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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Justice Department Moves to Unseal Mar-a-Lago Search Warrant; Argentina Hikes Key Interest Rate to 69.5 Percent; Two more Grain Ships Sail from Ukrainian Black Sea Port; Strive Urges U.S. Corporations to Focus on Core Business; Drought Declared in Parts of England; Antarctic Glaciers have Lost 12 Trillion Tons of Ice Since 1997. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired August 12, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move", this Friday. TGIF, the pledge to get to you before the weekend begins.
Including the war over the warrant Donald Trump saying he won't block the release of the Mar-a-Lago search document.
Plus, fresh reports on exactly why federal officials launched Monday's urgent raid? We'll be live in Washington with all the latest details plus,
as a fragile truce in the Black Sea allows desperately needed Ukrainian grain to be shipped. We'll get an update from the Deputy Minister of
Agriculture on plans to scale up those exports.
And an ESG OMG head of asset management firms strive says companies should dump ESG mandates and put profits before politics. We'll discuss it's a
bigger story than that. But that's the top line and from ESG to a high Wall Street open we do see futures in the green with a major averages on target
for another week of gains.
Europe as you can also see there in the green too. Stocks on the margin with the first tantalizing hints this week perhaps that the U.S. inflation
rate may just may have hit peak, encouraging inflation numbers and how they might affect central bank policy just one of the big themes for global
investors to continue to watch.
With apologies again to none other than Albert Einstein, here's my highly unscientific theory of what's driving sentiment. As we speak my second
annual and updated "Chatterley Theory of Market Relativity" it starts with the recent stock market propulsion plus continued consumer consumption and
no sign really of job market dysfunction minus negatives like the second straight quarter of GDP reduction, and the ongoing Fed rate hike, liquidity
suction, all that equals.
Still no automatic recession assumption plus the U.S. economy as a highly confusing and critical junction the bottom line equation I think is E=MC,
do not be scared, but be prepared. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
OK. Let's get to our top story now. We're learning more details about Monday's unprecedented FBI search of Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home. The
Washington Post reports federal agents were looking for classified documents relating to nuclear weapons.
A judge has given the Former President's legal team until 3 pm to respond to the Justice Department's motion to unseal the search warrant and details
of what the FBI took away. Overnight, Trump said that he would not oppose the release of those details.
Gabby Orr joins us now Gabby, great to have you with us! So 3 pm is the deadline for Trump's legal team to say whether or not they're willing to
hand it over. But it's the details it's been reported by "The Washington Post" on what exactly may have been at Mar-a-Lago that I think is of
GABBY ORR, CNN REPORTER: Yes, we've learned overnight that there might have been records kept at Mar-a-Lago related to nuclear weapons or nuclear
codes. Now, of course, former President Donald Trump took to truth social, his social media platform to deny this and call this a hoax saying that
there was not anything related to nuclear weapons at Mar-a-Lago.
His attorney Christina Bob was also on FOX News yesterday, claiming that she was not aware of any nuclear weapons, but we don't know what were in
those documents that were or were in those boxes that were carried away by FBI agents when they searched the President's primary residence in Palm
Beach on Monday.
What we might learn today is what was in the warrant that precipitated that search at Mar-a-Lago. You mentioned that the judge has given DOJ until 3
o'clock today to get back to them on whether or not Donald Trump's attorneys plan to oppose the release of this warrant.
Right now, based on the former President's reaction, we do expect them too OK, the release of this warrant and also that inventory list of what
exactly was seized during the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago.
And I would just want to read you quickly, a statement that President Trump sent out last night, saying that he is saying not only will I not oppose
the release of documents related to this, I am going a step further by encouraging the immediate release of those documents.
So, it all signs point to the former President and his attorneys moving forward to have this warrant and that inventory list released although we
won't know for another six hours up until that 3 pm deadline.
ORR: If something changes in the course of those 6 hours that could prevent them from actually wanting those documents released, but again, right now
all signs point to having those items released.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, a key moment and of course, it could come any time before that, too. But as you said, 3 pm Eastern Time is the deadline. We're
talking around 6 hours from now, Gabby, Orr, great to have you with us, thank you for that.
Now, the U.N. is warning of a grave situation at Ukraine's main nuclear power plant after reports of fresh shelling on Thursday. It's calling for
an immediate inspection of the power station, Europe's largest nuclear plant, which is currently under Russian control. David McKenzie joins us
now. David, it's a consistent concern from the Ukrainians about the risks surrounding these nuclear power plants but for the U.N. now to weigh in
even more concerning, I think.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, it's very concerning. And the IAEA, the Atomic Energy Agency has been warning
about potentially catastrophic consequences for some time now. They went to the head of that agency went to the U.N. Security Council, reiterating that
anything is possible at this point.
They say that at the moment in that vast nuclear power plant to the south of where I'm standing, there isn't the immediate danger in their words of a
radiation leak or Fallout. But that it could change at any moment, just a relatively short time ago, and the interior ministry here in Ukraine,
saying they don't have, quote, and adequate control over that site.
They've had technicians, obviously, Julia moving back and forth. And those stayed at that plan to try and keep it going, despite the fact that the
Russians have controlled it since March. And have been hiding military assets or sheltering military assets at the scene, which is obviously a
very dangerous scenario.
When you combine the military and nuclear reactors at the U.N. Security Council, you had these dueling statements from the Ukrainian and Russian
side. Here's the Ukrainian Ambassador.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGIY KYSLYTSYA, UKRAINIAN PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE TO THE U.N.: Dear colleagues, none of us can stop the wind if it carries radiation. But
together, we are capable of stopping a terrorist state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: And if you listen to the Russian Ambassador, it's striking how his language is so similar to the Ukrainians, but blaming Ukrainians for
shelling the plot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VASSILY NEBENZIA, RUSSIAN PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE TO THE U.N.: We repeatedly warned our Western colleagues that if they didn't talk some
sense into the key regime, then it would take the most monstrous and irrational steps.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: Now the issue here is that both sides are blaming each other for this the getting to the truth is of course, difficult. And we do know that
the Russia in this conflict has frequently used obfuscation and outright lies to describe what they are doing. The other ambassadors at the unit
U.N. Security Council reminding everyone that it was Russia that invaded Ukraine and occupied the site breaking any number of nuclear treaties to
have people held their hostage.
The reality now though, is the site is under occasional if not constant bombardment. It's a very large area. So far the nuclear reactors themselves
haven't been threatened. But the IAEA tried to get inside there and inspect the site that just hasn't happened, despite assurances from the Russian
CHATTERLEY: Yes, that inspection now all the more vital. David McKenzie, thank you so much for that report. And stay with "First Move" for the
latest on grain shipments to from Ukraine and how quickly they can be ramped up. We'll be speaking to the deputy agriculture minister later in
For now, we'll move on it was once dubbed Asia's world city but troubling new numbers point to a diminished uncertain future for Hong Kong. After
years of social upheavals strict COVID crackdowns the number of people moving out is so great that even the city's government is being forced to
acknowledge it as Kristie Lu Stout reports.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDNET (voice over): Hong Kong is reporting a record drop in population over the past 12 months; over 113,000 residents
have left the city that represents a population decline of about 1.6 percent.
This is the second year in a row that the population has contracted. And if you look at the chart, you'll see that it is the steepest population drop
on record since at least 1961. So why is this happening? Well, I post that question to a migration expert at the University of Hong Kong.
LUCY JORDAN, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF HONG KONG: The census gives us an early indication of this, you know that we are witnessing historic
departure the result of the social unrest in the social movement here in Hong Kong and then followed by COVID, you know, as it spread across the
And of course, we still sit here in the present moment, the only part of the world China and Hong Kong, you know, as a part of China that is still
living under, you know, the kinds of restrictions for entry, which of course, he's going to bar people from coming back.
STOUT (voice over): Experts say Hong Kong's changing political landscape, as well as its strict zero COVID policy have prompted many people to make
the hard decision to leave the city for over 7 million residents here. We've had to endure some of the toughest pandemic rules on the planet,
effectively isolating this once thriving international business and logistics hub. Just a few months ago in March, we spoke to a few Hong
Kongers about why they wanted to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Hong Kong used to be one of the best places to be in every single aspect in general. And now it's losing a lot of the
agile is authentication.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we don't need nothing will change. You cannot change the government.
STOUT (voice over): The Hong Kong government has announced changes to its pandemic policy. In fact, this week announced that it will cut its
mandatory hotel quarantine stay from 7 days to 3 days and that's why I'm here at home. I was able to get out of hotel quarantine early, but now at
home for medical surveillance. Officials here in Hong Kong hope these changes will help bring back the city's vital force Kristie Lu Stout, CNN,
CHATTERLEY: Samsung's Chief pardoned South Korea's President ending a ban on Lee Jae-Yong's return to management. Lisa as part of a 5-year prison
sentence for bribery and embezzlement. But it's been out on parole since last August. Paula Hancocks has all the latest from Seoul.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Samsung and Vice Chairman Jay Y Lee have welcomed the special pardon that's been granted to him by
South Korea's President Yoon Suk-Yeol. Now this was all related to a massive corruption and bribery scandal that took place back in 2016, which
led to massive candlelight protests in Seoul and also to the impeachment and imprisonment of then President Park Geun-Hye.
Park Geun-Hye actually was pardoned by the previous South Korean President last year. Now, this is largely seen as symbolic because Jay Y Lee is
already or was already a free man. He was out on parole, after serving 18 months, prison time and effectively is to lift any legal restrictions that
there were for him to go back to work full time and to run the Samsung Company completely.
Now the reason for this pardon traditionally, there are presidential pardons around this time around Liberation Day. The Justice Minister in
announcing this said that this is "To overcome the economic crisis by revitalizing the economy".
This is a reason that's been given many times over the years for pardoning white collar crimes for pardoning leaders of big business, the fact that
they are useful to try and help the economy. There were also other business leaders that were pardoned this Friday, including the Lotte Chief, Shin
Now some several groups have long criticized this practice of pardoning white collar crime saying that it does lead to a dual legal system where
you can be forgiven for crimes if you are rich or if you are considered to be crucial for the economy.
It hasn't completely wiped the slate clean for Jay Y Lee, though there's still another court case that is ongoing, which relates to a merger back in
2015, which is believed to have helped his succession chances within the company. The allegations there include illegal trading, and stock price
But even before this pardon happened, Jay Y Lee was still very much front and center of Samsung. In fact, back in May, he met with U.S. President Joe
Biden when he went to visit Samson's Semiconductor Plant with the South Korean President. Paula Hancocks, CNN Seoul.
CHATTERLEY: OK, let me bring you up to speed with some of the other stories making headlines around the world. Rescue teams in Mexico are still racing
to free 10 miners who had been trapped below ground for a week. They were stranded when the mind flooded following the collapse of a tunnel wall.
Rescue efforts have been hampered by water, rubble and poor visibility. The person thought to be the owner of the mind could face charges with illegal
Emmy Award Winning Actress, Anne Heche, is not expected to survive according to her family and friends after suffering a traumatic brain
injury. She has remained in a coma after crashing her car in Los Angeles a week ago.
And Argentina's Central Bank has raised its benchmark interest rate by 9.5 percentage points as inflation soars to its highest level in 20 years. It's
the biggest rate increase since 2019. The key rate is going up to see 69.5 percent from 60 percent. Only two and a half weeks after the previous rate
CHATTERLEY: OK straight ahead Ukraine ships wheat abroad for the first time in months, I speak to the country's Deputy Minister of Agriculture. And the
billionaire back fund wants to take social values out of investing the Founder of Stripe Asset Management tells us why this is the best plan for
business and for investors, that's all ahead stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Two more grain ships sailing under a U.N. brokered deal with Russia left Ukraine's ports today. 14
vessels have now sailed since August 1st. Today's cargo includes the first shipment of wheat. Earlier vessels carried mainly grain for animal feed or
fuel. Ukraine is also waiting for a ship to arrive that will take food to crisis stricken Ethiopia.
Joining us now is Taras Vysotskyi. He is Ukraine's First Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Food. Deputy Minister, fantastic to have you with us! There
is clearly a long way to go. But these initial signs and what you're achieving hugely positive.
TARAS VYSOTSKYI, UKRAINIAN DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE AND FOOD: Thank you for calling. Indeed a lot of efforts have been done in order to enable
export of agricultural products or food actually to the set countries which critically needs them.
CHATTERLEY: And are we going to see more of those deliveries? It seems you've initially gone from fuel and animal feed and now its vital supplies
of grains to feed hungry places in the world.
VYSOTSKYI: Yes. First of all, we are focusing so far on food exports mainly wheat, which is the main crop. So far we have already declared and shipped
around 400,000 tons and to be expected to increase these volumes to a few millions per month.
With our goal is to bring the food, wheat and other types of food to the people hundred millions of people which need this food all around the
CHATTERLEY: Sir just so that my audience understands in peacetime, I believe Ukraine would export up to 6 million tons of grain a month. So
you're talking you hope to get to a point where you're doing 2 to 3 million tons so less than half to half of what you were doing in peacetime?
VYSOTSKYI: Indeed, in peacetime, we were having, on average 6 million tons per month. So far we have been able to done in July up to 3 million tons.
We hope to come around 4 million tons per month. So it's like two sets of what we had during the peace times.
CHATTERLEY: I mean that would be a huge achievement. I think as the days passed and we keep hearing about ships successfully transiting in and out
of these ports and going on to their destination safely.
I believe you're getting more and more applications for countries saying look will now help will provide ships what more can you tell us about those
offers of help? How quickly can you utilize them and obviously that plays into how quickly you can ramp up exports and imports more of ships coming
in to collect more grain?
VYSOTSKYI: Indeed, the sole flights going as planned. I'd like to say fingers crossed. We are starting receiving applications for the ships to
come in because before most of them were just going out, the ones which were blocked before the war.
Now it's time for applications to come in. Actually, since this initiative, we are able to work or do up to 80 ships per month, which can be up to even
3 million tons per month only by this route. Of course, everything depends on the security issues.
We are hoping that international guarantees keep going back in and these security issues will be in place. And that we'll meet more and more ships
and more and more food exported to the countries which needs this food.
CHATTERLEY: Can I ask how many of these shipments? And I appreciate its early days you've actually received money for, because this is vitally
important for the sustainability of the Ukrainian economy too is being compensated for the grain that you're now getting to people.
VYSOTSKYI: Of course, for Ukrainian economy, agricultural sector is very important. Even before the war, it was up to 20 percent of GDP was
agriculture. Now it's even more. We are calculating that with current international prices on agricultural commodities and these volumes, we plan
to move on.
It can be up to $1 billion U.S. per month, which is for our agriculture is very important and big money. This is the minimum you've ever seen in goes
even better, it can reach even up to 2 $billion U.S. per month. But first of all our prayer - our goal is to reach this indicator of up to $1 billion
U.S. per month tomorrow - by this week.
CHATTERLEY: Allow your farmers to benefit from the higher prices on world markets as painful as they can be for trying to buy this grain. It is
actually good for your farmers who've struggled over the last several months to even plant.
VYSOTSKYI: We see in the last five months, our farmers were not able even to receive the price, which could cover the costs. So indeed, the opening
of this route and the increasing of the price farmers can reach it's very vital, because already in a month, they should keep planting winter crops.
So we are hoping that the prices will cover the costs and we'll create the necessary conditions to keep operating Ukrainian farmers.
CHATTERLEY: Deputy Minister, can I ask you why you believe Russia is, at least for now complying with the terms of this agreement? And whether it
gives you any hope that perhaps in the future, some kind of ceasefire peace agreement could be negotiated?
VYSOTSKYI: So our belief and hope is first of all, not on Russia but on other international partners. We signed the agreement with Turkey and
United Nations. And we are supported by the Western countries. And so we are first of all, believing that the guarantees provided by Turkey, United
Nations and our partners, the Western countries will work. And this provides us some stability, at least in exporting of agricultural
VYSOTSKYI: So far, we can't command and analyze how it's going or not influenced their war, you know, in general. But we've seen this initiative
once again, we are relying on the international partners, we signs the agreement and we should promise to support.
CHATTERLEY: I understand and it is, to your point early days as well. And very quickly, can I just ask you about the current planting season with
The last time we spoke to you said, you believe this coming harvest is going to be around 40 percent lower than what was achieved last year? Can I
ask you about things other than wheat? How have they managed it to plant other crops for example corn and oats?
VYSOTSKYI: With such crops as old to arrive are back with analysis. We have the same results as previous year. With corn we also have - planning to
have, unfortunately, less, not 40 percent less, but at least 30 percent less because still, there are lots of challenges in planting during the
war. But if this initiative is going well, we are still hoping that our farmers can not only keep but increase planting can increase production
already next year.
CHATTERLEY: Fantastic. I mean, not without challenges, not without a lot of work, but certainly a number of positive news to share. Sir thank you for
joining us today and Taras Vysotskyi there, the First Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Food for Ukraine! Thank you, sir.
VYSOTSKYI: Thank you for calling.
CHATTERLEY: OK, after the break focus on making money not taking stands of old message to U.S. corporations from a new asset management firm, the
Chief comes up next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! High fives handshakes and fist pumps there at the New York Stock Exchange and stocks are up and running
this Friday. It's been a choppy week so far for the major averages.
The S&P 500 remains on track however for its fourth straight week of gains. Wall Street benefiting from this week's better than expected inflation data
the DOW coming into today's session down just 8 percent now, so far this year, the S&P and the NASDAQ cutting their yearly losses substantially too.
As you can see on that chart in front of you the NASDAQ in fact, bouncing from bare market levels with tech now up more than 20 percent from recent
lows fang favorites like Apple and Amazon performing even better both stocks rising some 30 percent in the past two months from the lows.
Let's be clear Apple benefiting from reports of its asking suppliers to keep production steady for the launch of its upcoming iPhone 14. A sign
that it sees continued strong smartphone demand market perils however for investors in U.S. listed Chinese stocks five state owned companies say they
will delist voluntarily from the New York Stock Exchange amid heightened tensions between the United States and China.
Shares of three of those firms China Life Insurance, the Aluminum Corporation of China and Petro China sharply lower in early trade, Alibaba
another Chinese firm listed on Wall Street falling in sympathy too, not willing so much for some of those names. But as you can see that in front
of you on the chart now stay out of politics focus on your core business, that's the message to public companies from my next guest, the Founder of
Strive Asset Management and Author of the book "Woke Inc".
He says "I'm fed up with corporate America's game of pretending to care about justice in order to make money". And when Tesla was kicked out of the
S&P ESG Index back in May, he tweeted perhaps once Blackrock replaces three directors on Tesla's board. Just like they did to Exxon, the ESG Kings will
add Tesla and Elon Musk to the list.
This week, he launched an ETF urging major energy companies to end environmental, social and governance mandates with the combined aim of
allowing investors to build their nest eggs and avoids politics. Joining is now Founder and Executive Chairman of Strive Asset Management, Vivek
Ramaswamy joins us now. Vivek, fantastic to have you on the show!
Its way more complicated than that. But I tried to distill your message into a few lines there, just explain what you hope to provide to clients,
and what you will and won't be saying to companies that you're investing in for them?
VIVEK RAMASWAMY, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN OF STRIVE ASSET MANAGEMENT: Absolutely. So the goal is to provide a new choice, and actually a true
diversity of voice in corporate America's boardrooms, starting with the energy industry. What we will be mandating U.S. energy companies and all
companies eventually to do is to focus exclusively on delivering excellent products and services to your customers over any other agenda, including
social or political agendas.
Here's what we won't be saying, abide by these ESG standards, or CSR standards, or any other three letter acronym that stands for values other
than a focus on products and profitability.
And Julia, I think that's going to be good both for the economy. But I think even for our democracy, where citizens can take politics out of the
boardroom, and go back to debating politics in the political arena. So that's the broader vision here.
CHATTERLEY: People are screaming at the camera, though. And admittedly, there will be people that aren't saying that you can't separate out the
performance of a business from society from ensuring better pay perhaps for your workers for care of the environment, because all these things are
fundamental now, to operating businesses, you can't separate them. What's your response to that?
RAMASWAMY: So look, there's a lot that goes into delivering excellent products and services to your customers. And workers are an important part
of that. So are a lot of other elements.
But the point that we bring to the table at Strive is that should still be the sole ultimate goal of a business, deliver excellent products and
services, do it for a profit.
And Julia, that's what allows for capitalism, American capitalism, but also global capitalism, to deliver on its promise of providing great goods and
services to people who need them, lifting people up, including people at the bottom up from poverty that's how capitalism delivers on its promise.
But I also think it's really important that other questions like racial inequity, or climate change, these are fundamental important questions that
we have to grapple with so important that we shouldn't leave it to business leaders to offer a one sided answer to that question from some cloistered
boardroom in Manhattan.
But instead should put it back to the citizens to debate in the public square through the democratic process, and resolve that through the beauty
of a democracy. So that's actually the broader vision.
RAMASWAMY: You're not saying that those aren't important questions to address, but they're so fundamental and so important that they ought to be
addressed in a democracy where every citizens' voice and vote counts equally, rather than allowing a small group of corporate autocrats in the
boardroom to settle political questions that they have no business meddling in.
So that's neither actually the broader vision, which is neither a left wing nor right wing vision, but it's a vision about restoring the integrity of
American capitalism and democracy. And I think the same principles apply in Western Europe and around the world as well.
CHATTERLEY: You know, I think it's very important message and an important debate to be having. And I think, sometimes when you're talking about and
I've seen your ETF that you've launched disgust, as anti-ESG, or anti-woke is the familiar term, I think the message can get lost.
In your book "Woke Inc" you basically said that corporate America at times and you're quite punchy with it pretends to care about something other than
profits, in order to gain more power and more profits of each.
And I think this cuts to the heart of the challenge here with something like ESGs, in principle, the idea you're saying is really good. However,
it's actually that important that we can't mess it up with companies white washing, green washing, and perhaps making statements because they feel
they have to? And actually not necessarily because they're acting on it, focus on profitability, and the rest will follow. Is that the message?
RAMASWAMY: Yes, look, there are a number of critiques I level in the book and in my other public comments, but at the top of the list is the
RAMASWAMY: I don't appreciate it when large asset managers when large financial institutions talk out of both sides of their mouth. I think
people should be straightforward about what they stand for, and what they don't.
At the end of the day, I do think that there's this game where you pretend to care about something other than profit and power precisely to gain more
profit and power. And Strive's goal is to actually bring just a fresh voice where we say what we actually stand for, and are very clear about what
don't stand for.
So let's say you're a capital owner, who wants to advance social or environmental agendas. In a free society, you're free to do that with your
own money. Strive is very transparent, that Strive would not be a good home for your money. Strive's funds would not be a good home, for your capital.
Every citizen deserves to be actually respected by a fiduciary looks after their money. But the problem right now is the other large asset managers
like Blackrock State Street in Vanguard are effectively taking the money of everyday citizens who want just to maximize profit with their dollars, but
are using that to advance social and political agendas that most of those clients don't agree with, but they don't know it.
So it's the dishonesty. It's the sleight of hand it's the fiduciary breach that bothers me the most. And I think if we get back to a place where
there's a true diversity of views, better representing the true diversity of the views of everyday citizens in this country, who invest in our
That's going to get us back to a better place versus right now where we have a monolithic, ESG centric voice represented in capital markets, in the
asset management industry and in the boardrooms of America's public companies. So that's what I hope we fix at Strive.
CAHTTERLEY: Yes. You know, it's a fascinating point. And I would ask you, who are pushing them? I mean, you mentioned a few names Blackrock, State
Street and Vanguard, the biggest that are what $22 trillion worth of people's money.
They have enough power enough corporate power, in particular in the companies that they're investing in surely to see what they truly feel. But
are you saying that the likes of Larry Fink, for example, over at Blackrock are afraid of being canceled for saying what he actually thinks.
So he sort of goes with the flow and as a result, investors go with that flow, because they've chosen to give them money, and they just want to make
sure they've got a pension in the future? Are you saying he's is hypocrite?
RAMASWAMY: I think it really clear these folks - I love the way you said it, Julia. I mean, these firms do just go with the flow. They're like a
flag, they look good, but they wave in whatever direction they perceive the wind to be blowing on a given day.
A couple of years ago that was getting on the ESG gravy train, it was a great marketing strategy raised a lot of funds, many ESG funds are very
similar to non-ESG funds, except they charge a higher fee.
Yet at the same time, now that he's been facing backlash in the last six months, from, say, red states in the United States, he's beginning to say,
well, I actually don't want to be the world's environmental police.
My view is just being honest. Just say what you stand for. Treat people with respect - treating people with respect means treating them with the
respect of telling them not only that you agree with them, but even when you have a different point of view, to state that different point of view,
but to say you disagree.
And I think that that's what happens when you become too big. When one firm is managing $10 trillion it tries to be everything to everyone. And as a
result is nothing to anyone. And so that was what we embodied with the launch of our first exchange traded fund Strive.
We just rang the New York Stock Exchange Bell earlier this week. It's trading on the New York Stock Exchange. The ticker is really simple D-R-L-L
Drill. It's a U.S. energy index fund. It delivers a mandate to U.S. energy companies to drill to frock to do whatever allows you to be most successful
over the long run, without regard to environmental or social considerations that are important, but should be addressed through the political process
And you know, what, for those folks who agree with that message and endorse that message, this can be a great option to have exposure to U.S. energy
stocks, for the folks who don't want to deliver that message to corporate America's boardrooms as a shareholder. There are plenty of other options
But what was missing Julia was an option that unapologetically delivered the message that we're delivering and Strive will not try to be everything
to everyone because there's truly a true diversity of views that deserve to be represented that's part of what it means to be a respectful market
participant it is part of what it means to be a respectful citizen.
CHATTERLEY: Do you know what the problem is though, people are afraid of being canceled, if they say what they actually think they're afraid of
being canceled? And I think there is a middle ground here where people do care about the environment.
They also do want to have a pension fund that makes money for them, and perhaps are issues that they don't want to get involved in, but that they
have to pick and choose. And your bigger point and this is a really important point.
I think, from the book was that you're afraid in a way of businesses not doing enough but paying lip service to it, but sucking the oxygen out of
places like Washington D.C. So in a way creating tribes within society that have certain views, pushing us to extremes, but still not taking action to
there's no room for politics to serve the purpose.
And I think the counter to that in my case would be that I think people have got sick of waiting for politicians to act. And so they're - sort of
pushing businesses in a direction so I'm not sure who's pushing who and what the fix is Vivek so that's why you're on my show. What is the fix
RAMASWAMY: Yes, so look, I think the fix is restoring the integrity of both capitalism and democracy by separating one from the other. And you put your
finger on exactly the right point. That's the debate we need to be having.
But I think we can actually, rather than sacrificing our politics and throwing in the towel and saying we should give it to corporations, the
power to solve our social problems instead, I think we should do the hard work of fixing our politics to go back to a place where every citizen's
voice and vote does count equally.
And you know what, you're right, we live in this moment of fear where I have never seen a greater gap between what people are willing to say in
private, and people are willing to say in public. And part of the problem is when the private sector becomes politicized people have a fear of losing
their job, fear of putting food on the dinner table for actually speaking their minds.
To me, that isn't America, that isn't a free society. And what we really need to restore is a place where you know what, when you're the only person
in the room who believes what you do, you should actually be able to speak your mind.
Whether that's a DEI meeting at work, whether that's a corporate board meeting, and what you'll probably discover is you weren't the only person
in the room who believed what you did. And we can go back to debating ideas freely without fear of cancellation.
At the same time, we're only going to get there if we actually separate this use of economic force, the economic cudgel, to punish people who
defect from the acceptable ideas that can be voiced today. So I think that's where we need to go.
And at the end of the day, if we can go back to restoring the power of democracy, the power of our politics, then we can get to shared solutions
to share challenges, from inequity, to climate change to whatever it may be sort that out through our politics.
And then the private sector can be one of those places where we come together across our political divisions, across our tribal divisions, to
say that we're going to put politics out of the private sector. But that's how we unite to build things and create things together through the system
of free market capitalism. So that's the broader vision here. That's what motivates me to do this.
CHATTERLEY: And very quickly, your view also is that CEOs can have a view. They can have an opinion, and they can take a stand, it just shouldn't
necessarily be forced upon the business, and therefore the investors in that business as a result.
Because you've taken the stand, and you've had to make tough choices with the company that you founded in the past, because you were criticized for
not saying enough, after the death of George Floyd.
You were then criticized for saying that a U.S. President shouldn't be thrown off social media after the capital attacks in January, the 6th.
Vivek should CEOs be able to have an opinion in it not reflect on the broader company, because we don't separate that today, either?
RAMASWAMY: I think it's a great point. We can draw that distinction, because every CEO is still a citizen and speaking in your capacity as a
citizen, that's a great thing. However, the problem in my view comes up when you use corporate resources and corporate power to be able to foist
your views on the rest of society.
And my view is in a true democracy everyone's voice and vote counts equally, whether you're a CEO, or whether you're somebody who lives in a
rural community hundred miles away, in a democracy on political questions, everyone's voice and vote out account equally unadjusted by the number of
dollars they control in the market.
Which ideas rise to the top and the marketplace of ideas is different than the rules that govern which products raise to the top and a marketplace of
products? And so that's what I say is a CEOs view on where to invest capital, the CEOs view should count for more.
But the CEOs view on how to address climate change or racial justice no CEOs view is any more important than any other citizen. That's what I think
we need to get back to.
CHATTERLEY: OK, now I get the message. This is not anti-ESG. This is making it correct and appropriate and demystifying it and stopping lip service. We
will reconvene on this my friend. It was a great book. I liked it. And I read it yesterday after I say to you at 7:30 pm.
RAMASWAMY: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Ouch, I'm sleep deprived.
RAMASWAMY: Thank you very much.
CHATTERLEY: Great to have you on the show. Vivek Ramaswamy there Founder and Executive Chairman of Strive Asset Management We'll speak again soon
thank you. We're back after this.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! After months of dry conditions British authorities have declared a drought across large swathes of
England. That means water companies are allowed to implement drought plans more easily to protect supplies.
Heat waves and long periods of minimal rain have left much of Europe parched. In Germany, the Rhine River has fallen to exceptionally low
levels, disrupting river based freight and adding to pressure on industry supply chains.
CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins us now from London. Salma, good to have you with us! I saw comments from one senior scientist at the European
Commission saying I think Europe is on course to suffer its worst drought in 500 years this year. And it's not just the UK it's everywhere?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, these are unprecedented conditions. England experiencing its driest July in decades since the 1930s
and you can see behind me in this park here in Greenwich Park in London just how yellow and parched that land is?
London has basically seen no rain in weeks now, so nearly half of England many parts of England now an official drought declared as you said that
means that water companies can begin to impose bans on using hose pipes for example so that you can't water your garden so that you can't wash your car
or your windows.
But there's a call for everyone really to step up Julia. I want to read you a statement from the Mayor of London Sadiq Khan issued after this drought
became official. He said while I'm urging water companies to act swiftly to stop the leaks which are leading to millions of gallons of water being
wasted every day.
Londoners can also play their part by saving water as much as possible at home, we need everyone to pull together to help conserve this precious
natural resource. And that's really what it's all coming down to Julia not just here in England but across Western Europe where we're also seeing very
This is the fourth heat wave that the region is seeing just this summer. You know, that means emergency services have been stretched to the limit.
France, for example, essentially sent an emergency plea for help to the EU.
They now have member states from Romania from Germany sending in their firefighters to help put out blazes in the Southwest of France and Italy.
These droughts like conditions mean that some farmers have lost up to 80 percent of their harvest at.
The River Thames here as well extremely low. We're looking at the same in Germany with the Rhine there, the water levels extremely low and could
potentially impact shipping. And of course the bigger picture here Julia is of course, the climate crisis. Experts say the human induced climate crisis
will only make will only aggravate these conditions in the future.
CHATTERLEY: Salma Abdelaziz in London there for us. Thank you for that. Now on that note, still to come a new study raising concerns about how fast
climate change is weakening and taught to cause glaciers details after this?
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! A troubling report on the ever worsening climate crisis and its effects on the world's largest ice sheet; new research out
of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory estimates that 12 trillion tons of ice from Antarctica's coastal glaciers has been lost since 1997.
That is twice as much as scientists previously thought. Bill Weir joins us now with more. Bill always fantastic to have you on the show. I think for
most people, it sounds like an enormous number. But we truly need your wisdom and context to understand the implications really of what this
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you think of Antarctica, like a big bowl of ice, a big bowl of glaciers, there are these
shelves around the edges that hold them in and keep them from sliding into the sea, which would then raise sea levels around the world.
Well, with new technology, better satellites, sonar and those sorts of things it looks like there are twice as many leaks in those dams around the
edges, as previously thought. Enough of those have crumbled off to cover an area the size of Switzerland.
Meanwhile, warmer seas underneath are thinning the glaciers and the shelves there. And it has massive implications for future sea level rise cities
around the world are already building in models as to how high it could get and how much time ultimately they have to adapt?
It could be faster now and it seems like all the new realities are so much more extreme and are happening so much faster than the predictions.
CHATTERLEY: Wow! OK, so we've got the thinning, as you described it, I think is the seawater heats up, and that melts the ice and then this
natural, what's normal natural cycle of the carving of ice. But what we're saying is it's all happening far quicker than we thought.
Bill, just in terms of the broader consequences one of the things that I read about this was that Antarctica holds 88 percent of the sea level
potential of all the world's eyes. So this happening in this particular spot has global implications for sea levels, which obviously we know, just
based on what we're already seeing around the world devastating effects.
WEIR: And the thing is, Julia that for the last decade or so there's been sort of cold comfort, a pun intended that Antarctica the South Pole was
stable while the North Pole--
WEIR: --everybody saw was really on fire. Greenland's ice would seem that is enough to raise sea levels by a meter or a couple of feet. But now this
new concern at the bottom of the world just adds to the urgency of the situation.
CHATTERLEY: And when you say stable, you mean because the natural cycle of carving is replaced by regret ordinarily that would hold it stable?
WEIR: Exactly. And the dynamics of the weather systems in the southern hemisphere are different from those on the North Pole. So there is also a
new study that just came out yesterday, we thought the North Pole and the Arctic was warming two to three times faster than the rest of the planet
turns out that's four times faster.
WEIR: And that affects weather patterns over Europe and North America. These heat domes that sit a lot of the new science thinks that that's
directly related to as the Arctic loses ice, all that open seawater absorbs a lot more heat. It's the amplification that is accelerating things. We've
seen about a, you know, the sea level rise has been gradual, but now it's like a hockey stick going up.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean part of the challenge of taking action wherever you look in terms of tackling climate change is just trying to quantify the
damage and understand what's going on. So at least this is a further step on that front. Now we just need to do more to take action. Bill it is
always great to have you with us thank you!
WEIR: You bet.
CHATTERLEY: That was Bill Weir. OK, that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and
Instagram pages. You can search for @jchatterleycnn, "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next, and I'll see you on Monday.