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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Rishi Sunak, Britain's new PM to speak soon; Sunak Won the Race after Penny Mordaunt Withdrew; Sunak will be UK's First Non-White PM; Rishi Sunak to be Next UK Prime Minister. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired October 24, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: Graham Brady, the Chair 1922 Committee will come and announce the votes. And Rishi Sunak is the head will be
announced the Prime Minister will effectively be the new Prime Minister. I'm just going to go straight to Bianca as I read this statement, Bianca.
What's the process of events here?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, now, I suppose I haven't seen the statement yet, Max. Full disclosure because my Wi Fi seems to have gone -
if indeed any more than has conceded it means that Britain has a new Prime Minister and that new Prime Minister will be the Former Chancellor, Rishi
We've had tallies leading up until today, that's put him now at over 180 MPs. That's over half of the parliamentary party, more than enough to form
the government. And there's been a lot of discussion about unity about the Conservative Party trying to present a united front showing that they can
be disciplined showing they can put the national interest first.
And I know that behind the scenes has been a lot of chatter by Conservative MPs, about the mode on Camp saying, do you really want to stand against
Sunak? Because it to the membership per track this process, get us into a situation where the members could favor more than the parliamentary party
wanted Sunak by standing down now.
It looks like the Conservative Party will be able to go full steam ahead, appoint their new Prime Minister and leader of the party by today and get
on with the business of governing. This, of course, is a big coup for Sunak, who just very recently failed to become Prime Minister when he stood
against Liz Truss in the last leadership contest. That ended mere six or seven weeks ago, but obviously second time lucky for Sunak, Max.
FOSTER: OK, so we can confirm that. Penny Mordaunt has conceded. So therefore, Rishi Sunak will be the next British Prime Minister. What we're
looking at here is the room where that'll be formally announced by the 1922 Committee.
Then it's literally a process of going to see the King and being appointed Prime Minister but breaking news this hour. Rishi Sunak, will be the next
British Prime Minister. Julia, you'll know him from his days as Finance Minister. How he steered the economy, and he's seen as the safe pair of
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST: It was exactly what I was going to say. That's exactly what the country needs, at this moment, a safe pair of hands
unknown quantity. And it's interesting the conversation I was just having with Jonathan Porter.
He said longer term; we don't really know what he stands for, as far as the economy is concerned, but at least shorter term. He is that and you saw
that in the financial market reaction when Boris Johnson stepped down overnight. This was seen as a stabilizing force, and it's what the country
And I was just looking through Penny Mordaunt's statement actually, in her last sentence is crucial. We all owe it to the country to each other and to
Rishi to unite and work together for the good of the nation. There is much work to be done. And I think a crucial part of this, of course, is the
ongoing work that Chancellor Jeremy Hunt continues to do even under Liz Truss.
And will continue to do and I think that pic and confirmation that Jeremy Hunt remains as Chancellor is going to be another crucial aspect of what
hopefully we hear today. Because continuity in this government, at least as far as the chancellor is concerned is key. Let's listen in now to Graham
Brady the Chair of the 1922 Committee --.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM BRADY, 1922 COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Good Afternoon, as returning officer in the leadership election, I can confirm that we have received one valid
prominent, Rishi Sunak is therefore elected as leader of the Conservative Party. I may wish to know the new leader of the party will address us in
this room and how best to, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Then we have the formal confirmation. As I understand it, the way we can interpret that language. Joining me now is Robert Hayward. He's a
Member of the House of Lords and member the Conservative Party there was only one valid nomination at the end, which suggests that plenty more than
didn't get the 100 MPs backing her.
ROBERT HAYWARD, BRITISH MEMBER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS: I think that's probable but equally she may have taken a judgment that even if she's just
got over the margin, Rishi was getting so many extra nominations. Really heavyweight nominations left right and center, that she probably took the
judgment quite sensitively, that it would be the appropriate thing to withdraw.
FOSTER: But because this is about unifying the party getting behind one candidate at a very divisive time.
HAYWARD: Yes, one of her messages has been let's unify the party and therefore probably the best way of unifying the party is actually
FOSTER: Quite extraordinary how quickly this process played out. But that's actually what your members your party wanted.
HAYWARD: Absolutely, no question about it.
HAYWARD: I think Graham Brady as Chairman in the 1922 is been exemplary in this process. And it's worked well for the party. The bar has been set
pretty low. But the party is much more united than it was at the start of the weekend.
FOSTER: What was the appeal for Rishi Sunak because he was a very divisive figure, because he took on Boris Johnson? Many people blame him for
bringing down Boris Johnson ultimately. What was it ultimately that appealed to him this time around that didn't appeal just a couple of months
HAYWARD: I think that he was proved right syndrome in the 12th - he was spending his time saying this economic plan won't work for the following
reasons. And the markets confirmed his judgment.
So we're saying he was chancellor, his judgment was right. And he's now going to be Prime Minister. And can I just throw away, that it is highly
significant, that this is the first Prime Minister from an ethnic minority. The message that sends to a worldwide audience to your audience is really
FOSTER: But the same time he's very much seen as a figure of the establishment though, isn't he? You know, he went to, you know, a
prestigious private school, he went to Oxford and Stanford and he worked at Goldman Sachs. And he's seen as out of touch because he's so wealthy,
richer than the King was one of the headlines over the weekend.
HAYWARD: He does, it's the indication of what we regard as the American dream. He's actually living the British dream. He's parents came here, from
East Africa from a Punjabi family.
And the whole family, particularly Rishi has made a complete success. And can I speak personally, because I have a very, very close friend who is
himself, half Indian, Hindi. Absolutely overjoyed at this moment that his community. And the non-white community is reflected in society at its
FOSTER: It certainly is a historic moment, isn't it? Bianca. Not just who's been appointed what he represents. But also the amount of Prime Minister's
we've had further than a year.
NOBILO: Truly historic, I mean, if we look at the trajectory. I was just saying to my producer, we had David Cameron as Prime Minister for six
years, we had Theresa May as Prime Minister for three years, we had Boris Johnson as Prime Minister for two and a half years, Liz Truss was Prime
Minister for six weeks.
So but she still will obviously be hoping to stop that trajectory in its tracks. I have a longer stint in the building behind me. But I completely
agree with your guests.
It is a truly historic moment to have the first ethnic minority Prime Minister the first person of color the first Hindu Prime Minister. It's
actually Diwali today and the way that that's worked out poetically for the Indian community here in the United Kingdom.
But also I was speaking to an MP just that he was saying to me that he seems the right man to address this crisis. This is fundamentally an
economic crisis that the country is facing. He has experience as Chief Secretary to the Treasury and of course Chancellor for a very turbulent and
difficult period in the country's history, the Pandemic.
So he is considered a safe pair of hands, who's considered to be a very intelligent person. He also has been prepared to subject himself to more
media scrutiny than the other candidates. And contenders that he faced off against over the last few months, and the former Prime Minister, Boris
So I wonder if we can expect a slight change in the way that he interacts with the media and communicate. But Max, what Sunak does have in red
flashing lights, is some manual on what not to do as a Conservative Prime Minister. Because if we look at the last two, the downfall of Boris
Many would argue was hubris projecting this narrative that it's one rule for those who make them and another for the country at large. And that was
ultimately the most toxic element of his premiership at the end. And then when it comes to Liz Truss, she was a weak communicator.
And didn't give the markets enough advance notice of her bold plans that deviated from the status quo. Rishi Sunak, I'm told will be sticking more
to the mandate upon which the Conservative Party were elected back in 2019. And I'm sure those mistakes that will have been made by his predecessors
and ultimately led to their demise, or be in front of his thinking.
He'll be considering how he can unite the party. We shape the Conservatives restore trust confidence. And try and give them a bit of boost in the polls
where they're, of course, lagging considerably behind the opposition party.
FOSTER: In terms of what happens now, so what would you expect? We need to hear from Rishi Sunak? Don't we, we want to hear what his plans are.
Normally, the following day, we would expect the elected Prime Minister to head to the palace and meet the king.
But because everything's been moved around and sped up this time around, could it all happen today? Could he be appointed Prime Minister today do
you think? I mean, there's no break formality involved is there it's just a visit to the king?
NOBILO: That's correct, and there is an element of uncertainty here. And we're not entirely sure of the protocol.
NOBILO: Because of course, we've just heard that Penny Mordaunt's conceded which was expedited. And already truncated and sped up leadership contests.
I've heard earlier that it is perfectly possible that he will be appointed Leader of the Conservative Party and Prime Minister today.
The mechanics of that whether or not that will actually eventuate or wait to hear probably from the 22 committee from Downing Street or from Sunak's
team. That first we'll have him giving the speech to his party in around 15-minutes time. And that will be the first moment for those within his
party to start to, frankly, judge him and test him to see if he has the right stuff.
Because again, this will be no honeymoon period, just like with Liz Truss. And he has quite a considerable chunk of the party who were supporting the
Former Prime Minister, Boris Johnson. They don't necessarily have the best relationship with Sunak and his camp. It's his opportunity to show that he
does want to be the Unity candidate. I've heard from MPs that I've spoken to over the weekend, that Sunak has made an effort to reach out to those
who he isn't usually associated with sometimes doesn't agree with to try and have a fresh start.
And establish the fact that he doesn't want factions that he wants to choose the people. He can't say that best for the role and not because he's
made backroom deals or made promises during this very short and unusual leadership campaign, Max.
FOSTER: OK, Robert Hayward, so he will be going to the party presumably adjusts the party first of all.
HAYWARD: I would expect him to I've not heard the formal announcement. But I would expect him to speak to the party. As you said, he's got to go and
speak to the kingdom as well. But I'm sure that.
FOSTER: The appointment today.
HAYWARD: It could be, depends on the question of the position of the King in terms of availability processes, etcetera.
HAYWARD: I was involved in John major's leadership campaign. And present in number 11, when number when Buckingham Palace rang to say, you know, let's
fix up the time, let's make the formal arrangements. But it is although it's a brief process, it's a very formal.
FOSTER: Yes, I didn't mean, when I said that wasn't lots of formality. There's not a lot of complication. We just have to agree to meet.
HAYWARD: Absolutely, but they have to agree to meet. We don't know what the current diary looks like. So it's a brief process. But yes, it will be I'm
pretty sure it will be very, very quick.
FOSTER: On this question of uniting the party. I mean, there are parts of Boris Johnson's camp who hate Rishi Sunak. How's he going to build those
bridges? Was it a big deal today, people like Priti Patel to come out and support for Rishi Sunak?
HAYWARD: People like Priti Patel and Duncan Smith. And other people from the right wing of the party. That is significant, that was the bridge
The fact that the ERG couldn't agree on who they should support shows that there are some people who are still not happy. But overwhelmingly, it looks
as if the party is much more united than it was on Friday, although that's a pretty low bar. So progress, but not all the way there yet.
FOSTER: In terms of Liz Truss, obviously, we haven't seen anything of her since she stepped down. Is there some sympathy for Liz Truss at this point?
Because of the way she was treated or is this where it should have played out.
HAYWARD: I think there is always some sympathy for people who've lost positions. Whether that's an industry, commerce, politics, sport, or
wherever it may happen to be. But it was inevitable last week.
And now people can draw breath. And there will be sympathy for what sort of job. Would Penny Mordaunt have been offered by Rishi Sunak? I've no idea.
Funnily enough, I think they'll have discussed the processes of forming a government rather than you know what particular job she might want. He
might have something in mind. But I think it's unlikely.
FOSTER: We're going to see lots of Boris Johnson supporters, presumably on the cabinet to affirm to have got to this point.
HAYWARD: I'm hoping and I'm expressing a personal view now. That I'm hoping that will not be a massive shake up that we've had far too many ministers.
And one way of uniting the party would actually not be by not removing lots of ministers and putting others in place. So I'm hoping limited --.
FOSTER: --from Liz Truss, isn't it not to include Rishi Sunak supporters in her--
HAYWARD: It was a massive error. But you don't solve a problem by duplicating it. And under these circumstances, there may be one or two
Ministers who say, Look, I'm so close, so close to Liz Truss, that I don't want to continue. But there is a natural process of Ministers coming and
going in government.
And I think it would be no bad thing if Rishi actually said with one or two notable exceptions. I'm going to keep the ministerial team as is and people
FOSTER: To receive Boris Johnson not going to be in this government on the speaker circuit
HAYWARD: I think that's a fair certainty.
FOSTER: Is his political career over?
FOSTER: No, not necessarily.
FOSTER: Not as a backbencher --.
HAYWARD: No, he may take the view that I'm going to stand aside for two years through to the next general election. And then we'll see what
FOSTER: So he embarrassed initially his supporters by making them all come out to support him and --.
HAYWARD: The last few weeks, months and days of has not been great ones for the Tory party in general, to say the least which is why I say there was a
low bar on Friday. And we're above that now by quite a long way. But lots of people have made lots of errors.
FOSTER: Bianca, do you think there's any chance that the conservatives in this time. They've got before the next election can rebuild and potentially
win again under Rishi Sunak?
NOBILO: It's an enviable task and extremely difficult one. Because the Conservative Party brand has been eroded and undermined and damaged for a
variety of reasons across the years. The divisions caused by Brexit were largely unedifying, and cause the party to split.
Boris Johnson caused the most damage to the party brand in his approach to the COVID Pandemic. And the subsequent stories that came out about parties
in Downing Street and in government buildings which had a very visceral and resonant impact with the public at large.
Who couldn't see their family members who were sick in hospitals spend time together. Then Liz Truss, I mean, perhaps that will be framed as more of an
anomalous event. But that certainly has not helped it undermine Britain standing on the world stage.
Many have said that it's made the country appear to be more of a laughing stock. And obviously, that's a reputation that's built up over centuries as
a leader and a beacon of democracy across the world. So if Sunak can hit the ground running can address those concerns.
And frankly, the type of politician he is, should just by him being there address some of them because he is measured. He's not unpredictable. He's
slick, he's a good communicator. He's a hard worker, he appears to take the job and the jobs that he's had extremely seriously.
So I think it gives the party a chance. According to the polls that we've seen Rishi Sunak wasn't necessarily the most popular with conservative
voters out of the choices that were presented. But the country at large, at least felt like he would be a better Prime Minister than the others that
were on offer.
So perhaps that does give them a better chance going forward. But the Conservative Party will have to unite and also Rishi Sunak will need to set
out his stall. And properly introduce himself to the British people, and what and what he believes.
Because it's interesting in these leadership contests and because of the specter of Boris Johnson Rishi Sunak is often being framed as more of a
centrist in the Conservative Party but our viewers might recall, he supported Brexit.
He has taken quite strong right wing stances when it comes to issues like immigration. He said in the last leadership campaign that he was supportive
of the Rwanda asylum policy and he's a fiscal conservative. So we'll be interesting to see how he framed his policies and what kind of narrative he
wants to create with the British public about the Prime Minister that he's going to be.
FOSTER: OK, Bianca, thank you. Also, Robert Hayward, Member of the House of Lords thank you both very much, indeed. We'll have much more on this
breaking news with Julia after the break.
FOSTER: Welcome back to our breaking coverage of the British Conservative Party leadership. Moments ago we learned that Penny Mordaunt had withdrawn
from the race.
CHATTERLEY: Rishi Sunak, the Leader of the Party and Great Britain's next Prime Minister. He will also be the nation's first Prime Minister of color.
Mordaunt saying on Twitter, "we all owe it to the country to each other and to Rishi to unite and work together for the good of the nation. There is
much work to be done".
Let's get some context on this. Richard Johnson joins us now he's Senior Lecturer in politics at Queen Mary University of London. Richard, great to
have you with us! Your thoughts on what we've seen today anti-climactic in the end. But a swift decision on the next Leader of the Party and the
RICHARD JOHNSON, SENIOR LECTURER IN POLITICS, QUEEN MARY UNIVERSITY OF LONDON: I think was fascinating watching Boris Johnson's movements. And if
indeed he had 100 MPs, which it seems like he might have done. So he could have become Prime Minister on Friday.
But he chose to back out, I think, because he realized he couldn't govern the Conservative Party in Parliament. And that in many ways is going to be
the first task of Rishi Sunak is to get control of the parliamentary Conservative Party. You know, there'll be about 50 or so diehard Boris
Johnson loyalists in our party, who could be the tail that wags the dog.
They could, you know, use their leverage to try and get policy concessions. So I think he wants to try to basically build a broad church cabinet and
really make some overtures to all different wings of the party to start out as try and stabilize his premiership from the get go.
CHATTERLEY: And how does he do that? Because we've seen some of the most staunch Boris supporters, Priti Patel. We've already mentioned her on the
show in Duncan Smith coming out and saying Fine. Now Rishi Sunak is the candidate when you're building the next cabinet.
Rishi Sunak has to decide between continuity in the names of the Chancellor Jeremy Hunt. But also to your point building this united government in
order to promote to both the party and the country. That they can all work together and end the backbiting and the wars within wars.
JOHNSON: I mean it's clear what brought down the previous two Prime Ministers. Was that they lost the trust of their own party in Boris
Johnson's case? Because of his own management of scandal, in Liz Truss's case, really because she was too ideological in how she constructed her
Cabinet and her program.
She didn't do the kind of basic legwork of politics of building consensus within the party for particular policies. Doing some of that work by
getting you know outriders to back up that this is going to be a good policy, this is in the country's interest. This is in the party's interest
and so on.
Now, my sense is that Rishi Sunak is a more capable political operator than Liz Truss. So it'll be partly about personnel and who he puts in his
cabinet. But it'll also be actually about getting people in who are on his side in the party to actually make the case for the policies. That he's
pushing, whether that's making the case, in conversations with Conservative MPs, or going out into the media and making the case that way as well.
We haven't seen that kind of hard work done really, by either Liz Truss or Boris Johnson has been a lot of arrogance, I think of the most recent
conservative premierships and Sunak needs to learn the lessons of that.
CHATTERLEY: And who is he? It was fascinating because my colleagues, Max and Bianca were talking just before the break about what he actually stands
for? And this perhaps set perception that he's a centrist. But he's got some pretty tough decisions to make beyond the economy.
CHATTERLEY: And that, quite frankly, is enough for any one person. But things like immigration where he tends to take a hard stance Brexit,
another huge complication for the economy.
And at the moment, we're in this hard Brexit stance; does he have the power, the will the ability to perhaps soften that stance to which could
make a difference for the economy? Richard, how do you see him playing this?
Because he's got a lot of work to do in a very short space of time whether it's on the economy, whether it's on public perception or the running for
the Conservative Party, to the next election?
JOHNSON: The question that is he is a good one, you know, he's only been in parliament for seven years. He becomes Prime Minister with the least
parliamentary experience and well over a century one of the most inexperienced MPs to become Prime Minister in history.
That's not to say that he's, you know, doesn't have the talent or ability to be Prime Minister. But it means that he hasn't had a long time to
establish his track record. On the Brexit issue, I think it is interesting and of note, that within his first year as an MP, an ambitious MP with a
bright future ahead of him.
He decided to defy the conservative leadership, David Cameron. And back leave, which was not the position of the Conservative Prime Minister at the
time, he put himself at odds with them. So he surely shows himself to be someone who's willing to take certain risks, perhaps guided by certain key
Maybe some of these, you know, particularly he talked about, during Brexit, he was very interested in kind of national sovereignty on matters of
immigration but also agriculture and these sorts of things. It's funny how he's kind of more recently been presented as remain a choice; Liz Truss was
the lever choice. Even though Liz Truss voted remain.
That I guess gives him a sense of an ability to be flexible, which is no bad thing in this current time. And I think that if he wants to be
successful as Prime Minister. He really is going to have to show that he's willing to listen to all wings of his party. And try to be a conciliator in
the national interest.
CHATTERLEY: Flexibilities, OK pragmatism, perhaps at this moment is more important. Richard, very quickly, the party is going to hear we heard Chair
Graham Brady say that Sunak was going to talk to the party in a few moments time. When he talks to the country more importantly, very quickly, what do
you need to hear from him? What does he have to say?
JOHNSON: I think the economy is the big thing. And he has to restore trust in the economy and because he is the Former Chancellor and has now kind of
reputation has been someone who has had experience managing the economy, even if he's only been an MP for seven years.
That'll be quite important for him. People are worried about paying their mortgages. They're worried about the fuel winter fuel crisis coming up. You
know, the Conservative Party has taken a huge hit in the polls for a perception of poor economic management. And they have to try to reverse
that if they're all hopeful of holding on to government by the time of the next election.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Richard Johnson great to have you with us. Sir Senior Lecturer in politics at Queen Mary University of London. Our special
coverage continues with Max at Westminster right after this stay with CNN.
FOSTER: Britain's Former Finance Minister Rishi Sunak is set to be the country's next Prime Minister. His only remaining challenger Penny Mordaunt
announced about half an hour ago that she had withdrawn from the race here's the 1922 Committee's announcements.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRADY: I can confirm that we have received one valid prominent, Rishi Sunak is therefore elected as Leader of the Conservative Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Sunak will become the Prime Minister once he's been formally invited by the King, King Charles to form a government joining me now
Conservative Member of Parliament Roger Gale, thank you so much for joining us. You are paying more than supporter.
ROGER GALE, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE PARTY MP: I was.
FOSTER: We spoke to her this morning. What was her mood then because she was she seemed to be charging ahead with the race.
GALE: She was very chipper, she said in terms of the numbers were within the zone. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't make the 100. But she has
exercised her judgment. I respect that. We will now get behind Rishi Sunak and give him all the support we can in the national interest. That's what
we must do.
FOSTER: So feeding her she didn't get the 100 members of the Conservative Party in parliament to support her therefore she couldn't continue with the
GALE: Well, I think she may well have made the 100. We probably won't know that. We may leak out I don't know. But I think looking at the numbers that
Rishi has got. Had she had Penny gone to the membership? She might well have won. And then she'd have found herself in the same position as Liz
Truss with the membership binder.
GALE: The parliamentary party not supporting.
FOSTER: So this is the best solution for the party, you feel a one behind one figure.
GALE: I think it's the best solution for the country. I think now we can throw our weight in behind Rishi Sunak behind Jeremy Hunt as his Chancellor
of the Exchequer because he's going to keep him on.
I would expect that Penny Mordaunt will take one of the will be offered one of the senior officers of state. We've got Ben Wallace fighting the war in
FOSTER: So he is in defense leaving her foreign secretary?
GALE: That's a good for. And of course, the Foreign Office and defense have to work very closely together. Penny Mordaunt has been a defense secretary
in the past. She has also been Secretary State for overseas development, which is now part of the foreign office. It's a natural fit.
FOSTER: The big mistake Liz Truss made me many people argue is that she didn't include enough of the opposition in her government, which was Rishi
Sunak side effectively. Do you think Rishi Sunak would have learned from that to make sure that Penny Mordaunt and also Boris Johnson supporters are
included in his government?
GALE: Rishi Sunak is a very intelligent man. He can say the wit see the way the wind blows as the rest of us can? Yes, we need a party of a
parliamentary party and a government of all the talents. And I'm sure that's what Rishi will try to put together.
FOSTER: And what do you think his great ability will be? That's come out really in the last two months. Because the party wasn't ready to elect him
just a couple of months ago, what's changed?
GALE: I think what's changed is the realization that he was right on the economy. And the government of the day was not.
FOSTER: You're saying that he called out Liz Truss's economic plans during the election. And all of that has come to fruition?
GALE: Well, he was the Chancellor of the Exchequer; he knew where all the financial bodies were buried. And, you know, this is from now on for the
next few months. The priority is the economy, the economy, the economy.
FOSTER: And as you understand it, what will happen from now.
FOSTER: Do you expect King Charles call a meeting today? In which case Rishi Sunak could be Prime Minister by this evening
GALE: My understanding is that the form is that Mrs. Truss now goes formally to meet King Charles III, tenders her resignation. And then when
she leaves the palace, Rishi Sunak will be invited to the palace. And the King will formally recognize Rishi Sunak.
FOSTER: It normally happens day after, but it could potentially happen today. Because there would--
GALE: --be no bad if it did, because the man has to take Prime Minister's question time on Wednesday. And that's going to be a baptism of fire.
FOSTER: Exactly, this budget that Jeremy Hunt was put together. And that calm the markets to expect Rishi Sunak to get over involved in that having
been a Finance Minister himself before.
GALE: I don't think so. I think Rishi and Jeremy will work probably are already working very closely together. And I dare say Penny was working
with Jeremy as well, because they both agreed to keep him on.
He's doing a very good job under very good circles under very difficult circumstances. It would be madness to lose. When I see this I've described
as the Prime Minister is the Chairman of the board. And the Chancellor Exchequer is the Chief Executive from they have to work together.
FOSTER: We expected Rishi Sunak to be speaking probably now to members of the Conservative Party. Then he'll come up to the public presumably and
make a statement.
GALE: Yes, I imagine that --.
FOSTER: The big statement will be when he's appointed by the King and goes into Downing Street.
FOSTER: What do you think the headline from that will be?
GALE: Yes, I was get to say, I think he will want to study the nerves, study the markets, emphasize that he is determined with Jeremy Hunt to get
a complete grip on the economy, sought that out, shove us in the right direction, hard and fast. And we take it from there. The markets obviously
are the overriding priority at the moment.
Because everything else flows effectively from that so it's a very hard job a bit of me. Although I was supporting Penny, I'm actually quite relieved
for her because it is a poison chalice. But it's a poison chalice that if anybody can take up and drink from I think is probably Rishi Sunak.
FOSTER: For that he is saying the headwinds going into this premiership are absolutely impossible on they're now.
GALE: No they're not impossible. But the headwinds, it's going to be rough.
FOSTER: Because you've got to, you can't cut taxes, as the Conservatives would like to see, we've learned that from Liz Truss. Benefits, or rather,
spending rather is going to have to become cut back if the markets going to stay on board.
GALE: Rishi and his Chancellor are going to be between a rock and a hard place. But hey, that's politics.
FOSTER: What do you think the biggest challenge is just keeping the books balance?
GALE: No, I think the first challenge, yes, is to balance the books. But and this is absolutely true. And to this extent, Liz Truss was absolutely
right of course.
We've been flat lining in the economy for 10 years. We have got to get growth. How we get that growth is the Holy Grail. And that's what Rishi
Sunak has got to find for us.
FOSTER: It's been noted that he's the first Prime Minister of color in the United Kingdom. Do you think that's an important factor?
GALE: No, I mean, I'm perfectly content. It's it actually, to me, could not matter less. In fact I hadn't even noticed it until you mentioned it. But
again, it's we've had the first not first one, but the first three women Prime Ministers. We apparently have the first Prime Minister of color in
the Conservative Party, who are the modernizers.
FOSTER: You're making the point that there hasn't been a female Labor Prime Minister.
FOSTER: One of color. OK, thank you, Roger Gale, thank you for joining us, our British Member of Parliament. Our special coverage continues after the
break too, stay with CNN.
FOSTER: Britain's Former Finance Minister Rishi Sunak set to be the country's next Prime Minister. When will he be appointed it would normally
be the day after he becomes Leader, Julia of the party? But it could happen tonight potentially understand King Charles is on his way from San Diego
into London this afternoon.
So he's ready from this evening to take that crucial meeting with the new Prime Minister elects to make him Prime Minister. So we could have a Prime
Minister by tonight.
CHATTERLEY: Wow, dynamic, and there is no time to lose. So I think that's good news, quite frankly, let's get on with it this, of course, all coming
to play in the last few hours.
And without a fresh general election, of course, and therefore a public vote that's how the U.K. parliamentary system works. But Anna Stewart has
been getting people's opinions.
And Anna, I think a lot of people are pretty fed up with the political musical chairs and of course, the challenges in the economy too.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Yes, I think everyone wants to see some stability. But let's face the fact that this Prime Minister has essentially
been appointed by around 200 conservative members of parliament. Not even by the party members, and certainly not by the 46 million strong electorate
of the U.K.
Now, as you say, in the U.K., you don't directly vote for Prime Ministers, you vote for parties and party leaders. Of course, will go on to become the
Prime Minister if the party wins but we've now had three Prime Ministers in a very short space of time, less than two months and the last two.
And he's the last one and this one weren't voted for at all by the British public. And there is a growing sense; I think that there was a democratic
deficit here. And that people aren't really being considered, and that they really feel that what's going on at number 10 Downing Street is very
divorced from them. Take a look.
STEWART (voice over): Gravy boats and biscuit tins. This is a typical British car boot sale. Much like the American garage sale, or the French
flea market, it's an opportunity to sell unwanted items and buy something old. One person's trash is another person's treasure.
STEWART (on camera): Now the great thing about it British car boot sale isn't just what's for sale. It's what the topic of conversation for the
STEWART (voice over): Today that's an easy one. Another Prime Minister has resigned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Later on is what? Yes. Don't even remember her name.
STEWART (voice over): Given Liz Truss was only Prime Minister for six weeks. She may not be well remembered but her impact on the pound and the
economy at large maybe. Some have ideas of who should come next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boris Johnson in the wings. No, thank you. Rishi Sunak knows where he's at. He's a calm character he. So obviously I'm supporting
STEWART (voice over): Others aren't so sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where they can't be any worse than what we've had coming in. You know, they can't be any worse than what we've had.
STEWART (on camera): Do you think at this stage? We should have a general election?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, got a have one every way. I mean, this is a joke. You know, it's a total joke. We're the laughingstock of Europe and probably
the rest of the world.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And opinion shared by many. Everyone seems to think that the obvious thing to do is to have a general election. But the
politicians seem to keep faffing about in trying to keep the power in their own hands which is understandable from their point of view but not
necessarily from the people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See a general election now. So that people can actually say what they want. Yes, like we can't keep on having like
thousands of different Prime Ministers that have voted in by like, such a small group of people. I feel like a bigger voice is needed. Yes.
STEWART (voice over): The last four Prime Ministers have resigned. It sounds like a broken record. The Conservative Party is running short on
trust and possibly time with growing cause for snap elections.
STEWART: Well not included in that report what the entire lovely who just looked at me - eyes and said what a sham the people who said things that we
can't actually broadcast on television. In the UK general elections happen at least every five years so the next one doesn't have to happen till
Now, we do now have a Prime Minister, we will be once he's appointed by the King, who has the support of at least I think more than half of his party
and that party has a strong majority in parliament. So all being well, perhaps we can put political shocks behind us, perhaps the revolving door
of Downing Street will finally come to a stop, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Perhaps. And I think, to your point that voter apathy is important because people are, I think, sick of the politicians and the sort
of repetition of chaos and feeling underrepresented.
Speaking of that Anna, did you speak to people of color, because as we - if we keep saying is this is the UK's first prime minister of color itself,
hugely important, I think pivotal moment, for many people across the country and recognition of that. Did you speak to people, obviously, before
this moment of what that would mean? Did anybody really have the view amid the chaos?
STEWART: I have to say there was more interest in that I think more value being placed on it, perhaps in the last leadership contests where Rishi
Sunak was running. We spoke a lot about that, then and how important it was for people to feel represented by their politicians. But I have to say in
the last couple of weeks, really, nobody has wanted to talk much about any of the candidates at all. And I think that just speaks to the fact that
people are feeling so incredibly fed up at this stage.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and insecure, security, financial security Trumps all, I think, at this moment. Anna Stewart, thank you so much for that. All right,
up next, we head straight back to Max Foster in London, where history of course has just been made, as I just mentioned, Britain get set to place
their first Prime Minister of color, Rishi Sunak.
FOSTER: Breaking news this hour Rishi Sunak has won the race to become Britain's next Prime Minister, after securing the leadership of the
Conservative Party. Sunak makes history as the first ever British Prime Minister of color. He's also the youngest in more than 200 years.
He's just 42. Political Commentator Jill Rutter joins us now. Historical many levels, not least in the way that are all played out Jill?
JILL RUTTER, SENIOR FELLOW, INSTITUTE FOR GOVERNMENT: Yes, it was very interesting. We are expecting as of yesterday that there might be the whole
three candidates going through in the event both Boris Johnson and Penny Mordaunt withdrew or fell short of the threshold so couldn't enter the
contest and so we have Rishi Sunak emerging without having even to test his support among the MP's formally through a ballot. And as you say, now
conservative leader will be Prime Minister as soon as he have that important point appointment with the King.
FOSTER: He doesn't have the mandate though does he?
FOSTER: This has always been the issue is an issue with Liz Truss. It was an issue for Boris Johnson as well, for a long time, wasn't it? Literally
no vote, really at least a transparent one and if there was a vote is over 100 people, perhaps the vote of him into power, how much of a problem is
that going to be for him?
RUTTER: Well, I think in many senses, it's not a problem. I mean, we went for a long time when the Prime Minister Truss simply emerged from the
governing party, and there was no sense in which they had to win any sort of vote.
I think the issue is that, increasingly, the 2019 manifesting - manifesto that they were elected on back then looks massively overtaken by events,
first, the pandemic, then the consequences of the war in Ukraine. So it's really quite difficult to say we need to go back we can, we can do that.
I think a bigger problem for Rishi Sunak, in some ways was that he did run in the summer against Liz Truss. And although his views and skepticism
about her economic policy, were vindicated, that's why he's here now, and why Liz Truss is no longer Prime Minister.
He didn't win that vote among the members I think that is a bit of a bit of a problem for him. There will inevitably be calls for him to call a very
early general election. The opposition is almost on a bound to do that.
But the UK isn't a presidential system. It is a parliamentary system. So he may decide at some point that he wants to go to the country, he's
absolutely under no obligation to do that. I think a more fundamental problem for him is what's his authority, like within that incredibly sort
of fractious and fragmented conservative party that has brought down Boris Johnson brought down Liz Truss, and may regard Rishi Sunak is the Prime
Minister on probation.
FOSTER: But something interesting happened, didn't it? Those key Boris Johnson supporters, like Priti Patel came out in support of Rishi Sunak
this morning. So he seems to have found some sort of temporary solution at least, to bring those two, you know, very disparate wings of the party
RUTTER: Yes, but the question is whether he can hold that coalition on when he and his cabinet, one of the very interesting early tests will be does he
create a cabinet? That is a really reflection of the entire Brexit views within the conservative party in parliament?
Or does he do as both Boris Johnson and Liz Truss did and created sort of cabinet of loyalists, or in Liz Truss's case, a cabinet of really views
yes, for her programs. So I think the lessons of both their cabinets would be it would be better. If we went back to the sort of old view, the cabinet
sort of reflects your broad wits of opinion in the party and draw on as much talent as they could muster across the Brexit party.
But the problem of Rishi Sunak, I think, is that although people might have decided today, well, I'll throw my luck with Rishi Sunak. He's a better bet
than Penny Mordaunt, or he's going to win anyway. So I might as well be seemed to be backing him, rather than to be sticking out for the loser.
And there's quite a big element of that in the Conservative Party. I think the really interesting thing is can he keep this party together when he and
the Chancellor forced the party to confront some really difficult choices?
Liz Truss was discovering in her last couple of weeks, that when you lose authority as a Prime Minister, it's incredibly difficult to get the party
to take difficult decisions. We saw that she was knocked off positions a couple of times there.
So the really interesting thing that will be tested in coming weeks and months is just how far does Rishi Sunak rich run? And is he a good enough
politician to actually manage through this really difficult period?
FOSTER: Jill Rutter, thank you very much indeed. What we do know Julia is that he's immensely qualified. He went to a top British private school, he
went to Oxford University, did an MBA at Stanford, he worked for Goldman Sachs and Hedge Funds.
He's known to be rich that's been a big talking point during this cost of living crisis. But he's also known to be very qualified, and he steered the
British economy through COVID, which is seen as a great credit and perhaps it is all about the economy this time around, in which case, that's what
might have gotten through.
CHATTERLEY: If it is about the economy, and I agree with you, I think it is then he's the right man for the moment and he wholeheartedly benefited from
what he called the fairytale economics of Liz Truss and I think that's brought him to this moment.
I think the biggest challenge beyond COVID beyond the war in Ukraine big on the huge challenges Brexit of course and the challenges more broadly with
the economy is that our conversations today could have been very different had Boris Johnson not backed out even had Penny Mordaunt not backed out
because Rishi has in the past at least not been the most popular candidate with the members.
CHATTERLEY: In his first speech when we hear from him today, if we hear from him today is going to be vital to begin that process of establishing
him as a Prime Minister on a stage that can take the country forward and obviously can take the party forward too. It's going to be a fascinating
rest of day Max.
FOSTER: It really is and I think for the British people incredibly unsettling time as well. You and I covered the death of the Queen. We have
a new King in place. We now have a new Prime Minister in place, but the third Prime Minister in a year. I think everyone is really looking now
aren't they for some stability in their lives, in their political lives. I have to say one of the interesting things--
CHATTERLEY: I couldn't agree more--
FOSTER: --Julia at this point. But I want to complete the thought. You know the British people have been so disengaged from the whole Liz Truss saga
last week. I think now they - want to get back into some solid politics. We will be back in just a moment.