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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Ukrainian Drone Unit helps Target Russian Vehicles; EU Allows State Aid for Firms Hit by Ukraine War; Estonia Decides to Stop Importing Russian Gas; Humanitarian Crisis Deepens; More than 4.3 Million People have Fled Ukraine; NATO Secretary General Speaks amid Russian Attack on Ukraine. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired April 07, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: You're watching CNN; I'm Julia Chatterley in New York. Russia still wants the whole of Ukraine. The
warning from the NATO Secretary General comes as foreign ministers meet this hour, they will hear a singular and familiar message from Ukraine,
send more help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: I came to Brussels to participate in the NATO ministerial and to hold bilateral meetings was
Elyse, my agenda is very simple. It has only three items on it, its weapons, weapons, and weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And we'll be hearing from NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg again this hour and we will bring that to you live. It comes as
Russia's advanced concentrates on the east of the nation and as Russian forces fully withdraw from areas near Kyiv and Chernihiv, according to a
senior U.S. defense official.
But as the Russian forces pull back, more atrocities emerge. At least two people lost their lives. Five others were hurt after a humanitarian
distribution hub was targeted in the Donetsk town of Rwanda, that according to Ukrainian military officials.
We warn you what you're about to see is graphic video of a murder on a highway in western Kyiv. Maksim Ivanka was gunned down in cold blood, even
as he raised his hands in surrender. His wife Sania was also killed.
The family confirmed their identities to CNN. This evidence of war crimes was captured by a drone, technology that's playing an increasing role in
the conflict as Fred Pleitgen reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It's like a scene from the gates of hell. The deadly strewn across this Highway
west of Kyiv some steel next to the wreckage of their vehicles as the dogs roam around, looking to scavenge. This is what Russian forces left behind
when they retreated from here. They organized ambush over there. We're going right now.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Oleksandr Radzikhovsky tells me these were civilians gunned down from this position where the Russians had placed a tank.
OLEKSANDR RADZIKHOVSKY, BUGATTI COMPANY/UKRAINE TERRITORIAL DEFENSE FORCES: And you can see it's actually build in the shootings on, you see.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Yes.
RADZIKHOVSKY: And these cars look them sort of in line. There is no car here because they will not let them come. They just showed as soon as they
approach.
PLEITGEN (voice over): The Russian government denies targeting civilians they call such allegations" fake and propaganda", but Oleksandr is part of
a drone unit and they filmed one incident. It was March 7 when the Russians were still in full control of this area.
And a group of cars was driving down the highway. They turned around after apparently taking fire from the tank position. This car stops and the
driver gets out, then this.
RADZIKHOVSKY: He's raised his hand above his head. And in this moment he was shooting by on this place.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Two people were killed that day. Maksim Ivanka and his wife who was also sitting in the vehicle, the family has confirmed the
identities to CNN. After the incident, the drone filmed a Russian troops getting two further people out of the car and taking them away.
It was coupled six year old son and a family friend traveling with them the relatives confirmed both were later released by the Russians. The soldiers
then search Maksim's body and drag him away, this incident both traumatizing and motivating for Oleksandr's drone unit.
RADZIKHOVSKY: In normal life before the war we were civilians who liked to fly drones around casually and just like making nice video YouTube videos.
But when the war began, we become actually a vital part of the resistance.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Oleksandr sent us hours of video showing his team scoping out Russian vehicles, even finding them when they're hidden and
almost impossible to spot. And then helping the Ukrainians hit them.
RADZIKHOVSKY: We are eyes, we call eyes because with eyes you can see and you can report as soon as you see you can conduct strikes artillery,
airstrikes.
PLEITGEN (on camera): How long does it take to get your information to the right places to then be able to act on the intelligence that you provide?
RADZIKHOVSKY: In good time, it's about matter of minutes.
PLEITGEN (voice over): And sometimes a little mosquito can take out a whole herd of elephants. This is drone footage of Oleksandr's unit searching for
a massive column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles. And this is that column after the drones founded.
Oleksandr tells me units like his played a major role fending off Russian troops despite the Ukrainians being vastly outgunned.
RADZIKHOVSKY: We agile as a total offense we can, we don't want to just like it's - damage we need to go. But the army they have to stay the order
to stay, they stay. They dine but they stay in the holding this put the ground.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Nobody knows how many Russians died here but the group says it was many taken out with the help of the band of amateur drone
pilots looking to defend their homeland. Fred Pleitgen, CNN - Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[09:05:00]
CHATTERLEY: Meanwhile, curfews have been announced around Bucha as it becomes clear that Russian troops left behind a deadly legacy. Official
saying more than 1500 pieces of unexploded ordinance were found on Wednesday.
Phil Black joins us now from the Lviv. Phil, so beyond the human atrocities and the devastation of infrastructure and buildings, the city is
effectively booby trapped, too.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Julie, we had some reports about this, from the very earliest moments of Russia's withdrawal
from this from these areas. Mines is one thing that other explosives, booby traps, even bodies were said to be wired with explosives to be disturbed to
be detonated when disturbed.
And yet there's apparently vast numbers of these things through the region, that 1500 number that you mentioned, that applies just to the key of region
itself. And as the Ukrainian authorities point out, the Russians have pulled out a much wider stretch of territory.
So it's going to take a lot of time to go through and make sure that every house, every street, every yard, it's all safe for people to return. And so
that's why people are still being told to stay away.
That's why we are told that's the primary reason why a curfew is being enforced. There's another reason too, and that is because we are told that
people have returned to Bucha. Not because they live in these homes, but because they are looting some of these homes. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's really heartbreaking, isn't it, whether you're going back there for simply just wanting to return or otherwise? Clearly, we're
seeing an escalation of violence as anticipated in the eastern southern parts of the country top Phil, but I want to talk about what the Deputy
Prime Minister said.
And that was the establishing of 10 evacuation corridors, including one in Mariupol, I believe to what can you tell us about that?
BLACK: Yes, so 10 is the number of the daily corridors. These corridors are worked out by negotiations between the two sides; it has to be by mutual
agreement, because they tend to travel through Russian controlled territory into Ukrainian controlled territory.
And on days like this, what it means is you might get 5000 people or more, being able to make their own way out of these very intense, dangerous
places to safety, within Ukrainian controlled territory.
But there's still a fundamental flaw in these systems and particularly when it comes to Mariupol, the Russians are not letting vehicles and aid go the
other way. So we've heard for much of this week how the Red Cross has been trying to get a convoy of vehicles into Mariupol.
First of all to deliver aid because the situation the humanitarian situation there is so dire, but also to bring out people in buses, who
don't have their own private means of transportation? And that is the point that the Russians repeatedly when they get there, when these when these aid
convoys get there on the ground, they block their access.
Even though according to the Red Cross, according to Ukrainian officials, the Russian leadership has authorized these movements, what they're coming
up against his checkpoints on the ground that simply will not let them in. And that is undoubtedly having an impact on the humanitarian situation in
Mariupol in particular.
CHATTERLEY: Yes and the numbers that are getting out dwarfed by those that remain in those kinds of challenging conditions, desperate conditions.
Phil, good to have you with us, thank you, Phil Black there in Lviv.
To Brussels now, NATO foreign ministers have just finished a meeting on Ukraine and discussed whether to expand military aid. Ukraine's Foreign
Minister is calling on the alliance to supply more weapons.
Nic Robertson joins us live from NATO headquarters, Nic; you made their message very clear. And we played it earlier weapons, weapons, weapons
after a week of witnessing the atrocities in cities like Bucha. Is there the desire the will the determination to provide more?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: There is, the question is what? We know that NATO has turned down the previous request from
Ukraine to supply it with fighter jets, which will give it greater dominance in the skies.
NATO prefers to look at giving surface to air missiles recently providing some quite sophisticated high tech versions of British doing that, and also
providing more sophisticated surface to air weaponry.
But what they're looking at doing now, that NATO and as best we know, at the moment that the foreign ministers word Judah have wrapped about now.
But as best we know at the moment here on the ground, at least, they may still be talking, though have some foreign ministers have come out.
The Norwegian foreign minister was up here a few minutes ago. However, it seems that some conversations are still ongoing. And I think that speaks to
this tension, internal tension at NATO over what can be supplied Ukraine is going into a much harder phase of the war coming up.
That's what's expected longer and tougher because Russia has regrouped. It will be less overextended it will offer less easy targets. So the talk is
providing tanks of providing armored vehicles, we know that the Australians are going to provide armored vehicles that will allow the Ukrainians to get
their infantry closer to the frontlines and be less in harm's way.
[09:10:00]
ROBERTSON: And that's important for the battles where they won't be able to perhaps sneak up and pick off Russian tanks and armor from the roadside, as
readily as they did near Kyiv. Also the supply lines logistics, that's a very important part of sustaining the war.
And that's something else that NATO is looking at coordinating, collaborating with each other, and most importantly, trying to find
consensus on. And that consensus issue, I think, is where they're at, at the moment trying to reach that final agreement.
CHATTERLEY: Nic, thank you so much for that update there. And we'll continue to watch for the remaining ministers that continue to talk to your
point and see perhaps what they say as they exit to. Nic Robertson, thank you for that. We're back after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. Heavy fighting between Russian and Ukrainian forces is now being reported in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine. A
full blown ground war in the east now appears to be underway.
Although NATO officials meeting in Brussels today believe Russian President Putin still has his eyes on capturing the whole of Ukraine, those comments
from the NATO Secretary General of course.
Now the EU's top diplomat Joseph Burrell said a new round of sanctions punishing Putin for the invasion as well as atrocities being uncovered in
Bucha and elsewhere could be announced by the end of the week.
The EU is continuing to discuss new energy sanctions on Moscow, with officials reportedly targeting mid-August as a date to completely phase out
imports of Russian coal. The EU also green lighting fresh aid to businesses hard hit by the Ukraine war.
It will let member states compensate firms for up to 30 percent of their energy costs and will allow further state support for companies too. The EU
however, warning the amounts will be nowhere near the aid provided during the worst of the Coronavirus pandemic.
Margrethe Vestager joins us now, she's the Executive Vice President of the European Commission and the European Commissioner for competition too,
fantastic to have you on the show as always.
MARGRETHE VESTAGER, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: Thank you for having me.
CHATTERLEY: Great to have you with us. You're also the CO lead for the long term strategy in particular reducing strategic dependencies which captures
my attention and I think everybody else is in light of what we're seeing.
Nothing is more pivotal at this moment than reducing European reliance on Russian oil and gas. Joseph Burrell said this week that 35 billion Euros
has been provided to Russia for energy supplies since this invasion began. I think whether you're a leader or a consumer that number is - it's
heartbreaking.
[09:15:00]
VESTAGER: Yes, it is. Looking at the results of the Russian brutality on ground, no, nothing can answer that, except, of course, that those
responsible are put to justice. So on ground now, the Ukrainians with assistance from us, among others, are collecting the evidence of these war
crimes. But we will continue to work on sanctions and nothing is off the table.
CHATTERLEY: Should EU citizens be viewing that money as directly financing this war? Every time we leave a light on, for example, we needlessly waste
energy; we're contributing to European vulnerability.
VESTAGER: I think that that is really difficult to bear. But I do take your point that everyone can do something, you know, not everyone can house a
Ukrainian mother and her children. But everyone can, you know, go slower on the highway or cut their showers into or make sure that the light is, is
turned off.
Everyone can contribute here, of course, systemically, it's really important that the union that I work in and every member state do their
part. But every citizen can do something to help cut the financing of this war.
CHATTERLEY: I think it's such an important message to send I know the aim is to reduce the alliance across the EU by near 80 percent, just under by
the year end, which I think would be incredibly swift and ambitious. And clearly there are skeptics, has the commission modeled what the impact
would be of a swift to ban?
VESTAGER: Well, we haven't done yet. We're in the process of doing so. We think that by the end of the year, we can have decreased our dependency on
gas with two thirds, that's really ambitious. And it takes of course, a number of suppliers to help out with liquefied gas for much more renewable
to kick in our grid much faster.
But as said, also for, for every citizen to pay their part, it can be done even faster. And we're in the processing process of modeling how that will
happen. But obviously, it will not come without effect. Also on our side, I think everyone should be absolutely clear about it.
But this is a global situation, the fallout of this war, maybe food shortages in a number of countries in Northern Africa. So I think it's
really important that everyone realizes that we have to do something together. And one of the things I'm really grateful of is the cooperation
between the EU and the U.S. on the sanctions, because that is what drives this economic response to the war.
CHATTERLEY: Commissioner, you understand the power of lobbyists, I think well than most people in places like Brussels or in Washington DC to your
bigger point there. There are those that say if the lobbyists weren't so powerful at this moment that would also play a role and enable this time
line to be reduced. What's your response to that?
VESTAGER: I think it's our responsibility in leadership to see through what is wasted interest. What is it that we're being presented with they just
want to prolong a very good business and what is real concerns about fallout on ground that cannot be mended or remedied.
So I think it's really important now that leaders come together, seek as much information as possible, and then call through to make sure that we
got the economic ties that finances the atrocities that we see on ground.
CHATTERLEY: It makes sense. You've also provided support loosened state aid rules to allow nations as I mentioned in the introduction to provide a
degree of financial support. The message has been look, it's more targeted, it's not the kind of grand scale support that was provided during the
pandemic. Do you stand ready, though; to provide looser conditions to allow more should it be required?
VESTAGER: Yes, we will follow the situation on ground as it develops. In the pandemic, you know, governments would tell businesses to close their
door for customers to stay at home completely unprecedented situation.
Blanket support was needed for businesses to hibernate. Then we saw the effects of the recovery coming about very strongly before the war. Now with
the energy crisis and the war, you see many businesses being affected by higher energy prices and of course, a number of businesses being hit by
sort of the reverse effect of sanctions.
[09:20:00]
VESTAGER: So we follow very closely what are the needs, what are the needs on ground in order to make sure that we can accommodate while maintaining
of course, that we have kind of a level playing field. So every member state can see them in what we're doing.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating. I was going to ask you about that. Back to the traditional playbook, which is competition concerns, particularly
where you've got perhaps businesses, nations working together at this stage. You can maintain a focus on that, or does that sort of some degree,
go out the window in a crisis situation like this?
VESTAGER: I think it's, it's really important both to have sort of a short term and a long term perspective at the same time, because eventually,
we'll have to recover. There need to be rebuilt at some time, I don't know when the war will be over.
And we will need to produce a new prosperity, new, new wealth in order to be able to rebuild. And in order to do that, we need a single marker that
works, we need global trade for all what that is worth right now. And we need to supply change to work. And I think it's important to think about
both at the same time. But we can do so much more on a short term basis without sacrificing a future that will finance the recovery and the
rebuilding also of Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: It's fascinating; it's very difficult to see so far into that future as you're alluding to there. But this war is exacerbating dividing
lines between big nations or collections of nations around the world, China, India, the EU, the United States.
And it's the flexing of power of the muscle for a financial system that's oiled by the U.S. dollar. Do you think we look back on this as a pivot
point where we see an acceleration of the strategic autonomy that Emmanuel Macron, President Emmanuel Macron talks about a lot?
Because that would have devastating consequences for global issues, like climate change, for example, like poverty, like inequality. Do we look back
on this as a desperately bad pivot point?
VESTAGER: Well, you know, I thought that, that the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the unification of Germany and Europe would be, you know, the biggest
things that I would ever experience in my lifetime. But I think this will be much bigger, only deeply, deeply negative.
The European Union is changing by the hour, Member States coming together. The relationship we have with the U.S. and this is unprecedented. It is
strong, it is direct. It is hands on. I think it's important for the rest of countries.
We have a lot of support in the Security Council, but also for others, to see that this is a global situation. Because when you have the Russians
attacking tractors in the fields, burning grains that were supposed to be so that in the coming weeks, well, then you also see that this is targeting
people who need breads in North African countries. So the fallout of this war is not a European thing. It's a global matter.
CHATTERLEY: Margrethe Vestager, always great to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time.
VESTAGER: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Executive Vice President of the European Commission and the European Commissioner for competition. Now, NATO foreign ministers have
just concluded their meeting in Brussels as evidence of Russian atrocities mounts in Ukraine.
As the meeting began, the nation's foreign minister urged NATO to provide more weapons. And as the EU discusses a new round of sanctions, one Nation
is making a bold decision. Estonia, which has the border with Russia, saying it will stop buying gas from its neighbor.
Joining us now is Estonia's Foreign Minister, Eva-Maria Liimets Foreign Minister, fantastic to have you on the show with us. A bold move,
announcing an end to gas imports from Russia. Can you give us a timeline? How quickly can you do this?
EVA-MARIA LIIMETS, ESTONIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: For us, of course, it is very important that we continue to have our united approach with regard to
sanctions. And I'm really proud about the union, because this week, we see another package of sanctions coming.
And there is more and more countries coming together and asking for stronger sanctions from the EU side. So we continue to go forward to put
political pressure to Russia to end this unjustified and unprovoked war in Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: How quickly can you do it?
LIIMETS: We are prepared to do it as within this year, definitely. But we understand that some countries have to they don't need a longer time. But
this is something that we are going currently discussing also together with European Commission. How Commission can help with that energy security and
this is something that will end soon. The money flows from Europe to Russia.
[09:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: Is it frustrating to you Foreign Minister, I'm sure you just heard the conversation that I was having there with the competition
Commissioner 35 billion Euros being paid to Russia, by EU nations just in the past five to six weeks.
LIIMETS: This is, of course, unfortunate to see because when we compare it to the financial support that we have given to Ukraine at the same time,
then this number is proportionally big. So therefore, these steps that we are currently putting forward within the European Union are very important.
And we really must end this financial inflow to Russia so that Russia cannot finance its foreign Ukraine any longer. Because what we saw all
these pictures, what we saw over the weekend with regard to massive killings of civilians saying in Bucha, this, these facts are absolutely
change the public opinion in our societies. And because of that, we go quickly forward with these decisions to end financial flows to Russia.
CHATTERLEY: Foreign Minister, you raise a very important point. The President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, when he was speaking about those atrocities
called it genocide, are those kinds of words being discussed among the ministers today, do you see this as genocide?
LIIMETS: All these massive killings of civilian's rape or sexual violence against the children, women, these go much beyond what we can bare. And of
course, we must all come together to end this violations in Ukraine.
I think that it does not matter that much how we call it, whether we call them war crimes or genocide, you have seen that village by village people
are killed in Ukraine and international immunity, of course, mashed together to support the end of this war.
And of course, at the same time, we must continue to document all these war crimes on the ground and all the perpetrators must be taken into the court
for these actions. There should be no, there must be these people must be accountable for their actions.
CHATTERLEY: Foreign Minister, another great point you raise that definitions don't matter in the short term when actions and responses
matter more. What was discussed with the foreign ministers today, and will the provision of weapons, greater weapons and the kind of weapons that
Ukraine is asking for be it tanks, or artillery weapons to be provided? Is that greater commitment, in light of what we've seen this week to provide
those kinds of weaponry?
LIIMETS: After these very unfortunate pictures of atrocities that we saw, of course, we continue to discuss how we can respond to - request also
President Zelenskyy's request with regard to delivery of weapons.
And here different countries have different perspective, different possibilities to provide additional support to Ukraine. From our
perspective, of course, we must continue to give a political, economic, humanitarian, but also defensive support to Ukraine.
And Estonia itself has delivered so far. Military equipment for 220 million of Euros per capita, we are in the third place at the moment. So we really
hope that we continue the same way, because Ukrainian Ukrainians need our support, to defend their country to people, but also the democratic values
for which they are standing for at the moment in their country.
CHATTERLEY: 220 million Euros of weaponry and aid a country of 1.3 million people. I think the argument there that I'll make for you is that bigger
nations richer nations, in fact, in Europe can do more at this moment.
I want to get back to what we were discussing with the payments for oil and gas energy supplies. Your Prime Minister has suggested that some of that
money, that money in fact, all of it should go into an escrow account.
And some of that money could be used to help Ukraine rebuild, I noticed was discussed among the leaders. Is there a commitment can you reach a deal
between the nations of the EU to agree to do that, or are some nations resisting it?
LIIMETS: Yes, what we see at the moment in Ukraine that there are destroyed cities. And of course, as we have seen Russia bumping all the cities then
Russia must be taken accountable for these damages in Ukraine. And therefore we have suggested making this SQL account.
[09:30:00]
LIIMETS: So that part of the gas payments or oil payments goes to Russia, but other parts go to a special fund. And from this fund, we could continue
to finance rebuilding Ukraine. Because it's very important to think also about the future, how we can rebuild Ukraine and also that Russia is
accountable for these damages and must also to help to rebuild this.
CHATTERLEY: Can we get an agreement with EU leaders to do that to use some of the energy money to rebuild?
LIIMETS: This is something that we continue to discuss on upcoming Monday, we are having another foreign minister's councils and of course, this
Ukraine as a whole, but also this continues to be on our table. And we I hope that we will find solution, how Russia is contributing to rebuilding
Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: Foreign Minister one more question. The UK is top diplomat to NATO said something today that caught my attention. And it ties to
Estonia's decision to close the Russian Consulate. She said the age of engagement with Russia is over. Do you agree with that?
LIIMETS: Yes, after we have seen that Russia has started to sign justified and unprovoked war in Ukraine, of course, we are very much agreeing that
they must continue to isolate Russia politically. Because it is, of course not appropriate to speak about developing bilateral relations at the moment
with Russia.
And therefore, we also decided to narrow our bilateral relations and also close the two consulates in Estonia because of that.
CHATTERLEY: So diplomacy won't work.
LIIMETS: At the moment, yes, we have seen that Russia has not been interested in diplomacy, because we had all the channels open when we
recall our dialogue in the beginning of the year. But in spite of this, Russia started; they saw unjustified war in Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: Foreign Minister of Estonia, Eva-Maria Liimets. Thank you so much for your time today. Now, with Russian forces turning their focus on
eastern Ukraine, officials are rushing to get civilians out of the area. CNN's Ivan Watson reports from onboard a train that's carrying people to
safety.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): To explain where I am, I'm on an evacuation train. So this is loaded with about 1100
passengers, all evacuees who are traveling for free from eastern Ukraine. And there'll be traveling for about 24 hours total to Lviv to safety.
So the people here have come I've spoken to some of them from Kharkiv in the north from Mariupol in the southeast. And from the areas around
Zaporizhzhia, one woman weep crying telling me that her village was being hit daily by Russian artillery.
I'm just going to take you in a little bit here. So this train is not as packed as the trains were about a month ago with crowds at the train
stations. But it's still a vital transport link. The Ukrainian government says about 50 percent of the countries passengers were moving on the
railroad system before the war started.
So it's still very, very important. The government in the east of the country its - mission military is destroying railroad links, which again
serve this vital purpose. But this train is full of passengers it will pick up more people and it will continue on its 24 hour journey to take this
kind of precious human cargo to safer parts of the country.
But we saw people emotionally saying goodbye to their loved ones platform. I've spoken to a woman who left her husband and mother in law behind in her
village that was being bombed every day. And this is just part of now daily life since Russia invaded Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Ivan Watson there. We're going to take a break, still to come, millions displaced by war and millions more in urgent need of aid inside
Ukraine, more on the humanitarian crisis after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. Millions have fled Ukraine since the start of the invasion. But more internally displaced people are waiting in towns along
the border, and then are faced with a difficult decision to either build a new life abroad or return to what's left in their country. CNN's Matt
Rivers reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The convoy gets loaded up several times a week. Workers with Hungarian Baptist aid making the several
hour drives from Budapest destination Western Ukraine. Today they're headed to better hold on a quaint town just across the border that's become a
magnet for Ukrainians fleeing the war.
Upon arrival, supplies unloaded by some of the kids staying at the shelter what used to be a school. Inside classrooms, bunk beds replaced desks and
photos of former students hang on the wall above the tiny shoes of the kids staying in the room today.
Like little Ava and her mom Deanna. They fled Kyiv a few weeks ago, leaving behind her husband to fight the Russians. She says we stood there and cried
at the train station. My daughter was so mad at him. She thought he was leaving us.
He said Ava, come give me a kiss. But she wouldn't. Ava just too young to understand the sacrifice her dad is making, like so many other children
here scarred by the war. Even in this safe place, air raid sirens still go off.
RIVERS (on camera): So down here in the school's basement, they're using this as a bomb shelter. And the school's director says that they're coming
down here on average, a couple dozen times every week, even though no bombs have fallen in this area.
But when the children come down here, the director says so many of them are still traumatized. So for instance, the other day it was raining outside
there was a clap of thunder. And a lot of the children screamed, the director said because they thought it was a bomb.
RIVERS (voice over): Aid continues to flow into - in the beginning of the war, it was largely just a stop for refugees fleeing to other countries.
Now they're staying put.
BELA SZILAGYI, PRESIDENT, HUNGARIAN BAPTIST AID: Those who are arriving, they want to stay for the long term, and it certainly requires different
kinds of hosting.
RIVERS (voice over): For Hungarian Baptist aid, more refugees means more need for everything else, including helping hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not really like a war. For me, I feel like it's genocide of Ukrainians.
RIVERS (voice over): Pharmacist Daniel - came to help from Philadelphia, the son of Ukrainian immigrants.
[09:40:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if people come together and come to the country and try to help out, then something actually gets done.
RIVERS (voice over): It's definitely the spirit at a nearby church where a tiny volunteer operation has ramped up to hundreds of meals served every
day as refugees decide to stay long term. The reasons can vary everything from hope that the Ukrainian army will prevail to simply not wanting to
live in a foreign country.
For Dianna, back at the school, the reason to not flee to neighboring Hungary was simple. She says we feel like we're closer somehow closer to my
husband, I will go back the moment. It's safe for my children Matt Rivers, CNN Berehova, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: More than 4.3 million people have fled the country since the war began millions more still in Ukraine, but have been driven out of their
homes, with agencies desperately working to get aid to those who may be stranded. It's a mammoth task.
Kelly Clements joins us now; she's the United Nations deputy High Commissioner, for refugees. Kelly, thank you for joining us, I think the
Humanitarian Chief at the U.N. called it Ukraine's Darkest Hour, which I think says much. What can you tell us about the current situation and the
flows the movement that you're seeing?
KELLY CLEMENTS, U.N. DEPUTY HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES: Well, really, Julia, it remains quite dynamic. Inside the country, you noted the number
of people that are on the move and U.N. estimates now over 7 million, 7.1 million are displaced from their homes.
But there remained some 13 million people that are stranded or that we're not able to access or they're not able to leave where they are currently,
because of insecurity because of shelling for any number of reasons. So the situation in the country is quite dire in some situation in some areas of
the country.
We and other relief agencies can't reach, the government authorities are having difficulties delivering. And in other areas, things are - the people
are starting to return starting to look at potentially what comes next. So every part of the country, there's a different situation currently inside
Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, it's so difficult to quantify this, I know, but do you have any sense of the number of people within Ukraine that have been
displaced. But you actually can't get to them and can't provide support and whichever agency it is, is simply not being able to provide any form of aid
at all?
CLEMENTS: Well, it's just a monumental task because the needs are huge from clean water to drink to safe shelter. We just heard about those living in
basements and trying to keep themselves safe from the shelling and the like, basic protection, basic ways to be able to feed themselves and their
families.
And all of this is required in terms of those that may be displaced but unreachable, that really remains a number that is impossible at this time
to be able to estimate. But we with government authorities and others are trying with partners to reach as many as we can, as areas open up.
We're trying to extend our reach. It's an enormous task. But humanitarian partners and others are really committed to being able to reach as many
people as possible as quickly as possible. The situation as you said, it's one of the darkest hours and it's quite dire.
CHATTERLEY: And great people that are there too. Last week, the High Commissioner said to my colleague, Becky Anderson that you were struggling
to communicate with some of your employees in Mariupol.
And it's stuck with me ever since I just wanted to ask have you managed to make connection with those people in Mariupol so far? And if so how are
they doing?
CLEMENTS: You know, in speaking with a representative in just the last day or two there was one colleague that we had not been able to reach during
the entire stretch of this war since February 24. And we located him yesterday with his family.
So we have now accounted for all of our colleagues, we still have obviously team members inside Mariupol and the situation is quite dire. And as Becky
heard from Filippo Grandi, you know, communication remains desperate, but us being able to get aid in food aid in people out broadly as a U.N. and
humanitarian community. It remains desperate.
CHATTERLEY: How are you advising those that are waiting on the borders and looking to come home and desperately want to come home back to their
families to their men perhaps that have been left behind to fight? How are you advising them?
We reported today that there's unexploded ordinance in Bucha. The situation is you've reiterated many times now is desperate even within Ukraine. Are
you reluctant to advise people to go back home as desperate as they are to do so?
[09:45:00]
CLEMENTS: Well, you know, the choice of where people move what decisions they may take, it is entirely up to them. And we have seen time and time
again, that it's really not a place to sleep, or a blanket or a warm piece of clothing that will keep people in a certain location, its security and
it safety.
And as your previous piece noted, people tend to stay very close to their homes. In this case, as we've talked about, we have a refugee population or
people on the move that are primarily women and children, aged people, those with disabilities.
And they want to they've been separated from husbands and brothers and sons. And they want to stay close to their homes; they want to be able to
return as soon as they can. We have started seeing some small numbers of movements of people going back from neighboring countries into Ukraine. But
this is a very dynamic situation.
And even before the war, there was a lot of cross border movement. So the fact that people are staying close to border areas is not at all a
surprise.
We have to be able to find ways, however to support them to assist them and in depending upon the decision that they make, if they decide to go to
neighboring countries, supporting them in the neighboring countries with the local authorities and the volunteers, as we've heard, that have been
incredibly generous.
CHATTERLEY: I know you're off on the tour as well, Slovakia, Hungary, and the Czech Republic, I believe, imminently to go and assess the situation,
the pressure that's been placed on neighboring countries that to your point are stepping up to support.
You've also asked for donations. $1.7 billion is the sum. How are you doing with that fundraising? And how quickly do you believe you can raise that
money and start dispersing it or continue to disperse?
CLEMENTS: I have to say, we've really seen an outpouring of support from individuals, the private sector, governments, in terms of the humanitarian
needs inside Ukraine and the neighboring countries. But really, this is going beyond humanitarian need alone.
These governments, these local communities, they need longer term support, and they need more sustainable support, their health, education,
employment, labor, all of that are now stretched to the capacity.
And that goes well beyond the humanitarian agencies abilities to be able to support. And what we need more than anything, because depending upon how
this war evolves, this will there will be a need for people to be supported in these communities for longer periods of time.
And that means more support to local municipalities, to governments that really will require the support of the international community for some
time to come.
CHATTERLEY: Months and years of every building in Ukraine when and if we get through this. What's also become clear is that the reception, I think,
and the treatment of Ukrainian refugees, at times is different from refugees from other nations, women, children, in many cases, no less
deserving of support.
Can you just talk to that place and how we adopt greater tolerance, for want of a better phrase in a world where there's so many in need?
CLEMENTS: Well, the end and Julie, you've just mentioned it, I mean, we are looking right now, before the war broke out, we are looking at forcibly
displaced people totaling some 84 million around the world. And now if you add the 11.4 million that are internally displaced and refugees now from
the Ukraine situation, we're now at 95 million.
Now that there are a large number of people in various parts of the globe that require this kind of support. We have a moment, we have a moment of
human compassion, where we've seen doors of communities doors of homes opened up to people in need, refugees that require safety, support, basic
sustenance, a way to be able to support their families.
This isn't different from anywhere else in the world, where there have been hosts and countries that have really opened up their borders to welcome
people in, welcome people that need help. They need the compassion of the world. And this is a moment for us to be able to do more for others,
obviously related to the Ukraine situation, but far beyond.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the same compassion for all. Kelly Clements, U.N. Deputy High Commissioner for Refugees, thank you for your work and to you and your
team as well.
CLEMENTS: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Now the number of fallen soldiers among Ukraine's military remains unclear. But what is certain is that the defenders have
been paying a very high price. Ukraine has been forced to open a new cemetery in Lviv as Jake Tapper reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Grave diggers at like achieve cemetery in Lviv, Western Ukraine today had to break ground and a fresh
field to make room for the new war that. Repurposing the cemeteries adjacent World War II Memorial to find space for the influx.
[09:50:00]
TAPPER (voice over): Today its Ukrainian Army Sergeant will be - 43 killed March 28th and - 33 killed on April 1st, both killed in the Luhansk and the
Donbas region. Both men called to service after the Russians invaded.
The soldier's family started this grim day at the Saints Peter and Paul Garrison Church in Lviv as their caskets past the crowds on the way into
the church their loved ones wept, for those whom they lost to Putin's invading army.
The sounds of grief combined with that of prayer. Inside the - Church built in the 1600s, locals have wrapped historic statues to protect them from
debris in case of expected Russian shelling. After the service, a military tribute as mourners paid respects, and gave flowers to the family flowers
always in even numbers.
Ruslan Stefanchuk the Presiding Officer of the Ukrainian parliament basically the Speaker of the House stopped by to honor the fallen.
RUSLAN STEFANCHUK, PRESIDING OFFICER OF UKRAINIAN PARILAMENT: I come here and to my entire honor and all my heart I put there. Russia is guilty for
everything crimes for everything, genocide, which they do in my left. I want the whole world knows that we never forget for nobody.
TAPPER (on camera): The church is right next to this monument to famous and beloved Ukrainian Poet Shevchenko who was exiled by Russia Czar in the
1800s for advocating for Ukrainian independence from Russia and for human rights. One of Shevchenko's most famous Poems - or testament reads, when I
am dead, bury me in my beloved Ukraine, my tomb upon a grave mound high amid the spreading plane.
TAPPER (voice over): Cars, vans and buses full of mourners traveled the short distance to the cemetery. Caskets were unloaded prayers offered.
YEVHEN BOIKO, REPRESENTATIVE FOR LVIV MAYOR'S OFFICE: Chastity we need to ceremony of burial has been simplified and made shorter in order not to
decrease the morale and the spirit of our other military every day we have two three burials here in Lviv, that is the price for our victory.
TAPPER (voice over): And the military paid tribute with instruments of both art and instruments of war.
BOIKO: We say heroes never die. We bury the body but the glory of these people will live forever in our hearts and in our history.
TAPPER (voice over): A spokesman for the city would only say dozens when asked how many locals have been killed fighting to defend their homeland
from the latest Russian threat the spreading plain here next to - cemetery spreading now in order to make room for the dead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg is speaking from Brussels let's listen in to what he has to say.
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO CHIEF: --Ukraine, so that Ukraine prevails in the face of Russia's invasion. We agree that we must support other regional
partners under pressure, and we agreed to step up cooperation with our partners in the Asia Pacific because the crisis has global ramifications.
Allies utterly condemned the horrific murders of civilians we have seen in Bucha and other places, recently liberated from Russian control. All the
facts must be established. All those responsible for these atrocities must be brought to justice, and allies are supporting efforts for an
international investigation.
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba thank NATO allies for their substantial support. Allies have been doing a lot and are determined to do
more now and for the medium and longer term. To help their brave Ukrainians defend their homes and the country and push back the invading forces.
Allies are also supporting and stepping up humanitarian aid and financial support. We discussed what more we will do including cyber security
assistance, and provide the equipment to help Ukraine protect against chemical and biological threats. Allies agreed that we should also help
other partners to strengthen their resilience and shore up their ability to defend themselves, including Georgia and Bosnia Herzegovina.
[09:55:00]
STOLTENBERG: For Georgia, we could increase our support through the substantial NATO Georgia package, including in areas like situational
awareness, secure communications, and cyber. For Bosnia and Herzegovina, we could develop a new defense capacity building package, and assistance would
be tailored demand driven and delivered with the full consent of the countries concerned.
Today, we're also joined by Georgia, Finland, Sweden and the European Union, as well as NATO's Asia Pacific partners, Australia, Japan, New
Zealand and the Republic of Korea. Because the implications of Russia's invasions are global and will be long lasting and what is happening in
Ukraine is being closely watched around the world.
We have seen that China is unwilling to condemn Russia's aggression. And Beijing has joined Moscow in questioning the right donations to choose the
wrong path. This is a serious challenge to also, it makes it even more important that we stand together to protect our values.
NATO and our Asia Pacific partners have now agreed to step up our practical and political cooperation in several areas, including cyber, new
technology, and countering this information. We will also work more closely together in other areas such as maritime security, climate change, and
resilience, because global challenges demand global solutions.
Ministers also addressed our future relations with Russia. The sanctions introduced by NATO allies and our partners are unprecedented, and they are
damaging President Putin's war machine. We need to continue coordinated pressure to help and this senseless war.
Ministers agreed that NATO's next strategic concept must deliver a response on how we relate to Russia in the future. And for the first time, it must
also take account of how China's growing influence and commercial policies affect our security. The strategic concept will be finalized for the Madrid
Summit in June. It will be the roadmap for the alliances continued adaptation for the more dangerous and competitive world we live in.
Finally, allies proved the charter for our defense innovation accelerator for the North Atlantic or Diana. To start, it will include a network of
around 60 innovation sites in North America and Europe. Working with the private sector, academia, allies will ensure that we can harness the best
of new technology for transatlantic security. And with that, I'm ready to take your questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll start with Wall Street Journal second row.
DAN MICHAELS, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Thank you. Thank you very much. Dan Michaels, Wall Street Journal. Minister Kuleba said this morning and this
afternoon that his agenda here was weapons, weapons and weapons and this afternoon said he needs - Ukraine needs them faster.
He's concerned about the speed of the delivery of the weapons. What can you say about what you and the NATO partners are doing to accelerate deliveries
if that is the case, and especially since as you have said, as he said, the scale of the fighting looks set to happen in Donbas will just be on a whole
another level from what we've seen before? Is Ukraine ready for that kind of fight? Thank you.
STOLTENBERG: Let me just start by reminding everyone on that. NATO allies and NATO have supported Ukraine for many years after the illegal annexation
of Crimea and Russia's first invasion in 2014 also into Donbas. NATO allies and NATO have provided significant support with equipment with training
tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers has been trained.
And then when we saw the intelligence indicating highly likely invasion, allies stepped off last autumn and this winter, then after the invasion
allies have stepped up with additional military support with more military equipment.
And it was a clear message from the meeting today that allies should do more and are ready to do more to provide more equipment and they realize
and recognize the urgency.
END
