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First Move with Julia Chatterley

American Trevor Reed Released by Russia in Prisoner Swap; Ammunition Depot in Russia is Set on Fire; ICC: "There will be a Case to Answer in Due Course" on Alleged War Crimes; CNN gets First-Hand look at Destruction in Kharkiv; Recession Fears Rattle Investors; SpaceX Launches NASA Astronauts to Space Station. Aired 09-10a ET

Aired April 27, 2022 - 09:00   ET



PAULA NEWTON, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: And welcome to everyone joining us from all around the world. I am Paula Newton in New York. You are watching CNN

and we begin with major breaking news from Russia and the release of Trevor Reed, the former U.S. Marine who's been imprisoned in Russia since 2019.

The White House confirming the news in the last hours that he's been freed in a prisoner swap in exchange for a Russian citizen now Trevor Reed's

parents gave their reaction to my colleague Brianna Keilar just a short time ago, I want you to listen to this emotional exchange.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Obviously, we're ecstatic, Joey's here too. Hi, Joey, tell us how you're feeling?


KEILAR: So many prayers.

J. REED: Yes.

KEILAR: So many prayers, your prayers that people that you have reached out to and that have been so aware here of Trevor's plight, can you tell us,

Paula, how you found out that he was going to be released?

PAULA REED, MOTHER OF TREVOR REED: Yes, we found out we got a call from the State Department.

KEILAR: And when was that? Can you tell me about that?

P. REED: I don't think we're allowed to tell you about that. But then we also got a call from the president.

KEILAR: Amazing.

J. REED: As soon as Trevor was released, we were actually on the phone with Trevor when the president called so. And he again, totally gracious and

wonderful and kind and said he looked forward. He looked forward to seeing us in the White House again, so.

KEILAR: And tell us how Trevor's feeling. Tell us what he said about this.

REED: He's, he sounds kind of subdued. I think he's a little overwhelmed.

P. REED: Yes, he seems to be in shock a little bit.

J. REED: They had moved them to another prison. They had moved into a Moscow prison this week, we didn't know that. He went to the same prison

that I think Paul Whelan was held in for a long time, affordable prison. And then they flew him from there to Turkey.

And then to Trevor's quickly told us that they, the American plane pulled up next to the Russian plane, and they walked both prisoners across at the

same time, like you see in the movies.

KEILAR: In Turkey?

J. REED: In Turkey, and they were leaving Turkey, in the air, when he called us and told us this. So they're in route back to we believe to the

United States, but they can't tell us for sure, so.

KEILAR: So do you expect Joey to see him soon?

P. REED: We're not sure. They haven't told us that. We're actually expecting the State Department at our house a minute. They're going to come

and give us more logistics, how things are going to happen. But mostly, we're just glad that obviously he's on his way home, but they also have a

doctor on the plane. So he's getting checked out. And that was our main concern.

KEILAR: Well, Paula, and that's what we've been talking about for so long, right? He has had symptoms of tuberculosis. He was exposed to tuberculosis.

He had been complaining about what he thought was cartilage or bone or something sticking out of his abdomen. What can you tell us about how he's

physically feeling?

P. REED: You know Trevor always underplays how he's feeling. But he's like, he just said, I'm fine. I'm fine. But, you know, we'll see at least he's

getting checked out.

J. REED: Yes, we're praying that he doesn't have tuberculosis. But we're still concerned; you know that he was coughing up blood for months. So it

could be leftover from his COVID back in, you know, late or middle of last year, so.

KEILAR: So this is pretty recent news, right? I mean, are you guys still in shock?

P. REED: Yes, a little bit.

J. REED: We're, we believe that that meeting with the president is what might have happened.

P. REED: And it was a tipping point for sure.

J. REED: Which is what we had said all along if we could just speak to the president, we just he's that kind of person. And as always, we also we want

to remember Paul Whelan. And we need to get him out of there.

And he's innocent, along with, you know, dozens of Americans all over the world that we need to get out of those places, too. And we just want the

president to keep going while he started here and with the couple of prisoners in Venezuela, we need to dig in to our entire Americans home.

KEILAR: Look, Paula and Joey, it's amazing that you're trying to turn the focus now on other people who are so in need. I do want to ask you, Paula,

when you see him in person, finally, you know, what are you going to do? What do you want to say?

P. REED: Well, I'm going to try not to cry because he doesn't want me to cry. Obviously I'm going to cry a little bit, give him a big hug. And just,

you know, just give him a hug and there'll be a four of us together again in a few years, so it's going to be great.


KEILAR: I can't imagine what it has been like for you not to be able to touch him to give him a hug, Joey the same for you as well. I wonder, you

know, what do you want? What do you want to say to him?

J. REED: Well, I want to hug him and not let him go. And you know, I was in Russia for 14 months, and I probably went to at least 20 different trial

hearings, where he's standing in a cage. And they won't let me touch him shake his hand or anything. So, obviously, it'll be good to finally give my

son a hug.

KEILAR: I can't blame him for not wanting to let him go. And he's going to put up with that kiss. And I think he's going to put up with you crying,

Paula as well. Paula, what do you want to say to the - and do you spoke to the president? What did you tell him? What do you want to say, now that

you've maybe had a moment to collect your thoughts?

P. REED: Well, we tell the president, obviously, that we were very grateful for his quick action, and we were so thankful. And he said I understand

that you must be feeling excited or whatever.

And then he said, I wanted to call you but I didn't want to, you know, jinx it during the middle of the night. So I waited until now. And he said I'm

happy for you. Congratulations.

And then we said, Joey tell him that when we see him again, when he said he wanted to have us at the White House and enjoy. He said, well, when we see

you again, we're probably going to want to give you a big hug.


NEWTON: OK, so an emotional hour there in the last hour for the parents of Trevor Reed. Nada Bashir joins me now with the latest. I know you've been

following this as it's been breaking.

You know, it was an emotional call. And clearly his parents are quite happy. They're juggling calls between their son and the president. Yet this

really involves a lot of backroom diplomacy on the part of the United States and Russia.

What more do we know about the fact that this wasn't a prisoner swap that there was in fact, a Russian citizen held in the United States that was

exchanged. What more do we know?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Yes, absolutely, Paula and this is interesting timing, of course, taking place with the backdrop of Russia's invasion of

Ukraine. Clearly, the diplomatic talks between Russia and the United States, over the course of this invasion have been failed and fragmented,

to say the least.

But clearly those diplomatic channels are still open. And we heard just in the last hour or so, from Russia's Foreign Ministry spokesperson describing

these talks, these negotiations as a lengthy process.

And that is certainly what it's been, of course, Trevor Reed the rest taking place back in 2019 and in 2020 sentenced to nine years of course.

The U.S. has long maintained that he was innocent of this as a miscarriage of justice.

But we were expecting a lengthy prison sentence there, for whatever reason, clearly, some pretty intense negotiations have been taking place between

the diplomatic representatives of the U.S. and Russia.

In the background, we've heard from President Biden who said that this wasn't an easy decision to make that prisoner swap that we heard from his

parents taking place in Turkey.

But let me just read you a bit from Biden statement. He said the negotiations that allowed us to bring Trevor home required difficult

decisions that I do not take lightly.

His safe return is a testament to the priority my administration places on bringing home Americans held hostage and wrongfully detained abroad. We

weren't stopped until Paul Whelan and others join Trevor, in the loving arms of family and friends are clear.

This has long been a priority for the Biden Administration. They do remain others in detention in Russia, and that continues to be a concern for the

U.S. government. You heard that from Travis parents clearly, they've described it's quite a dramatic prisoner swap describing it as something

like in the movies in Turkey.

This has been part of intense negotiations. But clearly, the U.S. government will be expected to share more details in the coming hours and

days. With regards to what diplomatic talks took place and what really is at stake for the others still in detention in Russia. Paula?

NEWTON: Well, yes and of course, Trevor Reed's parents, they're mentioning Paul Whelan, who has been held for several years as well, his family

awaiting news.

But also, of course, the case of Brittney Griner, who is the professional basketball player, American who has been held for more than two months now,

in Russia. This certainly gives them hope.

As you rightly point out, Nada this means that there is communication between the United States and Russia in terms of having the prisoner swap.

What's interesting here is the person of course that Russia asked for?

It's interesting sometimes when this happens, they will ask that more than one prisoner be swapped. In terms of what we know what did we hear from

Russia about how they decided to do this prisoner exchange?

BASHIR: Well, we also get the details around this prisoner exchange. We heard from foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova in the last hour

shows, she identified this Russian citizen as Konstantin Yaroshenko.

He'd been sentenced to 20 years in prison by an American court in 2010 so far earlier than of course Trevor Reed. But you mentioned that the other

students attention, there are concerns around their health.


BASHIR: And clearly while we are still getting the details around this Russian individual who has taken part in this prisoner swap, there will

certainly be some focus on Paul Whelan and Brittney Griner, who have been in detention and continue to be in detention in Russia, particularly as he

went in there around health concerns.

That was certainly a concern around Trevor Reed's case. We heard from his family they were even taking part in protests outside the White House on

hunger strikes, concerned over their son's health.

That has been a concern for Paul Whelan as well and of course, Brittney Griner. So there will certainly be an increased focus on that. And on the

decisions that the U.S. government will be taking going forward with regards to those diplomatic efforts. Paula?

NEWTON: Yes, you make such a good point. Again, you know, Trevor Reed telling his parents he was OK but his father then pointing out that look,

he's been coughing up blood for some time. They did indicate there was a doctor with him on in flight right now.

And we expect to hear more in the coming hours about when that family reunion may take place. Nada Bashir, really appreciate you getting on top

of the story in the last few minutes.

And now we of course go to the latest news from the war on Ukraine. And we begin inside Russia where explosions were reported overnight at three

places not far from the border in Belgorod and ammunition depot was left ablaze.

Explosions also heard in Kursk and --.

Now Ukraine is saying it's not saying in fact that it's behind the attacks. But an advisor to President Zelenskyy tellingly said and I'm quoting here,

deaths have to be paid back and Karma is a cruel thing.

Meantime, Ukraine is admitting its taking losses in the east as Russia intensifies its attacks there. And this is also significant that

significant. There are more missile strikes in the south. Listen to this.

Spared for several weeks, now there is intensifying activity there in the south, two missiles you see there hit the strategic bridge near Odessa.

This is videos you see there from that first strike.

New images meantime show the extent of the damage. The bridge is the only link between the south west corner of Ukraine and the rest of the country.

Now the economic impact of the war is also being felt in the EU and NATO countries.

Russia has cut off natural gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria after they refused to pay Moscow in rubles. Poland calls it a direct attack on the

country while the EU makes clear, this is Russia attempting blackmail.

Scott McLean is live for us in Lviv with the latest on what's going on in the ground. And Scott Ukraine is, as we said, hinting that it may be

responsible for these strikes again significant because these are military targets inside Russia. What more can you tell us?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Paula. So the first explosion was heard just in the early hours this morning, local time. This was an

ammunition depot; we understand about 10, 15 kilometers inside the Ukrainian border.

But what's more surprising is that around 2.30 in the morning, there was another explosion in the Kursk region. And this one, the officials there

say that the missile defense system appeared to work in that case, this was just two days after the Russians say that they shot down Ukrainian drones

in that area.

And then the third one was about two hours after that, in the Voronezh area in that city, which is 200 miles or so inside of the Russian border. Yes,

inside of the Russian border with Ukraine, it is a long ways away. We don't know what was hit in that case.

But we do know that that city is a military and a transport hub. As you mentioned, the Ukrainians haven't said directly in plain language that

they're responsible for these strikes. But they might as well have an advisor to President Zelenskyy said in these Russian regions large fuel

depots that provide fuel for the Russian armies, armored vehicles periodically burn.

And ammunition depots explode for various regions, or for various reasons, excuse me, also saying that those regions are now beginning to actively

study such a concept as demilitarization, a play on, obviously, how Russia has justified this war in the first place to try to - the country and

demilitarize the country of Ukraine, as well, Paula.

NEWTON: Yes, Scott, and you are pointing out the Ukrainian capabilities in this case, and you rightly point out that even its air defense systems

still continue to work in some cases.

You know, at the same time, Russia's aggression continues in the south. We saw Odessa hit again. Is this an indication that Russian forces are

intensifying their attacks crucially not just in the east but also in the south?


MCLEAN: I think that there's a lot of questions about that latest attack the latest two strikes on that bridge in the Odessa region because of its

proximity to Moldova and also because it is the only road or rail connection between the far southwest of Ukraine and the rest of the


And so now that region is essentially cut off from the rest of it. The only way to reach the rest of Ukraine is going by road, but you have to go

through Moldova. What's happening in Moldova is cause for concern in the separatist part of the country called - where Russian troops have been

stationed since the 1990s.

There was a series of explosions there on Monday, and on Tuesday. And the Ukrainians are concerned that because of those attacks, that this may be a

sign that that region is destabilizing and that the Russians may be looking to open a new front in this war.

President Zelenskyy though has previously said though, that Ukrainian troops are ready to fight on a new front should it happen. Paula?

NEWTON: OK, and we'll leave it there for now, Scott, as always, thanks so much for bringing us right up to date on developments there on the ground.

Meantime, we get to the economic piece of this.

The Polish Prime Minister is accusing Moscow of a direct attack, after it cut off natural gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria. Now both refuse to

meet a Russian demand to pay for supplies in rubles. Clare Sebastian is on this story for us.

And it can be a bit confusing, which is why I'm happy you're on this story, Clare, good to see you. How much will this hurt economically? Or is this

more about the messaging?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More about the messaging today, Paula. Yes, this is a blow to Poland and Bulgaria but they are able to manage this

because if you look at how much they actually rely on Russia, not just for gas, but for all of their energy supplies.

They do get a lot of their gas from Russia, but as a share of their total energy consumption, it's in the sort of low teens, so both of them say that

they are able to handle this.

Poland says that it has a gas pipeline under construction from Norway and LNG options as well liquefied natural gas, so they are able to handle this.

Ursula von der Leyen, European Commission President saying today that both are already getting gas from their European neighbors.

She said that should be interpreted as a sign of solidarity in Europe. And this is but this is about Russia sending a message. They are deploying

their most effective economic weapon here Paula, something they have been threatening for a long time.

Now they are doing it if they go further, and do the same thing to other European countries that refuse to pay for gas in rubles. And many of them

have said that they will not be paying for gas in rubles, in part because it might violate sanctions on Russia.

Then we could see serious economic impact Germany, for example, could be tipped into a recession. So this is something that Europe now really has to

get ready for.

NEWTON: Absolutely not a lot of solutions out there and in fact, the EU still debating further sanctions on oil and gas imports. What do you think

we'll still do? Well, this tip them further into perhaps acting more quickly on that?

SEBASTIAN: Yes, it's possible that it will Paula certainly they want to now present a united front, Ursula von der Leyen saying it in comments that I

think were directed not only at Europe, but also Russia, our response will be immediate, united and coordinated.

That is on today's events, of course. But looking forward, they do want to present a united front so that Russia doesn't try to leverage any divisions

in Europe. But this is very complicated.

Don't forget there isn't actually consensus in Europe at the moment on an oil embargo, certainly not on a gas embargo. More and more countries are

moving towards it, but there are the likes of Hungary, for example, that says it just won't be possible Austria as well.

And we know that there isn't going to be a decision particularly soon on this. Josep Borrell, the top diplomat in Europe, so that he doesn't expect

anything before the next EU summit, which will be at the end of May. But certainly I think this does put pressure on Europe to do this.

NEWTON: Yes, absolutely. And again, it's Russia raising the stakes once more. Clare Sebastian thanks so much for going through that with us. And

we've been through a lot already here this morning. Straight ahead, we will have more for you on the first time in its 20 year history.

The International Criminal Court has joined an EU investigation into possible war crimes during Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The challenges it

faces to bring perpetrators to justice, that's next.



NEWTON: New drone video obtained exclusively by CNN shows Russian forces near the scene of atrocities in Bucha. Now highlighted there in the middle

of your screen you see it is a Russian military vehicle at an intersection in Bucha.

Up the street are the bodies of several dead civilians. Another video shows Russian soldiers around a military vehicle parked outside and nearby home.

CNN has in fact geo located and confirmed the authenticity of these videos.

Despite evidence like this, Russia repeatedly denies any involvement. Meantime the International Criminal Courts Chief Prosecutor tells CNN there

will be in fact he says a case to answer in due course on Russia's alleged war crimes in Bucha. Listen.


KARIM ASAD AHMAD KHAN, PROSECUTOR, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT: Those bodies that are in bags on the screen are not fake. I've seen them, I stood

beside them. The issue is how did they die and who's responsible and in what circumstances.

And this is why I think independent investigations are needed because the families of those that are perished deserve answers and the rest of the

world is looking for how vigorous and effective the rule of law can be in the circumstances.


NEWTON: Dmytro Koval is Ukraine Genocide Investigator with Truth Hounds, and he joins me now, a lot to get to here. And I want to discuss, of course

your reaction to what the prosecutor said there.

But you know, in terms of the work that you have ahead of you and what it means to investigate this. Let's look at the list right? It's

extraordinary. We're talking about allegations of murder, torture, sexual violence, use of human shields, forcibly transferring citizens, vandalism,

theft, pillaging.

And we add to that, of course, damage to the environment. How difficult has it been when you're presented with all of really the great need there is to

get out there and get the evidence in hand.

DMYTRO KOVAL, UKRAINE GENOCIDE INVESTIGATOR, TRUTH HOUNDS: Thank you, Paula, for this question. It's indeed very difficult. The team is working

24/7 to collect all this evidence because they are now happening.

We are seeing them all over Ukraine not only in the East, as it was in the first wave of this war, but also in Kyiv region in Sumi on the south, so in

all the regions that are now an active battlefield in this new wave war with Russia.

But we are doing our part our government is doing its own part. And also we have this help from the international partners from the ICC, whose team is

now in Ukraine and investigating war crimes.

Also we have the support from our European partners and also from the U.S. and Canada. Experts from these countries are also in Ukraine and they are

in touch with Ukrainian officials and Ukrainian NGOs. And they are helping a lot in collecting all this evidence.

NEWTON: Yes, you know crucially that includes forensic investigators. We just heard from the ICC there. But essential to these investigations is

tracing the true the perpetrators, right?


NEWTON: The intent is important. The chain of command is important. So just to give everyone an idea of what we're talking about, OK, we see that

there's a shelling on civilians, but how do you determine if it's intentional?

And if instead, we're talking about those horrific atrocities that witnesses have been telling us about some now documented by CNN, how do you

trace the chain of command there?

KOVAL: First of all, not every war crime should be intentional, must be intentional to be a crime. This type of crime is un-proportional, shelling.

So they're shelling that targets military objectives, but at the same cause the collateral damage to civilian infrastructure and civilian objects.

This is also a crime and war crime, actually, and it is done not intentionally, but it causes this collateral damage. So in this type of

crime, we do have to prove even the intent. In other crimes, of course, we should do this, we should prove the intent, and it's challenging.

But at the same time, there is this type of responsibility in international criminal law called common responsibility, that the type of responsibility

that actually does not necessarily demand, approve of attend.

What we should prove to call the person responsible, a principle of common responsibility is to show that this - that was committing crimes and this

person hasn't reacted in any way on these violations of international humanitarian law on these crimes. So we can definitely do that in many


NEWTON: Now, you can do the investigation, and you can gather the evidence evenly charges. But the odds of getting accountability are long, you know,

that certainly much has been done already ahead of you and a long line of investigators historically have come for you.

And we've seen and we've heard their frustration. How confident are you that those responsible will be brought to justice?

KOVAL: I'm quite confident, of course, I'm realistic at the same time. I do understand that not everybody who committed crimes will be brought to

justice. But I pretty sure that most of them will, either in Ukraine in our ordinary national proceedings or in The Hague, by the International

Criminal Court or in some other countries.

In a couple of years, these persons would forget that they committed those crimes and they will travel to some destination that they think are safe

for them. So it will be possible for Ukrainian partners to get them from those jurisdictions. So I'm quite positive on bringing those people to


NEWTON: OK, interesting to hear that I know you have a lot of work ahead of you. And again, we talk about it as if you know in forensic terms. And yet

I know all of this involves so much tragedy and heartache for everyone in Ukraine. Dmytro Koval thank you so much for speaking to us, I appreciate


Now coming up, much more on the latest developments in the war in Ukraine, stay with us for more breaking news in a moment here on CNN.



NEWTON: An update on our top story American Trevor Reed is on his way back to the United States after being detained by Russia in 2019 that he was

part of a prisoner swap with. Moscow moments ago my colleague Jim Sciutto spoke to the State Department Spokesman Ned Price about how the swap

happened listen?


NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPT SPOKESMAN: As our Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs, Roger - was able to meet Trevor today the two of them

along with a team are en-route back to the United States. Today, Trevor was in good spirits. He's looking forward as you might imagine, to being

reunited with his family. And that's something that will happen within the coming hours.

This is a good day for the United States. That also speaks to President Biden's commitment and this entire administration's commitment to do

everything we can to secure the release of Americans who are held hostage or otherwise wrongfully detained around the world as our Special

Presidential Envoy for hostage.


NEWTON: And that there was New Price. We will continue to bring you that breaking news as Trevor Reed now it is on his way back to the United States

- returned to the fighting in the east of Ukraine. It continues to intensify.

A military spokesperson says Russia is reinforcing and re-supplying its forces from bases inside Russia. Strategically that's very important. Some

of the heaviest battles are in and around the Ukrainian city of our Kharkiv. Clarissa Ward returned to that city and got a firsthand look.


CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): There's no rest at night for the people of Kharkiv. Flares light up the sky as

artillery thunders through the air. For nearly nine weeks, Ukraine's second largest city has been shelled relentlessly. Only by day, you see the full

scale of the destruction.

The neighborhood of - was hit repeatedly last month, as Russian forces tried to push into the city. No site was spared, not even the local nursery


WARD (on camera): So it looks like this was some kind of dormitory you can see children's beds here all around. And then in the next door room over

there was their classroom.

WARD (voice over): Their shoes still litter the locker room. Mercifully, the school had been evacuated so no children were killed in the strikes.

WARD (on camera): The Mayor of Kharkiv says that 67 schools and 54 kindergartens have been hit here since the war began. And what's so

striking when you look around is that it's so clearly not a military target. This is a residential neighborhood.

WARD (voice over): Just a few blocks away the bare skeleton of an apartment building. Authority say more than 2000 houses have been hit here. The

sounds of war are never far away.

WARD (on camera): So you can see this is what's left of the bedroom here. It's just astonishing.

WARD (voice over): Two doors down we see a figure peeking out. 73-year-old Larissa - is still living there alone.

WARD (on camera): So she's saying that she does have a sister who she could stay with but she also lives in an area that's being heavily hit and she's

living in a shelter at the moment.


WARD (voice over): It's from all sides, she says, from there and there they can shell. With her fresh lipstick - is a picture of pride and resilience

much like this city, still standing tall in the face of a ruthless enemy Clarissa Ward, CNN, Kharkiv?


NEWTON: So that's the military campaign. Meantime, concerns continue to grow over potential cyber-attacks by Russia. Western governments have

recently warned about the possible threat against critical infrastructure as Moscow's response to sanctions. Just last week, NATO held its annual

cyber war games that included simulated attacks on power grids and financial systems.

Joining us now is Amit Yoran, a CEO of Cyber Security Firm Tenable, and it is really good to have you weigh in on this today.

You know, in your estimation, is a Russian backed cyber-attack likely underway at this moment? And if it is, have we yet to realize its impact?

Or are private companies and governments mounting? What is the really good defense right now and not disclosing what's going on?

AMIT YORAN, CEO TENABLE: Those are series of great questions. There certainly is cyber activity going on. We've seen Russian attacks against

internet services in Ukraine, we've seen against satellite infrastructure against wind turbines and power generation across Europe.

And I think governments are doing a good job, helping organizations protect themselves. And we've got a great effort going on from the Department of

Homeland Security in conjunction with CHQ in the UK, providing very specific advisories about what vulnerabilities the Russians and other bad

actors are going after.

NEWTON: Amit I have to ask you, though, you know, some would consider your opinions in fact provocative about what the government can and can't do to

defend private entities, even critical infrastructure.

Things like banks and utilities that were mentioned mentioning, I mean, you're quoted as saying, we are at a major inflection point in history, and

how we respond will make all the difference? What do you mean by that? Do you want governments to take a lighter touch?

YORAN: Well, I don't think government should take a lighter touch. But I think government and governments have a very specific role in free society,

they have to drive transparency, they have to drive accountability.

They have to drive information about threats, things that the private sector is not really good at, without the government's help. But if the

government can do that and the private sector can be informed about the threat environment.

If they are forced to be transparent about breaches, and what's working and what's not, then we can achieve a much stronger degree of security than

we've seen historically. And that's really what's required.

NEWTON: OK. And given that, I want to get your opinion a few weeks ago, as "The New York Times" I believe, first reported, the U.S. secretly removed

malware from computer networks around the world. I mean, think about that they did that through the Justice Department, the disclosure was highly

significant, in your opinion, was that an extraordinary move and wasn't necessary?

YORAN: Well, there has to be a very clearly defined role for the various governmental functions that are understood by the private sector in the

course of the - in the case of the intelligence community collecting signals about what the bad guys are doing from a Cyber Command perspective

and posing our cyber well, in areas in cases where that make sense.

For law enforcement, it's really about the prosecution, and prevention of crime. So we'll have to get a lot more specific about whether they were

reaching into corporate networks, or whether they were just disabling the command and control servers of these Russian or other bonnets, which are

inflicting damage on U.S. and other companies.

So we have to be very careful about the role of government make sure that we're encouraging and forcing the private sector to protect themselves,

close your windows, lock your doors, and make sure you're operating from a strong foundation from a responsible foundation in cyber security.

NEWTON: It sounds easy when you say and you know, we all know, it's just so complicated. I should say cyber, these kinds of cyber defense systems are

booming right now, including your company earnings profits stellar.

And yet, you know, I think what's going on with you guys is keeping me up at night. I know everyone is constrained right now, by labor shortages. I

mean, how concerned are you that not just your company but the larger industry will be able to keep up with the cyber threat that we will remain

safe and won't have a catastrophic problem?


YORAN: This is absolutely no time to panic. What we know definitively is that companies and individuals that care about their cyber security that

have a culture of enforcing good cyber hygiene, and good cyber practices are absolutely better off.

That's not to say you can't get breached. But it's to say that it's much more difficult to breach and much, much less likely. We've got to get rid

of this learned sense of helplessness and understand that if we, if we look for and patch and maintain our systems in a good state of repair, if we

don't behave negligently, we can protect ourselves quite brilliantly in cyber.

NEWTON: No time to panic. I mean, I'm taking that one right into 2022. OK, I'm pretty happy you just said that. All right, Amit Yoran CEO of Tenable,

thanks so much, really appreciate it.

YORAN: Thanks.

NEWTON: And we will be right back with more news in a moment.


NEWTON: All right, we want to look at some of the market followed around the world this morning. U.S. stocks looking to rebound after that sharp

sell off on Tuesday led by looming recession fears reminder that the DOW fell some 809 points on Tuesday. The S&P further retreated into bear market

territory posting a 52 week low.

Look at that right now though we are up especially that NASDAQ now up better than 1 percent. It was a mixed performance so for Asian markets as

lockdowns there of course continue, and more mass testing takes place in both Shanghai and Beijing and let's say lock downs have brought the world's

second largest economy near breaking point.

Volatility is back on raw Wall Street. Rahel Solomon joins me now to discuss how investors are weighing in on all this? I really watched the

debacle yesterday afternoon with everyone trying to call a bottom maybe that's happened. We've got a slight bounce this morning right?

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A slight bounce, Paula. So perhaps a sign that investors think that yesterday's sell off was a bit overdone, but it

is part of a wider theme that we've seen this month and this year.

So what's rattling investors? Maybe the better question is what's not? Of course we have the war in Ukraine and the impacts to the energy markets.

You have inflation the fastest pace in 40 years last reading put it at about 8.5 percent year-over-year.

Then you also have recession fears which you just mentioned, Paula, the Fed saying that a 50 basis point rate hike is on the table for next month.

Perhaps as compared to 25 percent or 25 basis points or a quarter of a percent that had been expected.


SOLOMON: Yesterday we heard from Google parent Alphabet citing weaker ad spending not a great sign. Also citing and warning investors that next

quarter could also be potentially weak too. Paula, as an investor, you never want to hear a company start to warn or signal that next quarter may

start to look weak as well.

And it's not just Google and Alphabet it's really all of the things that NASDAQ in general, let's takes a look at some of the fang names when you

look at Facebook or Meta for example year-to-date down about 46 percent, almost 50 percent just this year alone Netflix 67 percent Alphabet 17

percent and Amazon 16 percent so certainly just not a great year so far.

Some bank notes making the rounds this week, Deutsche Bank warning that severe, severe downturn may be coming also Morgan Stanley, saying very few

places to hide.

NEWTON: Yes, and certainly Deutsche Bank using the R word recession got everyone's attention. OK. Well, we're done with the bad news. I've been

really interested in so much guidance going forward from some saying that look, consumers and businesses still spending at least in the United


SOLOMON: Yes, it seems like it might be the consumer to the rescue right? Even yesterday, we heard from Visa saying despite inflation, which as we

just pointed out is very high despite supply chain issues the consumer is still spending they're not seeing an impact in terms of consumer spend.

Especially because of travel folks want to get out and travel we've certainly heard that from the airlines this earnings season and MasterCard

also saying similar comments last week when they reported.

Microsoft also reporting yesterday reporting the strong quarter revenues rose 18 percent so could it be the consumer coming to the rescue still

spending but Paula, maybe the question is for how long?

NEWTON: Yes, and that's the issue right there. Visa, you know, alluded to that pent up demand in travel and certainly one sector that has been

strong. Rahel thanks so much really appreciate it as we continue to watch the markets today.

Now meantime, those consumers are going to continue buying a lot of them needs those goods from China. China's President is calling for more

spending on infrastructure to try and rescue its economy. Its financial growth has stalled again in recent weeks as a result of COVID lockdowns,

supply chain issues as well. At least 27 cities are under restrictions, and about 165 million people are affected. CNN's Selina Wang has been following

it for us.

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENTY: In China, 1 million people are under strict lockdown after just one person tested positive for COVID-19. This is

the reality in zero COVID

China officials are especially concerned because this case was found in - a city just 50 kilometers away from Beijing, and a lot of people commute

between the two cities. This is as Beijing is trying to quash a nascent outbreak at the Capital.

They're trying to quash it early to avoid it from spiraling into the chaos and mess it during the Shanghai lockdown. Beijing is already in a partial

lockdown. Whether this turns into a full lockdown depends on how many positive COVID cases are found as a result of mass testing?

Beijing has been testing 20 million residents in multiple rounds. So far 114 cases have been reported since Friday. Beijing officials have been

trying to reassure its residents that there are enough supplies of food and daily essentials.

But still people are concerned there has been some panic buying in Beijing supermarkets, the residents they've seen the horrors on Chinese social

media of what Shanghai had to go through during their continued week's long lockdown the lack of food, medical care and the unsanitary conditions at

quarantine facilities.

But while Shanghai and Beijing have gotten the most attention, millions of people across China are confined to their homes. Dozens of cities have

rolled out some kind of lockdown restrictions. As most of the world is learning to live with COVID China is still bringing entire metropolis is to

a standstill. And analysts say that these lockdowns are bringing China's economy "Near breaking point".

Investment banks they're slashing their forecasts for China's economic growth. But to try and fix the economy, China's Leader Xi Jinping told

officials that an all-out effort must be made to boost construction. He called for more projects in transportation, energy, cloud computing and

artificial intelligence.

It is rare for Xi Jinping to set out these sorts of detailed economic plans so these comments by China's Leader indicates that Beijing is growing

increasingly concerned by the country's economic outlook. And global investors are concerned too, as China's stock markets sink deeper into a

bear market Selina Wang, CNN, China.


NEWTON: And stay with us we'll be back with much more news in a moment.


NEWTON: The World Bank is warning that high food and energy prices could go on for years and that is because of the war in Ukraine. Now as global trade

is impacted Africa is finding itself a frontier market for food producers.

And we want to take you there as part of today's "Connecting Africa". Now for decades Egyptian entrepreneurs have exported produce like those citrus

fruits right around the world. But in the last few years they have expanded across key markets on their own continent, Eleni Giokos has more.


ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the fertile lands of Egypt's Nile Delta, citrus farming is 1000 year old activity. For Mohammed

Gad, it's a long family tradition. Gad is the second generation owner of GADCO Egypt, a large citrus producer known for its high quality oranges.

MOHAMMED GAD, GADCO COMPANY: We start here from the collection of the fruit, we take this produce, and we pack it and then start shipping to

destination countries.

GIOKOS (voice over): His family started production in the 90s when he was just a young boy. And at a time when the economy was liberalized,

transforming Egypt into a top exporter of citrus fruit. Many food companies started trading predominantly with Asia, Europe and North America. Gad's

family business took a different road, betting big on the African market.

GAD: We first started with South Africa. Later on we introduced our produce to Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi. And then later on, we thought, why

don't we export to the West as well.

GIOKOS (voice over): Today Gad believes the new Africa Free Trade Area or the AFCFTA could transform the sector once again, intensifying trade across

the continent.

GAD: What we are looking for is trade between the whole continent. We want to send out produce from the north to the south from the east to the west.

GIOKOS (voice over): With a reduction of tariffs on hundreds of food products. The FAO estimates intra Africa trade of agriculture items could

grow by 33 percent over the next decade. And that growth is luring more Egyptian entrepreneurs to look at the potential of the African markets. Aly

El Gamil hits Cairo 3A one of Egypt's largest food exporters, including citrus fruits. He says the opening of the African market could be a boon

for his business.

ALY EL GAMIL, CEO GADCO COMPANY: Africa is the last frontier. So winning in Africa today will give our Egyptian brand a lot of equity in the next


GIOKOS (voice over): As trade across Africa continues to grow challenges still persist.


GAMIL: The main challenge in Africa at the moment is the lack of infrastructure makes it very difficult for the daily trade. If there's a

solution, I think we can have a better Africa.

GIOKOS (voice over): Back in the field, Gad is already seeing progress in bridging the infrastructure gap and unlocking the continents potential.

GAD: There is a new project, which is the Cape Town Cairo Road. This is going to help the trade between East African countries and the North and

the South as well.

GIOKOS: A project helping him and other Egyptian entrepreneurs connect Africa with their fruits Eleni Giokos, CNN.


NEWTON: Finally on "First Move" another day another SpaceX mission? Blasting off into space earlier today the Falcon 9 Rocket and Crew Dragon

Spacecraft lifting off from Kennedy Space Center headed for the International Space Station.

Among the all astronaut crew is Jessica Watkins, who becomes the first black woman to complete such a mission. They will study the long term

effects of being in space. And thanks for spending your day with us your hour with us stay with CNN "Connect the World" with Eleni Giokos is next.