Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

IMF Expects the Global Economy to Bottom Out in 2023; John Kerry's Climate Warning; Kerry: The Cost of not Meeting Targets is Far Greater Than Any Investment Now; NATO Chief: Ukraine Needs more Advanced, Heavy Weapons; Spanish PM: It's Important France and Germany take the lead on Ukraine; Olaf Scholz: The Future Belongs Solely to Renewables. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired January 18, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move, as always, I'm Julia Chatterley coming to you live this week from the World

Economic Forum here in Davos, Switzerland, where once again, Ukraine is front and center this time.

It follows a shocking helicopter accident in the town of Brovary near Kyiv. Earlier today, 17 people including the Ukrainian Interior Minister and at

least three children are known to have lost their lives after the helicopter came down in bad weather, tragically crashing near a nursery.

The death of the Ukrainian Minister is the greatest blow to the country's leadership so far during the illegal war with Russia. Ukrainian President

Zelenskyy is set to address delegates here in Davos in just a few hours, time. He's likely to discuss today's terrible developments and deliver a

firm message once again, that fresh Military aid to his country is needed immediately there truly is no time to waste.

Report saying Russia is massing troops for a new offensive soon. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz under intense pressure too from allies to permit the

delivery of state of the art battle tanks to Ukraine speaks on the main stage of the WEF, later this hour ahead of crucial discussions of course to

on this issue on Friday. Lithuania's Foreign Minister saying here in Davos to today that he's confident those tanks, which could prove crucial to

current Ukraine's defense will be delivered.

We'll discuss Ukraine's plight, as well as the global economic and energy crisis resulting from the invasion in detail over the coming hour too with

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, Former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, the current U.S. Presidential envoy on climate issues, and IMF

Managing Director Kristalina Georgieva, as well as Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin. Her message there is no other alternative to Ukraine winning

the war, and that it will win.

This yes, Davos I think playing a crucial role in further strengthening the global economy solidarity with Ukraine during this dark hour. And that's

why I want to begin with the latest from the accident site embroidery now. CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is in Brovary and

earlier spoke to my colleague Don Lemon.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You can probably see behind me the smoldering wreckage of that kindergarten where the helicopter

hit this morning. Tragically killing 16 people all nine people on board the helicopter was killed, including the Interior Minister Denys Monastyrskyi,

also the Deputy Interior Minister, the Secretary of state of the Interior Ministry, as well as six others.

And then on the ground, tragically, at least three children and their parents who were just taking them to school Don. I mean, as if this country

has not been through enough tragedy and horror in this war. Now you have this on top of it. Authorities are saying they don't know exactly how this

happened or why this happened. But we've been talking to a lot of people in the area and the visibility was terrible this morning.

One man told us he was outside smoking a cigarette and he could hear the crash, but he couldn't see anything because of the fog. Another woman told

us that after she heard the crash, she ran down to the kindergarten and saw children being taken out of the building, some of them still literally on

fire. So this is an absolutely horrifying attack.

Clearly having a big impact on so many people around here there's been a constant stream of people laying flowers taking a minute to come and to pay

their respects. And you can see those rescue workers still going through the rubble trying to ascertain how this happened.

They've been picking out large chunks of debris parts of the helicopter that I think from what we understand sort of clipped that initial part of

the kindergarten there and then crashed just over on the other side, where we were earlier this morning, we saw at least four bodies covered in those

gold foil blankets. But as we said just a tragic day, 16 people died among them at least three children.

CHATTERLEY: With a heavy heart I have to update you that since Clarissa for that report. The death toll for the number of children killed has now risen

to four and you can continue to follow the very latest details on that on CNN

And meantime, the global economy suffered a huge shock to the system of course to last February when Russia launched its illegal war in Ukraine and

the after effects including things like energy shortages, high inflation and food insecurity are still being felt today.


CHATTERLEY: The World Economic Forum calls it an interconnected or poly crisis in need of a greater and coordinated global response. Now amid all

the uncertainty the International Monetary Fund has been forced to repeatedly cut its global growth forecasts.

And while no resolution to the Ukraine conflict is in sight, the funders believe that global economy should bottom out this year, paving the way for

recovery, especially as China reopens and aggressively begins courting outside investment.

A big fear, of course to the IMF remains what it calls trade fragmentation and fragmentation risk. A development that has the potential to severely

weaken global growth, much to discuss, as always, and I'm pleased to say, IMF Managing Director Kristalina Georgieva joins us now. Managing Director,

it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. As I mentioned, we do have much to discuss, but I do want to begin in Ukraine and the tragedy upon

tragedy that took place today.

KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: I mourn for those who lost their lives today, for all the victims of this

senseless, brutal war. I want to express my sympathy to the Government of Ukraine, they lost a valuable member. I'm confident though they will endure

they're doing an incredibly good job in the most difficult circumstances.

CHATTERLEY: You know, I'm reminded, and I can see that, once again, you're choked talking about this of your family, because the last time you and I

were together, we were talking about your family who's also caught in the midst of this, how are they doing?

GEORGIEVA: My brother and his wife are now in Bulgaria. My brother's mother in law is in Kerkhoff. I talked to her recently. It is cold, it is dark, it

is scary. And her appeal to all in the world is stamped by us and so we must.

CHATTERLEY: How did they feel when the First Lady appeared here at the World Economic Forum and what she said?

GEORGIEVA: It was very touching, because she talked about people who are going through the most difficult challenges about children that are lost to

Ukraine, for no good reason. And about the power of solidarity within Ukraine, and within international community so it is very uplifting, to

listen to her it reminds us of our humanity.

CHATTERLEY: We're going to move on and talk about hopefully glimmers of light on the economic front too. I know this concern, still clearly about

the global economy. But I think when we all arrived here at the World Economic Forum; we were concerned about the forecast about what you're

going to say about recession risk, glimmers of light, perhaps?

GEORGIEVA: This year is going to be difficult, growth will slow further. But they are signs of resilience and we see labor markets in United States,

in Europe, holding consumers spending and a chance for the Chinese economy to bottom out. If all this holds, we might see a progress in bottoming out

of growth towards the end of the year.


GEORGIEVA: But let's remember, while inflation is trending down, it is still way above the target of 2 percent. And therefore interest rates will

remain still tight, throwing some cold water of the world economy.

CHATTERLEY: OK, so if I sum this up, hope with regards China and reopening resilience from consumers in particular. But clearly inflation is still a

problem. Can we be optimistic enough to say that the IMF believes that we've seen the peak in inflation and while there's still work to do to

bring it down? We've seen the worst.

GEORGIEVA: We've seen the big in headline inflation. We haven't quite yet seen core inflation picking, but indicators are that inflation is trending

downwards. And that is a reason to celebrate that Central Banks got it. They needed to act. They did so in a coordinated manner and faster than

many anticipated, the sign of inflation trimming down are with us.

CHATTERLEY: You know it's interesting. You heard from China, of course, and it's great to have the Chinese back. He caught people's attention talking

about reform development opening up no mention of COVID which is interesting.


CHATTERLEY: What did you make of that? Do you think this is the sort of China in a week coming in from the cold to use a very potent term here?

GEORGIEVA: What I can say is that the Chinese economy performed very badly in 2022. It is, for the first time in 40 years growing slower than the

average global growth 3 percent versus 3.2 never happened before. This is a big wake up call for China to do two things, one, take out COVID

restrictions and allows the economy to function.

Two, use its policy space to boost growth in the country. Of course, this is easily set, not done, because when you eliminate COVID restrictions in a

country of 1.4 billion people where there was zero COVID. Guess what happens bushfire COVID spreads.

So China has a job to do, but it appears that the Chinese consumer who has been sitting on savings from the COVID period of time is saying yay, time

to go out and spend giving a boost to growth in the country.

CHATTERLEY: It is going to open you up to the obvious criticism that you the IMF or they got it wrong again, or they've changed their minds is the

message here very briefly, just that your data dependent like everybody else.

GEORGIEVA: We are data dependent and we actually haven't changed our mind, we have said 23 is going to be difficult. What we are saying now is not as

bad as we feared. And look, we don't know how many countries would end up in recession; it looks like fewer than initially, we were concerned they

may be.

But if you have 0.2 percent growth, rather than minus 0.2 percent growth, still for hundreds of millions of people, it would feel right, like

recession so buckle up, it is still a difficult year, but with signs like here in Davos, Sunny shine.


GEORGIEVA: It sighs that towards the end of 23. We may be on an upswing.

CHATTERLEY: Yes OK, and we take it and it's a calibration we'll call it that. There are two things I want to talk about. So I'm going to be brief

now. The U.N. Secretary General said to me, we need a business model change at the IMF, because for things like climate finance, we need to raise money


The IMF, the World Bank needs to be able to accept that the business model has to change, some part of the losses have to be born. And that is a

difference in how the shareholders have looked at this in the past. Do you agree?

GEORGIEVA: Not only I agree, but I can tell you we are ahead of the curve, because we have already started shaping up a different business model.


GEORGIEVA: We recognize that climate risks are macro critical, also that opportunities of the green trust transition should be available to emerging

markets in developing countries. We have created a new instrument at the IMF, long term financing, exactly to support that transition.

And I'm very proud to say that the interest in the IMF being a force for good for transformation among our members is very high. I'm going to

Rwanda, one of the first four countries that have benefited with this new instrument.

CHATTERLEY: Yes and you should also tell me off and see Julia, there's profit potential here as well. Let's be clear. So I'm talking about all

losses and be doom and gloom, fragmentation risk as well. I mean, you're talking about, at its worst, a cost of 7 percent GDP. How do we stop that?

How do we prevent that?

GEORGIEVA: Well, number one, open up your eyes and recognize that decisions we make and how we implement the method. We have given the range from 0.2

percent to 7 percent, where we fall on this range would matter tremendously for how fast our economies grow.

And therefore, policymakers have to concentrate on yes; supply chains need to be more diversified. Yes, security of supplies, matters, but does it

wisely. Don't throw the baby with the bathwater; don't go in a world in which we try to close our borders. And the result is what we produce and

what we consume is costlier than before we end up poorer.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, competition is good, protectionism isn't.

GEORGIEVA: Not so good.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, Managing Director thank you so much for your time, as always.

GEORGIEVA: Thank you

CHATTERLEY: Big heart to you and your family, too.

GEORGIEVA: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, Kristalina Georgieva there the IMF Managing Director. All right, we're going to take a break, coming up insights into mitigating the

climate change crisis you just heard from there. Former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry says China's doing more than you might think. But he's

worried targets that by Paris really might start to slip. We've already slipped it gets worse. Joe Biden special envoy on climate is up next. Stay

with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", one of Abba's greatest hits has now formally been adopted - by me as the catchphrase of U.S. climate envoy

John Kerry. He told Davos, money, money, money he didn't sing, I do is needed to deliver a low carbon economy. He has concerns and he's voiced

them many times that the world will miss crucial targets set was in the Paris Climate Agreement.

And of course, he too, says it's essential that China is onboard. I spoke to him just before the show. Take a listen Secretary Kerry, great to have

you with us.


CHATTERLEY: The last time we spoke here, if you remember I asked you to promise that you would keep working on a climate deal. And you said like

he'd promised to keep working you couldn't promise on a deal so. Firstly, congratulations!

KERRY: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: And it's so good, the Europeans are some of them are furious.

KERRY: Well, people are a little concerned about some provisions. But I think all in all people understand this is a game changer. The President's

accomplishment and getting the most historic commitment to climate ever, is already paying dividends and I think that it's going to put people to work.

It's going to push the curve of technology and it really advances America's ability to be able to help in this race to do what is saying and important

for all of us.

CHATTERLEY: Do you think the Europeans might have a point? Are you willing to negotiate? Does it sort of go a little bit beyond competitive and

perhaps into protectionist territory with some of the made in America provisions?

KERRY: I certainly can see certain provisions where they interpreted it that way or they feel concerned about it. But I think President Biden's

approach to this is to sit with our friends, work through differences where we can, but to still point out to people look, the most important thing

they can do is do another build themselves. Do we need to accelerate so much right now? That it's not enough just to have the United States moving

as it is or some other countries? We need everybody engaged in this.

CHATTERLEY: I sort of race to the bottom in terms of emissions. It should be a virtuous cycle surely --.

KERRY: I hadn't thought about that yes.

CHATTERLEY: It's not query, I loved that.

KERRY: But yes, great well, maybe a mission so otherwise people will think you're taking us in the right direction. A race to the top and jobs

technology, health, safety, security but yes, let's get rid of those emissions.


CHATTERLEY: We have to hit the Paris targets of 1.5 percent limitation on global warming. You voiced real concern I would argue frightened actually

that we're not going to hit them.

KERRY: Well, I'm concerned; I'm not frightened because we can have them. I'm encouraged by what is happening and I think we have an enormous

opportunity in front of us; this is an incredible economic opportunity.

There are benefits that can come to everybody in the world as a result of pressing forward on new technologies, green hydrogen battery storage, that

is longer direct carbon capture utilization storage. Who knows where we go with small modular nuclear reactors or with fusion in the longer run.

But all in all, this is going to wind up having positives for everybody. But most importantly, we will live up to the challenge the scientists have

given us to avoid the worst consequences of the climate crisis, and you only avoid the worst consequences if you keep the limit to the 1.5 degrees.

That's why it's so important and unless you meet the goal by 2030, of reducing about 45 percent, barring some miraculous change in the

technology, you can't get to net zero by 2050. So everything's connected

CHATTERLEY: Everything slips if you--

KERRY: Exactly you slip and right now, despite the promises of Paris, Glasgow, and Sharm el-Sheikh, we are not fulfilling those promises. We're

not doing enough yet to hit the target. So we're heading in the 2, 2.5, rather than coming down to the 1.5.

CHATTERLEY: You've said I'm going to keep quoting you. What's really required is money, money, money.

KERRY: Money and money.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, like the Abba song, actually, but I won't ask you to sing it, but money, money, money. I spoke to the U.N. Secretary General this

week. And he talked about the need, ultimately for a business model change at the IMF, but primarily the World Bank.

But the shareholders have to accept that this is no longer about giving money, and we try and make a return. This is about loss; this is about

taking the first loss to change the incentives to de risk finance, particularly for emerging markets. The United States is the biggest

shareholder. Are you on board with that concept?

KERRY: President Biden is committed to sensible reform of the multilateral development banks. And every country I've talked to right now is

encouraging us and other shareholders to come together and try to effect some transformation. But we're not asking those banks to suddenly go become

the riskiest financial institutions in the world.

We're simply trying to point out, but their job is to occasionally mitigate risk or take some risks, and make it possible for the private sector to

bring the trillions of dollars to the table necessary to affect this transition. I mean, the good economic reports the U.N. report, others say

that we have a deficit of about 2.5 trillion 4.5 trillion per year for the next 30 years. That's what it takes to do this and right now, we're at less

than about two, or somewhere around 1 trillion.

So we need to up the ante here, one of the best ways we could do that is to have money available that can help de risk. Philanthropies are stepping up,

they're putting some money on the table, countries are stepping up, and they're putting some public money on the table. I regret to say, we've gone

the other way in our country, because of the fight in the Congress over this issue.

But in the end, things are happening right now you can feel it CEOs, I mean, people want to stop and ask themselves. Why are the CEOs of some of

the most successful and largest employers in the world biggest companies that are you have Google and Apple and Microsoft and airline, you have

Salesforce, you have all these amazing companies are here? And they're pushing to move in this direction.

Despite the fact that we have some people in public life, who still want to ignore the science, ignore the reality and not do anything. The cost of not

doing things to meet the targets the scientists have given us is far costlier than any investment in doing this now. So we need to put some

money on the table.

CHATTERLEY: I guess the catch to that is it's easier for bigger business, perhaps than for smaller business, but just to be very specific. And I

couldn't agree more with you, but you talked about not excessive risk, but some additional risk. And when you take additional risk, you have to accept

the responsibility and the possibility that there will be loss, agree?

KERRY: Sure. I agree.

CHATTERLEY: That's fine--



KERRY: Yes, but you have people who have brought amazing products to the market.


KERRY: Created incredible companies.

CHATTERLEY: I'm making--

KERRY: --took the risk all by themselves. They didn't have somebody vouching for that. And in addition to that, you have a lot of folks who

lost the money along the way.


KERRY: So nobody said that it's going to be absolutely risk free but you can reduce the risk you can do what makes it a reasonable standard by which

the private capital hanging back waiting to see whether this is a good investment or not will say, you know what? This is now de risk sufficiently

that I think it's good for us to get in here. And we could move a lot of capital, which would accelerate the rate of the transition of this movement

to a clean energy economy.

CHATTERLEY: Agree, got to talk about China.


CHATTERLEY: you opening up, use words like reform development unit, China incredibly well, they're a fundamental part of the climate equation.

They're a fundamental part of the global economy. What did you make of it? How optimistic should we be?

KERRY: Well, we should be hopeful? Certainly, you know, no, the world cannot get to where we have to get to avoid the worst consequences of the

climate crisis without China being there and being helpful. Now we're engaged again, in conversations with China, I'm encouraged.

I think China is doing a lot more than people think, in trying to deploy renewables, manufacture the renewables. You know, we'd like to see more in

terms of moving away from coal and so forth. But we have to work together, we have to work together with an ability to recognize our common

responsibility, and to come to the table and help the rest of the world.

And if China and the United States can move on some of these things right now, and these next months, that will make a gigantic difference is one of

the top things that once you try to achieve, because it will accelerate action by everybody else, and it will facilitate that transformation. It

will also help a lot of people in various parts of the world who are suspicious of what China is doing or not doing.


KERRY: To see that China is there is part of the solution, not the problem, and at least addressing the problem in a very serious way and that would

help everybody.

CHATTERLEY: Race to the bottom there in admissions, at least nothing else. OK, more to come and more on today's tragic helicopter crash in Ukraine and

reaction from NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! And back to our top story today, at least 14 people have lost their lives when a helicopter crashed near a

kindergarten in a suburb of Kyiv. Among the dead, Ukraine's Interior Minister, about 25 others too were injured, including many children. It's

still not clear what caused the crash.

But we have just learned that the search and rescue missions have now ceased. President Zelenskyy is set to give a speech remotely to delegates

here in Davos in around 90 minutes. And we'll wait to see what he has to say about this and, of course, the ongoing war. In the meantime, I spoke to

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, and he also reacted to today's tragedy.

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: The helicopter crash was a new tragedy in a country which has suffered so much during this war. And my

condolences, of course, goes to all those who have lost their loved ones, their family members and friends. And it's yet another example of the human

cost of this war and the importance of supporting Ukraine because that's the fastest way to end the war.

CHATTERLEY: Tragedy, as you say, upon tragedy. We've had representatives from Ukraine here, the First Lady, we're going to hear from the President

too talking about the need for more weaponry, more sophisticated weaponry, everybody's talking now about the Leopold tanks in particular, whether or

not Germany is on board and will provide more what can you tell us?

STOLTENBERG: So first of all, the main message is that if we want peace and negotiated peace, that ensure that Ukraine prevails as a sovereign

independent nation, then we need to provide the military support to Ukraine, because most likely this war will end at the negotiating table.

And what we do know is that will happen around the table totally depends on the situation on the battlefield and therefore, to have peace tomorrow we

need military support to Ukraine today. And that includes more advanced weapons, and therefore welcome that NATO allies are stepping up.

The United States is leading the way with more advanced air defense system Patriot batteries, but also Canada, Germany and Netherlands have announced

more air defense. And then United Kingdom announced heavy battle tanks and many other allies have announced to more armored vehicles. So allies are

stepping up we will all meet in Germany on Friday, in the U.S. led support group for Ukraine to coordinate what we provide to Ukraine.

CHATTERLEY: We're going to hear from the German Chancellor today. I think everybody's hoping that we're going to get some sense of timing on those

Leopold's do you think we will?

STOLTENBERG: Well, some allies, including Poland and Lithuania have made it clear that they're ready to Leopold tanks to Ukraine and Finland soon to

become a NATO allies at the same. Of course, Germany has delivered a lot of important military support to Ukraine with artillery with ammunition and

also with the advanced air defense systems, the patriots that just recently announced.

There is a constant dialogue between NATO ally's consultations on exactly what kind of weapons and there is no need for more weapons and more

advanced weapons, heavier weapons to ensure that Ukraine wins and prevails as a democratic nation in Europe.

CHATTERLEY: The NATO Secretary General there. And Richard Quest join me. Richard tragedy upon tragedy it was interesting in that conversation, the

NATO Secretary General turned it immediately to the point that this wouldn't have happened by the war that was taking place. They wouldn't have

been in the air. He also then turned it to and I turned it to the need for more sophisticated weaponry. And of course, these tanks and weather

Germany's onboard?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Right. And this is the unusual and difficult point. What is the problem? I don't mean logistical problem

getting them there? And can Ukraine cope with different types of tanks and all that sort of thing.

But what is the problem in getting these tanks particularly Poland's leopard two tanks for Ukraine. And I talked to the Polish Prime Minister

here this morning. And I said, look, he said, he says we're waiting for Germany to give us permission. I said why you don't just send them because

you know, the old rule, better to ask for forgiveness, than ask permission.


MATEUSZ MORAWIECKI, POLISH PRIME MINISTER: It's not only about allowing or not allowing permission, not permission. The critically important point is

will Germans finally give their part of heavy artillery in particular heavy and modern tanks.


MORAWIECKI: And this is the major question because 14 tanks on top of 250 is not the game changer. But if France and in particular Germany, and some

other countries gave 20, 30 tanks each, then it could make a difference for Ukraine.


CHATTERLEY: It's fascinating Richard. And I actually spoke to the Finnish Prime Minister about this too and again that the point was Germany has to

step up here. And let's be clear, to your point. And I think sort of this inbuilt degree of pacifism.

Germany has come a long way, compared to where they were at the beginning of this war and before even providing weapons. It's just the counterpoint.

We could have a conversation about this, but I do want to move on because there are other things going on here too.

And I do think it's important to pick up on a sea change. You and I earlier two days it feels like two months already. We're talking about this doom

and gloom on the economic front. I spoke to the IMF Chief Kristalina Georgieva literally moments ago talking about sort of recalibrating their

outlook and a more positive and the signs of resilience despite the tragedy in Ukraine and the spillover effect?

QUEST: Well, this upgrading, recalibrating. Let's see how far it goes.


QUEST: Because we've still got a bit more tightening to come. And I think what's happening is that it's those countries that are not as badly

affected that are just been that little spark and engine. Now the U.S. of course, is way up there in that sense. You know, the U.S. the job egg? That

is the conundrum that no one really understands why is job growth still so strong, unemployment remaining so low and the labor market so powerful?

CHATTERLEY: Consumer, the mighty consumer, isn't it?

QUEST: Well, that's where to let that doubt as long as you're around.

CHATTERLEY: I'm biting them a bit of time, Richard, and the Swiss. China, China was the big one here.

QUEST: I don't understand it. I don't understand that speech yesterday. It says we're not - he says anybody who says we're not a planned economy that

is not possible. It's exactly what they are.

CHATTERLEY: No mention of COVID. We're opening up - no mention of COVID but we're opening up reform. We're going to include development. We're not a

planned economy we can't be that we need to support the private sector.

Doesn't it sound like look at that growth figure, look at the concerns, and look at COVID. They've told the private sector effectively, you're not

welcome. And it doesn't work for their economy; they have to U-turn there is a U turn taking place there?

QUEST: There may well be a U-turn. But the underlying economic malaise as a result of pandemic and as a result of shutdown, how much rot is in the

system? And this demographic number by the way that China's population is shrinking. We don't know how long that's been going on. Do you believe that

it's only just started now? Or has it really been several years and they're only fusing up now?

CHATTERLEY: The beauty of a planned economy Richard--

QUEST: We're also planned economy--

CHATTERLEY: What's the problem --?

QUEST: We're not a planned economy.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we're not buying that. We've agreed Richard, mark this moment - is sticking around you - I got to go into a climate panel and get

the rest of the show. Rahel, she's already in the hot seat.

QUEST: Sorry about that.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you, Richard Quest there. All right, that is it from me today. And Rahel Solomon is going to take over and we'll be back for me

after this break. Thank you, Rahel. And you can see my conversations with the Prime Ministers of both Spain and Finland. So don't move a muscle wait

with CNN.



RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST AND CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back! I'm Rahel Solomon in New York, at Davos. Spain and Finland are reiterating their support for

the people of Ukraine. The Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez told Julia he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin has been weakened and now it's

crucial that Europe show solidarity.


PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER: The price that the Ukrainian people, a Spain is so high and they need to feel the solidarity and the empathy and

the commitment of the whole European Union. So we will be with Ukrainian as long as it takes.

And I think this is as it lasts. And I think this is crucial to say it, because even though the implication economic and social implications for

the whole European Union are really important. I think it's important to keep in mind that this war is not only about territorial integrity of third country, but also it goes against the values

and principles that we are defending, which of course are democracy, human rights, freedom, and so on and so forth.

CHATTERLEY: And Ukraine's First Lady, I think, echoed that sentiment here today too. Can spring do more for Ukraine?

SANCHEZ: Of course, I think that all member states, we can do more. But what we need to keep is the unity, the unity in the economic sanctions

response against Russian autocrats. The humanitarian aid, the military solidarity through the European Union instruments but also bilaterally.

And finally, hosting refugees in Spain, for instance, we have received so far since the beginning of the war, over 150,000 refugees. And they have

the same rights than any other Spanish. So I think the main message is to keep the unity and of course, send the message that we will be there as

long as it lasts.

CHATTERLEY: The dawning realization, I think, and it's being discussed here that no one can see a resolution. No one sees what the path here is to

peace. Do you share that fear, too?

SANCHEZ: I think it's important that we keep that contact even with Putin. I think I strongly advocate that, for instance, the French Government and

the German Government, which before the war were in this Normandy Format, they reached the Minsk Agreement, together with the Russian Government and

Ukrainian Government before the war.

CHATTERLEY: Do you think Putin sees that as a weakness though?

SANCHEZ: No, I don't think so. I think it is important that they take that leap, Chancellor Scholz and President Macron. And the rest of the European

Union, we go behind them and we'll see what happens in the coming months.

But the message of unity I think it's very, very important, especially now, especially after when we see the results of the war the changes - the lack

of strategy that apparently Putin is suffering. I think it's important that we keep united and we send a message of solidarity and support and backing



SOLOMON: And Julia also spoke with the Prime Minister of Finland, Sanna Marin. The nation shares a long border with Russia to discuss Europe's

wrong unity as well as Finland's bid to join NATO.



SANNA MARIN, FINNISH PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think that Europe, and its partners have shown incredible unity and strength, when we have faced these

big challenges. First, the global pandemic, then the war in Ukraine, Russia's brutal attack against Ukraine and now the energy crisis that we're

in middle of.

I think we will stay united, we will stay strong, and we need to be even stronger. And we also need that cooperation those partnerships with our

closest and trusted allies such like United States, Canada, but also our partners in Asia in the Pacific. We need more democratic countries

cooperating together to facing the geopolitical challenges that we have faced.

CHATTERLEY: Is Ukraine winning, because some of the discussion, at least I'm having here is, is the fear that there's no end in sight. And if

there's no end in sight for the poor people of Ukraine in this war than the consequences of all of which in many at least, you just mentioned, sort of

continue too?

MARIN: Ukraine will win the war with our support. And the clear message that we have to send is that we will support as long as it's needed.

Whether it's another year, whether it's five years, whether it's 10 or 15 years?

We will continue supporting Ukraine, putting more heavier sanctions against Russia sending more and more advanced weapons in to Ukraine, and then, of

course, humans to aid financial aid, taking refugees from Ukraine, and we need to make sure that Ukraine will win. It will win the war with our help.

There's no other alternative.

CHATTERLEY: Can I ask about the leopard two--

MARIN: Of course, you can.

CHATTERLEY: --the decision on that. When we make a decision how we make a decision? Are you waiting for others first?

MARIN: We need European decision. Together, we have to make that decision. Finland is willing to participate. And we need everybody on board. Ukraine

needs more weapons. They need more advanced weapons.

They need Leopard, and they need also other kinds of weapons. And we need to support them. I think this decision will happen. I'm not sure when

hopefully soon that we can send also this kind of material to Ukraine, they need our help.

CHATTERLEY: It's also a decision for your own borders as well. And part of the reason for the decision over accession to NATO too. The message it

seems from Turkey, at least in the past few days is well.


SOLOMON: I want to take you now back to Davos where the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is giving a special address let's listen.

OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: --toward climate neutrality then came February 24th. Since then, Russia has been waging an imperialist war of

aggression here on our doorstep in Europe. With that foot dreadful consequences that Ukrainians are bearing more than anyone.

Just today, the Secretary of the Interior and 15 others other victims were killed in a tragic helicopter crash. We are with their families. But the

war is also having an impact on all of us. For a while energy prices jumped to levels higher than we had ever seen before.

Around the world production costs and consumer prices exploded. Many people fear that coal and oil will make a lasting comeback all across the world.

If that were to happen, the 1.5 degree target would become meaningless. Our supply chains must be adapted to new geopolitical realities.

Realities that you called a messy patchwork of powers in your speech yesterday close. And over all of this hangs a smart of Democrats the danger

of a new fragmentation of the world of de-globalization and decoupling.

And yet, ladies and gentlemen, this is just one part of the story of last year, just one part of the reality that we are looking at here in Davos.

The other part of the story is this. Russia has already failed completely in reaching its imperialist goals.

Ukraine is defending itself with great success and impressive courage. A broad international alliance, led by the G7 is providing the country with

financial, economic, humanitarian and military support.

Germany alone made available over 12 billion euro last year, and we will continue to support Ukraine for as long as necessary. In Berlin at the end

of October we worked with international experts to draw up a marshal plan for the long term reconstruction of Ukraine.


SCHOLZ: A platform of major donors is coordinating the process and in consultation with Ukraine, ensuring that it is well implemented. Private

sector capital will play a key role here. I know that many companies in Germany and beyond are very aware of the opportunities that the Ukrainian

economic miracle could offer to them particularly as the country moves towards the European Union after the end of the war.

But in order for the war to end, Russia's aggression must fail. That is why we are continuously supplying Ukraine with large quantities of arms in

close consultation with our partners. This includes air defense systems like IRIS-T, or Patriot artillery, and armored infantry fighting vehicles,

marking a profound turning point in German foreign and security policy. And there's another part to the story of last year.

Within a few months, Germany made itself completely independent from Russian gas, Russian oil, and Russian coal. We concluded new partnerships

in Asia, Africa and America, thus lessening our dependence.

And so I can say that our energy supply for this winter is secure. Thanks to well food storage facilities, thanks to improved energy efficiency,

thanks to remarkable solidarity within Europe, and thanks to the readiness of our companies, and of millions of citizens to save energy.

As a result, energy prices have recently seen a huge stop and drop. Our measures to reduce the burden on private citizens, companies and businesses

are working. Inflation is falling slowly, thanks, incidentally, also to resolute moves by the central banks. Industrial production in Germany has

remained stable over the past few months against all the odds.

Our employment rate is at record levels and has recently increased even further. Most importantly, our transformation toward a climate neutral

economy the fundamental task of our century is currently taking on an entirely new dynamic.

Not in spite of but because of the Russian war, and the resulting pressure on us Europeans to change whether you are a business leader or a climate

activist, a security policy specialist or an investor it is now crystal clear to each and every one of us that the future belongs solely to

renewables for cost reasons, for environmental reasons, for security reasons, and because in the long run, renewable promise the best returns.

So yes, the past year brought fundamental change for Germany and Europe. But Germany itself has fundamentally changed as well. We are resolutely

pushing forward with the decarburization of our industry. We want to be climate neutral by 2045.

And at the same time, we will remain a country with a strong manufacturing sector. And despite all the difficulties this past year showed us, we can

and we will succeed in that. In less than seven months, we built up an entirely new import infrastructure for LNG and - half. In the future it can

also be used for hydrogen.

Just last Saturday, I opened our second LNG terminal within just a few weeks in --. The day after tomorrow and other terminal ship is expected to

arrive at the port of Juan spittle, more the follow. This is not only good news for energy security and that of our European neighbors who will be

receiving guests from these terminals.

Above all it shows Germany can be flexible, we can be un-bureaucratic and we can be fast. I spoke of a new - in this regard a new German speed. We

will make this German Speed the benchmark also for the transformation of the economy as a whole. Your companies can hold us to this standard.


SCHOLZ: And new law mandates that the expansion of wind power, solar energy, as well as electricity and hydrogen networks, now take priority. We

will make available no less than 2 percent of our country for wind power with a minimum of red tape. We have streamed--

SOLOMON: And we are listening there to German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, addressing the World Economic Forum spending his time exclusively talking

about the war initially talking about the tragic helicopter crash in Ukraine saying that we are with their families.

But then quickly pivoting to Germany's support for Ukraine and its war saying Ukraine successful efforts at protecting itself, saying we will

continue to support Ukraine for as long as necessary. And also pointing out the Germany has managed to wean itself off of Russian energy saying it has

made itself independent from Russian energy.

Again, that was German Chancellor Olaf Scholz there at the World Economic Forum. And that is it for the show. I'm Rahel Solomon. "Connect the World"

with Becky Anderson is next.