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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Biden Expected to Announce Additional $1.88 in Security Aid; Former FTX CEO's Extradition from the Bahamas Drags on; Musk says He'll Step Down as CEO after Finding Replacement; Zelenskyy to meet Biden at the White House; Data and AI Driven Hopper Notifies Travelers of Best Rates; Nike, FedEx Higher after Market-Friendly Results. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired December 21, 2022 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move". My last show before Christmas Day and therefore a perfect time to say thank

you for watching and to send holiday wishes your way. Also a moment to forget any stock market dismay or the latest manic Musk tweet display, even

Sam Bankman-Fried hair disarray.

All the World Cup teams that may have led you astray spend time with your family and friends without delay. And so ends my holiday communicate all

that's left is our top story today and that's Volodymyr Zelenskyy in the U.S. of A.

The Ukrainian President expected in Washington for a surprise and historic set of meetings with both President Biden and congressional leaders. He's

likely to thank the United States for its support so far, but also make the case for more. We'll help to D.C. in just a moment's time for now.

Sam Bankman-Fried on the move too, the Former Head of fallen crypto exchange FTX set to be extradited to the U.S. from the Bahamas. He faces a

stunning array of federal criminal and civil charges in a case that continues to reverberate through the crypto world and beyond.

Travel also on millions of people's minds as they rush home for the holidays a travel nightmare brewing in the United States with a powerful

storm sector sweep across the country later this week. And coming up too, the outlook for holiday travel demand and the postal lock down trends with

CEO of data and AI driven travel app Hopper.

And speaking of turbulent trips, U.S. stocks still on track for a rare December drop but futures today are pointing higher as you can see boosted

by solid earnings from both FEDEX and Nike. And Europe is green like a Christmas tree too and Asia steadying a little bit after Tuesday's surprise

Bank of Japan policy move that could eventually lead the way to rate hikes there.

And Tesla bulls to hoping for more than coal in their stocking a bit of a rebound in store after Tuesday's 8 percent plunge. Elon Musk is saying he

will step down as Twitter CEO when you find someone "foolish enough to take the job". That story just ahead too lots to get to, as you can see today,

but we do begin in Washington D.C. and President Zelenskyy set to arrive at the White House for a meeting with President Biden and then later he will

head to Capitol Hill to address members of the U.S. Congress his new video as Zelenskyy in Poland on that journey.

It's his first trip, of course, outside of Ukraine since the war began back in February. President Biden tweeting, I hope you're having a good flight

to Volodymyr. I'm thrilled to have you here. Much to discuss and Jeremy Diamond is waiting there at the White House for him to arrive. It is a huge

moment. Jeremy, great to have you with us! It's also probably one of the best kept secrets ever judging by just the comments from lawmakers

yesterday who seem to have been kept in the dark too. What can we expect today?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. This was a dramatic and a highly secretive trip that the Ukrainian President is

making to Washington. He is flying, we're told aboard a U.S. Military aircraft to make it to the United States after initially taking a train

from Ukraine to Poland and then hopping on a plane from there. As you said this trip has been kept under wraps and it came together quite quickly in

the last 10 days.

We're told U.S. and Ukrainian officials began discussing this trip following a call between President Biden and the Ukrainian President's a

trip that U.S. officials said they had hoped Zelenskyy would eventually make something that they had been thinking about for quite some time.

But a number of security arrangements had to be made close security coordination between U.S. and Ukrainian officials for this to happen today.

President Zelenskyy finally set to arrive in Washington on the 300th day of the Russian invasion of his country.

And he's coming here in a strong show of solidarity with the United States, which has been Ukraine's number one supporter of military and humanitarian

aid, of course. And he will come here today to meet with President Biden, who is set to announce an additional $1.8 billion of U.S. military

assistance including those Patriot surface to air missile systems that the Ukrainians have been hoping for quite some time. President Zelenskyy is

also arriving at an inflection point not only as this war heads into a new phase.

And U.S., Ukraine look for ways forward on the battlefield and also trying to figure out what the end game here is ultimately, but it's also an

inflection point on Capitol Hill. Congress is set to approve an additional nearly $50 billion of additional U.S. Additional Military assistance for

Ukraine is part of this omnibus spending package.


DIAMOND: But it's also as Republicans are set to take control of the House and some key House Republicans have cast doubt on continued U.S. support

for Ukraine. So no question that when President Zelenskyy arrives here both during his meeting at the White House but in particular when he delivers a

prime time address to Congress this evening.

He will be coming here with a message of thanking the U.S. for its support, but also urging that support to continue on as he looks to the future of

the war in Ukraine, of course, the future of the political landscape here in the United States.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, pivotal timing to continue to rally that support. Jeremy, great to have you with us! Thank you, Jeremy Diamond there. And President

Zelenskyy not coming to Washington empty handed. Ukrainian troops on the frontlines gave him a signed flag as a thank you gift for the U.S.

President and Congress. Will Ripley, has all the details.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Within hours of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, tweeting that he was on his way to

the United States to meet with the U.S. President Joe Biden. Air raid siren sounded across Ukraine yet again, that's pretty much like every day here in

this war torn country. But what makes today different is that it's the first time Zelenskyy has not been physically present in the country since

the start of the full scale invasion on February 24.

He faces quite a challenge when he goes to Washington for that triumphant announcement with President Biden of billions of dollars in additional

defense spending, including those highly coveted by the Ukrainians. Patriot Missile Defense Systems that they hope will be a game changer in this

conflict, which has been dragging on around 10 months now. Zelenskyy has to convince U.S. lawmakers and also NATO that they need to support Ukraine

through the long haul.

Even though there is growing pressure, including from the French President Emmanuel Macron, for peace talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Now

the Ukrainians here, well, the conversation on the ground and Ukraine is supportive of Zelenskyy being in the United States. They are also

determined to finish this war that Russia started and that means from the Ukrainian perspective, reclaiming all territory taken by Russia, pre 2014,

including Crimea, which was illegally annexed by Russia.

That's what started this whole war. From the Ukrainian perspective, they've been fighting Russia for almost nine years now. Now, they're the West might

feel differently, they might feel that Ukraine should try to make some concessions that Zelenskyy domestically is under a tremendous amount of

pressure not to make.

But the big challenge for him is as he continues to accept billions of dollars in weapons from foreign countries, and yet the lines have been

basically the same relatively the same. Ukraine's not retaking a tremendous amount of territory; they're not losing ground to the Russians, either. He

has to convince them that the challenge is urgent enough.

And the threat is big enough for the world that they need to keep putting money and resources into Ukraine, especially with word of a potential

Russian troop buildup on the Belarusian border to the north of Ukraine, which could open up yet another front in this conflict, which is already

seeing intense fighting to the east, to the south. And of course, the regular bombardment and bombing of the civilian infrastructure here by

Russia. Will Ripley, CNN in Southern Ukraine.

CHATTERLEY: Let's hone in on that angle a little bit. The Kremlin of course, responding to President Zelenskyy's trip to Washington, saying that

by providing more weapons to Kyiv Western countries is aggravating the conflict. Clare Sebastian has more on the reaction now from Moscow. Clare

and actually we've heard from President Putin himself not missing an opportunity to paint this as NATO aggression, rather than anything else.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia, this is a line that we've been hearing from Moscow now for some months that they believe they are at

war, not just with Ukraine, but with the West and all of NATO. Obviously, it's in their interest to make that point because it, you know, makes their

battlefield defeats look a little less humiliating. But we did just hear from President Putin, as you say, just wrapped up a big meeting with an

expanded board of his Defense Ministry, a roomful of men in military uniform.

And the speech really was doubling down on that line that they are at war with NATO. He said that the military potential and opportunities of

virtually all the main countries of NATO are being used against Russia. He said that Russia is looking at the equipment being deployed by NATO and

Ukraine and building its military accordingly and the speech was also really an exercise in sort of touting the expansion of the Russian Military

piling unlimited.

He said resources into it. He talked about stepping up the readiness of the nuclear arsenal and new hypersonic missiles, improving the systems even for

mobilization. Although he did say that he believes that the Russian army now has enough people with those 300,000 men already mobilized. So he is

clearly even as we see President Zelenskyy in the United States potentially willing to discuss what an end game might look like? What a path to peace

might look like? It's clear that Russia is in the mood for the opposite.

CHATTERLEY: Clare Sebastian, thank you so much for that update there. Now in the face of an unprecedented surge in COVID cases, China is narrowing

its definition of COVID related deaths. The count will now only include patients who died of respiratory failure directly caused by the virus.


CHATTERLEY: The decision raising clear concern those officials are trying to mask the scale of the outbreak and the loss of life. Selina Wang reports

from Beijing.


SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): China has only reported a few COVID deaths since abandoning its zero COVID policy. But what we see on the

ground tells a different story.

WANG (on camera): There is a long line of cars that sticks across this entire area of cars waiting to get into that cremation area. I'm in the

parking lot right now and it's completely full of cars. I'm speaking here because there are many, many security guards patrolling this entire area.

And I spoke to a man earlier who said that his close friend passed away from a fever that the hospital didn't say why? He said he's been waiting

here for hours, and he still has no idea if his friend's body can even get cremated today?

WANG (voice over): And it's not just in Beijing, social media shows crematoriums and funeral homes around the country overwhelmed. This funeral

home in Jinan and the man is saying it's going insane. Here it is patched with cars and vans carrying bodies stretch all the way into the distance in

front of this crematorium in Tianshunxiang (ph) and families wait and stand in their mourning clothes at this Wuhan funeral home with no idea how long

they have to wait before their beloved ones can be cremated.

A new study by Hong Kong researchers estimates nearly 1 million people in China could die from COVID, if the country doesn't take necessary public

health measures like increased vaccinations. Long lines like these are forming across the country outside of hospitals in Hangzhou. People wait

for hours outside in the cold rain. Crowds form outside of hospitals in Wuhan, round zero of the original outbreak.

WANG (on camera): This is a COVID designated hospital in Beijing. There's been a steady stream of elderly patients in wheelchairs being led into this

hospital. I spoke to a man who has been waiting outside for his elderly family member who he said is very sick with a high fever from COVID, but he

said this hospital is running out of bed space. Are you busy? I asked the COVID worker outside this hospital.

Yes, extremely busy. He tells me we even work into the evenings. Did a lot of people die here? I asked. Yes, every day he says. Is it all because of

COVID? Yes, he says people with underlying conditions. The country's COVID strategy has suddenly swung from one extreme to another.

This is what China's Metropolis torching looked like a month ago during a mass COVID locked down, a ghost city. But now not only has Tongzhou (ph)

lifted, it's locked down. A government announced on primetime television that people who has COVID. As long as they were only mildly sick or

asymptomatic, well they can return to work.

But people are still scared to go out. Restaurants and shopping malls in the city barely have any customers. Subways across major cities are eerily

empty. But none of this is stopping tiny state media from hailing the country's COVID strategy as victory after victory. As the Chinese people

feel they are suddenly left to fend for themselves. Selina Wang, CNN Beijing.


CHATTERLEY: OK, straight ahead didn't know the courtroom rendezvous for Sam Bankman-Fried in the Bahamas, the latest on his extradition proceedings

after the break. Stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", all the Third time's a charm for Sam Bankman-Fried's extradition. The Former CEO of FTX is in court again

today. After confusion and disagreement between prosecutors and Bankman- Fried's Bahamian attorney delayed the process.

SPF's lawyer has said its likely Bankman-Fried will be extradited to the United States as soon as the final court hearing takes place. CNN's Patrick

Oppmann joins us live from the Bahamas. You might be spending Christmas there at this rate. Patrick, we've learned to expect the unexpected. What

do we know about the situation today?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it has felt like a Groundhog Day situation where we every day we expect something to happen. That does not

but we are told that it looks very positive that today will be the day that SPF leaves the Bahamas leaves on a private flights really different kinds

of private flight that as a Former Billionaire he is used to but he will be a we are told under the care of U.S. federal agents who will take him to

United States. Before that happens, though, there has been some paperwork.

And so we understand from Reuters that he has now signed the agreement that would extradite him that has to come before a judge at the courthouse

behind me. In a few hours, we are told and his lawyers have already said here and in the U.S. that he will accept this deal that will allow him to

drop his fight to extradition and allow the United States government to remove him to the U.S. Some reports as well from the United States.

That he's in negotiations with prosecutors in the U.S. to come up with some kind of deal that will allow him to come out of be out on bail. So

essentially, that he would be under, we imagine very strict circumstances not have to remain in prison like he is currently in the Bahamas at a

notorious prison here in Nassau so things are moving slowly, but in the direction that would appear to allow Sam Bankman-Fried to leave the Bahamas

perhaps as early as tonight, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: We shall see Patrick Oppmann, thank you so much for that. And then maybe we'll see you tomorrow.

OPPMANN: No problem.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you.


CHATTERLEY: OK, the Biden Administration is pressing pause on rules regarding which electric vehicles will qualify for U.S. tax credits. After

protests from both Europe and Asia, the government is proposing a $7,500 tax credit per vehicle, but only for models that are assembled in North

America and meet demand and conditions on the origins of key components. Some of America's trading partners are calling the rules discriminatory.

They are part of President Biden's inflation Reduction Act meant to speed up the transition to cleaner vehicles and boost U.S. production. Christine

Romans joins us now. Christine, it's always good to have you on these stories. When I am deeply confused there is a lot going on here and I know

you and I have discussed this in the past.

There's the concern over the requirement for U.S. produced components in order to be able to qualify for this $7,500. There's also and we've

discussed this on the show already with other competitors too have the likes of Rivian. What qualifies for the future for commercial electric

vehicles and whether that gives a huge demand boost to the United States and players here relative to those in in Europe and beyond? What's going


CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's really fascinating, and the bottom line is that in a couple of weeks, you could

see even a wider swath of EV lines in the U.S. eligible for a $7,500 tax credit, right because they've pushed back some of this rulemaking. So it

might mean that there's this window here, where more of these vehicles are actually eligible for this tax credit.


ROMANS: You know, recently I sat down with the Rivian CEO. We talked about how the inflation Reduction Act a big part of it has nothing to do with

inflation. It has to do with a big investment and a total strategy shift for how the U.S. incentivizes this transition to a greener future. Listen

to what he said.


RJ SCARINGE, CEO, RIVIAN AUTOMOTIVE: That policy is shifting a lot of people's mindsets in the right way. It's driving us to say how do we more

rapidly build localized supply chain for battery? Just as every car company that operates, the United States is thinking the same things?

So I think that's outstanding. I think the reality as well is, this is for a long time been something that's politicized electrification, or a path to

carbon neutrality has been politicized. We're beginning to see that fade, which is really encouraging. So it's not a right issue or a left issue.

ROMANS: There's been some pushback that, you know, not all EVs are going to get these great incentives at the outset and the unfortunate, but what do

you say to that? I mean, that's, where the election was written.

SCARINGE: It's a fact that it's going to prioritize domestic supply chains, for sure. But I think everybody who's serious about, you know, being in the

U.S. market is going to figure out there, how to localize your supply chain, certainly we are.


ROMANS: And localizing the supply chain specifically for batteries, right? That has been for some of these automakers, the harder path here, but

that's what this law is designed to do. It's to incentivize assembly in the United States and more of the battery production to be localized and that's

what these automakers are trying to do.

Now you've got the Treasury Department moving back a deadline on some of these rules. So we're all trying to understand what that means for

consumers in the U.S. who are buying either these delivery vehicles where you have incentives of up to $40,000, on delivery vehicle, a large delivery

vehicle, or for cars $7,500 in the U.S.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and this was what was fascinating to me, that what could be up to $40,000 for these delivery vehicles. And for a company like Rivian

that had announced perhaps that they were going to start manufacturing and doing deals.

I think it was Mercedes in Europe, and suddenly we're like, and perhaps it ties to the economic environment too, but from my perspective, why would

you bother manufacturing and producing delivery vehicles in Europe? If you're going to see those that want to buy them in the United States get

such a huge tax credit, you focus on America and producing for the American market.

ROMANS: And I was just there in that normal plant where those Rivian trucks or a big delivery trucks are rolling out for Amazon. I mean, there are just

acres and acres and acres of these tribes ready to roll and started January 1, a big tax incentive available for U.S. assembled. Vehicles here and with

and again, the law is written that they have to be assembled in North America and meet conditions and the origin of key components.

They've pushed off the origin of key components final rulemaking, which means this could mean a wider window for more tax credits. We'll have to

see how it all plays out, but it did. It is a new strategy and a new direction, the inflation reduction act very big part of that was this

transition to a greener future for cars in the U.S.

CHATTERLEY: Politically named for purposes we need to go into, quite frankly, but a huge climate component of this. And I think, in many ways,

this is the United States throwing the gauntlet down to other regions, in particular, the EU who's also been very focused on this.

But at appointments, were saying when the United States is subsidizing to such a huge degree, that any businesses looking around the world and

working out where their supply chains are. Or beyond, you focus on where the biggest demand kicker is? And where you get the biggest incentives?

It's good business sense and that's a problem for the likes of Europe.

ROMANS: Yes, and is there any industry there's more globalized, do you think than the car industry?


ROMANS: I mean, just think about that the auto industry, which makes when you're talking about domestic production and local sourcing in an industry

that is so globalized. Still, again, still trying to understand the ripple effects for this globalized supply chain and these European companies that

are producing and selling in the U.S. and vice versa? It's, going to be fascinating.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it is, and also, they've had the shocker of the last few years where supply chain chinks and beyond have been such a huge problem

for them that now is the time. Christine Romans, always a pleasure to talk to you.

ROMANS: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. A calling all gluttons for punishment Elon Musk tweeting that he's actively searching for a new Twitter CEO a position that

he's repeatedly said was virtually un-fillable. The Star Search is of great concern to Tesla shareholders of course alarmed by the stock stunning fall

from grace down 8 percent Tuesday and 60 percent year to date. Thanks in part to Twitter related risk.

Can Musk truly find a replacement with apologies to new kids on the Block here, the Right Stuff? Paul La Monica joins us now who always has the right



CHATTERLEY: The danger is the next CEO gets the stuffing knocked out of them. Who might be poor?

PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNN REPORTER: I can't believe you just went New Kids on the Block my teenage self from the late 80's is cringing right now as well

as my nearly 50-year old self. But anyway, Elon Musk, he wants to stop running Twitter but he seems to not be can you not be certain that he can

find someone that can do the job as he tweeted yesterday, I will resign as CEO as soon as I find someone foolish enough to take the job! After that, I

will just run the software and servers teams.

One not really a great job posting, Hey, come take this thankless stupid job where you'll have to report to me the most preeminent micromanager on

the planet. And if he's running the software and servers teams, what's left for the CEO to do the advertising business that Musk is trying to de-

emphasize as they go more with subscriptions and Twitter blue.

I don't understand what Musk is trying to do at Twitter. Tesla Investors still seem concerned the stock is up a little bit in premarket trading

Julia, but not that much considering the 8 percent decline you mentioned yesterday and the gigantic 60 percent drop this year. I think a lot of

people would love to see more confidence from Musk, that he's going to just resume running Tesla and SpaceX and everything else he's doing, and maybe

just stop with this Twitter falling.

CHATTERLEY: Yes and that he can find someone competent to turn this around, because that is a point that he's emphasized on a number of occasions. It's

going to take someone with great confidence, step forward, Snoop Dogg because he did put a Twitter poll out himself, suggesting that he was ready

to take the helm. And unlike Elon Musk, it was a big fat yes. In response, and it wasn't an insignificant number of people.

MONICA: Yes, over 3 million, I believe, voted in the Snoop poll and an overwhelming majority 81 percent. You know, I would love to see the name

Calvin Broadus Jr., on, you know, a C suite office and what Snoop would do at Twitter? Hey, I mean, it can't be any stranger than what Musk is doing.

Obviously, Snoop Dogg is joking. He has a thriving music career that I think he wants to focus on. But there are other people that, you know, Wall

Street's been speculating about in Silicon Valley could Sheryl Sandberg now that she's no longer a Meta, be someone that could come in and inspire

confidence? You've got David Sacks, a member of the so called Pay Pal mafia with Elon Musk. He might be someone that, you know, could step in as well.

So I think there are definitely intriguing candidates, but again, it's who would want the job that Elon Musk seems to be denigrating at every possible

turn. And then again, you have to report to Musk, which look at Tesla and the revolving door of executives that have left their kind to suggest that

Elon may not be the easiest boss to work for, especially if he wants you sleeping at the office and putting in 25, eight days, which, you know,

obviously don't exist.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, perhaps both rewarding at times, and also exhausting. In all seriousness, and we do have some fun with this story and I know it's

not fun for some of the shareholders involved. I'll make that clear. But a front of the show, Roger McNamee, and of course of Facebook fame was a

mentor to Mark Zuckerberg wrote an op-ed or an opinion piece in Time Magazine.

It sorts of resonated with me, and he wrote that we're as media making exactly the same mistakes that we made with Donald Trump. As with Elon

Musk, now, in that we're providing a platform, we're raising attention; we're talking about it constantly.

We're sort of playing the game and he has a point actually gain that Elon Musk himself was making the engaging now is that engagement on Twitter is

at records that the level of volume of tweets back and forth and flying around are at record highs. Paul, do you think Roger has a point?

MONICA: I think Roger does have a point. What's interesting, though, is you do have to wonder how much this does really benefit Musk and Twitter other

than maybe Elon's inflated ego, because let's be honest. He keeps talking about Twitter being a terrible company and you know, financially and that

there's bankruptcy risk, and no one would want the CEO jobs.

So I'm not so sure that all of our focus in the media on Twitter is helping Twitter financially. But I think Roger McNamee makes a great point that,

yes, in the same manner that maybe the media made mistakes by going all in on the Former President as soon as he descended on that escalator to run

for President and then actually win the election in 2016. It's possible that we're paying too much attention to Elon Musk.


MONICA: That being said, in order to fence, Elon Musk runs several well- known companies and he is the second richest person on the planet. You can't exactly ignore him, especially for financial media.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And he's proved he's got great brilliance in certain spheres as an innovator and a visionary. So, fingers crossed, he turns this

round for all of those that do use this platform and find value in it. Paul, great to talk to you, you could have just said yes and said no more

and we'd have not continued to provide the platform. Thank you. Speak to you soon, thank you, happy holidays.

Coming up on "First Move" we're awaiting President Zelenskyy's arrival in Washington D.C. much more on that historic visit up next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". And a reminder today of our top story Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, set to meet with President

Joe Biden at the White House. It's his first trip outside Ukraine since Russia invaded the country back in February.

He will hold a joint press conference with the U.S. president and later deliver an address to a joint session of Congress. During his visit,

President Biden is expected to announce an additional $1.8 billion in security assistance that includes the coveted patriot missile system.

CNN Military Analyst General Wesley Clark joins us now. He's also a former NATO supreme allied commander, General Clark, always great to have you on

the show. I do want to talk about the significance of the patriot missile system. But just to begin, how important is this visit for rallying unity

of supporting congress, rallying spirits back home in Ukraine, and also perhaps also sending a message to Russia about the broader unity among


GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think it's a very important visit it's very timely visit, of course, is perfectly timed with the new

assistance to Ukraine. But President Zelenskyy and of course Mr. Putin also recognize that U.S. support is really the key to keeping Ukraine in the

war. It's the key to keeping NATO together. And it's the key to eventually forcing Mr. Putin to pull back out of Ukraine and perhaps the end of Mr.

Putin's leadership in Russia.


GEN. CLARK: So the United States, we would say, is like the center of gravity of this campaign. So the fact that the Biden Administration has

invited him here, it's organized and speaking to joint session of congress had some wonderful vote of support by the United States behind President


President Zelenskyy is going to express great appreciation. But in private, I hope he's going to tell the president, his candid views were the worst. I

think there's a word of really critical period in this conflict. If the United States and the allies could pour in the support now, over the next

60 days, Ukraine has a real chance of forcing the Russians out and putting so much pressure on that Russia has to agree to pull out and really

commence peace talks.

If we don't do that and this drags on, and Russia rebuilds its military, we're looking at another significant fighting breaking out in April, May,

June or an end of the summer that may not be to Ukraine's advantage. So this is a window of opportunity for us, we need to put those resources in.

And that means we need to be taking greater risks of offending Mr. Putin.

CHATTERLEY: As you point out, therefore, an incredibly important 60 days. Just put the patriot missile systems into perspective borders and how they

would play into what we've seen in recent weeks with the attacks in particular on energy and utility infrastructure. How pivotal would they be

in helping Ukraine defend itself? And I guess how quickly can the soldiers that be taught to use them and utilize them?

GEN. CLARK: Well, the patriots are good system and it can intercept ballistic missiles, it's expensive. We don't know exactly how many systems

they're getting, the news releases are saying a battery, well, this is would be put in place probably around Kyiv.

And it would protect in the case of Russia getting the Iranian ballistic missiles in. Pretty expensive to shoot down $200,000 drones with a limited

supply of million dollar plus patriot missiles, that might not be effective. If we put in several batteries, a battalion, maybe two

battalions, if we could do that, then we get much broader coverage across Ukraine. But this is not a country wide system.

This is essentially a long range point defense system with a relatively small round footprint of protected area, say 50, and 70 miles in diameter.

So yes, it can help protect Kyiv, but not the rest of the country.

CHATTERLEY: You wrote, very important, in my humble opinion, opinion piece for The New York Times where you were addressing what you see as a sort of

fundamental misconception in the idea and in certain quarters in the U.S. congress, perhaps. But beyond that, the United States is in some way, doing

Ukraine a favor by providing economic support by providing weaponry.

And you said, in your view, they're fighting a war in person for the entire international community. And at the risk if they fail, that nuclear

proliferation or the message will be sent to other countries that giving up nuclear weapons is a very dangerous thing.

You find yourself in a situation that Ukraine now is having given up their weapons in the 1990s. Do you think U.S. Congress; do you think this

government understands that to circle back to your point about the 60 days and the vital importance of the provision of support in this period?

GEN. CLARK: Well, I think the president and the administration certainly understand it, but they're also trying to balance off the risks of

potential escalation. Mr. Putin has been very effective at playing the nuclear guard in this. So and the administration has been very skillful at

being able to help Ukraine and just come in underneath the nuclear threat.

But this is getting to be a very tense, important time. Your question is really important. I mean, we've got to go back to the origins of this, to

the statements Mr. Putin made a year ago about what his objectives were, he wants Ukraine, he wants the Baltic States. He wants NATO roll back. He

wants to diminish the United States role in Europe, this is not just about Ukraine, this is about the future of the international system.

And I think Americans have to realize that Ukraine is actually fighting for our values, not just for their own independence, their survival as a

nation. But the outcome of this will send a signal to the rest of the world just as you say; do you have to have nuclear weapons?


GEN. CLARK: If you have them, can you invade people with impunity? It could spark a wave of nuclear proliferation that we couldn't control. It could

also spark some devastating collapses of governments in Europe, if we don't continue to support and even more strongly Ukraine.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. General Clark, I'll tweet out your New York Times opinion piece because I really valued it. And it's not just the message for

Americans to understand it's, I think it's for all of us at difficult times, sir, happy holidays, thank you so much for joining us.

GEN. CLARK: You too.

CHATTERLEY: General Wesley Clark, thank you. We're back after this, stay with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". Millions are traveling over the hills and through the woods to loved ones this holiday season and now more

than ever looking for the lowest fares possible to get them there. Travel app Hopper is hoping to return travelers tend to them before they head out.

It uses data and AI to notify users of the optimal time to book flights, hotels and car rentals. Hopper has been downloaded 80 million times and was

the most downloaded travel app in North America last year. It says it has an 11 percent share of U.S. third party air travel and with major

Investors, including Goldman Sachs and Citi.

It's now looking to expand further around the world. And joining us now is Fred Lalonde. He's Co-Founder and CEO of Hopper, Fred, fantastic to have

you on the show. Just start by explaining how the technology works and why you're able to predict the best time to book.

FRED LALONDE, CO-FOUNDER & CEO, HOPPER: Absolutely, thanks for having me. The Hopper app has been predicting airfare since 2014. And the way we do it

is we actually track all of the shopping. So what everybody is asking every other website on the planet, every physical travel agency and we stream all

of this data to our data centers. We have this massive historic archive that goes back almost a decade. It has trillions and trillions of prices.

And with that we use artificial intelligence and different algorithms to figure out how the pricing is going to move in the future. For the user,

it's pretty easy. You just go in, you set your destination your origin, which dates you're thinking of traveling and you can be flexible.

And we tell you if you should wait or buy we all also predict the best time to buy in the future, so we'll say things like you should wait six weeks

for this trip to London that you're planning and look at the best prices then.


LALONDE: And if the price happens to drop, you get an alert and it tells you, this is a good time to buy. It's cheaper than anything we've seen in

the past than anything we've seen in the future. Price tracking has been around for a while. But as you mentioned, we have about 80 million people

that have used us and people save an average of $60, which kind of matters on a $400 average ticket.

CHATTERLEY: Wow. And how much notice just on average does it give you if the price drops and then it sends the alert and says actually, perhaps

now's the time to buy. Is there a pattern over how close to the point of travel, you tend to be?

LALONDE: Of course, that all depends on the travel route in the season.


LALONDE: So if we take, for example, the holiday travel, we're expecting a record of 54 million people in the U.S. are going to travel for the

holidays, that's 20 percent more than last year and it's actually 4 percent higher than 2019. So we're setting a record this year. In a period like

that, the only thing to do to save money was to book super early.

So if you're planning to go for holiday travel and you haven't booked, it's going to cost you. If you look outwards, let's say post-holiday travel, a

ski trip where you're going to hit the islands, usually a 90 day window, you'll get the alerts, anything within two weeks of travel generally is

more expensive.

So you're going to end up booking your ticket, maybe a week or two sooner than everybody else. And that's where you get the most savings. What

happens also --time, there are less people on the planes, and then the airlines will drop the prices for a day. And that's where it really pays

off to be using an app like Hopper.

CHATTERLEY: Interesting, yes and you instantly get the alert when they do those and those sort of quick sales. And 95 percent accuracy, I think was

one of the stats that leapt out at me. Now the app is free, you obviously make money, I'm assuming when people actually book via the app, but you

also offer some FinTech products within the app, too.

LALONDE: That's correct. So we're a boring gigantic travel agency in terms of our business model. But will we offer on top of the prediction, using a

lot of the same data we use to forecast prices are things like price freeze. So for a few dollars will actually hold the price if it's a good

one that you want to have frozen for a few days, so you can make up your mind, maybe you need to talk to your spouse.

And right now we have a lot of products that help you make non-refundable things refundable. So if your travel plans change and you can get your

money back. And also a very popular product right now is the disruption protection. So if your flight is late for an hour, you can either get all

your money back and get rebooked by the airline for free or Hopper the app will we book you on any other airlines, so you don't have to spend an

entire day waiting for the airline you booked on to get a flight in.

If we're considering holiday travel, that product is especially popular. And your listeners may have heard this. But there's actually a big storm

that's going to hit the U.S. which is terrible time. And so we expect it's going to be crowded, but also very disruptive.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and I'm going to read to the FinTech offerings that you provide, as you've just mentioned, a number of them are 70 percent of the

air booking revenue that you're creating at the moment just to give people a sense of scale. And you don't do advertising, which I think would also

delight some people, quite frankly, you don't want to be spammed while they're trying to book these things as well, because it's stressful enough.

How unique, by the way, is this technology? Because if I look at some of the other big travel apps that we're talking about, for example, Expedia is

one that instantly comes to mind. But I don't see their kind of offering like this, too. So I just wonder whether that sort of almost makes you an

acquisition target if they could incorporate your kind of technology. Are you perhaps open to that?

LALONDE: I mean, we're basically building the largest company in the world and we cater to a new generation. A lot of our users are under 25. And they

have very different expectations. Expedia is the website that I used when I was young, which is already quite a while ago.

And so the new generation of consumers, the Millennials and the Gen Z, you know, they're consuming contacts with TikTok to plan their travel, they're

going directly to the app, most of their commerce is on their phone. So we really cater to this new generation. The FinTech offerings, the price

predictions, they're all based on this data advantage that we've built over the decades.

And we're extremely focused on two things. One is making it easier to book finding the right time getting more flexibility, but also getting a lower

fare. And one of the things that we've done that's been a runaway success this year is all the social commerce. So taking inspiration from the

eastern apps in Asia, we let people you know, come in play games, we run sales, where you can share the app and earn money.

And this year, instead of doing advertising, we've given away over $50 million to our customers through sharing the app or playing these games, so

to help them lower the cost of their travel. And that's been just a huge, huge success in our demographic. The app is being shared through gaming

systems over a million times a month right now.


CHATTERLEY: Wow. So you didn't actually answer my question about whether you're in the market to be bought. But I think you've actually answered the

question as if to say, you're here for a modern generation and you may have 11 percent market share of right now. But you're, you're perhaps going to

grow big enough to buy them one day perhaps. Provide that customers something.

LALONDE: And definitely --?

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I know where you're headed. Talk to me about growth, talk to me international growth, because while the app is available, I can see

around the world, the majority of those downloads are coming from the United States growth plans do you need to raise more money to do it, talk

me through that.

LALONDE: So we've grown about 25 fold 25 times since our pre-pandemic scale. So we were really a story of innovating through the pandemic. But I

think another of the really exciting changes we've had this year is we've gone from about 2 percent of our business originating outside of North


And that's how we really define international growth is having international customers, not Americans fine abroad. And so this month, 20

percent of our business is from outside of North America. We are starting to have a huge presence in Latin America, which has always been a good

market for us, but also Europe and Asia have been growing.

And the growth rate outside of the U.S. is actually more than twice what we're seeing in the U.S. So I wouldn't be surprised this time next year if

50 percent of our business isn't coming out of those markets. They're very mobile friendly. Mobile is used even more frequently in those markets. But

social commerce is just such a natural fit for some of these markets like Asia and Latin America that we are very bullish on the outcome there.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And the re-opening across significant parts of Asia like China, of course to is going to be fascinating to see as well. Fred,

fantastic to chat to you, thank you so much. And we will reconvene on this conversation and see how that growth is going.

And I know you also plant two trees for every booking that's made on the website as well and I did want to talk to you about that. But we've run out

of time, we shall reconvene. Fred happy holidays, thank you so much.

LALONDE: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Fred Lalonde there, the Co-Founder and CEO of Hopper, great to chat to you. Stay with "First Move", we're back after this.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". U.S. stocks are up and running on this first day of winter. Just remember the days get brighter and longer

from here; hopefully the market picture will improve too and as if on cue. U.S. stocks are jumping higher in early trade the S&P 500 on track for a

second straight day of gains.

The DOW Industrial is getting a nice boost to after strong results from a member firm Nike, its making progress in cutting inventories. We also saw

strong gains for FedEx too; look at that a bit higher as well. The packaging delivery firm is missing on revenues amid sluggish demand. But it

is also promising new cost cuts too.


CHATTERLEY: And finally, he was last seen flying high over Buenos Aires as crowd saluted him and his World Cup winning champions. But it seems Lionel

Messi not content with simply being one of the greatest sportsmen to ever live. He's also among the greatest influences too.

This post on Instagram has now become the platforms most liked ever. It had almost 70 million likes so far, beating a record set by the famous

Instagram egg. I never saw that. But that apparently got 57.1 million likes, excellent. And Argentinean fans are celebrating. The party raged in

Rabat on Tuesday too.

The Atlas Lions were given a hero's welcome after finishing fourth at the World Cup of Morocco with a first African team and the first from an Arab

country to reach the semi-finals after topping their group. They amazed World Cup watchers by taking down giant Spain and Portugal in the knockout

rounds to and huge celebrations there and they deserve it too. And that's it for the show. "Connect the World" is up next. I'll see you next week.