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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Biden in Warsaw to Discuss Support for Ukraine; At Least Six Killed, Hundreds Injured by Powerful Aftershocks; Ukrainian Grain Mills Battle against Odds to Provide Food; Putin Marks Anniversary of "Special Military Operation"; U.S. Supreme Court to hear Cases Involving Big Tech; First Generation iPhones sells for $63,000 at Auction. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired February 21, 2023 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move", fantastic to have you with us as always. And just ahead on todays' show two
world leaders two starkly different versions of the war in Ukraine and the way forward for superpower and indeed global relations. Russian President
Vladimir Putin escalating his rhetoric against the West as the first anniversary of the Ukraine conflict approaches.
In a speech billed as a State of the Nation Address Putin deflecting blame for starting the war, suggesting Russia has done all it can to promote
peace, while accusing the West of trying to "Destroy Russia". He also announced Russia will suspend participation in the New START nuclear
control treaty.
A study in contrast, though, of course not builds a such. U.S. President Joe Biden will also mark the anniversary of Russia's invasion with a speech
in Poland later today. Biden meeting with the Polish President in Warsaw as I speak, and following his surprise historic visit to Kyiv, of course too
on Monday.
The U.S. President pledging $500 million in fresh support to Ukraine's defense new Western sanctions against Russia expected to be announced soon
too. A complete team coverage of today's events just ahead as well as a closer look at the walls deep and transformative impact on Ukraine's
economy.
One year on, we'll hear from the Deputy General of wheat and grain factory firm Argo-Yug-Service. A company that continues to provide food to its
citizens against all odds, and is even shipping green to earthquake struck Turkey too. He sees President Biden's trip to Ukraine as a crucial show of
support and a sign that victory for his nation is in sight.
But first to the talks between U.S. President Biden and his Polish counterpart currently underway and as those discussions began, President
Biden spoke about the close security ties between the two nations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Truth of the matter is the United States needs Poland and NATO as much as NATO needs United States
because there is no way in which for our ability to operate anywhere else in the world and our responsibilities extend beyond Europe. We have to have
a security in Europe. It's that basic, that simple, and that consequential.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Those talks of course, coming ahead of President Biden's pivotal speech later from Warsaw's Royal Castle. And I'm pleased to say CNN
Chief International Anchor; Christiane Amanpour is in Warsaw for us and joins us now. Christiane, great to have you on the show!
Those talks, let's start there. I began with heartfelt thanks from both leaders, I think to President Duda for his leadership and support for
Ukraine and, of course, towards President Biden simply for being there, I think at this pivotal moment.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Absolutely, Julia, I mean, I was actually struck by the extensive praise of President Duda here
to President Biden for going to Ukraine, not even coming to Poland.
But first, for going to Ukraine and for showing not just a physically and personally and morally courageous step forward but symbolically and
actually saying that the leader of the free world, the most powerful country in the world, is still in it for the long haul to support Ukraine's
independence, its democracy, its sovereignty, its territorial integrity that was an incredibly important moment of very important historically.
And President Duda also put President Biden's actions right now, in the context of all those decades ago, he talked about Ronald Reagan aligned
with two great Polish heroes, Pope John Paul the second and Lech Walesa, who created the anti-communist movement that eventually ended, the Soviet
Union brought down the Berlin Wall, all the way to now where the United States headed by Joe Biden is fighting for global democracy versus
autocracy.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, there are times throughout history and it all is a prelude to the speech that we're expected to hear Joe Biden make later on today. It
will draw contrast, even as the White House has said, look, this is not about compare and contrast or a head to head with President Putin. But we
did hear from him earlier today too. What are you expecting from this speech?
AMANPOUR: Well, it's interesting that from President Putin, we didn't really hear what maybe perhaps a lot of people were expecting, IE a war
plan for going ahead. He didn't really do much of that other than saying, we've got this and we're going to win step by step. He really just talked
about the four areas that they have illegally occupied, talked about, you know, doubling down on reconstructing and building those up.
But as you say, put everything in the context of blaming Ukraine and the West saying that it was therefore this war had started, and we were forced
to intervene to stop them so having said that, President Biden will set his narrative out about how it was actually an illegal invasion, breaking the
international laws and norms of respecting international borders.
[09:05:00]
AMANPOUR: And that it was just a continuation of what President Putin had started by invading parts of Ukraine back in 2014, including the annexation
of Crimea. Now, the key point, though, behind all these conversations is, what will it take for Ukraine to actually win?
Which is what NATO keeps saying, they say Putin must not win this one, Ukraine must? What is the definition of winning? We still don't know
they're being deliberately vague. But what we know for sure, is that Ukraine needs a lot of massively important right now ammunition to go with
all the high quality and high tech weapon systems, the United States and other NATO parents, sorry, NATO partners have sent to Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that was fundamentally echoed by the Lithuanian President, who we spoke to yesterday was saying exactly what you're saying
now actually tied to this and Christiane, I'd love to get your take on this was surprising comments that I picked up on from President Putin.
Talking about the sort of inadequacy of his own military, the need, I think you mentioned five years, I mean, never mind five years, they could do with
it now, but the modernization that's required in their military. It's a sort of stark contrast to what we've seen from the weaponry that has been
provided by NATO partners, and perhaps an acknowledgement from President Putin that they lack.
AMANPOUR: Well, look, I think you're absolutely right. But Putin, in a way had to say something like that, because although most of the people they
say in Russia support the war, many, many, particularly the military bloggers who are following the Russian forces in Ukraine have been scathing
about the Russian Ministry of Defense and the actual prosecution of this war.
And as we know, according to U.S. and NATO statistics, they believe some 200,000 Russians have been killed. Russian soldiers have been killed or
wounded in this past 12 months. That is at least double the estimates that they have for Ukraine. We don't know the full figures, but that is what the
West is saying.
So it is not going well for Putin, who began almost a year ago, by thinking you could take Kyiv, thinking you could take all these other places within
several days and certainly the West thought that as well. And so this last year has been a tale of epic resistance, and 1,000 percent, of punching
above world expectations by the Ukrainians supported by the West and NATO.
But I agree with you, Putin did acknowledge that there needs to be a much more serious fix up, if you like, of the Russian Military. He also
complained about essentially corruption about many of Russian oligarchs and others, maybe even some in the military, who he talked about, you, know,
scampering, or scattering with their yachts and leaving the country.
So I think there was that and he also then had to pay tribute to the families. He had to acknowledge that there were deaths that many deaths now
because obviously, the families know this, right? So he had to pay tribute to the families of what he called the heroes.
Of course, nowhere in that was any acknowledgement of the war crimes and crimes against humanity that the U.S. and others accused Russian forces of,
we saw it in Bucha. We're hearing it all over the place, including in Eastern Ukraine. And, you know, we know that a very strong part of Russia's
attack force is a group of criminals who belong to the Wagner group, who do not fight according to the laws and norms of war as we know it. So, you
know, it's a sticky situation for all.
CHATTERLEY: To your point into your earlier point to the hopes for peace, the ongoing talks of peace and how ultimately, this are resolved?
Christiane, I have to let you go. Fantastic as always, to have your context, thank you. And let's continue that discussion a day after U.S.
President Joe Biden said Vladimir Putin's war of conquest is failing.
The Russian Leader providing a starkly different perspective on the war. In his State of the Nation speech, President Putin claimed Russia's, "Special
Military Operation". He's still calling it that was necessary to defend Russia and its identity while blaming the West for the conflict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA: The elite of the West does not conceal their ambitions, which is to strategically defeat Russia. What does that
mean? It means to finish you once and for all. And to make local, they do that by making local conflicts into much wider and bigger ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And Clare Sebastian joins us now on this. Clare, I know you were listening to the whole speech, which went on for a seriously long
time. So there's much to unpack. I think one of the pieces that we haven't yet drawn out from that speech was the decision to suspend their
participation in the nuclear control agreement with the United States and beyond.
[09:10:00]
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia, this came in the final few minutes really of this very long speech almost a record in terms of the
length that he's given these sort of state of the nation speeches. The point is that he's suspending Russia's participation in this new START
treaty not he said, very clearly withdrawing for it.
So leaving his options open to come back in the future. But this doesn't really change the current status quo because the U.S. had already deemed
Russia in technical non-compliance with this treaty. Russia had not allowed inspectors to come in and inspect its nuclear sites, its nuclear arsenal
since COVID.
Obviously, the inspections were suspended under COVID. So that has led the U.S. to call them in non-compliance. President Putin though, in keeping
with the general theme of this speech, blaming the U.S. for this situation saying that requests for Russia to allow these inspections was "Theater of
the absurd" and that they were never going to do this because they believe that NATO was complicit in strikes on its airbases that a reference clearly
to separate drone strikes on the Russian Engels airbase in Southwestern Russia.
That is where we believe some nuclear and nuclear capable weapons are stored. Those drone attacks are believed to be coming from Ukraine. He says
NATO is complicit though because of the provision of weapons and because of that, he doesn't really feel that Russia should be allowing these
inspections.
So that is a piece of news the U.S. side that says it's going to wait to see the practical impact of this and State Department Spokesperson Ned
Price on our air just now, saying that they still have channels of communication open with Russia despite all of this, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Clare Sebastian, thank you so much for that. Now all this coming is China's top Diplomat Wang Yi has arrived in Moscow now for talks
with Russia's Foreign Minister. It comes amid concerns that Beijing might support the Russian war efforts in Ukraine.
Meanwhile, the Chinese Foreign Minister says he worries the situation could spiral out of control. Marc Stewart joins us now. Marc this trip, I think
underscoring the geopolitical fault lines between the world's superpowers. What stood out to me and continues to be I think noticeable as China's
continuing to call it the Ukraine issue, or the Ukraine crisis, rather than even calling it a war?
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, this issue of terminology is a very important one. As you mentioned, China will not refer to this conflict as a
war, but instead a special military operation. And it's interesting, there are so many parallels in the messages that we are hearing from Moscow as
well as Beijing.
For example, China is putting the blame on NATO; it's also putting the blame on the U.S. for what has escalated. Take a listen to some remarks
that we heard earlier today from Qin Gang who is the Chinese Foreign Minister.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QIN GANG, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTER: We urge certain countries to immediately stop fueling the fire, stop shifting blame to China, and stop
hyping up Ukraine today, Taiwan tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: Interesting that he brought up Taiwan. So we have a political discussion that's taking place we have military action that's taking place.
But Julia, I would be remiss if I didn't bring up the economic relationship between China and Russia. China has depended on Russia for a trade as a
significant trade partner.
And then as we have seen most recently, China purchases a lot of energy from Russia as well. So that's a relationship in addition to this political
discussion that we're having that quite frankly cannot be ignored.
CHATTERLEY: Yes and will not be. Marc Stewart, thank you so much for joining us on that. OK to Turkey now and at least six people have died and
hundreds more injured after a series of powerful aftershocks struck Turkey on Monday. Nada Bashir joins us now with the latest. Nada, I could only
imagine how terrified people were as this latest aftershock took place and there must be a palpable fear of being inside.
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Yes, absolutely. I mean, this is a region which has already been through absolutely the worst. That earthquake two weeks
ago has completely devastated parts of the Southeast of this country. And this aftershock has been a cause for a huge amount of fear, concern and
distress to have to relive that trauma.
We're in Adana, which is about 70 miles away from the reported Epicenter and Define which is in part a province, which was among the worst hit of
the 11 provinces impacted by that earthquake two weeks ago. And we're already here seeing that tension, that sense of fear and of course,
apprehension.
We felt the tremor in Adana, we saw people in our hotel, moving all their things to the lobby of the hotel so that it could be closer to the exit for
fear of another aftershock. And just to give our viewers a sense, I mean, these aftershocks have been happening quite frequently for the last two
weeks.
[09:15:00]
BASHIR: But this was the most powerful of those aftershocks and really struck fear into a lot of people at this stage. Authorities have already
identified at least 294 people who have been injured as a result of this aftershock, 18 of them in a serious condition. Of course, there is a new
death toll at least six people killed as a direct result of this aftershock.
But this is a region which has already seen a significant - as a result of the earthquake two weeks ago. Topping 41,000 in Turkey and we are talking
about thousands and thousands of people who have been left homeless, have lost loved ones who have lost absolutely everything.
So you can imagine that this latest aftershock has been a huge moment of concern and fear for people here. The Turkish government for its part is
still working on the ground when it comes to the humanitarian response effort. We saw rescue teams on the ground in the worst affected areas last
night trying to provide support to anybody trapped beneath the rubble.
We've also seen those aid groups still operating on the ground field. Hospitals are still working around the clock. And there is a real focus now
on providing that housing and accommodation for those most in need. And the Turkish government for its part says it is committed to rebuilding those
affected areas within a year.
But to just look at the destruction, the scale of the devastation, it is almost unimaginable to think that that could be rebuilt in a year. And I
have to say here in Turkey, there is a growing sense of frustration and anger particularly after this latest aftershock questions as to why the
Turkish Government perhaps isn't as prepared for such a disaster?
Why some people are still waiting in hotels, unsure of what's going to happen to them? Where they go next? We've seen people here in Adana, almost
stranded essentially, in these hotels, they have no idea what the next steps are for them, for their families for their children?
When they might be able to return to school? Where they will be housed over the coming weeks in desperate need of humanitarian assistance? And there
has been a huge outpouring of support. We've seen the international community stepping up supporting the search and rescue effort now
supporting the humanitarian response efforts.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken visiting those worst affected areas over the weekend and committing further support in the form of $100 million in
funding to that relief effort over the weekend and he acknowledged this in his address to some of those U.S. rescue teams working on the ground saying
that the U.S. would have to stand behind tagging not only through the search and rescue operation, not only through the humanitarian response
effort, but also through the rebuilding effort.
And that is something that is going to take months if not years there is a long road ahead for Turkey and this latest aftershock has really only
underscored the fear, the apprehension, the uncertainty that people here in Southeast Turkey are currently living through.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, as you say a long road ahead and our thoughts and prayers with all those involved. Nada Bashir thank you for that report! OK straight
ahead here on "First Move", resilience against all odds we live as a family run Ukrainian flour mill reliant on international help. Plus, Putin's plan
what is his latest to read against the West mean for the future of the war in Ukraine? That's all coming up, stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", on the day when the ideological chasm between Russia and the United States is laid bare. One of the few
diplomatic successes brought about by the international cooperation is the agreement to supply Ukrainian grain to the rest of the world.
According to figures released this week by the World Food Programme, nearly 20 million tonnes of grain and other foodstuffs has been exported in 694
shipments. The deal is a critical to the survival of both grain producers but also those that are receiving that food. In Southern Ukraine Argo-Yug-
Service offers one of the largest grain mills in the region.
It also makes products like pasta and cookies. Production is still growing despite a depleted workforce, intermittent electricity supplies and of
course the challenge of volatile prices. By working directly with the World Food Programme, it's able to maintain production.
And they've still managed to donate grain to earthquake affected regions of both Turkey and Syria. Shamil Malachiyev is the Co-owner and Deputy General
Director of Argo-Yug-Service. Shamil, great to have you on the show! I think it's almost been a year, since you and I spoke since the war began in
Ukraine.
I know much has changed, and we'll talk through it. But I did want to start by asking you what it means to you and your workers into your family to
have President Biden visiting Kyiv, this week? How meaningful was it?
SHAMIL MALACHIYEV, CO-OWNER AND DEPUTY GENERAL DIRECTOR OF AGRO-YUG-SERVICE LLC: First of all, thank you for having me, Julia. And, you know, having
President Biden making a surprise visit to Ukraine was a bright beam of light of hope for all of Ukrainians. It really did a great job of uplifting
of spirits, giving us that extra hope.
And, you know, in such a historical gesture, showing this much support and this level of support towards all of us, I think all of Ukraine is uplifted
and ready to fight and has a lot of hope to, you know, emerge victorious from this war in nearing months.
CHATTERLEY: You mean hope that the end of the war is in sight?
MALACHIYEV: Exactly, with this level of support, I think it will be.
CHATTERLEY: In the meantime, I know you're doing your best to manage providing foodstuffs, essential not just for Ukraine, of course, but
elsewhere in the world, but also managing your employees and regulations are set to change. I believe, which will mean, you can only reserve 50
percent of your workforce, I believe you've also lost one of your workers, who was actually fighting on the frontlines.
MALACHIYEV: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Just talk to me about managing your workforce and also, I know that the person that you've lost.
MALACHIYEV: Well, it's - really hard to make sure that we can, you know, the fact that we can keep operational with, you know, having employees
leave the factory, and, you know, being in danger of dying at about front, because the battles are getting really fierce, especially over the last
month with huge level of mobilization from Russia.
And we've had six men leave for battlefront, one of which almost died so far, which has been a tremendous loss to our factory. And the newest
regulations only allow us, as you said, to reserve only 50 percent of over a man for the period of six months. And after that we'll only be allowed to
reserve 50 percent of those 50 percent.
Obviously, that excludes people with the experience that is in dire need on the battlefront with the military experience.
CHATTERLEY: Can I just ask you man about the worker that you lost now that you mentioned it? Have you managed to do anything for his family? Was he
married? Did he have children?
[09:25:00]
MALACHIYEV: Of course all of our employees we will be doing everything. We can to make sure that, we can support them to ensure that we can do like
everything, we can to help them live through this work. We've helped his wife and kids, making sure that, you know, they have funds to sustain
themselves for at least a year.
And this was - that we could. Also all of the other employees at the factory, they did a little fundraiser as well, to help the family.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you for that. Just important to ask, there are many families out there that are suffering, I know. Talk to me about just the
challenges of day to day running of the factory, because we know in many cases, and in certain parts of the country, infrastructure is being
targeted.
And that's created problems in terms of water supply and electricity supply. And you're managing with intermittent electricity, which I think
for any business, and particularly a factory is tough to handle. What are conditions like, currently?
MALACHIYEV: Well, currently, for the last three days, we didn't have any electricity shutdowns, which is magical, I would say, having to leave for
the last seven months without any water supply. And with, you know, electricity works around 40 percent of the time, you know, with 2.5 hours,
3.5 hours shifts.
And making sure that you know, the factory stays operational and running every day is a tough challenge. We were lucky that one of our friends, it
was a different factory that closed down; they had a generator, which they could lend us. And this allowed us to power the factory with the diesel
fuel during the times where that electricity has been shut down which in turn, uplifts our prime costs quite a bit with electricity been around
three times more expensive this way. But at least it helps us to ensure that we can continue producing because we have humanitarian aid that was
given out.
We'll set up the contract that we've managed to make with the World Food Programme, back in November, on which we're working pretty much at full
capacity at the moment. And yes, the situation is relatively tough. But you know, last few days, it's been getting better and we really hope that the
energy infrastructure is fixed for good in Ukraine at the moment.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, fingers crossed that can be sustained. I think a lot of people watching this will be wondering how you're managing to finance all
of this. As you said, working with the World Food Programme has been pivotal, I'm sure for ensuring demand and knowing what at least the near
future looks like in terms of what's required?
But how else are you financing this because I know you also provided I believe 21 tonnes of wheat flour directly to Turkey to help with the crisis
going on there. And I know you've also been providing free foodstuffs, bread in certain parts of the country, too. So, how are you managing
financially?
MALACHIYEV: Well, it was hard for us after losing the warehouse back in July, I think.
CHATTERLEY: Of Last year?
MALACHIYEV: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
MALACHIYEV: And since then we've taken out another like, line of credit from the banks under 0 percent interest rate, which is the government
initiative to help companies sustain themselves. And having a contract with World Food Programme actually allows us to.
You know, it's a reasonable amount of safety for us to launch other initiatives like helping the Turkey for example, because we really know
what it's like to have a - shattered to pieces with people's lives destroyed. And, you know, with all the support that Turkey has been given,
Ukraine as well with directors and helping with the Grain Deal, we felt obliged to also show a helping hand in the tough times when we can.
CHATTERLEY: Speaking of helping hand in tough times, we're actually showing video of you and your company providing bread, free bread to people in
Kherson and you can see people smiling and looking into the camera and pointing out that.
I think how grateful they are to have your support? Do you ever get disheartened, because this is incredibly tough? What you and your nation
are going through? You've talked about the loss, the suffering, you also talked about the hope at the beginning of this conversation, but do you get
this --?
[09:30:00]
MALACHIYEV: I think what helps us push through is the level of unity. We all live as one single organism at the moment, doing our best, you know,
with the people you've never met in a different city, you know what they're going through, you know, like, what they're suffering, and you almost feel
like a family. So you're trying to do everything you can to help as many people as you can.
And I think that's part of the spirit of every Ukrainian. And this is why we've been doing so well, fighting off Russian forces. And with the
humanitarian aid, we're never going to stop, even you know, after the war was still going to have to continue going for another two or three years,
making sure that we rebuilt.
And receiving so much support from all of our American friends, and I hope some of them are watching us right now. We have a lot of American families
donating money, which goes directly to; to us providing wheat flour for volunteering and green stations for the bakeries that supply free bread, to
the places of really close to the battlefront.
And, you know, having all of that support and seeing all of the smiling people with, you know, with amount of thanks that they give us and to every
worker and employee of the factory, it really fills us makes us feel that we're doing our life's mission, and it's the righteous one.
CHATTERLEY: I think you're a good representative of both the heart the care and the spirit of Ukrainians that they -
MALACHIYEV: I want to believe so.
CHATTERLEY: Stay safe, please. We'll talk to you again soon. Thank you for your time. OK, we're back after this.
MALACHIYEV: Thank you very much.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you, stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". And ahead at the anniversary of the war in Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin is attempting to
reframe the conflict. During his State of the Nation Address, the Russian leader claimed the war was necessary to defend Russia's identity while
accusing Ukraine of serving the interests of the West.
[09:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PUTIN: They're responsible for the escalation of the situation in Ukraine for the huge numbers of casualties. And of course, the Kyiv regime is
essentially alien to the people of Ukraine. They are not protecting their own interests, but those of their minder countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: President Putin also announced that Russia is suspending its participation in the New START Nuclear Arms Reduction Treaty. U.S.
Secretary of State's Antony Blinken called the decision "deeply unfortunate and irresponsible".
Joining us now is Ben Judah, Director and Senior Fellow of the Atlantic Council. He's also the author of fragile empire, how Russia fell in and out
of love with Vladimir Putin, Ben, great to have you on the show. Much of the same rhetoric, I think, in many cases that we've heard from Vladimir
Putin before many different audiences, I think, for the content here too. What was the most important audience in your mind?
BEN JUDAH, DIRECTOR & SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: I think it's very important to remember that Vladimir Putin is speaking to different groups
of people when he does the speeches. The most important for him is that audiences literally right there in the room, it's the audience of governors
and spy chiefs and military chiefs and oligarchs and his speech today was telling them, I'm sticking with the war.
Then the next audience, which really matters to him, is the audience that's watching at home in Russia, it's the Russian people. And he's trying to
explain to them why this war has gone so badly and why it's causing such degradation in the quality of their lives through sanctions. What he's
telling them here today is, this is not a war against Ukraine, which I told you as a weak country, it's a war against the West.
Then there's another audience out there in international politics, which we don't think about enough, which is the global South, which is the countries
that are not part of the West and not Russia, or its immediate allies, countries like India, Brazil, countries in Africa, Southeast Asia, where
Russian propaganda is succeeding as it fails in the West.
He was speaking to them framing this as self-defense against an aggressive and hegemonic West. And then lastly, we're the audience. And by that, I
mean the media and policy classes of the Western alliance and he's trying to frighten us by making us think that he's going to kind of turn up the
costs for us on this war. And one of the things that he's got to play now is an arms race or the threat of an arms race, by pulling out of the START
treaty.
CHATTERLEY: Right, and your point about the global south here is fascinating, because I think the anti -western propaganda and the message
clearly isn't bought by nations across the west. But to your point, it can be incredibly potent in some of those nations.
And we've seen that at the United Nations Security Council and the way that they vote or abstain, in particular. Where does this leave Russia, one year
on from this warming, he acknowledged? And we talked about this earlier on in the show, how the military has lacked the fact that they need to see
dramatic modernization over the next five years. Can Vladimir Putin whether it's socially, economically, militarily, politically withstand another year
of war in your mind?
JUDAH: Well, this is why the question of how Russia relates to the global south and China is so important. The fact that governments in India and
Turkey and across Africa, Southeast Asia and South America and in the Gulf have been open or sympathetic partially to Putin's arguments means that
he's been able to do sanction evasion through many of those territories.
The West is not enforcing secondary sanctions on those territories not going after, as of yet kind of Emirati or Saudi or Turkish companies that
are doing business with the Russians. So he's kept a door open to Russia's trade with the world through his diplomacy and his successful propaganda in
that part of the world. And then there's the question of China.
So the Munich Security gathering, which just took place a few days ago, and was largely seen as a sort of festival of celebration for the West had a
big China shaped shadow over it, which was the warning by Tony Blinken, the U.S. Secretary of State that China might be willing to start supplying
lethal weapons to Russia to keep itself going in the war.
Now, if China does do that that would be an astounding success for Vladimir Putin in his international diplomacy. And that would mean a dramatic change
in how China relates to Russia. I think the most significant change in how China relates to Russia since the 1970s.
CHATTERLEY: Hold that thought, because I do want to explore that very briefly in a moment. I just want to share my view is what we're seeing now
which is crowds building at Warsaw Castle ahead of President Biden speech.
[09:40:00]
CHATTERLEY: There's going to be this compare and contrast naturally, despite the White House saying, look, this is not a head to head with
Vladimir Putin and obviously spoke earlier, and we've been discussing. But you can see even two hours ahead of that speech, huge crowds building
there. Ben, bring it back, because I think this is a vitally important point that you're making.
And perhaps, if I try and put it into some kind of more concise English, if I can the idea and the fear that perhaps Russia becomes a proxy for a
broader geopolitical battle between the United States and China.
JUDAH: Well, that's one of the things that the countries of the global south quite concerned about, like we've been hearing that countries in
South America, Africa, South and Southeast Asia, are very concerned that in a world where development and climate change and rising interest rates have
all been huge problems for them not to mention a debt crisis. If the Ukraine war turns into what they would call a proxy war between China and
the United States, they think that will make solving their problems harder.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Ben, great to get your context. Thank you so much, Ben Judah, Director and Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council. All right,
coming up now on "First Move", is it time for tech con content moderation, at least. The U.S. Supreme Court is about to hear two cases that could
truly affect the way that internet search operates in future, a live report from Washington next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". An unspeakable tragedy is triggering an unprecedented debate on the powers of Big Tech and the
current level, lack of controls regarding online content. The U.S. Supreme Court begins hearing the first of two major cases today that could have
major implications for what we see on the internet.
The big question, are online content providers legally responsible for certain content on their platforms? Jessica Schneider joins us now and has
been looking at this. Jessica help my audience understand what's at stake?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's at stake could really be a huge change for the Internet and the way that social media
companies are run. And because of that Julia, tech companies are really bracing for this showdown at the Supreme Court.
[09:45:00]
SCHNEIDER: Today, it will be a first of its kind case at 10 o'clock this morning and just 15 minutes, the justices will be deciding if the family of
an American student who is killed in the 2015 Paris terror attacks, whether they can sue YouTube's parent company Google, because of the algorithms
that YouTube use that the family says actually promoted terrorist content online.
YouTube is saying that those algorithms are all protected broadly by Section 230, which a law was passed by Congress here in the U.S. in 1996.
And the Big Tech companies are warning that if that protection gets chipped away, it could mean monumental changes for the internet.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEATRIZ GONZALEZ, DAUGHTER KILLED IN 2015 ISIS ATTACK: We conclude in this fight because we're seeking justice.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): The Gonzalez family's long legal fights started when their 23 year old daughter Nohemi was killed in Paris in 2015. Nohemi
Gonzalez was at a bistro when ISIS terrorists unleashed gunfire, part of a coordinated citywide attack of bombings and shootings that killed 129
people. She was the only American.
GONZALEZ: It was a terrible, horrible moment in my life that I cannot describe, the pain.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): The Gonzales family now wants YouTube and parent company Google to be held liable for Nohemi's death. They've lost in the
lower courts. But the Supreme Court agreed to hear their appeal, and their lawyers will now try to convince the nine justices that YouTube's
algorithms promoted ISIS affiliated videos to certain viewers, and that is how ISIS recruited and enlisted support.
NITSANA LEITNER, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY SUING GOOGLE: Instead of terminating these videos, instead of eliminating them instead of deleting them, they
promoted them.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): But Google says they aren't responsible given the broad protections of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.
Congress passed the law in 1996 to shield internet platforms from being sued for harmful content posted by third parties on their sites.
Google argues its algorithms recommending content are what make it possible to find the needles in humanity's largest haystack, warning that if Section
230 does not apply to how websites sort content, the internet would devolve into a disorganized mess and a litigation minefield.
There's no evidence the Paris attackers were specifically radicalized on YouTube. But Nohemi's parents still alleged YouTube aided and abetted ISIS
and should not be able to hide behind Section 230.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They should stop it they have the power to do it.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): This will be the first time the Supreme Court has considered the scope of Section 230 and the extent to which it protects
social media companies. The push to reform Section 230 is widespread.
Last month, President Biden penned an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal calling for modifications. And Republicans have repeatedly blasted Big Tech
for what they call alleged censorship of conservative ideas. The Gonzales family though, just wants justice for the death of their daughter at the
hands of ISIS link terrorist.
GONZALEZ: Nothing I saw going to give me back my daughter, but at least that as something good is going to be accomplished.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: And the Gonzales family will be in the courtroom today for this monumental case. But it isn't the only big case that will go before the
Supreme Court. Another challenge will be heard tomorrow, that will determine if social media companies like Twitter and Facebook can be held
liable under an anti-terrorism law. It's a case that separate from the Section 230 challenge.
But Julia, it really does have similarly potentially massive ramifications, since both of these cases could really change the way that internet and
social media companies operate. You know, if they become more compelled to heavily regulate speech, they'll have to regulate all that speech that
really runs rampant online. Julia?
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Yes. And in the case of the Gonzales family, even if the Supreme Court don't find in their favor, and they say that, look, the laws
do protect the tech companies argues that the laws are wrong and require changing. Jessica still --with us.
SCHNEIDER: They still might be changed by Congress.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, exactly. Yes.
SCHNEIDER: Just see what happens.
CHATTERLEY: We shall, thank you, great to have you on the show. Stay with CNN, we'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". A state of the art NASA instrument is sending crucial information back to Earth that could help in
the fight against global warming. In our new series transformers CNN Meteorologist Allison Chinchar meets a scientist working with NASA on the
project.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice over): In July 2022, this SpaceX rocket launched with a new NASA instrument called EMIT on board.
NATALIE MAHOWALD, PROFESSOR OF ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE/CORNELL UNIVERSITY: Well, EMIT is going to revolutionize what we can do. So it's just going to
provide such amazing new data to help us understand the surface and atmosphere.
CHINCHAR (voice over): Now, over 250 miles above the Earth attached to the International Space Station, its purpose is to shed light on an important
weather phenomenon, dust.
MAHOWALD: Desert dust or mineral aerosols is a mineral soil particle that suspended in the atmosphere. And so these come out mostly from desert
regions that are dry and un-vegetated with strong winds.
CHINCHAR (voice over): For over two decades, climate scientist Natalie Mahowald has been tracking dust across the globe and how it impacts climate
change.
MAHOWALD: I love looking at a globe and thinking about how dust is getting from one place to another.
CHINCHAR (voice over): She's been working with NASA on this new instrument to find out how different colors of dust in the atmosphere can heat or cool
the planet.
MAHOWALD: So different soils actually have really different colors. So the white ones reflect incoming solar radiation and the red ones and the dark
ones absorb it. And so one of the problems we have and understanding the impact of desert does is we don't know the composition very well.
CHINCHAR (voice over): Using a device called an imaging spectrometer EMIT scans the earth arid regions that detect different colored soils, creating
a mineral map.
MAHOWALD: Already EMIT has taken millions or billions of observations of what's going on in the arid regions in terms of the composition. And then
we can use that to put into our models to better understand what actually the impact of the desert dust is.
CHINCHAR (voice over): Dust and sandstorms have dramatically increased in recent years due to climate change, land degradation and drought according
to the UN. These storms are causing respiratory illnesses, damaging livestock, disrupting transport and even melting Arctic ice.
MAHOWALD: We've also watched dust plumes really just travel across oceans and be deposited in Greenland or even in the Alps.
CHINCHAR (voice over): EMIT can also detect another factor impacting climate change methane, a potent greenhouse gas, it's detected 50 super
emitters across the world, mostly coming from fossil fuel, landfill and agricultural facilities. NASA hopes this knowledge can help countries stem
the emissions and shine a spotlight on how our planet is changing.
MAHOWALD: So you can think of the EMIT project as really testing the waters and really showing what is possible.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And finally on "First Move" if you think a new iPhone is expensive, you will be right. But bear in mind one or some of the very
early ones could now be worth a whole lot more.
[09:55:00]
CHATTERLEY: A first generation iPhone from back in 2007 just like this one just sold at auction for more than $63,000. When it was new the phones two
megapixel camera was seen as cutting edge technology. Apple sold them for around $600 each back then. Just for context, I believe that this one was
given as a gift and it was still in the box.
So if you've got a lot of those cracked or broken ones, like I have, hard luck, it's not going to be a great return on investment like that one was.
That's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. You can search for
@jchatterleycnn. I still miss my Blackberry I'll be honest. "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
