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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Energy Emergency from Beijing to Brussels, Governments Face a Winter Fuel Crunch; Taiwan President Tsai Says They won't Bow to Chinese Pressure; "Star Trek's" William Shatner Prepares for Blast Off. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired October 11, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need-to-know.
Energy emergency from Beijing to Brussels. Governments face a winter fuel crunch.
Taiwan tensions. President Tsai says they won't bow to Chinese pressure.
And boldly going. "Star Trek's" William Shatner prepares for blast off.
It's Monday. Let's make a move.
A warm welcome to FIRST MOVE as we buckle up for another busy week ahead. As I mentioned, "Star Trek's" William Shatner is heading for the final
frontier -- anything is possible on this show. It's Freedom Day in Sydney as COVID restrictions disappear. And on Wall Street, earnings season kicks
into gear, but will corporate earnings reports allay the inflation fear? I fear not.
For now, on Wall Street, we're looking at a softer open following last week's gains with tech. The NASDAQ, as you can see there, about to fall
around one percent, not exactly going into warp speed in Europe either. Energy costs, of course remain the major story for markets and consumers
and for business.
Brent, beginning the week at $84.00 a barrel. U.S. crude hitting seven-year highs, too. Natural gas prices, as you can see, a touch softer there, but
we are still sitting at highs not seen for over a decade.
China remains a key catalyst again this Monday with coal futures hitting record highs. Severe flooding in the north of the country has limited
mining output there sparking fresh concerns of power shortages. And that's not the only story in China though. We saw a big relief rally in Chinese
tech stocks in Monday's session, too.
Food delivery giant, Meituan among them, soaring eight percent after receiving a relatively mild antitrust fine from Beijing authorities. Rumor
has it the tech crackdown may be easing and that would be a welcome relief, of course, since China's energy crisis is intensifying.
Let's get to the drivers. Heavy rain in northern China has shuttered over 60 coal mines just as the government is looking to boost production. On
Friday, Beijing ordered mines to increase output as it tries to end crippling power shortages. Coal, of course generates 60 percent of the
energy consumed across China.
Selina Wang joins me now and has been looking at all the details on this. And Selina, great to have you with us. As I mentioned the Chinese
government trying to ramp up production at the same time as bad weather limiting production. Do we know what the net result is? Does it mean less
supply? Or are they going to manage more, at least in the short term?
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the timing absolutely could not be worse here, Julia. This intensifies the power crunch and complicates
Beijing's efforts to ease this energy shortage. This flooding has caused the evacuation of more than 120,000 people. It has caused about 60 coal
mines to be closed down in Shanxi Province, which accounts for about a quarter of China's coal production, and this then offsets as you say, some
of the steps China has just taken to ease this issue.
Just last week, they had ordered 72 coal mines to boost production by about 100 million metric tons. And that accounts for about 30 percent of China's
monthly coal production, but it is unclear, Julia, how fast this output can increase at a time when this power shortage is spreading to most of the
It has forced governments to ration electricity for some factories to shut down, also disrupting people's daily lives. Some cities have dealt with
these total blackouts.
And this energy crisis, Julia, in China and in other parts of the world is just another highlight of how hard it is for the world to cut its reliance
on fossil fuels at a time when world leaders are trying to tackle climate change.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, particularly if you're pushing to more renewables without a plan to transition accurately as we've discussed now, in the past.
I saw on Friday that the central government is now allowing coal-powered electricity plants to increase the prices that they're charging by some 20
percent. I mean, that is a huge jump, but they've got to balance all the priorities here and what else are they doing to try and ease this crunch?
And are they going far enough? What was the sense there?
WANG: Yes, Julia. In addition to trying to get more coal mines to boost this output, you've also got this change in regulations and allowing these
coal-fired electricity plants to increase prices by as much as 20 percent for what they charge for power is a big deal because electricity prices in
China are regulated.
So when coal prices rose, many of these power companies were losing money because they couldn't simply raise the prices. So, this should help to
alleviate the pressure somewhat. But many analysts including Citi are still saying that this energy crunch is going to continue and it could require a
12 percent cut in industrial power use in the fourth quarter.
And the question, of course, here is how big the ripple effect is going to be on global supply chains for the global consumer? And of course, how much
worse this is going to get for the Chinese consumer?
According to local reports in the City of Yiwu, factories there have been dealing with these widespread power cuts. This is a major deal because Yiwu
has the world's largest wholesale market for toys, electronics, and many, many other goods and this could really dampen China's annual shopping
bonanza with their annual Singles Day in November, which brings in tens of billions of dollars for Chinese retailers. So we just have to wait and see
how bad this is going to get for people's daily lives -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and this applies to the rest of the world. It has a ripple effect all around the world as well, for many reasons there, not
just the energy costs, but also the output of the products, too.
Selina Wang, thank you so much for that.
Now, it's a global concern. Europe's natural gas crisis intensifying, while in the U.K., businesses are pleading for government help as power prices
soar. Some energy suppliers have already folded hit by rising costs while the European Commission is set to release their response plan on Wednesday.
Anna Stewart joins me now. Anna, it's interesting, the U.K. example because to some degree, the regulators there limit the price increases that can be
passed on to consumers. But for businesses, it's a different story, and I think the contrast between what we're seeing from U.K. business and the
support provided to European business is stark.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: It is stark, and that's very much the argument we're getting today from multiple sectors, as we're getting really a flood
of statements from multiple sectors, whether it's steel, or ceramics, or glass, all calling for the U.K. government to do more to help.
Yes, these big industrial groups do tend to hedge, they buy gas contracts long term. But you know what, there comes a point, when all that hedging
doesn't really help, they need to secure more gas on the markets. And they could be paying up to eight times more than they were last year.
That doesn't just reduce profits, that wipes it out, that means they could be operating at a loss. And the big risk here, according for instance, to
U.K. Steel is that some plants will have to slow down production or cut altogether. And the consequences of that really can't be underestimated.
We're not just talking about that one company and the workforce, we're talking about the supply chain. The fact there will be less steel going
into the supply chains for other businesses, and also the knock-on effects. We saw just last month when an American fertilizer company decided to
suspend production of just two plants in the U.K., it had huge implications for, for instance, the food and drink sector, which relies on its byproduct
In that example, we saw the U.K. Government step in with temporary financial aid, and actually today, they said they're actually going to buy
the CO2 that that plant produces. But what are they going to do on this much bigger scale, when we're seeing businesses across multiple sectors
warning the U.K. government, they might not be able to keep producing as much as they are. Gas prices are too high. U.K. Steel points out other
governments, as you said, are doing more. So, it's time really to see what the Business Secretary has up his sleeve -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And quickly, particularly if the E.U. is going to announce their own plan on Wednesday and further draw that comparison, I
think between action and some degree of inaction at this stage.
Anna, we shall reconvene on this note on Wednesday ahead of that report. Thank you so much. For your update there, Anna Stewart.
And the E.U. Industry Commissioner is the latest official to reject claims that Poland may exit the European Union. It follows a weekend of protests
against what's being called Polexit.
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
CHATTERLEY: Massive crowds rallied in support of the E.U. amid fears Poland could eventually split with the bloc. Fred Pleitgen joins me now.
Huge protests in all across the country, Fred and I know the Prime Minister has come forward and said, look, this is not part of our agenda. But as
Brexit proves, accidents or otherwise can happen.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that's one of the things that international observers are looking at as
well, as that, of course, not many people thought that Brexit would actually happen. But you do have a situation in Poland right now, where the
country is deeply divided and where you do see the Polish government, the very conservative government at odds with the European Union on really a
flurry of topic.
If you look for instance, at freedom of the press and some of the things that have been done with media in Poland, also the justice system, many
people saying that it's essentially been brought under the control of the government and then that verdict by the Constitutional Court essentially
challenging the primacy of European law.
PLEITGEN: And the opposition does say that they do fear that the ultimate goal of the conservative government is to try and get Poland out of the
European Union. And really, when you look at the protests, Julia, it's so interesting to see where they happen and where that turnout was so large.
obviously, you have big cities like Warsaw, you have Gdansk, you have Poznan, you have Szczecin, all of them very big cities, and many of them
sort of more towards the west of Poland that really shows some of the divisions that you see in that country.
It's one of cities versus the rural population, which of course, is a lot more conservative, and then Eastern Poland and Western Poland, as well.
Now, you're absolutely right to say the government has said --
CHATTERLEY: Oh, we appear to have lost Fred there mid-flow. We'll just see if we can get him back. No, I think, he's gone. Oh, well. Yes, apologies
But as you saw, he was giving us a sense there of the support for remaining in the E.U., and of course that was what's led to the protests over the
All right, let's move on. Taiwan's President has vowed the island will not bow to Chinese pressure calling out China in a fiery speech on Taiwan's
National Day on Sunday. The comments came just after President Xi Jinping called for reunification with Taiwan on Saturday.
Will Ripley joins us with the details now from Taipei. Will, always great to have you with us. Obviously, the message there was, look, we're not
going to have any kind of altercation or violence, but the war of words between the two nations pretty clear here.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Even that word reunification, Julia, they say here in Taiwan, what do you mean we're
unified? We were never unified. The People's Republic of China, Beijing, hasn't ruled this self-governing islands since the end of China's Civil War
for more than 70 years. They've had their own government, but it's a government that Beijing does not acknowledge.
And the United States has this unofficial, but very close and deepening relationship with the leaders here in Taiwan. One of the things that's
increasing significantly and it has been since the Trump years is arm sales. Are these moves potentially provoking Beijing?
RIPLEY (voice over): Taiwan's growing Arsenal on full display at this weekend's National Day Parade to defend against a growing threat from
China. This small island is spending big on weapons, many made in the U.S.A.
F16 fighters, patriot missiles -- $5 billion in U.S. weapons sold to Taiwan last year. Taiwan arm sales skyrocketed during the Trump years. The former
President's hardline stance against China, one of the few Trump era policies embraced by President Joe Biden. Defending Taiwan's democracy
against authoritarian China has rare bipartisan support.
Some worry Washington politics may be provoking Beijing, even pushing Taiwan and the U.S. into dangerous territory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you do take steps to look like you are aggressively defending Taiwan, then you arguably put them in a more
vulnerable position, you arguably again irritate China.
RIPLEY (voice over): Taiwanese president Tsai Ing-wen says the island is on the front lines of a much bigger battle.
TSAI ING-WEN, TAIWANESE PRESIDENT (through translator): Free and democratic countries have been alerted to the expansion of authoritarianism
and Taiwan is on the forefront of the defense line of fellow democracies.
RIPLEY (voice over): China set a record 150 warplanes near Taiwan in just five days this month. Biden's balancing act, calming prostrate tensions,
defending democracy, and preventing a conflict that could cost American lives.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've spoken with Xi about Taiwan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think Taiwan really presents a challenge to any American presidential administration because you're trying to balance
RIPLEY (on camera): This is an extraordinary site. Four kinds of domestically produced missiles rolling through the capital in front of
Taiwan's Presidential Palace, an ominous sign of escalating regional tensions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We cannot control whether or not the Chinese Communist Party has the ability to attack Taiwan, but we are
able to control and make sure it does not have the motivation to do so.
RIPLEY (voice over): Every Chinese leader since Mao has vowed to take control of Taiwan. Analysts say President Xi Jinping may be the first with
a military mighty enough to do it, even as he calls for peaceful reunification.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Whoever wins Taiwan wins the world.
RIPLEY (voice over): China is locked in territorial disputes across the Indo Pacific region. Taiwan, Beijing's biggest unresolved issue, and some
say, Biden's biggest test.
RIPLEY (on camera): And not just a test for the U.S. President, but also for Japan, which is now deploying missiles and troops to its outlying
islands that are within a hundred miles of Taiwan. Australia through the office partnership will start to equip its Navy with nuclear submarines.
The military dynamics of the region are changing as the People's Liberation Army moves in, you know, and expands into the South China Sea, and for the
first time really offers a credible threat to U.S. naval and military supremacy in the Indo Pacific region, Julia.
So, I think the concern being that if these U.S. allies don't band together now to protect Taiwan and something were to happen and Taiwan would lose
its democracy, then what other small places could be next?
CHATTERLEY: Will, it's so interesting, and this is actually quite fascinating, the comments in that piece. A few things, the balancing of
competing interests, and you could spin that so many ways, whether it's your point, the security, the National Security interest, the political
interest, and we've seen the relationship particularly between the U.S. and China under so much pressure in recent years, but also now I think, and
it's come to the fore the economic interests.
CHATTERLEY: And the gentleman there that said, whoever wins Taiwan wins the world, they certainly win the world for semiconductors, which has
created a slowdown everywhere in the world. And of course, Taiwan is the biggest producer of them, and I think if it did come down to the money, the
economic interests in protecting Taiwan, we cannot avoid a discussion about this.
RIPLEY: You read my mind, because I was thinking we could do a whole separate piece about not just semiconductors, but Taiwan's position, the
first island chain, I mean, strategically, geographically, if China were to take Taiwan, yes, they'd have TSMC, the world's biggest semiconductor
They also could place missiles within a hundred miles of Japan -- Japanese territory, which is something that Japan, you know, which is technically
still has a pacifist Constitution, but it has been slowly building up its defense forces. You know, it simply would not accept.
So it's easy to see how a conflict over Taiwan could bring in the United States, could bring in Japan, bring in other countries and really blow up
into something that would be economically disastrous for all of the stakeholders involved.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I couldn't have said it better myself. Will, thank you. Great to have you with us as always. Will Ripley in Taipei there.
Okay, let me bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories making headlines around the world.
Sydney is emerging from four months of strict lockdown. Fully vaccinated, residents of Australia's biggest city can now finally visit pubs,
restaurants, and shops, and reunite with loved ones.
Angus Watson has the latest.
ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER: Joy, relief, and some apprehension in Sydney, Australia, the country's largest city coming out of lockdown after 106 days
on Monday. People are allowed to visit family and friends at their homes, go out for a meal at a restaurant, a drink at a bar, go to the gym or get a
haircut, for the first time since June when an outbreak of the delta variant of coronavirus set in and forced the city into lockdown.
That began with just one case, some months later, over 60,000 cases and over 300 deaths, but as those cases have risen, so has the City and the
State of New South Wales's vaccination rate.
Now, Sydney is able to open on Monday because it's achieved this goal of 70 percent of the adult population fully vaccinated. That means people are
going out with more confidence now. Yes, there is concern about cases increasing, about pressure on the hospital system, but people who are
vaccinated are now able to enjoy some freedoms and be confident in doing so.
We were at a pub earlier in Central Sydney, the Angel Hotel, which was giving out free beers to celebrate the end of the lockdown. The Publican
said that that high vaccination rate is giving him the confidence to keep his doors open.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: think we're lucky that Australia has actually got a higher vaccination base than what the U.K. does at the minute, which has
been great. People have been jumping on it, which is excellent for us. We're going to hit 80 percent next week, which is really good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pub is way better than drinking in your in house. A hundred and six days in my house is nothing compared to the pub.
WATSON (on camera): celebrations going on in Sydney there, the next step will be for other locked down Australian cities to follow like Canberra,
the capital of the country, and Melbourne, Victoria still locked down, still with coronavirus in the community. That's very different to many
other places in Australia who are living without the virus. They've closed off their borders to the states that do have it.
The next step for Australia will be for vaccination rates across the country to catch up to one another. That's the first step. The next step
will be for international borders to open.
Angus Watson, Sydney, Australia.
CHATTERLEY: A source close to Prince Andrew tells CNN it's no surprise the British Police have confirmed that they will take no further action after
conducting a review sparked by a Jeffrey Epstein accuser. One alleged victim has filed a civil lawsuit in the United States accusing the Prince
of sexual assault.
CHATTERLEY: Prince Andrew has always denied the accusations.
Three economists working at American universities have just won the Nobel Prize in Economics. David Card, Joshua Angrist, and Guido Imbens share the
prize. The committee says their research improved our ability to answer key causal questions that have greatly benefited society.
Okay, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, life in the fast lane. We meet the company that says it can fully charge any electric vehicle in 15 minutes.
And Colombia's President says debt rules mean he can either tackle COVID or the climate crisis, but not both, and he joins us shortly. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. stocks under pressure as we begin a new trading week. Bond markets in the United States are closed for
a holiday, but no holiday from the inflationary pressures building worldwide due to rising energy prices and power shortages.
Morgan Stanley warning we could see a hit to profits this earning season as companies wrestle with supply chain issues and higher inflation due in part
to that jump in energy costs. Goldman Sachs meanwhile trimming their U.S. growth forecast for this year and for the next, too, for similar reasons.
In the meantime, Merck set to open around one percent higher. The company is officially asking U.S. regulators to okay its antiviral drug to fight
COVID. The pill has been shown to decrease mild to moderate symptoms of the disease. A U.S. decision to approve the medication for emergency use could
come within weeks.
Now, as gas prices surge, a new EV charger is hitting the market promising a full battery charge for any electric car in just 15 minutes. It comes
from the engineering giant ABB, best known for innovative robotics and industrial automation. You'll start to see the new chargers at gas stations
and stores over the next few months.
ABB is calling it a breakthrough moment for the auto industry at a critical time. Bjorn Rosengren is the CEO of ABB, and he joins us now.
Sir, fantastic to have you on the show as always. Whenever we talk about climate targets and electric vehicles, the missing piece of the jigsaw
puzzle always seems to be the charging infrastructure. Is this the game changer we need?
BJORN ROSENGREN, CEO, ABB: Yes. Good morning. Thank you for having me on the show. I think this is a good step in the right direction. We know
timing -- time is crucial for many car owners, and I think this is definitely one step in the right direction.
CHATTERLEY: So it's not just about the fact that you can charge a car in 15 minutes, I believe that technology allows four cars to be charged all at
the same time.
ROSENGREN: Yes, it's correct. You can -- you know, you can either charge one car extremely fast, or you can charge four cars at the same time. So
yes, it's very flexible as a charger, yes.
CHATTERLEY: Oh, so if you have four cars charging at once, it slows down the charge time. What's the charge time, if there's four people trying to
charge all at the same time?
ROSENGREN: I would be a fourth of the time. So actually, it's the power that you put in, and it's a 360 kilowatt. So, if you have four cars, it's
actually 360 divided in four. So, that's about the time.
CHATTERLEY: I can do the math.
ROSENGREN: I think it is -- the important thing is that, yes -- but anyway, I think it is normal to say that these high-speed charging at
certain circumstances, for instance, when you're traveling far, and you need to do fast charging is a good time. But I would -- the majority of the
time, you do slower charging.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. So the majority of the time, it will probably take an hour, assuming that you've got the four cars all using this.
ROSENGREN: Yes, I mean, normally you put it in the garage when you come home, and you connect the car, or you're at work and do it or when you go
shopping. And at that time, it's not so crucial.
But I think we all feel when we're driving on the motorway and we need to get to a certain place, and I think this is real crucial and many car
owners feels that this is important than just the time there makes a difference.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. That's the impediment, I think, the broader impediment to purchasing is that look, if you want to travel somewhere, if you're going
to have to stop to charge and it's going to take a long time, add significant amount of time to your journey.
So I actually think it's crucial versus being able to charge at home. And you do see these being used in a commercial sense, as I mentioned in petrol
or gas stations, wherever you are in the world. What's the cost of one of these?
ROSENGREN: About -- you mean the cost for a charger? I think that depends in the different markets. And I think it will be normally some of these big
companies that are building out the infrastructure, and then you connect yourself with an iPhone or some other device, and then you charge per
kilowatt hour that you are actually using.
But it's normally significantly lower than any kind of fossil fuels.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And I think -- I thought that would be the response. It's going to be available, yes, across Europe by the end of this year. And then
you're going to make this technology available in Asia and in the United States, I believe in 2022. Is that correct?
ROSENGREN: That is correct. Today, we are -- you know, we're a leader. We are in many countries, like 88 countries around the world. So, U.S. is one
of our most important markets. U.S. is building out the infrastructure. I think this is crucial for that market, and we are really looking forward to
an exciting time in the U.S. market.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and obviously, critical to this is going to be how quickly you can ramp up production of these and I think it perhaps ties to
potential flotation of this part of the business as well, I'm assuming to help raise capital. Can you give us any sense of manufacturing targets and
obviously, timing on a potential IPO? And obviously what that will mean in terms of ramping up production or research, whatever it is that you need
for this part of the business?
ROSENGREN: That is correct. This is of course a key technology for ABB as we do electrify the world, but we see this also, as the market is growing
with such speed, it is of course, important that we get the right focus.
We also need to be able to invest in more -- in acquisitions, building out the infrastructure. And I think capital is important. So we decided to --
or decided -- or deciding to and hopefully to be done during the first half of next year.
CHATTERLEY: Fantastic. I mean, you have so many exciting things going on at ABB, I know. But I do want to get your sense of the pressures that
you're seeing from input costs, to what degree those pressures you're able to pass, those increased prices of inputs onto consumers and particularly
given some of the challenges and we've been talking about it already on the show in China, and the power shortages there.
What you're seeing for your business over there, too? Can you just give us a sense?
ROSENGREN: I think it is a challenging time for every industry today. I mean, it is commodity prices, if it's logistic chain. I think everything is
under constraint and the demand is as we all know is very strong all over the world.
ROSENGREN: So, I think many companies including ABB is having a lot of challenges on this side. On the other hand, I think it as the time goes, we
are getting used to these levels and our production facilities are coping up with the volumes and we are adding capacity and I think, yes, in the
long run, we will get over their problems
CHATTERLEY: Yes, challenging but you're managing it. I think that's the message. How long --
ROSENGREN: So, I think we all need to do it and then in the end, you know we have a lot of customers around the world who needs a product and we need
to get it out.
CHATTERLEY: Do you think it's going to be a problem throughout 2022 as well? Or do you think by then, we'll have worked out some of these
logistical and supply chain issues?
ROSENGREN: You know, I think we will definitely see during next quarter also, but also probably, some quarters going forward especially when it is,
you know, related to semiconductors which is -- they are really constrained in the market today.
So, it will take time to build up capacity there, I think.
CHATTERLEY: Sir, fantastic to have you on. Exciting technology, and we look forward to seeing it at petrol and gas stations near us all. Bjorn
Rosengren, the CEO of ABB.
ROSENGREN: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you, sir.
ROSENGREN: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: The market opens next. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE and we do have a weaker open as predicted. A bit of a hangover after a winning week on Wall Street last
week. The best week in fact for the Dow in three months. Investors still trying to figure out, I think what to make of Friday's labor let down.
If you remember, the U.S. created some 300,000 fewer jobs than expected in September, but there were positive revisions to the prior two months. Some
arguing that the numbers weren't that bad when factoring the seasonal factors.
And of course, the revisions I mentioned, the bottom line is that the report probably wasn't bad enough for the Federal Reserve to delay a
decision to cut stimulus due early next month.
CHATTERLEY: A key decision not only of course for the United States. All stocks are early session gainers as Brent crude rises to over $84.00 a
barrel. Energy prices have now risen for seven straight weeks. Great news, it seems for oil exporting giant, Russia, the ruble is now the best
performing emerging market currency, as traders bet on continued higher energy prices.
Investors also sinking cash into the Colombian peso, the second best performing EM currency in recent weeks, Colombia, another large energy
And on that note, the International Monetary fund's Annual Meeting kicks off in Washington this Monday driving the agenda of fears that the global
recovery may have stalled.
Colombia's President is warning many countries is struggling under huge new debts that they took on because of the pandemic. He says only the world's
richest nations can afford to pay for vaccines, fiscal stimulus and a green recovery. And he argues that the way we measure debt needs to change to
prevent a major crisis.
And joining us now is Ivan Duque Marquez. He is the President of Colombia. Sir, fantastic to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
We have much to discuss.
IVAN DUQUE MARQUEZ, PRESIDENT OF COLOMBIA: Hello, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Hello. We have much to discuss. But I do want to start by asking you how the country is doing? You've had to take some very tough
decisions, because the pandemic has put immense pressure on your people, on families, and on the jobs market, too. How are you doing?
MARQUEZ: Well, thank you so much, Julia. It's a great honor for me to be here in your program. And maybe what I'll say is that there are very good
news for the Colombian economy. We're expected to grow this year above seven percent, and that will be the highest growth in this century.
When we look at previous recession cycles, for example, 20 years ago, we had a reduction in our growth of minus 4.5. In the year 2000, we grew 2.5.
In this case, we had a reduction on our growth last year of 6.8. But this year, we're going to grow above seven. That means that this is not just a
reboot, but this is a real recovery.
We're also recovering jobs and we are getting pretty close to have pre- pandemic employment and statistics. And something that I also want to highlight is that in the last three years, non-mining and energy foreign
direct investment has spiked almost 200 percent.
So, we're seeing the economy recover at a very good pace, and we hope that we are going to establish a long-term growth that is going to be above four
So, all of this is leading us to have a real economic transition, and also based on new sources of income, like renewable energies, five generation
highways, among many others.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, we're going to talk about innovation and infrastructure because they know they are key priorities for the government.
You're going to meet the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken in Colombia next week. Just one of the top priorities first and foremost, and then
we'll talk about everything else, more access to vaccines from the international community, for countries like your own, does that have to be
a priority, because that's key to recovery, too?
MARQUEZ: Indeed, indeed, and now, we're supposed to be today at 43 million doses that have already been delivered in Colombia. Our goal is to have 48
million by the end of this month. And we're going to meet our target, which is by the end of the year to have 70 percent of all the Colombian
population that are fully vaccinated.
Obviously, we have been really having axes. But obviously, we have seen delays in some of the pharmaceuticals. Hopefully now, we're on schedule. We
have a very good stock.
So these allowed us to accelerate the program, and I should say, this goes hand in hand with the recovery. As we have been accelerating vaccination,
we have been also accelerating the economic recovery. So, they go hand in hand.
Now the challenge for the next few months, and obviously for next year, are booster shots and having all the access. So, I think having a better
multinational, multilateral coordination on the accessibility is something that is going to be crucial, not only for us, but for the whole world
because we have seen that more than 40 countries have not even applied the first doses.
So, I think we all have to work to that.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, you are incredibly eloquent, I think on the world stage of helping people understand balancing competing forces, whether it's
trying to diversify your economy away from our reliance on fossil fuels, like oil, for example.
But also -- and I know you've got targets of your own, improving sustainability, improving the green profile of the country at the same
time, and you've said, look, there needs to be changes in the way that countries like Colombia are viewed in terms of their deficit, in terms of
their debt, because you simply can't have done all the spending that you've done to fight the pandemic, and also transition the economy and make the
investments required to improve your carbon footprint.
Help us understand what needs to change in terms of how you're viewed? And what have your creditors said about the prospect of debt relief and perhaps
shifting some of that investment spending out of the deficit calculation?
MARQUEZ: I think that's a great question, Julia. Because when we have seen the statistics that have come out from the I.M.F., we know that on average,
the world has now around 90 percent of GDP, so this -- so we have to still deal with a pandemic, continue doing social investment, closing the social
gaps, but also accelerating the carbon neutrality process that has to be reached towards 2050.
So what I'm saying is, we need to be aware that if we really want to accelerate what comes out of Glasgow in the COP 26, we have to ensure that
we're not going to have competition between what goes to education, what goes to healthcare, what goes to infrastructure, and what goes to climate
So in that sense, what we have proposed for middle income countries, is that for a period of time, we could create funds that are aimed to
accelerate that energy transition, and that they are not counted on the permanent fiscal deficit calculation. That could accelerate the investment
and not to have the clash, or that conflict between every single penny and where does it go to. So I think that's something that is important.
But also, we have said that for poor countries, it is crucial to have not only debt relief based on climate action objectives that are reached, but
also debt swaps for some of the countries. I think raising this intelligent green financing is something that is going to be very important for us to
reduce our carbon footprint, but more -- and at the same time, to be able to accelerate the energy transition and reaching carbon neutrality.
So the essence is, let's have some funds that are aimed to that acceleration, and that is putting out of the deficit for a certain period
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, as you have -- and as said you are recovering, and it's a strong recovery in the face of great challenges. There's also
been a rise in poverty in the nation, as we've seen in many places around the world, there's also been a rise in violence, as we've seen around the
world as well.
And your government has come under criticism for your commitment to the FARC Peace Agreement. What's your sense -- and is the government committed
to that? Because again, this is going to be something I'm sure that you're talking to the U.S. Secretary of State and how the two countries could
continue to work together on this. Are you still committed to the agreement or is amnesty for some of these people, perhaps a flawed concept in your
MARQUEZ: I think you have raised three important issues. So, let me begin with the social safety net. And basically, what we have in our
administration is that we have been able to duplicate the amount of beneficiaries from conditional and non-conditional cash transfers, in order
to prevent the poverty rate to climb.
And something that is also important, we have extended what we call a basic income for the poorest of the poor that is going to be taking place until
December 2022. With that, we expect the pre-pandemic levels in 2022 maybe by the month of May. So that's issue number one.
Issue number two that you raised. Yes, we have dealt with violence. That's true. And it is somewhat a global phenomenon. But what's interesting is
that we have reached the lowest homicide rates almost in 40 years. And that demonstrates that we have a positive evolution. Nevertheless, we have to
work on security every day.
And on the peace agreement, Julia, some -- there's a great phrase I always like to use that was used maybe by Mark Twain, and later on by a politician
called Daniel Patrick Moynihan, which is in politics, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.
So when we look at the facts in Colombia, we have not only increased the investments implementing the agreement, but the regional focus development
plan that are the cornerstone of this process. We basically inherited just two of those programs, and we just reached 16, which is 100 percent of the
programs that are already designed under mobilizing resources in different regions of Colombia.
And that's why we have reached the highest land titling granting in Colombia, and something that is also important, the implementation of the
biggest tertiary roads program, among many others. So I think we're not only committed, but we're committed, but we still always claim that there's
true peace, reparation, and non-repetition.
How do we achieve that? Working with all the institutions and guaranteeing that there is no impunity for crimes against humanity.
CHATTERLEY: Can you do more for these communities? As you've said, you have stepped up the program. You're working on it, and I appreciate that.
But do you believe you can do more and what do you want from the United States to help you with this?
MARQUEZ: We have to do much more. But something is important, Julia, that this is a process that was designed to be implemented in the first -- in 15
years. So, we just passed the first five. And the Ombudsperson in Columbia made a very important report about the progress and what he said is that in
my administration, there has been more implementation work being done than in the first 20 months of the previous administration once the agreement
was signed, so I think we're in a good pace.
MARQUEZ: Can we do more? Yes, we can. And that's why we are trying to accelerate the investments in those areas that have been historically
affected by violence and by poverty.
And on the U.S. support, we have met Dalip Singh last week in Bogota. We also met with the people from DFC. And I think what's important is that the
initiative that has been launched by President Biden called the B3W, Build Back the World is something that can bring a lot of investment, generate
employment, and they can also have an effect of what we called for ensuring, which is to establish industries in our countries that are close
to the American market that can also generate jobs, generate opportunities, and trigger economic growth.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it is all part of your focus, I know on innovation, on sustainability, and reshaping the economy and the environment for the
country as well.
I do want to get your view very quickly, because I know part of the financial pressures that the country has faced is that you've taken many
Venezuelan refugees. And I know you also made an offer to try and help with the Afghanistan situation as well, which was clearly welcomed by the world
Can I ask where you are on that, whether you are going to take Afghan refugees? And what your view on this is, not just for Colombia, of course,
but as a world?
MARQUEZ: Julia, the question, let me take that up and to show you this. This is the TPS card that we're going to provide to 1.8 Venezuelan migrants
in Colombia. We have already 1.4 million out of 1.8 that have already registered with biometrical information. With this, we're going to grant
one million before the end of this year, 800,000 in 2022, in the first semester.
So this will allow the migrants not only to access to a bank account, to buy a home, but also to have employment, formal employment in Colombia. So
this is a way that we have to manage this not only with fraternity, but in an intelligent way. And this is going to allow us to have a better
management of those 1.8 that were already in Colombia, but they were invisible.
So we're making them visible. We're granting rights.
But something that is important is that we have to mobilize the resources from the world community. Just to give you an idea, Julia, when we look at
the amount of dollars that have been granted per migrant in the Syrian crisis, we're talking about more than $3,000.00.
When we look at what has happened in Sudan, it is $1,600.00. In our case, we don't get to even to $300.00.
So we're making a big fiscal effort. And what we have talked with United States and other countries is that we need to accelerate the disbursements
because yes, we have pledges and commitments. But having an acceleration of those resources helps us to enhance this policy.
And on the Afghanis. We have said publicly that yes, we were -- we offered to the United States that we could have approximately 4,000 Afghan citizens
that will be in Colombia in a temporary way, while they resolve their migration status in the United States. I think for logistical and cost
reasons, the United States has identified that it's much better to have them in the U.S. soil.
But nevertheless, we made the offer because this is a humanitarian sentiment. We know there are people suffering, and we want to be part of
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And whether it is vaccines or refugees, the world has to stand together, sir.
Thank you for your time. We have much more to discuss. So, I would like to reconvene at a later date, please, and then get you back on.
It has been fantastic to talk to you. Ivan Duque Marquez, the President of Colombia. Sir, thank you, once again.
MARQUEZ: Thank you, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you.
We're back after this. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE.
The International Monetary Fund World Bank Autumn Meetings are now underway. Not on the agenda, but clearly a topic, accusations against the
I.M.F.'s Managing Director Kristalina Georgieva Gill that she pressured World Bank staffers to manipulate data in China's favor in 2017.
Clare Sebastian, the investigation is ongoing. Does she survive?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's the big question, Julia. There seems to be a concerted effort to try to resolve this
investigation before we get into those Autumn Meetings and time is running very short. They start tomorrow.
So what we know is that the I.M.F. Executive Board has been reviewing this report that was commissioned by the World Bank done by a law firm,
WilmerHale. They conducted a large number of meetings last week, including with Miss Georgieva and with lawyers from WilmerHale. They had a very long
one on Friday, and then very unusually, they had another one on Sunday, which, you know, I'm told is extremely unusual to happen at the I.M.F.
So again, this concerted effort to try and wrap this up, before it starts to overshadow these Autumn Meetings. The board itself has said that they
made further significant progress on Sunday. They hope to conclude this very soon.
And meanwhile, Miss Georgieva herself continues to refute the allegations against her. In a statement provided by her lawyers to the board, she says
that the WilmerHale actually misrepresented the circumstances and conditions of her interviews that she did for the investigation, that she
was told she was not the subject of a review, and that she was promised confidentiality, and one more potential wrinkle in this, Julia, is a
potential division between the countries on the I.M.F. board.
We're told that the French Finance Ministry, they will support her. We don't know yet what the U.S. will do, and they are the largest shareholder.
CHATTERLEY: Watch this space. Clare Sebastian, thank you for joining us on that.
All right, coming up next, the final frontier on hold. Why there was a last minute snag in William Shatner's trips to space.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. For years, he thrilled audiences as the Captain of the Starship Enterprise. Now, William Shatner is boldly
going where he has never gone before, that is space, the final frontier.
The "Star Trek" icon tweeted this photo a little earlier saying, "Aren't we all adorbs?" Wowsers. His Blue Origin flight has been delayed until
Wednesday due to bad weather.
At the age of 90, Shatner will be the oldest person yet to launch into space and CNN's Erica Hill asked how he is feeling and if he is now a true
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM SHATNER, ACTOR: I feel comfortable, but I'm also uncomfortable. I'll be very happy when we go up and we're in weightlessness and we know
we're safe because everything else should be all right and we have that moment of inspiration, which I feel will be there when we're looking into
the vastness of the universe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Wow. I can't believe he's 90, but he will be that character in "Miss Congeniality" for me, so I hope when he is up there, he calls for
Yes, that's it for the show.
If you've missed any of my interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages, search for @jchatterleyCNN.
I hope I'll be back tomorrow. See you then.