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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Germany's New Chancellor Takes Office; Pfizer: Booster Dose Of Vaccine Protects Against Omicron; COVID-19 Positivity Rate Drops Slightly In South Africa; Biden And Putin Hold Two-Hour Video Conference; COVID Deaths Drop In Brazil With Mass Vaccination; Japanese Billionaire Arrives At International Space Station. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired December 08, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE. And here's your need to know.
Omicron optimism. Pfizer says a third vaccine dose neutralizes the variant.
Angela's Auf Wiedersehen. Olaf Scholz sworn in as Germany's new chancellor.
And party probe. Boris Johnson says claims his office flouted COVID lockdown rules will be investigated.
It's Wednesday. Let's make a move.
A warm welcome to FIRST MOVE once again. We're following two breaking new stories at this hour.
The changing of the guard in Germany as new Chancellor Olaf Scholz takes power.
Plus, highly significant and encouraging news on the fight against the new COVID variant. Just released data from Pfizer and its partner BioNTech say
three doses of their vaccine quote, "neutralizes the Omicron variant in lab tests."
They caution, though, some lack of clarity over how much protection two doses provide. Pfizer also disclosing that it continues to develop an
Omicron-specific version of the vaccine.
We will discuss all the details shortly important developments. But we also need further study and verification. And we need to understand the behavior
of vaccines against this variant in the real world, not just in a lab.
Yet, global investors are encouraged. U.S. futures set to advance following the best two-day rally on Wall Street this year.
Europe, cautious. Of course, it remains deep in the grip of Delta, that variant surge. Also, let's remember that millions of people in the
developing world are still desperately awaiting their first vaccine dose, never mind their third.
We'll discuss all of this with the African regional director of the World Health Organization.
Plus, the pandemic view -- plus, the pandemic view from Brazil. Sao Paulo's Governor Joao Doria will discuss the state's response to the variant.
But first, I want to go over to Jeremy because former Chancellor Angela Merkel is speaking.
ANGELA MERKEL, FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): -- the designated government's spokesman, I believe, the minsters here at the
chancellor. I would like to welcome you all also on behalf of all those who held this position beforehand. Since I am no longer a member of parliament,
I was not able to present my personal congratulations to Olaf Scholz. So, I would like to do this now. Congratulation to you Chancellor Olaf Scholz.
I know from experience that this is a moving moment to be elected to this office. You may sense that it is an exciting and challenging task, a
fulfilling task. And if one approaches it, it is also one of the most beautiful tasks there are to be responsible for this country. So, I wish
you all the best from the bottom of my heart. And that you should always be fortunate in your endeavors on behalf of this country.
We are meeting here today in a small circle when years ago, I took over this task from Gerhard Schroder. The whole staff here had staff some wanted
to -- some of them are now listening to us. And I can tell you that you will find a team here that is full of passion, full of commitment in their
work every day and night, if necessary, who are always ready, motivated, full of (AUDIO GAP), expertise and that holds true from everyone from the
(INAUDIBLE) and all resort heads from the kitchen staff through to the post room and in the many, many tasks that have to work like gears interacting
with each other here.
Anyone applying here to work here, staff and to working here know what politics means, that when you enter here in the morning, you don't know
what the day will bring. And you may always be prepared to have to pay attention to very new unexpected challenges. I know that you are highly
motivated in taking on your work here.
And so, please take possession of this house and use this house in your work for the best of our country. That is my wish and for that, I wish you
all the very best.
OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Here Mrs. Merkel, dear Chancellor, I would like to thank you very much for your work over the past
I think one can say very precisely that this was a great time during which you were chancellor of this country. And you got many things done, many
challenges had to be overcome. But great crises came and some of those we worked together in various capacities, me also heading the cabinet where
you are a member in 2009, the great challenges with the migration 2015.
And now, of course, the great economic social challenge linked with the corona pandemic. This has forged us together and between us it has always
been a close cooperation based on trust.
And I think this is good. Because it shows that we are a strong democracy that can perform with the great consensus between the Democrats who are
responsible for this. And this will be our strength - continue to be our strength. But have you shaped this country and this government and this
house? And so, I think one can say, I can say, that it is a special moment, it is something special.
And I am happy to be inspired by the northeast German mentality that has been pervasive in this house. Not so much will change there. I think we can
draw back on the great work that has been done by many here, the staff of this house. And this has always been very clear to me in terms of the
responsibility that I've had. That is why I look forward to the cooperation and would like to thank you, not only you, but also all those responsible
who have been here in position who are gathered here. So there has been so much cooperation there over the past years and to join and to build on that
that is going to be an honor for me, a privilege.
I think it is something very special to be a chancellor of this republic. It is a great challenge. And I am very grateful that I now have been given
this by the citizens of this country and the parliament to do this. And the fact that we have had so much experience together, this will help me in my
task. Thank you very much.
And yeah, to the staff who are not here today but who are listening online streams in the various offices, thank you very much for the work you have
done for the work that you will have done, I will build on it. I will rely on it. And the transition which we have got here now happens with a great
crisis, that is not concluded, and it means that we will all have to work together jointly. And I think we will do that.
We can fight the corona pandemic in terms of many people getting vaccinated and getting the boosters in terms of us being cautious. That is part of it.
And that it is why it is right that this is a somewhat limited meeting here in terms of the people who are present physically. The fact that we are
wearing masks when we're sitting down and that is a pre-condition for this being a success.
I am grateful for what we have done so far. I look forward to the new task and to working with all those here. And I will do everything that this will
be another good start for our country.
CHATTERLEY: New German Chancellor Olaf Scholz there taking the baton from former German Chancellor Angela Merkel, rival parties, but incredibly
graceful handover I think there as you've observed.
Fred Pleitgen joins us now.
Fred in this, both of them said, huge challenges, whether it's the economy, whether it's continuing to fight the pandemic.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.
CHATTERLEY: Whether it's the geopolitical challenges. This chancellor has huge shoes to fill where Angela Merkel leaves off, I think.
PLEITGEN: Yeah. A gigantic - gigantic shoes to fill certainly. But I think one of the things that we heard there in the speeches of both outgoing
Chancellor Angela Merkel and the incoming Chancellor Olaf Scholz was that what they build on is continuity.
And of course, one of the things that we have to keep in mind, Julia, is that Olaf Scholz for the past years has been the vice chancellor of Germany
and being the finance minister was also one of the most powerful people when it came to steering the economic fate of this country.
And of course, also, in the fight against the coronavirus pandemic. And I think it's something that both of them now pointed out is that continuity
that Olaf Scholz hopes to build on as Angela Merkel said he is taking control of that house, taking control of the chancellor.
And you're absolutely right to say that the biggest challenge is definitely fighting the coronavirus pandemic. That is something where Angela Merkel
and Olaf Scholz in the past couple of days have already worked together. They've held large scale meetings. They've decided on new measures to try
and combat the coronavirus pandemic. And - and there's going to be some continuity in moving that forward.
But I also think that one of the biggest challenges that Germany has right now is modernizing the economy. And I think that Olaf Scholz is aware of
that. His coalition partners are aware of this, making this a digital economy. Making it a more modern economy certainly is a big challenge.
And I think what we're going to see from this new government, and this is very important. You are going to see Germany move even more than it has so
before into a big transatlantic partnership with the United States. Olaf Scholz is now secret as a big admirer of President Joe Biden. He has said
in the past that he is very grateful for Joe Biden bringing back, as he puts it, multilateralism into the U.S.'s foreign policy. That's something
that Olaf Scholz once again said just yesterday.
And he's also a big fan and a big supporter of President Joe Biden's plan for global minimum tax. That's also one of the big things that Olaf Scholz
has been fighting for, for the past couple of years. So, we can see that there is going to be very close relations with the United States, with this
new government. But in general, also a lot of continuity in German politics even as you have a chancellor from the rival party of the one that Angela
Merkel was in. Julia?
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And Thursday as chancellor is a half day which is quite nice but there is clearly no time to lose on the job.
Fred Pleitgen, great to have you with us. Thank you for that.
OK, let's bring in our second top story today. Omicron optimism, just released data from Pfizer and its partner BioNTech say three doses of their
vaccine, quote, "neutralizes the Omicron variant in lab tests." Let's be clear.
Elizabeth Cohen joins me now. Elizabeth, I know you're going to have loads of caveats for me. But this does tie to some of the data that we got from
the South African study, small at it was yesterday. How optimistic should we be? And can you give us more details?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Julia, what you just said is so important that this data from Pfizer really does jive well with
the data that came out of the South Africa research lab yesterday. And that's always good. That's always good to see when you have two different
labs finding the same thing. So, our findings something similar.
So, let's take a look sort of combined what these two labs found. What they found is that two doses of the Pfizer vaccine may not provide sufficient
protection against infection with Omicron. Now, that's important because you always want to avoid infection, but being infected is not necessarily
such a big deal. But two doses may not keep you from getting infected. But it may not be such a big deal to get infected.
And also, here's the important part. Two doses may still give significant protection against severe disease. Two doses of Pfizer may still protect
you against ending up in the hospital or ending up dead. And a third dose or what some people call a booster dose, may give more robust protection.
So, the bottom line here is that in a way, I mean this is really pretty good news. It's very preliminary. It's only in labs. But it is still good
news to hear that two doses, does seem to give significant protection against severe disease and that a third dose seems to do even better.
I think when we saw this mutation, you know, sort of at the end of November, everyone said, oh my gosh, there is 30 different mutations in
Will the vaccine even be vaguely useful?
Yes, it is. The vaccine is still useful.
Did this mutation -- this variant, this Omicron variant, did it escape the vaccine to some extent?
Yes, it did.
Did we want to see that?
But the good news here is that the vaccine still does work to a great extent. Now what the doctors are finding in South Africa is that people who
are getting Omicron, if they're vaccinated, don't get very sick. That also sort of makes sense of this data.
So, let's take a listen to Dr. Angelique Coetzee, she is the chair of the South African Medical Association.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANGELIQUE COETZEE, CHAIR, SOUTH AFRICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: I need to stress, for now, it still protects against sever disease and as the disease
patterns what we are seeing are mild on these people that's been vaccinated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: So again, Julia, what we're seeing is that the data and what Dr. Coetzee is just saying it's all sort of agreeing which is that this vaccine
does seem to provide protection against severe disease. You might get infected. But it seems like it's giving protection against severe disease.
Of course, many more studies still need to be done. Julia?
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And for those that say this is a vaccine company saying, our vaccine still works. And you need to get a third dose in order to boost
the efficacy, as you've pointed out and we've pointed out.
There are others now that are saying, look, this is a similar pattern to other datasets.
CHATTERLEY: More work required, however.
Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that. Our senior medical correspondent there.
OK. Still to come here on FIRST MOVE.
Vital vaccines. As Pfizer says, three doses are effective against the Omicron variant. We speak to the W.H.O.'s representative for Africa to get
And Brazil as vaccinated it's where in one of the world's worst COVID outbreaks. The governor of Sao Paulo explains how. Stay with us. That's
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE.
As we've heard -- my apologies -- initial studies from the makers of Pfizer, BioNTech vaccine show three doses of that drug can neutralize the
Omicron coronavirus variant. The company say two doses may still provide protection against severe disease. Pfizer says two shots and a booster
remain the best course of action to prevent the spread of COVID-19. And if it's needed, a vaccine specifically for Omicron could be ready by March.
The company's chief scientific officer spoke to CNN a short while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKAEL DOLSTEN, PRESIDENT OF WORLDWIDE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, PFIZER: Two doses is on the weekend against this new variant, T-cells may help you
to be a protector against severe disease, hospitalization. But it's really time to get the third boost and you should be very encouraged by this
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Africa, of course, remains the least vaccinated continent. While deliveries are accelerating, in many places, a shortage of funds and
hesitancy stand in the way.
Dr. Matshidiso Moeti is the regional director for Africa at the World Health Organization.
Dr. Moeti, fantastic to have you on the show. I appreciate your time.
I am begging you're pulled actually to ask your opinion of what you think of the Pfizer announcement this morning when what 80 percent of the
continent hasn't had access to one dose yet. But what do you make of what Pfizer, BioNTech is saying today?
DR. MATSHIDISO MOETI, REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR AFRICA, W.H.O.: Sorry, what are they saying today?
CHATTERLEY: Oh, they've come out this morning and suggest that's three doses of the vaccination that they've provided neutralizes the Omicron
variant in lab tests.
MOETI: I think that would -- may need to be taken into perspective looking at the whole picture. And I hope that that's what's decisionmakers in
countries, policymakers and programs will do. That's something that's coming up in our laboratory.
At the same time, we have about 90 percent overall of people who need the vaccine in Africa not yet vaccinated. And we have increasing indication
that actually, this Omicron variant may be more transmissible. But it does not cause severe disease.
At the same time, we still have the Delta variant still circulating and it's ticked up cases. Particularly in Europe very tremendously, causing
severe illness still. And we need to put all of that into perspective and seek to have what we have been advocating for W.H.O. for months now. Equity
and access to vaccines so that we protect all people who really need vaccines becomes severely ill, die, overwhelmed health systems in countries
in an equitable way vaccinated (INAUDIBLE). That is what I would say to this.
CHATTERLEY: Yeah. You raised such a good point and I remember the targets for the World Health Organization for the continent by the end of 2021. And
I believe now just five African nations have reached the target for countries there to vaccinate. At least 40 percent of their people by the
end of this year.
Was the target just for too ambitious? Does it come down to hesitancy? Does it come down to logistics? Does it come down to money? What's the biggest
sticking point in your mind and what more can be done?
MOETI: Yeah. I think ambitious targets are a good thing. They stir us on to more across the board. We've seen that with HIV/AIDS in Africa. We've seen
that with other public health problems of a severe nature. And indeed, the ambition for COVID-19 has spurred on the very rapid development of two. So,
that's a good thing.
But I do think that we need to be aware that as long as we have countries that have low vaccination rates, we will continue to have even more danger,
possibly variants emerging. So, we do need to move countries along at the same time.
We have had a number of issues, challenged African countries. First and foremost, we need to be very clear the primary problem was access to
vaccine supplies while high-income countries had supplies in storage, not in use for very many more in some cases times in their population.
And then now that vaccines have started to be available - more and more available in African countries, in a very complex way like we see. We have
different combinations of vaccines. We sometimes have uncertainty until the very last minute about when vaccines are being delivered.
And if you have to plan a campaign for whole country, it's very, very challenging to do that with a level of uncertainty thus obtained for
African countries. We do indeed, have challenges with some populations in Africa being vaccines for various reasons, including the anti-vax movement,
which is affecting acceptance all over the world. And then countries are really looking, working to ramp up their capacity to deliver vaccines as
they arrive. And we are seeing aggressively that readiness among African countries. Primarily, it's been an issue of access to supplies,
predictability of supplies. And we hope that the situation will improve soon.
CHATTERLEY: Obviously, it was the South African health authorities that identified the Omicron variant first. And we're very grateful to them for
raising the alarm on this. But to your point, when I believe 7.5 percent of people across the continent are fully vaccinated. As you said over 90
How concerned are you as the head of the World Health Organization there? There is a risk of further variants. If not this one emanating from the
region, simply due to the lack of vaccinations?
MOETI: Yes, this is a concern. And I think we need to be clear that one of the reasons that this variant emanated from the region. We know it was
initially detected in South Africa and in the neighboring country Botswana. And very importantly, it was communicated immediately by these two
So, the more we have people unvaccinated, the more there are chances that the virus will continue to replicate. It will continue to spread in
populations, so vaccination of all populations is important for the good of all people in our countries as we stop even more dangerous variants
CHATTERLEY: Yeah. We all need to accept that wherever the variant originates or is identified, everyone feels the effect of it.
You know one of the other things that I find most concerning, and you tweeted about it very recently is just that 27 percent of health workers in
Africa are fully vaccinated.
And these are the people on the frontlines, putting - putting their lives on the line. How much of this is down to, choice versus necessity, once
again? Because there just aren't the supplies available? Because this is another responsibility, surely, not just of the continent, but of the rest
of the world to ensure these people first and foremost are vaccinated?
MOETI: Yes. Again, it has been a combination of first, uncertainty of the vaccine supplies. While health care workers were very much in virtually all
countries among the first groups to be targeted for being vaccinated. We are seeing, as we are seeing in the general population, some health workers
be hesitant, some health workers buy into some of the stories about vaccines. And governments are working with our support, W.H.O. and other
Very hard to really convince these colleagues who are such heroes, does such heroic work for a year and more to support their communities, that
they need to get vaccinated for the sake of their work, their patients, their families and most importantly, their own health and lives.
CHATTERLEY: Yeah, you also tweeted something else which resonated with me. And that was for all the focus that we're putting on COVID-19, there are
other viruses out there and diseases that we need to not lose attention and continue to focus on HIV, AIDS, sexually transmitted disease as well.
For people watching, what do we need to understand whether are you coming from the continent or you are watching from somewhere else in the world
because we can't lose focus on other issues behind the scenes while we continue to fight against COVID-19.
MOETI: Yes, that's very important point. In fact, ours at the opening yesterday of the AIDS Conference - of the Africa AIDS Conference. And where
we were very strongly reminded that although we've made progress on HIV and AIDS, we're still getting some people first not getting access to their
treatment because of all the variants created by COVID-19 and also other issues. And we've seen the same childhood vaccination.
And let me say that this is a particular problem in African countries. We have data showing that some services dropped by about 60 percent at the
beginning of the pandemic when there were very strict lockdowns. We also know that this have been in many countries. I am aware that cancer
treatment, (INAUDIBLE) surgery, for certain conditions in high income countries also had to be postponed.
So, there has been a real need for us to look at how to balance both the need to address the COVID-19 pandemic but also to make our health systems
resilient to the next shock so that we can continue to provide vital lifesaving services for the most important problems that people have, even
as we respond to such a huge challenge as the COVID-19 pandemic.
CHATTERLEY: Yeah. A global response required.
Dr. Moeti, great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us today and hopefully, we will speak again soon.
The regional director for Africa at the World Health Organization there.
MOETI: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you.
OK, we'll be back after this. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE.
U.S. markets are opened for business this Wednesday. The major averages have little changed in early trade. Futures had rallied earlier amid
encouraging news on data on the efficacy of COVID vaccines.
Pfizer and its partner BioNTech saying that a third booster dose of their vaccine, quote, "neutralizes the Omicron variant in lab tests."
The S&P 500 still only around 1 percent away from fresh record highs. A nice turnaround in sentiment of the last week's pull back on concerns about
that new variant.
In the meantime, the White House says President Biden warned his Russian counterpart to expect strict sanctions if Russia invades Ukraine. The two
men held a two-hour video call amid tensions over Russia's military buildup on the Ukrainian border.
And joining us now is Ian Bremmer, president of Eurasia Group and GZERO Media. And in his recent speech on the State of the World, he outlined what
he sees as some of the most powerful global force of today from China to technologies to Gen Z.
Ian, great to have you on the show.
Let's talk about Russia, Ukraine and of course that meeting -- digital meeting between the two presidents. How successful do you think it was?
IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP AND GZERO MEDIA: It was better than it could have been. And I think a lot of that is because it was set up
well. The United States coordinated with all their key allies in Europe, including the UK in advance. And that meant they were able to say pretty
compellingly that you won't see the kind of non-response in 2021-'22 to any further aggression over Ukraine that you did back in 2014 when Crimea was
annexed and the little green men popped over the border to take bits of the southeast.
That's very different from the unilateralism that the Biden administration was so roundly criticized for during the Afghanistan withdrawal. I think
they learned something there. And meanwhile, Putin is by himself.
I think that's useful. And I think the fact that they're going to continue to engage in diplomacy with the United States acting as a team with its
allies, none of whom are happy to see increased Russian aggression on Ukraine. I think that's all to the good. So, if I were reacting to all of
this today and for the near term at least, I think we've called intentions a bit.
CHATTERLEY: It's a cliche. But we often talk about red lines, where U.S. presidents in particular are concerned and a lack of clarity over where the
red lines are. At this point, are we saying that both sides know at least as far as the U.S. and its allies' perspective are what the red lines are
and what the detailed consequences of crossing those are? And in your case, and you have long said it, we won't see all-out war here, but there's
plenty of things that Russia could do to destabilize the region and continuing to add pressure as far as troops are concerned. Can we rule all
that out as a consequence of these meetings?
BREMMER: Julia, I think that's exactly the right question.
BREMMER: I mean, I think there are very clear red lines and if additional territory is taken that the sanctions that the Russians will face have been
laid out clearly and will deeply damage the Russian economy. I think both sides are very clear on that. But the Russians are highly unlikely to make
it that easy on the United States and its allies.
And if we were to see, for example, significant Russian cyberattacks against Ukraine or incursion by Russian irregulars, that the Russians could
plausibly or implausibly deny, were part of their formal defense forces. Then there I think there is a bigger question about whether the Americans
could keep the Europeans together and could respond effectively.
So, you know I don't think we're out of the woods here. And I think the Russians are absolutely going to make this challenging. Because they're not
happy that the Ukrainians have been integrating more closely into NATO over time. They want to put an end to that.
CHATTERLEY: And you said that Russia is fearful that Ukraine becomes a member of NATO. I mean the United States in particular has been non-
committal on that fact in any case. Do we just hold then at this point? Like what tips the balance?
BREMMER: I think that we can't give the Russians public assurance that Ukraine -
BREMMER: -- no longer has the sovereign ability to decide what it wants to joint. I mean we're not prepared to throw foreign policy out of the bus for
- for Putin. But in reality, of course, some of that has long already existed.
In other words, you've got the United States and allies refusing to allow Ukraine to join and it's been a long time now, precisely, because nobody is
prepared to offer direct military assurances that we would defend Ukraine if they were attacked the first time in 2014 or again going forward.
So, you know I think it is kind of like Taiwan where there is a level of necessary ambiguity from both sides because the status quo is OK-ish. It
doesn't satisfy anyone. But we're not willing to tip too far in either direction.
CHATTERLEY: Here this all ties to in part what you were discussing week and you released your State of the World. And I do want to talk about this
because you explore some of the big domestic challenges that both the United States and China face. And say actually, that creates a vacuum, a
gap for other nations to step up and play a role. It also creates a vacuum in space for some of the big tech giants to play a huge role. And we've
already seen it.
Remembered, you mentioned cyberattacks there, the solar winds response, Microsoft playing a huge part in that as one example. Tech companies
deplatforming. U.S. presidents, the results of what we saw on January the 6th this year. You call it a Technopolar Momeent. Just describe what the
Technopolar Moment is.
BREMMER: It means that you know for all of my life when we're talking about tensions on the global stage, we're talking primarily about governments.
And increasingly, that's not true. Increasingly, if you talk about the national security, if you talk about the state of the global economy and if
you talk about domestic politics. Increasingly, we have to talk about a small number of technology companies based in the United States and China
in addition to governments.
And on the one hand that actually reduces the likelihood of a U.S. versus China cold war. Because the incredible power these countries have comes in
significant and growing part from these companies that aren't completely aligned at all with the national security interests of Beijing and
On the other hand, it undermines the social contract. It reduces the effect of sovereignty of governments that are supposed to be taking care of their
citizens because anything that happens in the digital space in the virtual world, tech companies are sovereign, not governments. And the digital world
is becoming more important to all of us for the way we live our lives and for the outcomes of how geopolitics play out.
CHATTERLEY: I mean you defined three different business models that these tech companies will evolve to and they will choose to some degree based on
their relationship that they're going to have with governments going forward. You called them globalists, national champions and tech utopians.
And we can sort of define them, you do in the piece. Where people are headed already, the Amazon, the Microsoft, becoming more like national
champions. Apple out there is a globalist. What determines which model, which business model for each of these tech giants ends up the winner in
BREMMER: Well, yeah. I think one of the big questions is to what extent we actually see a true technology decoupling between the United States and
BREMMER: Remember, we set out the world wide web, it was the idea that there was going to be one global interconnectedness, globalization was
making people and capital and data move faster and faster across orders. Is that now unwinding. It isn't in terms of the global economy, in terms of
global commodities, in terms of tourism, even though the pandemic has you know delivered a temporary shock.
But when it comes to data and the internet, crypto, all the rest, increasingly, there are signs that the United States and China are creating
a splinternet. And that could even become instead of a metaverse, it could become a splinter verse.
Now, if that happens, national champions will become more important. And then you would see something akin to a technology cold war. And those -
those companies that are aligned with China or aligned with the United States will be the most successful and other countries around the world
will have to choose one or the other. That's not where we are today.
Today, if you're not in the United States or you're not in China, you feel like you can actually build your economy working with everybody.
You don't have to make that kind of a choice. And I think that going forward, the question of how that plays out is going to be absolutely
critical. Both for which tech companies are the most successful and powerful. And also, what kind of a world we live in.
CHATTERLEY: Yeah. I mean gosh, I could keep you talking on this for another hour at the very least. But one of the other things you say, we'll come
back and talk about this. And you have to come back and talk to me about again.
CHATTERLEY: You compared this to climate change, and we need to be having an even greater response than we're seeing to climate change today because
the technology shift is happening far quicker than climate change. We will reconvene. Because I do want to quickly get your views on Omicron and
obviously the news from Pfizer this morning. Hopeful signs at least on their vaccine.
BREMMER: Hopeful signs, of course, what we don't know is how long your antibodies from a booster shot will last. I'm not surprised at all that a
booster shot does a hell of a lot better protecting us. But what happens if it's six months out and everybody has to get boosted again?
Also, keep in mind when 8 percent of Africa has even been fully vaccinated with their first course, no one has got a booster yet. And so, of course,
the world is still very vulnerable to Omicron.
The big news out there is going to be about severity of disease, and early indications show that it might be milder than Delta. If that holds, it's
fantastically positive news.
If it doesn't, the next six months, even maybe 12 are going to be far more damaging, especially for the poorer countries in the world. That just have
-- don't have the ability to roll out and protect their populations.
CHATTERLEY: Yeah. And we're failing them. We literally just had this conversation.
As always attuned, and great to chat to you.
Ian Bremmer, president of Eurasia Group and GZERO Media. Great to chat to you. Thank you.
OK, coming up here on FIRST MOVE.
Brazil faces multiple challenges as it is emerging from the worst of the COVID-19 pandemic. How the governor there of Sao Paulo is tackling it.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE.
Brazil once a global epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic staging a turnaround with 65 percent now of the population fully vaccinated. The
daily number of deaths from COVID-19 is now down to around 200 compared to almost 3,000 back in April.
They're keeping the Brazilians safe is ongoing challenge and far from over with the country's largest state of Sao Paulo announcing a decision to
reduce the wait time between vaccination and booster shots from five months to four months and to reassess the lifting of mask mandates this week.
Brazil has also announced a five-day quarantine for unvaccinated travelers.
Joining us now, I'm pleased to say, is the governor of Sao Paulo, Joao Doria.
Governor Doria, fantastic to have you on the show once again.
Let's start with the decision to force unvaccinated travelers to quarantine for five days. You see the bulk of those travelers, your state, coming into
the country of Brazil. Does that go far enough in your mind or should the federal government go further?
JOAO DORIA, GOVERNOR OF SAO PAULO, BRAZIL: Julia, thanks for having me.
We are asking right now the federal government to urgently require COVID pass for international travelers that arrive in Brazil. That's the right
way. And Sao Paulo receives two-thirds of the foreigners that come by flights to our country. The major airport in Brazil is located in Sao
So, it's mandatory to demand here the same vaccine certificate that Brazilians most show in traveling to Europe or to the USA. And Sao Paulo,
Julia, has the most sources for vaccination program in Brazil. It would be a shame to put the health of thousands, of millions at risk without any
justifiable reason. And this is the main reason why Sao Paulo Scientific Committee recommended to us this measure.
We have sent an official requirement to the health minister of Brazil that must assure prudence adopting the COVID pass at our borders and
CHATTERLEY: So, you are saying you don't want unvaccinated visitors coming into Brazil at this moment. President Bolsonaro ruled this out already this
week. How confident are you that he will decide to change his mind for the safety of the Brazilian public?
DORIA: Well, Mr. Bolsonaro is a very difficult person. He is a denialist as you know. And we here, our priority is the health and the life of the
people. And Brazilian people, Julia, are tired of the political issues. We need peace and hope to rebuild this country.
CHATTERLEY: What about the mask mandates, Governor? Are you thinking of maintaining having to wear masks outdoors? I know you're going to make a
decision again this week. Can you give us any sense?
DORIA: Julia, masks are agreed here in Sao Paulo.
DORIA: Out of the numbers demonstrates that the pandemic is reaching back in Sao Paulo in the city and in the state of Sao Paulo. However, with
coming end of the year, parties and celebrations and uncertainties about the impact of the Omicron variant, we will choose to be careful. Our
greatest commitment is to the health and life of the population.
So, another important measure to prevent the spread of the new variant are educational. Campaigns. Campaigns that encourage the use of alcohol gel on
keeping hands clean and masks. In accordance with the recommendation of the Scientific Committee, we decided to maintain the request to use masks in
inside spaces and in open spaces also.
CHATTERLEY: You are fresh off the back of winning the PSDB Party primaries to be their presidential candidate. Of course, you got elections coming up
next year. And you are offering a third way, in part of the challenge of ruling, whether it's the state or the country is balancing the health risks
with trying to keep the economy going and enable the economy to grow. You have seen a significant recovery in Brazil. But now the economy is
What is your plan for the third way and how do you differentiate yourself from what President Bolsonaro is going to offer into next year? And of
course, what another challenger, we all know him well, the former President Lula is going to offer, too.
DORIA: Julia, thanks for the question. It's very important at this time to bring hope to the population and show that Brazil has solution. Let's take
care of the poorest and the rebuild our economy here in Sao Paulo.
This is already happening. Sao Paulo is the most powerful state in Brazil. With advancement of the vaccinations, Sao Paulo has greater economic growth
than national. And now so as break records of public investments and job creation. And this is essential for us.
This year's projection for Sao Paulo's growth is 7.5 percent. Much greater than the estimates for Brazil which is 5.3 percent and to boost the economy
we launched the largest program of works in the history of the state of Sao Paulo. We have 8,000 infrastructure works that will create 200,000 jobs in
the state of Sao Paulo.
And Julia, like we need in Brazil now are jobs and we also in Sao Paulo reduced the size of the state. And then they are taking 12 concessions and
private, public partnerships, which will generate over $10 billion to invest in priority areas, such as health, education and safety. And we also
announced that that reduction for 11 sectors, including medicines, restaurants, bar, cafes, food choices and agribusiness industry.
CHATTERLEY: You know it's interesting, and you said a number of times in this conversation, you know people are tired. I think the people that I
speak to there, they're tired of the big promises and the lack of follow- through, the lack of tackling violence there as well. And we've seen that pop up all around the world. The corruption.
Polls suggest that at least at this stage. I know you've got some time. You got one heck of a challenge on your hands to try and boost your poll
readings, to boost your popularity around the country. It's very different running a state from running the entire country.
What can you say to the people today that you represent something different and they're not just going to get the same old when they vote for someone
DORIA: We have to keep away populists. I am not a populist.
DORIA: I am working. I'm working hard.
CHATTERLEY: It's hard to be elected when you are not populist today. It's tough to get elected when you're not a populist today.
DORIA: Well, I'll tell you the truth, Julia, doing our job as we are doing now and creating jobs and running well the economy of the state of Sao
Paulo. We create the biggest and most comprehensive social program as I told you. And 5 million people at this moment, we are serving these people,
serving citizens and their families here in Sao Paulo.
Well, if we do that in Sao Paulo, the big state of Brazil, we can do that to Brazilians, all Brazil around.
CHATTERLEY: Yeah. Governor, continue to come and talk to us please. We are checking your progress. The governor of Sao Paulo there, some tough
decisions. They have to be made.
Still to come. A trip to outer space. May seem like a once in a lifetime opportunity. But we'll introduce you to you one man, he says his amazing
journey, won't be his last.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the and finally on FIRST MOVE.
A capsule carrying a Japanese billionaire docked with the international Space Station around an hour ago. It's how much Yusaku Maezawa a fashion
entrepreneur paid for the trip. But some reports say it was $50 million. Wows us.
He's the first tourist to visit the International Space Station in more than a decade. And Maezawa says it won't be his last trip. He's also
funding a private SpaceX mission to fly around the moon in 2023.
Pretty cool if you can afford it. I'd love to do it next time, please sir.
That's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. You can search for
In the meantime, "Connect the World" is up next. And I'll see you tomorrow.