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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Blinken Attends Hunger Crisis Meeting in Berlin; Michel: Russia's War of Aggression is Pushing up prices on goods; EU Leaders Speak after Approving Ukraine's Candidate Status; U.S. Stocks Higher, on Track for a Winning Weak; Chipping Away Banking Barriers; Chipper Cash Making Banking Easier Across Africa. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired June 24, 2022 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: You're watching CNN; I'm Julia Chatterley in New York and a warm welcome once again to all our first

movers around the globe great to have you with us this Friday!

And it's actually a special "Song of the summer" edition of the program today. Number 5, on our "First Move" countdown "When Doves Cry" hawkish Fed

Chair Jay Powell veering yet again Thursday to team at soaring inflation, Powell's message to higher prices, just beat it.

And number 4, "We didn't start the fire" U.S. oil executives deflect blame for the petrol pain. But they call the emergency summit with Biden

officials Thursday, constructive. And number 3, "We're not going to take it" U.K. workers as threatened fresh walkouts and demand better pay amid

mounting political pressure on Boris Johnson could by-elections lead to a "Boris Bye! Bye!" we'll discuss shortly.

And number 2, "Let them in" the EU taking its first steps this week to offering membership to Ukraine and Moldova. And last but not least number

1, you got to have faith after a challenging few weeks for the bulls. Take a look at this U.S. Futures hitting high notes with Wall Street on track

for a winning week oversold.

Conditions I think perhaps helping stocks bounce. A lot of bad news also baked into prices including perhaps even a mild recession at these levels.

European stocks meanwhile, also higher after a strong handover from the Asia's session helping sentiment strong profits from economic bellwether

FedEx, and passing grades for U.S. banks in this year's stress test the Federal Reserve says major institutions are strong enough to endure even a

severe recession.

OK, that's it. Let's get straight to our top story today and we begin in Ukraine. Ukrainian forces are beginning to withdraw from the Eastern City

of Sievierodonetsk, as one military leader says relentless Russian shelling has completely destroyed the city's infrastructure. Salma Abdelaziz joins

us now live from Kyiv Salma, what more can you tell us because it does feel like the sense of they're saying there's nothing left to defend?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: This is a major and devastating loss for Ukrainian forces. This morning local officials saying that they are unable

to hold the line any longer that months, two months of constant Russian artillery attacks of constant aggression from Russian forces has forced

them essentially to withdraw to pull out of Sievierodonetsk, now that withdrawal will take a matter of days, but it's already underway.

We know that the last stand if you will was in this chemical plant the Azov chemical plant there were civilians that were sheltering alongside

Ukrainian defenders. And you can't ignore just how much powerful of a military Russia has. They have an advantage and artillery advantage of 10

to 1 when it comes to Ukrainian forces.

Their ground assault was being backed by the air they have multiple launch rocket systems. Ukraine on the other hand, was saying it was outmanned. It

was outgunned all along those front lines dozens of Ukrainian forces were dying every single day.

So yes, you are seeing Ukrainian forces now pull back they say they will continue to try to advance to try to win in Sievierodonetsk but do it from

a distance but you can't imagine how that could hold Julia and this is going to be a major victory for President Putin.

Sievierodonetsk is one of the last strongholds in the Luhansk area part of the wider Donbas and one of President Putin's major goals in this conflict

is to take full control - full control of the Donbas it allows him to form a land bridge that connects Russian territory all the way down to Crimea.

But it's also a cultural victory for President Putin who has ignored of course, Ukrainian sovereignty claim that these lands are Russian, it's a

land grab, and there's nothing standing in his way.

CHATTERLEY: Hard blow for the Ukrainians. Salma Abdelaziz thank you for that report there! Now Russia stands accused of using hunger as a weapon of

war. Germany says the whole world is now a hostage to the food crisis caused by the war in Ukraine.

A key meeting is taking place on the matter in Berlin with the U.S. Foreign Secretary arriving in the past hour. The aim is to find ways to get grain

out of Ukraine and to prevent parts of the world falling into famine Fred Pleitgen is in Berlin for u.

The message from the State Department, Fred and great to have you with us as this is a multiyear crisis. And nations have to plan accordingly. But in

the short term, what are the practical solutions being discussed?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's extremely difficult, Julia, it's something that we saw also today. I

think one of the reasons why this meeting in Berlin is actually so important is that it shows that this is a huge issue for the world's

community for the G7.

There is a G7 Foreign Ministers meeting going on with food security as its main topic, and it really shows that this is the top of the agenda for a

lot of these very, you know, high end economies for some of these top performing economies of the world and they understand they need to do



PLEITGEN: I was that a press statement between the Secretary of State and the German Foreign Minister and she unequivocally said that the world

community is not going to allow, as she put it, Russia's aggression in Ukraine, allowed to make the world dive into what she called global famine,

possible global famine.

But very important to ask what exactly are the solutions that can be had, in all of this? The German Foreign Minister there, saying that they would

try to get grain out of Ukraine. Of course, it is very difficult with a lot of those ports blockaded in Ukraine, of course, with Russian warships very

close to them.

The only alternative that can be seen right now would be by road or by rail. But of course, as you know, it's almost impossible, it probably isn't

possible, in fact, to make the kind of volume that you do with shipping grain by transporting it via the land route.

So certainly, the developed nations of the world, they see that this is a huge problem and something that they're working urgently on, they say. But

aside from trying to put economic pressure on Russia, and of course, supporting Ukraine militarily, it really is difficult to see what sort of

solutions there are.

One of the interesting things, though, Julia, that we heard there is that the German Foreign Minister and the Secretary of State both said that part

of what they also want to do is combat disinformation as far as food security is concerned.

They accuse Russia of not only using food as a weapon, but also spreading the message that it's actually the West that stopping those foods and

Ukraine that stopping those food stocks from leading Ukrainian ports. It's something that's we've actually heard from the Russians. I was actually on

the phone with the spokesman for the Kremlin last week.

And he said, yes, of course, they would let ships leave the port of Odessa. But the Ukrainians have to remove the minds that are there, of course,

trying to stop the Russians from moving their ships into there. And the Russians actually want to inspect the ships that go into the port of

Odessa. So you can see there's essentially an information war going on around that as well information battle.

But at the same time, of course, global food insecurity is a huge issue. And it is at the top of the agenda and certainly something just with the

presence of the U.S. Secretary of State here in Berlin today really shows how high up on the agenda it actually is Julia?

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely and all of these possible solutions, however difficult do need to be discussed. Fred, great to have you with us thank

you, Fred Pleitgen there!

And later on as Fred was discussing there will be speaking to the CEO of the State Owned Ukrainian railways, about the colossal challenges of moving

grain out of the country and the logistical challenges of doing so too.

Now already riven by scandals, Boris Johnson's Conservative Party has suffered two election defeats in one day the by elections was set to select

new lawmakers to replace it to disgrace stories. One has been caught watching porn in parliament and the other was jailed for sexual assault.

Bianca Nobilo joins us on this Bianca, great to have you with us! It comes of course just weeks after 41 percent I believe that was the number of the

Prime Minister's own MPs voted to oust him. It's an uncomfortable day even if you're 4000 miles away as he is.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is Julia and Boris Johnson's political rock bottom appears to be a moving target. He is in deep trouble today

because he built and contested his platform as Prime Minister based on the fact that he could deliver election victories.

And not just that, but that he could specifically appeal to working class urban areas in the north that are traditionally labor that may have favored

Brexit and Tory Heartlands in the south, like where I am right now, or where that by election intermittent and Huntington was contested.

These two by elections demonstrate in a microcosm that Boris Johnson's political formula to win elections is now toxic; it no longer works because

he's lost both. So he's in part partially protected in his position right now, because there's a confidence there was a confidence vote so recently

in him, technically, according to the rules, there can't be another free year.

But I have heard grumblings this morning from those who sit on that committee that they may be inclined to change the rules if something

doesn't change in a big way fast. So Boris Johnson could be looking at more creative ways to try and oust him.

And Julia, it was actually a triple blow for the Prime Minister this morning because not only did he lose two seats held by his party one, which

was extremely safe, but there was also the resignation of the Co-Chair of the Conservative Party Oliver Dowden.

Now, he said that he was resigning because the party has had a series of very poor election results. And pointedly he said someone should take

responsibility. Now in the phrasing of the sentence, you could read it as he himself in his resignation is taking responsibility, but also that he's

directing that towards the Prime Minister.

And that person Oliver Dowden was one of Johnson's biggest backers for leadership. And he even supported him in the confidence vote just a few

weeks ago. So all of this is building up a picture of even more dire political straits for Boris Johnson there was a lot of apathy in the

electorate too in those by elections.

And it just is really creating this difficult situation for the Conservative Party to get themselves out of Boris Johnson is proving to be

more politically toxic as time goes on and it seems that the longer they keep him as leader, the more irreparable that damage will be to the

Conservative Party brand, Julia.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a great point. And actually the other quote that I would have used Bianca and I thought that one as well from the party

Chairman, we cannot carry on with business as usual, which of course, is exactly what Boris Johnson is trying to do a warning, clearly, as you said

in these results. Great to have you with us, thank you Bianca Nobilo there!

OK, let me bring you up to speed with some of the other stories making headlines around the world January 6 Committee has held its last public

hearing before the July 4th holiday. On Thursday, top officials in Donald Trump's Justice Department testified that the Former President was

relentless in pushing election conspiracies for now I'm going to take you over, though to Brussels, where Charles Michel is speaking, let's listen


CHARLES MICHEL, PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL: --emerging European political community. It's not an alternative to enlargement, we so to frame

the idea by addressing three questions, why, and the idea is to ensure security and stability on the European continent.

What this could take the form of a platform for political dialogue in coordination with our European partners on an equal footing, and who we

think it's best for the format to be for leaders only. And we intend to define later its specific scope; we will have a possible first meeting in

prayer under the Czech Presidency.

And we will prepare together with the French President and the Czech rotating presidency, this possible meeting after the summer. Today we had

the Euro Summit, and we had the occasion to focus on two key points.

First, the current economic situation, inflation is a major concern for all of us; Russia's war of aggression is pushing up the price of energy, foods

and commodities. And all of this has a direct impact on our citizens and businesses. We are united and we agreed to closely coordinate our economic

policy responses.

And second topic, our European political - our European financial architecture. We remain committed to completing the banking union and

further steps will follow and the deepening of the Capital Markets Union remains a priority.

Also we had an opportunity to talk again about the progress - take into account the work that has been done starting with and commission. And

finally to - I would like to mention a significant step forward, has been taken by Croatia now about to join the Euro area.

That's an important decision which was endorsed by the European Council - taking place in the coming months, we'd like to warmly congratulate

equation and people on - how resilient the Euro area has been.

And finally on Greece, we have the opportunity to pay tribute to the steps forward made by Greece in terms of program - which also shows a significant

progress that has been achieved. And this one thing I'd like to mention still - I'd like to, again, express our thanks to the French Presidency of

the European Union. We had an opportunity at the end of European Council, again - to congratulate France on the gigantic political work that has been

done in a number of areas and these efforts will continue because in the coming days, the Western Balkans in particular, and North Macedonia and

Albania, in the light of the vote in Bulgaria and Poland a few hours ago as still something to be done.

So we'll continue to watch that closely and again huge thanks to - the whole team which was mobilized to make progress of the European project.

Then also I have a particular message to the staff to - might surprise you. And - you're something of an institution in the counsel press room. Well

known throughout the world.

MICHEL: I'd like to thank you from the bottom of our hearts and the applause shows how much affection you enjoy impress. So again, many thanks.



URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you so much. Indeed, today we had the opportunity to hold an in depth discussion

on the economy during the Euro summit. The Euro area is forecast to continue growing both in 22 and 23, although by less than we anticipated

before the war. Obviously, the war in Ukraine is having a heavy impact both on growth and on inflation.

We've seen Russia's disruptive action on gas, and we're seeing price increases beyond energy on food and elsewhere in the economy. Therefore, we

discussed how to mitigate the economic and social impacts, especially on the most vulnerable of our societies.

This starts with being adequately prepared to deal with potential further disruptions in deliveries of Russian gas to Europe, and we're working hard

on this. We have reviewed all the national emergency plans to help make sure everyone is ready for further disruptions.

And we are working on a common European emergency demand reduction plan with industry but also with a 27 member states. We do this because we've

learned our lesson from COVID-19. There we have seen that when we act together as 27.

When we avoid fragmentation, we are strong and we have an enormous impact. I will present this plan in July to the leaders. There will not be a return

to cheap fossil fuels, I think and therefore alongside temporary and targeted support to vulnerable families and businesses. It is essential to

help our economies and societies to adapt to the new conditions.

The root cause of our problem is our dependence on fossil fuel, which we must get rid of. And this is basically the essence of repower issue we are

providing through the power EU resources of round about 300 billion euro to do three things on one hand to diversify our energy supply. Second pillar

is to increase the energy efficiency.

And the third pillar is the supply of our own green renewable energy. And we are already seeing results. If I may give you an example for the first

pillar that diversification away from Russian gas, we see that the U.S. LNG deliveries to the European Union are up by 75 percent.

This year compared to last year, we've just done an MOU with Israel, Egypt and the European Union to make sure that there's natural gas from Israel,

liquefied in Egypt and then brought via LNG to the European Union. The Norwegian pipeline gas is up 15 percent, Azerbaijan up by plus 90 percent.

So there's a lot on the move, really to diversify away from the Russian gas to other trustworthy suppliers. Looking at the renewables, I think there's

one interesting figure, the European Union was and is the second largest market globally in terms of increased capacity of renewables in 21, and

will be in 22.

So you also see the big move forward of heavy investment in renewables, that is the energy of the future. That's the way to go. A second topic that

we have been discussing is in parallel that we are working on the review of the economic governance, we know that depths and deficits have soared in

all member states after COVID. And at the same time, investment needs are very large for a successful transition to green, digital and resilient you

society and economy.

And therefore, we need to design rules that in a way reconcile these higher investment needs, they are necessary and at the same time to safeguard

sound fiscal finances. The one goes with the other that is fiscal sustainability and growth.

And let me also end Emmanuel by congratulating you to an extremely successful French Presidency, it was colossal the work you've done I've

witnessed this every day how intensive your team and I really want to thank you and your team has been working on progress in the European Union, it

really made a difference.


LEYEN: And let me also end Emmanuel by congratulating you to an extremely successful French Presidency, it was colossal the work you've done I've

witnessed this every day how intensive your team and I really want to thank you and your team has been working on progress in the European Union, it

really made a difference.

I mean, we should keep in mind that when you started, there was a lot on your plate. But you had no clue that there was a war coming in record time,

we delivered together six packages of heavy sanctions. And I think it was a Hallmark and a very defining moment to see the determination of the

European Union and the speed at which we can move forward.

We have in this time welcomed 7.5 million refugees from Ukraine, 3 million are still here. And you and your team has presidency made it possible that

we very quickly granted temporary protection, that is access to the labor market, to the education system, to the Social Security system.

All this thanks to the French presidency. I thank you personally for the enormous progress that we have made in the European Green Deal. And here

specifically, the huge package of fit for 55 dozens of proposals has now been pushed forward. And this is a real step forward.

The same goes and I know this is very close to your heart, the DSA and the DMA so the getting an order into the online world, as well as we have it in

the offline world to protect our citizens, and to keep up the competitiveness of our businesses in the online world.

This has been the DSA NTMA negotiated with ambition and adopted in record time really delivered. There was the conference on the future of Europe.

But I'm personally very proud on one specific file that you have concluded in the French presidency. And this is women on board. It took 10 long

years; it was stuck for 10 years.

And the French presidency made it possible that it reappeared and was negotiated and adopted in record time so not only that you finish an

injustice for women, but also an enormous loss for off earnings for companies. It's a real big step forward that we have now, this agreement on

women onboard.

Last but not least, and I want to men not miss to mention it. We have made good progress on the pact on migration and asylum, especially on the

voluntary solidarity mechanism. And on the governance of Schengen important files were difficult to manage. You really pushed it forward. And I stopped

here, but as you can see there Emmanuel, I think France can be very proud of this presidency. It was outstanding, and many thanks for that.

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: Madam President, thank you, Madam President. Mr. President. Thank you very much President. Madam President, a

lot has been said and I won't go over this morning's debates. I think the conclusions are clear.

And the President of the Council and the President of the Commission, we have set out exactly what it was all about to try and find a response to

energy issues or more broadly, the issue that we're all living through at the moment and the sudden return of inflation, monetary policy on two sides

of the ocean, and also signs of slowing economic activity, and we're all called upon by that situation, to take decisions.

And it has been mentioned, we need to think about what we can do to make Europe stronger, to show more solidarity and financial issues, too. I just

wanted to say one thing in response to what President Michel was saying before he talks about the European political community. We had a debate on

that yesterday, after the press conference that we held.

And that gave me an opportunity to get a clearer idea of this and Dallas, some consensus around the table. This was shifted you now this is not

something it's not a process to replace enlargement, not at all. I think we all saw that there was a need for a European political framework to deal

with strategic issues. And we saw that enlargement because of its pace, and how long it takes does not do everything that we need to do in Europe.

So we want this new approach to include everybody from Ukraine to Iceland to bring together partners on issues like defensive security energy

infrastructure health crises, economic solidarity, to talk about these key issues, and - we have to be prepared.


MACRON: And we've decided that the first meeting will take place in the Czech Republic under the incoming presidency with all our partners, the

idea being to have a partnership between equals and then we'll put flesh on the bones as we go along. If you don't get that it's got clear benefits for

us all.

I also want to come back to something that was mentioned yesterday. But what happened this morning is shown how topical this is, it's about the

accession negotiations with North Macedonia and Albania. And we had the call for the votes in the Bulgarian Parliament for the lifting of the

Bulgarian veto regarding the North Macedonia and accession negotiations, which helps Albania as well.

So we'll continue with this we've got a negotiation with our Bulgarian North Macedonia and counterparts to sort that out that agreement of the

next few days, and everybody's prepared to get all that formalized.

Yes, I'd like to thank all Bulgarian Prime Minister, coalition partner's opposition parties who actually voted that through. So congratulations,

North Macedonia on the progress there's work still to be done. But that's important progress nonetheless. I'd also like to thank President Pantaleon

for taking stock of the last six months.

This gives me an opportunity to say that all this progress and I'll mention some things specifically, but this would not have been possible without all

the hard work of the President Michel and President von der Leyen.

And their services and all the European Parliament that worked flat out the institutions have worked together and during the six month period have been

able to take action we have to all recognize with a great deal of humility. That European in June 2020 is very different from the 1, 2022 is very

different from the Europe of January 2022. And we've all had to pull together this has been made necessary because of Russia's decision to

launch a war. And we've actually been able to come up with some very --.

CHATTERLEY: --there French President Emmanuel Macron, speaking there in Brussels. We also heard from the EU Commission President Ursula Von Der

Leyen and the Council President too there Charles Michel just wrapping up two days of a leader summit.

Obviously the key issues discussed the war in Ukraine. As you heard there, the decision to make Ukraine an EU candidates they will provide them with

EU candidate status now. The work really begins on more aligning them with other EU nations. They talked about monetary policy, the impact of

inflation and the struggle that's providing that they need to work in a coordinated fashion to address it.

And obviously some of the critical issues and the vulnerabilities that we see for EU nations the reliance on fossil fuels and Ursula Von Der Leyen

just going through the steps that have been taken and the increase in LNG capacity coming in from the United States deals with Israel with Egypt,

Norwegian LNG as well and Azerbaijan.

So work has been made clearly the point also being made that far more work is required and we've been discussing that on the show all week. For now

we're going to take a break we'll be back right after this stay with "First move".



CHATTERLEY: Hey, welcome back to "First Move"! U.S. stocks are up and running this Friday and no end of week - stocks firmly in the green for a

second straight session and on track for a winning week overall the first in almost a month or that and despite ongoing fears that the Fed could

tighten policy too aggressively and tip the U.S. economy into recession.

Now Western Foreign Ministers meeting in Berlin as we've already discussed on the show trying to find an urgent solution to the global food crisis.

The short term key task is working out how to get huge stores of grain from Ukraine, given that Russia has blockaded its sea ports?

And if a solution can't be found, there are fears people in some parts of the world could be driven closer to famine. Let's speak to someone who

could be part of a major solution. Oleksandr Kamyshin is the CEO of the State Owned Ukrainian Railways. He's also a part time adviser to the

Ukrainian Ministry of Infrastructure and he joins us now.

Oleksandr, it is fantastic to have you on the show. Talk to us about these hopes that perhaps rail, trucks could be part of the solution. How easy is

it given mismatches in rail infrastructure storage capacities, just talk us through whether you can be part of the solution?

OLEKSANDR KAMYSHIN, CEO OF STATE OWNED UKRAINIAN RAILWAYS: Alright before the war we've done about five to seven million tons of grains exports a

month. So far we do 600 to 800,000 tons a month and we plan to approach 1 million in the nearest months.

That's only about railway export. If you double that you will get total export from the country. So having about 2 million tons of grain export

from us we are three times lower than we should have because we got grain to do six to seven million tons a month.

Finally, we work on extending the western border corridors together with Poland, Romania, and other countries like Hungary and Slovakia. Meanwhile

we agreed that we will run Ukraine and rail cars on the European network, and that will allow us to significantly increase the capacity. And finally,

without unlocking the seaport, we will be struggling but we will not get all the grain out.

CHATTERLEY: Wow! OK, so there are two problems there. The first problem which is understandable, which is you're doing nowhere near the capacity

that you were doing before the war started never mind being able to try and increase beyond that.

And you're saying there are logistical challenges with doing that anyway. Oleksandr I know I'm asking perhaps impossible questions given the fact

that the war continues but how much time do you think it will take to you even get back to the point where you can transport what you were doing pre-

war never mind adding to that?

KAMYSHIN: Plants - increase the export of grains by rail only 10 to 30 percent. So from 800,000 tons a month, which we done in May and it will

take us a year to get to the level where we were before the war but in the seaports we will increase the capacity and will decrease the term was in

which we'll get back to normal level.


CHATTERLEY: I know you met with some of the European leaders when they traveled to Ukraine, did you make that clear to them that you said look,

rail, road, that's not ultimately going to be part of a short term solution. Somehow the international community need to get those ports open

and clear that waterway and make it safe. Did you make that point to them and what was their response?

KAMYSHIN: U.S. leaders as well as European leaders do understand that unlocking sea ports are the key. So far, we have to work with extending the

capacities on the borders, on the western borders to keep run until the sea ports are unlocked.

CHATTERLEY: OK, so message was provided, what was their response Oleksandr will try?

KAMYSHIN: Definitely all of the European and all the leaders are helping us in opening the sea ports, unlocking the sea ports, but so far no success.

CHATTERLEY: Oleksandr, you're also tackling, trying to keep your people safe, you have many tens of thousands of workers that have remained in the

country and are still working.

I know you're trying to repair damage that's been walked through the war as well.

Can you give us a sense of that challenge, too, and how much time you think it's going to take to repair the infrastructure and what kind of outside

support is being provided in that regard?

KAMYSHIN: So far, once Russians shell us, we keep repairing and keep running on schedule. But reconstruction of the damage of the infrastructure

damage, will take some time - months and its years even. So far, we'll find a way how to keep running and to make an easy fix that will keep us

running. But finally, to have all the damage, reconstruct it will take us years.

CHATTERLEY: Oleksandr, I want to ask you as well about some comments that I've seen you make in the past, and it was about refrigeration, trucks,

containers, and they were being used to house the bodies of fallen Russian soldiers that died fighting in Ukraine.

And you said that your hope was that the Russian government would take them back and allow Russian families to bury their loved ones and understand

what happened in Ukraine. I just wondered if you're still keeping the bodies of those soldiers in order to allow them to be taken back to Russia.

And what happens if they're not if the Russian government doesn't take them back?

KAMYSHIN: You know we started the program in the first weeks of the war when we saw that Russians, indeed, do not take their bodies back. But

finally, you know, some people say that they treat dead Russians but then they treat their counterparts, which are alive. And finally, we don't have

another option, but keep having those fridges on and keep storing those bodies.

CHATTERLEY: I think your point there is a poignant one, that you're treating dead Russians better perhaps than Russians are treating living

Ukrainians. Oleksandr stay in touch with us, please. We'll speak to you again soon. Oleksandr Kamyshin there thank you! We're back after this stay

with "First Move".



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". Chipping away at barriers to banking in Africa in 2018 two young Africans saw a problem with the

country's antiquated banking system. It doesn't connect everyone and sending money costs too much the solution an app that makes sending and

receiving money as easy as texting.

Chipper Cash allows customers to transfer money pay bills, trade Bitcoin and invest in U.S. stocks all on their cell phone. The app now has over 5

million registered users and is available in nine countries, seven of them in Africa.

And joining us now is Ham Serunjogi. He's the CEO and Co-Founder of Chipper Cash, Ham fantastic to have you on the show. This is an African solution to

a problem that you discovered as a young boy and the challenges that your family faced. Explain what this service provides to individuals and why

it's been so transformative for your users?

HAM SERUNJOGI, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, CHIPPER CASH: Good morning, Julia, thank you for having me! So yes, rightly put, Chipper Cash is a financial

platform aimed at being intertwined in the fabric of people's financial lives and Africa. And really the impetus of the company came out of my Co-

Founder dies - experiences growing up. I grew up at a time when both my parents were self-employed.

And watching my parents really struggled to make payments to people that they worked with or that they interacted with was one of the driving

forces. And the realization that this was a massive continent wide problem really got us excited.

But for many people in Africa, making payments to someone else in the country and or in another country is incredibly difficult. And so for me

seeing that firsthand, from my parents was a really, really strong, little strong impression on me and really drove me to start the company with my

Co-founder made it.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think my key question will be how? How are you managing to keep costs for remittances and payments so much lower than other options

out there? What's the technology and how?

SERUNJOGI: Yes, so it's a really, really complicated, multifaceted problem, right? There are many aspects to it. There's the liquidity issue, you have

to address meaning that many cases that we'll deal with a very illiquid.


SERUNJOGI: So if you have to move money across countries in Africa, you know, Uganda to Nigeria, Uganda, Tanzania, Kenya, and Rwanda, there's a

liquidity issue you have to solve. And then there's a platform infrastructure issue, which means that some countries are mostly mobile

money infrastructure.

Others have mostly banking infrastructure, many have nothing. And so you have to make sure you have a system that can speak and communicate with all

those platforms. And then you have a device issue, which is, most people don't have the devices that can support apps that support a product like

ours quite well.

And so you have to address the compatibility issue. So it's a combination of all these things being worked together, in addition to on enterprising

and innovation solutions that we've built with our team and infrastructure that makes this possible. So it's not a one sort of, you know, silver

bullet type problem that gets solved by doing one thing.

It's a combination of all these things that we've been able to do over the last three and a half years, almost four years now. Those slowly start to

move the needle and make it more accessible, cost efficient activity for people to do, which is sending money across borders very easily, and I

think we're still a long way to go.

We've done the most and we've been able to move the needle quite a bit but we have so much more work ahead of us in each of those areas to make it

even easier and cheaper for people to send money across borders easily.


CHATTERLEY: I mean what timing as well, ahead of the pandemic? And you've moved incredibly fast and go back to the fall of 2020 and you began to let

users buy and sell Bitcoin, and Ether and were collecting trading fees, of course, as a result, which is additive to the business model as well.

Can I ask just how much activity that you've seen on that? And what you've seen in recent weeks? And are you getting people coming to you and asking

questions in light of the sheer amount of volatility that we've seen and the plunging prices as well, because this is sort of a two way street here

in terms of providing a functionality and assistance in trading these things? And then people losing a lot of money potentially too?

SERUNJOGI: Yes, you're absolutely right. The pandemic was, I think, for us a reminder of the importance of our product and platform. In many ways,

most people become even more dependent on the product of the pandemic because enter the recipients of remittances from another country, or their

business reliant on the product that much more.

But with regards to Crypto, I think it's a very exciting area for Africa as a whole. One of the things that I think many people particularly in the

West take for granted is the stability of currencies. When you look at many subs Saharan African countries, in relation to crypto currency, they

actually aren't that you know, different in terms of volatility.

So it's not that scary an idea to try to invest in something that's of a different asset type. And for us, you know, our approach to this has been -

we believe crypto currency has a role to play in the future of financial services.

And we work very closely with our central bank partners, to make sure that we are furthering their objectives. We're providing this in a very safe and

open manner, as opposed to having it be that something someone coming in if something is done under the table or in dark corners, or in unsafe


I think the role for crypto currency and platforms like ours, is to have it be out in the open, be provided in a safe manner and leverage the good

things about it things like being able to transfer value easily being able to make other financial products and instruments accessible to many people

in a very safe and not as volatile manner as most people sort of assume it to be all the time. So for us, we've seen tremendous growth and adoption of

this platform. And we expect much of the same way forward.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, you know what, of all of everything you said, I loved your point about illiquidity, or relative illiquidity and volatility, being

about perspective and where you are in the world and what your currency looks like?

People will also notice, I'm sure that you're coming, speaking to us from San Francisco, and we're barely scratching the surface of the journey that

you've been on in a very short space of time, but you're quite humorous about the challenges of raising capital. And now you've raised a lot of

money from FTX, from Capital, Bozos expeditions, I believe that's the first African investment that they've made as well, which is quite fascinating.

But you also learned a lot through this process. And some parts of me sad that you couldn't raise money in the continent of Africa, you had to come

to United States. And it's a challenge for lots of startups around the world that where you have to come. And I know you're trying to tackle this

now too.

SERUNJOGI: Absolutely.

CHATTERLEY: Just talk to me about that process, and why there needs to be more accessible on the continent?

SERUNJOGI: Yes, that's true. Maybe next time, we'll need more time to go through all of it.


SERUNJOGI: But in summary,

CHATTERLEY: Make it quick, my friend.

SERUNJOGI: We - as a company, we've raised over $300 million; we're now valued at over $2 billion. But that was a very difficult journey in the

beginning. And partly because most investors in the world Silicon Valley based investors don't really know much about Africa. So there's a very

steep learning curve, you have to take them through to see the opportunity.

But I think one of the very important roles a company like ours plays is that it shines a light on our space and that over time, entrepreneurs

coming out of Africa won't have to come to Silicon Valley to raise money.


SERUNJOGI: So I think eventually, that'll be something that more people can do. And we try to play a role in that as well. As a company, we are now

investing in younger entrepreneurs in the space. Personally, I and my Co- Founder, each personally invest our own money. We've invested over a million dollars, each of our own money in young entrepreneurs and great

ideas coming out of Africa.

Access to capital is a massive barrier for many entrepreneurs. And we think our company can play a significant role in helping solve this issue. But

you know we've been quite fortunate to work with the best investors in the world.

You mentioned Bozos expeditions, Jeff Bezos we're first - where he's first African investment. The same is true for all our investments - Dan

Kimberling at Desbiens, Ribbit, Capital FTX, one way ventures in Boston. So for us, that journey has been quite interesting because for each of our

investors, we've been their first investment in Africa.

And we think that plays a double role, which is obviously getting a company capitalized, but also showing them the opportunity and the importance of

supporting even more entrepreneurs those that are focusing on Africa as a space. I think it's a massive opportunity probably the biggest opportunity

in the world right now solving the under banked problem of financial services in Africa.


CHATTERLEY: I couldn't agree more with that. I've got 50 more questions for you. So we'll have to get you back. And there was - as you said $2 billion

valuation. I think you should have drunk that champagne that over your left shoulder there. Maybe you're saving it for the 3 billion--

SERUNJOGI: I'd like to do so. It's not the time to celebrate but we're fortunate about--

CHATTERLEY: I'm being told I've got it. I've got to say goodbye. Speak to again soon. Great to chat to you thank you!

SERUNJOGI: Thank you Julia.

CHATTERLEY: CEO and Co-Founder of Chipper Cash there. Thank you stay with "First Move".


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". As we explore the Tao of DAO. DAO is a brand new web 3.0 term, three little letters that could spell big

changes to the way companies operate thanks to the promise of Blockchain. As Anna Stewart reports in todays "Think Big".


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's another amazing day here in downtown Dubai--

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Anas Burtun and Danosch Zahedi started their crypto podcast show in 2021.

ANAS BURTUN, CO- FOUNDER ARTS DAO: So tell us a little bit about the DAO that you guys have put in place.

STEWART (voice over): This term DAO stands for a Decentralized Autonomous Organization. It's been a hot topic lately garnering attention on this

podcast and around the world. They're described as a group of people who come together usually online with a common goal and no centralized leader.

BURTUN: Think about DAO's as a new way to organize a company you know traditional companies have shareholders management and then employees the

idea behind a DAO is instead to empower all members of that organization to have a say.

STEWART (voice over): The two podcasters love the concept so much that they went from talking about DAOs to starting their own.

DANOSCH ZAHEDI, CO-FOUNDER, AND ARTS DAO: We believe in the hive mind, we believe that the community they have the best interest of the organization

in mind, people are seeing the value that they bring to the table.

STEWART (voice over): They say they've raised over $1.5 million this year, when they launched their company Arts DAO, an organization that curates NFT

Art, individuals hold a stake in their organization by owning a virtual token. And these tokens offer voting rights on company decisions. As an

alternative to traditional companies experts say DAO's offer more transparency, participation and trust among investors.

ADEL BELCAID, LOAD PARTNER, TECHNOLOGY AND MEDIA KEARNEY: The business rules are clear once smart contracts are published on the Blockchain, they

are irreversible nobody can change them. And this basically gives a high level of trust to stakeholders to basically work with the concept and do

business with the concepts

STEWART (voice over): Anas and Danosch are not alone. DAOs are popping up around the world some are charities fighting against climate change while

others are opening up fast food franchises.


STEWART (voice over): One even pulled together $14 million to bid on a copy of the U.S. Constitution. Experts are seeing a growing interest in DAO' s

recently, but caution that the concept still needs time to mature.

BELCAID: I think the jury is still out so for now, its niche applications. There are very clear use cases in crowd funding and asset management that

DAO's lend themselves particularly--

STEWART (voice over): It's still early days for this new corporate structure. Anas and Danosch are not waiting around. The two believed DAOs

will revolutionize the business landscape and that's why they're building now and spreading the word. Anna Stewart, CNN.


CHATTERLEY: And that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, there'll be on my Twitter and Instagram pages you can

search for @jchatterleycnn. In the meantime, "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next have a safe weekend.