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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Russia Claims Ukraine Preparing False Flag Op at Nuclear Plant; Investors Await Fed's Jackson Hole Conference Next Week; Daly: Consumers Depend on us not to Cause Volatility; Chinese National Flees Repression, Seeks Asylum in U.S.; Space Tourism Drives Growth in Zero-Gravity Flights; Ratcliffe Expresses Interest in Buying Manchester United. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired August 18, 2022 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: And a warm welcome to "First Move". Great to have you with us this Thursday and a wonderfully wicked show for

you today as we explore "Defying Gravity" I spared you my singing.

But the CEO of Space Tourism Firm Zero-G joins us to discuss the wonders of weightlessness. How anyone can feel like an astronaut without the bothers

of the blast off and relative price tag? Weightless weddings anyone, yes, it has been done.

And from Zero-G to the Fed's rate tightening spree. Minutes from the Federal Reserve meeting three weeks ago show the U.S. Central Bank not yet

ready to power down the rate hike rockets just yet but officials for the first time worrying about doing too much.

And recognizing that at some point they'll need to decelerate is a Powell pause therefore needed to assess the impact of the tightening that we've

seen so far and perhaps avoid an economy rattling mistake. Well, we'll be asking Mary Daly the President of the San Francisco Federal Reserve who

joins us for an exclusive interview very soon on the show.

Now extra gravity applied to global markets it seems with the DOW snapping a 5-day win streak Wednesday investors were firmly strapped into their

seats during a pretty volatile ride as markets past the Fed statement. As you can see there U.S. Futures and Europe trying to move higher pre market

today after a lower Asian handover and Chinese stocks certainly feeling the heat as the country swelters with those record breaking high temperatures.

Now Goldman Sachs and Nomura are downgrading their forecasts for China once again. Nomura the most pessimistic predicting growth of just 2.8 percent

this year we'll be discussing all the details and implications shortly.

But first, President Zelenskyy is meeting in Lviv with Turkish President Erdogan and the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres. The meeting comes as

Russia claims it could shut down. There's aperture nuclear power plant, saying that shelling by Ukrainian forces damaged its auxiliary support

systems. Ukraine has rejected the Russian version of events and is accusing Russia of being responsible for the attacks.

David McKenzie joins us now. David, there's gentleman meeting in Lviv proved incredibly adept, it seems at least so far in coordinating an

agreement, ever grain exports if only they could do something about this power plant, let's start there. How damaging, how bad would it be for

Russia to do as they're suggesting and shut down this power plant?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a nuclear power plant to Julia, you can't just turn off the switch and walk out the

door. It's a very complex problem. And you speak about nuclear power plants, according to experts, not even in decades, but in sort of half


Because if that exam delivery system is down as the Russians are suggesting, because of ongoing shelling and the frontline goings on at the

moment, then you will depend on the diesel backup generators of those six reactors. If you shut down the site, you have to still keep those reactor

rods cool.

And that is a very tenuous prospect if you don't have a regular supply of electricity. So the ultimate to worry with that is if it can cause some

kind of leak or overheating either in those rights within the nuclear reactors or even in the place where they kept cool after being used.

And then also there's the prospect of Ukraine losing its power supplier from that site, which has already been dramatically reduced. So it's not an

easy thing to do at all, and it is a very worrying development.

CHATTERLEY: So we are talking about the largest nuclear power plant in Europe. We should all be talking about this, David, as we discussed and

you've discussed in the past it was a blame game going on there were the Russians are saying it's the Ukrainians, Ukrainians are saying it's the

Russians. What do we do? What do we know about these strikes? Who is responsible? Do we have any clarity?

MCKENZIE: Well, not again, a day goes by over the last 10 days or so Julia without one side accusing the other of strikes both sides giving a certain

level of detail, it's very hard to ascertain. Given that area is so dangerous immediately around Zaporizhzhia power plant it is right near the

front lines.

We do know that Russian forces have been shelling Ukrainian positions across the river Dnipro. There has also been in the past Ukrainian shelling

and targeting of Russian forces very close to that power plant. It's sort of less important who exactly is to blame at this point in terms of the big



MCKENZIE: But how do you get the Atomic Energy Agency inspectors in there to ensure safety of the power plant itself. Now the U.N. and the Ukrainian

governments and others have suggested there needs to be a demilitarized zone, the Russian Ministry of Defense is saying there's no chance that can

happen at this point just a short time ago, you did have President Zelenskyy meeting with Turkish President Recep Erdogan, in Lviv to the left

of where I'm standing on the agenda is them to discuss the grand deal.

As you say, but there will be hopes that behind closed doors, at least they can try and figure out some kind of negotiated settlement to ease the

tension around that power plant, because this has been going on for many days now. And that threat, obviously still remains, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we need some kind of experts to be able to at least go in there and assess what is exactly going on within that that nuclear power

plant? David, we'll wait and see what they say when they come out of these meetings and fingers crossed something's discussed. David McKenzie, thank

you for that.

To Germany now, and the government is slashing the rate of sales tax on consumer's gas bills to cushion the blow from soaring prices and a new

energy Levy. But the country's energy regulators also warning at the same time, it will most likely miss a target for gas in storage by November. And

that, of course, is part of the government's emergency plan to prevent an energy crisis over the winter.

Clare Sebastian joins me now, Clare, I'm really hoping you're not as confused as I am by this because I was trying to work out exactly what's

going on my understanding, and you can correct me. Germany said that households are going to face an additional cost of around $296 to pay for

natural gas.

So that's an additional levy it's 2.42 euro cents per kilowatt hour extra. But now they're reducing VAT from 19 percent to 7 percent. And the hoping

that will be passed on.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia, a measure I think of the many forces on the government as they tried to go navigate through this

very urgent crisis now just sort of a month or so away, for when people are going to start to put their heating on what we have here.

As a situation where just three days ago, the German government announced this new levy on gas bills a way of sort of spreading the pain from the gas

importers to the consumers. Don't forget that Uniper, which is the biggest gas importer in Germany, just this week announced a 12-billion euro, loss

in the first half of the year, they are being bailed out by the government.

The alternative to this, according to the German vice chancellor was not no Levy. This was the collapse of the German energy market. So they say they

have no choice in this. But they then proceeded to start to look for ways to mitigate the impact on consumers and the one they settled on because

they couldn't according to E.U. rules, completely exempted from VAT was a reduction in VAT from 19 percent to 7 percent, as you say, to somewhat

cushion the blow for consumers, although of course, not completely now.

Like if it works, then that's good for consumers. But this is controversial and IMF blog post just earlier this month, Julia said that the European

governments should allow the full increase in fuels cost of pass to end users to encourage energy saving, this is subsidizing energy use at a time

when they should be incentivizing demand reduction to try to make it through winter so extremely controversial here. And it just a reflection of

how urgent the situation is as we head towards winter.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and it's crippling, to those who can least afford it. Of course, you can try and use that supply and demand argument and restrain

the amount of use of energy but at what cost for families and for households. Industry aside, care at the same time, of course, part of the

plan from Germany is to ramp up storage facilities and the regulators saying, look, even if you're ahead of target today, you may not reach that

target. And Clare, you and I have discussed in the past, even if those storage tanks are full. It's still not enough.

SEBASTIAN: Yes, it's insurance policy storage essentially. And on paper right now. They're doing pretty well Germany is at 77 percent of its

storage capacity that's ahead of where they've been in many previous years. Europe as a whole is at about 75 percent.

But in an interview with a German online news outlet, the head of the Federal network agency, he basically was warning that the next incremental

targets would be much harder that they were aiming for 85 percent by October 1st. He called that not impossible, but "ambitious" because people

will already have that heating on by then. And then the 95 percent by November 1st target. He said that they missed that in all of their


So that is a very alarming situation. Because of course storage is only about 20 percent of European annual consumption in winter takes up much

more than 20 percent of the year. So they're not just relying on the storage. They have to keep importing gas to get through the winter. If

there's further reductions from Russia, that puts them in a very precarious situation.

And that is why demand reduction is so critical at this point for E.U. governments to take seriously.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we might still see it. I guess that's the response and the answer to that.


CHATTERLEY: Clare Sebastian thank you so much for that. Now Russia supertanker carrying 700,000 barrels of oil is arriving in Cuba. And nation

battling of food and energy crisis worsened by a fire that destroyed 40 percent of their Caribbean islands main fuel storage facility last week,

causing massive blackouts.

Patrick Oppmann joins us now from Havana. Patrick, clearly this is going to be welcomed oil from Russia or wherever. Talk to us about that find out how

much was lost, where the supplies in that storage facility that were actually lost and how much of a difference and the supplies unless you're

going to make?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a devastating fire because it no longer allows the destruction of that fire caused this oil tank that went

on for days caused several explosions costing lives at least 16 firefighters.

And now when a super tanker like this supertanker carrying Russian oil arrives, it cannot go into port right now it is off the coast of eastern

Cuba and appears oil analysts tell us that they are unloading oil from ship to ship, especially putting oil from a large supertanker under smaller

ships that then can come into ports. It cannot accommodate those ships. This fire has taken away Cuba's ability to accommodate a large supertanker

like that.

So it just makes it as you know, Julia so much more, costly and time consuming to bring in the oil that Cuba so badly needs. But of course, as

we are dealing with ramp of blackouts everyday there're blackouts across this island have 510 hours each day, sometimes longer.

And that is causing people to go out and protest and of course, causing a huge loss in productivity on this island. So the government desperately

needs this oil. And it's not clear exactly who is paying for this, because we're talking about $70 million dollars of oil.

That is not money that Cuba has on hand right now. So there's some speculation that perhaps Venezuela which has an agreement with Cuba to

supply oil, but he's also dealing with their own production problems, has promised Russia to pay back the oil at a future date. Russia has its own

issues, which it has a surplus of oil has tankers full of oil, but nowhere to send them to, essentially because of U.S. and European sanctions.

So this solves in the immediate near future, several problems for this group of countries that rely on one another. But it is telling once again,

Russia is keeping the lights on in Cuba; at least for a while this is a temporary solution.

And once again, Julia, that fire that massive fire that caused the deaths of these firefighters that Cuba is now mourning two days of official

mourning began today for these firefighters. But it is going to be a long term problem continuing to bring in oil, a finding out who will pay for the

oil and then getting it to have these power plants that are essentially flickering, barely keeping the energy grid going, Julia; it certainly has

Cuban officials worried and these hot summer months.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I had a question for you there. But you already answered it. I was going to ask you who pays for it. But as you said, that's clearly

going to be a negotiation. And don't we're unsure at this stage. Patrick, great to have you with us!

OPPMANN: Yes, it's interesting. Cuban officials usually don't comment on this. And they came out and said, we are not alone. They're showing it's a

sign of solidarity. But again, who's picking up the tab? We just don't know.

CHATTERLEY: I give you one guess. Patrick Oppmann, thank you so much for that. OK, straight ahead, Inflation flattened in the United States. Mary

Daly from the San Francisco Federal Reserve weighs in plus, no rocket, no problem. How to experience the weightlessness of space for a fraction of

the price, it's still pricing? That's all coming up, stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" the countdown is on to the closely watched Federal Reserve conference in Jackson Hole Wyoming, next week where

chair Jay Powell will speak about the global economic challenges ahead.

Jackson Hole is traditionally a place where the Federal Reserve unveils new policy pivots too. The big question is what Jerome Powell says about the

direction of inflation and interest rates and whether another oversized hike in borrowing costs might be necessary next month?

The Fed saying in meeting minutes released Wednesday that it will continue to raise rates until it gets inflation firmly under control. But officials

also seemingly concerned about doing too much saying "Many participants remarked, there was also a risk that the committee could tighten the stance

of policy by more than necessary to restore price stability".

That officials hinting that more moderate rate hikes or perhaps even a pause might be an order at some point. The question is how high the rates

need to rise before that happens? And what kind of job losses or even recession risk could be triggered before we get there?

In the meantime, U.S. stocks have risen almost 10 percent since the Fed meeting last month, liquidity fueled meme stocks too on a tear once again,

all this perhaps a sign that financial conditions remain too loose, even for the Feds liking.

Mary Daly joins us now. She's the President of the San Francisco Federal Reserve. President Daly, Mary, fantastic to have you on the show once

again. I think the first question really to begin with is on inflation and given the most recent data that we saw; whether you think we've seen the

worst in terms of high prices?

MARY DALY, PRESIDENT & CEO, FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF SAN FRANCISCO: Well, I think it's way too early to declare victory on inflation. And remember that

for Americans, they're paying 8.5 percent more this year than they were last year for the same basket of goods and services. So, really, there's

some relief, and I was really pleased to see that, but I don't count on it. We have a lot of work to do at the Fed to bring us back to price stability.

CHATTERLEY: Do you think that's the biggest mistake, perhaps, that investors, even consumers, perhaps, can make at this moment, is that now

that we've seen, perhaps, the peak reach and it start to come off that actually it will come down now of its volition and actually that the Fed

doesn't have too much more work to do?

DALY: I don't think we can count on that at all. Remember that, you know, the number came down a little bit, but it was largely on the back of energy

prices. If you look at core services and other things that people really depend, you know, restaurant meals, healthcare, the various things they do

at retail, those are still rising, and those are things that hit people's pocketbooks directly. You know, food is really still very high; energy

prices remain rising at a quick clip, even though they've come down at bit, and housing and rent very high.

So, there's a lot of work to do. A lot of this inflation is demand driven. About half of it is demand driven, half of it is supply driven. The Fed is

built to help the part that's demand driven. And so we will continue to raise the interest rate to get it right sized for the economy we have.

CHATTERLEY: And I think something that we don't often talk about and perhaps can be overlooked is that we have this statement figure for what we

perceive to be inflation, but, particularly for the lowest income households that are spending a far greater proportion of their disposal

income on things like food and energy to get around, the inflation rate de facto (ph) for them actually is far higher than that figure.

DALY: Well, absolutely, it's - you know, I think of this as the basic indignity of inflation. We all know it hits lower income families harder

for the reasons you just stated. But think about this, you're going to work, you even getting a wage increase, the job market are strong, you're

getting 5 percent wage increase, and yet you're losing ground every day.


DALY: You're on a treadmill, where you get your paycheck, and it erodes. And so, you're less well off today then you were just a month ago - and

much less well off than you were a year ago.

And that is something that, you know, informs me, when I think about what do people really want? You go out and ask people in my communities - and

remember I cover a wide part of the United States.

I have Alaska, Hawaii, Idaho, Utah, and California, among other states. And all of the people say the same thing. They want relief on inflation. Mary,

when is inflation going to come down, so I don't have to think about it anymore, and I can get back to the job of living and moving my career and

my family along.

CHATTERLEY: And that's the key, I think, when we think about what's going to happen in September for the Federal Reserve. You said that you have an

open mind, that your base case is half a percentage point.

I think if we look at the importance of trying to prevent these rising prices and bring rises prices - or slow rising prices relative to the

relative strength, let's call it that. For example, in the jobs market even the resilience, I think, of purchases and retail sales in this country, is

there an argument to be made that actually more, rather than less, can be done by the Federal Reserve here and perhaps should be done?

DALY: So, I'd like to distinguish - I think it's a really good opportunity, as we get to the September meeting, to distinguish between two different

things. One, is how high do we need to raise the rate to. And my own idea is that we need to get a little bit above three by the end of the year.

And the second question is how quickly do we need to get there? And my own view on that is that, you know, 50 or 75 seem reasonable. It will get - as

we get closer to the meeting, we'll have more data coming out. We have another inflation report, another employment report. We'll look at that

against the dashboard of other indicators we observe including global economic conditions, and we will make a decision.

But ultimately, we need to get the rate up beyond - up to neutral at least, which is around 3 percent. But likely to restrictive territory, a little

bit above three this year, and a little bit more above three next year. That's just the kind of interest rate path, financial conditions - the

tightness of financial conditions (ph) we need to bridle back the economy a bit and slow the pace of inflation.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. What's fascinating as well, just from a market perspective, is that investors always try to guess what you're going to do

before you do, and that's just part and parcel of being an investor. But this perception perhaps that you're going to raise interest rates to a

certain point, and then suddenly start to bring them back down again, and there's this is conversation about a pause.

Do we also - both as consumers, I think making preparations for the future, but also investors realize that even when you get to the point upon which

you go, OK, now we are happy with where our prices are, or at least the progression that we're seeing, pause? Rates may stay in that place for a

considerable amount of time. Do you think there's an understanding or a lack of understanding about that too at the moment?

DALY: It's interesting, I think there's a - there seems to be, if you look at the markets there was a lack of understanding in the markets. But

consumers seem to understand that. And I think it's because they depend on the Fed to not introduce unnecessary volatility.

The worst thing that you can have is a business or a consumer is to have rates go rapidly up and then come down, because then you don't know, should

I buy my home now or should I wait.

It just causes a lot of caution and uncertainty. And our job is to reduce uncertainty, not to increase uncertainty.

So, I really think of this as - the raise and hold strategy is the one that's historically paid off for us. Of course, we are data dependent. If

conditions evolve differently than we expect we would change our policy path.

But I do think we want to, you know, not have this idea that we'll have this large hump shaped rate path where we'll ratchet up really rapidly this

year and then cut aggressively next year. That's not what's on my mind.

CHATTERLEY: And if you weave that into what we're seeing in terms of the jobs market I think no job loss is acceptable. And I know you and I have

talked about this in the past about the importance of bringing people back into the workplace. But there are economists out there that are saying

actually it might need a rise above 5 percent in the unemployment rate simply to get prices back down to where we want them. Is that something

that the Federal Reserve and you would accept if necessary? You're sort of weighing up risks.

DALY: So, I think we're just so far away from that scenario right now. Unemployment is 3.5 percent and inflation is printing at 8.5 percent with

the last CPI. So clearly, we have a strong labor market but much (ph) July inflation.

You know, economists are sort of built - and I am an economist - to think about all the worst case scenario risks. But I also think as a policy maker

we need to be data dependent. And as just a person out in the world, you can go out and see that there are help wanted signs all over the place,

there are long queues to get into things because there aren't enough staff to facilitate you getting in there and buying something, going to movies,

buying groceries, and inflation's too high.


DALY: So, I think everybody understands that we need to bring the rate up in order to curve the inflation. And some cooling in the labor market would

be welcomed for both firms and individuals who are waiting in long lines or just have too many jobs to choose from. And they're thinking, OK - and I -

you know, it's weird to say too many jobs to choose from.

So, let me explain what I mean by that. It really is, you know, if you're job hopping constantly, it can interrupt your ability to grow and make a

career progression. And so, I think frenzied economies are not what anyone really wants. But mostly, if you're a worker out there, you have more jobs

than you can take, and you have inflation that's eroding the real value of those jobs each and every day.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and you raise such a great point and it - you know, again, it brings us back to the data. There are two job openings for every person

looking for a job. That's what the data is telling us in this country, and that is unusual, to say the least.

It sort of puts in mind of my next question, which is - and I guess I'll blame the media for this - would you like to see an end to the media's

speculation about recession or no recession, are we in a recession or aren't we?

Because whether it's inflation or whether it's recession, I think everybody knows the dangers of self-fulfilling prophecies. Perhaps if the R-word was

used less and actually the data was looked at more in its entirety, we would have a different view. And that's important perhaps too.

DALY: Well, I'm certainly evidenced-based. And so, when we look at the data instead of, you know, the worse-case scenarios, I feel really relieved.

But, you know, I think that this self-fulfilling prophecy, if you look at what consumers are doing, spending. If you look at people out shopping and

going to movies and traveling and just partaking in the economy - and getting jobs - I mean, people are still getting jobs in large numbers -

then I don't think the consumer, the businesses, are in a self-fulfilling prophecy mode. I do think that the more we talk about the things the more

frightening they are.

What I really would like to have now is, we all just turn to the economy, we look at the economy we have, and we say the following thing, the job

market is strong, inflation is too high, and the Federal Reserve is committed to using its tools to bring the economy back to a sustainable

path where people don't have to wake up every morning worrying about whether their real wages are eroding because you know - they're wages are

eroding because the real value is falling as inflation eats away.

And to give those - you mentioned, low and moderate-income families - to give those families relief. Why wouldn't they want to think every morning

about inflation and every night about inflation? The Federal Reserve is fully committed to bringing it down, restoring price stability. And I

believe that we have the tools, and I know we have the commitment to get this done.

CHATTERLEY: Mary, very quick question, and it ties to what else is going in the world and you've talked about it, and I've not really seen anybody

else. The synchronicity of tightening going on all around the world and how much the Federal Reserve focuses on that as you're making your plans too,

because it does have a huge impact on all of the things that we've discussed for various different reasons. How much of a focus is that global

tightening while the Fed's tightening?

DALY: I'm certainly thinking about it a lot, as all of us do. The reason we think about it is, is - there's a variety of reasons. First of all, global

synchronization of interest rate tightening, basically, means that global financial conditions are tightening more than just the Federal Reserve

tightens the interest rate, right? So those are just - we have to keep that in mind because that has an amplification effect, if you will.

The other thing and you see this in some of the estimates or the projections of growth in Europe, for instance, facing, you know, hardships

that could be recessionary, and that's a headwind for U.S. growth.

And by a headwind, I mean, if you're walking outside and you feel a big wind blowing against you, you know, you have to put more energy to it.

Well, we don't know if it will be really like a gale force wind or just a light breeze, but what we do know is we are facing a global economy that's

growing slower and that will push back against U.S. growth. And we have to take that into consideration as we ensure that we don't overdo policy.

You know, we don't want to underdo policy and then find inflation gets embedded, and it's hard to unwind. But we don't want overdo policy either

and find that we've tightened the economy more than necessary. That would just be an unforced air.

So, really this is a balancing act of making sure we're doing enough and making sure we're not doing too much as we look at all the risks out there.

CHATTERLEY: President Daly, one of the great things about getting you on the show is that you do make everything so much more easy to understand, at

least in my mind. So, thank you so much for your time.

DALY: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: As always, it's great to chat to you. Thank you.

DALY: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Mary Daly, the President of the San Francisco Federal Reserve there. We'll speak again soon, hopefully. Thank you. We will be back after

this. Stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! Since President Xi came to power in 2012, the number of Chinese nationals seeking asylum abroad has increased by nearly

eight times. In 2012 more than 15,000 people were seeking asylum by 2021 the most recent data the number jumped to more than 118,000.

President Xi is the country's most powerful and authoritarian leader in decades. And repression in China has only grown during the pandemic under

his zero COVID policy. Its driving fear and frustration and more Chinese are yearning for a freer life. And some of them are risking everything to

chase that dream. CNN's Selina Wang spoke to one man who fled his homeland.


SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This wall separates one tune from his American Dream. He's prepared to risk everything to climb over

illegally crossing into the U.S. from Mexico. But unlike most of the thousands of illegal crossings a day on the southern border, he's not

fleeing poverty or violence south of the wall.

His journey started on the other side of the world. We've been following him for months during his perilous escape out of China by plane, boat, bus,

motorcycle, and on foot. He ran a bubble tea shop back in China when COVID, hit business tanked from constant lock downs.

He left his son and daughter behind with his parents, hoping to bring them to America one day. China's unrelenting zero COVID policy, growing

authoritarianism under Xi Jinping and stifling nationalistic education taught in his children's schools pushed Wang over the edge.


WANG (voice over): At a key political meeting this fall, Xi Jinping is set to secure an unprecedented third term as the Supreme Leader of the

Communist Party. He's the strong man a top of surveillance state one that during the pandemic can control and track the movements of virtually all

1.4 billion people.

Since the start of the pandemic, China has kept its borders sealed. A policy the government says is needed to fight COVID-19. And earlier this

year forbade its citizens from going overseas for non-essential reasons. With China turning increasingly inward, Wang became desperate to get out of

he was set on one destination America.

Through online chat groups, he discovered a network of people in China planning to illegally immigrate to America through Quito, Ecuador. He

applied for language school in Quito and made it out of China in April with the schools admission letter as proof. He started documenting his whole

journey from Ecuador.

He rode buses over thousand miles to Colombia than took a boat to Panama, sharing the ride with other desperate but hopeful migrants. On the other

side, a five day hike through Panama's rainforest, an endless walk through mud, rivers and mountains.

A journey that Wang said almost broke him from exhaustion, a brief respite at a refugee camp than seven days of buses from Panama to Costa Rica,

Nicaragua, Honduras and Guatemala. From there, a boat to Mexico's border where Police detained him for five days when he was released, he paid an

illegal smuggler thousands of dollars to get to Mexico City.

Dozens of people squeezed into the back of a truck then packed into about more than 104 degrees Fahrenheit inside. In Mexico City, Wang rode a

motorcycle 1600 miles to the U.S. border where we met up with him determined to make it to the other side. He's just one of droves of Chinese

trying to flee the country.

According to the UN Refugee Agency, the number of Chinese nationals seeking asylum has been steadily increasing until it reached a record in 2021. And

most of them 70 percent were trying to get to America.

On China's internet searches for emigration started skyrocketing in March, as many struggle to get basic necessities and food during lockdowns across

the country. Discussion forums with detailed tips on how to leave China have gone viral on social media. Immigration Lawyer says inquiries from

Chinese wanting to leave have surged since the pandemic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The volume of inquiries is up many hundreds of times then over what it what it previously was.

WANG (voice over): But for others like Wang - is the only path into America is the illegal way. He ultimately made it to the other side, walked hours

in the American desert over mountains. His sneakers fell apart. More than a month later, we met Wang in Los Angeles. In this new world, he's found the

familiar, temporarily settling into a community of Chinese immigrants.

He's even made a friend who crossed into America the same way he did. While he waits for a hearing on his immigration case he's getting a driver's

license training to be a misuse and studying English every day. But he's also anxious. In the best case, it will be years before he sees his family


WANG (on camera): How do you feel when you think about your children?

WANG (voice over): He's applying for political asylum. But if his application is rejected, he says he might ask his kids when they're older

to take the same dangerous path to America that he did.

WANG (on camera): Have you told your family where you are?

WANG (voice over): That future is uncertain but with China in his past he has hope of living out his American dream.


WANG (on camera): We reached out to the Chinese government to comment on our story in response Beijing defended the country's COVID policies and

called China a land full of vitality and hope.

Stories like Wang's, they are a smear on Beijing's narrative that China is getting stronger and more prosperous, while America is in decline. Now

Wang's journey to America it may be rare and extreme. But we have spoken to others that are taking a similar path, including one man who illegally

escaped China by walking across the border into Vietnam.

From there he flew to Ecuador, and is now taking that same long path that Wang did to the U.S. Mexico border. In China right now there are of course,

still people who support the government's zero COVID policy that has kept the reported death numbers low. But more and more are also feeling hopeless

about the future of their country, a place where they see freedoms and opportunities disappearing. Selina Wang, CNN, Beijing


CHATTERLEY: More "First Move" after this.


CHATTERLEY: Weightless weddings for anyone, whether it's getting hitched or just because you want to do some somersaults there were all sorts of fun

things you can do on board a zero gravity flight. That's where you feel what it's like to be an astronaut.

The company behind it says bookings have skyrocketed pardon the pun, in part thanks to space tourism flights offered by Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk,

talking of which the SpaceX Founder himself was pictured here. As you can see enjoying a ride of his own, along with the Movie Director James Cameron

and the late Stephen Hawking, so how does this all work?

Well, once this specially adapted jet reaches 24,000 feet, the pilot increases the angle to around 45 degrees relative to the horizon. And

during this phase, passengers feel the pull of a 1.8 G before the plane pushes over the top of the arc and zero gravity phase kicks in and lasts

for around 20 to 30 seconds.

Then the pilot gently pulls out of the maneuver the passenger is returned to the floor of the aircraft and this is repeated 15 times over the course

of the flight. Matt Gond is the CEO of Zero G Corporation and he joins us now. Matt did I get all that right because as you can see, I'm clearly very

excited about the process?

MATT GOND, CEO, ZERO-G CORPORATION: Well, you know, I've been looking for salesperson Julia - online thing doesn't really work out for you want to

have a little more fun. Come and join.


CHATTERLEY: Not sure you can afford me my friend. Talk about how it all works? And how many people go up in a flight and the response that you've

seen particularly in light, as I mentioned as of what's going on with SpaceX and Blue Origin because surely everyone's aware of this now as a

potential opportunity?

GOND: For sure they are and in no particular order. About 28 passengers come up with us and we fly through various parts of the country, we have a

flight coming up in about 10 days in Houston, then we're up in New York, Los Angeles, Vegas, we have about 10 places we fly out of, for our consumer


And then we also significant about what we do are research. So those are kind of the things and how people react to it. The responses ranged from

this changed my life, greatest thing I've ever done I can't believe this is possible. What a dream.

So those are pretty much the four top responses. And you know, how we achieve it is, you know, again, like you described flying the plane and a

parabola and as you get up towards that parabola, you separate from gravity and for, you know, almost 30 seconds here, you know, flying and

experiencing what it feels like to be constrained on Earth.

CHATTERLEY: Have you ever had someone get through the first arc and say, OK, I don't like this, I'm going to get back to my seat and strap in

because there's 14 more of those to go?

GOND: There - no - that has never happened. I mean--


GOND: --first of all, the first four parabolas we do are being what it's like to be on the moon. So if you want to try one small step for man, one

giant step for mankind, you can do that. My favorite is doing pushups.

And again, you look at me, you know, I looked like an athlete. And the fact that I can basically, you know, do a push up and as I go up into the air, I

mean, I do a push up. And I'm going to do to do like this. And then I do with one arm, do it with a pinky.

So I can really make myself look strong. But that's a very cool thing to do in linear gravity. So we give people a chance to kind of get a feeling for

what it's like before we then go into zero gravity.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, there's one thing good pushups there a definite attraction. Let's talk about the cost of this because it's, I believe

$8,500 plus taxes, but just to compare it to the millions of dollars that you would pay if you were lucky enough to win a seat on one of the rockets

that go up for Blue Origin or SpaceX that we're seeing, you experience far more time, weightless on this relative to that too?

GOND: We do. So going up with Blue and soon to be with Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic, you're going about three is minutes with them. And that's

time now to get out of your seat float around, look out the window, get back to your seat, and come down.

And again, I wouldn't diminish it at all. I would love to do either of those experiences. But it's a bit different than ours. You know, here we're

getting 15 sessions of between 20 and 30 seconds, and you get to learn from each one, what you're going to do the next time. So you'll have - A, you

have twice as much time and also you have a learning curve that you can continue to improve and change the things that you do.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, it still feels expensive, but relative to what they're offering it's a tiny fraction. It's not just about the fun of

experience weightlessness, either. I mean, you also carry out research for NASA for MIT, I believe the first 3D printing of a human heart in

microgravity was carried out and 3D printers are now in the International Space Station as a result. What can you tell us about that? It's

fascinating too?

GOND: They did. So basically what happens is that, you know, there's this - how do things react in space? So what they'll do is, they'll create an

experiment to come up on the plane, they're doing more like 30 parabolas. So they're getting closer to 15 minutes of actual microgravity time to see

how things react?

So, again, you know, the first step for getting a 3D printer to space was to test it out in Zero G.

And a lot of things that happen are done that way. How do things act in space? How the fluids transfer? How do different materials react? All those

things are critical to know before you start sending them up there.

So we've done I'd say 30 to 40 percent of the flights, we do are research based on things like that. And now with the advent of space stations being

developed over the next 10 years, there's even a larger demand of seeing how those things will act in a microgravity environment.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating. I guess one of the other questions I'll ask because I know somebody at home will be wondering about this carbon


GOND: So we you know, unfortunately, we fly a commercial jet that's a Boeing 727. It's basically the same size of a 737. We are anxiously looking

forward to when we'll be able to get you know, a biomass is kind of jet fuel.


GOND: And I know there are those in development at some point, they'll be available. But right now unfortunately, we're, you know, we're burning fuel

like everybody else does. We're exploring, you know, offsets and things like that.

But right now we have a three engine, gas guzzling plane. And, you know, we're in the same position as Delta and everybody else and Emirates and -

also has to fly these things.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I guess, maybe offering an offset. People pay a bit more if they're willing to pay this much, maybe pay a bit more to do some

offsets if they want to do it personally for themselves, maybe an option. You have to be real quick with no time left. Tell me what it feels like, in

your mind?

GOND: It's in my mind it is - it's literally you're suspended in the air. You are kind of lost and what it feels like it is a completely ethereal

experience. You have no bearing where you are?

The best thing is when you're upside down; blood is not traveling near your head, so you don't know what is up? What is down or right or left?

So I strongly encourage you to come join us Julia and anybody else has had that dream what it's like to be in space. We train astronauts, you know,

come feel what it's like to be an astronaut.

CHATTERLEY: --I would love to come. And I want to do some somersaults? I'm very excited about where we can be my whole team is in my head now going

what about me? Great to have you with us!

GOND: Thank you so much and have a great--

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Thank you and I'll consider the job offer. Thank you, sir. GOND: GOND: Absolutely.

CHATTERLEY: The CEO of Zero-G Cooperation. Thank you. Coming up, off the world's richest man joked about by Britain's richest man is now signaling

things interest too. I'm talking about MANU better than Paul R. LA Monica to debate with me next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! British Billionaire Jim Ratcliffe expressing an interest in buying Manchester United if it's the sales. So is he serious

that's the big question. Only a few hours earlier Tesla CEO Elon Musk tweeted that he was buying United before explaining he was only joking.

Paul R. LA Monica joins me now. Paul, the sports reporters at CNN didn't even get a look in whom better than a brilliant business journalist and a

Liverpool fan to discuss this story? What do we know?

PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNN REPORTER: What we do know? CNN has confirmed Julia that Radcliffe is seriously interested in buying Manchester United if it is

for sale. So a couple of things to go through there, one he is serious this is not a joke like Elon Musk with his tweet.

Two, we don't know if the Glazer family that controls MANU actually wants to sell the club or not. There have been reports that they might be looking

to sell on minority interest.

But whether or not that would blossom into a full blown sale remains to be seen? Clearly there's a lot of discontent with how the team is being run

and I think there are a lot of fans that would love to see new ownership.


MONICA: And Ratcliffe he does have the money and he has the interest. He made a last minute bid for Chelsea that was turned down when the owner of

the Los Angeles Dodgers Baseball Team had a consortium that wound up winning the bid for Chelsea.

CHATTERLEY: Oh, that's a great point. He's effectively had a dry run with Chelsea. And it's going to come down to the fans, isn't it as well. I mean,

they've the last four days, actually the last several months let's call it years perhaps you're in it's been trying to be kind.

MONICA: Years.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Paula R. LA Monica great job! We shall continue to cover this story with people who are interested. And not those that aren't. And

might I suggest again, just as I did yesterday, there is a plan B, M62 to - myself. Thank you so much for that. Paula R. LA Monica say no more great to

have you with us as always--

MONICA: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. OK, that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. You

can search for @jchatterleycnn. "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next.