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First Move with Julia Chatterley
WEF Delegates Discuss Threat of Global Recession; Damberg: The Green Transition Must be Accelerated; Intel Launches new chip Focused on AI Computing; Russia House in Davos Turned to Russian War Crimes House; Oxfam: New Billionaire Minted Every Day during Pandemic; South Korea's New Leader says age of appeasing North Korea is Over. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired May 23, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: Warm Welcome to the World Economic Forum here in Davos, Switzerland I'm Julia Chatterley. And it's the first
ever springtime meeting and the first in-person of course, since the pandemic began, there's no shortage clearly, of urgent issues to discuss
for business leaders for world leaders.
Let me just walk you through what we're seeing at this moment. It includes, of course, the three month old war in Ukraine, the increased risk of global
recession and escalating global food crisis as well as the ongoing COVID pandemic. The Head of the IMF saying today that the global economy faces
its biggest test since World War II, delegates also hearing from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who made another impassioned plea for more
aggressive fresh sanctions on Russia in a virtual address earlier today, just listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: --the maximum so that Russia and every other potential - wants to wage a brutal war against its neighbor
which clearly know the immediate consequences for their actions. And I believe there are still no such sanctions against Russia. There should be
Russian oil embargo all the Russian banks should be barred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: There is no better - there is no better person to discuss this with than Richard Quest, who joins us now, number 21?
RICHARD QUEST, ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: I think so yes, 21.
CHATTERLEY: I believe for you. And there's some may be out. But oh, boy, the clouds are gathering and you feel it? I think in the conversations that
you're having there.
QUEST: Completely, this is a time for serious people in serious places and so yes, whilst there's a lot of froth, if you will, on the promenade and
the cyber this and Bitcoin, that and all that. In the Conference Center every conversation I've had, first of all, you've got to remember, a lot of
people aren't here.
So the only people who are here those who really felt it were important to actually as a policymaker to be involved in the discussions. So the level
of debate and discussion here is four or five notches higher than we've seen in recent years at Davos. There are really serious, furrowed brows and
I'm hearing again, and again, is everybody saying this is absolutely the most difficult time with the destruction of all the values that we hold,
dear.
CHATTERLEY: And there are so many things here. Do you trust those serious people in the room to be able to address the crises? And there's so many,
where do you even start, whether it's still COVID? It's the climate crisis, which we often talk about here. But we've got to - it's so far beyond
central banks responding to inflation, it's a cost of living crisis everywhere in the world. It's sort of Whack a Mole and everything you do to
try and tackle that increases the pain?
QUEST: Yes. There are no easy solutions. So you're right absolutely. Ukraine is the number one, because Ukraine - yes, of course, because from
Ukraine flows out all the other issues, as long as the war in Ukraine continues. So you end up with supply chain issues?
Yes, China has got that as well. But you get with serious food issues, as long as Russia and Ukraine have that. And you have the energy issues with
Germany, Hungary and Italy. So the war in Ukraine is by far the most instrument, in a sense, crisis that needs to be legal, it can't be dealt
with, but managed as best we can.
CHATTERLEY: The Chief of the World Food Programme, David Beasley said to me on a panel earlier today, but not - thank you, Richard, not opening the
port in Odessa allowing that green to flow is, in effect, a declaration of war against food security, and I don't think you could say it better.
Like we have to be having these discussions here now and the question is, and the risk perhaps is that we get fatigued with --?
QUEST: Oh, totally what happens after the summer, when people in Europe come back after the first vacations in two years decent holidays, in two
years? They come back, the war still going. Energy prices are high, the UK and one of the leading UK suppliers said yesterday expecting even higher
bills and that food security you talked about.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
QUEST: So OK, in the developed world, it's from inflation. In the developing world, it's because they simply can't get the grain Egypt, Sudan
wherever it might be. They can't get the grain from Russia or Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: Well, let's be clear, it was already a few crises just escalated for--
QUEST: Absolutely.
CHATTERLEY: So many things we have to address.
QUEST: But if this is still going on, God forbid after the summer, then people will start to say my fuel bills just gone up 70 percent my weekly
food bill is gone up 40 percent and why? The real risk with this danger or the real danger is that we start to accept Russia territorial gains in the
Eastern part of Ukraine as being the price for getting this over and done with.
[09:05:00]
QUEST: That is something that Biden it's something that's a Van Der Leyen, Scholz, Macron and Boris Johnson, that's what they're going to have to
face.
CHATTERLEY: And I'm just doing the math there - not one of those faces in the election of sorts later this year. What about U.S. midterms coming? If
those are the kinds of pressures and it's not, hey, I blame Russia for it. I blame my policymakers for not doing enough to tackle it. Richard, I'm
being told--
QUEST: That the economy stupid, that was the phrase.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
QUEST: That was the phrase, and that will come back to haunt.
CHATTERLEY: So many of them - you will be back. Thank you, Richard. Richard Quest there! As we were just mentioning President Biden making unexpected
headlines in Tokyo this morning, surprising his top aides yet again, the President was asked if the United States military would get involved if
China invaded Taiwan. And this was his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn't want to get involved in the Ukraine conflict militarily for obvious reasons. Are you willing to get involved
militarily to defend Taiwan if it comes to that?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are?
BIDEN: That's a commitment we made. We agree with the One China policy, we signed on to it and all the attendant agreements made from there. But the
idea that that can be taken by force, just taken by force is just not it's just not appropriate to dislocate the entire region and be another action
similar to what happened in Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: The White House working quickly to clarify the president's comments. Blake Essig joins us now to discuss. Blake, I think my first
response to this is, ouch simply. Obviously, you would expect a welcoming of these comments from Taiwan less so to say the least over in China.
BLAKE ESSIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely Julia. I mean no question this was the biggest line to come out of the press conference between
President Biden and Japan's Prime Minister Fumio Kishida. Immediately CNN was told by multiple sources, several of President Biden's top
administrative officials that they were caught off guard when he made those comments in just moments afterwards, the White House clarified that the
U.S. policy of strategic ambiguity on Taiwan hadn't changed, making it less clear whether military intervention would happen.
Now as part of that strategic ambiguity it's important to remember that the U.S. provides Taiwan defensive weapons but has remained intentionally
ambiguous on whether it would intervene militarily in the event of a Chinese attack.
China has since responded to President Biden's comments urging the U.S. to earnestly follow the One China policy under which the U.S. acknowledges
China's claim of sovereignty over Taiwan. And as you played earlier, during that press conference, President Biden did elaborate essentially saying
that the U.S. agrees with the One China policy, but that the idea that Taiwan could be taken by force isn't appropriate.
President Biden has gone further than his administration's public policy before on this matter, as he did last fall during a CNN town hall also
forcing aides back then, to walk his comments back. Of course, there have been rising concerns that China might be emboldened to go after Taiwan
after watching Russia invade Ukraine.
And previously Prime Minister Kishida has hinted that he sees parallels between Russia's actions in Europe and China's expansion into the Indo-
Pacific. Now on the security front along with agreeing to continue monitoring Chinese and Russian joint military drills in the region the two
leaders did discuss the importance of peace and stability on the Taiwan Strait, saying each country remains committed to making sure that China
doesn't change the status quo by force.
But also, President Biden made it clear that the U.S. is fully committed to Japan's defense while Prime Minister Kishida said Japan would not rule out
any options including counter attack capabilities.
Julia domestically, here in Japan, there's been a push to increase defense spending from one to 2 percent of GDP and improve its defensive capability
within the framework of the country's pacifist constitution. The two leaders also talked about countering China economically.
It was a primary focus of today's bilateral meeting with Prime Minister Kishida saying that Japan would participate in the Indo-Pacific economic
framework that was announced by President Biden last October.
Now at this point, the jury is still out on this economic plan that's built on trade supply chains, clean energy, de-carbonization infrastructure, tax
and anti-corruption but experts say a lack of clarity substance and the U.S. has recent unimpressive commitment of $150 million to Southeast Asia
compared to the billions China has invested makes it a tough sell.
[09:10:00]
ESSIG: That'll be said, Julia, so far 12 Asian nations are planning to join President Biden's economic plan for Asia. Again, the main objective to
counter China economically, as far as their influence in the region is concerned.
CHATTERLEY: Yes Blake, you named it there. I mean, the whole list of issues, things to discuss, far outweigh the one issue, which is the
definition concerns over the United States relationship with the likes of China and Taiwan. So I'm glad that we also shed light on some of those
strategic relationships and the importance of them for so many reasons. Blake great to have you with us, Blake Essig there!
Now here at the World Economic Forum, the war in Ukraine, as Richard was saying front and center, with a dramatically altered security landscape,
just among many of the consequences Russia went into Ukraine, hoping to stop the expansion of NATO instead, its aggression triggered membership
bids from both Sweden and Finland.
And joining us now is Mikael Damberg he's Sweden's Finance Minister. Minister, fantastic to have you on the show thank you for joining us!
There's too much to discuss. But we'll begin talking about NATO because this is very important.
Of course, there were discussions over the weekend Turkey, who's seemingly standing in the way of your future membership, and Finland's laying out
their conditions, can those conditions be met? Should they be met?
MIKAEL DAMBERG, SWEDISH FINANCE MINISTER: I think from a perspective, we have now for 200 years has been a non-aligned country. We had had
discussions with all NATO membership countries before our application. And now Turkey says that they have some, some remarks and positions, of course-
-
CHATTERLEY: Their position changed.
DAMBERG: Yes, their position changed. So now we'll have to have a dialogue. And also our Prime Minister has had talked with Erdogan and both
bilaterally and together with Finland. And together NATO, because we see that many of the NATO membership, countries actually want Finland and
Sweden joining NATO, in our strategic position in Northern Europe, but also with our military capacities. So of course this has to be handled.
CHATTERLEY: Can they be convinced?
BAMBERG: I think - I shouldn't speculate because I understand that Turkey in some other cases has had raised questions, and sometimes they have been
solved. So we are working very constructively, together with them having dialogue.
But of course, this isn't a bigger question that not only evolved to Sweden, Finland and Turkey; it involves the whole of NATO.
CHATTERLEY: It does. You have the luxury or at least the foresight of not having the same strategic level of reliance in terms of energy on Russia,
but your country feeling the consequences, like many others, whether it's food price rises, whether it's energy price rises, what do you make of what
we're seeing, because there's multi fund crises that we're discussing here in Davos and the whole world is having to grapple with and decide how best
to respond. It's not easy, particularly when you have elections coming up.
DAMBERG: Of course, we see an effect on our growth. Not as high as we expected before the war, but still a stable growth, we see higher prices.
But we also see the long term perspective that Europe really has to unlock our dependence on Russia in oil and gas.
So this must be the time where we actually step up and do more of the green transition. And what we see in Sweden, in our perspective, that's really
creating jobs in Sweden now. We have huge investments in the green industries in Sweden. So we see the possibilities also inside a crisis.
CHATTERLEY: Do you think other nations get that?
DAMBERG: No, I think many countries don't see the possibility to actually have economic growth and job creation and green transition on the same
time, but Sweden and some of the Nordic countries actually are the example that shows it's possible.
Now, we have huge investments in northern part of Sweden, in steel industries in the battery industry, the car industry, the renewable energy
side. So this really creates tens of thousands jobs in our Rust Belt, in our part of society, where the development has gone the wrong way in
decades now actually seize new jobs and, and lower unemployment.
CHATTERLEY: Do you worry about the risk of global recession?
DAMBERG: Of course, we see that as a possible threat--
CHATTERLEY: Not inevitability?
DAMBERG: Not inevitability it is how we handle the crisis. And also, it depends on what Russia do in Ukraine, of course, that could set up even a
bigger fire in the global economy.
CHATTERLEY: And if we look at the situation today, you've played down the risk of some form of retaliation from Russia. And as you began at the
beginning of this conversation, we'll see what happens with Turkey and the NATO situation but you know there's a dual war going on here.
There's a sort of cyber security risk or and that's playing into democracies, into societies how prepared are you because that also has to
be a piece of the defense budget spending that you're focused on and it's sort of an under represented reported risk I think at this moment too.
[09:15:00]
CHATTERLEY: Are you prepared for that?
DAMBERG: I think Sweden is a digital front runner. We have the Ericsson there 5G, we have the gaming companies, we have the banks being much
digitalized.
CHATTERLEY: That must be more vulnerable there?
DAMBERG: And yes, so that's my point. That's my point. So very far ahead in the sensation, and that brings also risks and insecurities. So for us,
we're aiming at this pointing at this, and we have to raise awareness. But we also have to gather all the competencies in a Cybersecurity Center that
has been inspired what they've done in London and Great Britain. So we try to work very close to them as well.
CHATTERLY: There are reasons to be optimistic because I do think the mood here is very concerned about what we're seeing and the uncertainties of
what we're facing at this moment because that's the key. It's not like we have all the answers we don't.
DAMBERG: The uncertainties are beginning now than before yes. But it depends on how to handle a crisis and for Sweden we're kind of in the
golden position. We have a strong public finances. We have the green transition already happening. So for us it's easier but I'm more worried
about the global scale and the poor countries in the world that actually will be very hard hit by the prices on food for instance. So to also to
have a global perspective here in Davos it is very important.
CHATTERLEY: You're right. It's always the poorest and perhaps the weakest that are hurt most in this kind of crisis and we have to keep talking about
them. Minister great to have you with us thank you so much Sweden's Minister of Finance there Mikael Damberg.
OK coming up here in Davos the Head of Semiconductor Giant Intel and much more we discussed the global chip shortage. Plus tackling vaccine
inequality the fear of the Serum Institute of India one of the world's largest vaccine manufacturers it's coming right up stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to Davos here in Switzerland. President Biden's turn warning to China over Taiwan a reminder of its important amid a global
semiconductor shortage Taiwan of course one of the world's biggest manufacturers of those chips. One of the companies also working to tackle
this supply issue in the longer term is tech giant Intel.
Joining us now and pleased to say is the Intel CEO Patrick Gelsinger.
[09:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Sir fantastic to have you with us.
PATRICK GELSINGER, CEO, INTEL: Thank you! What a joy? What a great spot?
CHATTERLEY: I know, despite the challenging discussions that are taking place here, and it's nice not to have the snow. And you've said it, I think
in really powerful terms that we everything that's going on, be it COVID be it Shanghai port closures, the challenges, the issues that we have in their
vast with chips are going to push into 2024.
My question to you is why is this not putting a giant rocket up the behind politely of U.S. Congress to say, get the chips app done?
GELSINGER: Well, I couldn't be more anxious, excited and aligned with that view. Let's get it done. You can have strong Republican support strong
Democrat support, passed the Senate passed the House time they get it conference, and then get it on the President's desk. He has said clearly I
want to sign this ASAP. I want it done before the summer recess in July, so that we can go bigger and faster with our build out.
CHATTERLEY: What's the holdup that is it? Just I guess some of the Republicans there they don't want to give Biden a win before the U.S.
midterms? Does it come down to posturing and politics?
GELSINGER: Well, you know, nothing happens fast in Washington. You know, and if I was running a business that way, you know, boy, you know--
CHATTERLEY: --business.
GELSINGER: Yes, but you know, we now feel like we're close to the finish line. And I'd say every one of your listeners; tell your representative or
your Senator get this finished now. It is overdue, because the world is moving on, right?
We've seen strong actions in India, strong actions in Korea, Japan, and here in EU, you know, they started the year later than the U.S. Chips Act.
And I will probably see euros before I see dollars.
CHATTERLEY: And you are making massive investments accordingly. I mean, you've made investments admittedly in Ohio, and that's part of the bigger
plan. But you've also said, and there was talk that this could be a $100 billion investment over the next decade, do you need that Chips Act in the
United States to do it? Because you'd put the money there surely anyway. But hey, how about a bit of incentive?
GELSINGER: Yes. And I've said very clearly, you know, we're going to go small and slow in Ohio, or we're going to go big and fast. It is very
simple because without the incentive dollars, we're not competitive worldwide. And that's what caused this.
Now, think about it. You know, 30 years ago, 80 percent of this industry was in U.S. and Europe today 80 percent of its in Asia. How did that
happen, right?
Well, what happened was there were strong policies in Taiwan, Korea and China, you know, because Congress never in the U.S. said, we don't want
this industry. But those Asian countries said, do and they took put strong policies in place. And what the Chip Act is designed is to bring that back
to parity across the world.
CHATTERLEY: Without better balance.
GELSINGER: Indeed, right? It's just saying I can't make major manufacturing investments like this in the U.S. if they're not competitive, right? You
know, and then I can't compete on the world scale. That's exactly what we're asking for, get us back to competitive, you'll put those long term
research dollars at play. That's the heart of the Chips Act, get it done.
CHATTERLEY: You have to make big decisions, long term decisions at a time of incredible uncertainty. And I think that's part of the backdrop and the
discussions that are taking place. And we've seen that sort of shakedown, I think in tech stocks but of course, it's across the board.
There's the sort of growth fears, there's cost of living crisis fears, and you can tell me to what extent all of that feeds into your latest earnings
because even when I look at the client computing business, there seem to be a reticence to put a bit of money to work. How does that play out? What's
the recession risk on a note sort of finger in the wind? But give me the - give me your sense.
GELSINGER: Yes, I think there's a bit of economic softening, right, because we're seeing some consumer pullback as well. And you know we were so hot
for so long. I also say some of it may be allows us to have a period of a bit of supply demand rebalancing as well, fundamentally, the business
market is unquestionably strong, right?
And we continue to see that and that's where, you know, I think the most acute thing is, you know, building automobiles and getting factories
builder strong. But you know, there's probably a little bit of inflation, monetary tightening, that's going to cause a bit more of a reprieve, but
fundamentally our investments, it takes me four years to build a new factory.
I cannot make those judgments on a quarterly basis, when we see the industry doubling between now and the end of the decade. So our investment
policies are through the decade, and we are going to make those strategic investments, even if there's a little bit of bump for a quarter two along
the way. That's OK because this is a long term play.
CHATTERLEY: What are we least prepared for? I mean, there are - what was it that the IMF Chief said a calamity, a cascade of calamities, that's not her
words, but it's a pretty good one phrase to deal with here. What worries you most and what are we least prepared for?
GELSINGER: Well, you know, I think all of these supply chain disruptions, you know, have just given us such a stark wake up call. You know, and I
call it that we've gone from just in time supply chains and what we need to do is go to just in case supply chains.
[09:25:00]
GELSINGER: We need resilience and all of these things. And I've said, you know, geopolitics across the world has been defined by where the oil
reserves are for the last five decades, for the next several decades, where the fab are is more important, because every aspect of human existence is
becoming more--
CHATTERLEY: Digitalized.
GELSINER: Everything digital runs on semiconductors build the fab where we want them.
CHATTERLEY: Does it matter more than food?
GELSINGER: You know--
CHATTERLEY: I've got a - I'm on the crusade here, because we have a global food crisis around the world, and it's escalating. And part of that is the
war in Ukraine. Is that in addition to what you're talking about, because the idea that even fab and semiconductors are more important than energy
today is is a bold statement to me?
GELSINGER: It is but you know, I'd also say as we look at the food supply, well, how those supply chain manage, right through digital? How are you
know, the next generation--
CHATTERLEY: How can better manage?
GELSINGER: Yes and how are the next generation of you know, right self- driving tractors and automation of food generation? It's all based on digital. So it is so foundational to every aspect of human existence, you
know, that we just kind of get it done.
CHATTERLEY: You know it's fascinating. You're going to come back and talk to me more purely about your business. That's the beauty and the pain of
Davos in the ways that we talk about so much. But you said position VMware before you became the Chief of Intel, but you had 30 years' experience
let's be clear Intel, too.
I want to ask you about pay, because shareholders of Intel recently voted down what was a near $180 million pay package for you? Tough question, is
that fair? You couldn't bring more expertise? And I think more proven expertise in what you've done. How do you convince them?
GELSINGER: Well, you know, the pay package, as it is, you know, it was sort of three parts. You know, one was a base salary and base compensation,
which is the 50 percentile of CEOs. To sort of say, that's fair, you know, right in the middle, right. And then there was essentially taking off the
table what I was already at no risk from VMware.
And the third was other incentives that are entirely aligned with shareholders. I don't get a penny of that, if the stock doesn't perform. So
you can go calculate how much that's worth, but it's worth zero if shareholders don't get an extraordinary payout as well. So in that sense,
hey, I think it's reasonable at the same time, finally, I'm going to get most of its charity anyway.
CHATTERLEY: Now, that's a great point. How much?
GELSINGER: Well, you know, my wife and I made a commitment years ago, that we were going to give an increasing percentage of our gross salary to
charity every year. That's over 50 percent of our gross salary now, and it's just going to keep going up. So clearly, the majority of this is going
to go to charity in all circumstances, if I get a little bit or I got a lot, we're excited to improve the world.
As for as many people as we possibly can. That's the Intel model and vision that we say that we are going to work on technologies that improve the life
of every person on the planet. And that's my personal dream as well.
CHATTERLEY: And it's an important message. You're standing your ground, sir. Great to chat to you thank you.
GELSINGER: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: We will reconvene there is much to discuss. Thank you, the Intel CEO there. Alright, we can take a break straight ahead. The Ukrainian
flags are flying high at Davos as President Zelenskyy calls for action more action from world leaders. We'll be joined by one of the Ukrainian
lawmakers representing their country, here at the Summit stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:30:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! Ukraine's President Zelenskyy warning that up to 100 people could be dying every day in the east of the country as the war
grinds on. And in the meantime, Ukraine's first war crimes trial came to a close this morning too. A 21-year-old Russian soldier was sentenced to life
in prison for killing an unarmed man.
Melissa Bell joins us now from Kyiv in Ukraine. Melissa, great to have you with us! I guess we can suggest that this is the beginnings of some form of
justice but the truth is the war rages on.
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Julia. And that's what made this particular case being held in a civilian court even while the war
rages on so particular so extraordinary so unique, really.
21-year-old Vadim Shishimarin found guilty and sentenced to life in jail for having killed an unarmed civilian on the fourth day of the war. Now he
and his column had been coming in some of his men had been escaping in a stolen car. He'd been given the order to shoot this video and in order to
this video, not reporters.
Now Vadim Shishimarin intends to appeal. He says that he was following orders. That is his defense. But the verdict as it was read, took 50
minutes to read out with a judge really going to great lengths to explain the nature of Ukrainian law that Vadim Shishimarin was being sentenced for
having killed premeditated murder that is in violation of the customs and laws of war.
And I think the fact that it took so long was really a reminder of the fact that this trial happens in that context. They have also explained to us the
prosecutors that they want to move ahead with these trials, because it is about sending a strong signal Julia, to those Russian soldiers, even now
fighting in Eastern Ukraine.
But the other aspects of this civilian court's ruling, even as the war rages on, is that it happens of course, even as prisoners of war are now
being held on the Russian side of this war. We heard this morning from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs that it was willing to look at the
possibility of a prisoner of war exchanges with regard to those Azovstal fighters.
Remember that as we speak now Julia, those 2500 or so Azovstal fighters that fought till the bitter end to try and defend Mariupol handed
themselves over in full by Friday night, are now prisoners of war in the Donetsk People's Republic.
We've been hearing today from the Leader of the Donetsk People's Republic, that row tribunal is being prepared even now, so that the men can face
trials of their own. So there is, even as the battle goes on in the east, this extraordinary tale of two judicial systems playing out as well Julia
CHATTERLEY: We'll continue to watch that too. Melissa Bell, thank you for joining us there from Kyiv! Now here in Davos, Ukrainian President
Zelenskyy kicked off the summit, with a call for maximum sanctions against Russia.
And meanwhile, the venue typically used by the Russian Delegation to promote itself has undergone a rebrand known this year as the Russian war
crimes house. It puts the violence and devastation in Ukraine on display for everyone to see.
We're joined now by Ukrainian President of Parliament Alona Shkrum. Alona great to have you with us! Why you're here? What's the message that you
bring? And obviously President Zelenskyy was chosen as a keynote to kick off this forum?
[09:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: Do you think he's being heard here, if not around the world too?
ALONA SHKRUM, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: I really hope he's been heard. I think he's, you know, he's shown this new kind of honesty, and new kind of
diplomacy is the standard diplomacy did not work for Ukraine as a standard.
You know tone of voice and standard phrases did not work for Ukraine to stop this war and not help it to continue. So he's been very honest, he's
been very straightforward. He has been telling, because it is like an economic forum, what he exactly wants, what investment we need, what we
need countries to do more, and I hope he's being heard.
I mean, I've seen U.S. Senators actually having tears in their eyes while he was talking and finishing his speech. So it's obviously it's a very
emotional time for us. But we really appreciate, you know, not the words, but the deeds that we have here.
CHATTERLEY: He's proved brilliant, I think on a regular basis at holding a mirror up to the world and making them ask themselves incredibly tough
questions. And that's the key to your point, I think about action too.
What concrete action can you get because we have to talk about rebuilding? We have to talk about a broader Marshall Plan and I know the IMF Chief has
talked about that. Are you having those conversations here to business? What city can you take ownership of can you help rebuild? Just talk us
through some of those conversations?
SHKRUM: So basically, we are here was a woman delegation. Its five members of parliament who are women, for men, it's much difficult more to leave the
countries they don't want to leave the country; some of them are fighting even members of parliament.
So we are here with so called Women Battalion, a diplomatic battalion. And we are here each on a specific task, I will say there are four things that
we need to cover and we are covering. First is obviously showing the real pictures what is going on in Kyiv in Odessa in Mariupol.
Right now, President Zelenskyy said that people just died yesterday. This is the first time of my life where I'm so scared to open the phone in the
morning because a person I know might be dead and a person I knew that was creating amazing festivals in Odessa region a kite surfer just was shot two
days ago because he was evacuating people from the East to Odessa.
So those are the horrifying things that we need to talk about even you know, even is this nice spring atmosphere. This is something that we have
to.
CHATTERLEY: We have to talk about.
SHKRUM: Yes, this is the first task. The second task is purely economic one. We have meetings with Heads of CEOs of the biggest companies, or we
have meetings with investments. We have meetings with world leaders and country leaders who can take mentorship over specific regions.
This is a deal that has been there for a number of months. But we have regions and cities which have very close ties with some of the European
countries. For example, Mariupol is actually a Greek City and Greece have told us a number of times that we are ready to help rebuild it. We are
ready to help the tourism develop after the war after we win.
Of course Odessa is a very Francophone city, they spoke French there we have French people there. It was built by a French architect. So obviously
it would make sense for France to help with Odessa region with their culture, with the investment.
And there are specific companies who are interested in very specific areas of expertise IT, Robotics, Digitalization, even now when the war is still
going, so we are having those discussions.
CHATTERLEY: Great. And this is a rallying cry for you here as well. So if businesses want to take ownership has not yet been in contact, this is the
moment where they can and you're here and ready.
SHKRUM: Exactly. The more painful discussions, all sorts of discussions as there are businesses here that are still operating in Russia. And there are
still countries who allow like Germany and Italy allow their companies to pay for Russian gas in Rubles.
So they're basically sponsoring Putin to continue this war, while we here need actually to stop this war as fast as possible. And in Ukraine, believe
me we don't want this tragedy to come any to any other part of the world.
We don't want it to be in Poland, we don't want this war to go to Finland, even though Putin threatens them a number of times. This needs to stop with
Ukrainian forces on Ukrainian territory.
CHATTERLEY: I will make the point that there is a real gray area over those Euro Ruble swaps that are going on and we're going to push for
clarification this week, I promise you. And the other thing I think is some of those businesses, and I've spoken to a number of them, too are making
tough decisions, particularly those in the food industry because the global food crisis is exacerbated if Russia's fertilizer rushes grain doesn't get
to the world too.
So it's a - do you fight a bigger food crisis wars or do you try and help Ukraine with the war they're dealing with? I want to go to that because the
breadbasket of the world, Ukraine, those ports, beyond anything need opening because then it's not just your war. It's a war that goes on around
the world to feed people. And you're here to promote that message to?
SHKRUM: Yes, this is our first task actually. You're completely right, because this is something we need to very urgently. I mean, all of the
messages are urgent, but this is something we need to be done and to be dealt before August probably because Ukraine is bread basket it for Africa
for countries of the Northern Africa, Middle East.
[09:40:00]
SHRKUM: Even in France, the price of croissants has already increased, because we were not able to export the grains. All of our storages are
full, our farmers are in bulletproof vests right now taking it under the bombings, and they're doing everything they need. And they will continue to
do that. But we need to do block support in Odessa.
And we need the NATO or warships we need this specific country ships to guarantee a safe passage through the Black Sea to those countries that need
it. Because you know, we've had COVID already. We've had the war and we're having the war in Europe. We don't need hunger in the world.
I think that is too much for Putin to take and this is the catastrophes that he is trying to do. He is trying to be a terrorist who is terrorizing
the whole world for the hunger right now.
CHATTERLEY: Putin responsible potentially for global famine, because that's where we could be headed.
SHRKUM: Yes, yes. And he should be trialed for that in Hague, or in any other international tribunal.
CHATTERLEY: Alona Shkrum the part of the battalion that was sent from Ukraine to spread the word. Thank you for joining us.
SHKRUM: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: A powerful message. OK, still to come two years into the pandemic and the world still battling to get COVID vaccines to the most
vulnerable. We'll speak to the CEO of the world's largest vaccine manufacturer by volume next; the Serum Institute of India stays with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERELY: Welcome back! To a common message here at the World Economic Forum and that is that the rich are getting richer. A new report by Oxfam
show some 573 people have become billionaires since 2020 that means a new billionaire was minted nearly every day during the pandemic.
At the same time rising food prices around the world could push more than 260 million people into extreme poverty this year alone. And one big area
of inequality is the supply and the distribution of COVID vaccines. My next guest took the lead on vaccine production in India for the rest of the
world to delivering 1.5 billion doses of its vaccine by the end of 2021.
Joining us now is Adar Poonawalla the CEO of the Serum Institute of India. The institute is the world's largest vaccine maker by volume, and its shots
are mainly distributed to low income countries worldwide. A huge pleasure not finally to meet face to face.
[09:45:00]
CHATERLEY: So it's interesting. The last time you and I were talking was digital Davos, earlier this year, while everybody else was saying, look,
we've got a supply crisis; we need to talk about the inequality. You were saying hang on second, guys I'm not pointing fingers.
But I think we've got a demand problem, and specifically across the African Continent, you were concerned about the demand about orders about getting
shots into arms. Tell me where we are today?
ADAR POONAWALLA, CEO, SERUM INSTITUTE OF INDIA: Well, I mean, we're not in a very different place to that at the moment. You know, in November, when
India lifted its temporary restriction, like most countries had their restrictions, our restriction went on a little bit longer.
But as soon as that was over, we offered hundreds of millions of doses to the African Continent. But, you know, sadly, their absorption capacity has
not been to the level that we all hoped. And we're all working together closely with them to try and--
CHATTERELY: Why? What's going on?
POONAWALLA: Well, it's a combination of factors, you know, as cases and the severity of COVID has gone down globally, especially on the African
Continent, which is, of course, a good thing. You know, the urgency to come forward to take vaccinations is sort of dwindled. And, you know, so they've
had their challenges that way--
CHATTERLEY: On the - cost priorities to make as well, given the multiline crises that are going on, I guess. Are you talking to China, by the way?
POONAWALLA: Well, we wouldn't have a problem giving them providing them vaccines if they needed. But I think given the geopolitical situation, it
would probably be tough for them to have a vaccine made in India, but we're happy to help any nation that needs treatments for COVID-19.
CHATTERLEY: A diplomatic response, and the answer is no, to your point. You know, it's anecdotal, but it's my own experience. I flew from New York,
where cases are rapidly rising, I'm vaccinated. I've had a booster I got COVID, and I got pretty sick. And I was mRNA platform.
POONAWALLA: I'm sorry to hear that.
CHATTERLEY: --vaccinated. And you know I speak to people who are increasingly skeptic about needing boosters every six months? Why should I
aren't vaccine supposed to work every five to 10 years?
And you've made some pointed comments that perhaps play to the vaccines that you distribute, but you believe there's a difference between mRNA
platforms and the more traditional, like, the AstraZeneca of the world?
POONAWALLA: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: What do we need to understand from your perspective?
POONAWALLA: Yes, so I mean, look, I don't have any biases. I mean, I'm just a manufacturer the way I look at it is that you want a vaccine that ideally
would prevent transmission. Sadly, these vaccines have not been able to prevent transmission of disease. But have worked all of them have worked
very well, in reducing the severity and preventing hospitalizations and deaths.
Now, from my perspective, a good vaccine would be one that gives you a long term T-cell response. The Messenger RNA vaccines are very good they provide
a good protection but require a lot of boosting as well. And, you know, it's a new technology. And we're all very excited to see what happens in
the future.
But I've usually made and manufactured the traditional vaccines with the traditional technologies. And, you know, we're very excited about the
future of what Messenger RNA can bring to the vaccine space.
CHATTERLEY: But are you worried about skepticism, because I'm hearing it people going, you know, I've had vaccines in the past to get a booster and
I'm done for life, or I'm done for 10 years. And we have to get our mindset around the idea that fine if you're cutting out hospitalizations, and
you're cutting out deaths, and that's, that's phenomenal. But you still have to get people to go back every six months and get a booster.
POONAWALLA: That's always a problem.
CHATTERLEY: That's a problem.
POONAWALLA: That's always a challenge, because you need to get your information from the right sources. Today with social media and, you know,
skepticism, as you mentioned, naturally, that would create fear in people's minds. I think any vaccine that you can get your hands on is a good
vaccine. That's the way to put it.
CHATTERLEY: Doing both though - do an mRNA and do an AstraZeneca let's put it that way.
POONAWALLA: Well, you know that combination has worked out quite well to give you a best of both worlds to speak, to put it that way. And it's
giving you a longer term response as well.
CHATTERLEY: I have to ask Monkeypox. I don't even know what to say to follow that I'm not sure the world can even bear to read the word. What do
we need to understand?
POONAWALLA: Well, I think we're all just we've just got fatigue of all these diseases and potential new pandemics. I think the way to look at it
is it does seem to need prolonged exposure to be transmitted.
CHATTERLEY: Because the message is don't panic.
POONAWALLA: So the message is don't panic. I think we'll wait and watch to get more information and data of how it's spreading and you know how to
treat it? So I think it's still too early and we shouldn't panic.
CHATTERLEY: It's interesting. You're also a prolific investor. And I was looking at your CV investments in microfinance wellness provider, a firm
that manufactures test kits for COVID-19. You're also not above giving Elon Musk investment advice too, and I saw it on Twitter. You said look, if he
doesn't buy Twitter in the end, he should come and make cars in India.
POONAWALLA: Yes, I mean he'll have some spare cash leftover and there's no better place to invest in India. You know the regulatory environment the
talent the hard work and commitment of the workforce it's, ideally suited to manufacturing of any kind.
[09:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: Well, people welcome.
POONAWALLA: Absolutely. We want as many foreign companies to come into India, especially as an alternative, you know, to China, even where you've
got, as I mentioned, a great dedicated workforce, good environment, and regulatory procedures. I think they just need to work out their logistics
on that. And I hope they come.
CHATTERLEY: Elon if you're are listening. Have you had a response from him by the way?
POONAWALLA: I don't think so. I'll double check that--
CHATTERLEY: You'll double check--
POONAWALLA: No, but he's very active. So I'm not as active as he is. Let me check if he's responded.
CHATTERLEY: Great to have you with us sir.
POONAWALLA: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you for all the work you and your team have done.
POONAWALLA: It's pleasure. Thank you.
CHAATERLEY: Adar Poonawalla, CEO of the Serum Institute of India coming up after the break fresh from his meeting with President Biden South Korea's
new President speaking exclusively to CNN, a live report from Seoul, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! Before heading to Japan, President Biden visited South Korea meeting with the country's new leader. And President Yoon Suk
Yeol has spoken exclusively to CNN the first interview he's given since his inauguration just two weeks ago.
Paula Hancocks is live in Seoul and great access, Paula an important relationship clearly to court in the United States. But I guess one of the
key questions here is will that have consequences for another important relationship and that is China, just one of the things we can focus on
here?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Julia. I mean, it's an interesting day to speak to the President Yoon Suk Yeol considering it's
the day that President Biden announced that 13 nations were going to be joining his Indo-Pacific economic framework, including South Korea. Now, I
did ask him about this in the interview, why he felt the need to be part of this group? And he said that it was very important for his country's
national interest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOON SUK YEOL, SOUTH KOREAN PRESIDENT: We don't actively participate in the process of making these rules for economic exchanges and trade with the
countries within the Indo-Pacific region. There will be a great loss to our national interest. So I think it's only natural that we participate in
this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: Now, at the same time, he also pointed out that he was considering joining working groups for some of the Quad meetings as well.
So clearly, he is considering and joining particular groups that are seen as counters to China.
Now bear in mind, South Korea is or China is South Korea's biggest trading partner, and China has staged economic retaliation against South Korea in
the past when they installed the missile defense system for example, there was a crippling economic boycott that followed. So I did ask him whether he
was concerned there could be some kind of backlash from Beijing.
[09:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YEOL: Even if we strengthen our alliances with the United States in security and technology it does not mean that we think our economic
cooperation with China is unimportant to get them. So I do not believe it is reasonable for China to be overly sensitive about this matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: He also said that he believes China should, as one of the leading world powers is part of the rule based international order now, of course,
with that order in such flux around the world at this point.
South Korea's President Yeol was at pains to point out that at least for the next five years during his tenure, his country will be very much firmly
standing next to the United States Julia.
CHATTERLEY: An interesting point to make. And to your very valid point there world disorder I think perhaps there is a bit of phrase for it. Paul
Hancocks in Seoul, thank you so much for that.
OK, that's it for the show from the World Economic Forum here in Davos. If you've missed any of our interviews today, there will be on my Twitter and
Instagram pages shortly you can search for @juliachatterleycnn. In the meantime, "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next. And I'll see
you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
