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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Stoltenberg: We will Strengthen Forward Defenses; U.S., South Korean and Japanese Leaders Meet; Former Aide: Trump Fought Secret Service over going to Capitol; Citroen Adds EV and Combustion Engine Cars to Range; Mighty Jaxx Gets Phygital; Tesla Hiring Hits a Speed Bump. Aired 09-10a ET

Aired June 29, 2022 - 09:00   ET



JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: And that sends a clear message to all of us in the room from President Zelenskyy and - yes we are prepared.

They are fighting for their independence. But they're also fighting for values which are important for NATO fundamental for NATO, the sovereignty,

the territorial integrity of every nation, and therefore, this matter for our security.

Our focus now is to support Ukraine. This war will ask most of the wars at some stage and at the negotiating table. But it is important that Ukraine

is able to get an agreement on their terms, which is acceptable for Ukraine. And therefore, we know that there is a very close link between

what they can achieve around the negotiating table and their strength on the battlefield. And therefore our focus now is to support them on the

battlefield with many different types of lethal and non-lethal support. That is the focus and then of course, we have demonstrated today that

NATO's door remains open. And we also reiterate the decision made in Bucharest on membership for Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Madrid. You don't have a crystal ball. But I was wondering how much longer you think it's going to take for Finland and

Sweden to join the NATO since it's a pretty urgent situation. Thank you very much.

STOLTENBERG: Well, so far, this is the fastest Accession Protocol ever access and process ever. Because Finland, Sweden applied for membership in

May, and now at the end of the June, leaders invite them to become members and we will assign the Accession Protocol. And then what remains, of

course, is the ratification in 30 Parliaments I cannot speak on behalf or promise anything on behalf of 30 different Parliaments.

But the message in the room is that throughout the Alliance, there is a strong wheel to work with Parliament's so they can do the ratification as

soon as possible. So this has moved forward so far. And of course, I expect that the allies are ready to also ratify as soon as possible but the

different procedures in different countries. So this will take some times in different Parliaments.

DAVID AKIN, GLOBAL NEWS, CANADA: Thank you very much, Secretary General David Akin Global News. You're very gracious, greeting the Canadian Prime

Minister today, Secretary General before you have been very gracious greeting Canadian Prime Ministers. But our spending is just awful.

Decreased if you measure by GDP decreased in absolute terms are nowhere near the 2 percent. It's not your place.

But I wonder how might you can finance a Canadian public, a Canadian politician to spend more on defense and secondarily, what then might a

medium or smaller military power do contribute with some of this new focus new spheres of influence in China, in Asia, as well as the urgent crisis

here in Europe? Thank you.

STOLTENBERG: Of course, I expect all allies to meet the guidelines we have set, and we agreed them back in 2014, for the decade up to 2024. And since

then, the world has just become more dangerous. And I have been a politician myself for many years.

And I understand that it's always easier to invest in health in education infrastructure, instead of allocating money for defense, that's very easy

to understand. And that was the reason why a NATO allies should use defense spending, often the end of the Cold War. But if we reduce defense spending,

when tensions are going down, we have to be able to increase defense spending, when tensions are going up and when we live in a more dangerous


And therefore welcome the fact that all NATO allies have increased defense spending and added a lot. Not all allies have plans in place to be at 2

percent by 2024. But the vast majority had such plans. And more and more allies are actually meeting the 2 percent target or very close.

So of course, this is a message to all allies, including Canada, at the same time also welcomed the fact that Canada and other allies are providing

a lot of capabilities, contributions to NATO missions and operations. And Canada leads the battle group in Latvia I've been together with President

after the Prime Minister Trudeau and also with the defense of the Foreign Minister and also welcome the fact that Canada is not stepping up its

presence in Latvia. And of course, this also counts a lot when it comes to contributions to our collected events.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: OK, we will leave Jens Stoltenberg there the NATO Secretary General repeating much of what he said over the

past couple of days and endorsement of NATO allies of this new strategic concept that really does put Russia front and foremost as the most

significant direct threat to security.


CHATTERLEY: Of course it mentions China for the first time also interesting to hear him talk about their representation in air, sea, land and cyber of

course acknowledging in their new plans ahead that cyber security threats are a paramount. And we've seen that certainly in the war in Ukraine, they

talked about he talked about the comprehensive package for Ukraine mean more weaponry that NATO's commitment is unshakable.

And they've seen this mental shift. He also talked about the ramping up of forces well over he talked about 300,000 forces standing at the ready the

responsibility to this new security reality, the positioning pre- positioning of equipment, also having forces assigned to specific allies for the first time since the Cold War II.

And this idea that the spending commitment that 2 percent of GDP is now being seen as a flaw they've obviously spent, as he said this week already

$350 billion in terms of provision of weaponry and support more than was initially planned back in 2014.

Clarissa Ward, joins us now Clarissa much to discuss on this in terms of the repositioning of what NATO represents. But I think the big thing today

and the big achievement for NATO is the dropping of the veto by Turkey, allowing Finland and Sweden now to become a member. And it's just a matter

of time the ratification in 30 governments around the world now in order to get them to join huge for Russia in particular.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and you know, you heard President Biden earlier today Julia, saying that President

Putin when he launched his invasion into Ukraine was calling for the Finland --of countries around Russia. And instead, what he's getting is the

NATO isolation, that border between Russia and Finland some 800 miles long.

So this is significant the President Putin in the past has said that, you know, that they don't view it as a real security threat that Finland and

Sweden will now be joining NATO, although he did add the caveat that if any weaponry was moved to either of those countries, that it would become a an

issue, which would need a very deliberate response.

But make no bones about it. President Putin wanted to rewrite the conventional post-Cold War European security agreement. And what we are

seeing today is that he has done that, although he has not done it in the way in which he perhaps would have liked to or certainly in the way that he

said he would have wanted to.

And you only need to look at this new Strategic Concept is NATO doctrine, which has changed enormously from the last one, which was penned in 2010,

which described Russia as a potential strategic partner, and which now, in its newest incarnation, calls Russia the greatest threat to NATO allies.

It does go on to say importantly, Julia, though, that NATO does not seek any confrontation with Russia, nor does it pose any meaningful threat to

Russia. But you can imagine that President Putin is watching this summit playing out and is certainly somewhat concerned by what he is seeing.

CHATTERLEY: It's fascinating, isn't it, as you pointed out with Finland, that 830 mile border with Russia, and obviously the Secretary General was

asked about permanent bases in Finland and Sweden. And he sort of avoided the question and said, look, the doors open the message here is the door is


And Putin didn't succeed in closing that door. And in fact, the opposite one of the other things he was asked about. And I want to get your

perspective on was Zelenskyy. President Zelenskyy is address and the comment that he made was Has Ukraine not paid enough for NATO entry?

And that it was a question posed, of course, directly in that press conference. And the inference being looked more support is great, but

obviously, NATO entry would make such a huge and significant dispense in this war.

WARD: Absolutely, and earlier we did hear Stoltenberg reaffirming NATO's open door policy, but there is a sort of unsaid understanding that it would

be unfeasible at this stage for Ukraine to join in to join the alliance. You can see the desperation there.

When you hear the Zelenskyy's passion play, what does it take for us to be able to join NATO because for Ukraine, this is an issue, not just of help

us support, you know, the sort of violation of a sovereign nation but it's also about we are protecting you from possible further aggressions pushing

further into Europe, from Russia.

At the same time, I don't think anybody here expects for Ukraine to be put on any kind of a fast track to join NATO. And Ukraine understands that

notwithstanding the formidable display of support both in terms of morale and in terms of weaponry and in terms of financial support that Ukraine is

facing a very serious challenge in the East particularly in the Donbas region


WARD: As this war goes on, Russia has got a certain degree of momentum on its side; it has been making significant gains. They've been slow, they've

been incremental, they've been plotting, there has been a large rate of attrition, if you like.

But at the same time, there's an understanding more broadly, that even if some kind of a ceasefire agreement was made, if Ukraine was willing to

concede some territory, the fear is that Russia would just simply hit the pause button for a while, reconstitute, regroup before continuing,

essentially, potentially further into Ukraine, and potentially even elsewhere.

So you can understand why President Zelenskyy feels that frustration and feels that this is the pivotal moment, he understands that it's going to

get more challenging as the months go on, to keep all his allies and supporters on side with rising energy prices, and also rising food prices.

And all many of these leaders facing political challenges at home Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Even as the Secretary General says that commitment is unshakable, and I "The tragedy here is the Ukraine War" was the catalyst

for increasing bolstering the security arrangements for NATO members, but Ukraine, on the other side, paying a terribly heavy price. Clarissa Ward,

thank you for joining us great to chat to you on.

OK, as Clarissa Ward saying to the deadly Russian strike now on a shopping mall in Ukraine and new video showing the moment of Russian missiles

struck, according to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, at least 18 Civilians are known to have died, CNN cannot independently verify this


But the shopping mall has been destroyed and you're seeing images of what remains there. CNN Scott McLean has the latest from Kyiv and Scott

devastating images of this attack.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and you know, those pictures where you see the actual strike is absolutely stunning to watch stunning and

terrifying to watch. And it is not surprising then when you see the pictures of the aftermath, where my colleagues and Salma Abdelaziz is right


And you see the shopping mall, which is really just a shell of its former self, if you can even call it that it is literally just a pile of twisted

metal where you have 300 workers going through it trying to dismantle that mold, trying to make it safe also looking for bodies. As you mentioned, 18

people killed 54 hospitalized, we are told most of them serious.

And what we've also learned though is that 11 body parts have also been found during this search operation. What they need to figure out now is how

many bodies those 11 body parts actually belong to this job of dismantling this area is also quite dangerous.

Two or three of the workers have actually been hospitalized from falling debris because they've been sort of picking through this area because it is

so unstable at this stage of the game. And so it is not a pretty sight by any stretch of the imagination. The Russians claim though, that they were

actually aiming at a cache of weapons that was stored nearby foreign weapons.

And this was a legitimate military target in the mall was only sort of collateral damage. The Ukrainians obviously see this very differently. They

say that the mall they must have known that this was an intentional target.

And as for what was next door, they say that it was a facility for manufacturing and storing parts to go toward machines that repair the

roads, totally normal civilian tasks only no military purposes at all.

You can think though just for a second Julia that this missile that we're talking about that struck was capable of carrying a 1000 kilogram payload

absolutely massive and they're worth 1000. We're told by the President, people inside that mall before those air raid sirens went off.

So thankfully, the vast majority of people it seems managed to get to safety, but obviously, some didn't. And at this point, those workers who

are picking through that Rubble, this is a recovery operation. They do not expect to find anyone still alive.

CHATTERLEY: In America that more lives weren't lost, to your point, Scott McLean thank you. Now back to NATO and around meeting on the sidelines,

President Biden in three way talks with Japan's Prime Minister and the President of South Korea on Wednesday. It's the first time a NATO summit

has included representatives from Indo Pacific nations as the alliance seeks to counter China's influence.

Selina Wang joins us on this China's long road Selina, back to her native style alliances in the Asia Pacific region, something of course that the

United States has denied but at a time when China is specifically being pointed out in terms of the strategic concerns of NATO going forward, you'd

back to the very least disquiet in Beijing what do they have to say about this?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia, no surprise. But this all makes Beijing feel more uneasy and threatened.


WANG: They are not pleased to see the presence of this historic presence of countries like Japan and South Korea at this NATO Summit. And they've had

some very harsh words and state media criticizing this for creating this Cold War environment. And I want to read to you this statement from China's

foreign ministry saying, "China pursues an independent foreign policy of peace. How could China be labeled a systemic challenge?

We solidly urge NATO to immediately stop spreading false and provocative statements about China, NATO should quote stop seeking to disrupt Asia and

the whole world after it has disrupted Europe". Now the Foreign Ministry, they're referring to the expectation that NATO is going to, for the first

time label China as a systemic challenge and its policy guidelines for the coming decade.

This harsher language from NATO the harsher language from G7, the Quad Alliance as well as the broadening support the budding administration is

making with allies in Asia. All of that is making China feel like well, the U.S. is trying to suppress its rise. It is trying to contain China. This is

despite the U.S. repeatedly saying that it is not trying to start a new Cold War.

It is not trying to create an Asian NATO. It is not trying to create these hostile regional bloc's, but the new geopolitical reality is that China is

increasingly joining hands with Russia. In opposition to the west, China has repeatedly refused to denounce and condemn Russia's invasion of


In fact, they recently called each other in a No Limits partnership between China and Russia. So despite these harsh critical words from China, they

are feeling uneasy, as I said and threatened. But there is, however, a limit to how far these Asian members want to go who are in attendance at

NATO, they are still walking a fine line here, because China, for these countries is a key trading partner and they do not want to antagonize

Beijing too much because China has before and could again in the future use that trading relationship to inflict economic pain.

And even among the NATO member country, there is some disagreement about how China should be handled, some of them think that the focus should

squarely be on Russia, and that China falls outside of their security priorities.

But what is very evident here is that Russia's invasion of Ukraine, this new geopolitical landscape, that it is creating a greater sense of urgency

for these democratic allies that they need to more effectively coordinate not only against the threat from Russia, but also from China, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Brilliant analysis and I agree, I but I don't think you can have the conversation about Russia without trying in some way to include

China given their influence energy alone never mind anything else? A diplomatic dance and a very delicate one at that Selina Wang, thank you.

OK, straight ahead on "First Move" gas or EV you decide as Citroen CEO gives us his roadmap on an all-electric future or not. And some digital

education of lending at the physical and the digital in the world collectible toys with Singapore's mighty Jaxx that's all coming up stay

with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! And turning now to the investigation into the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol and to a key

question about that day, did Donald Trump and those closest to him know that the crowd that they had assembled might turn violent?

On Tuesday, public testimony from a woman who worked in the White House just steps from the Oval Office left little doubt about the answer to that

question as CNN's Jessica Schneider has the details.


CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: That evening was the first moment that I remember feeling scared and nervous for

what could happen on January 6th, and I had a deeper concern for what was happening with the planning aspects of it.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Cassidy Hutchinson chronicling the days and hours leading up to the January 6th Capitol

attack, the former senior aide to then White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows were calling a meeting between Rudy Giuliani and Mark Meadows on

January 2nd.

HUTCHINSON: I remember looking at him saying, Rudy, could you explain what's happening on the 6th? He has responded something to the effect of

going to the Capitol going to be great. The President is going to be there. He's going to look powerful. I went back up to our office, and I found Mr.

Meadows in his office on the couch. He was scrolling through his phone.

I remember leaning against the doorway and saying it's an interesting conversation as Rudy, Mark sounds like we're going to go to the Capitol. He

didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of there's a lot going on Cass. But I don't know things might get real, real bad on

January 6th.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): The White House Counsel's Office was gravely concerned about then President Donald Trump's speech and desire to march to

the Capitol according to Hutchinson.

HUTCHINSON: Mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the Capitol Cassidy keep in touch with me. We're going to

get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): As the rioters were storming the Capitol, Hutchinson testified Trump was cheering them on agreeing with the chance to

"Hang Mike Pence".

HUTCHINSON: And Mark had responded something to the effect of you heard him Pat, he thinks Mike deserves that he doesn't think they're doing anything


SCHNEIDER (voice over): She says Cipollone replied.

HUTCHINSON: People are going to die and the bloods going to be on your effing hands.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): Hutchinson testifying in the clearest detail to date about Trump's desire to lead the crowd to the Capitol, despite

warnings that many presidents were armed. Hutchinson recalled that before the President took the stage, he insisted that metal detectors be removed,

and individuals with weapons be allowed in to fill the crowd and eventually marched to the Capitol.

HUTCHINSON: He was very concerned about the shot, meaning the photograph that we would get because the rally space wasn't full. I was in the

vicinity of a conversation where I overheard the President say something to the effect of, you know, I don't effing care that they have weapons.

They're not here to hurt me take the effing - away. Let my people and they can march the Capitol from here.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): Hutchinson said Trump took the stage thinking that Meadows was still figuring out a way for Trump to go to the Capitol after

his speech. She added that Trump got into his SUV after his speech, and was seen in this video presented by the committee driving away. Hutchinson

recalling a conversation back at the White House would then Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato about an alleged altercation in the SUV between Trump and

his Secret Service Agent Robert Engel when he learned that they would not be taking him to the Capitol.

HUTCHINSON: The President says something to the effect of I'm the effing president take me up to the Capitol now to which Bobby responded, sir, we

have to go back to the West Wing. President reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel Mr. Engel grabbed his arm said

air you need to take your hand off this steering wheel.


HUTCHINSON: We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel and

Mr. Ornato recounted the story to me his motion towards his clavicles.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): A secret service official familiar with the matter told CNN that Ornato denies telling Hutchinson that Trump grabbed the

steering wheel or agent. The Secret Service notified the Select Committee after Hutchinson's testimony that the agents involved are prepared to

testify under oath that the incident did not occur the Committee standing behind Hutchinson's account while encouraging others with information to

come forward.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Look, I believe Cassidy Hutchinson; I think she's a very, very smart, very capable, very honest individual. She has no

incentive to make up something that isn't true.


CHATTERLEY: OK, let me give you a quick look at what we're seeing for U.S. stock markets at this moment. Futures are trying to move higher after a

week session Tuesday that saw the NASDAQ tumbled some three percentage points investors are waiting to hear what the heads now of the Federal

Reserve the European Central Bank and the Bank of England have to say about their rate hike plans during a forum in Portugal.

We'll call it a Portuguese powwow that's taking place this hour so we'll keep you abreast of any comments that get made there. Now after the break,

they were the first to bring independent suspension to mass produced cars, as well as disc brakes and headlights that see around corners. So with a

reputation for innovation why is Citroen still launching cars with petrol engine capacity? Well, CEO is up next we'll discuss.



CHATTERLEY: Happy smiles and fist pumps there over at the New York Stock Exchange. Welcome back to "First Move"! And actually U.S. stocks little

changed in early trade despite their enthusiasm. Oh there we have popped around three tenths of 1 percent so perhaps it is helping it.

It is a common picture though after yesterdays across the board sell off as I mentioned just before the break that saw the NASDAQ fall almost 3

percent. Over in Central Fed Chair Jay Powell saying at a summit that the U.S. economy remains in strong shape and a soft landing remains possible.

We do hope so but new concern of course, over the health of the U.S. consumer.

Just take a look at this no bed, no bath, just the beyond for the CEO of Bed Bath and beyond the turnaround specialist Mark Triton being shown the

door after dismal first quarter results, with sales plunging some 25 percent shares there plunging as you can see actually now we're down around

18 percent in early trade.

OK to EV or not to EV Citroen, the French Automaker is hedging its bets offering electric and combustion engines in two new models. The all

electric EC 4X is launching today alongside the regular C 4X, which comes with petrol and diesel drive trains. The upside combustion engines offer

more range but engines and transmissions gobble up space and weight of course too.

Citroen's brand heritage dates back to the 1930s with a reputation for innovation and quirky design. Let's not forget they came up with the two CV

and the DX whether that image will be maintained under its parents to Lunaz.

Well, we can find out with Vincent Cobee is the CEO and he joins us now. Sir, fantastic to have you on the show! Lots of questions in that

introduction and talk to us about your latest releases what do we need to understand what differentiates these cars in this segment in particular?

And can you give us a sense of the price? Vincent, can you hear me?

VINCENT COBEE, CEO CITROEN: Yes, I can hear you.

CHATTERLEY: Good. I was worried that I'd lost you there. Talk to us about your latest releases. What do we need to understand --?

COBEE: You lost me but I'm back.

CHATTERLEY: I'm very glad you're back. This is the joy of life TV. Talk to me about your latest releases. And can you give me a sense of the price and

what differentiates them?

COBEE: So I'm connecting with you from Istanbul, Turkey. We just had a launch of a new vehicle under Citroen brand is called VC 4X that vehicle is

basically targeting a variety of needs from 100 percent electric mobility, both personal and professional in the northern part of Europe, we launch it

as 100 percent electric solution in 14 countries in the northern part of Europe.

All the way to here in Turkey, where this vehicle sitting at 4.6 meter long providing comfort modernity, space will be highly inspirational status

vehicle for the up and coming classes. So that car is a very strong vehicle for Citroen to both accelerate electrification in Europe, but also expand

geographically around the Mediterranean Sea and across the Middle East and Africa in particular.

CHATTERLEY: Makes perfect sense to me, can you give me a sense of the price, even just a hint?

COBEE: Today, let's be clear, we already have a C4 the C4X will complement via for being closer to being longer providing a very substantial boots

being most interested, rented and comfortable. So if you start from the C4 vehicle, currently, it's on sale, the price varies depending on countries

between, let's say 25 to 26,000 Euros as introversion all the way to 37 for a fully electric version.

The C4X slightly bigger, more functional vehicle will be priced marginally above C4. So that gives a window for you who will come in gasoline and

diesel for number of markets 100 percent electric for most markets and exclusively electric in some markets.

CHATTERLEY: What fascinates me and it cuts to exactly what you're saying there is where you stand on this EV versus combustion engine split in the

future? I mean, the model that the parent company still antes and therefore.

You guys are following is that you're creating a model of a car and it can have a combustion engine, or it can have an EV engine. The problem is for

an EV buyer that you're creating a lot of space for an engine that ultimately isn't put in the car.

They've got a battery in there. So you're giving up a lot of the benefits just in terms of space and capacity that you would get in an EV does that

work for the future is this you on the fence over what direction we go in or just providing optionality?


COBEE: You know, I think the word you're using of optionality is very much correct. We need to be realistic. Today we're in a transition phase. So

some countries in Europe, let's take Norway, Sweden, we're already 90 percent electric 100 percent electric vehicles as new car sales.

If you move to South of Europe, the percentage we talking about might be 10 to 15 percent. If you're talking to countries and resolver, inside of a

Mediterranean, we are talking maybe 1 or 2 percent. So what want to do is be there to accompany this transition, the story will be different 10 years

down the road.

But today, we need to be there to accompany the transition on ready for electrification market we sell vehicles as 100 percent electric. And

honestly, it's exactly the same vehicle C4X same styling, same roominess, same dynamic performance, same modality of equipment, in countries that are

entering an accelerated phase of transition let's take France, Spain, Italy, will send very good both in combustion engine and electric. And in

next year's, you will see we 100 percent electric percentage grow. And maybe at one point, maybe three, four years down the road, we'll stop

selling combustion engines.

In a country like Turkey, where I'm sitting today, sales of electric vehicles might be only 5 percent of the volume. But we will still make the

offer because this is the never turn back type of transition. Once you've tried it, you stay electric.

So we'll conquer customer one by one will reassure provide solution. And once the customers have adopted it with grow five years down the road, it

might be 30 percent. And the next generation will be then fully electric. As you see, we have a responsibility as a carmaker to remove hurdles to

transition our company the societal expectation for sustainable world.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, in an interview need to be all to everyone. I guess that's the vision. I mean, I see under still anticipating by 2030 you're saying

look, Europe's going to be 100 percent EV, the United States is going to be 50 percent. So even in these considered developed markets, it's the split

and the difference is huge.

What about India very quickly, because I know you see this as a growth market too? What do you see as the split even over the next five years in

terms of what you're providing there combustion versus EV out of interest?

COBEE: So, yes, the point you're raising about India is particularly interesting. As you know, first, Citroen is shifting gears in India. We've

been selling C5 aircraft for quite some time, and we are starting production of a new C3 today or tomorrow, exactly as we speak. We'll be

launching starting sales of a new C3 in a month. And we already said that this new C3 which starts with combustion engine will have a fully electric

option from the early days of 23.

So we are starting this flywheel of electrification. Why would India move towards electrification for these two reasons? One, regulatory there is a

corporate average fuel consumption regulation in India, which will force every car manufacturer to offer fully electric solution and we will be

joining that group.

But another one is cost and efficiency because in every market around the world, especially when gasoline prices are going through the roof, we will

all discover progressively that fully electric vehicles are not only quiet without vibration extremely pleasant to drive capable to be charging your

house but also they can be economically relevant.

And that's what we aiming to do in India. And you might be surprised in the years to come by the speed at which at least some segments some customers

in India are switching towards electrification.

CHATTERLEY: We shall see very quickly because I have one minute left before I start getting shouted out. And that happens a lot on this show. The AMI

"The Beach Buggy" 50 units were available you sold out in less than 18 minutes, I believe.

And then it spewed a PR campaign where you were talking directly to Elon Musk saying sorry, Elon, the only way to get one is to buy us. You will

surely be on Mars before you get one. So I have two questions. One is Citroen up for sale? And two, why does the Elon Musk need an AMI? Answer

the first question first.

COBEE: One of the beauties of running Citroen is that it's a very creative brand. It has a lot of freedom. So let's say we enjoyed ourselves. We

showed AMI as a concept for Biggie, maybe six, seven months ago and we said you know what, let's go for it. So we were able to make 50 we sold them in

17 minutes.


COBEE: And we were very happy to tell the word you know what we have such a great and hot product but it goes its flies off the shelf. Now, we couldn't

resist the idea of saying you know some things are so scarce and so in high demand that even the richest people on earth can't access it. So this was -

we thought it was very much in the spirit of Citroen and for sure if we get more with Alpha One Two alone.


CHATTERLEY: I was about to say if he calls I'm sure I know what's going to happen? Great to chat to you come back soon please, fun! The CEO of Citroen

there. Thank you. Alright, still to come let's get physical or should I say digital? I speak to the CEO of the Toy Company bringing NFT's to life we'll

explain it doesn't worry? Stay with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Now what started out as a love for collectible toys has grown into a multimillion dollar business

connecting the physical with the digital and now with eyes on the Metaverse too?

Founded in 2012 Singapore based Mighty Jaxx Designs, digital collectibles, real world versions of digital creations, each toy is embedded with an NFC

chip that means the buyer can identify and authenticate the item. Now with all the data stored on a Block chain. The company has partnered with brands

including DC Comics, Hasbro, Disney and Nickelodeon, shipping millions of items to fans all across the world. And joining us now is Jackson Aw. He's

the Founder and CEO of Mighty Jaxx.

Jackson, fantastic to have you on the show! I have so many questions for you. I don't even know where to start. You grew up liking collectibles, and

you collected from around 17. Then you looked on YouTube on how to make things then you went to China and saw how toys were made and came back home

and we're like I think I can do this. There's something here. Go from there you borrowed money from your parents to do it?

JACKSON AW, FOUNDER AND CEO OF MIGHTY JAXX: Yes, so I've always been a collector my whole life. You know, I've been collecting up brains, the

books that have my favorite artists. And that really spurred me on to want to create something tangible, you know, so that's why I went down and

figure out how things are made, came back and created our first product.

CHATTERLEY: Describe the moment because it was a long road even to the point where you had a meeting with DC Comics and they were like, yes, OK,

we'll do this. And they sent you over a contract the next day and you were then creating for DC Comics. I mean, that's huge.

AW: That was an amazing journey. We couldn't quite get on - and we had to go down to Burbank in person meet with the kid on global toys and really

just shook on it and that was really a leap of faith from both sides. And I'm just glad that opportunity was given to us. It was dreams come true to

work with DC Comics.


CHATTERLEY: I mean that was in 2015. And I think that really was the beginning of the huge acceleration. Let's take a step back and just explain

to our audience the connection between the physical toys that we're talking about the digital imprint that they have with this chip that allows

verification and authentication which I think is so important when you're talking about collectibles?

And then you can tie that to block chain technology. And what that means today, because that's relatively new. I mean, that was 2018 and you were

still going, what the heck is block chain, which most of us is doing today? So just connected, digital, physical, and then we'll push it on to NFT's

non fungible tokens.

AW: Yes. You know, in 2018, block chain was introduced to us, you know, our advisors, were saying that this is one of the best use case for block chain

on a consumer front because for collectibles, they often appreciate in value in a secondary marketplace. So we have to authenticate whether it's

real or not right?

So then we did that we create a patent pending process where the chip was placed inside the product. And we allow users to register the provenance of

it, and that is on the chain. And so that creates a really a long line of ownership transference as the item move on from one owner to the other.

So one of those projects that we work on is something like this is Tiny Tina Wonderlands is an AAA game from gearbox and 2K. So with this chip

inside, it actually delivers the code that you require to play the game so that's how that's one of the way that it works.

CHATTERLEY: So that's sort of integrating a physical item with the digital world that sort of takes us beyond non fungible tokens. And that takes us

perhaps into the Metaverse, too, but I just want to take a step back. Who's buying that? Jackson who is your buyer? Who is your consumer?

AW: I would say basically people who have not really grow up?


AW: Pop culture, elements that we grew up with, right? And now that we have, you know certain disposable income to spend on things that we really

love them, perhaps we can get it when we were a kid. IE and point like a person like me, and then we would go on and buy collectibles to enrich our

life and our surroundings, right?

I think that's quite common to do one to have something that reminds you of a time that is simpler. And so what we created, we do it for collectors

and, and people who love things with passion.

CHATTERLEY: I like your point about reminding of times that were simpler. OK, so tie this to NFT's non fungible tokens because we've talked about

this on the show and this idea of whatever it is really a piece of digital art, for example, enshrining the data on the block chain, whether it's

onward sales, or even just allowing authentication is a critical part of that? Tie this to NFT's, and then you can push it forward to what role and

what part you see Mighty Jaxx playing in the Metaverse?

AW: Every piece that we work on every product that we work on, it's to enrich the collectors experience, right? So from end to end, digital to

physical to digital, that's what we're trying to create for the whole journey as a fan experience.

So when we started doing NFT, sometime late 2020, I would say it's already part of our process, because we have to create the digital version of it

before it goes into a physical manifestation, right?


AW: So when we introduced that, as the initial product, a digital asset or content that the consumers and collectors could have at first, then we

begin to create exclusive items that they could then have the opportunity of procuring.

And so from the digital asset, it goes to the physical asset. And after that the physical product like this would then release even more content

that is related to the IP, or the games or sports IPs that you love. And that's how we really we would do the whole chain.

CHATTERLEY: And then that is available in the Metaverse the options of what you've gone from digital to physical and then sort of back to digital in a

way. I get it. Jackson, you're clearly doing something that you love. Are you profitable? Are you making money?

AW: So hey, this--

CHATTERLEY: Early days.

AW: We have always been profitable since you know the early days of 15, 16, 17, and 18.


AW: The reason why because we never took outside money or venture money and do 2017, 2018 and I want to create a company and a business that has

longevity. I want to do it though right where if I could put it that way.


CHATTERLEY: Yes. The only money you took was from your parents, they must be very proud. What do they say about it and had to pay them back?

AW: So we came from - I did pay them back.

CHATTERLEY: Just checking.

AW: OK. That's good. But you know they come from my average family. So the money was actually from maxing out my parent's credit cards, because I

don't have credit score and that how it came to be.

But I think for them, it's really, you know, I'm a guy that couldn't quite get it right academicals, you know, and because of that, I think I must

have set the bar pretty low. And so when I say that, OK, we're going to do a toy company, we're going to do a collectible company, they were like, OK,

and that sounds reasonable enough.

CHATTERLEY: Your humility is incredibly refreshing in a founder, that still a business likes this. Jackson, we're going to keep in contact and you're

going to be my expert now NFTs, and digital, physical digital and translation great to have you with us!

AW: Thanks for having me.

CHATTERLEY: Jackson there Founder and CEO of Mighty Jaxx, thank you! OK, coming up, Tesla CEO Elon Musk taking the wheels of his driverless car unit

as hiring hit a speed bump that story next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Elon Musk proving once again that Tesla's hiring is not on autopilot. Reports say the company is lying off

some 200 people in its driverless car division autonomous perhaps not synonymous with runaway spending anymore.

Paul R. La Monica joins me now. Paul I don't think there's any message here about their commitment to driverless technology. They've shifted a lot of

employees, I believe already to Palo Alto to New York, Buffalo in particular, and they've said they're going to cut templates into the

salaried workforce and bump up hourly salaried hourly workers. Is that the message the real take away from this prune?

PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNN REPORTER: Yes, I think the message Julia is that clearly Tesla, like most industrial companies right now they're worried

about where the economy is headed. And we've seen Elon Musk have these concerns, talking about the super bad feeling that he has about the

economy, warning of a potential recession.

Tesla already saying too many of its employees that they need to be showing up in the office or they're going to assume that they have been, you know,

that they're not going to be coming back to work. And I think that right now, there are clear indications that demand might be falling for luxury

goods like pricey electric vehicles in the wake of all these worries about inflation, and a possible global economic slowdown, maybe even a recession.

So not a huge surprise to see Tesla making these reported job cuts and it's unfortunate that you know, not all of those workers in San Mateo California

we'll be able to make the move to Palo Alto or Buffalo which is obviously a much further trip from Silicon Valley.


CHATTERLEY: Yes very tough for them. And the suggestion was as well that they hadn't realized as well that they were potentially on the line here,

which is always sad to hear for any work, I think in these moments in these economic times. Paul while I've got you any news on Twitter?

MONICA: What's that oh, with Musk and Twitter?


MONICA: He's interesting. He has been silent on Twitter for the past few days. And I think that's led to speculation that maybe he is in a sort of

quiet period on Twitter as he tries to figure out what the next move is going to be?

Twitter obviously wants to buy at that buyout at 54.20 a share but I think Elon Musk if he can prove that he is the world's richest person and is a

savvy wealth manager, he's going to try and I think knock that price down because doesn't look like in the face of this market in this economy that

Twitter at 54.20 makes a lot of sense.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I thought that he was just preparing for a monster birthday party for the last week. Paul R La Monica, thank you! That's it

for the show. "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next. I'll see you tomorrow.