Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Russia Accuses the U.S. of "Economic War"; McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Starbucks stop Operations in Russia; Oils Soars as Energy Becomes an Economic Weapon Against Russia; Ukraine, Russia Agree on Limited Ceasefire, Evacuations; U.N.: 2M People have Fled Ukraine since Russian Invasion; Intellias Helping Employees Relocate to Safety. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired March 09, 2022 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: You're watching CNN. I'm Julia Chatterley in New York with you for the next hour. And we begin with the

latest from Ukraine. Ukraine and Russia have agreed on six evacuation corridors. The firing is meant to stop for 12 hours in specific areas

including the City of Mariupol, whose population has been encircled for days.

In the last hour, the Deputy Mayor of Mariupol told CNN residents are melting snow for drinking water. But movement of people from the worst hit

areas has been limited with reports that heavy weapon fire has disrupted efforts to leave.

Ukraine's military says it is difficult to trust the occupier "After Russia repeatedly broke promises that it would allow people to leave". The

International Atomic Energy Agency says the Chernobyl Nuclear Plant remains safe after Ukraine warned of a possible radioactive leak. A power cut has

halted the cooling of spent nuclear fuel and heavy fighting is preventing repairs.

The IAEA says there's been no critical impact to safety. More than 200 staff has been manning the plant at gunpoint since Russia took it almost

two weeks ago. The Kremlin has accused the United States of waging economic war following a barrage of sanctions to punish Russia for the invasion. The

latest is a ban on the import of Russian oil.

The Kremlin says this has unleashed turmoil on the energy markets and that it's working on its response. President Putin and his ministers meet on

Thursday. Ukraine's Foreign Minister is due to meet his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov for talks on Thursday too, Dmytro Kuleba says he does not

have high expectations for the meeting which will take place in Turkey.

The Ukrainians are pushing for direct talks with Russia's President Putin, with Kuleba saying it is clear he makes all the decisions. A tiny trickle

of refugees has made it out of Ukrainian cities under attack, that millions remain trapped amid worsening conditions.

The UN says hundreds of thousands on the move trying to get to safety. The struggle to survive and to escape is especially hard on the elderly and

other vulnerable people. CNN's Clarissa Ward reports.


CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Incredibly, they emerge, some still standing some too weak to walk after

more than a week under heavy bombardment in the Kyiv suburb of Irpin. Volunteers help them carry their bags, the final few feet to relative


There are tearful reunions, as relative fear dead finally appear after days of no contact with the outside world. Many are still looking for their

loved ones. Soldiers help where they can for Larissa (ph) and Andriy (ph) it is an agonizing wait. Their son has been pinned down in the hotel he


We wait we hope we pray they tell me. This is the grief of all mothers of all people Larissa says this is a tragedy. Every time the phone rings,

there's a scramble, anticipation that it could be their son's voice on the line. This time, it is not.

Excuse me, I can't talk Andriy says I'm waiting for my son. They are not the only ones waiting these residents of a nursing home were among the last

to be evacuated from Irpin. They have been sitting here now for hours. Confused and disorientated many don't know where they are going.

Volunteer gently guides these women back to wait for the next bus. Valentina tells us she is frightened and freezing after days of endless

shelling and no heat. I want to lie down she says please help me. But for now, there is no place to lie down. The women are shepherded onto a bus

their arduous journey yet, for Larissa and Andriy the wait is finally over. Their son is alive.

ANDRIY KOLESNIK, IRPIN RESIDENT: The only words you can tell to the phone like mom, I'm alive, mom I'm alive and that's it.

WARD (voice over): I'm the happiest mother in the world right now she says my son is with me. But not every mother here is so lucky and for many the

wait continues Clarissa Ward, CNN, Kyiv.



CHATTERLEY: Moldova is another border nation receiving huge numbers of people fleeing the war, a recreation center in the nation's capital has

been turned into a temporary shelter as CNN's Ivan Watson reports.


IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Look how people here in Moldova are improvising to deal with the refugee crisis from

neighboring Ukraine, turning a squash court into a place for refugees and for children, some of whom here have been on a bus for more than 70 hours

traveling across the border to relative safety.

This is a small country, just 2.5 million people and it has already dealt with more than 230,000 people streaming across the borders, from the war

zone in Ukraine. They come to makeshift places like this and I can tell you refugees are still in shock. But some of them are also very angry and


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are Ukrainians. It's our land. My son was born in independent Ukraine. I was it's our land, independent, nobody can enter our

land. And if you - if someone is entering, we have to answer because it's our motherland. We have no other choice. We're very peaceful people. We're

not Nazi. We're just on our land with hands up, please. We want to live want to be happy. Stop shooting, please.

WATSON (on camera): This is not a government run shelter. This is coming with the help of private donations groups like the Jewish community of

Moldova, taking care of thousands of people at centers like this and others that have cropped up in just the last week and a half.

Almost everybody we've spoken to in Moldova has in some way reached out to help their neighbors from Ukraine, if not providing assistance, then even

opening their doors and housing families as they come through. Most of the people here are going to move on to other countries. And they are just the

beginning of a much larger flow of civilians fleeing Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Ivan Watson, CNN, Ukraine.


CHATTERLEY: And the major moves by iconic global brands continues McDonald's, Coca-Cola, and Starbucks, all suspending operations in Russia,

where they've long been symbols of the American and global lifestyle. Anna Stewart joins us now.

Anna, you and I were talking about this earlier this week that McDonald's and Coca-Cola hadn't yet announced they were making any changes. Now they

have and it's fascinating when you look at some of the statements from all of these big companies. We are talking about hundreds of thousands of

Russians potentially losing their jobs. We have to consider that along with what we're seeing.

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: And that's potentially why it has taken so long for some of these big companies to make these announcements. I mean,

#boycottMcDonald's has been trending on social media now for days. And in their announcement, they pointed out they're not just closing now 847


It's one of the few countries where they actually own the majority of the locations as opposed to franchising, and they say they employ 62,000

people. Now they are going to continue to pay those salaries for now. But you have to question for how long?

And if we add some of the other big businesses, we've seen IKEA; they've closed up shop in Russia. They employ 15,000. They said they will be

supporting employees. Again, we don't know the timeline for that. The big consultancy firms, I was just adding up some of their workforces that

totals over 18,000.

So these measures are punishing ordinary Russian people. And that's something these businesses didn't want to see. I mean, it's something that

Heineken certainly put in their statement.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, that Heineken statement caught my attention too. I think we've got it here to show people we see clear distinction between the

actions of the government and our employees in Russia, and a lot of them making a real pointed push to separate these two things.

But I think anything that creates a clear revenue stream in Russia now is being seen in some way, either indirectly or directly funding this war. And

that's the challenge here. One of the other challenges Anna is that in many cases, the West has gone dark in Russia now.

So we don't really have a true sense. What's happening for people and how life is changing? And the idea of seeing lots of McDonald's stores

shuttered, Starbucks stores shuttered. Life is changing, I think Anna on a fundamental basis on a day to day basis.

STEWART: I'm sure life will feel like it is going backwards going back into the sort of 1980s before Western brands, you know, opened up shop in

Russia. And it's hard to - you have to imagine it's hard to say exactly what it looks like because as you say, you know, news outlets aren't able

to report from Russia right now.


STEWART: But high streets will look different as all of these stores restaurants cafes shut her up for how long we just don't know? Shelves in

supermarkets will start to empty of all the Western brands that people have got used to.

And you've got to imagine what this must feel like your ordinary Russian, not just in terms of consumer goods, not just in terms of jobs, but also

the fact that they can't actually fly to many locations, Europe is shut off to them, you know, airspace bans there, international credit cards, that

they have them do not work.

As of last night, if you had savings in dollars, while you're limited as to how much you can take out of a bank, all of this adding up and what will

this mean for the economy? Well, that keeps changing. At the end of last week, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan suggested that Russia's economy could

contract by 7 percent this year, but that's potentially out of date, because we're not just looking at sanctions.

And of course, energy sanctions were added last night, but we're looking at this impact, potentially, in terms of unemployment, as well going forwards.

I think we probably just need to keep waiting. I mean, essentially, the economic battle is escalating day by day.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, the Kremlin said it they called it an economic war, economic war is being waged, and certainly the Russian economy is gonna

feel it as with others. Anna Stewart thank you.

Now China was quick to condemn the sanctions, if not the war itself, and is called for negotiations towards peace. Well, now President Xi Jinping

offering to mediate between Russia and the international community, he made the comments during a virtual call with leaders of both Germany and France.

Will Ripley joins us now President Xi speaks but actions will speak louder than words as you and I often discuss, how? How could he mediate here


WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How could he be a credible mediator when it is widely believed that President Putin and

President Xi met on the sidelines of the Beijing Olympics and struck some sort of a deal to delay the invasion until after the Olympics were over?

It is jaw dropping. And yet, you know, if you watch Chinese state media, Julia, they're praising this peacekeeping effort by President Xi. They're

talking about the enhanced communication between Germany and France and China, as they work to mediate this crisis without offering any actual

details as to how this would work.

President Xi is saying that he's deeply grieved by the war that has once again broken out on the European continent, and condemning Western

sanctions condemning the economic warfare that has been unleashed on the Russian President for his unprovoked invasion of a self-governing

democracy, saying that these sanctions Julia would dampen the global economy that's already ravaged by the pandemic.

It's - this is the reality. This is the world that we're living in where you can have two different completely different realities and for huge, you

know, groups of different populations. They're going to believe one version; the other is going to see the other version, really nothing based

in truth or facts but all in spin, and in censorship in the case of the Chinese and Russian state media, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, that's the challenge, isn't it? As one analyst said to me, China will do what serves China. So will they be willing to face secondary

sanctions in the financial sector, for example? Or does it mean for energy costs, perhaps if they can negotiate those? We'll see. Will Ripley, thank

you for that. Alright, still to come, plenty more on CNN stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! The Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov saying today "The United States has definitely declared economic war against

Russia and is waging this war". The stunning speed by which Russia has been hit with Western sanctions and the rapid withdrawal of major multinationals

from those countries we've discussed represents a historic uncoupling between Russia and the West.

The U.S. taking one of its most significant steps yet and announcing a complete ban on Russian energy imports. The UK announced a similar move far

more symbolic though in the case of these two nations than anything else the EU by far the largest consumer of Russian energy exports.

Russia provides some 45 percent of its natural gas 25 percent of its oil. And as we discussed yesterday, the EU also now works to cut its Russian

energy exposure by some two thirds by next year. Easier said than done all studying a little bit today, but still near 14 year highs.

Brent Crude is up some 30 percent since Russia's invasion of Ukraine began. It's up almost 85 percent year over year. Much to discuss Rob Thummel is

Portfolio Manager and Managing Director at Tortoise Capital and he joins us now. Rob, great to have you on the show!

I think the ultimate question here is how easy is it to replace Russian energy? But I think we'll get to that question. Firstly, I want to start by

asking you what's going on, on a day to day basis. How easy is it for the Russians to sell their oil specifically currently?

ROB THUMMEL, PORTFOLIO MANAGER, TORTOISE CAPITAL: Yes. Yes, well, you've seen that it's been very difficult, right? So half of Russian oil goes to

Asia, half of Russian oil goes to the West. And so clearly, the West isn't buying show all the major refiners that typically buy oil. Shell, BP, even

Exxon, they're not buying Russian oil.

East, it's still yet to be determined. Now the oil price of fresh oil has declined significantly, it does still appear that China and India are

buying Russian oil at a significant discount. But in the West, nobody's buying Russian oil at the present time.

CHATTERLEY: What kind of discount? At what point does Russia start losing money? Or does it get uncomfortable? What is their breakeven today?

THUMMEL: Oh, that break evens very low Julia. It's probably in the 10 to $15. I mean, oil can go down quite a bit. And the Russians can still make

some money, economically. But you know the bigger picture is there's a lot of shuffling deck shuffling that can go on here.

You know, the U.S. actually exports oil to China and India right now. Because obviously the U.S. price is significantly higher than the Russian

price, you're probably going to see U.S. exports to those two countries, specifically China indeed decline.

But that opens up available capacity for the U.S. to actually export to other countries, specifically, Europe, as you mentioned in your opening


CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, this is the key here. And if we talk about the short term, we've got the threat of broader sanctions, the uncertainty over

the conflict, and then the wildcard I think the Iranian nuclear deal. It's almost like everybody's waiting for everybody else.

The U.S. is pushing the OPEC players perhaps to help reduce the high prices today. But they're waiting to see what the United States does with the Iran

nuclear deal and whether or not more of their supplies going to come onto the market, sort of everyone watching everyone else.

THUMMEL: Yet that well, Julia, you're exactly right that's the challenge right now. So the easiest way to solve this crisis right now is to get OPEC

to produce more. And OPEC could do that. But OPEC is waiting to see if Iran is going to add oil volumes to the market because it could be substantial.

When are we going to figure that out? Well, that's the U.S. decision right? To determine should the U.S. remove Iranian sanctions so OPEC is waiting on

the U.S., the U.S. is waiting on OPEC actually to reach full capacity before U.S. producers are comfortable producing more oil as well.

So I'm here in the short term, we got to figure all of that out. But actually one wildcard that could really help things is Canada. Canada could

produce a lot more oil export it into the EU or the U.S. could import it from Canada which would leave more capacity for the U.S. actually to also

export oil around the world.


CHATTERLEY: And what about Shale? Bringing shale capacity here because it seems like the United States is saying, look, perhaps we could produce more

get more from the shale players, but the shale plays are saying hang on a second, we need more money, and the financing from Wall Street to talk to


And at the same time, we've got the pressure to be cleaner and to move away from this. Overall, what impact could they have in an ideal world?

THUMMEL: Yes. So what shale oil and gas natural gas particular have done has created energy security for the U.S., right? Really no other country in

the world has it like the U.S. And that's it's all because of U.S. shale, oil and natural gas production, right?

And so when you have energy security yourself, that is really an advantage as a country. U.S. can also over the longer term, not only provide energy

security, here domestically, but also globally, as well, by exporting more and more volumes of natural gas in particular, and oil.

If we export more natural gas to Europe, to India, as you know, as well as China, that's decarbonizing as well, because that natural gas actually is

going to be displacing coal, right? So that does gonna - so that's decarbonizing as well. And I think it's pretty an integral part of the - as

part of the energy transition as well.

So shale has a really important role and will play an important role and has the ability to increase production. As soon as we solve this, you know,

this this puzzle with regards to what OPEC is going to produce and then ultimately, what the Iran sanctions and what's going to happen with them?

CHATTERLEY: Yes, there's a domino effect here. And I think we need to separate out what's happening in terms of the oil market, but also, and to

your point here with bringing in shale, what's going on in the gas market, because by my understanding, in terms of the daily amount that Europe's

buying, it dwarfs what America produces in total, and 40 percent of what America produces, in terms of natural gas is committed elsewhere.

So it comes back to the original question I asked, but didn't, which is, how easy is it? In essence, if we're talking about a timeframe of six to

nine months for the U.S. to say fine, we're not buying Russian energy and for the Europeans to say we're going to reduce our reliance by 80 percent.

How feasible do you think if everything works?

THUMMEL: Yes, so six to nine months is very, is very difficult. So you go to the stats exactly Julia. I mean U.S. exports of natural gas are about 12

let's call it BCF a day, that's units, right? You are sorry, Europe, imports of Russian natural gas are 15 BCF a day.

So think about it, we started building U.S. liquefied natural gas facilities in 2016, they've ramped up their volume, so that 12 BCF a day

I'm talking about, basically, last month, that's taken, you know, six, seven years, right?

So it's gonna take a series of years, to increase the export capacity of liquefied natural gas out of the U.S., that will be part of the solution,

though, for Europe, or it should be part of the solution for Europe. But it won't be the only solution, you're going to need other sources and in the

short term, Europe probably going to have to increase domestic gas production a bit.

And in addition, unfortunately, you're probably going to have to reverse a little bit and go backwards on energy transition temporarily. And really

consume more coal, potentially, and continue to use nuclear power until other source supply sources that are secure. Again, it can result and the

U.S. could be one of those and there could be others as well from other LNG producers in the world.

CHATTERLEY: I think at the point where Elon Musk is tweeting, as the biggest electric carmaker in the world that we need to ramp up oil and gas

production in the short term that the realization I think as hit for ordinary people as well, not to mention the high prices that we're seeing.

Well, I have about a minute left, can you envisage a situation where Russia turns around and sees, OK, I'm turning off the taps be at oil, or be at

gas. And what would the oil price specifically go to do you think if that did happen?

THUMMEL: Yes. Yes, so you got to look kind of look at those both commodities a bit separately, but Russia is a major supplier of energy to

the world, right? Second largest producer of oil in the world so right now, the global oil market actually is already under supplied, we don't have

enough supply to meet the current demand.

So if you take all your oil production, the second largest country in the world off the market, your price is going up, and it's going up a lot very

significantly. You know, similarly, with natural gas. The good thing about natural gas is that we're entering into a period of time when you don't use

as much natural gas because typically natural gas is used for home heating.

So oil, but you have to think about it from the other side, too, you know, right? Sure needs revenue for the country and oil and gas are a significant

source of revenue for the country. So you know, geopolitical I think it probably makes a lot more sense for countries to evaluate banning Russian

imports and I think it's personally highly unlikely that Russia will actually ban exports from their country because of the revenue source and

the significant revenue source that both those commodities reflect.


CHATTERLEY: Yes. Well, great to get your insights. Thank you so much for that Rob Thummel, Managing Director at Tortoise Capital there. OK, the U.S.

Vice President will discuss the issue of supplying combat jets to Ukraine when she visits Poland later. Kamala Harris departed from Joint Base

Andrews a few moments ago.

A visit comes after the Pentagon dismissed Poland's proposal to transfer their MIG fighter jets to the U.S. for delivery to Ukraine saying it was

not tenable. John Harwood joins me now. John, great to have you with us. It's I think the emphasis here is on fear and frustration. It shows you the

challenges of NATO members not wanting to appear in any way aggressive.

But also the fact that you have these border nations like Poland that are saying, look, we want to help we just need support, and a bigger friend,

perhaps to do the hard work, John?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, exactly that's the case. And look, everyone's worried about escalation on various fronts. You know,

Dmitry Peskov is, you know, this morning, said the United States had declared economic war on Russia. What are the implications of that?

We'll set that aside for a second and just talk about the military aspect of this, obviously, NATO countries and the United States want to assist

Ukraine. The question is, with respect to this particular jet swap is one this is from the administration's perspective, one, will these additional

Soviet era jets make a big difference for the Ukrainian Air Force? They have an Air Force, how much will this improve their capacity to resist

Putin's aggression?

And secondly, what does it do to the possibility that if these were to leave from either Poland, or from a NATO Base in Germany, does that provoke

Russian airstrikes? Poland's obviously concerned about that, that's why they issued a proposal saying, well, we'll give them to the U.S. airbase in

Germany, and they can give them to Ukraine.

The United States is concerned well, will Russia then decide that that is an act of war by NATO and strike that Ramstein Air Base? So that's the

challenge is how to assist to the maximum extent possible economically and militarily without provoking an escalation with the world's second greatest

nuclear power after the United States.

CHATTERLEY: That's all the problems John, what about the solution? How do we get around this?

HARWOOD: Well, you know, the United States and NATO have been as aggressive as they think they can in terms of providing any aircraft and various

military, defensive military weaponry to Ukraine. Planes seem to be on a different on a different level.

So Vice President Harris has got her work cut out for her and trying to figure out whether this swap is feasible. It's not - we don't know that

this is ultimately going to get worked out. It might not. But that's something that she's going to have to discuss and figure out if there are

ways that they think past the cost benefit analysis or the risk benefit analysis, in terms of how Russia will respond.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and the daily pleas from the Ukrainian President will continue. John Howard, thank you for that. We're continuing to monitor the

latest developments out of Ukraine stay with CNN.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! As we reported earlier Ukraine and Russia have agreed on six evacuation corridors. A 12 hour ceasefire has been called in

specific areas including Mariupol, which has been surrounded for days.

However, movement from the worst hit areas has been limited with reports that Russian forces are blocking people in one corridor north of Kyiv.

Ukraine's military says "It's difficult to trust the occupier after Russia repeatedly broke promises it would allow people to get out".

Scott McLean is in Lviv for us, Scott, the pray and hope here is that people can escape during this 12 hour period. But the reports are it seems

that these corridors are complicated to say the least.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, you have two parties that are literally at war that have to agree on these very fine details of exactly

where and when and how these corridors will move? They have to agree on what will come in and who exactly will be able to leave and that seems to

be increasingly difficult on the ground, though there has been some bright spots, some little bits of success thus far.

You mentioned Mariupol, Volnovokha those areas have been very difficult. The Ukrainians in recent days have accused the Russians of shelling the

corridors. There were five that the Ukrainians have agreed upon today to allow people to get out and to allow a desperately needed aid to get in.

But there is sort of limited success of those corridors.

So Boucher you mentioned is a suburb just North of Kyiv, and the Ukrainians. The local city council there says that the Russian military is

blocking the departure of the convoy that's been organized in that area, blocking them from getting out despite the fact that the Russians have

agreed that this corridor would take people to Kyiv, and then from Kiev, obviously, they'd be able to take a train or get out in other ways.

However, we understand that, for instance, the corridor Irpin an area that has taken intense shelling in recent days, that convoy is moving and people

are on their way. There was also one special corridor setup for an orphanage where there was some 50 or so staff and children who were looking

to get out there.

We understand that that corridor has had success, but then, for instance, - that's a town in the east of the country. That one according to local

officials on the ground, there is some fighting in that area, some explosions that have been heard, which seems to be delaying that corridor.

Earlier Brianna Keilar CNN's Brianna Keilar spoke to the Mayor of Kyiv, who said that in Buda, for instance, there were 1000 people as he understood it

in a bunker that have limited access to food and water. And so the situation is increasingly dire.

The one bright spot that I mentioned is the City of Sumi in the Northeast of the country. That is where there were a particularly high number of

foreign students who had been trapped there since the outset of this war.

Yesterday official said that some 5000 people were able to come out of that city. Those students were actually prioritized on the first convoy out

there were more than 700 of them mostly from India. They managed to get out of that city. It was an 11 hour bus ride through the corridor from there

they were immediately put on a train to hear in Lviv.


MCLEAN: That train a couple of hours ago actually arrived. I spoke to some of the students who arrived on it the Indians we missed they were put

directly on a train headed to Poland. But the Nigerian, mostly Nigerian students were headed to Hungary, by bus and they described absolutely

terrifying scenes over the past few days.

Hiding, in bunkers, hearing the sounds of the bombs at one point one student said that she accepted the fact that there was a good chance that

she would not survive. She told her parents as such. Another student told me that at one point, there was an explosion that was so loud, he actually

believed that the building the residents building that he was living in, was hit itself.

It turns out it was a building nearby. But he said, it's not like you just hear the explosions, you actually feel them. And so these people are

obviously very happy to be alive, very happy to be in one pit in one piece. Their journey has been difficult but trusts me; there were no complaints

about that.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, incredibly brave. And what incredible stories you're hearing, and these people are telling you, and I think their families back

home as well, just praying that they make it safely out to you Scott, thank you for joining us.

Now, more than a million refugees have streamed into Poland since the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The U.N. estimates at least 2 million people

are on the move. All those people need food, housing and heat as you were just hearing there.

ShelterBox is an international charity that provides shelter and aid packages worked in Ukraine in 2008 and in the wake of the Crimea invasion

in 2014. It now has a team working on the Polish border and joining us is Kerri Murray President of ShelterBox USA.

Kerri, good to have you with us! I know you're at the Ukraine Polish border yesterday so you have a sense of what's going on. Just give us your

assessment and what the people that you were seeing there were telling you?

KERRI MURRAY, PRESIDENT, SHELTERBOX USA: Sure. ShelterBox was deployed at the Apache Mobile Train Station. And we were seeing thousands of people

coming in. This train station is the main stop for people coming over from Ukraine.

It's the first stop, and so 20,000 people arriving there every day. And yesterday, what I saw mostly women, children, elderly, disabled, lots of

pets, they left with little more than the clothes on their back, maybe a small bag, it's very cold.

And many of these families that didn't know where they were going next. And that's clear. And you know it's incredible to see the Polish community

because yes, 60 percent of the people who fled the 2 million people, over a million now are going into Poland.

And the Polish people are the first responders. They were providing hot meals there, free SIM cards, rides. But these people are going to need a

lot of help. And it's just the bridge and basic needs that they're going to have.

And so at ShelterBox we've been here in Poland, we've been assessing how we can help one in the neighboring countries, including Poland? What are the

needs that people are going to have, and it's everything from hygiene supplies, blankets, jackets, it could be cash allotments.

And we're also looking at how we're mounting a response in Ukraine as well? Many people moving from east to west, and you know, basic needs there as

well. Their homes have been damaged, or they're in shelter services, evacuation centers, sleeping on floors so ShelterBox provides things like

sleeping mats, mattresses, blankets, and even shelter kits, repair kits that help repair these damaged homes.

So we're looking to help thousands and thousands of families. But right now, this is a very fast moving crisis. It's changing. And we just stand

committed with many other humanitarian organizations in trying to help these displaced families.

CHATTERLEY: I mean so many questions come to mind when you're saying that, particularly the U.N. saying this could be as many as seven and a half

million people that it's not going to stop. And you have to consider those that you have now and to your point that they don't necessarily have

somewhere to go on to but also how many more people are coming.

Just in light of what we're discussing today Kerri the corridors that are being negotiated. And there are concerns about whether or not the

ceasefires are being held to. How important are these for the help that you provide the aid that goes in just give us a sense of just how important it

is that the both sides adhere to what's been agreed?

MURRAY: Yes, they're absolutely essential. We can't do our work. The international humanitarian aid communities that are going to go in and help

to save lives cannot do our work if these corridors are not open.

We have to advocate for the open access, and so people can leave, but the humanitarian transportation can go in with relief supplies we have to be

able to access these corridors are essential to our work.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, the other thing I think that you're dealing with and it's almost like we've forgotten it in our coverage on a daily basis is

the pandemic.


CHATTERLEY: That's still going on. Kerri how are you managing all that? And how are your people imagining all that, in addition to everything else that

you're trying to analyze and assess?

MURRAY: Yes, well, it underscores the work that - it underscores the work that we do at ShelterBox every day. So the importance of your home to your

health and safety and obviously mitigating the spread of COVID-19. So it makes us just the urgent work that we do even more urgent, because we have

to help protect these families.

And you know, when they're in crowded collective centers and evacuation centers, they don't have the ability to social distance and isolate their

families. So our work becomes even more critical. And so we have to be able to get these aids to the families that need it most.

CHATTERLEY: What do you need Kerri? Is it money, more support? How you liaising with the Ukrainian government, if at all, and other NGOs that are

working there? What do you need at this moment for those that might be watching this?

MURRAY: So for an organization like ShelterBox, we relied on private charitable support people who see this and want to help people in the world

they'll never meet. But this is a moment in time that we can make a difference and we have to.

So people can make a contribution to our work. There are a lot of organizations doing really good work, leave it up to the experts that are

here on the ground working. Everyone wants to pack the box and send it. It is incredibly complex, the logistics of getting aid into these countries.

You've heard about the issues with these corridors, you have to rely on these organizations. And the nice thing is we're here we're working

together. We're part of the logistics cluster, the shelter cluster here. We're organizing with us and other nonprofits. And we are working fast and

furiously to really help make a difference in the lives of these families.

CHATTERLEY: Kerri, it must be heartbreaking, I think, for you and your team. Do you really feel like this is making a huge difference?

MURRAY: We're trying. I met a woman yesterday. She was with her 10-year-old son, she had travelled for five days by foot by bus and then by train. And

while she had her 10-year-old son with her, she had to leave her 22-year- old son behind and he had to stay men between the ages of 18 and 60 have to stay in fight.

And it was incredibly hard for her. She didn't know if and when she's going to be able to go home and see her son. And so people have their families

ripped apart. And they just need the basic supplies. We have to help these families, both the ones that are fleeing into the neighboring countries,

but also the people that are stuck in Ukraine.

This is a massive humanitarian issue for the people who are left behind fighting we have to help them.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Kerri, thank you for being there! Thank you to you and your team and for joining us today. Kerri Murray President of ShelterBox

USA there thank you! We're back after this.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! The humanitarian crisis in Ukraine is growing as more people are evacuated from the worst affected areas some business

owners are facing the challenge to of staying online and relocating their staff.

Software firm Intellias is one of Ukraine's biggest tech companies. Since the invasion, its CEO has been working to move his employees and his family

out of conflict zones and into safety. Vitaly Sadler, CEO and Co-Founder of Intellias and he joins us now from Lviv. He's also President of the IT

Ukraine Association.

Vitaly, thank you for your time today! I know you are moving very quickly before the conflict started to get your people to safety. Are they all at

least safe for now in Lviv?

VITALY SEDLER, CEO & CO-FOUNDER, INTELLIAS: Yes, we have more than 1200 people from unsafe territories to the western part of Ukraine;

unfortunately, it's not all people who had to move. So some, something like this 3 to 400 people are still in central and eastern parts of Ukraine.

And as the location now is, is much more difficult in the last four or five days, we are now working case by case trying to locate those people who

left who stay still in those areas. And so we moved many of our people to Western Ukraine, and also the most more than 350 women and kids outside of


So men cannot leave Ukraine at the moment on - even their kids can leave. So we also support more than all those, all our employees, women employees

and also family members together with kids to offices in - to Kharkiv.

CHATTERLEY: I mean you find that the cost of moving you're also paying your workers in advance, I believe simply so that they have enough cash.

SEDLER: And if we do this, so we are people centric company, of course, we care a lot about how our people feel and we support them financially

support them organization, for example, out away from risk and unsafe territories. So this financial support cost us basically millions.

And it's, of course, it's some burden on the company, but people are most important. So we may not think a lot about money. Now we think about our


CHATTERLEY: I know. You're obviously a man between the ages of 18 and 60. And I'm sure a number of your employees are. Your computer programmers,

your tech geeks forgive the phrase. How do you feel about the prospect of fighting?

SEDLER: Well, probably software engineers are not best fighters in the world. On one hand, on the other hand, for Ukraine, software engineering IT

industry is very important in economic sense, right?

So we bring a lot of revenue into the country, we created hundreds of thousands of highly paid positions, highly paid jobs in the country. So

basically, we see as our key focus for today is to bring back to restore our delivery process and continue economic activity in the country so that

the money flows into the country on one hand.

On the other hand, we really provide this by working by sitting at the keyboards it helps people to really be not so much distracted as they were

when the war started. So doing our job today is important. It supports people it supports the economy of the country. And that's what we push for.

That's what we ask our people to do now.

CHATTERLEY: You raised a really important point, which is that there are many battles being fought here that the physical, the violent, but also the

economic battle that's taking place and how it's punishing the economy and punishing people at the same time.

I think one of the big fears and concerns was the risk of cyber-attacks and cyber threats. Can I just ask you about how resilient Ukraine is given your

experience and your representation in the IT industry? And what you make of what you've seen so far that that we believe is emanating from Russia.

SEDLER: Right. First, cybersecurity attacks from Russia on to Ukraine happened many years ago, right? So it happened after they invaded Ukraine

in 2014. So basically since that time, it's six, seven years Ukraine was preparing to counter fight those cyber-attacks.


SEDLER: And I think for today we are much better prepared than we were in the past. So those cyber-attacks that I have seen over the last couple of

weeks, they're not critical to our IT infrastructure on the state level. So I would trust our cybersecurity, cybersecurity teams that mean digital

transformation powerful enough to have our IT systems secured.

CHATTERLEY: Do you worry that there is a threat that Russia could destabilize some of the more key infrastructure? Or do you think perhaps,

given the limitations we appear to be seeing on the military side, actually, their capabilities aren't as great as feared.

SEDLER: I think Russia will use all possible ways to destabilize the country. So that's economical ways right, military wise, also cybersecurity

ways on one hand. But on the other hand, Ukraine has proven that it can push back Russians docs, and it can stay strong and keep the country up and

running, right?

And this also concerns cybersecurity issues. So again, our teams I'm quite confident they will push back on all this kind of threats and all these

kind of attempts to destabilize the country in the IT space.

CHATTERLEY: Vitaly it is interesting, we've been talking about cybersecurity, but I was just thinking back to what you said about the

separation of the women and the children and the people that have stayed behind. And I know you also separated from your wife and your family and

your daughter who've left as well.

What do you want people to understand about what Ukraine is going through? And what it's like to be suddenly separated from the people you love most

in the world?

SEDLER: Yes, its hard situation, you know. You could never imagine that this could happen in the middle of Europe, right? So we a peaceful country,

and I was living my life I was building business, I am still doing this fine, but just this huge change in one day, you cannot really understand

this, you cannot understand why this happens and how this will develop?

So I can you always hear about wars here and there in the world, but you cannot really think about what - how it can be - how it can impact your

country and your life? So that's very stressful, honestly. And, of course, for me personally, it was very important to keep my family safe.

So basically, second day, I had to push a little bit of my wife and two of my grandma's so that they really leaves the country to be in a safe place

in Poland. Then my wife came back and so she's here with me to support me because she she's my family and her family right? So we stayed together.

But of course it's very - it's - that's its very difficult. And look we are here in Western Ukraine right? So it's little calmer and little more safe

here. So I can only imagine what people would come from eastern and central parts of Ukraine would feel?

When their family members are killed or lost somewhere also they have to really go with one bag of stuff. Just leaving everything that happens life

and flee for non-time you know non-directional so that's the tragedy. And again, middle of Europe so we're building our communities. We are building

our contents and this happens I can really not understand how this has been 21st century?

CHATTERLEY: I think you use the word and its tragedy. Vitaly, we wish you well we wish your family well and safe. Vitaly Sedler CEO of Intellias

thank you sir!

SEDLER: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: We're back after this stay with CNN.



CHATTERLEY: And we end today with a powerful piece of music a hymn heard in the City of Lviv. It was shared on Twitter by my colleague Jim Sciutto

earlier today. And Jim tells us the words are based on "My Testament" by the famous Ukrainian poet Shevchenko. It begins "When I'm dead bury me in

my beloved Ukraine". Our coverage continues after this.