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First Move with Julia Chatterley
U.S. House Speaker in Poland after Visit to Kyiv; Russia's Belgorod Region Hit by Explosions Overnight; CNN's Selina Wang gets used to Life Under Quarantine; Direct Damage to Ukraine's Infrastructure Estimate $270B; Kremlin Critics Flee Russia as it Targets Dissidents; Buffet: Stock Market has become a "Gambling Parlor". Aired 9-10a ET
Aired May 02, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNNI HOST: You're watching CNN. I'm Julia Chatterley in New York and we begin with the latest from Ukraine. An attempt to evacuate
people from the embattled City of Mariupol is underway. Over the weekend more than 100 civilians were ferried to safety from the besieged Azovstal
Steel Plant, something sunlight for the first time in weeks or even months.
The plant came under fire again on Sunday night though according to Ukrainian forces. Meanwhile, two explosions are reported in Russia's
Belgorod region overnight too, this just a few hours after a large fire broke out due to military installation in the area. Russia has accused
Ukraine of cross border attacks on fuel depots and military facilities.
And in Kharkiv, Ukrainian officials say three people were killed and injured in Russian shelling Sunday. And the United States stands with its
NATO allies in support of Ukraine. That was the message from Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the House of Representatives when she met Polish President
Andrzej Duda earlier, her visit to Warsaw follows an unannounced visit to the Ukrainian Capital on Saturday. In Kyiv if she met President Zelenskyy
telling him your fight is the fight for everyone. Our commitment is to be there for you until the fight is done. Now Nick Payton Walsh is in
Zaporizhzhia where you are evacuees are expected to arrive from the steel plant in Mariupol. He spoke to my colleague John Berman earlier.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): At this stage, we do not have evacuees from the Azovstal plants or from this
specific convoy organized by the United Nations and Red Cross arriving here at the reception center where they would come in. You can see areas here
that have been used over the past hours to welcome other evacuees from some actually the past days have gone out of Mariupol being caught waiting in
Russian held territory and slowly moved their way here.
But all eyes of course are on these two separate moves out of Mariupol I to separate because we're talking firstly about the as of Azovstal Steel
Plant, where a ceasefire allowed the first batch of individuals to get out.
I have to quote Russian media here for some of the clearest numbers. But their suggestion was that 46 got out in the first 24 hour period. And then
in fact, we're now we've seen another 80 in the second. The fate of those split, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense 11 choosing to stay in
separatist territory, we'll have to take their word for that. And then 69 headed in this direction towards Zaporizhzhia they have not arrived here if
we are in fact indeed getting a clean readout from the Russian Ministry of Defense.
Instead, Ukrainian officials for their part, did in the last hours suggest that some of the buses, not these here, these will be the buses that
eventually move people on from here most likely to their next destination. Some of the buses have yet to meet people at meeting points.
Let me just move around here and show you a little bit more about what we're seeing here. But this has become of course, a move of enormous
symbolic significance, not just because of the fate of those civilians caught under that steel plant and inside that besieged city over the past
months, but because of course, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, yesterday said from eight o'clock they will be coming out and his team
would welcome them here.
That's where a lot of the welcome would happen in some of these tents, adequate supplies here and what was just weeks ago, the outside of a
shopping center. But real I think expectations here certainly building that something may happen in the hours ahead.
But I have to be honest with you, John, we haven't at this point heard any clear suggestion that a convoy is moving with evacuees. I'm talking about
the larger convoy civilians coming out of Mariupol organized by the United Nations, but it's on its way, specifically to us here.
And so they like ours are kind of limited. And there's a lot that could potentially go wrong here and a lot of confusing messages coming out. But
the stakes are incredibly high not just for those civilians caught their 100,000, possibly in Mariupol, who will as they travel potentially gather
more individuals who wish to follow their path out towards Ukrainian held territory.
But also to of course, because of the geopolitical machinations that have been involved in making this happen. The visit by UN Secretary General
Antonio Guterres to Moscow the conversation you have with Russian President Vladimir Putin and the hopes frankly around the world that those suffering
most in Mariupol a city, frankly leveled by Russia's brutal ambitions there will find a way to get out.
It's here where they'll arrive but as I talk to you now they haven't started coming from that actual mission of the humanitarian corridor and
there are concerns that we may not necessarily see them until tomorrow.
CHATTERLEY: Nick Payton Walsh reporting there earlier. Now for the Ukrainian soldiers unable to leave the steel plant, the future remains
uncertain. Now is Russia promised humane treatment to anyone surrendering, even producing propaganda to promote that? CNN's Matt Rivers found evidence
to the contrary, a warning his story contains disturbing images and content.
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Russian propaganda with a clear message to the last remaining defenders of Mariupol. A video says we
guarantee that we will save your lives and we will follow international laws to guarantee humane treatment. Such will be the case says the
voiceover with this man, a captured Ukrainian soldier Dan Zvonyk.
The 25-year-old member of Ukraine's Territorial Defence Force was captured at the Azovstal steel complex the last remaining pocket of resistance in
the city. CNN has geo located the building behind them to an area just northwest of the plant a Russian soldier detailing how they'll be treated.
As you are captured he says we will treat you with honor and with understanding. These videos were published on April 20th 5 days later, Dan
Zvonyk was dead. This picture of his face hauntingly lifeless was sent to his mother by officials and Russian held Donetsk, she told us we redial the
numbers and we're hung up on once we identified as journalists to confirm who he was.
They also sent a picture of his chest with a tattoo on the body clearly matching the ones seen on Dan Zvonyk when he was still alive in Russian
RIVERS (on camera): When you first saw that message what went through your mind?
LUDMILA ZAGURSKA, AUNT OF DEAD UKRAINIAN POW: Nothing I just screamed. There was nothing, no thoughts.
RIVERS (voice over): We met his mother near where she staying in Kyiv. She fled Mariupol herself just two weeks ago alongside the rest of her family.
Her sister in law also really from the photo of her nephew.
ZAGURSKA: I still have that photograph in front of my eyes. It's constantly in front of my eyes.
RIVERS (voice over): A morgue in Donetsk confirmed to CNN that Zvonyk was dead and that his body was picked up on Sunday. His family says there was a
large wound in the back of his head. CNN can't confirm how he died. But we know he died after being taken into custody, either by Russian or Russian
backed separatist forces.
RIVERS (on camera): Do you think that the Russians killed your son?
ZAGURSKA: Yes, I'm sure.
RIVERS (voice over): Russia's Ministry of Defense did not return a request for comment about how Zvonyk died. For weeks CNN has heard directly from
soldiers inside the steel plant complex who've told us they will not surrender to the Russians for fear of being executed within their ranks
Zvonyk's death only hardened that sentiment.
RIVERS (voice over): Does what happened to him only reinforce the notion that the soldiers that are there are not going to surrender to the
GEORGE KUPARASHVILI, DEPUTY COMMANDER, AZOV REGIMENT: Don't you think it confirms their fear? And actually - expectations what will Russia for our
date today? This is a war crime.
RIVERS (voice over): We asked Zvonyk's mother Anna if she is angry with the Russians, her answer honest and gutting.
ANNA ZVONYK, MOTHER OF DEAD UKRAINIAN POW: For now, I only feel enormous pain, pain and emptiness that's it
RIVERS (voice over): Matt Rivers CNN, Kyiv.
CHATTERLEY: OK, let's get more from CNN's Scott McLean, who's in Lviv for us. Scott, I want to focus in on the explosions that have been reported in
Belgorod region across the border over in Russia, the Russians are pointing the finger at the Ukrainians accusing them of targeting critical
infrastructure. What more do we know about what happened here?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Julia. Yes, so these explosions were reported by the Governor of Belgorod, the region in Russia just across the
border earlier this morning there were two of them apparently quite loud.
This comes or they say sorry, I should say that. These explosions didn't cause any casualties. They didn't damage any infrastructure. This is what
the Russians are saying. But they come just a day after there were another fire at a military installation on Russian soil in that same region again,
and a few days after, just last week, there was a fire at a weapons depot in that very same region, as well.
Now, the Ukrainians haven't exactly owned up to these but at least the one that last week, they might as well have an advisor to the president saying
that karma is a cruel thing. The Russian Foreign Ministry Julia has warned in the past, they've warned Kyiv they've warned the West that Russian
airstrikes on Russians will be met with a swift response and they further warned not to test Moscow's patience on this because they are determined to
achieve their goals and what in what they call a special military operation.
MCLEAN: But this is part of a larger pattern. It's not just Belgorod; there have been sites all across a Russian territory that had been hit with these
mysterious fires. And if the Ukrainians are in fact behind some or all of them, then clearly they're not hitting that warning Julia.
CHATTERLEY: No, certainly not. Scott, I know something else that you're focusing on very closely at Southwest of Odessa, and a Russian missile
strike for the third time, I believe, on a critical bridge located in that region. I think we've got a map to show our viewers. What can you tell us
about that, that bridge and why it's so important, both to the Russians, and for the Ukrainians to hold?
MCLEAN: Yes. Well, why it's important for the Russians, we're still trying to figure that out. But it's critical for the Ukrainians to have that
bridge, because it is the only link between that southwestern corner of Ukraine and the rest of the country. Any other way to get there has to at
least buy land by rail or by road has to go through Moldova.
And so this bridge is that critical link, and this is the third time now that it has been hit, it was hit once they started to repair it, it was hit
again. Surely, it's very likely they were trying to repair it again. And now it's been hit a third time. So the Russian seemed determined that the
Ukrainians will not be able to use that bridge cutting off that portion of the country from the rest of itself.
Obviously, we know that in Ukraine, air travel is not a thing. So any other way to get there would have to be either through Moldova or by boat
potentially, as well. It comes not long after a Russian Military Commander made very clear that the goal of this invasion is not only to take the
Eastern Donbas part of the country but also to control the entire Southern part of Ukraine along the Black Sea in order to link up with Transnistria
the separatist region of Moldova that has a large Russian speaking population, and also has a contingent of some 1500 perhaps Russian troops
there as well.
There have been these mysterious explosions that have taken place in Transnistria in recent days, the Ukrainian say that they're trying to
create tension with those. This bridge is obviously very close to that territory. So again, it's not clear exactly what the Russian are after
here, but it is a very critical piece of infrastructure for Ukraine, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes and crucial for port access too. Scott McLean great to have you with us thank you so much for that! Now, EU Energy Ministers holding
emergency talks today, amid fears Russia will cut gas supplies to more countries that refuse to pay them in Rubles. Ministers showing strong
solidarity with Poland and Bulgaria, which both saw their supplies cut last week.
The talks calm as the EU appears to be moving closer to a phased in ban on Russian oil. Clare Sebastian joins me now. Clare enough to confuse our
viewers here so let's be clear what we're talking about EU energy ministers discussing the cut off of Bulgaria and Poland and what to do about gas
supplies from Russia? But there do apparently seem rumors of movements on oil supplies from Russia and whether or not some kind of facing oil embargo
can be agreed this week? Germany may be on board. What do we know?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, German participation would be crucial as the biggest importer of Russian energy and the biggest economy
in Europe. Julia what we know is that work is underway on a sixth package of sanctions that could according to an EU spokesperson to me this morning
include sanctions on oil imports, it could also include further individual sanctions, nothing is off the table, according to the spokesperson.
And crucially, as I said, we heard from Germany, the Economy Minister last week saying that, you know, a phased ban on Russian oil could be in his
words manageable. Part of the reason for that is that work is well and truly underway in Germany to reduce their reliance on Russian oil.
They have gone according to the Economy Minister from 35 percent of their inputs coming from Russia before the war to 12 percent now. So they are
well on the way that is why they think they could manage this, but there are countries who would manage it would find it much, much harder to manage
the likes of Hungary, which has already said that it could not even phase out Russian energy.
And Slovakia is also a country that's very reliant on Russian oil. There are reports there's a report from Reuters today that the EU might be
considering, according to officials, a potential exemption for those two countries either an exemption perhaps, or a slower transition, that would
be a way to sort of put forward a picture of European unity while at the same time not sort of alienating those countries who say they simply can't
So we expect that discussions will move forward on the sixth package of sanctions, but at the moment, the focus appears to be Julia, for this
meeting today on the Russian actions last week, cutting off the gas to Poland and Bulgaria.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, so what might come next? Clare, no doubt we will reconvene on this conversation. Thank you so much for that Clare Sebastian there. Now
Beijing is doubling down yet again on the zero COVID health policies that have resulted in a marked weakening of its economy.
CHATTERLEY: Beijing today announcing another round of mass PCR testing for more than 20 million residents to battle an uptick in COVID cases there.
Officials also temporarily shutting down Beijing's Universal Studios during the ongoing Labor Day holiday all this after a new report chain
manufacturing activity in China contracting for a second straight month. Selina Wang is in Kunming, China where she is now on I believe day 10 of 21
Selina, we will come back to what you're going through as far as that's concerned. But obviously you're facing these restrictions too. What more
limits are being placed on people in the Beijing region to try and keep those cases down?
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia, what we're seeing in Beijing is authorities there are cracking down fast and early to try and avoid a city
wide lockdown, and get away from the chaos and failures of the Shanghai citywide one.
So right now, Beijing has only recorded about 400 COVID cases since April 22nd. But already, they're locking down parts of the cities. Barring many
people from leaving their homes, they've shut down a lot of entertainment venues like Universal Studios; they've shut down schools, a lot of public
And in addition to that, they're doing rounds and rounds of mass testing. This is a city of more than 20 million people. Just last week, they wrapped
up three rounds of mass testing. And now this week, they're doing it all over again.
On top of that, starting from May 5th, all residents need to show proof of negative PCR negative COVID test to get into any public place. That's
including public transportation. So as we see these ramped up restrictions in the Capital in Shanghai, still many of that city's 25 million residents,
they've been locked in their homes for more than a month.
So still, people there are growing angrier and more frustrated. But it's not just these big cities Julia across China; at least 27 cities are under
some form of lockdown that's impacting about 180 million people across China. That's more than half of the U.S. population.
And some of the extreme measures in China are causing outrage. For instance, in this area outside of Beijing, we see people are forced to hand
over their keys to community workers so that they can lock them into their homes from the outside. And in the video, you can see that if people
refuse, they actually are drilling holes into their walls to lock them in.
In Shanghai video has also shown some parts of the city fencing people into their homes. Now all of these lockdown measures they are really hurting
Chinese economy as we saw from that manufacturing data, we saw factory activity contracting for the second straight month, especially given that
Shanghai is the country's industrial heart financial hub.
We're seeing all of these lockdowns impact the supply chain impact factory operations, it's hurting the economy.
CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. We were just showing some video of a door that appeared to be locked there with a piece of wire in a very flimsy looking
padlock. I have to say in in other countries that would certainly not stop people leaving their homes.
And speaking of that, as I mentioned, you're on day 10 of 21 day quarantine. You did a brilliant report that I suggest people watch. It's
all over social media so people can see it of what your experience was even just to get there Selina. Tell us what it's like to eat, how you're getting
your meals? How you're managing?
WANG: Well Julia, thank you for that. I mean, it's probably bizarre for a lot of our viewers in other parts of the world where people are learning to
live with COVID travel is starting to return to normal. Well here in China, they're still guarded by some of the strictest border controls and the
strictest quarantine in the world.
So inbound travelers, they've got to go through a lengthy quarantine. So I traveled in from Tokyo into Kunming, which is 1600 miles from Beijing
because that is the only direct flight we could find given how limited flights are. So I'm basically locked into this quarantine room for 21 days,
I can only open my door to pick up food.
They deliver three meals a day, you can't order any outside food, and they do multiple temperature checks a day regular COVID tests. Sometimes I even
get a COVID test twice a day, in fact, and also several times a day, every few hours I hear noises outside of people in full hazmat suits the staff
members disinfecting the hallways.
Not only can I hear it, but I can smell it that strong smell of alcohol seeping through the doors. All of this it probably sounds extreme, but its
part of China's zero COVID policy critics say perhaps this is more politics than science. But authorities in China are saying they're sticking to this.
In fact, they're even calling these policies China's magic weapon against COVID.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, we were looking at pictures of your meals there as well Selina. I believe and you said you bought snacks from you from Tokyo to
supplement your meals. I hope there was some chocolate in there too because I have to say I will be really struggling as serious as the story is I'll
be really shy.
WANG I've been just tearing through my - I've been tearing through my dark chocolate reserves. I'm very scared because my rations are running out
already and I'm only halfway through.
WANG: I've just been tearing through my dark chocolate reserves. I'm very scared because my rations are running out already and I'm only halfway
CHATTERLEY: I know you had a secret for looking so good, Selina, thank you for that. Hang in there, Selina Wang. All right, let me bring you up to
speed with some of the other stories making headlines around the world.
Parts of India and Pakistan are suffering intense heat waves that are putting the lives of millions at risk. Record high temperatures in recent
weeks have damaged crops for schools to close and put pressure on energy supplies.
Experts are warning of even more frequent heat waves that could affect over a billion people in both nations. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is in
Germany on the first leg of a three day visit to Europe. Today he's meeting with Chancellor Olaf Scholz, and then it's on to Copenhagen followed by a
summit with leaders of Nordic nations.
The trip comes as Prime Minister Modi is facing pressure from the west to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Now coming up, rebuilding from the
rubble, Russia's invasion has cost Ukraine's economy countless billions and the cost is rising all the time. More on what it will take to rebuild,
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. As heavy shelling continues in eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian government is already thinking about the long road to
rebuilding the country.
Ukraine's Prime Minister says during the first six weeks of the war, damage to Ukraine's economy exceeded $500 billion. And according to government
estimates, damage in the long run could be $1 trillion or five times Ukraine's GDP last year.
A full scale recovery will cost billions and will need global support. Now part of that effort is Sergiy Tsivkach, he is the Executive Director of
Ukraine invest Ukraine's Investment Promotion office Sergiy, great to have you on the show, thank you so much for your time.
When we are talking about $1 trillion, it is a mind blowing sum for anyone never mind how big your nation's economy is. How are you framing that in
the discussions that you're having with people that could potentially help?
SERGIY TSIVKACH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UKRAINEINVEST: It's a very significant demand for Ukraine, but not only for Ukraine for any country worldwide. Let
me give you some figures what's happened to you in these 62 days of unprovoked illegal criminal world aggression against Ukraine.
Almost 23,000 kilometers of roads were destroyed.
TSIVKACH: 32 million square meters of real estate, 535 kindergartens, 866 educational facilities, one house 173 factories in Ukraine were damaged and
two ports and we also have no access to full force in Ukraine.
So you can see that this damage is very significant. And this is no longer Ukrainian crisis. This is no longer a regional crisis, it's a global
crisis. When we talk about FDI loan, negative effect on FDI is around 54 billion U.S. dollars, bearing in mind, in 2021 total FDI stock in Ukraine
was 61 billion U.S. dollars. You can imagine how serious this is for Ukraine. And as I said, this is a very serious case for the whole world.
CHATTERLEY: Wow. I mean, I was writing those numbers down, and it's tough to get a grasp of, we'll break it down into where you begin. But I think to
your point, when you're talking about 22,000 kilometers of Ukrainian roads damaged, and the country is still at war, you need to be rebuilding now,
but there's also a battle to fight.
Are people willing to provide money for the rebuilding now or are they saying, look, we'll give you money, but the war needs to be over. Or what
we invest may end up needing to be done again, in a few weeks or months.
TSIVKACH: I will separate this into two issues, President Zelenskyy that we have to start rebuilding the economy and infrastructure, critical
infrastructure right now; we cannot wait till the end of the war, because country needs to operate.
There was a high level meeting in Washington. And we have seen significant support from international community from international organizations and
our partner countries. So we expect this support to come to Ukraine soon.
But also, we will have to talk later about private investment support. And we already as government of Ukraine Investment Attraction support office,
we're working on programs for twinning cooperation, it's a very good approach.
It could be used between Ukraine and other states, like for example, United Kingdom and they will support rebuilding of Kyiv, capital of Ukraine and
Sweden, Denmark, they are happy to support rebuilding up Mykolaiv. But we can also talk about sectors of the economy that can be rebuilt by a big
multinational. As you know, Ukraine is very rich in terms of raw materials.
We have 20 out of 30 critical raw materials, we are rich in terms of cobalt, lithium, zirconium, graphite, you know this all this minerals of
the future. So Ukraine will have to be rebuilt as Ukraine 2.0.
We cannot go back to raw material economy anymore; we need to produce value added goods. We can become centered for the production of electric
batteries, electric vehicle for the whole Europe, for the whole world for United States.
We will need a lot of machinery to make sure that our agri sector will be more advanced. And we will need at least $20 billion for agri processing
equipment in order to produce more value added products in Ukraine.
So we've never looked at opportunities. And we're not asking the war just to give us money. We're talking about win-win case here. Because when
foreign companies, foreign investors will come to Ukraine, they will be able to help us but also will help them to become stronger in terms of
their interaction with global supply chain.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, it's interesting. We know a lot about the agricultural production because we've seen the impact in fuel prices all
around the world, sunflower oil production and it was a big one.
But actually what caught my attention there were the lithium batteries that the neon that's required when that has global implications for the auto
industry. So when you're talking about big multinationals, perhaps recognizing your importance in their supply chains, be they in the
agricultural sector in the auto sector, have some of them got in contact already and said, look how we can help.
Because to your point, this is an investment this is not necessarily a gift, there is potential for them to be involved.
TSIVKACH: Absolutely. I just came back from the border Ukrainian border with Poland because we had high level delegation from the United States.
I'm talking about businessmen, not delegation, and they are already exploring opportunities.
They want to help Ukraine but they also interested in a long term cooperation to develop - Official Corporation.
TSIVKACH: When we're talking about neon very important that U.S. audience understand that 90 percent of neon great semiconductors that are used by
U.S. automotive industry were produced in Ukraine, in the region of Mariupol.
And when we talk about sunflower oil, Ukraine is the biggest worldwide exporter of sunflower oil. We export 50 percent of world sunflower oil
And only about 9 percent of what we usually produce is being left in Ukraine and more than 90 percent annually exported to the world. And we
have seen that not only African, Asian, you know, the East countries are affected, but also European countries and United Kingdom because in United
Kingdom price of sunflower oil went up by 6 percent.
CHATTERLEY: OK, what can you tell me about Mariupol's production, and how long it's going to take to rebuild, even in a situation where it's
stabilized because, again, we're going back to a critical supply for the global auto industry.
What can you tell me about supplies, how much time it's going to take to rebuild, they're assuming we can because I think we; we've had these kinds
of images of Mariupol. And the devastation there, burned into our minds.
TSIVKACH: Mariupol city is fully destroyed, Kharkiv city, the city that is any Russian border, like 30 miles, they have more than 1000 buildings
destroyed, but Mariupol city is demolished.
So I would probably say that we need to wait till end an active phase of co-operation, and then we can assess how long it will take and how much
we'll need it. It will take a year or two to rebuild quickly. And it can take five or 10 years or 15 years.
If this support they were building support will not be affected enough or will not be significant enough. Mariupol port alone is the biggest metal
transshipments center from Ukraine and it the fifth biggest seaport in Ukraine.
So the region is very important. But it is very hard to see now you know how long it will take and much will depend on pressure on the world on
Russia, they have to stop what they're doing.
They have to stop doing criminal activity and this unprovoked as I said illegal aggression against Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: Sergiy, let's look back, final question on critical infrastructure, utilities, electricity, water, the basics for people to be
able to live. Have you had private investor interest in perhaps coming in helping you rebuild, modernize those kinds of utilities. Again, there's
return potential there for a private investor.
TSIVKACH: We already have this request. And actually today, we have received a request from a potential U.S. investor who is interested to end
semiconductor business in Ukraine, they already make this assessment and the water supplies and other strategic directions that are - Ukrainian
We received many requests. And we already do meetings in Kyiv. All of them say same thing. So as soon as this war ends, we will enter Ukraine. We have
seen requests from foreign countries; they're saying that they will relocate their facilities from other countries to Ukraine, just because
they think it will be the right thing to do. And they also they wait when this will end, so a lot of regrets.
We are working on that. But we are not just waiting for the end of the war in Ukraine. We're already doing our analytics. We're doing our proposal. So
I think there will be a lot of opportunities for impact investors, companies that will be interested to make profit, but they will be making
profit on a bit different kind of level.
They will have a lesser profit maybe at the beginning, but then after Ukraine will be reintegrated in global supply chain. They will benefit and
we'll be happy to see our international friends making business with us on a win-win basis.
CHATTERLEY: Right now we just pray for peace. Sergei, great to get you on, thank you so much for all the information and a lot of work to be done, but
good to see you're already getting cracking on it. Sergiy Tsivkach, the Executive Director of Ukrainian Invest thank you sir.
TSIVKACH: Thank you. Have a good day.
CHATTERLEY: You too, we're back after this.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back, a reminder of our top stories today. Officials say a civilian evacuation from the devastated city of Mariupol is underway.
But there are delays in getting the buses to the pickup points.
The fate of people still sheltering in the Azovstal steel plant remains uncertain. More than 100 were evacuated on Sunday, but Ukraine says
hundreds do remain. The plants came under heavy shelling overnight to and there is no word whether the next phase of that evacuation can still go
Ukraine's military says Russian forces are pressing forward in an offensive towards the Eastern Donetsk region, specifically, the town of Slavyansk. As
Russia continues with its offense in Ukraine's east, it's also clamping down on dissent at home.
Moscow is designating critics of the government foreign agents imposing severe restrictions on their freedom of speech. Many of them are choosing
to leave the country. Among them, is Ekaterina Schulmann?
She's a political scientist and Kremlin critic, even though she served on Vladimir Putin's Presidential Council for civil society and human rights
until he dismissed her in 2019.
The Kremlin designated her foreign agent last month just after she announced she was leaving Moscow for Berlin for a year. She's a fellow at
the Robert Bosch Academy. And Ekaterina joins us now, great to have you on the show.
I've heard you say in podcasts that you were expecting to be designated as a foreign agent, but perhaps the reality is different. How does it feel
EKATERINA SCHULMANN, POLITICAL SCIENTIST, KREMLIN CRITIC: This is not something that one expects; it's not a birthday present or New Year's
celebration. And frankly I don't think the public will be very much interested in my interior emotions.
SCHULMANN: But given the tempo of this list being filled with new and new names every Friday, and this name, so being familiar to people. And
especially when one saw the broadening circle of I would say social stripper included into this foreign agents registry.
First, it was mostly NGO activists, especially those who dealt with election observation. Then journalists then came academicians, teachers,
even one painter, and video bloggers and then it became more or less evident that my turn would count one Friday or the other.
By the way, I would like to note that last Friday, for some reason went without the usual use from the Minister of Justice. So no new foreign
agents, evidently, they went on their medications already, but we will expect them back with more with more news and more expected presence next
Friday, I suppose.
CHATTERLEY: Those that are familiar with your work in your podcasts know you're punchy, but I think they see you also as a voice of calm amid great
uncertainty. And I've noticed a consistent thread in your comments was that you felt like you needed to be in Moscow to make your point to spread your
word and to send the message and to get through to the people that needed to hear you.
How does being outside of Moscow, change that? And perhaps how you send your message? And do you still feel like your place is in Moscow, and in
Russia, if not, perhaps this Russia?
SCHULMANN: When I was back in, in my country, I was a rather persistent opponent to immigration. It has always been my position that while staying
in your place and doing your job is physically possible, it's better to use this opportunity while it lasts.
And I maybe I can say for myself, that I used it. While it was possible till maybe the very last moment you know that after February 24, many
people left immediately.
More people left within a few weeks. I will not say that it's a particular badge of honor, for me to have stayed a few weeks longer than the others.
But still, while there was no direct threat of let's say, frankly, criminal prosecution.
Now then, of course, we who are public speakers, and teachers and scholars, we try to stay where we belong. One can't avoid feeling that a word spoken
from outside of the country is fraught with much less risk, and therefore it's much less available.
You get freedom of speech, but this speech loses its about half of its consequence. But on the other hand, those who stay are more and more forced
to be completely silent, or to speak off nonpolitical subjects.
And I'm a political scientist; you have designated me a Kremlin critic. I don't think my main job was to criticize the Kremlin. Actually I studied
legislative process and parliamentary.
And this is what I taught to my students while I had the opportunity of teaching. This is what I wrote about, and that was very much in the domain,
the Russian Parliament during the last I don't know, 20 years.
And so I can't say that I am a radical oppositional figure. And maybe my experience tells something about the transformation that Russian political
sphere and public sphere in general has undergone in those very few last weeks.
CHATTERLEY: You know, you could make the argument to that you may be slightly safer somewhere else. But as history I think is proved you're
still not perfectly safe being outside of Moscow and Russia, even if you're around the world.
You know, I think what I'd love to get your take on is the informational war that's taking place. And you said at the beginning of this interview,
no one's interested in your emotional response.
But actually, I think we are as non-Russians watching this interested in, in Russian people's response to what we're seeing. And whether in some
ways, and I think it's human nature, it's perhaps easier to believe a lie than it is to accept the truth.
Do you think there's some element of that in Russian people's acknowledgement or understanding of what we're seeing today? And will that
change? What changes that whether it's Putin's behavior or what we see in this war?
SCHULMANN: Well, since the February of, February 24, the situation we found ourselves in war so to put it mildly uncomfortable unbearable that I can
understand the temptation to accept any version, however primitive.
SCHULMANN: And the version that would offer you a vestige of comfort, any picture, even taken from state TV that will still make you believe that
you're a good person living in a good place that you are comparatively safe, that the world has not broken into pieces.
I can perfectly understand the temptation, I feel it myself. So, especially in the recent weeks and days, I have been judging much more mildly those
people who support the official version of events because truth is hardly bearable.
The catastrophic is too palpable too, at the same time, it's palpable, and it's impossible to look it fully in the face. I'm a scholar; it's my duty
to study political reality. And I find it hard to even read the news to see nothing of analyzing them.
So again, when you hear and see people who say it's a special military operation, it's for our own good, we had no other choice, we're fighting
the Metis, et cetera.
Keep in mind that possibly in their hearts, there's this daily, hourly fear, and anxiety and horror and general impossibility to adapt to this
reality. It's like nothing we have experienced before.
It's not like 2014. It's not like 2008; it's a whole new reality. And it's extremely hard to come to terms with time must well, we do hope, time will
do something at adapting.
We human creatures tend to adapt to almost anything that happens. But now we are in what we may call an accurate and acute phase of what is
happening, no signs of hostilities, abating no light in the end of any tunnel that you can possibly look into.
CHATTERLEY: I guess the question is, when does that perhaps turn inward and turn on Putin for the - Ekaterina amount of time? Please come back on the
show. We had some technical issues. In the beginning, I would have had more time with you.
But I look forward to continuing this conversation. Thank you for your time and your wisdom.
SCHULMANN: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Ekaterina Schulmann, Fellow at the Robert Bosch Academy. Well "First Move" after the break.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. For global investors and not a lot of Mayflowers just yet the U.S. stocks were getting the new trading month little changed
after the worst monthly drop for tech stocks since 2008.
Weakness in Europe to all this ahead of an extremely busy few days for investors, including a Fed rate decision on Wednesday and fresh U.S. jobs
numbers on Friday.
Let me give just give you a sense for the year, the S&P and the NASDAQ have fallen well over 10 percent. The NASDAQ far and away the worst performer is
now down more than 20 percent.
The once mighty Fang tech stocks well and truly defanged at this year once again to take a look at Netflix down almost 70 percent since January.
Regulatory risks just one reason for tax underperformance.
The EU today is taking aim at Apple warning that the company are warning the company that it's unfairly blocking competitors from using the
technology behind Apple Pay with that warning before.
And Blunt Talk from Buffett Berkshire Hathaway CEO Warren Buffett criticizing Wall Street's during his annual shareholder meeting over the
weekend, saying larger American companies have become "poker chips" for market speculation.
Christine Romans joins me now. Christine, just one of fascinating comments that came out of this meeting actually, and always does and Robinhood also
the Trading App not spared the criticism. And obviously that share price has had a shock of this year as well.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. Well, first off just on the whole gambling parlor, as he called it
mentality and Wall Street. He has said things like this before, but he said the last couple of years, Julia, it's been even worse, where you have
people who are essentially speculators encouraged to make money by speculation, not necessarily investment.
And we know he's a big investment guy, right. And he says, ironically, that is what creates value for him because then they can step back and they can
look and see what Wall Street has beaten down, and they can find value.
And indeed they did in the first quarter of the year, somewhat $41 billion worth of purchases, but a warning again, from the Oracle of Omaha about the
speculative nature of Wall Street. Julia?
CHATTERLEY: One of the critics that came out to this as well, sometimes markets do crazy things that's good for Berkshire, not because we're smart,
but because we are saying yes, I like that point. But you know what, what also caught my attention, stupid and evil. What are we talking about,
ROMANS: Talking about Cryptocurrencies here and Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett are not fans of crypto, just the opposite. You know, Warren Buffett
actually saying, look, I can value price land, or farmland rather, I know how to price an apartment building.
He said I wouldn't give $25 for all of the crypto all the Bitcoin in the world. And then Charlie Munger was even direr. And he has been very, very
sharp about crypto before he called it stupid and evil.
And he said the one thing he doesn't want to be as more foolish and everybody else in the room, if you buy crypto you are that person you are.
It is stupid evil and you are the fool.
So they're really talking about how this is not something that stores value. It's not something that you can that you can rate, what kind of
value it holds, the wave could hit rate other commodities, or stocks or other instruments.
And they're very, very, very out there about their aversion to it. I will say though, the crypto bros are not going to care. They're going to say
these guys are investment dinosaurs, honestly, right? And they just don't get it. Warren Buffett says I don't get the value. This is not something
I'm engaged in.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, that comment was really quite strange to me. I understand what he said. Farmland has a rental unit produces food
apartments, you can get rent from the apartments, I wouldn't buy the whole of the Bitcoin market for $25.
I would and then sell it at current market prices and make an absolute killing something strange about that comment Christine, thank you for that.
ROMANS: The output is 13-50; we can split it together, right? Well, each -
CHATTERLEY: It's a deal, my friend. Thank you, more after this. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: We leave you with a powerful moment from New York's Metropolitan Opera over the weekend. That's Ukrainian Sukarno leave - Milan
Monastyrska who performed the title role of - curtain call draped in the Ukrainian flag. That's it for the show. Stay safe. "Connect the World" is
up next and I'll see you tomorrow.