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First Move with Julia Chatterley
U.S. in Mourning for 19 Children, 2 Teachers Killed; German Chancellor: The World is at a Turning Point; Georgieva: High Food, Energy Prices Fuel European Inflation; China Ramps Up Coal Consumption; Nigeria's Economic Growth Slows as Oil Production Falls; Diess: We're Building up our Factories. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired May 26, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to the World Economic Forum here in Davos, Switzerland. I'm Julia Chatterley. And we
begin with the latest on the heartbreaking tragedy in Texas.
An emotional vigil held for the 19 children and two teachers gunned down in an elementary school in the small town of Uvalde. A father, grieving after
realizing his daughter died, trying to save her classmates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGEL GARZIA, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM AMERIE JO GRAZIA: I just want people to know that she just died trying to save her classmates. She just
wanted to save everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And new details about how events unfolded. This video shows the 18-year-old gunman entering the school on Tuesday. He was on school grounds
for up to an hour before law enforcement shot and killed him. Moments before the attack he apparently sent a series of chilling text messages to
a girl in Germany that he met online an officer confronted him but he still managed to get inside the building, dropping a bag full of ammunition
before entering.
President Biden expected to go to there in the coming days to meet with victims' families. Adrienne Broaddus has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A community grieving after 19 children and two adults were gunned down at Robb Elementary School
Tuesday. This is the scene at a vigil held last night for the victims as the community grapples with this senseless tragedy. The children who
witnessed it trying to come to terms with what they saw. One third grader describes the terror.
CHANCE AGUIRRE, THIRD GRADER, ROBB ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: Everybody was scared. We were all hanging in because we don't know what was really happening. And
we were all hiding behind a stage in the cafeteria when it happened.
BROADDUS (voice over): This as 21 families grieving the loss of loved ones. 10 year old Lexi Rubio had just celebrated making the honor roll earlier
Tuesday. Her parents Felix and Kimberly were so proud and attended the ceremony to celebrate their daughter. They say Lexi was kind sweet and
appreciated life. Felix Rubio is an Uvalde County Sheriff's Deputy. He hopes change will come.
FELIX RUBIO, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM LEXI RUBIO: He's just not a number. Hopefully something gets resolved. That's all we ask. Hopefully something
gets resolved. I'm a cop, deputy here in Uvalde County. This is enough. This is enough. No one else needs to go through this. We never needed to go
through this but we are.
BROADDUS (voice over): Jose Flores Jr., also 10 years old was in the fourth grade and loved baseball and video games. His father tells CNN he was an
amazing big brother who "Was always full of energy". Fourth grader Uziyah Garcia was 10 years old. His uncle described him as a great kid full of
life loved anything with wheels and video games. 10-year-old Xavier Lopez has been identified as one of the victims. His grandmother spoke to ABC
News.
AMELIA SANDOVAL, XAVIER LOPEZ'S GRANDMOTHER, ABC NEWS: It's just so hard. You send your kids to school thinking they're going to make it back home
and they're not.
BROADDUS (voice over): 10-year-old Tess Marie Mata also lost her life. Her older sister Faith wrote on Twitter, my precious Angel you are loved so
deeply. May your wings soar higher than you could ever dream?
Nevaeh Bravo was also identified by her family as one of the victims. Her cousin tells the Washington Post that Nevaeh put a smile on everyone's
face. Amerie Jo Garza was 10 years old. Her father, Angel Garza tells CNN she was trying to call 911 to protect her classmates. Garza is a med aide
who arrived on the scene to later learn his daughter was one of the deceased.
GARZA: Two other students in her classroom that she was just trying to call authorities and I guess he did shot at her.
[09:05:00]
GARZA: How can you look at the girl and shoot her. Oh, my baby, don't shoot my baby.
BROADDUS (voice over): And two teachers were also killed fourth grade teachers, Eva Morales and Irma Garcia. Garcia was a wife and mother of
four, a GoFundMe page set up to raise funds for her funeral expenses, and the needs of the family writes, she sacrificed herself protecting the kids
in her classroom.
She was a hero. She was loved by many and will truly be missed. And Eva's daughter paid tribute to her mother on social media writing, Mom, you are a
hero. I keep telling myself that this isn't real. I just want to hear your voice. I want to thank you, mom, for being such an inspiration to me. I
will forever be so proud to be your daughter.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And here in Davos world leaders speaking at the World Economic Forum included a poignant message from Ukrainian President Volodymyr
Zelenskyy, addressing the tragedy, even as his own nation faces its own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: This is terrible to have victims of shooters in peaceful time. So if you ask me about my opinion about the
production of the war, it happens everywhere. It happens in the world, it happens within seemingly peaceful societies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: It's also a conversation that businesses in the United States simply can't escape from as they prioritize the safety of their people
Tesla's CEO Elon Musk, a major employer now of course, in Texas, not shying away from the subject, tweeting, "Assault rifles should at minimum require
a special permit, where the recipient is extremely well vetted, in my opinion".
Now here in Davos, I spoke to Microsoft's President Brad Smith too and said in light of what feels like a political vacuum in Washington D.C. on this
matter, what is it businesses role to step up? And take a stance? Listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRAD SMITH, PRESIDENT, MICROSOFT: Well, we look at this and the first thing we do is we ask ourselves every day, where is it appropriate to use the
company's voice to speak out and where not? You know, we all as leaders have views.
But we don't think it's appropriate to use the company's name just to voice our own views. So we say we look at three things. There's something that
affects the way our customers use technology, security, privacy, does it affect our employees, you know, at work at home? And third, does it affect
our broader business and the needs of our shareholders?
We look at something like gun control and we've had a hard time saying, well, it doesn't quite fall into those categories. We do look at it and say
there are absolutely things that we can do. We've been at the forefront of really what's a global effort, championed by Jacinda Ardern, the Prime
Minister of New Zealand, you know, she advanced, we advanced with her a few years ago, the Christchurch call.
So when these incidents happen, we at least activate a response to make sure that they're not spreading across the internet and inspiring others.
Is that enough? I think that's the question you're asking me. It's a question we ask ourselves. I'm sure it's a question we'll continue to ask
ourselves. That's also a way of saying; I don't have an answer today.
CHATTERLEY: Is it a business decision? Is it a moral decision that the stance that you take here, because you raise a great point about you raised
a great point earlier, actually, about protecting your people? If you had people that said, you know what, I'm working for Microsoft in a state and I
don't feel safe. Would you go OK, that's fine.
We'll allow you to shift simply because of the level of violence for whatever reason, for example, is that something that you would think about,
even if you, as you said, you work out what your stance is, but for whatever reason?
SMITH: There are some issues where it's easier to do that than others. I mean, you know, for example, you know, we've been quick to say even in
recent weeks, that if we have an employee who lives in the state of the United States, that it turns out in the wake of a Supreme Court decision is
not able to get an abortion, our health benefits will may enable that person to travel.
But that's not the same thing as dealing with the fabric of their community. And you know it is a concern we hear about it from our
employees. I think everyone wants to live in a safer country, a safer community a safer world.
Yes, I don't know that it's - there's a vacuum of leadership in the United States. I think there's a stalemate of views around guns and that makes it
very hard.
[09:10:00]
CHATTERLEY: I would argue that the majority of American citizens who vote for those politicians want more control.
SMITH: This is true; perhaps there is a democratic process that is in place. And then you have this question. I think if you're a business and
you speak out on everything, you're not likely to be effective. If you speak out on too little, you may find that there are days when you regret
your silence, and that's the challenge that we struggle with. Everybody does.
CHATTERLEY: Can I extract a promise that you're talking about it?
SMITH: We're always talking about the heart issues of the day absolutely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: The terrible events in Texas and how to respond, just one of the tragedies and crises weighing on the world today, German Chancellor
Olaf Scholz delivered the closing address at Davos earlier today. And he chose to focus on surprisingly on Russia's aggression in Ukraine, saying
it's a dire threat to the post World War II global order, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: The world is indeed a turning point. And it is not only the state of Ukraine that is at stake it is the system of
international cooperation that was designed in the aftermath of two devastating World Wars, taking effect to the fall of never again, that is
at stake.
A system that subject power to the law, that bans the use of force as an instrument of politics, and that has in the past decades guaranteed us
freedom, security and prosperity. Our goal is therefore crystal clear. We cannot allow Putin to win his war. And I firmly believe that he will not
win it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Scholz promising that Germany will completely phase out imports of Russian oil by the end of the year. And he says his country is working
to "Flat out end its reliance on Russian gas". Richard Quest joins us now.
Richard, for me this - was about choices and consequences, choices in the short term having massive long term consequences. The Economy Minister of
Germany said to me, look, we went to the Americans and we said, look, we want to phase out oil and they said we're going to phase oil but you can't
phase out oil and gas yet because the world can't cope with this ramp up in prices beyond today in the short term choices, consequences.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Right. But at the end of the day, what's the end? What's the option because yes, people are starting
to whisper here? You know, what, sue for peace? What's the answer? What would Russia take? What would you Ukraine accept?
CHATTERLEY: Nothing right now.
QUEST: Well, at the moment right now, yes. But the real politic of is it? You know, would they accept territory? And what does total victory for
Zelenskyy look like anyway? Does it include the tech the getting back of Crimea, taken in 2014?
CHATTERLEY: This is a terrible conversation that we're having. But it's a realistic conversation, because you have to pick your war. I sat on a panel
831 million people going hungry tonight. We have a war in Ukraine, we have conflicts being fought around the world, and that's creating a food
shortage. This is exacerbating it. At what point is every nation around the world when their people are turning around to them saying I can't afford
it.
QUEST: 1938.
CHATTERLEY: --my home? I cannot afford to feed my family.
QUEST: 1939.
CHATTERLEY: We have to stop the war. When did we get there?
QUEST: 1938, 1939, 1950s and 1960s at what point? Look, I am not suggesting we have to keep prosecuting this war to the end. But the line again and
again, the price of a dictator only ever gets higher. That's what they keep saying.
Viktor Orban in Hungary, who continually is moving trying to move the European Union away from this hardline position.
CHATTERLEY: And Turkey and NATO we can throw in that one as well.
QUEST: That's slightly different. But yes, yes.
CHATTERLEY: No, but its players that are involved in this trying to extract.
QUEST: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Profit or benefits - crisis?
QUEST: So ask yourself this simple question, simple question.
CHATTERLEY: I ask the questions here, but I'll allow it.
QUEST: It was a rhetorical question.
CHATTERLEY: OK, fine.
QUEST: Would you accept the loss of the Donbas and Luhansk region to Russia as the price of peace?
CHATTERLEY: Who are you asking me?
QUEST: I'm asking you to knit esoteric sense.
CHATTERLEY: I don't think that we can ask that question. And you know what, and we're making this very much about and Europe and we should bring in the
fact that there's a lack of Chinese here and they're massive player in this as well.
QUEST: The Chinese have chosen to disengage.
CHATTERLEY: Wait a second while they're on the fence for now, but they also face a lot of these challenges. Remember, they're shut down right now? And
actually, that's another point.
QUEST: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Right now, they're not sucking up all the food resources for a great example that they will when they start to reopen and that will
exacerbate this crisis. Why now spending is cushioning us from recession at this moment. What happens when recession kicks in and the economic
pressures that countries are already facing come in the back end of this year, and suddenly everyone's looking at everybody else?
Somehow we have to reach a deal here I agree with you but you know for me for the first time since the Second World War and I agree with the IMF
Chief on this.
[09:15:00]
CHATTERLEY: The ethics, the morals, the economics of policy choices for policymakers has never been more poignant and for business, as always, they
have to carry on regardless.
QUEST: No, I don't agree. I don't agree.
CHATTERLEY: Shocking.
QUEST: I think that we are because as you've interviewed the same people or people and business leaders tell us this is the most difficult time that
we've ever faced, because of the confluence of global crises, which are in danger of overwhelming.
CHATTERLEY: I think they still think COVID was a bigger deal. I don't think broader business understand that how - this moment is geopolitically maybe
--.
QUEST: Have you been in the sun?
CHATTERLEY: Very much so.
No, there is a reality here about business that is absolutely scared witless over the longer term implications of this war lasting because as
China reopens, so oil prices go back up again as their consumption gets added to global demand.
CHATTERLEY: I agree with that.
QUEST: And as that goes on, that trickles around the rest of the world, and food inflation in the developed economies becomes a crisis and food and--
CHATTERLEY: It's already a crisis; it's been a crisis for years. How many times have I been told to shut up and move on?
QUEST: I don't know--
CHATTERLEY: Three times.
QUEST: I prefer not to have anything in my head, which makes it much easier.
CHATTERLEY: I know, just keep going.
QUEST: Selling on blindly.
CHATTERLEY: Richard.
QUEST: By the way, --spring answer - on Quest Means Business. Oh, come on. You just give him the way.
CHATTERLEY: You really said that - need argue. Richard, go away. I've got to move on. Richard Quest, sir, thank you. OK, tough choices and
consequences. Straight ahead, the IMS warning on global growth looming large that this year's Davos, my interview with the IMF Managing Director
and her thoughts on the risk of recession and what her message is to President Putin next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. As Richard and I were just discussing fears that the war in Ukraine will continue to weigh on global growth have dominated
the discussions here at Davos this week.
IMF Chief Kristalina Georgieva set the tone when she said the global economy faces its biggest test since World War Two. Yet for all the
uncertainty the managing director does not yet see an imminent threat of recession. Just take a listen.
[09:20:00]
KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: Well, let me first say that we are in a space that we have never been before a
crisis upon a crisis within two years. Just as we were recovering from the COVID induced economic crisis, we were hit by a war in Europe, sanctions
and their consequences.
So look at what we have done from October until now, twice downgraded our projections for global growth. And when we look into the last downgrade and
what happened, since I wouldn't put it out of question that there may be a further downgrade.
Why? Because of tightening of financial conditions, because of dollar appreciation, it hits many countries a lot. And because of the slowdown in
China, that is affecting supply chains quite dramatically.
What we are mostly concerned is we now stepping into a period of time of economic fragmentation? Are we going to see the consequences of this period
to be long lasting, with trading bloc's forming possibly choice of reserve currencies that is more diversified?
And would that mean that, yes, the crisis is not so dramatic. I agree from 3.6, which is our projection down to minus territory a long way to go very
unlikely we will have a global recession, there will be recession, perhaps in a handful of countries.
But are we going to be poorer in the future as a result of the geo- economics of today?
CHATTERLEY: You're answering the question, and you're posing at the same time. And we're seeing that economic fragmentation already the broken
supply chains, the re-shoring.
But also, to your point, the geopolitical fragmentation, too, does it become increasingly impossible to work together on all the big issues, food
security, the climate crisis, we're all poor for that too. And I still don't think we understand connecting the dots, the biggest consequences of
that.
GEORGIEVA: We ought to not go the way of fragmentation because none of the big challenges we face climate change, dealing with debt levels in low
income countries, preventing a food crisis, which is already, by the way, happening, from exploding to a point that 10s of millions of people are
severely affected.
We need to work together for that. And what we are arguing is that we can apply economic logic out of this to shocks, which is you cannot only define
economic efficiency on the basis of cost; you have to factor in security of supply.
But don't take it from there to fragmentation and blocks. Because if we go that far, the consequences would be bad for poor people in poor countries,
but also for all of us, because our standard of living will be affected.
CHATTERLEY: Can we talk about Europe specifically, because we can see they're battling with unity over sanctions, the consequences of detaching
themselves, from their reliance on Russian energy in particular. Is that least as far as the West is concerned, perhaps the most vulnerable to
recession risks?
GEORGIEVA: Well, let's look at who is most impacted, those that have not quite yet recovered from the previous crisis. Unfortunately, Europe is not
in this category, but also those that are most impacted from the war, from Russia's aggression towards Ukraine and its consequences.
Europe falls in this category through the transmission line of high energy prices, high food prices; they are fueling inflation in Europe. And that
means that Europe has to tighten, maybe not as much as the United States unlikely as much as the United States, but still tighten financial
conditions.
What does it mean? It is a setback for the recovery, because that would mean that investment based on borrowing is going to be affected servicing
prior that might be affected, although in some cases, they may be long term borrowing in low interest rates environment, so there may be some windfalls
for some companies.
But overall, Europe is experiencing this. On top of it, there are two shocks that are very much your specific one, refugees. And the second one
is the psychological shock of yet another war on European territory.
[09:25:00]
GEORGIEVA: And as the European, I can say, that is truly very dramatic. For the people in Europe, we had world wars. But the main territory where the
action was, was Europe and the wounds from this, we remember.
CHATTERLEY: We'll talk about that in a second. Are you surprised, actually, in light of what you say that consumption spending has held up so well, in
light of what's an increasing cost of living crisis and your point about the confidence knock at what we're seeing?
GEORGIEVA: Well, you know, we are not that surprised. Because, remember, when we were in lockdowns, we would bike manufacturing goods, but services
would suffer.
Now that, as you know, thank you, for those who came with vaccines, now that we do not have these restrictions. What do we do? We can travel, we
get out there, we go to the movies. And so very, we expected to see that boom.
CHATTERLEY: We are still in it.
GEORGIEVA: We are in it. But if you look at the data, I mean, we cut our projections for European growth by for advanced Euro by 1.1 percent for
emerging Europe by 1.5 percent.
So there is a bit more heaviness of the impact of the war. Here, I hope it is not going to translate into loss of confidence. But when we look at the
potential risks, what is the biggest risk, biggest risks is what may happen, either tightening of sanctions, that would boost a price of energy
in Europe even further, or Europe deciding to be a - of economic recovery.
You know if they stopped gas to more countries that would be especially if they stopped a gas to Germany that can be quite devastating. Just to let
you know that the two countries already lost their gas from Russia, Bulgaria, my own country and Poland.
CHATTERLEY: Final question because I know it's personal for you too, you have family in Ukraine. If you could directly appeal to Vladimir Putin,
what would you say to him at this point, if it's even just about the food situation? Never mind the broader wall, what would you say?
GEORGIEVA: Stop the war. Pull out. Allow peace to return for the sake of everyone everywhere, but especially for the sake of people who find
themselves as if they are in a Second World War movie except it is their reality, with bombs falling and lice being closed.
CHATTERLEY: Coming up after the break emergency talks in China on the galvanizing the economy post COVID, live report from Beijing coming up
next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:30:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. A call to action from leaders of the world's second largest economy amid stringent COVID lockdowns more than 100,000
officials from various levels of government attended a virtual emergency meeting and heard calls for fresh efforts to stabilize the economy.
At least 21 cities in China are still under full or partial lockdown impacting 140 million people. Selina Wang joins us now, Selina, great to
have you with us. This goes back to my point at the top of the show choices and consequences and there are no easy choices here, particularly if
they're going to continue with zero COVID policy. What did they come up with to support growth in the meantime?
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia, I mean, despite the crushing social and economic costs that we've been talking about nearly every day,
no sign of letting up Xi Jinping only doubling down on these punishing zero COVID policies.
Authorities in more recent weeks, they've rolled out unveil some of the support measures that include some tax refunds, increasing support for the
small businesses extending more loans to small and medium sized business.
But by and large analysts say that this is not nearly enough to offset the economic damage. And what we heard from the premier today, this was the
grimmest morning yet that we've heard about the state of China's COVID hit economy.
There was an emergency cabinet meeting of 100,000, 100,000 officials across China in attendance over teleconference.
And China's Premier Li Keqiang said that the economic impact of COVID this March and April is even worse than in 2020 during the initial COVID-19
outbreak in China.
That's when China's economy came to a near standstill, not mincing his words here. This just show how big of an impact it is in leadership is
realizing that. In fact, we have seen these absolutely shocking drops in economic activity with sharp shrinks in factory output in consumer
activity, consumer retail sales because of the zero COVID lockdown still more than 100 million people across China under some form of lockdown.
And in recent weeks we have heard China's Premier Li Keqiang put out these starker warnings just a few weeks ago calling the economic situation
"complex and grave".
And of a special concern is Beijing is these rough unemployment numbers. The rate is now at the highest level since 2020. And of course, if you see
mass unemployment in China, that is a risk factor to the Chinese Communist Party.
And we are at a very sensitive moment now we're just months away from the party congress in the fall. This is when Xi Jinping is expected to step
into an unprecedented third term but again, those support measures not nearly enough.
And when we see China the world's second largest economy the world's factory when it suffers the whole world does, China's lock downs having
knock on effects worsening global supply chain with increasing inflationary pressures and of course, dragging down global growth. Julia?
CHATTERLEY: Selina Wang, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for that. I'm still trying to get over the idea of 100,000 people on an
internet call trying to come up with this so much of the internet capacity, but that never mind anything else, only in China big challenges.
Selina Wang, thank you. Now while Chinese officials are trying to support economic growth as we discussed, it is coming at huge consequences for the
environment to two years ago.
China promised to be carbon neutral by 2060. But it's now using and producing more coal as other cost of energy saw in a bid to solve a power
crisis, which triggered blackouts from millions and forced factories to cut production. China monitor record amount of fossil fuel last year
undermining its plan to curb emissions.
[09:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: At least in the short term. China's presence in Davos has been limited as COVID concerns restrict travel. The highest ranking official
here is the climate change, Special Envoy, who was on stage with his U.S. counterpart, John Kerry. And I spoke to the former Secretary of State on a
rainy Tuesday after that panel.
JOHN KERRY, U.S. CLIMATE ENVOY: China is moving. China has agreed to put out this year an ambitious national action plan on methane. China is
already moving, to try to switch and move away from some of its goal, reduce the intensity, they've made some steps. I was very candid today.
And I said, I think we need to get more not just from China, but more in our country.
CHATTERLEY: Of course. But what was the response is when you said more, what was the response?
KERRY: But more in other country, we have to move faster. He understands, but he wants to set work through how we're going to do this. How do we both
do it? As he you know, he said, actions speak louder than words.
And what we need to do is take the actions and begin to move in the right direction.
CHATTERLEY: Did you say get your own house in order first, before you talk to us?
KERRY: No, we have not. We've had a lot of conversations; our house is moving very aggressively on this issue. We have huge 75 percent of the new
electricity that has come online in the United States in the last few years, has all come from green.
It's renewables that I produced it. So we're taking huge actions. You can ask plenty of we have 150 CEOs have joined efforts sustainably - in the
sustainable markets initiative.
So I think extraordinarily exciting things are happening, even as it is difficult. But I think you know, it promises that we can get there if we
make the right decision.
CHATTERLEY: I just think at the backdrop of you too, on the panel. And we've got President Biden, of course on his Asia trip and talking to the
co-ordinations, that sort of veiled message in that statement was, you know, just be careful what you're eying China, I think.
Is it credible that the United States and China can work on this issue? Can the need to tackle climate change or does the need to tackle climate change
transcend? What is better, I think, geopolitical challenges at this moment between the two nations?
KERRY: Obviously, there are differences in - there are differences. Yes. But President Xi and President Biden have both said this is not a bilateral
issue. This is a multilateral, universal, and existential issue. And it does no country any good.
It doesn't do the world any good to say I'm not going to work with them, or I'm not going to work with them, we have to work together for the simple
reason. That is the only way we win this battle.
And China is ready to understand that I hope as anybody else in the world, thus far, we've been working together. And you know, Xi - and I have known
each other for 25 years or more. We've worked together effectively; we've been able to make things happen. And we're going to continue to fight to do
that.
CHATTERLEY: How's the conversation here? Is that a sort of new world order a reframing of that world order, and it involves China and Russia that
looks differently and challenges the West?
I think we know it's about politics, but it's also about other things. What does that reshaping of the world order ultimately mean for the planet given
everything that you just said?
KERRY: Well, I don't think it is a reshaping at this point; it may be something of a challenge in some places. But the vast, vast majority of
nations on this planet, believe in rule of law, want the United Nations Security Council to work; they want human rights and universal rights to be
protected.
And the fact is that that's what we're standing up for. That's what President Biden is standing up for. And we're going to continue to do that.
So I think that it's not a --I don't think, you know, NATO has come together.
Europe has come together with the United States with all these other countries. People do not want to go back to the last century, when nations
would, by use of force change international boundaries and kill people, children, women in cold blood that has to stop and that is what is a
difference here. But it's a difference worth fighting for.
CHATTERLEY: Do they hold together or the nations that you just mentioned in light of food crisis, cost of living crisis? It's going to accentuate
fractures, challenges between nations.
KERRY: That's part of governing and that's part of life.
CHATTERLEY: It is.
KERRY: OK.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
KERRY: Things aren't necessarily easy. Governing is hard. Life can be hard. But the fact is that, you know, I believe that we're trying to move in the
right direction. I think we can move in that direction. I think I've described it. The world of a new clean economy will create millions of jobs
up and down the ladder.
[09:40:00]
KERRY: You have plumbers and electricians, and you'll have construction workers and heavy equipment operators and architects and designers and
engineers, and everyone else involved in this transition.
And it will build a cleaner, better world safer world healthier world. No question about that. I mean, we lose 15 million people a year or die,
because of air quality. What is that from? That's from greenhouse gas emissions, that's what the pollution is.
So we deal with that pollution, just as we did years ago, with the Clean Air Act. We will begin to make the difference we need to do.
CHATTERLEY: And we're finally connecting the dots on food security and climate change and the sort of interconnection between them.
KERRY: We're - nobody say we can't do things simultaneously. OK?
CHATTERLEY: Is that really we could do it better.
KERRY: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Final question, can you promise me a comprehensive - Bill and this administration, please?
KERRY: I wish I had the power to create that promise. But I have confidence that members of Congress are still fixated on it. They're serious about it.
People want to get something can they come together? That's up to them, but I still believe there's chance of getting something.
CHATTERLEY: Planets before politics, please.
KERRY: Well said.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you, sir.
KERRY: Thank you very much.
CHATTERLEY: Good to talk to you.
KERRY: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you, again to the U.S. Climate Envoy John Kerry particularly made Tuesday's torrential rain and of course before the
tragedy that took place later in the week in Texas.
Now listen to this in light of that conversation, Secretary of State Antony Blinken expected to outline the contours of the Biden Administration's
approach to China in a speech next hour.
The senior administration officials said there are three pillars to the approach to invest to align and to compete. The official said Blinken will
make it clear that the U.S. is not looking to sever China's economy from the U.S. economy or the global economy. That's a shift in my mind.
An important point in time - as Europe desperately seeks to fill the hole left by Russian energy. Africa's largest oil producer Nigeria is struggling
to keep up with production. What's the game plan, the country's finance minister joins us next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. Nigeria's economy is fast growing in recent years now seeing progress challenged by the inflationary fallout from the war in
Ukraine. Nigeria may be Africa's biggest oil producer, and therefore benefiting from higher oil prices.
But it's also a large importer of refined petroleum products, which complicates the picture. - Nigeria also relied heavily on Russia for its
wheat and fertilizer imports, those supplies, of course, being disrupted amid sanctions enacted on Russia by the West, lots of challenges, lots of
opportunity.
I'm pleased to say we're joined by Zainab Ahmed; she's Nigeria's Minister of Finance Budget and National Planning, Minister, fantastic to have you on
the show, much to discuss, but let's talk about energy.
As I mentioned, it's sort of good on the one hand, or it could be if you can monopolize on it, it's tough on the other. What's the net effect on the
budget? And how do you turn that around?
ZAINAB AHMED, NIGERIAN FINANCE MINISTER: Well, the net effect for us is that we're not realizing the increased revenues that we had hoped because
we have to use the revenues to buy refined petroleum products.
And as the prices go up in the international market, we are paying more for PMS. It also meant that our fiscal deficit has expanded, because we had
earlier on decided that will stop the removal of oil subsidy for the Ukraine war compounded that situation for us.
But we were able to manage physically, by being able to plan on how to address the deficit because it is for a short to medium term for us.
CHATTERLEY: Fingers crossed.
AHMED: Fingers crossed. Yes.
CHATTERLEY: There is one opportunity perhaps and I think the European Union is talking about it. Russia is also talking about it, and that's untapped
LNG resources, would you consider?
And obviously, that there are technical challenges, there's no more challenges perhaps for Nigeria of supplying Russia of supplying the EU? How
would you consider the options here?
AHMED: So already, the national oil company has been approached by some potential buyers of the Nigerian - of natural gas.
CHATTERLEY: Including Russia?
AHMED: Not yet included in Russia. But so the analogy company is already expanding, it has been expanding its operations, there is a train seven
that has been worked on, there is an opportunity to export more gas from the country.
And it means more revenues coming into the country. There's also an opportunity for us to increase the consumption of gas domestically, helping
us to exit the use of diesel and cleaner energy for us.
CHATTERLEY: How long does that take?
AHMED: There is a gas pipeline under construction; it should be completed in the next 12 months. It's from the gas - in the south side to the middle
of the country, it means that the gas available to industries near where they're operated.
Right now gas is trucked, I guess, across the country, which is expensive and inefficient. So with the gas pipeline that has been built, it will
bring us nearer to industries.
CHATTERLEY: I want to say it's a very important issue. But there are many of them. And I'm very keen to talk about other parts of your economy too,
because it can be hugely exciting parts of the economy as you continue to diversify.
But before that food prices, inflation in general, but food prices in particular and important for your farmers to fertilizer and your inputs of
fertilizer challenged by broader tensions with Russia over what can be traded on and what can't.
What are the alternatives, particularly as prices rise of fertilizer when you have to import less anyway, simply due to cost? It has knock on
consequences for what you can produce.
AHMED: Well, one of the implications of the Ukraine or Russia war is the high prices of fertilizer. But we produce fertilizer in Nigeria. We started
exporting fertilizer, but we are facing the high costs of the inputs for the production of the fertilizer, which has been coming from Morocco and
from Russia.
We've had to find other sources for potash but at a much higher costs. And it means that fertilizer prices are going up as a result. So government is
looking at and working with the industry on how to provide cushion to the industry and eventually to be passed on to the farmers.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, there's so many challenges that you're dealing with. To go back to my earlier point about some of the areas in your
economy that do continue to accelerate healthcare, digitization technology there's I could name many of them. There are -
AHMED: The financial services.
CHATTERLEY: Financials, great one, thank you. How do you continue to support foster innovation when you have so many other demands both on your
time and on your financial resources as well?
AHMED: The practice we actually have a very resilient economy. The Nigerian economy is truly diversified. Oil and gas sector contributes only 7 percent
to the Nigerian GDP. And we have a private sector that is vibrant and they continue to invest. So all government is doing is providing the policies
and the enabling environmental support.
[09:50:00]
AHMED: So the private sector drives their businesses. And we are seeing the results in increased contribution of the ICT sector and services as well as
the financial industry, to the economy.
CHATTERLEY: Rapidly the managers you can you can manage this, the messages you can manage this.
AHMED: We're doing well, so far, growth projections have consistently outperformed the World Bank and the IMF, and we're keeping the face.
CHATTERLEY: It's ladies in control. And you look beautiful by the way; it's lovely to see a color. Thank you for bringing some color to Davos.
AHMED: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Minister, thank you so much for your time.
AHMED: Thank you very much for having me.
CHATTERLEY: Zainab Ahmed, Nigeria's Finance Minister there. OK, still to come. Volkswagen has already sold out of electric cars in several key
markets. I spoke to its CEO about the company's next big target. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. Volkswagen Group continuing to rev up its electric ambitions the German car giant launching at least one new electric
car every year up until 2026 and has intentions to grow in the United States selling its cars at 1000 independent dealerships across the country.
Volkswagen's U.S. footprint has grown and serviced the competition. I spoke to Herbert Diess, CEO of Volkswagen about the company's expansion and
tackling Tesla, listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: You've said that you can take Tesla by 2025 in 2025 in terms of global sales. Yes, you did say that.
HERBERT DIESS, CEO, VOLKSWAGEN: I said we really intended we will fight for market leadership. No, no, no, no. We had this plan when we started our EV
initiative so probably five years back.
So we said no, we are volume manufacturer. We want to be we have a high market share. Now we have 20 percent in Europe, 20 percent in China, we are
growing in the states from a low basis but they are growing and we're probably committed.
CHATTERLEY: This more of - back fair again.
DIESS: We are committed, we're also committed to grow with EVs to, we will revive an American brand. So I'm really excited about America and the
reception of our product in America is really good. So we are motivated.
And we are building factories now we have now two entirely converted plants in China. We have now restarting production which is our second location in
Germany. Hannover will follow swift with the new EV paths.
So we're building up the capacities. If we make the accounts, it can be very tight coming 25. But five years ago, we said we want to become market
leader in 25. This is the target we have. Tesla is performing better than we thought.
CHATTERLEY: That's a moving target. And you have to steal their customers--
DIESS: No, not at all, not at all. I think all customers sooner or later will change into EVs. We are gaining a lot new customers. Now many new
customers who haven't bought a Porsche or an Audi or Volkswagen are buying because of its electric.
[09:55:00]
DIESS: So it will be a new mixture. Currently we have high waiting times for our EVs and I bought - Tesla probably as well.
CHATTERLEY: You can't get one this year, isn't that true? You can't get one now, 2023?
DIESS: Yes, in some markets we're already selling into 23.
CHATTERLEY: So the message is Elon becoming to get you.
DIESS: Becoming, yes, we'll see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And we'll have more from my conversation with Herbert Diess in tomorrow's show. For now though, that's it from the World Economic Forum
here in Davos. I make that three costume changes, three dramatic weather changes today. So I do bring it all for you. If you've missed any of our
interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages search for @juliachatterleycnn. As always, we'll see you very soon and "Connect the
World" with Becky Anderson is up next. So stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
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