but it is actually not funny. Just tracking the timeline of what's happened over the last three
days, AMC issue shares, then they come out and make an outreach to retail investors, and now, they're issuing more shares.
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, it's a stunning drama obviously for AMC right now, but the stock is off its lows in premarket
trading, if not down as much as it was earlier and I think, you continue to have this battle between retail investors that are long with the stock,
they think that raising more capital through these stock sales will be a good thing and short sellers who are worried about the fundamentals.
And you know, AMC going up as much as it did yesterday inflicted a lot of pain on short sellers, I mean, billions of dollars lost by the shorts
because the stock nearly doubled. But this can't go on indefinitely. And you're starting to see some of the other Reddit loved stocks pulling back a
little bit as well.
GameStop and Bed, Bath and Beyond, interestingly, BlackBerry is still surging, though, so maybe the Wall Street Bets crowd has found a new
favorite chew toy here.
CHATTERLEY: I was looking at valuations actually, in premarket trading session this morning. At one point it was bigger than L Brands, it was
bigger than Viacom, it was bigger than United Airlines. I think it was actually bigger than half of the S&P 500 companies. And for a long term
investor, when your stock is doing so well, it makes sense to raise money if you want to invest in restructuring or whatever it is that you want to
do as a company.
For a short term investor here, this is not investing. What we're seeing here is not investing. This is something that you do in a casino and it
feels like gambling.
LA MONICA: Yes, this is, you know, putting all your money on one number at a roulette wheel. It clearly is very risky, and what worries me is that
there are so many people that when you read these Reddit boards and the fans how ravenous they are rabidly promoting AMC, the thing that strikes me
is that a lot of these people seem to think that this time is different.
And as someone who has been doing this for more than 25 years, every time you hear "this time is different" that means that no, it's exactly like the
Julia, water is still wet, the sky is still blue no matter what AMC longs want to say, there are going to be consequences for having a stock run up
this dramatically when the fundamentals are still poor. Are they going to improve as the economy reopens? Perhaps, but there's a lot of competition
in the movie theater business. AMC isn't the only company out there, but AMC is the only stock that's gone up to this ridiculous level.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, pass the free popcorn and just be a little bit careful because if you overheat popcorn, it explodes.
Paul La Monica, thank you so much for that.
Yes. Let me bring you up to speed with some of the other stories making headlines around the world.
The President of the Tokyo 2020 Olympics says it's impossible to postpone the Games again because of all the preparation. That's despite Japan's
Chief COVID-19 expert warning this week that holding the Games while coronavirus is still spreading is quote, "not normal."
CHATTERLEY: CNN's Selina Wang joins us now from Tokyo, not normal is probably the understatement of the week, but we will continue to talk about
this. At the same time, we've seen a whole swathe of volunteers that admittedly may not be needed, say, we're not volunteering for this.
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, exactly. We're seeing these conflicting narratives right now as the officials are pushing forward the
rhetoric that these games can be held safely, more and more concern from the medical community, including from the head of Japan's COVID-19 Task
And on top of that, you have the announcement that 10,000 out of 80,000 Olympic volunteers have quit. A big concern among these volunteers is the
lack of protection. I spoke to one Olympic volunteer who told me that she is worried about her own health, and that the only protection they've been
given is pretty much hand sanitizer, cloth masks and a pamphlet about social distancing measures.
They are also being asked to take public transportation between the Olympic venues and their homes. Take a listen to what she had to say here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA HOLTHUS, VOLUNTEER AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR, GERMAN INSTITUTE OF JAPANESE STUDIES: We are not being given neither testing nor a vaccine.
So, we have to go in and out of the bubble at all times.
WANG: Do you think the Olympics should be held this year?
HOLTHUS: No, no, absolutely, no. No. It's too dangerous, and I think it's absolutely the wrong message at a time when the world is suffering, at a
time when the virus is still going rampant in many countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WANG: So Julia, the big question is, how is it possible to have a safe Olympic bubble when you have these tens of thousands of untested,
unvaccinated volunteers traveling between their homes and these venues.
And at the same time, you have much of the Japanese population unprotected, just about three percent of the Japanese population has been fully
vaccinated. This pace is starting to slowly creep up, but it still lags far behind other developed countries when it comes to the vaccine rollout.
A big issue for Japan right now is the lack of medical staff to administer these vaccines. In earlier phases. The big issue for Japan was securing
enough supply, a bureaucratic system, as well as a slow vaccine approval process.
But the supply issue is no longer the problem. Now, it is the lack of manpower. But we are seeing these mass vaccination sites start to pop out
across the country. The government also says they're going to start vaccinations at workplaces and universities. But right now, only medical
workers and the elderly population are eligible.
The government has however, started also vaccinating Japan's Olympic athletes, which has drawn some criticism since they are jumping the line
ahead of those with underlying medical conditions.
There is no timeline as of now for when the rest of the adult population is going to be eligible, which is what is driving a lot of these concerns.
When I speak to Japanese people on the streets here, they say that they are fearful of how this Olympic could lead to further infection spreads across
the country and could hurt them and their health.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, significant worries and understandable, I think. Selina Wang in Tokyo there. Thank you for that.
Okay, the White House is expected to announce more details about its plan to share COVID vaccines worldwide. Sources tell CNN, the announcement could
come as early as today, and it will specify which countries will get the vaccines.
The U.S. has pledged 80 million doses from Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson.
President Biden also kicking off an ambitious national month of action quote "to get 70 percent of Americans fully or partially vaccinated by the
July 4th holiday."
President Biden promising all U.S. adults a free round of beer donated by Anheuser-Busch if the U.S. hits that goal. An estimated 51 percent of
Americans are at least partially vaccinated so far.
Okay, still ahead on FIRST MOVE, fashion designer Prabal Gurung joins us live to talk about the COVID crisis in his beloved Nepal.
And later, when vintage meets vogue, Etsy snaps up Gen Z favorite, Depop. We've got the CEO, stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE and to Nepal, where lockdown is being extended in the capital, Kathmandu and surrounding districts.
New international aid arrived this week as Nepal battles its latest COVID wave and daily cases are now decreasing, which is the good news, but this,
as the country denies reports of a new local variant, something backed up by the World Health Organization's office there.
Much to discuss and joining us now is renowned fashion designer, Prabal Gurung who is working to help get aid to Nepal.
It is fantastic to have you on the show, a huge privilege. And I know this is incredibly personal for you. Just explain why you're working so hard to
try and support the aid effort in Nepal.
PRABAL GURUNG, FASHION DESIGNER: Thank you, first of all, for having me here. You know, it's a humanitarian crisis what Nepal is going through and
what we all are going through. But what is happening in Nepal is not only the crisis there, but the complete invisibility of a country and its
You know, it's really funny that I live in America, and we are fighting with all of these Asian hate attack that's happening, we are constantly
having this conversation about invisibility. And right now, that's what Nepal is going through.
You know, sandwiched between the two giants, India and China, the cases that are like really rising there, it's -- you know, it's hovering around
40 percent and 8,000 daily cases, and yet, the attention from the world doesn't seem to be on the crisis there.
So, you know, I'm just trying to get people to care to bring attention to it, you know, and just like urging U.S. to be the moral leader that they've
always been, so that's why I'm here.
CHATTERLEY: And you grew up there. So this is incredibly personal, between Nepal and India, too. So you understand some of the challenges there. You
understand, also, the strength, I think if the people there and we are trying to help you shed some light on it, too, because no one should be
forgotten in this crisis.
Talk to me about what you're doing in terms of providing aid, getting oxygen supplies there, too, and how you ensure because this is a big thing
for people donating, how you ensure that you get the supplies to where they are needed?
GURUNG: Well, you know, I've been working with this team with Nepal Rising team, and what are we doing there? There have been a lot of like oxygen
concentrators, and you know, cylinders and medical supplies, and everything is -- we are working on the ground with the local people there.
And you know, the thing about Nepal that people often forget is unlike here in let's say, in the U.S. or in other parts of Europe and the U.K., people
are really willing to take the -- they're not anti-vaccine. They are willing to take the vaccine and there, again, the groundwork, the network
of the people that can reach to the remote places. It's pretty incredible.
So we are trying to -- you know, sometimes the government doesn't really live up to the expectations of the promise that they, you know, made to the
people so, we, as volunteers are working with the people on the ground, we've been trying to get as much supplies and everything and attention to
But the main goal right now, what we are trying to do with all the petition letters and everything is to really urge the U.S. and the rest of the world
to, you know, make sure that Nepal is not forgotten when they are distributing the vaccines.
You know, we are looking for 20 million as so we are very, very hopeful that, you know as President Biden announced is that there will be some kind
of like, you know, Nepal wouldn't be forgotten. That is our main goal. It is like, you know, often times when people don't even know where that is,
you know, I just wanted to make sure that we all are wanting to make sure that you know, this vaccine distribution, we are on top of the list as
CHATTERLEY: Nepal's voice is heard. You live in America, as an activist, as a philanthropist, how do you feel when you read that people are being
paid money or being paid in beer or there's a lottery going on in the United States to try and get people to take vaccines and to your point,
you're trying to just raise the flag and say, hey, there are other nations around the world that haven't got those supplies, perhaps can't even afford
them and we need them to go there, too. How does it feel?
GURUNG: Oh, it breaks my heart to be completely honest. I mean, like, it's very emotional, as you're saying that the heart factor, it's -- you know,
everyone says, you know, this pandemic is an equalizer, it really isn't. It is a mirror to the world, with the difference between the haves and the
have nots, and that is a hard fact, the invisibility also.
So when I hear all these people here in America, you know, like having to be enticed, or the rest of the world. And like, there are people dying --
there are people dying, left, right and center and not to be even care about that, and not even to be responsible.
Because getting vaccinated is not just -- you know, it is no longer a privilege, it is something that -- it is the right thing to do. So it
breaks my heart to be completely honest, it breaks my heart, because there are so many people dying to get it.
And in a country like Nepal, that is like majority of the population is willing to take it and do not have access to that, it is just
CHATTERLEY: I love your passion. Something else that you've used your platform for and your fashion prowess is -- and you've touched on it
already is anti-Asian crime. And you wrote an op-ed for CNN, which really resonated with me and you pointed out a time in your career where you were
told that you don't look American, and therefore, how can you define American culture?
You also talked about your mother and making her wear a wig to go outside because you were frightened that she might be harmed outside. How do we
make society more tolerant? Because I know this is something else that you're incredibly passionate about and is fighting for.
GURUNG: You know, the more stories from our community, the minorities and marginalized groups we get -- the world gets to hear, the more normalized
we become. The more empathetic we become, I think it's very important that our stories are told by us.
The platform, we can share the mic, a hero story, not just during Heritage Month, and not just doing like in a festival, but throughout the whole
year. Because I always keep on saying especially in fashion, also, you know, what have we been described like? What's chic? What's beautiful?
It is always coming from a Eurocentric colonial lens, we have to dismantle that, and you know, really examine that, and then insert our stories
whenever we are -- wherever our white counterparts are.
My goal here is not to exclude anyone, you know, because I have an incredible support system from my white friends and white mentors and they
are really interested in coming together. And they keep on asking me that and I always say, hear our stories, give us the platform.
We are building our own tables, right, but also give us a seat at the table to make those decisions. And you know, once you see the faces, once you
hear the thing and you know it, it becomes more normal, you feel empathetic, and I genuinely believe, I genuinely believe that there will be
less violence, you know, when it comes to that.
CHATTERLEY: We can only hope and keep spreading the word and doing what you do. I'm grateful to have you on the show and come back soon, because I
see it in your fashion and what you do there. So come back and talk to us about the business, hopefully better times.
GURUNG: Absolutely. Thank you, Julia. Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: Likewise. We will see you soon. Thank you.
And the market opens next, stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. markets are up and running this Thursday, the day before jobs day in the United States and a tough job
ahead for the Wall Street bulls, a continuation of yesterday's weakness despite some encouraging new employment data, almost one million private
sector positions added to the U.S. economy last month. A greater number than expected. Also jobless claims have fallen below 400,000 for the first
time since the pandemic, claims now down more than 30 percent since April, but it is a risk off day for some of the riskiest U.S. stocks.
AMC softer after its 100 percent popcorn pop on Wednesday, the cinema chain announcing plans to sell more than 11 million new shares. GameStop and
yesterday's big highflyer Bed Bath and Beyond are also losing some ground here, too.
The dollar though, meanwhile, holding steady against the Russian ruble, the Russian Foreign Minister announcing that the country will sell all dollar
assets and its wealth fund and invest in other assets like the Euro, instead. That is going to take some time. So that explains the lack of
reaction and we are talking years.
A further pop or should we say Depop for Etsy shares today after Wednesday's seven percent rise as investors cheer its acquisition of Depop.
Now just to explain, Depop is Gen Z powered fashion resale company with around 30 million registered users in over 150 countries.
Etsy, a marketplace for vintage and handmade products is expanding into the booming used clothing market targeting younger shoppers.
Joining us now Etsy CEO, Josh Silverman.
Josh, fantastic to have you on the show. It's not often actually the acquiring company has a share price reaction like that. So investors
clearly like it. Tell us what they think and see in this deal.
JOSH SILVERMAN, CEO, ETSY: Yes, well, I think they think and see what we do, which I think is a fantastic partnership. It's a marriage made in
heaven. We think that Depop is the most exciting company in the most exciting space in retail.
Resale is absolutely booming. It speaks to younger generation, and within the younger generation within Gen Z, Depop is their choice. And so we're
incredibly excited to partner with them. We think there's great synergies between the two businesses, and we think it's going to be a fantastic
CHATTERLEY: Marie Raga, who is the chief executive of Depop said that Etsy has made massive improvements in terms of search and discovery and that is
something that we can learn from just in terms of scaling their business.
What do you learn from -- or is it simply about that younger generation of customers, perhaps that could in future be Etsy users, if not immediately?
SILVERMAN: Getting a two-sided marketplace like Etsy or like Depop to scale is lightning in a bottle, it almost never happens. Once it happens,
that two-sided marketplace is incredibly valuable.
But there are many capabilities that these two sided marketplaces have in common. You need to make search and discovery work at scale. You need to
run a massive payments platform. You need to make trust and safety work at scale. You need member support, and on and on.
And so there's so much that we can share and learn from each other, and I think there is quite a lot of know-how that Etsy has that we can use to
help make Depop even stronger. And you know, a case in point is Reverb, that's another two-sided marketplace that Etsy acquired about 18 months
And even within 18 months, Etsy has helped Reverb to substantially increase their gross margins, then reinvest that profit into marketing and even more
efficiently to grow even faster. And it's that kind of opportunity that we see with Depop as well.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, when I look at some of the numbers, I mean, I mentioned them in the introduction, 30 million registered users, but in
2020, there were four million active buyers, two million active sellers.
Can you give us any sense of just what you're imagining in terms of bringing those numbers higher just to -- whether it's accessibility, as you
said, the payments, platform opportunity, just making it easier, quite frankly, for users to buy and sell?
SILVERMAN: Depop is still a very young company, and it's growing like crazy. So Depop grew about 100 percent in 2020, and it did that with almost
no marketing money.
So as you said, we have -- Depop has about two million sellers and four million buyers, and what's so exciting is that the sellers are very often
buyers. In fact, 75 percent of sellers are buyers, and many of the buyers are also sellers.
The engagement metrics on the platform are also really compelling. The average active user is on the app 40 times per month. So this is a really
sticky, highly engaged community. And if you talk to teenagers in your network, you're going to find that they know Depop and they love Depop.
But there is still so much room for growth. About a quarter of the global workforce is already Gen Z, these are people 26 years or younger and it is
projected that by 2030, there will be 1.3 billion members of Gen Z that are in the global workforce. So we think there's an enormous opportunity to
grow into scale,
CHATTERLEY: I get the opportunity. I also see big competition in this space for -- as a resale market, whether it's retailers like Walmart,
Nordstrom, Gap. They are all getting in on the action, because they're recognizing that geo point, Gen Z or Gen Zed because someone is going to
tell me off for sounding American.
They like the sustainability aspect of this. They like parts of this segment of this business. And to your point, it's going far quicker than
ordinary retail. How concerned are you by the competition? Some of these big well-known brand players getting into this space, too.
SILVERMAN: There is a lot of competition, and there's been a lot of competition , and yet, Depop is growing at phenomenal rates. Why? Because
they speak to Gen Z. They speak the language of Gen Z and they are an authentic organic brand.
And again, they are growing at these phenomenal rates with hardly any investment in marketing yet, because influencers and members of Gen Z
really believe in the brand. The other brands you mentioned are not brands that speak to Gen Z and feel really authentic. So that's what we love about
We think the management team and the entire employee base of Depop really understand Gen Z, and building a community around Gen Z is really unique
and really special, people come for the clothing, but they stay for the community.
CHATTERLEY: Talk about Etsy growth as well as we transition post pandemic, she says, fingers crossed because there was clearly a great deal of
interest, whether it was products or simply time spent on the platform during this period. How do you see that playing out in the coming months?
And I also saw that vaccination products are now hot in the same way that masks were in the beginning of the pandemic. Now, proving that you've had a
vaccine with apparel is cool. Talk to me about those two things, please.
SILVERMAN: The agility of the Etsy marketplace is really remarkable. And I think if we saw anything in 2020, we saw that the Etsy marketplace is
amazingly agile, whatever is a hot or front of mind for consumers, if you can imagine it, it is for sale on Etsy. So I've already been vaccinated,
kinds of gear, you're right, that's very hot in the moment as are for example, outdoor and gardening, merchandise and all of that kind of thing.
You know, when we look at the growth, what we projected for the second quarter is that at the midpoint of guidance, there would be about $3
billion of products button sold on Etsy in the second quarter of 2021. And when we look at the same quarter pre-pandemic, so 2Q 2019, we did about $1
billion of sales.
So Etsy comes through the pandemic about three times larger, that means millions more buyers who love Etsy and are coming back to Etsy and have
formed a habit around Etsy and millions more sellers.
The great thing about a two-sided marketplace is it gets better as it gets bigger. So we think we're extremely well positioned for continued growth.
CHATTERLEY: Josh, congratulations on the deal and come back and speak to us soon, please.
Josh Silverman, the CEO of Etsy there.
SILVERMAN: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Okay, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, making learning lifelong. India's leading online education platform expanding into
North America. We speak with the cofounder, next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. If you're joining us from India, you've probably heard of BYJU'S. It is a $15 billion startup online
learning platform used by around a hundred million people worldwide, including one in three students in India, according to the company.
BYJU'S has some notable backers including the Chan-Zuckerberg initiative, Naspers and Tiger Global. Well, now the company is expanding its presence
in North America with an investment of $1 billion over the next three years.
Joining us to discuss is Divya Gokulnath. She is cofounder of BYJU'S and she is joining us now from Bangalore, India.
Divya, fantastic to have you on the show. I am so excited.
We'll talk about the investment in North America. But I just wanted to take a step back and have you explain what it is that you're doing in India and
why it resonates with so many students there.
DIVYA GOKULNATH, COFOUNDER, BYJU'S: So, I think always we've been on a mission to help students learn better, to fall in love with learning. Even
when we started doing what we did, we knew that we needed to create an impact in the way students learn when they learn concepts for the first
time. And that was the vision behind creating what we created.
Now, in the last five years, we've seen a hundred million students use it, especially so in the last one year when schools shut down. And just to give
you the numbers, right, in the first four years since we launched the app, there were 45 million students on the platform. But just in the last 13
months, you can see, there were 55 million more.
This actually shows how online learning has been put in the spotlight, how people are students, all stakeholders are slowly realizing the importance
of online learning, how it helps them learn better.
So we enable students to become self-learners, learners driven by not just the fear, not by the fear of exams, but by the love for learning. And
that's been the thinking behind every product that we've created, and this is the same thing that we want to do as we expand globally. We want to
continue to impact many, many more learners and that's been our mission.
CHATTERLEY: Is it like a one-stop shop? Or is it a supplement to what you can learn in school, for example, because as you point out, everybody, I
think has had a crash course in trying to study online from home and some of the concerns have been people getting disengaged, too many portals to go
to, to try and find which subject I'm studying.
How have you made all that simple in order to keep students engaged and willing to be lifelong learners?
GOKULNATH: Yes, so it is complimentary to the school system. So this is the time when a student learns on their own at home that the product comes
in. Now, that being said, you're absolutely right about you know, especially now all the kids are very digitally savvy, and there are so many
And you can get distracted very easily, that is where the kind of format of online learning becomes important. So it's not just about taking offline
learning online. That's not online learning.
Online learning is about giving the content in the right kind of format, in a very engaging format so that students enjoy while they learn, so that
they remain engaged. And our numbers show that students love learning. You know, so the engagement was up to a hundred minutes per session on the app,
especially during the pandemic.
And it's -- if I have to use an analogy, it is almost like, how do you give them -- how do you introduce them to the chocolate coating before giving
them the broccoli, right?
So it's about how can you make them enjoy they do so that they continue doing it and once they start enjoying it, they become self-learners. They
know that they need to turn here.
GOKULNATH: Now, that being said, Julia, you rightly pointed out about you know, the last one year has introduced us to online learning, but I don't
think the future of learning is going to be completely online because there are so many skills, which can be only taught in an offline world like,
especially for the K to 12 segment where children are growing up, where an all-around development is very important. Where there is an importance of
social skills like empathy, team building skills, all of this can only be learned offline.
But there are subjects like Math and Science, because of the use of technology, because I am a teacher, myself, technology has made me a better
teacher, a student can actually learn better, even better online, a few subjects.
CHATTERLEY: You know, the chocolate in everything that you just said there for me was the idea that online learning isn't just taking offline learning
and sticking it on a computer, because that's simply not going to work. It has to be complimentary in some way and adapted to keep people engaged. I
Okay, talk to me about the United States. What difference do you think you can make in the United States, and perhaps that isn't already being done by
online education companies in the United States already, because I can think of a couple.
GOKULNATH: Yes, so as we expand into the United States, we are looking at growing both organically and inorganically, that is where the investment
actually matters, where we are going to be looking at companies which are a product fit, and also help us in the content distribution.
So we're looking at other routes, and one example of a company that we've actually acquired is Osmo, and it has been very complimentary. It's not --
and I would not like to call them acquisitions, I would like to call them integrations, because the team is a great fit, the product is a great fit,
and what comes out is something even better for students to learn from.
Just to give you an example, when we acquired Osmo, they've scaled 4x, and I don't think we should take credit for it, it is just that the team has
been fantastic and we have complemented each other and that's what we were looking for, as we forward when we look at some fantastic companies to work
with, where we integrate the leadership, where we integrate the products and come out with a much better offering.
So there are two ways to look at it. Right? You can also say that, okay, look, we know everything. But the fact is, there are certain things that we
are good at and there are certain things that we can adapt to we can, we can do better if we have the right kind of product with us, the right kind
of team with us, and as we grow, that's the plan.
So the aspiration is to continue to create, you know, self-motivated learners, the students who love learning, wherever and whichever part of
the world we go to, and that is true to America as well.
CHATTERLEY: You know, I got so excited in this conversation, I didn't ask you the most important question, which was cost. And we have about 20
seconds. Divya, can you tell me about the cost in about 20 seconds? How expensive is it to do these courses?
GOKULNATH: So it costs about $150.00 for you to do these courses. So we have two models. One is the asynchronous model, which is our flagship
learning app, which is used by a hundred million students in India. The other one is a synchronous learning model. And I'm very excited about that,
because there, we are enabling 11,000 plus women teachers to teach from the comfort of their home. So we're using a very unemployed and underemployed
group of people because -- and the statistics show that even though half our graduates are women, only 23 percent of them are actually in the
So these women are actually taking education from India to the world, and I strongly believe the golden age of teaching is coming back.
CHATTERLEY: Awesome. It was the longest 20 seconds ever, but it was all worth it. Come back because I have plenty more questions. And I love what
Divya, fantastic to speak to you, cofounder of BYJU'S there. Good luck with the expansion.
More next. Thank you.
GOKULNATH: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. The vast majority of people who live in South Africa are black. Yet Isuzu Motors in South Africa only
recently named its first black CEO and Managing Director. CNN's Eleni Giokos talked with Billy Tom about what it means to be first and what
Africans are equipped to bring to the auto components industry.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN BUSINESS AFRICA CORRESPONDENT: You have been in the job for now almost a year as CEO. And what is also shocking is that you're the
first black person to hold this executive role of an international OEM in Africa. Why do you think it's taken this long?
BILLY TOM, CEO AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, ISUZU MOTORS, SOUTH AFRICA: Well firstly to answer your question, I think the challenge I have myself
enough, I'm always keeping myself honest, is to say, being the first black CEO, you become the poster child for this, but what poster child do you
want to be? Because you also want to create and position yourself so that people become more aspirational in moving and you know, fulfilling the
roles going forward.
GIOKOS: South Africa has had over a hundred years in experiencing, you know, with assembly and then eventually the component industry started
growing. But how do we speed that up now today in the African context?
TOM: You can't just treat South Africa as one count, you've got to look at the economic clusters, you've got SADC where South Africa operates. You've
got East Africa, you've got West Africa. Your approach needs to be by economic cluster where you go into the economic cluster, do a lot of
developmental work, and then grow your scale.
GIOKOS: What is the starting point when you're going into such a new territory, with the automotive sector starting from zero?
TOM: You need to build scale fist. So what you do is you start with selling knockdown, which is a light assembly. The scale is very important,
because what you want to avoid is to have to build factories and a few years down the line, you close them because there's no demand.
So you want to build scale, ensure that the numbers increase. It's critical that we pass our learnings because my view is Africans need to dictate the
pace of Africa.
CHATTERLEY: The fur has really been flying for Dogecoin investors this week, Dogecoin steady amid a broader risk of market environment, but it was
a crypto Romeo yesterday soaring 25 percent, as Coinbase expands its Dogecoin offerings. Clare Sebastian joins me now.
Forget howling at the moon, Dogecoin -- I'm going to get it wrong -- going to the moon. That was not investment advice, by the way, despite my
stumbling, talk us through what happened yesterday. And the difference between Coinbase and Coinbase Pro because that feels important here, too.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia, so this is big news for Dogecoin investors. It started the week around 29 cents, it went
up to about 43 cents on the news of its inclusion in Coinbase Pro. It's now back around 40 cents, but still significant gain on the week.
Now inclusion in Coinbase, and in particular Coinbase Pro lends it some legitimate legitimacy. Obviously, this is one of the main crypto trading
platforms, the difference between Coinbase and Coinbase Pro, well, Coinbase Pro is really aimed at sort of more advanced, experienced investors, it's a
different interface. It looks more terminal like. It is also free to join.
But it is slightly different in terms of more complicated trades that are offered and things like the advanced charting tools and all those kinds of
things slightly sort of less user friendly, perhaps than Coinbase.
But this is part of Coinbase's mission. The CEO has said that adding more and more assets is really part of their vision for the future. His first
question on Coinbase's first earnings call back in May was, when was Doge going to be added? And he said at the time that it would take six to eight
weeks, but it was part of their plans. It's been exactly four weeks. So it's an exciting day, Julia, for Dogecoin investors.
CHATTERLEY: They were working like dogs in order to do that, as we can imagine, just to do it a shorter timeframe. So what did the Doge father,
Elon Musk have to say about this? Because I'm sure he waited, too.
SEBASTIAN: Oh, plenty. Yes. Yes. He has had several interesting tweets. One was -- he sort of retweeted something that he tweeted in the past few
months about Dogecoin, which is a meme showing a sort of cloud with the Shiba Inu dog in it approaching a city labeled the global financial system
as sort of symbolizing Dogecoin's takeover. He labeled that with the caption, "It's inevitable."
SEBASTIAN: Another tweet, Julia which I know that you're keen to talk about is one of him. He said, "This is a picture I found of me as a child,"
where he showed the same dog sitting in front of a sort of old-fashioned computer screen with cassette tapes lying around.
So, he is sort of clearly, sort of still, you know, keen on the narrative that Dogecoin is sort of the underdog of the crypto world, and it has the
potential to become a really big deal, and he continues to put his backing behind it; that in part contributed to the rally that we saw this week.
CHATTERLEY: I have no words. I loved the caption on there. That definitely did resonate with me, this idea that you have to keep your passion under
wraps, otherwise you will be socially ostracized.
I mean, I feel like that all the time, every time I open my mouth quite frankly. It is always -- you have to be careful.
Clare Sebastian, thank you so much for that, my crypto queen.
That's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. You can search for
As always, in the meantime, stay safe.
"Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is next, and I'll see you tomorrow.