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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Travel Industry's Problems Reflect the Global Economy; Israeli Coalition Government falls Apart; El-Erian: The U.S. Fed right now is too political; Zelenskyy: African Countries Taken Hostage by War; Campaigner for Widow's Rights to Address U.S. Congress; Hong Kong's Iconic Floating Restaurant Sinks. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired June 21, 2022 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNNI HOST: I'm Julia Chatterley in New York. Welcome as always to "First Move". Great to have you with us on this Tuesday the first

day of summer, in fact in the northern hemisphere and investors, certainly hoping for a bit of solace on this summer solstice.

The market moved feeling sunny with the Wall Street set to begin this shortened trading week with solid gains retracing a chunk of last week 6's

percent drop for the S&P 500 its worst performance in fact, since early on in the pandemic.

Europe as you can see there also catching some rays too, a positive picture for now. But of course, the summer months won't be smooth surfing with the

risks of fresh waves of bad news. W stands for worsening inflation. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warning prices will remain unacceptably

high through the rest of the year.

Fed Chair Jay Powell of course set to address prices tomorrow during congressional testimony. A, is for anemic growth Goldman Sachs upping the

odds for a U.S. recession over the next year to 30 percent. Elon Musk warning that the economic battery is low too saying a near term recession

is more likely than not, we'll be discussing that.

The volatile crypto and other risky assets Bitcoin high up for a second day but still down more than 60 percent from the highs. The NASDAQ the tech

heavy sector filled with growth stocks that face headwinds as rate rises still down 30 percent for the year and EI of course for earnings.

Profit season begins next month with some believing estimates remain too high given all the economic challenges they face. Just getting to the beach

this summer will be no picnic either with petrol at record highs and possibility and the possibility of waves of travel disruption ahead and

that is where we begin today's show.

Into a microcosm of the global economy's biggest challenges labor shortages, rising fuel prices, inflation and widespread dissatisfaction

adding to the mix is strong post COVID demand for travel. Well, the aviation industry is facing it all.

Richard Quest is that the global gathering of key players at the IATA Conference in Qatar and he joins us now. Richard, always fantastic to have

you on the show! There's a British saying for this and it's when it rains, it pours and the airline industry in particular at the heart of all of

these challenges.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes, indeed. There'll be little rain here in Qatar; I couldn't help the hearing you're talking about the start

of summer. Let me just put that in perspective, the temperature outside the church there is ready for this 44 degrees Celsius, good 111 Fahrenheit, I

won't be going from morning run, when afternoon run or anything like that.

The events that have taken place that have pulled the airline industry into such crisis. They didn't happen by accident, even though the industry tried

to rebuild its resilience and its systems and its people, the infrastructure in terms of customs, in terms of security check in airports,

they just weren't able to cope, perhaps not surprising, bearing in mind not to them have been shut down for two years, and the ramp up has been so


But if you are an airline, you can only beat your chest and whine and moan about it so long. You have to actually do something bearing in mind the

summer season is underway. And that's why Ben Smith of Air France KLM was quite clear. It's got to take action, just to get through it.


BENJAMIN SMITH, CEO, AIR FINANCE ALM: We put an enormous amount of effort to be ready for this summer. We sold a lot of tickets. We were off to a

very good start. We still think we'll have a good summer. But you know customers will have an experience that really isn't up to the level that we

would have expected.

QUEST: The sort of issues we're talking about will be very difficult to solve to know and August.

SMITH: Well, we've done a few things. One, we've tried to spread out our departures. So for instance, in Paris, we have two big hubs structures, one

at 10 in the morning, one at 1 pm. And we've moved as many flights as we can to the afternoon. It costs us money.

And then the minimum connection times at both of our hubs, we've expanded them, which here again, it costs us money as well, but at least it takes

pressure off people connecting. It takes stress away and takes some stress off our employees as well. We don't have the same number of flights all

going at the same time.


QUEST: Lufthansa's Carsten Spohr says it's not going to get much better. Pretty much there's unanimity on that point. What they can't agree on and

what they're really at loggerheads with governments about is whose fault it is Julia?

The airlines say they were pretty much ready the airport says no, you weren't. The government says a plague on both.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, everyone blames everybody else and customers suffer in the interim. What about Asia? What about representation from the Asia region in

particular, I remember speaking to the Grab CEO, and he was saying look in terms of COVID recovery and reopening around six months behind the West

particularly for the United States and Europe. This quarter critical what are they saying about all the challenges in addition to COVID?


QUEST: Well, first of all there can no global aviation industry until China is fully back on stream.


QUEST: And nobody really expect it this year. People are talking about early mid-2023. And then you've got Japan, South Korea, you've got

Singapore, which is opening up slowly but surely, and making great strides. What's interesting is what we call over flight?

The ability to fly over Russia, to get from Europe to Asia and as long as European carriers are still stymied by sanctions or rules, they have two or

three hours longer to go. They've got to go around a 10 hour flight now takes 13 or 14 hours. But the Chinese carriers, when they come back on

stream, they are still allowed to fly over Russia.

This is a major or will be a major competitive advantage for the Chinese carriers but of course, to adapt to it to take advantage of it. They have

to start flying again. We don't expect to see China fully onboard until the middle of next year.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, that's the big challenge. Rich as you know, I love talking to you about this subject because you permanently smile. You're so

enthusiastic no matter what's going on. It's so it's great to watch you in action. We look forward to "Quest means Business" and hearing more of those

interviews. Great to have you with us thank you!

QUEST: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Richard Quest there. Now the travel disruption is not limited to the skies. UK commuters struggled to get to work this morning, as

widespread rail and tube strike hit the network. The walkout over pay and job cuts is set to be the country's biggest rail strike in three decades.

And Scott McLean joins us now. Scott great to have you with us as well on this very much titled the same issues, labor shortages, challenges over pay

a high inflationary environment and workers recognizing that they're going to be shortchanged, if they don't get significant pay rises? Can this be

resolved? And what's the chaos going to be like this week?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, I can show you what the chaos is like right now. And well, it seems quite calm. But obviously, for

businesses, you need to have their employees that work. It's much more chaotic.

This is London Bridge station. Obviously, on any given day, even at two o'clock in the afternoon, as it is right now these turnstiles it would be a

steady stream. Now instead, the scene is like this, where you have these stairs and the escalators that are up to the platforms that are completely

out of service because the platforms aren't actually in use.

The rail system says that only about 20 percent of all trains across England, Scotland and Wales are actually even running today at all. And the

reason that there's any trains running at all is because in this country, workers don't actually have to be part of the Union for some obviously have

still chosen to show up for work.

We've been speaking to people here, most of them left as early as they could to try to figure out a train to get to where they need to go. A lot

of them ended up here. But then because this is also affecting the London Underground in a city where most people don't have a car, they are

struggling to get to the other places they need to go. What I found really interesting, Julia is that most people it seems have some level of sympathy

for these striking workers. But the question is, how long will it last, listen?


UNIDENTIFEID MALE: --everybody has their own issues with speed, but you know it's not going to help if nobody can't work you know so because they

are saying everything is increasing us just have to go to work as well because if you don't work, you don't get paid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very inconsiderate, our support - action and stuff like that. But it's like come at the cost of everyday people.

MCLEAN (on camera): Do you think that you'll make it at all today?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope so. I have patient waiting, I can't see anyone.


MCLEAN: So that person there is a medical professional who works in South London and other people we met are people who simply cannot work from home,

contractors, teachers, things like that people who need to for work be in a specific place.

The rail strike is going to be taking place today, again on Thursday and then again on Saturday. The Union though has hinted that this could take

much, much longer. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, he is weighed in on this today. He called it wrong and unnecessary.

He says that, well, the government bailed out the rail industry made sure that no workers lost their job during the pandemic. And so he doesn't think

that this is a good way to be repaying what he believes is that kind of government generosity.

He also says that people are coming back to the rail network. You'll notice writing the two but rush hour it's still very packed, but it's still not

pre-COVID levels. And so the government's position is that look, things need to change. The status quo is not going to work for the long term.

The Union sees things much differently. They say look, they've had a pay freeze for the last two years through no fault of their own. Now they just

at least want their wages to keep up with the inflation rate. The problem as we've talked about ad nauseam Julia is that inflation in this country is

7 percent.


MCLEAN: It's forecast to get even worse before it gets better and so whether the government or whether the rail companies, I should say are

willing to come anywhere close to that seems unlikely considering that the government is putting their fingers on the scale saying, look, it's not a

good idea to come up to that level, because that may make inflation even worse.

And Julia, one other thing to mention, and that's that it may not just be real workers, there are other public sector professionals, teachers, public

defenders, things like that, that are also set to potentially go on strike. In fact, just this past weekend, the Head of the U.K.'s largest union told

one of my colleagues that she's not ruling out the possibility of a general strike this summer.

CHATTERLEY: I think this is perhaps just the beginning. And to your point, I've seen some forecasts of 11 percent inflation this year and as fast as

central banks are trying to bring that down if you keep wages in line with inflation and give her 11 percent pay rise. That's entrenched.

Scott, great to have you with us, thank you for that! We'll see what happens later this week.

Now, after his "Super Bad Feeling", Elon Musk is voicing his concerns about the U.S. economy once again, this time on the chances of recession. Clare

Sebastian joins us now with all the details. He said a recession is inevitable at some point, and I agree with him, we live in boom bust

cycles. The question is whether or not it happens sooner rather than later. What were his thoughts on that?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia the "Super bad feeling" as he put it a few weeks ago has now turned into a sort of more concrete more

likely than not in the near term. Not that concrete though, because we don't know what he means by the near term, but he is, you know, a man of

considerable economic clout and employer of almost 100,000 people at Tesla obviously undeniable influencer status when it comes to market and he is

joining a chorus of other voices among economists and officials who are seeing rising odds.

Just this week "The Wall Street" Journal surveyed economists who put the probability of recession in the next 12 months at 44 percent, up from 18

percent, in January, and just this week, we get a report from Goldman Sachs saying that they expect a recession in the next 12 months is a 30 percent

likelihood that's up from 15 percent in their previous forecast.

The reason why they say is because of the Federal Reserve now aggressively tightening, they say that's tightening financial conditions and putting an

even bigger drag on economic growth. So a lot of people are seeing rising odds.

There is though, of course, a school of thought in the markets that a recession, particularly a shallow one, which is the most probable outcome,

according to Goldman Sachs, would be perhaps preferable at this point, to bring down inflation, flush it out of the system, and stop this aggressive

tightening cycle from the Federal Reserve Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I guess the probabilities of a recession in 2023, at this point, critically important to given that we've got this Fed hiking cycle

that could last certainly until the end of the third quarter into the fourth quarter of this year.

And I want to hone back in on what Musk said about job cuts as well, because he's made some quite poignant comments about perhaps losing around

10 percent of his salaried workforce. He talked about raising hourly workers or hourly waged workers. He's also made some poignant comments

about working from home as well. So he was no doubt tackled on that too, Clare.

SEBASTIAN: Yes, there's been some confusing messaging from Musk about job cuts over the last month somewhat clarified today in remarks that he made

at the Qatar Economic Forum.

He said that overall job cuts at Tesla would be about three to three and a half percent. That is because they're going to cut salaried workers by

about 10 percent over the next three months, but raise hourly workers.

And I wanted to show you the context to this Julia because Tesla's workforce has grown dramatically over the past couple of years up from

about 48,000 people at the end of 2019, to really double that, by the end of 2021. Of course, you and I know the company has expanded a lot.

We've had the Shanghai Gigafactory, Berlin, now, Austin, Texas, within our headquarters, so a lot of expansion, but Musk is saying that they've

expanded too fast in some areas. So he's now correcting that interestingly, he's also not ruling it out if and when perhaps he takes over Twitter,

which is causing some jitters there.

And as you say, risky, perhaps in a tight labor market his comments to Tesla employees about working from home. He wants to see everyone back in

the office. Of course, surveys have showed that more and more people are now looking for flexibility.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and to your bigger point, though there, which I think is perfectly accurate when you ramp up hiring that fast. You're going to make

some wrong decisions. They're going to be people that aren't the right fit. So it makes sense.

And I think he did say as well, a year from now, the headcount will be higher in both the salaried and the hourly workers too, which gives you a

sense of his belief of ongoing expansion for Tesla, even if we do see a significant slowdown, interesting Clare Sebastian, great to have your

context, thank you.

OK, let we bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories making headlines around the world. In Washington a panel investigating the January

6 Capitol Insurrection, resumes public hearings today. The House Select Committee will focus on how Former President Donald Trump pressured local

and state officials to overturn the 2020 presidential election results.


CHATTERLEY: You can see the entire hearing plus in depth analysis right here on CNN starting at 1 pm in Washington, that's 6 pm in London 1 am in

Hong Kong. Israelis will head to the polls for the fifth time in four years. It comes after Prime Minister Naftali Bennett and a key ally Foreign

Minister Yair Lapid failed to shore up their coalition but it will submit a bill to dissolve parliament paving the way for an another election later on

this year.

And still ahead on "First Move" on the years a longest day just how long recession fears dominate financial markets? Mohamed El-Erian weighs in,

plus Chef Khanna the Celebrity Chef joins me free heart to heart on helping the world's widows on a huge day for him and then stay with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Investors dipping their toes into the Wall Street pool on this first day of summer. Or should we say diving

in headfirst. Perhaps the entire major averages ready to rally in early trade after the worst losses for U.S. stock markets in more than two years

last week.

But also we need to watch global bond yields which continue to rise on expectations of further rate hikes. Morgan Stanley saying today that

central bank tightening is still not fully priced in to stock markets.

In the meantime, Kellogg the home of Tony, the Tigers Frosted Flakes as a tiger in the tank pre market rallying almost 6 percent after announcing

plans to split into three separately traded - publicly traded companies, including one for the plant based foods.

And President Biden looking to tame the inflation tiger in Americans gas tanks too, saying he's nearing a decision on supporting a federal gas tax

holiday that could ease prices at the pump. It's not certain whether oil companies would pass along the savings to consumers and it will do cause

still need congressional approval.

The White House also set to meet with oil refinery executives this week to discuss the energy price spike, which is worsening the inflation picture

globally. Mohamed El-Erian joins us now he's Advisor for Allianz and Gramercy. He's also President of Queens College, Cambridge University.

Mohamed, fantastic to have you on the show! I want to start big picture with a game of what appears to be whack a mole in terms of rate hikes. If

you just look in the last week, the Federal Reserve, the U.K., the ECB, and the Swiss Central Bank as well all hiking rates.


CHATTERLEY: It's like that song anything I can do you can do - no anything you can do I can do better and perhaps have to because if I don't and my

currency weakens I start importing inflation, and it makes the whole picture worse. Is it a huge problem?

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, ADVISOR FOR ALLIANZ, GRAMERCY: It is, and you will - we will end up with having more tightening globally than we would have

otherwise. As you say, the biggest surprise was the Swiss National Bank. This is a bank that traditionally has resisted a strong currency, and

traditionally has followed the European Central Bank.

And here, it took a step ahead of the European Central Bank, and is worried about a weak currency. So this is a change in the paradigm. It's not

everybody, Japan is the big outlier. But it's certainly enough to tighten global financial conditions further.

CHATTERLEY: The important point, among many there is this global drain on liquidity, and many and you included have said, Look, we need to get

cracking on this or the situation is going to get, as it has, in many ways out of control in terms of pricing pressures. But what does it mean for

growth and the calibration of policy going forward? It makes the uncertainty greater at the same time.

EL-ERIAN: It does. I mean, think of the person in the street, having to deal with first with the impact of high and persistent inflation, which

eats away at our purchasing power. And now we worried about a recession that eats away at our income.

So you get hit on both sides. You know Julia, you and I have been talking about this for a year. It didn't need to be like this. This will be written

as the story of central banks and the Fed in particular, that did not take inflation seriously did not ease it fought off the stimulus accelerating

when it could have in an orderly fashion without sacrificing growth.

And now, people are realizing the Fed is slamming on the brakes, and that unfortunately, has adverse consequences on growth.

CHATTERLEY: Professor Ken Rogoff said to us yesterday that the Fed's forecasts effectively remain a fairy tale and the end game is that they're

going to simply have to accept higher inflation for longer, or continue to slam on the brakes, as you pointed out and force the economy into

recession. Would you agree?

EL-ERIAN: Yes, I think that's one of the two mistakes the Fed continues to do, which not to be open about what's ahead? Compare it to the Bank of

England, the Bank of England came out and said inflation is going up to 11 percent, there's going to be a growth consequence, they have been trying to

play the role of the honest broker, the honest adviser.

Unfortunately, the Fed right now is still too political. And the second mistake they're still making is not explaining like European Central Bank

has, why it is the inflation forecasts have been so wrong for so long. Until they do these two things, that credibility is going to be questioned.

And they're going to be having to be even more hawkish than they would have been otherwise.

CHATTERLEY: What do you mean by the central bank being too political, Mohamed?

EL-ERIAN: So it's easy to tell people good news. It's much harder to tell people I made a mistake. And now inflation is going to be higher for longer

and growth is going to be lower than it would have been otherwise. That is what I mean.

It's much - that's - as a technocrat that is what you should be telling people so that you regain credibility. But if you don't want to do that,

you become political. And that tends to undermine the credibility that is so important, because forward policy guidance is a critical tool for the

Federal Reserve.

CHATTERLEY: You break trust with consumers. You also break trust, in many ways with investors. You've had it good for a really long time. I think a

lot of people have been asking after several tumultuous weeks on financial markets, what does it take to stabilize?

And some have come forward and said, look, it's going to take the end of the hiking cycle, an indication from the Federal Reserve to use the United

States in the example that they're done hiking, is it that or is it even just a case of them regaining the credibility that I think we're agreeing

they've lost over this, and that will calm investors whether or not it can calms consumers?

EL-ERIAN: I think regaining credibility will go a very long way. There's a reason why markets are nervous about inflation. We talked about the growth

consequences. But there are also social consequences, institutional consequences and political consequences.

So the markets are waiting to see the Federal Reserve regain control of inflation narrative and convince people that it has a one way to lower and

more stable inflation. It has to be much more realistic about what that one way looks like? But if it was to get there, and I hope it does, it would

address a lot of the uncertainties and markets today.


CHATTERLEY: We're having this strange debate, I think, as well about inevitability or not. And we're having it the U.S. administration level and

beyond. We run boom, bust cycles. That's the unfortunate fact of our economic and our fiscal and monetary and fiscal policy all around the

world, or at least in the West. Timing of recession however, is not inevitable in any way. What's your sense of timing?

EL-ERIAN: So my sense, recession isn't inevitable. Stagflation is, and we are feeling it. But in the United States, recession isn't inevitable. This

is something that can still be navigated relatively well. I don't want to say - I don't want to say well, because well was last year, and you and I

talked about it over and over again last year.

At that point, we could have got lower inflation without sacrificing growth. Now we are sacrificing growth. But hopefully, it will not push us

into recession. But if the Fed continues to lag market, and continues to lag the credibility it needs, it will take us into recession. And that

would be tragic.

CHATTERLEY: Where do you go for capital return Mohamed, in these markets, or even capital preservation in light of what we're seeing today?

EL-ERIAN: So you're still cautious. I think today, it's good to see the markets bounce. You mentioned how brutal last week was? But it's not just

last week. The S&P is down 23 percent, this year, so far, the NASDAQ is down 31 percent. These are big, big losses.

So the good news for long term investors is that valuation is being created, that now things are somewhat less expensive than they've been

before. And the other good news is that the bond market is starting to offer somewhat of an offset in terms of risk mitigation, something that

investors have not had, because the markets were distorted so long by central banks. So we get into a better place. But the journey itself is

going to continue to be incredibly bumpy.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, early on in my career, one of my bosses said to me, healthy markets don't all go up at once, and all go down at once. If you

move some of the liquidity out of it, and you get some differentiation in products and you know, you're getting some degree back towards something

healthier. Well, that was a long time ago. It's great to chat to you.

EL-ERIAN: That's absolutely correct, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it was early on and it was a real lesson. Great to chat to you as always Mohamed El-Erian, Advisor for Allianz, Gramercy and President

of Queens College Cambridge University, sir we always welcome your wisdom thank you. The market open is next stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! U.S. stocks are up and running on this first trading way of a holiday shortened week the first day of summer

too and a warm glow for U.S. stocks with all the major averages currently up as you can see around 1.5 percent or more gains across the board.

Oil also heating up a less positive sign for growth of course as traders anticipates higher fuel demand during the summer months as well as lagging

supply due to the war in Ukraine. As you can see, those are the prices there oil up more than 60 percent over the past six months.

Speaking of Ukraine, the Ukrainian Military Commander for Luhansk says the Russian forces attacking Sievierodonetsk have firepower for a large scale

offensive. He says several pieces of heavy equipment have been moved into the region.

Russia now controls most of the city apart from the industrial zone and a chemical plant. Ukrainian defenders are holding up Russian efforts to seize

the parts of Luhansk region it does not yet control. And Moscow threatening to retaliate after its access to Kaliningrad was blocked. The Russian

enclave is encircled by the European Union. Lithuania halted some rail shipments to the enclave in line with EU sanctions. Nic Robertson joins us

now on this. Nic, this is Lithuania simply complying with EU sanctions. But clearly the Russians are deeply upset about this and threatening serious


Can you give us a sense of what the consequences are for Russia as a result of these blocking of the shipments and what consequences might come to

Lithuania as a result?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: This could be a very serious tension that could grow out of this. Kaliningrad you know this

pocket of land that you describe half a million people almost live there separated from mainland Russia but still Russia.

And it's Russia has a very important naval base for Russia for their Baltic Fleet. They have significant missile systems there they are Iskander miss

out there is widely believed by many European politicians to actually have a nuclear tipped missiles in that missile system.

So you know, this is a piece of territory that Russia considers very important now what the shipments are that we understand that have been

stopped things that are blocked by EU sanctions. So that is building material that is antiques and arts. Golf clubs are another thing on that

list, according to the Russians in Kaliningrad.

But the language that's being used here and the actions by Russia sending a top Security Council Representative there today saying that Lithuanians'

actions are hostile and could have negative consequences for the Lithuanians.

This is really strong language and the European Commission's top representative of Moscow was called in for meetings there. The European

Commission has reiterated Lithuania is doing nothing and as you were saying, complying with EU sanctions.

So these actions that began were taken by Lithuania's rail network just a couple of days ago have already spiked into a real temper and heated words

here and the potential because it's important to Russia. This could go further.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and of course Lithuania a member of NATO too which also means perhaps the response as far as Russia is concerned is different in

calibrated and certainly in a different way. Nic Robertson, thank you so much.

Ukraine's President says Africa is being held hostage thanks to the war launched by Russia. Speaking to the African Union, Volodymyr Zelenskyy

called Russia's blockade of Ukrainian exports a war crime.

Millions of tons of grain are currently unable to safely leave Ukraine and the UN says that could mean acute food insecurity for a further 47 million

people around the world. David McKenzie is in Johannesburg for us, David politically, this is an interesting one?

You get the comments from President Zelenskyy but at the same time, many of these African nations retain close ties to Russia, close ties to China and

they felt a support that UN General Assembly were resolution condemning the invasion earlier this year. What do you make of these comments and the



DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zelenskyy certainly was talking to the African Union to try getting political support, as well as to yet

again, point out from the Ukrainian perspective, that it's the Russians that invaded Ukraine.

And it's the Russians that are blockading the ports like Odessa, that there are millions of tons of grain, waiting to be exported, particularly to

African countries. You know, several African countries are deeply dependent on imports from Ukraine and from Russia of grain.

And you've seen the spike in these commodity prices over the past few months that will be sustained say economists and could lead eventually into

actually food shortages for these nations. But the issue of food insecurity is colliding with the issue of global politics, as you describe, and some

17 nations abstained from the vote condemning Russia at the UN General Assembly from invading. And it shows that there is this ambivalence towards

only supporting Ukraine and at times, not necessarily criticizing Russia.

I spoke to the Foreign Minister of South Africa, a key minister on the continent. She said that the statement from the Zelenskyy to the African

Union didn't make sense to her, because there should be talks to resolve this issue she said.


NALEDI PANDOR, SOUTH AFRICAN FOREIGN MINISTER: I found the hostage notion, odd in the context of discussions that are trying to find a solution to

this. The situation of not having access to wheat is a very problematic one for many countries on the African continent, because it does affect their

food security situation. So we have to find a solution to that one that both Ukraine and Russia would agree to.


MCKENZIE: Now, this is the statement and the kind of thrust coming from South Africa and some other nations in Africa, that there should be talks

to solve both the issue of grain blockade and also the conflict writ large.

Now, that's very different, of course, from the attitudes coming from the European Union, the U.S. and others that are placing the blame squarely in

the court of Putin and his military for invading Ukraine and causing this issue in the first place.

The EU Foreign Policy Chief said that this is basically when Putin says that sanctions are to blame for the food insecurity that he's saying that

something's to blame that he in fact, created. There hasn't been Julia much progress in any kind of talks to end that blockade and particularly around

Odessa. It's also just logistically a very difficult thing.

You have defensive minds from the Ukrainians to try and stop an amphibious landing, as well as warships from the Russians. That would potentially

target any kind of shipment going out as the--

CHATTERLEY: And we appear to have lost it David there we thank him for that report David McKenzie, there. OK, after the break, working for widows

around the world. We speak to Vikas Khanna, Michelin Star Chef, Author, Entrepreneur, Movie Maker and more on a personal crusade to help those

ostracized from society. Today is a very special day for him details next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! International Widow's Day will be observed this week. And it's a vital reminder that in large parts of the world losing a

husband can lead to the loss of rights, dignity and respect, and a fall into the shadows of poverty.

Ostracized and treated as third class citizens. These abandoned women often find themselves with nowhere to go. It's estimated there are nearly 260

million widows around the world, and nearly one in 10 live in extreme poverty.

Well, one man fighting to change that is my next guest. He's a Michelin Star Chef and Restaurateur who cooked for everyone from Barack Obama to the

Dalai Lama, Vikas Khanna also happens to be an Author, a storyteller and a movie maker. His critically acclaimed hit the last color stars actress and

director Nina Gupta, and showcases the plight of the women he fights for today as global Goodwill Ambassador for Widows.

And he's on Capitol Hill today calling for the U.S. Congress to pass a bill focused on the empowerment and dignity of widows. And it's something he

watched his grandmother face and questioned even as a young child, I began by asking what this would all mean for her?

VIKAS KHANNA, GLOBAL GOODWILL AMBASSADOR FOR WIDOWS: Not just my grandma Julia, I had women in the communities who were never allowed to be a part

of the Festival of Colors, which is really, which moved me a lot, because they were just white.

And also, without dignity, not been invited to festivals or weddings or child births and that's something I would never understand it, why my aunt

is not there? And they said no, you know, it's like being a widow is inauspicious and I never understood that as a child.

You know, as kids, we generally do what you know, elders do, and we can't replicate their behavior. So nobody questioned it. But when in 2011, I was

in Brindavan, which is a holy city where they were playing with colors.

And I saw all these widows in white saris, on the side of the roads, just watching people drenched in color, which is like a harbinger of spring, the

festival. And one elderly woman as I was looking at her, and she touched my forehead to bless me, and I felt that moment was much bigger than I can

ever experience anything.

And I promised her that I will do anything in my power or my determination to make this change where you would be able to have the dignity in the

court of law. And globally, you'll be able to fight for this. And that really, really broke me very deeply.

And today, I feel that I'm one step closer to keeping that promise to her. I don't even know who that woman was. But that inspired me to write a short

story than a novel "The Last Color" and the movie, "The Last Color". And it just continued to have that promise which I wanted to reach this point,

what's happening today at the Washington D.C.

CHATTERLEY: I have seen you talk about this many times. And you and I have spoken about it just together in one of the ways you described it to me the

first time was you didn't write this book and you didn't make this movie, it was a story told through you because you felt so passionately.

And it was that promise where you promise to fight for more and the word I think there that also will stand out to our audiences in auspicious. In

strange ways these women are the fundamental core of their communities, the heart of their communities.

And then suddenly, once they lose their partner or their husband, they become in auspicious, they become almost bad omens. And I think I know to

you it was sort of heartbreaking and I hope it sort of breaks the heart in some way of the people listening on why this is so important. What do you

want Congress to do? What specifically needs to change?


KHANNA: Sometime back at the UN General Assembly, we had resolution passed, which recognizes the widows. And now the Congress, if we have this

legislation passed to recognize widows for the dignity, it helps us to go globally.

And I feel that's the only way to move forward. You know, legislation in the Congress is recognized throughout the world. And these women will have

the choice to go into court of law and to fight for the properties for their dignity, for not being told that there is an auspicious and they have

to leave the homes.

They can be living their life of dignity, which has been that word, and I'm repeating a lot because I've seen this women live that kind of life, and

they are in this extreme poverty, and you see them begging on the streets.

And I think, at the Congress, recognition of this would really help us especially, when the United Nations has been so supportive of this mission.

And I think this is only happening to this stage because of Heather Ibrahim letters.

It is her determination and a Foundation Global Fund for Widows. They stood by this and you know when she saw the movie, which was screened at the

United Nations, she was one of the very important parts of this equation.

And we met few years ago, and she was very moved that and there was no movie or anything. I had just written a book and a screenplay. But I saw

what she was doing. And I said, you know, Heather, this is one of my biggest missions of my life right now.

And she says, we are in this together, I never forget that. And now we are in this together as we climb the steps of the Congress. And we testify to

talk about that, why this is something which is a basic right of every woman.

CHATTERLEY: I mean, this movie, I recommend everybody watches it "The Last Color", it's also about a widow saying to a young girl, getting education,

the importance of shaping your life in so many ways. As this little girl also helps this widow feel color again, and we're sharing images, as we

speak now, and I do recommend everybody watches this. It's such an incredibly poignant and beautiful movie. How does this moment feel for you?

You are many things. You are an author. You're a Michelin Star Chef. You are a movie creator, and many other things. You have an enormous heart. How

does this moment feel as someone who grew up in India described and saw the things that you did?

And is now here at Capitol Hill fighting for these women? Surreal, I guess would be one of the ways I would describe it. How does it feel? Can you put

it into words because I know you could do that very well?

KHANNA: In one small statement, I feel the spring has finally arrived. It was a spring which was taken away from them. And I feel that it's arrived,

it's at the doorstep, you know, there's a choice now. And I feel much empowered myself, just being in this position to be.

And you know, if you look at the movie, "The Last Color", this was my first feature film, I had no experience of making movies. And then I met India's

top actress, Nina Gupta, who plays the role of the widow.

And she said, remember one thing movies are not made with money, they're made with heart. And you had that heart and you have that - you're ready to

share that story of that pain and empowerment so she's saying she's with me. And it's because of the energy that we came so far, literally, in terms

of the movie does help you to redefine our present tense and to impact the future. Movies have that power even more than books.

So right now, and I feel that with the power of social media and everything that more women will know about this resolution Touchwood, which gets

passed at the Congress and we - the word is surreal. We never thought we will be in a position right?

When I was jumping into this, everybody said you're a chef stick to lentils and rice. You shouldn't be doing this. I should be doing this as long I had

the choice to live and breathe and be free. And this is one of those expressions which this country gives to you that you got to express your


CHATTERLEY: Yes, you are the embodiment I think in many ways of the American dream, but also your own strength. And it's funny and classic that

I made that question about you and once again you made it about other people and for those that know you and those that don't and those that just

see you on social media and engage with you in all the different ways.

I think everybody knows you have this enormous his heart and at the core of your strength and those around that would push you on is a variable of

sister who you recently lost.


CHATTERLEY: And I know, you continue to fight for other people, and you show this enormous heart at a time when your heart is broken. And I just -

I want to ask you, how you continue to fight for others when you are going through such enormous heartbreak? And also what she would be saying to you

at this moment? I know she's looking down and pushing you but what she would be saying to you at this moment?

KHANNA: I just asked my sister Radika (ph) on February 28th, because of organ failure, and we were ready for the transplant. And the doctor said,

as March we should be able to transplant one of my kidneys to her and she told the doctor.

You know, Vikas would not even know how many kidneys are there in the body. But he'll still say I give it to you. She was younger than me. But she was

like my twin and at this time, if she will be calling me. She'll always tell me to send a picture what I'm wearing because I never used to care for

those things. And she looked at me, she said, no, no, you need to wear this designer.

Just say that I'm sending you clothes, which happened so many times that she'll run she'll buy me clothes. And she said, no, no, you have to pretend

or at least be in the moment where you've been somewhere.

And you discredit how far you've come and you think it has to show when you walk into that room and you know, when I was picking up these clothes, I

said I have to be white. And I kept thinking to her, she said yes, you have to be white. But you have to be white of this designer and there are

hundred different baits, you have to wear the white of the Swan, not of the white of the gardenia flower.

And she will know all these things, being a designer and it breaks my heart today that I have no one to tell me that this white is the white of a

flower or a bird. Nobody's telling me that. But I know that she's watching over me. And she's proud of this that you're fighting for these women who

might call my sisters and mothers whom we are fighting for and hope.

That even without them ever knowing in the future generations that they know that somebody actually had walked up and fought and stood up for them.

And that is something which is very important to me and to my sister who's watching over me.

CHATTERLEY: Vikas Khanna fighting for widows today in U.S. Congress. Stay with "First Move", more to come.


CHATTERLEY: OK, welcome back to "First Move"! An iconic floating restaurant in Hong Kong has sunk only days after it was towed out to see. Jumbo

Kingdom a three story vessel that was once the world's largest floating restaurant was being taken to an unspecified location after being mowed for

decades in Hong Kong southwest waters.


CHATTERLEY: It capsized on Saturday after hitting adverse conditions and sank more than 3000 meters making salvage work difficult. No crew members

were injured. What a shame I'd eaten on that?

And finally, ring the alarm Beyonce is back and she's breaking the internet. The "Single Ladies" song is just released break my soul early

Tuesday morning, the first single from her upcoming studio album "Renascence". The behind will have to wait a little longer though for more

music from Queen Bee.

The countdown to July 29th when "Renascence" is released, it is well underway, however, look, there's a look. And that's it for the show. If

you've missed any of our interviews today they'll be on my Twitter and Instagram pages search for @jchatterleycnn. We're going to bounce off to

that song "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next.