Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Musk Plans to Rethink Twitter's Content Moderation Policy; Apple's Quarterly Revenue, Profit Beat Expectations; Authorities in Kyiv try to Prevent Total Power Blackout; "Free Bird" Friday on First Move; Musk to rethink Twitter's Content Moderation Policy; Runoff Vote Takes Place Sunday after Polarized Campaign. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired October 28, 2022 - 09:00   ET



JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move", great to have you with us this Friday a historic day in the world of tech

with Elon Musk completing his $44 billion deal to buy Twitter. Musk becoming the owner of the troubled social media giant after a tumultuous

takeover drama that began way back in April.

How can we forget it ended this morning with Musk sharing this tweet, the bird is freed? And telling what feathers are well and truly flying. Musk

making his marks immediately his first move firing the CEO, the CFO and the Execs responsible for banning Trump on Twitter.

And of course, as we saw yesterday, crowning him, "Chief Twit" the question is what now will Trump be back? And how will Twitter change it for users if

at all?

We'll discuss all the ins and outs later on in the show with Venture Capitalist Bradley Tusk, the Founder of Tusk Ventures. Now Musk's deal

closing at an inauspicious time for financial markets to a Halloween season where the scariest word on Wall Street literally has been tech almost $1

trillion worth of market cap wiped off the biggest firms in just a few days Amazon, in fact, at the latest horror show falling 13 percent pre market

after posting weak results and guidance. And like Microsoft earlier this week, it's seeing a slowdown in a key growth area, cloud computing.

Amazon also seeing a soft holiday shopping season ahead, as does Apple by the way. All the details on what they had to say coming right up. In the

meantime, Amazon's plunge, pressuring the NASDAQ the tech heavy sector once again, as you can see there the index losing close to over 4 percent in the

past two days.

And it's now down more than 30 percent this year. Tech stocks in the meantime also getting crushed over in China the HANG SENG falling more than

3.5 percent in the session overnight to a fresh 13-year low. Truly the tech nightmare before Halloween Tech's ongoing pain and Musk begins his Twitter


And that is where we begin the show. Marc Stewart and Clare Guffey joins us now. And I know Clare; you in particular have been covering this all night.

So thank you for making it with us today.

Marc, I want to begin with you the deal is done. One cloud of uncertainty hanging over this stock clears. But the drama continues, including the

exodus of the Chief Executive, the CFO and others walk us through the last 12 hours.

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I was going to say Julia; it hasn't even been 24 hours since we last spoke on air. And so much has changed. We were

wondering what was going to happen next.

But yes, there has been a big exodus from the C suite. And that certainly is one of the big headlines so going now from Twitter's CEO Parag Agarwal,

as well as Chief Financial Officer Ned Segel.

None of this too much of a big surprise because especially between Agarwal, and Musk as we have reported over the last few months. It's been bit of a

frosty relationship. Of course, the other question remains what happens to the thousands of other Twitter employees?

Perhaps we will get some more direction on that later today. I also can't but help bring up the tweet that you mentioned earlier about the tweet from

Musk saying that the bird is freed. Well, evidence that this is a global company.

And when you make a tweet like that, it generates response around the world, including from Thierry Breton, who is the EU commissioner for

internal markets. He basically snapped back at that tweet saying the bird in Europe that is in Europe, the bird will fly by our EU rules.

Making a nod to the switch to the strict tech regulation that can be found across the EU because not only does the change in the C suite mean just

different faces. But Julia, as you well know, it also could signal a big change in philosophy and direction of the company.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely, and that's the key Clare comment on this. Because, as Marc quite rightly said, the question is what now? Will Former President

Trump be allowed back on the platform? Of course, he was banned in the wake of the January 6, Capitol attacks content moderation one of the big keys,

what do we think?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN WRITER: I think that we will see Donald Trump at least have his account restored on the platform. You know, he has said that he

will stay on truth social, his own social media platform. But it's hard to deny the fact that on Twitter, he had tens of millions more followers.

And it won't be a surprise if he decides to return. And it's not just Trump, a lot of the banned accounts on Twitter for controversial figures

could also have their accounts, restore them. And that will make a big change, especially ahead of the midterms ahead of the 2024 presidential



DUFFY: And beyond that, I think, you know, it'll be interesting to see what Musk decides to do. He said he wants to make Twitter a more maximalist free

speech platform. But he also had to walk that back a little bit yesterday telling advertisers that he didn't want Twitter to become a free for all

hellscape, where anything can be said with no consequences.

Because that would have advertisers wanting to run away so I think it'd be an interesting balance for him to try to figure out which, of course, is

the thing that all social media platforms are grappling with all the time?

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely, and if we take the politics and the specific content out of it, at the time of Former President Donald Trump's Twitter

ban. We asked whether a social media should have the power to silence a President or a world Leader and again, these questions coming back to the

fore in light of what Elon Musk does next.

But what about other options for monetization because, as Clare quite rightly pointed out there there's this juxtaposition between perhaps

wanting to be more free and easy with content and allowing this to be a free platform. But at the same time, if you want advertisers you need

those, add those eyeballs watching. But there are also questions about where you place those ads versus difficult, controversial content too.

STEWART: Right, ad revenue is everything at the end of the day. But let me throw out some business buzzwords, innovator, disrupter, that's what Elon

Musk has been. And that is what perhaps we will see in the future.

I mean, Musk has made no secret; he wants to perhaps develop Twitter into the Super App. Something similar to what we see in Asia, with encrypted

messaging in direct messages. So that is something that he could explore that perhaps hasn't been done before and could be seen as a way to keep as

well as court new advertisers.

I think it's also important to mention the relationship that he has formed with Former Founder of Twitter, Jack Dorsey; the two have talked about this

deal. He has, in many ways served as an advisor. This does not mean that Jack Dorsey is coming back to Twitter.

But it means that Musk has someone to lean on and when you take on a platform as large as this. And you have Musk's wealth, you want to get lots

of different opinions, lots of different direction and perhaps we could see that relationship with Dorsey strengthen even further.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's going to be interesting to see who he puts in charge or if he tries to take this on himself and put himself in that the CEO role

because boys Elon Musk already busy. Well, we're going to talk more about this during the show, guys, thank you so much for now Marc Stewart and

Clare Duffy there.

OK, let's move on the $44 billion takeover of course comes as tech giants continue to see their stock values pummeled shares of Amazon falling now 14

percent pre market after warning about weaker sales growth this quarter. As its crucial cloud computer business slows down so far this week Meta.

Of course, aka Facebook has dropped more than 22 percent and Alphabet nearly 6 percent. Rahel Solomon joins us on this. Rahel we have watching

all of these let's hone in on what Amazon said.

It's become a de facto bellwether for the U.S. consumer but a warning in there for the cloud computing business, which is something we heard from

Microsoft too. What's your take?

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is well, Julia, you know, this has been called the tech wreck of a week and Amazon really adding to that pain

for Investors. And you mentioned that shares were off about 14 percent pre market consider this Julia. After the Bell yesterday after the company

reported shares were off almost 20 percent.

So what did they say that spooked Investors because it was actually a pretty decent quarter, the current quarter, right? I mean, sales, revenues

and profits were roughly in line. Sales grew 14 percent versus last year. Although in its cloud business, those sales were actually soft, that

revenue was actually soft.

And in fact, it's what's just ahead in this current quarter this holiday quarter that really spooked Investors, Julia. The company lowering its

guidance quite significantly, essentially acknowledging that it expects things to get tougher. Now, one perhaps silver lining, as one analyst

pointed out in a note is that if Amazon is facing these headwinds, in terms of retail that.

You know, the other retailers are also absolutely dealing with these headwinds. And Amazon has a better financial cushion. Because it has those

really profitable sectors like AWS and advertising.

But in an environment Julia, of course, as you know, where there is so much pessimism, there is so much uncertainty. When you hear a bellwether, like

Amazon, as you pointed out, suggesting things are about to get worse. Investors don't like it.

CHATTERLEY: No, and they're certainly reflected that today. I mean, one of the things that the issues that they were talking about the impact of the

stronger dollar. And we've heard that from so many corporates with foreign earnings this season. And we heard it also from Apple, though, I have to

say if you're looking for a shining, shining example of outperform of this earning season, look no further than Apple.

SOLOMON: Exactly, Dan Ives saying it was the bright spot. Apple was the bright spot and an otherwise horror show for the tech players. Apple

actually seeing pretty solid growth for things like its iPhone for the Mac.


SOLOMON: Those sales were strong; in fact revenue grew 8 percent for the company versus last year. Just over $90 billion in the quarter that said it

also saw some weakness for things like the iPad. Also saw services come in a bit soft and this is what analysts are really keying into because

although it was a solid quarter, a bright spot, as you point out. Services were weak and some analysts are wondering, is that the sign of consumer

starting to pull back? Are they starting to pull back on their subscription still buying and really across geographies?

Julia, when you look at sort of where the iPhone sales were, sort of concentrated really all across the world still seeing strong growth. But

consumers are pulling back on services. And so analysts are starting to feel like is this the first sign of the shoe dropping with Apple?

CHATTERLEY: And we should continue to watch this space holiday season going to be critically important.

SOLOMON: Absolutely.

CHATTERLEY: Rahel Solomon, thank you so much for that. OK, this just into CNN, Paul Pelosi, the husband of U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, is

recovering after being attacked at the couple's home in San Francisco Friday morning. A spokesperson for the Speaker's office said the assailant

is in custody.

And the motivation for the attack is now under investigation. We're learning that he is expected to make a full recovery. Speaker Pelosi was

not in San Francisco at the time of the attack. And we will let you know as soon as we hear further details about his condition.

In the meantime, the head of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog is raising concerns about a potential North Korean nuclear weapon test, saying

"Everybody is holding their breath". He was speaking just hours before Pyongyang fired two short range ballistic missiles. According to South

Korean officials, they came down in the sea to the East of the Peninsula.

Ivan Watson has all the details. Ivan, let's just be clear, this was not any form of nuclear weapons test this 28th I believe missile test of the

year for North Korea but a very concerning warning coming from the U.N. nuclear watchdog. They're almost at the same time.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is I mean the tensions have been mounting on the Korean Peninsula for months now. And the

missile launches this blitz of missile launches that North Korea has been embarking on is evidence of that the 28 launch this year alone. It's a huge

surge from North Korea.

In this case, two missiles short range missiles believed to be fired around a 20-minute period around noon local time that flew east some 230

kilometers before splashing into the sea. The U.S. Military says that they pose no immediate threat to U.S. personnel or to U.S. allies in the region,

but they are concerned about it.

The South Korean Military has called this a provocation. North Korea has said that it's firing these missiles in response to Military exercises that

its South Korean rival has been conducting. In the past alongside the U.S. and Japan just this week, South Korea was conducting its own amphibious

assault landing exercises that CNN witnessed.

And there have been other rounds of exercises that North Korea is angry at as well. Other signs of tensions have been that North and South Korea have

been firing artillery warning shots into the buffer zone, the maritime buffer zone in recent weeks. That's another sign of trouble in the region.

And then there's the concern about a potential seventh North Korean nuclear test. And the question that we're hearing from the U.S. government from the

South Koreans is not if but when this could take place. So let's take a listen to what the head of the IAEA had to say about fears of a seven such

potential North Korean nuclear test.


RAFAEL GROSSI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY: While everybody is holding its breath about this biggest another nuclear test

would be yet another confirmation of a program which is moving full steam ahead in a way that is incredibly concerning. Further tests, of course

means that they are refining the preparations and the construction of their arsenal.


WATSON: Julia, the U.S. State Department spokesman has said that the State Department assesses that North Korea is preparing its test site. You had

senior U.S., Japanese and South Korean officials recently meeting they say that there will be an unparalleled response if North Korea does conduct a

seventh nuclear test.

But North Korea just last month passed a law declaring it a nuclear powered nation. And the North Korean Dictator Kim Jong-Un has said that there will

be no reversing of this status. It is questionable what kind of leverage the U.S. and its allies could have against Nora Korea?


WATSON: If it does, in fact, move forward, North Korea is one of the most isolated countries in the world. It faces huge sanctions. And it then went

further cutting itself off from the rest of the world and from international trade during the COVID pandemic, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: It's just deeply concerning. Ivan, great to have your context thank you so much for that Ivan Watson. OK, we're back after this, stay

with "First Move" and stay with CNN.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". In Ukraine parts of Kyiv were in the dark after the latest barrage of Russian attacks on the country's

energy system. Some power facilities have been set on fire as Russian missiles knocked out at least 30 percent of the region's power supply on


Electricity was restored in some areas, but officials say more than a quarter of a million homes in the Kyiv region are still without power. At

the same time Russian President Vladimir Putin tried to play down it seem fears of a nuclear confrontation with the West.

He claims he never intentionally said anything about using nuclear weapons in Ukraine and accused the United States and its allies of playing a

dangerous game by blaming Russia for the world's problems.


VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA: Russia is not challenging the Western Allies. Russia is just a sending it's right to exist and to freely develop.


CHATTERLEY: Joining now is Ian Bremmer, President and Founder of the Eurasia group and Gzero media. Ian, always great to have you on the show

also the Author, of course of "The Power of Crisis: How three threats and our response will change the world".

Ian what do you make of Vladimir Putin's comments? We spent a week hearing from Western officials about their concerns that Russia could perhaps use a

dirty bomb, as it's called in Ukraine as a pretext for escalation. These are more de-escalating comments, perhaps.

IAN BRENNER, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, EURASIA GROUP: I'd say their sideways comments kind of a holding pattern. Most important comment that Putin made

on the nuclear front was talking about Russian nuclear doctrine as a response to the territorial integrity being threatened of Russia. And of

course, the way that that is defined presently by Putin and the Kremlin is including all of the territories of Ukraine that they have illegally

annexed. Now, that means, in particular, this issue of Kherson, which you know, is the town the city in the South of Ukraine.


BRENNER: It's critical transit point infrastructure water for Crimea, where the Russians have recently announced an evacuation of civilians. They're

keeping troops there. They're still fighting. The Ukrainians are likely to retake that territory.

But this is also the territory where the Russian Defense Minister Shoigu, has been talking with all of the European, the American Secretary defense.

As well as in India and China, saying that there's going to be an attack, a dirty bomb attack by the Ukrainians. Now, no one thinks this is remotely


But there's an immense amount of effort that's gone into this from the Kremlin. And this is what has the White House and NATO Leaders spooked the

idea that if it looks like Kherson is going to fall that the Russians might be planning a false flag attack.

This is why Biden has focused so much in his commentary recently on threatening the Russians if they were to use a tactical nuclear weapon on

the ground in Ukraine. So I think the level of concern about that on the part of NATO leaders is about as high as it has been in the last two weeks.

I don't think it's changed at all from Putin's speech.

CHATTERLEY: I've seen some commentary suggesting that Vladimir Putin is trying to find points of maximum leverage, given. As you're describing how

under pressure, the forces are on the ground in Ukraine for future negotiation. Do you buy that? Or is there a greater risk, perhaps of a more

aggressive response under pressure?

BRENNER: I think Putin is trying to do everything he can to avoid further losses from his Military on the ground in Ukraine. They're underperforming,

and he's trying to get troops on the ground, even if though they're badly trained and badly armed to defend territory. And stop the Ukrainians from

taking more ground, which, of course gets harder for the Ukrainians as we move into the winter months.

This is that's the Russians don't have many options, right? So I mean we're seeing that the Russians hadn't been attacking critical infrastructure of

Ukraine in the first seven months of the war. Now they are and in the last three weeks, 40 percent of Ukraine's electricity grid has been damaged or


So much so that the Ukrainian government this week is telling refugees in Europe don't come back because the power grid can't handle the additional

strain this winter. They weren't saying that even a week ago.

So the Russians, I think, understand they're under pressure. They don't have good options in the near term. And they're using everything they can,

some of that is escalatory. Some of that is we're ready to talk, to try to avoid more embarrassing losses over the coming few weeks.

The coming few weeks are clearly in some ways, the most dangerous of the conflict so far because the Ukrainians are being quite successful in their

counter offensive. And the Russians are admitting that on state media, if you watch Russian media. They're not saying they're not pretending that

they're holding all that ground.

But they're saying that they're losing to NATO. They're losing to NATO weapons, to NATO intelligence, to NATO training. And of course, that means

that the likelihood this war expands from the Russian perspective is also going up.

CHATTERLEY: OK, so let's expand it further because at the same time as this, we've seen a dramatic consolidation of power over in China by Xi

Jinping. We can talk about what that means, sort of domestically and geopolitically.

But I want to ask you specifically about Russia at this moment. It's surely not in China's interest to see any kind of nuclear or otherwise escalation

particularly in their future relationship with the West.

If Xi Jinping is in their position with great leverage over Russia and then we do see some kind of dramatic escalation to have them turn around to him

and say, you had a moment in time where you could have done something, and you didn't. Is that pressure now on China to intervene and will they?

BRENNER: There's pressure, Julia, but I mean, the question is, how great is that leverage? I mean, the Chinese have far greater leverage over North

Korea than they do over Russia. And yet the North Koreans have done all sorts of things over the past years that the Chinese have not liked.

I mean, I remember some of their nuclear tests after the Chinese had guaranteed Americans just a couple of days before in previous

administrations that the North Koreans were not going to do that. And the Chinese were embarrassed they lost face.

So I mean, the Chinese you'll remember when Xi Jinping last met face to face with Putin, in Uzbekistan about a month ago the Shanghai Cooperation

Organization meeting. And Xi Jinping told Putin directly that they don't want this war to escalate. And Putin in his public comments said he

understood that the Chinese were not they had questions about the war.


BRENNER: Were you known, so there's some tension in the relationship. But literally a week after that meeting the Russians announced they were going

to annex these territories illegally and called up another 300,000 troops. So I question just how effective the leverage the Chinese have over Russia

actually is?

CHATTERLEY: Yes or how much they're really utilizing it. I guess you could argue that there's a there is a difference between what we're seeing versus

North Korea. And to your point about the fact that there's NATO nations involved here.

So the, the risks of something far greater are arguably higher. But you know I want to ask you about something else, which I also think is very

important geopolitically, as well as in the technology space. And that's the deal now between Elon Musk to purchase and take Twitter private, when

there are all sorts of angles that we can discuss here.

But for me, it crystallizes once again, your point about technic polar influence. You've got Elon Musk's sort of inadvertently taking sides in the

Russia-Ukraine war, providing the Starlink satellites to Ukraine. He's got interest in China, with electric cars and the operations that he has there.

I mean, he sorts of has a finger in many pies in terms of businesses. But he also has a finger in many pies geopolitically, as well, which I'm sure

in certain cases, he'd rather not have them, quite frankly.

And that's down to governments to step in and pay for things but in this moment in time, as the richest man in the world taking ownership of a very

influential and important social media platform.

BRENNER: So Julia, you and I have talked about this for a couple of years now. The fact that increasingly, a handful of technology companies, most of

which are based in the United States, effectively exert sovereignty in the digital space, they act as governments. And so when we talk about something

like the war in Ukraine, you have NATO countries that are providing weapons.

But you have technology companies that in many cases are doing a lot more for the Ukrainians than most NATO countries are. And obviously, that makes

them aligned. From a NATO perspective, it makes them belligerence from a Russian perspective.

But the decisions are not treaty bound, the decisions are being made by individual executives and the C suites in these companies. And in the case

of Elon, they're being made individually by Elon. Now, what's so interesting here is that SpaceX is really a national champion for the

United States, right?

I mean, the contracts are mostly the Pentagon, they're mostly NATO. And so I mean, not a surprise that they'd go in and support the Ukrainians. On the

other hand, Tesla's a global corporation also owned a large piece of which by Elon.

And that the Chinese are critical market for and now twitter, taken private by Elon. And very different perspectives, and all three of those companies

in terms of what they mean what they have to do geopolitically. So I mean, the real question is, how do you navigate those three radically different

models of geopolitical and economic influence that in some ways really do not work together well?

CHATTERLEY: I think you could have answered the question there. We're posing it. I agree, I mean, who knows --? Yes.

BRENNER: My answer is that if you're Elon right now, you don't want to be when you have business models that actually work geopolitically. You want

to be able to tell the U.S. government, they're the ones making the decisions. It's not me personally; you want to step away from geopolitics

as a CEO and owner, not lean into it. That would be my advice.

CHATTERLEY: I agree, someone else U.S. government has to pay for the Starlink satellites or someone else, quite frankly, and take a --.

BRENNER: And determine the geofencing that would be better for you. And then you can tell the Chinese and the Russians, not it, not my


CHATTERLEY: Agree, as always, it seems Ian great to get your wisdom, thank you President and Founder of the Eurasia Group, and Gzero Media. And of

course, as I mentioned, author of The Power of crisis, how three threats and our response will change the world, more after this.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! And a 70s Classic Rock Edition of the program apparently "Free Birds" the song on the Tech World Playlist as

Elon Musk closes his $44 billion deal for Twitter perhaps we could also add in birds that free by CO2 for all our younger first movers here.

Let's bring it into the 21st century cheeky. Musk himself tweeting today the bird is free, installing himself as the man in charge after a sweeping

executive purges so many implications for tech for politics and the overall public discourse in the social media world.

But particularly for this day on Musk seemingly aware of the dangers of unfettered free speech promising that the now privately held platform won't

become a "Free for all hellscape" not quite a hellscape perhaps but lots of pain this week for big tech.

Tech, in fact trying to bounce back in early trading after this week's latest fang failure Amazon it shares down some 14 percent in early trade

Apple however bucking the trend opening relatively unchanged you can see that three tenths of a percent higher after posting better than expected

earnings. And even Apple reporting weaker than expected iPhone sales and services too.

Now unlike Elon Musk, who carried a sink into Twitter Headquarters earlier this week, if you remember, tech earnings are far from in sync with

expectations this quarter. Bradley Tusk joins us now. He's the Founder and CEO of Tusk Ventures and the Author of "The Fixer: My adventures saving

startups from death by politics".

Just to be clear, he's not an investor in Apple, Amazon or Twitter. Bradley, fantastic to have you on the show! Let's talk Twitter Musk to

begin. Do you think this ends up being a good business decision for Musk? And does that perhaps necessitate not doing some of the things that are

required to fix it, be it content moderation or policing things like hate speech?

BRADLEY TUSK, FOUNDER & CEO, TUSK VENTURES: Right. And the first thing is trying to figure out why he did this in the first place, right? So Twitter,

as we all know, is not in and of itself a successful business at all and so why someone as registered - Elon Musk would want to own it. It can't be

because he wants to free the bird and put Donald Trump back on the platform to care so much about the First Amendment.

Nobody spends $44 billion to profess their love to the First Amendment. So there's obviously other reasons why he's doing this. To me from a business

standpoint, the one that makes the most sense is there's a bigger disparity between Tesla's actual value and its market value to pretty much any

company out there.

And the reason why is there's the reality of the company and the short of the hype and cult of Elon and the differential between the two results in

hundreds of millions of dollars in extra market cap value for Tesla and therefore from us.

So my thought is as he prepares to take SpaceX public, it is possible he says the hype machine of Twitter is so valuable to me it results in

hundreds of millions of dollars in incremental value for Tesla I could do the same thing for SpaceX when I take other companies public.


TUSK: So if I control the hype machine, I can really impact my share price that would make sense, it may not be why he's doing it from a business

standpoint, that's the best I can come up with.

My guess is, it's a little more the reality of he is an incredibly public person who has an incredible endless appetite for attention of pretty much

any kind. And when he feels like he needs attention, he will say and do almost anything to get it in many ways I like Kanye West or Donald Trump.

And so the nicer way to think about this is there is a long term business plan that he's actually has in mind. I think the more realistic is he

wanted attention and because he was so desperate for it's cost him $44 billion.

CHATTERLEY: Wow! I mean, there was so much in that. I'm sort of excited and struggling to know which direction to take it first. I mean, $44 billion,

is a lot to pay for, instead of PR and immediate for companies, particularly for Tesla, where he's never actually done that. And in a way

he prides himself on that.

But I mean, some would argue actually, that the share prices of Tesla, SpaceX, obviously a separate point, because it remains private is already

inflated by that hype. Can he get even more bang for buck utilizing, utilizing Twitter because as an investor, you've got to be really careful

here the way that you perceive any of these things?

TUSK: Yes, maybe? And what does it do you? Or is he how he would do it? No. But you know, he also figured out how to make Tesla's market cap vastly

more than it should be in the first place. And look, this is not someone who has a long history of respect for the SEC, and its rules so if the

reason not to do that, as oh, it's not allowed by the U.S. government that has never stopped him before.

CHATTERLEY: Can you make this profitable? Brad? I mean, it's, it's interesting, I mean, the business model, and I think most of us agree that

the advertising model of social media is part of what fuels the toxicity of the social discourse. You need eyeballs, eyeballs are attracted by extreme

content, controversial content.

And that sort of fuels the beast, in a sense, and this echo chamber of like-minded opinions and beliefs. So if you want to break that, then you

ultimately undermine the financial reason for owning or investing in some of these social media brands.

For me, I don't see the monetization, the bigger monetization potential, if you take him at face value, when he says that actually part of the reason

for owning this was trying to cut through some of the crazy and the noise and the extremism and the ability of a social media platform to silence the

president, which you can, you know, and you know, and have been involved in politics for many years.

And there are questionable - questions to be asked about that whether any social media platform should have that power? I'm sort of asking 40

different questions in one branch, you can answer how you--

TUSK: I got it. Yes, so I would say the first thing is in the question of whether or not a platform like Twitter can be profitable. Keep in mind,

there are new headwinds that hasn't even run into yet that are likely to happen. So there's a law in the U.S. government called Section 230 the

Telecommunications Decency Act.

I know that sounds pretty, pretty granular there. But what it does, why it's so important is it protects platforms from any liability from the

content posted by their users. So no matter what I post about you on Twitter, or Facebook, or TikTok, or whatever it is, you can sue me, but in

most cases, I don't have any assets to recover, but you can't sue Facebook.

You can't sue Twitter says result, entire business model developed to say, we need to maximize clicks to maximize advertising revenue, toxic content

gets more clicks than positive content. We can't get in trouble for it anyway, because we're protected by Section 230.

So therefore, we can do whatever we want. That may not remain. The only thing that I'm aware of in the 2020, Trump and Biden platforms that were

the same was calling for the repeal of Section 230.

It has bipartisan support, if that were to happen, the business model for every social media platform in this country will get far harder and far

worse. So I think not only is there not a sort of path to profitability, it might actually get a lot worse.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, this is also a fascinating question for Meta formally Facebook, because we're already seeing their traditional business

model being challenged by greater privacy controls from Apple. And we've seen that in the numbers now for a number of quarters.

You raise an interesting question and have done on numerous occasions, which is there's a regulatory role to play here as you just mentioned. As a

venture capitalist though, when somebody comes to you with an idea and says, hey, you know, I need funding, you also have a role at that point to


Is this a good idea? Is this also a good idea for society and will this be beneficial on Net beneficial? What are the negative externalities here?


CHATTERLEY: And I just wonder as you see, Mark Zuckerberg pivoting into things that most people don't understand to be honest virtual reality, the

Metaverse and what that means? How do you perceive that as an investor, whether it's from a potential social good aspect, monetization potential?

What do you see going on there because I think this is another time where we can ask that question about social good, net social --?

TUSK: If you look at the VCs, who invested early in Facebook and Twitter and Snap, I don't know that they could have envisioned all the negative

consequences that these companies would then bring upon society. So I don't think that they meant to unleash what they did.

At the same time, there's been a complete blockage of any sort of regulation that would make the platforms less dangerous, less toxic, and

less harmful. So what your point is really, really sounding Julia, because we're right now call it five to seven years away from some sort of pretty

developed version of the Metaverse.

The Metaverse will be so much bigger and so more immersive than web 2.0, that everything good about the internet will be magnified. But everything

bad about the internet will also be magnified. And if we can't deal with some of these basic issues like privacy, like free speech, like the ability

to protect your data, protect no not have teenagers, you know, being shown how to cut themselves or engaging eating disorders and all that.

Imagine what's going to be on the Metaverse when everything is feels 10 times more real. And so yes, I think it's really important that the

government now start thinking about this thing is coming, Meta alone spending about $25 billion this year on R&D for it.

And we've already failed to regulate the regular internet properly. It'll get a lot worse unless we start taking action. So yes, I think that the

risks are there. And I also think the fact that while Facebook stock is way down, Mark Zuckerberg is not someone I would ever bet against. And I think

just like he had a vision in the early to mid-2000s the terms most valuable companies in history, I think that were very well made go through that.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. These are some of the things that keep me awake at night to be honest, because we've been through a period and we've seen what's

happened and this is going to be way bigger to your point. And we have to continue this conversation but I'm out of time today. Thank you for meeting

us smarter. Actually I was like that when we thought we should reconvene Bradley Tusk, the Founder and CEO of Tusk Ventures.

TUSK: Sounds good.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. OK, up next, it's been called one of the most important elections in Brazilian history. We're live in Sao Paulo to look

at what's at stake as people head to the polls.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! Hits the last few days of campaigning in Brazil's Presidential Election, and it have been described as one of the most

important ever. Leftist Former President Lula da Silva is challenging the incumbent from the far right Jair Bolsonaro. Among the biggest issues are

inflation and rising poverty. And Paula Newton is in Sao Paulo for us. Paula, wonderful to have you on the show! Just tell us what's at stake?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So much, really, when you think about the division in this country, Julia among voters sounds so familiar to you,

right? We have a far right candidate, some would argue a far left candidate and they are going at it in some cases, this is about the culture wars.

The President Bolsonaro clearly getting a lot of mileage out of that but the issue is that the division here and the issues of such residency all

around the world take a look.


NEWTON (voice over): Millions more in Brazil now are armed and ready, ready to load, aim and fire. Gun ownership who can own them and why people need

them has become an election issue? And it's the President himself, Jair Bolsonaro who wants more Brazilians to bear arms, has loosened strict gun

ownership laws and made promises of more gun rights to come.

NEWTON (on camera): Win or lose Bolsonaro's armed masses aren't going anywhere.

NEWTON (voice over): One of the owners of this gun club tells us Bolsonaro is the best gun salesman he's ever had.

DANIEL PAZZINI, SAO PAULO GUN CLUB OWNER: He basically did free advertising, encouraging people to buy guns and defend themselves that way.

NEWTON (voice over): Daniel Pazzini tells me he believes Bolsonaro's opponent, Former President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva may try to crack down

on gun ownership if he wins, doubts that will work but like most gun owners, he's not chancing it. He's voting for Bolsonaro.

Many devout evangelicals too are faithful to God and Bolsonaro. Pastor Odilon Santos (ph) says it is his right to take the stand on politics and

influence others in his battle against abortion, gay rights, drug legalization.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our current president has an agenda aimed at protecting all of that those principles, which are a rule of faith and our practice.

NEWTON (voice over): As for Lula, he doesn't trust him, even though he wrote an open letter evangelicals saying he wouldn't touch religious


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His very public stances that he will regulate not just the church, but a lot of things including the media and social media.

NEWTON (voice over): To be clear, Lula has never said he will restrict the media, guns or religious freedom. Which brings us to the issue of

misinformation as presidential supporters at this rally claim Lula will separate Brazilians from their Creator.

They accuse judges and bureaucrats of shutting down free speech with new regulations aimed at stopping the spread of false information. Bolsonaro's

son tells us whose father is defending freedom and will fight what he calls censorship.

EDURADO BOLSONARO, LAWMAKER, PRESIDENT BOLSONARO'S SON: It's unbelievable. They just say this is fake news. Isn't that democratic as if they arrest


NEWTON (voice over): Lula meantime campaigns on reversing Bolsonaro's influence on social issues which he says have ruined Brazil. Believe me; he

says we are going to revive this country. In this tight presidential runoff it has been a ballot box trifecta, guns, God and so called fake news where

voters stand on each contentious issue will shape this country's future.


NEWTON: You know the contenders face off in a presidential debate tonight. Julia good luck to the fact checkers on that one. Look, I know how closely

you follow the economy here and not just that, but also environmental policy. What happens here in the next few days, weeks months, all will

affect literally all of us and that is not hyperbole, especially when you consider the diverse policy stance of these two contenders, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Right. The future of the Amazon and how we best tackle climate change and emissions in the future at core of this too? Paula great to have

you with us once again thank you Paula Newton there, more "First Move" after this.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Mortgages, interest rates debt for children especially those are big words and big concepts to understand.

But new technology is making it possible to learn about personal finance from a young age. In today's "Think Big" Anna Stewart reports on the money

management app for kids in Dubai.


ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): 10-year-old George and 7- year-old Molly are not the most typical of children. Yes, they study and they play but they also discuss their finances.

GEORGE: If I gave you 1,000 Dhuram she would say that like what's the point?

MOLLY: We get something good.

STEWART (voice over): The catalyst for this conversation is Edfundo. Built in Dubai, it's a mobile application that aims to teach children about


ANDREW TOWARD, CO-FOUNDER & COO, EDFUNDO: Edfundo is a family financial education and money management app that's built by teachers, which provides

families early access to personal finance.

STEWART (voice over): With the app parents can send their children pocket money digitally and track their spending. Their kids have a prepaid debit

card and a separate dashboard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have spent 146 and my safe - is 25.

STEWART (voice over): Where they can set personal goals.

TOWARD: So what do you think you're going to save for?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe I'm going to save for a BMX.

STEWART (voice over): The idea is for children to learn while engaging themselves in real life spending.

TOWARD: They can really manipulate exactly what they want to do, and essentially operate within a real world situation by learning through


STEWART (voice over): Worldwide, only 17 percent of adults claimed to have a high knowledge of finance in a 2020 survey conducted by the Organization

for Economic Cooperation and Development. Making sure children's start becoming aware of key financial concepts is a goal for some parents and


NAN MORRISON, PRESIDENT & CEO, COUNCIL FOR ECONOMIC COOPERATION AND DEVELOPMENT: It's really important for kids to understand all this as

they're growing up, not to scare them, but so that they have the language and vocabulary so they understand what these things are because if you know

what the deal is, you won't get hurt.

TOWARD: Do you want to add a photo of--

STEWART (voice over): Well, apps like Edfundo might help finance the role parents and teachers play is still fundamental in the process.

MORRISON: If you think about it, the first time you went out to play a sport, somebody probably came with you. And learning about money is a lot

like that. The apps to me fit in to a broader group of tools that can be used by students, teachers, and parents to help their kids are more about


STEWART (voice over): George is working hard to achieve his goal of getting the BMX Bike and he has chosen isn't a very well thought out deadline.

GEORGE: I believe I should save up until December 23rd it's my birthday so if I don't need to go my dad can buy for me.


STEWART (voice over): So the family may have a long road ahead as they teach their kids about finance. But today's tools like Edfundo could make

the journey more fun. Anna Stewart, CNN.


CHATTERLEY: And that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages you can

search for @jchatterleycnn. "Connect the World with Becky Anderson is next.