Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Ukrainians Face More Blackouts as Temperatures Plunge; New Infections Hit Record High for Second Day; Holiday Challenges Ahead for Global Supply Chain; United Nations to Probe Iran Human Rights Violations; Retailers Offer Bitcoin Rewards to Keep Customers Loyal; U.K.-Based Drone Delivery Firm Seeks to Take Flight in UAE.. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired November 25, 2022 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Julia Chatterley, and welcome to the show this Friday.

And we begin in Ukraine and the desperate battle against the elements to restore heat and light to hundreds of thousands of homes. Repair crews are

up against bitter cold, heavy, rain and strong winds, which are hampering efforts to restore power supplies. Half at the capital Kyiv is reportedly

in the dark following Russian missile strikes two days ago.

And the weather forecast is bleak. This just gives you an idea of what they could dealing with in the days and weeks ahead. Residents have also been

told to prepare for more blackouts. And just to give you a broader sense here, doctors in Kyiv carried out a heart surgery on a child by flashlight

after the hospital lost power half way through the procedure. The U.N. human rights chief says Russia's attacks on the Ukrainian energy network is

causing extreme hardship for millions of people.

And NATO's secretary general had this to say a short while ago.


JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: What we see now is that President Putin is trying to weaponize winter. And by deliberate attacks on

the cities, on civilian infrastructure, he tries to deprive the Ukrainians of gas, heating, water. And this just stand straight once again the

brutality of this war.


CHATTERLEY: And CNN International Correspondent Sam Kiley is in Zaporizhzhia for us now.

Sam, we're just painting a picture of an ongoing and escalating humanitarian crisis in Ukraine.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is, Julia, but I don't think any Ukrainian is surprised. They are used to the fact that

they're at war. They've been at war with Russia since 2014. There was some surprise, really, that Putin's military machinery didn't go after the

critical infrastructure on day one of this campaign, perhaps because they thought they would win it quickly rather than what they're trying to do,

which is cripple Ukraine's ability to function, to function as a democratic nation, to function as a pro-European democratic nation. That ultimately is

the Russian aim. And, therefore, going after the infrastructure is to be expected. It is part of the military campaign that the Russians inevitably

are waging here.

I think from the Ukrainian perspective, consternation coming from the United Nations from NATO, describing this as a humanitarian crisis or even

a widespread of abuse of human rights is being treated with the degree of kind of eye-rolling from Ukrainians who were saying, well, yes, duh. What

we need is surface-to-air missiles to stop this happening. And it's surface-to-air missiles have been relatively slow in coming, particularly

the very sophisticated Patriot-type missiles that they're demanding. They're saying, if we get the right missiles, we will be able to protect

our airspace and then we can more effectively prosecute the campaign on the ground, Julia.

But for the rest of the country, these are now almost routine levels of steady state denigration of the national infrastructure, particularly the

energy infrastructure. Seven mass attacks by cruise missiles by Russia coming almost weekly right across the nation. Most of those missiles do get

shot down. Those that get through denigrate and -- degrade rather the national infrastructure to generate energy and make life a lot harder for

Ukrainians. But it could get an awful lot worst.

What the Ukrainian government is saying is that we are getting things back up and running pretty quickly. We are managing to get power to those

locations where it is most needed. But life gets a little bit tougher with every week that goes by, and, of course, temperatures drop as the weeks go

by too and winter begins to deepen, Julia.

CHATTERELY: Not exaggerating when the government says this is likely going to be the worst winter they've had since the Second World War. Yes, what

more can we say? Sam, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for that, Sam Kiley there.

Okay. Let's bring up to speed now with some more World Cup wonder brighter subjects, Iran beating Wales, would you believe, 2-0, with both goals

scored in extra time. The Welsh team competing with just ten men after Goalkeeper Wayne Hennessey was sent off.


This is also comes the showdown, at least some of it, are eagerly awaiting England versus the USA with kickoff in just under five hours time and


Amanda Davies is in Doha for us too. And not to mention Amanda, too, there is a key game for the Qataris taking place as we speak now as well for

their World Cup prospect. So, talks us through. Clearly, lots of anticipation there.

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORT: Yes. these games really are coming thick and fast. This is the first day of the second round of group stage matches,

as you are aware. We got our attention back on Groups A and B. I'll give you quick mention of what's going on with the Qatar game against Senegal.

Qatar Coach Felix Sanchez had said he just wanted his team to bring their A game to this match after such a disappointment in their long-anticipated

first ever World Cup encounter that set this tournament on the way on Sunday. But I have to say, they are currently one goal down at halftime to


They had quite a strong penalty shouts turned down and I think they're playing better than they did on Sunday but still not completely winning

over the fans or the pundits at this point, a long way to go with that one.

But in terms of the match that has been completed already today, an incredibly emotionally encounter between Wales and Iran. The Iranian coach,

Carlos Queiroz, in the buildup to the match, had said, please just let my boys focus on the football. They have said their piece in terms of the

antigovernment protests. They have shown solidarity to those who are suffering at home. We saw how that all impacted them in that opening defeat

to England. They were beaten 6-2.

But against Wales, they were very much regrouped. It was a really dogged performance from Iran with a lot of emotion from the crowd who booed the

anthem as it was played before kickoff. As you mentioned, Wayne Hennessey sent off for Wales with six minutes to go. Iran very much took advantage,

so took the victory, 2-0, and now have given themselves a great shot of making it out of the group stage into the knockout rounds for the first

time in Group B.

It really does set up a sensational finish to that group. They take on the U.S. next week. But ahead of that, England against U.S. later this evening.

It's very difficult for me, I'm afraid to say, to be neutral with this one. High hopes for the England team, ranked fifth in the world. Many people's

amongst the favorites for this tournament. Gareth Southgate has said they still need to be better than that performance earlier in the week against

Iran. They won't make it through with a game spare. Harry Kane has been declared fit to play.

But the U.S. are thriving on that title that they've been dubbed as underdogs and hoping to case another upset against England, as they did in

1950 and 2010.

CHATTERLEY: I was going to say, fingers crossed for Iran because I think a lot of people are behind them emotionally. But, of course, that has huge

consequences, of course, too for the English team.

Very quickly, Amanda, any predictions on the result of that match?

DAVIES: That's really very unfair, Julia, because I'm completely professional, of course. England have been -- they really got a very

confidence-boosting, big scoring win in their opening game. I don't think it will be quite as big against the U.S. because these two teams know each

other very well. So, I think it will be an England win but maybe a couple of goals in it this time.

CHATTERLEY: Okay, there we go. We shall see. I'm not going to respond to many predictions. So, I'll put you in the hot seat and then stay away from

it myself. Thank you, Amanda, great to have with us, Amanda Davies there in Doha.

Okay, far more serious now. China is reporting its highest daily numbers of COVID cases, new COVID cases, since the pandemic began, and that for the

second day running now on the ongoing impact too of Beijing's strict zero- COVID policy seemingly apparent once again on Thursday night. Ten people lost their lives a fire in a residential building in Xinjiang, where COVID

restrictions seemed to have delayed firefighters from getting to the scene.

Selina Wang joins us now from Beijing. Selina, one of the many stories that we've heard and that you've been reporting on, what more do we know about

what happened here?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes Julia. In this case, it is sparkling nationwide outrage because it really strikes a chord when we've seen these

stories of tragedy over and over again because of the lack of ability to get that emergency care, to get the ambulance, to get the fire trucks there

during these lockdowns.


Now, this fire broke out in the capital of China's far west Xinjiang region on Thursday night. Ten people were killed and nine injured at an apartment

building from that fire in Urumqi.

Now, most parts of Xinjiang have been under lockdown for more than 100 days. That delay fire sparking nationwide outrage after widely-circulated

videos, which have now been censored in China showed that COVID lockdown measures very likely delayed those firefighters from getting to the scene.

State media claims that people in the compound were allowed to leave the building, that it was considered a low risk COVID area. But the videos show

fire trucks unable to get close to the scene because the compound entrance, we were showing that video earlier, is partially blocked. The video shows

that it is blocked with fences, tents, metal barriers that are normally used as part of COVID measures.

The video you're seeing there also shows smoke and flames coming from that high floor of the building, but the water actually failing to reach the

fire because the help is not close enough to the scene. What adds to the tragedy, Julia, is that those who died in the fire likely spent their last

three months largely confined to that building, if not, entirely. So, Julia, this just another striking stark tragic example of the type of

suffering we've been playing out for three years now.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, the futility of those scenes there, and you can see the water just hitting the building too low.

(INAUDIBLE) back to what you and I have now describing now for many days, whether it's the human cost here or the challenges in the manufacturing

sector and the protests that we saw in the Foxconn building, it sort of ties, I think, more broadly to the story here, which the perception, I

think, that China is an unreliable supply partner. There are concerns over how long this goes on. And, of course, the broader backdrop over the

tensions that we already see with the west over things like intellectual property and technology. And I know you've been looking at that in light of

what we're been seeing too, Selina?

WANG: Yes, exactly, Julia. I think the Foxconn protests really brought the focus back to China. Because for so long, it was seen as such a positive

part of a Apply, that they're able to have this superefficient, very low cost but highly capable workforce in China that could very cheaply pump out

the assembly, the manufacturing.

But now, we are seeing who these snap lockdowns really, really make it a risk factor. And a lot of the news on U.S.-China relations was covered with

these handshakes and smiles at the G20, but underneath that, of course, intense competition in so many areas, especially over key semiconductor

chips. The Biden administration unveiled export controls last month. That really hit at the very core of China's technological ambitions.


WANG (voice over): China wants its 2 million-strong military combat-ready, but war is already playing out between the U.S. and China on the

technological battlefield. New export controls from the Biden administration choke off China's access to advanced computer chips,

throttling China's high-tech ambitions.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Those tiny computer chips --

WANG: Washington upping the ante. Just weeks before, U.S President Joe Biden and Chinese Leader Xi Jinping met in Bali where they promised to

stabilized U.S.-China relations. But fierce competition on technology set to intensify despite the handshakes and smiles.

ARTHUR DONG, PROFESSOR, MCDONOUGH SCHOOL OF BUSINESS, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: This act is unprecedented in terms of modern times. This

certainly poisons the waters further.

WANG: The goal, to protect America's national security interests, by stopping China from advancing its military capabilities, that Washington

says includes weapons of mass destruction. But America's latest move hits virtually all of China's industries, because almost everything has a chip

in it, your smart phone, car, refrigerator.

JAMES LEWIS, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: This is had a tremendous effect on the Chinese economy.

WANG: Beijing claims Washington is strangling the country by the neck. Chinese readout of Biden and Xi's meeting at the G20 said, starting a trade

war or a technology war, pushing for decoupling and severing supply chains run counter to the principles of market economy. Such attempts serve no

one's interests.

China has poured billions of dollars and years of effort into building its semiconductor industry, but it still lags far behind the U.S., Taiwan and

South Korea.

LEWIS: When you talk to Chinese officials, they say it's probably put them back a decade, right, in their effort to obtain an indigenous source of

advanced microprocessors.

WANG: Xi Jinping is urging the country to be self-reliant in technology and innovation, telling chip engineers at a factory to grasp the lifeblood

of technology in our own hands and prepare for even more restrictions from Washington.

JORDAN SCHNEIDER, ANALYST, RHODIUM GROUP: I expect these types of export controls to be rolled out in lots of other key strategic industries.


WANG: The new rules bar the export to China of advanced chips made anywhere in the world using U.S. technology, bans U.S. companies from

selling tools needed to make those ships, restricts Americans from supporting chip development at certain manufacturing facilities in China,

cutting China off from critical talent.

The U.S. sees China as its biggest long-term strategic threat that has the power and intent to reshape the entire an international order. So,

Washington wants to stop selling anything to China that could later be used against the U.S.

But as China turbochargers its homegrown industries, the battle for technology supremacy is only beginning.

Selina Wang, CNN, Beijing.


WANG (on camera): And all of this obviously having a big impact on the global companies that sell into China. U.S. chip toolmaker Lam Research

said it could lose between $2 billion and $2.5 billion in annual revenue in 2023 as a result of these U.S. export curves (ph). And it might just be the

beginning. Experts tell me they expect U.S. export controls to be rolled out in other strategic areas, including quantum and biotech, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And, of course, it also has huge implications for those looking to shop for those digital gadgets this year and beyond as well,

which is where we're going next.

Selina Wang, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for that report there.

And across the world, shoppers are chasing discounts as Black Friday gets underway despite concerns regarding high prices and squeezed budgets. The

president of e-commerce firm Shopify told CNN earlier today that people are still searching for those all important bargains.


HARLEY FINKELSTEIN, PRESIDENT, SHOPIFY: We were already seeing numbers slightly up from last year based on Thanksgiving, peak sales per minute.

And I think that one of the other major takeaways from this season is this Black Friday, Cyber Monday period is no longer just a weekend, it has

really become a season. And I think a lot of consumers were shopping earlier and looking for discounts.

But the major trend here is intentionality. We really are seeing that consumers are buying in a very intentional way. They want to buy from the

favorite brands. They do want to find discounts, but they want to support their favorite brands. And they want to buy direct as much as possible.


CHATTERLEY: And Alison Kosik joins us now from one of New York's shopping Meccas, Macy's. Alison, this could be quite a dangerous gig actually to be

said to if there's halls of excitable shoppers willing to mow you down or elbow you out of the way exactly. Tell me what it has been like so far this

morning and certainly what 9:20?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: You know, Julia, this is why I love my job. Who would want to stand in the iconic Macy's Department Store

right in the middle of Herald Square in New York City and watch happy shoppers just run around the store and look for those bargains that you

talked about? It is those deals, Julia, that is driving shoppers into stores this holiday shopping season, especially with the weight of

inflation upon them.

Just today, Black Friday here in the U.S., a whopping 115 million people are expected to shop just on this day. More than half are expected to shop

in-store. I haven't even mentioned the long weekend of shopping, which actually started on Thanksgiving Day and ends on Cyber Monday. 166 million

people will shop during this long holiday shopping period.

And like I said, they are looking for those deals because inflation is that elephant in the room. I have talked a lot of shoppers who told me that they

are really sticking to budgets this year and it's the deals, it's the discounts, deals and discounts like this one, 60 percent off the original

price, this is the kind of stuff that brings people in stores, like here in Macy's, and really the deciding factor on what they are going to buy,


CHATTERLEY: Yes. There are so many every shoulder there putting a shopping bag inside of another shopping back. That is a strategic way to look like

you are shopping less than you are. Alison Kosik, thank you so much.

KOSIK: That's an interesting tip.

CHATTERLEY: I know. Or online, that also hides it. Alison Kosik, thank you for that.

Okay. More First Move after this. Stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to First Move. And as you were just hearing, as consumer spending kicks into high gear ahead of the holiday season, the

pressure for retailers to source products from around the world in good time and at the right price. Right now, shippers are grappling with high

fuel cost, tight spending budgets. And here in the United States too, potential rail strikes that could impact up to 40 percent of cargo imports.

There is some good news though. Just take a look at the fall in shipping costs over recent months. You can see that peak was back in September of

last year. That's something my next guest knows all about. Flexport is a logistic tech using the cloud to simplify the supply chain using digital

technology. And while they don't own any ships, planes or trains of their own, it is their software that is driving freight around the world.

Ryan Petereon is the founder and co-CEO and joins us now. Ryan, some logistics for the 21st century, I think, if I can say that. I also think

that probably over the last two and a half years, you have seen and done it all with the challenges that we have seen. Just explain and put that fall

in shipping costs into perspective for us please and tell us what you are seeing currently.

RYAN PETERSEN, FOUNDER AND CO-CEO, FLEXPORT: Yes, good morning, everybody. I think it is great news. So, Flexport is a logistics technology company,

we help thousands of brown ship all of their products into the United States. And so our customers are feeling a huge amount of relief that

shipping prices have come down, as far as they have. Last year, you saw a peak of almost 20,000 shipping containers from Asia to the U.S., long run

like the last 20 years. You can really think it's more like $2,000 is kind of the rule of thumb and we are back there.

And you need that. You need something that is much more sustainable. These businesses, the economic models are built off of affordable shipping and

sort of the thing that we take for granted, it has feeling so much economic prosperity around the world for the last few decades. And so we are back to

relative normalcy there.

And also transit times last year, you saw those famous images of the ships waiting off the coast of Long Beach, where there was like 100 ships at a

time just sitting there and waiting. That is all gone away or for the most part, has gone away. And so the transit times for getting product from Asia

to the U.S. are back to almost normal. It's still taking a little bit longer. There's still some congestion in the ports and with the trucking

capacity. But things are normalizing, co brands can count on their shipping again.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's good news for the brands. Does it take some of the shine off of your edge? Because the way that I view your business, and

perhaps you can explain it, is you digitally have a sense of where things are moving, where the opportunities are. You can say, look, we're going to

utilize this person to get these goods from here. We're going to use this warehouse over here to store it for two weeks.

Does the fact that we are seeing some of those kinks come out of the supply chain actually make the capabilities that you have in terms of

understanding the data around the world actually sort of less useful?

PETERSEN: Well, certainly, we were never more useful than the last couple years.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I agree.

PETERSON: Normally, we were more kind of in the back office, you don't think that much about your shipping, you just kind of take it for granted.

Certainly, the CEOs of not getting involved, they're working on their brand and on their product, on their marketing, et cetera.

The last couple of years, we did more CEO meetings, sea level meetings than probably ever in our history as an industry.


Not really where we want to be. If I'm getting called in front of the CEO of a company, something is probably not great.

So, we are happy to be in the background and just make things run smoother as an industry. And our technology still as a huge role to play, there's

always going to be bottlenecks, there's always challenges and technology makes it much easier. So, for example, at the port of L.A. right now, where

we have our mobile app on truck drivers and we are running much more efficient turns to get containers out of the port than someone who doesn't

have this technology, that is going to last forever. So, I think there is a huge role to play.

CHATTERLEY: That makes sense to me.

Just in terms of how much time on average you can save by using your technology relative to traditional forms of utilizing the supply chain,

what are we talking about here? How much time --

PETERSEN: Yes. Well, you see a huge headcount savings in your supply chain and teams. And it is not just like your transportation teams that use our

tech. That's what's really interesting, is that we bring the finance team in here. They have to pay the bills for both the logistics and they are

buying merchandise from overseas. And we give them data on which bills are ready to be paid. Have the goods arrived or not, right? And you don't want

to pay for goods that haven't been shipped yet. We are bringing marketing in sales teams and here to be able to understand when are there products

and stocks so that they can run their campaigns and let their customers know.

And so it is really that communication overhead that we are saving people. So, it makes brands much more efficient, but more importantly, it makes

their customer experience better if they can inform their customers exactly when their products are going to arrive. Sometimes it's late, but if you

can tell the customer, you can preserve that customer experience.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. But your point about your financing actually is vital in a world where interest rates are going up, and you don't want to be paying

perhaps earlier than you should be. And you can keep that cash in deposit or do something else with it. So, that is actually a critically important

point to understand. Data is key though, for me, for your business and what you see and it helps you build a pattern of consumption that we see around

the world.

And at least as far as your latest sort of consumption and research reports suggests, you are also not concerned about recession risk. Your are not

seeing at least in the data that you are collecting. Walk us through that and give me a sense of global geography too, because you also have a really

good picture around the world?

PETERSEN: Yes. So, Flexport is now the sixth largest ocean freight shipping company on the Pacific Ocean, which is the largest trade lane. We

are sort of like top 20 on Asia to Europe lanes and U.S. to Europe trade lines. We're much smaller in Latin America and Africa, although we are

shipping to 112 countries. So, we do have data everywhere, but our samples are much more rich on those bigger markets.

What we are seeing is -- and we have a small economic steam. So, for every single shipment, we see the commercial invoice, which tells you what

exactly is inside this container or on the air freight pilot. What is in there? What is its value? It is really, really granular, rich data.

And we have got a small economics team that analyzes all of this to say what is happening in the world. They also read over 1,500 company reports

to get a sense of where people are, with inventory levels, looking at government data, GDP and other sort of consumption data. And they picture

that they are painting is that actually we saw, so far, in the last 90 days, we see a 1 percent increase year-over-year in real dollar terms,

meaning adjusted for inflation in consumption of goods.

So, that does not mean we are not concerned about a recession. I certainly personally am quite concerned. I think the interest rate rises is going to

will be a big deal. People are kind of spending through their savings right now. And that is not a great place to be as a society, spending through

your savings. So we are quite concerned. But Flexport has an incredible data picture, and what we are seeing so far from our data is consumers

holding up, people are still spending.

And now on the shipping side, brands are overstocked and, therefore, shipping a lot less. We have got about 20 percent less imports year-over-

year entering the port of L.A. than year prior. So, that -- at some point, they are going to spend through all of this -- sell through all this

inventory and need to start ordering more goods. But for the meantime, it looks like a deep recession in the freight industry.

CHATTERLEY: That is really interesting. I mean, we spoke to the chief of the port of L.A. recently. And we were talking about the union negotiations

as well and what part of that slowdown that we are seeing is because there is too much inventory, so they need to import less, or people are just

rerouting elsewhere because they don't want to deal with potential snarls there as a result of the unions.

Do you have a sense, Ryan, of how much is the former versus the latter?

PETERSEN: It is a little bit of both. That's a very good and astute point. There is a little bit of both. But other ports are also down, maybe not

quite as bad as the West Coast, but East Coast ports are also down considerably over last year.

But you are right. People are worried that there's going to be a union strike. They don't have a contract right now. They're sort of in this

period where their contract has expired, and, thankfully, they are still working even without the contract being renewed.

But brands are where that there will be a strike, so they started routing goods through the Panama Canal just in case, because it's a different union

operating on the East Coast.


JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. It's going to be fascinating. We'll keep the conversation going because you do have a really early sense of

what we're talking about. And as you said, your personal concern is that the recession risk is out there, but we're not yet seeing it in the data,

and I think we will, and you'll be a great lead indicator. So, I'm going to come back and talk to you soon. Happy Thanksgiving. Have a great weekend.

PETERSEN: I'd be happy to. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Black Friday, everybody.

CHATTERLEY: Bye. Ryan Petersen there, founder and co-CEO of Flexport, great to chat to you.

We're back after this.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to First Move.

The U.N. Human Rights Council has voted to set up a fact-finding mission to investigate alleged human rights abuses in Iran. But it comes, of course,

as protests continue across the country. And what you're seeing now is demonstrators in Switzerland celebrating the passage of that U.N.

resolution. Iran has condemned the U.N. vote and saying, it did not reflect the facts inside of Iran.

Meanwhile, protests are continuing there and the crackdown is only making people angrier. CNN spoke to a defiant doctor whose bruises testified to

the violence he's endured himself. He's calling on organizations like the U.N. to take more action.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh reports.


JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Iranians have been risking it all for freedom, to break free of the shackles of a

repressive regime that's brutality and bullets only fueling the anger of those on the streets, making them more defiant than ever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know as long as the Islamic Republic is ruling the country, I couldn't do my duty.

KARADSHEH: This doctor we are not identifying for safety reasons was one of hundreds of medical professionals who gathered in Tehran last month for

a demonstration organized by their council, and it was violently broken up.


Doctors tell CNN at least one person was killed, many injured, including one shot in the eyes and blinded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as I arrived there, the area was full of all kinds of forces. Plain clothes forces was too much and they literally shoot

everyone that was walking on the sidewalk of the street.

I have bruises, multiple bruises in front of my body and back, and all them was above my waist. But I saw injuries with batons and beaten a lot,

electric shock.

KARADSHEH: Just for going out and protesting, you could go to jail or get killed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not just death. It literally could be worse. We wish they kill us on the streets rather than they arrest us.

KARADSHEH: Because of all the horrors in detention facilities, all these risks, the threats to you and your family, that's not stopping you and


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course not. They killed more than 1,500 in three days, in less than a week, about two years ago. We know it could happen and

all of us, we will continue. There is no other way. We came from a long journey and we realize that the Islamic Republic cannot change and don't

want to change. It is our duty for our next generation that we fight it and hopefully we can change it

KARADSHEH: Only Iranians can change it, this protester and others say, but they believe the international community can do more than just watch,

condemn and announce symbolic sanctions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could close Islamic Republic ambassadors, United Nations, UNICEF pay more attention. We need actual action. The most

important question is, are they willing to do that are not, to stand on the right side of history or not?

KARADSHEH: Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Istanbul.


CHATTERLEY: Okay. Coming up after the break, we are talking about the price of loyalty with Lolli. As crypto prices collapse, how do you factor

that into a bitcoin-based reward scheme? The CEO of Lolli will explain. That's next.



CHATTERLEY: And welcome back to First Move.

And shoppers look to save money on Black Friday deals, as we've been discussing, retailers are increasingly reliant on things like reward

programs to keep customers loyal, and one such scheme is Lolli. It works with major U.S. brands ranging from CVS to Shake Shack with rewards paid

out in bitcoin that are held in a crypto wallet, and it can also be swapped into U.S. dollars and then transferred to a U.K. -- U.S. bank account.

The challenge, as you can see, of course, though, the price of digital assets, like bitcoin, have taken a severe tumble. This chart shows how

bitcoin has collapsed since then Thanksgiving last year. Undeterred, however, Lollli says sores are raising their rewards in greater numbers

than before.

Alex Adelman is the CEO of Lolli and he joins us now. Alex, fantastic to have you on the show. Just explain what you're seeing around, obviously,

Thanksgiving, Black Friday and Cyber Monday on Monday, of course, too.

ALEX ADELMAN, CEO, LOLLI: So, we are seeing an incredible increase in what merchants are willing offer to get people to come into their stores and to

shopping online. We are seeing like most of our major merchants are doubling their rates this year. So, we just think that there's like an

increase interest in bringing people back into stores and giving them the best deals possible, so that they will shop there and fighting against

companies like Amazon.

CHATTERLEY: It's interesting. I remember when we first started talking about this company, we were talking about it being, in many ways, an on-

ramp, to get people comfortable with crypto. They buy traditional products in stores and they get rewarded with a piece of bitcoin or some bitcoin,

and they can add that and continue to grow that and hold it in a wallet as an investment or spend it should they choose to.

Do you think some of the reward increases that you are talking about here is simply because the price of assets like bitcoin have fallen so much?

They are having to offer more to incentivize.

ADELMAN: No. I mean, we offer cash back and bitcoin. So, our users, the vast majority choose to earn bitcoin and that is where we have attracted

over 600,000 users as being a bitcoin-first company. I'm a big believer bitcoin is the greatest asset the world has ever seen and it's internet-

native money that is completely decentralized. And so, you know, as we see rising inflation and rising CPI across the board, we think bitcoin is an

incredible asset for people to acquire, especially while it is down right now.

So, the merchants offering higher rewards is completely independent of bitcoin. We do see that our shoppers are typically a higher value shopper.

And so merchants are looking to attract our customers to their sites, to their stores. And so we do have the highest rates in the industry

overwhelmingly and I think people see that when they come to the site and download the mobile app.

CHATTERLEY: There is a lot of key points in there that you mentioned. And I think for a true believer, as you said that you are, in bitcoin

specifically, then one can argue this is a great time to be rewarded in bitcoin or to be investing once again.

But you also made the point, and this is critical too, that people can get ordinary cash back too, Alex. Are you seeing a high proportion of people in

light of some of the turbulence that we have seen decide to take cash rather than bitcoin or is what you are saying actually you are seeing more

rather than less people invested at this moment or at least decide to take bitcoin?

ADELMAN: So, we did just launch the cash back offering, like a direct cash back offering. And part of the reason we did it is we are listening to the

market. We know that people want to save money now more than ever and, you know, we think independent of bitcoin, we have created the best savings

tool out there.

I think when you and I first met, bitcoin was probably around like $5,000, and so now it's currently at $16,000. So, it has gone up quite a bit. So, I

think we were very right about bitcoin even though it has gone up and down along the way, it is still up significantly. So, if you had earned 10

percent back at CVS or wherever you are earning, that would be equivalent of 30 percent back if you had earned bitcoin.

So, with cash back, we do know that a lot of people, when they use a savings tool like Lolli, they do want cash back because they are thinking

about that money that they can put into something else. A lot of people haven't made that jump quite yet into thinking about their savings tool as

an investment tool. So, when we invented this industry, bitcoin awards, four and a half years ago, we were here early. Now, we want to diversify

and give people more ways to earn.

So, I think as the price of bitcoin has gone down and inflation has gone up and we are most likely going into recessionary times, I do think a lot of

people want to save cash now more than ever.


CHATTERLEY: Yes. And I think that's a great point, that you can separate out the economic environment and the desire to save more and earn rewards

from anything that is going on in the crypto space specifically, which I think is also a very important point that you are making here, Alex.

I want to talk to you about what's happening though with the FTX collapse. Because I have seen some of the comments that you've made and you said

specifically about the crypto space. And I use that term carefully because I know that is a huge casual term for many diverse, digital assets, the

underlying technologies, blockchain specifically, let's just make that point first. But you have set the spaces irrevocably changed. What do you

mean by that and what do people need to be aware of particularly since I think it has thrown a dark shadow, I think, over sector that still, for a

lot of people, they don't really understand?

ADELAMN: Yes, it's a great observation and I think that is the sentiment right now of many people both in the United States and across the world.

Bitcoin, you know, is a very different asset than other cryptos, as people call. It I think it's important to make that distinction and to really

understand the fundamentals of bitcoin are not necessarily the fundamentals of every other cryptocurrency.

There is a lot of -- what crypto has created is a free market where people can create their own tokens, create their own monetary policies and a lot

of them have tried to copy the fundamentals of bitcoin and not succeeded.

So, what happened with FTX is they created their own token and had it in decentralized entity. It was centralized finance more than it was

decentralized finance. They used a token that they created to do it. But it was the furthest thing from bitcoin. It looked way more similar to a

central bank printing dollars than it did a set monetary policy of creating, this set monetary policy, this set technology that was the same

technology for 8 billion people, like bitcoin.

Bitcoin is based -- there's only 21 million of them. And every ten minutes, a block is discovered and everybody has the same rules, everyone has the

same code base. It's this beautiful financial system that's available to everyone in the world. And there are these imitators that have tried to co-

opt it and create their own scams that are not bitcoin, or almost the antithesis of bitcoin, and why bitcoin was created to actually stop the

centralized monetary policies from happening. So, I think bitcoin is the answer to the scams, more so than it is to be grouped in with it.

CHATTERLEY: It's is actually really fascinating analogy that you are using in this idea that the initial proponents or something like bitcoin was to

get away from the sort of crazy, sort of monetary policy from central banks in the past and this endless printing of money, and the idea that their

centralized nature of what we saw in FTX was sort of a similar thing. An argument, once again, for decentralized finance, perhaps.

Alex, great to chat to you. Thank you so much for coming on once again. We'll chat again soon. Alex Adelman there, the CEO of Lolli. We are back

after this.



CHATTERLEY: Okay. Welcome back to the show.

As we've been discussing numerous times on the show, Black Friday is one of the year's biggest days for shopping. And while trucks will help transport

most purchases in the not too distant future, drones could be making deliveries to your doorstep, perhaps.

CNN's Anna Stewart has the story.


ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER (voice over): As drone deliveries become more common, one city in the Middle East is working to help this kind of

technology literally take off. This special pilot area to develop and test drones is in the heart of Dubai's silicon oasis.

LEWIS DICKINSON, HEAD OF FLIGHT OPERATIONS, SKYPORTS DRONE SERVICES: The Dubai Future Flight Foundation have offered us a sandbox. The trial the

types of drone technologies that we are using, we are able to create a safe test environment where we can understand what the commercial value is.

STEWART: Skyports is a U.K.-based drone company that was formed in 2018. Its drones currently fly in London and Singapore delivering medical

supplies and transferring light cargo between shores and ships. The company hopes to launch similar services in Dubai, a city with more than 3 million

people who mostly rely on motorbikes for deliveries.

DICKINSON: The idea there is that by removing a vehicle off the road that would normally provide that delivery service, what we are doing is allowing

our customers to achieve some of their low emission sustainability targets.

STEWART: Air, rail and vehicle transport is linked to more than a quarter of carbon dioxide emissions worldwide, according to the International

Energy Agency. But experts believe drones could reduce that figure because they are electrically powered.

JACQUES KHORIATY, MIDDLE EAST CHIEF OF COMMERCIAL OFFICE: So, if we can provide solutions that will be more efficient and that will, of course,

have almost zero emissions, then this is the biggest impact I see.

STEWART: More than 660,000 drone deliveries have been made globally in the last three years, according to McKinsey. That figure is projected to rise

up to 1.5 million.

The widespread adoption depends on many factors, such as regulations, customary acceptance and operational cost. Over 100 companies are piloting

drones for delivery today, according to McKinsey.

KHORIATY: The major challenge would be on the airspace to make sure that the skies will be safe.

STEWART: Skyports operates about 30 drones in the countries where they have the green light to fly. And now that the company has completed its

testing phase in Dubai, the team hopes to soon add another country to the list.

Anna Stewart, CNN, Dubai.


CHATTERLEY: Okay. Let's make a final return to football and the match millions are waiting for, England versus the USA. We kick off in just over

four hours' time. England have yet to beat the Americans in a World Cup match. And today, they take on one of the youngest squads in the


And who better to have discuss the prospect of this than myself and Anna Stewart, to discuss football. Our CNN viewers are in really safe hands


Anna, I have a very critical question to ask you. Do we think that Gareth Southgate will adhere to his usually a three to 3-2-2-3 formation tonight?

What do we think?

STEWART: I think he's going to do a 4-3-3 formation, Julia. I would love to tell you what that means but --

CHATTERLEY: Is that enough players?

STEWART: I don't even know any players. But, Julia --

CHATTERLEY: What is the offside rule?

STEWART: (INAUDIBLE) because this is what I have been educating myself on. Look at this from the Sun. We'll Kane Yanks, from the Daily Star, bun off

Friday. I am hearing officers are pretty quiet, huge amounts of confidence from people I speak to that England will win here against the USA. They're

very much the underdogs, but, Julia, but there is a bit of a curse when it comes to England playing the USA in World Cups. In 2010, they actually

drew. In 1950, if you want to go back that far, they actually lost.

So I've been asking people here about this curse, how worried they are. I course up with an Englishman, a Scotsman and a Canadian put a joke in there

somewhere. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a curse. I mean, in the last World Cup, we still qualified but I am pretty confident that we are going to win that 3

or 4-0.

STEWART: Will you still be here? Can I see your confidence later on today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm going to hide, because if we lose I can't be here.


STEWART: So, they're confident but not that confident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will say England 3-0.



STEWART: 3, 4-0, you think said?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, let's go three.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he is from Scotland.

STEWART: Scottish fan, I am Scottish too.


STEWART: And I have to say, if you have seen -- I'm not sure whether we've got it, but if you have seen any of the videos when England does win, even

at this venue, the beer flying through the air, beer shower that you can expect.

It does make me wonder, but I might actually be supporting Team USA tonight but I have got my umbrella handy just in case. Julia?

CHATTERLEY: You are Scottish, Anna? So, I'm going to put you on the spot now. Are you going to be supporting England tonight with that Umbrella?

Otherwise, I am going to tell all of those people who are throwing be around later when England wins to target you.

STEWART: It's quite telling, isn't it? No. For the purpose of this assignment, and I do know that CNN will have someone in the U.S. in a

similar pub setup, tonight, I will be supporting England, for the purposes of my job.

CHATTERLEY: That might have saved your complete drowning from beer when the result comes in. Anna, have fun.

STEWART: Exactly I was quite worried.

CHATTERLEY: I know. Get that in umbrella ready. Anna Stewart, thank you so much for that.

And that is it for the show. Connect the World with Becky Anderson is up next. We will see you next week.