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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Biden Meets with Leaders of "Bucharest Nine" in Warsaw; Putin: International Relations Today are Complex; The Cost of War: Ukraine Struggles to Balance the Books; Marchenko: Blacklisting Russia can help us win the war; Palestinian Officials: 10 Dead in Israeli Military Operation; U.S. Supreme Court Hearing Arguments in Internet Regulation Case. Aired 9- 10a ET
Aired February 22, 2023 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
ANDRZEJ DUDA, PRESIDENT OF POLAND: Thank you very much Mr. President and now I pass the floor to the NATO Secretary General Mr. Jens Stoltenberg,
please.
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Andrzej, its pleasure to be back in Warsaw to meet with all the benign Heads of State and Government and
also with the President Biden. Andrzej Duda, I would like to say to you that I'm so pleased and so impressed by the outstanding leadership, you
show and your visit to Kyiv sent a clear message or steadfast support to Ukraine, and America's iron tide, ironclad commitment to the security of
Europe.
Let me also thank you for hosting the next NATO summit after winners in the United States. One year since the launch of Russia's invasion, President
Putin is not preparing for peace. On the contrary, he is preparing for more war. So we must sustain and step up our support for Ukraine.
We must give Ukraine what they need to prevail. We don't know when the war will end. But when it does, we need to ensure that history does not repeat
itself. We have seen the - pattern of aggression over many years. Georgia in 2008, Crimea and Donbas in 2014, and then the full fledge invasion of
Ukraine last year.
We cannot allow Russia to continue to chip away at European security. We must break the cycle of Russian aggression. NATO allies have never been
more united. We will protect every inch of allied territory based on Article Five commitment to defend each other one for all and all for one.
Thank you so much.
DUDA: Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary General. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the part of the summit open for media. So I kindly ask the
media to leave the room, please.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: I'm Julia Chatterley in New York and you've been watching the beginning of the Bucharest nine meeting in
Warsaw there with President Biden and the NATO Secretary General. He's of course spent the last several days with allies and a show of support for
Ukraine and reiterated.
I think that message there you heard for the NATO Secretary General impressed by the leadership that President Biden showed in actually being
in Ukraine. In the past week, he reiterated the message that he's already given a number of times over recent weeks, which is that Putin isn't
preparing for peace.
He's preparing for more war and that's why Ukraine must be supported. It was a message echoed by President Biden too that the support is absolute
from both NATO and the United States. And this is about shared values to the freedom of democracy in Ukraine and around the world too.
And you heard from the President of Romania and of the Slovak Republic there too echoing that this is about security, avoiding gray zones, in
particular in defense. And looking ahead towards that meeting in NATO later this year in July, Clare Sebastian joins us now who is also I know
listening into that meeting.
And its, part of a broader discussion between these key nine nations that are watching what's taking place within their region they know the history
of how Russia has behaved in the past. And I think the message here today from them to the United States is more the same, more supports required
because there's palpable fear of what could come if that's not support is not forthcoming and continuing?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia, I think it was very clear that the presence alone of President Biden at that meeting really sort of
bolstered the position of these nine countries, which of course, are on NATO's Eastern Flank the closest ones to Russia. What is interesting, if
you look at these countries is despite their proximity to Russia.
They have been very much at the forefront in this conflict of providing support to Ukraine. And Estonia, for example, has committed more than 1
percent, or the equivalent of more than 1 percent of its GDP, in terms of military aid in comparative terms far outpacing what the U.S., for example,
has committed.
They have also been at the forefront of the economic pain that this war has wrought. On Europe, inflation rates in the Baltics, for example, have in
some cases and continue to in some cases exceed 20 percent. Despite that, they have shown their resolve, perhaps given their proximity to try to keep
going in their support to deter, as they said in these comments just now future aggression from Russia.
And that is critical, because I think you saw before this conflict, Russia issued a number of demands to NATO, asking them to prevent any future
eastward expansion to prevent Ukraine from ever joining NATO. What we see here is repudiation again of those demands an sign that Russia's goals in
this conflict are not coming to pass, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: No and your point about the spending, I think it's critically important too. We spoke to the President of Lithuania earlier this week. Of
course, he's going to host those NATO meetings later on this year.
[09:05:00]
CHATTERLEY: And he said he wants that 2 percent of GDP spending promises or target for these NATO nations to be considered a floor not a ceiling in
this case. So we're certainly pushing for higher defense budgets in particular as far as NATO is concerned as well.
But the other thing as well is that many of these nations have also provided support to displaced Ukrainians, too. So it's actually not just
about support and aid for Ukraine itself. It's about providing support to those Ukrainians that have had to flee to nations around like many of the
leaders know very well here.
SEBASTIAN: Yes, I think Poland in particular, which, of course, has hosted President Biden and continues to host these meetings has been at the
forefront of that President Biden witness that himself when he went to Poland, in March of last year. That, as you say, strains budgets on top of
the military aid and humanitarian aid that countries are providing to Ukraine.
And on that military aid, Julia, we are as well at a point where we're seeing the level of military equipment, ammunition and all of that this
conflict is burning through really up the ante when it comes to these countries and what they can provide.
This is in the words of the NATO Secretary General and now a battle of logistics. It's not just about political will to provide it; they have to
increase production to be able to provide it. So these are serious economic questions, as well as political questions they're facing.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, couldn't agree more. Clare Sebastian, thank you so much for your report there. Now moments ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin
appeared at a concert in Moscow. Take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA: I have just been meeting the top military leadership and I heard from them that right now there is a battle
going on our historic frontiers for our people. And it this battle is waged by the same courageous soldiers as those standing next to us here they are
fighting heroically, courageously, bravely, we are proud of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Meanwhile, Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev says Russia will "disappear" if it stops what Moscow calls this special military
operation. Fred Pleitgen joins us now from Moscow. Fred, we were expecting to hear more of the same I think from President Putin and we certainly did.
And clearly the audience there in the stages for the domestic audience fascinating comments, and I believe that was Telegram, a social media
channel that the Former President Medvedev made those comments about the idea of Russia disappearing. Should this operational war, let's call it
that ends?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes and that's something that we heard from Vladimir Putin yesterday in his speech as
well. I think that's sort of the message that's being put out there right now by the Kremlin, also by a lot of other people who are in power in
Russia and also political commentators.
In fact, I spoke to a political commentator, a pretty high level one, just a couple of days ago. And he also said that Russians or at least the
Russian leadership really views this as something of a battle for survival of Russia. Obviously, one of the things that Vladimir Putin said yesterday,
in his major speeches that he felt that it was the West that was infringing on Russia and essentially wanted the disintegration of Russia.
And late last night after Vladimir Putin's initial speech, I actually got a message from the Kremlin Spokesman from Dimitri Peskov commenting on
President Biden's speech, of course, in Warsaw, Poland, also last night, and he said that he believes that the U.S. has secret agenda is the
disintegration of Russia as well and it's simply something that's not being spoken out loud.
So it's certainly a message that's being put out there on various levels here in this country. And once again, also, Vladimir Putin, as we see on
our screens, right now, they're in Luzhniki Stadium in Central Moscow, obviously trying to rally that crowd, but not having much trouble rallying
that crowd because as you can see, they did that those patriotic symbols out as well.
But it's definitely seen as something that's very important to the Russian Leader and in general to the Russian leadership. I was actually down there
before that event took place to sort of check out what's going on. And there were a lot of people were coming towards that stadium, a lot of them
obviously, with pro-Russian with patriotic memorabilia on them.
So you can really see how important it is to the Russian leadership to portray that message. Of course, all of this coming a day after Vladimir
Putin's address to the Federal Assembly, which is the key speech that Vladimir Putin holds every year and then also coming on the eve of
defenders of the Fatherland Day here in Russia.
It's obviously a very important event here as well. And this concert that we're seeing that sort of rallying cry that is going on there in that
stadium is actually technically also part of the events around defenders of the Fatherland Day but as we can see now obviously, we've got Russia called
its special military operation going on in Ukraine. It certainly has taken on a whole different meaning and has been elevated to a whole another
level, Julia.
[09:10:00]
CHATTERLEY: Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much for that. All right, high profile meetings also taking place in Moscow too Russian President Vladimir
Putin welcoming China's top Diplomat Wang Yi in the Kremlin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PUTIN: International relations today are complex they have not improved after the collapse of the bipolar system. On the contrary, they have become
tenser. And in this regard cooperation between Russia and the Chinese People's Republic, on the international arena is very important for the
stabilization of international situations as we have said many times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And Marc Stewart joins us now with more. Marc how it looks at the pictures, the photo opportunities in this case? And when you look at
Wang Yi, with the Foreign Minister of Russia, it looked very genial, I think that's what's the best word I can use in this case and when you
describe the relationship as solid as a rock.
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Solid as a rock and mature. I mean, you know, Julia, it's not as if Russia and China haven't had a relationship
before. We're very well aware of the economic ties between the two nations, especially during the Ukraine war. We have seen China be a top customer of
Russian oil and gas and coal.
And we've seen Russia buy Chinese phones and cars because many Western companies have been basically excluded from the marketplace. But now we are
seeing this very determined effort to create at least at the World Senate Investors that there is a diplomatic relationship between these two
nations, almost to the extent as we have seen with NATO and the EU.
As you mentioned, Wang Yi used this phrase solid as a rock. And he also in the face to face meeting today with Vladimir Putin talks about the fact
that this alliance is not necessarily to exclude the world, but it's to show that these two nations can work together. Take a listen to Wang Yi
earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANG YI, CHINESE SENIOR DIPLOMAT: We want to emphasize here that the comprehensive strategic partnership between China and Russia never target
to third countries and hence, it won't be affected by any interferences or instigation from a third country. We certainly won't bow --.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: Julia, you brought up the optics of all of this. The photo op, if you will, with Vladimir Putin, and Wang Yi. That is powerful within itself
but we could perhaps see even a bigger moment because it seems that the pathway is cleared out for a face to face meeting with Vladimir Putin and
Xi Jinping, perhaps as early as the spring. We'll have to see, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Absolutely and to your point as well, this optics matter, the messaging matters. Marc Stewart, thank you for that. OK, let's head to
South Korea now, where potential nuclear capable missile launches are on the minds of leaders.
North Korea is now believed to be capable of sending its ICBMs farther than ever before that, according to South Korean Military Intelligence. And
Paula Hancocks joins us now from Seoul. Paula and I believe you've been speaking to South Korea's Foreign Minister to get their take on these
concerns.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, yes, so I spoke to Park Jin, the Foreign Minister here in South Korea earlier today and asked him
about what North Korea has been doing in just the last few weeks? And ICBM launch a military parade threatening to turn the Pacific Ocean into a
firing range.
And Minister Park said that North Korea is clearly on the wrong path that South Korea is never going to accept a nuclear North Korea, also pointing
out that the threats that they have given that they are going to develop and deploy tactical nuclear weapons presents a very clear and present
danger to South Korea. So I asked him specifically about Kim Jong-Un's nuclear ambitions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARK JIN, SOUTH KOREAN FOREIGN MINISTER: He may not voluntarily renounce nuclear weapons. But the important thing is that we have to create an
environment where North Korea has no choice but to come back to the negotiation table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: Now there's also a growing voice here in South Korea to have its own nuclear weapons program, but that was dismissed by the Foreign
Minister. He said that it is neither reliable nor viable; saying that U.S. extended deterrence is really the only way that they can deal with North
Korea saying that Seoul is currently in discussions with Washington into how to strengthen that extended deterrence talking about this week.
[09:15:00]
HANCOCKS: For example, there is a nuclear tabletop drill that is happening between the U.S. and South Korean troops in the Pentagon saying more
collaboration like that are what would strengthen that deterrence now. He also spoke about Ukraine about the war in Ukraine, saying that he believes
Pyongyang is taking a lesson from that war, saying that it is in bolding them to act this way.
And they are taking advantage of the fact that the world's attention is elsewhere. And then finally, he also spoke about Taiwan and China's desire
to take control of the islands also not ruling out the possibility of using force, and he made a direct connection with Taiwan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIN: We are opposed to unilateral change of status quo by force. So in that sense, we will make sure that if something happens on the Taiwan Strait, we
have to maintain peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula, because you don't have a direct impact on our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: Now, the main message when it did come to North Korea was that there was an intention to talk if North Korea was willing, they wanted to
bring them back to the negotiating table in tandem with the United States as well using deterrence to try and do so. But when I did ask him whether
or not there were any back channels that were open at the moment, whether there were any talks at all, he said that there were not, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: The best way to bring leaders like this to the negotiating table. And that's the key tie between all the stories I think we've covered
on the show so far. Paula Hancocks, thank you so much for that. OK, straight ahead, counting the economic cost of the war in Ukraine. The
nation's Finance Minister joins us next, as he negotiates further outside help. We'll be right back, stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", after one year of war the economic cost to Ukraine continues to mount. Since the Russian invasion
began, Ukraine's economy has seen a 30 percent decline. Average inflation last year was around 28 percent. The unemployment rate hit 30 percent.
And as bad as all that sounds, there were though also important signs of economic resilience. According to the Finance Ministry 90 percent, that's
90 businesses are still functioning. And of course the financial system remains fully operational with government obligations like wages and
pensions fully met.
[09:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Yet Ukraine remains reliant on outside help. Even with major support from the EU and the United States this year. The government may
still need around $10 billion more to meet its financial needs. And the hope is that the International Monetary Fund will also step in to provide
further support.
Sergii Marchenko is Ukraine's Finance Minister, and he joins us now. Finance Minister, thank you so much for joining us. We certainly appreciate
your time. This clearly much to discuss, I do want to start if you don't mind with the International Monetary Fund, you tweeted a picture of you
meeting with the Managing Director who we know very well on this show. Can I ask how those talks are going and what information you can give us about
timing?
SERGII MARCHENKO, UKRAINE FINANCE MINISTER: Thank you very much for inviting me to be with you. Yes, this week, we were happy to meet the
Managing Director in Ukraine in Kyiv. We had very productive discussions with her and her team. And previously in last week, we were in Warsaw.
We had mission in Warsaw and we discussed how we execute our Monetary Board program, which can be prerequisite, which can pave the way for future
possible future utility program. So now we see that our relationship is quite stable. And meal we are moving in a direction of possible full-
fledged program with IMF.
CHATTERLEY: I mean the Managing Director of the IMF said this weekend, they complimented you on maintaining a level of stability, I think in the
financial sector in particular against all odds. Do you have a sense of what conditions might be attached to an IMF program and how quickly they
can give you money? Because you need more money this year are you expecting to need more money?
MARCHENKO: Yes, still I need the amount of around 10 billion U.S. dollars to cover our budget needs for this year, as well as we need to start
process of reconstruction of our economy. And you mentioned conditions; we are ready to fulfill all necessary requirements and conditions to be able
to move on with program.
First of all, our conditions can include necessary measures to stabilize our macro-economic situation. Create necessary environment for fiscal
stability, for monetary stability, and - again, start discussing measures which can contain anti-corruption measures, as well as measurement to
increase our government capacity to execute. As well as a measurement but the most important conditionality is how, by the structure and how better
prepare us for macro-economic stability.
CHATTERLEY: Of course, and very quickly, because you mentioned a number of things there and you're saying I think will fulfill all obligations. How
soon are we talking days for this program to be agreed weeks?
MARCHENKO: We agreed that we will start this castle new program --. So I believe that both of directors of IMF can support management and staff, we
can start this negotiation rather sooner than later.
CHATTERLEY: And if there is still a gap, as we've described it your estimate for budget deficits $38 billion this year, as we've mentioned, a
huge chunk of that coming from financial support from the EU and from the United States. Is the other option, more war bonds because I know you are
issuing debt on a weekly basis? It's just incredibly expensive.
MARCHENKO: Yes, without a doubt is one of the most important sources to cover our military expenses, because we can cover our military expenses
only so our revenues raised by taxation or through the wartime bonds. We managed to attract 6 billion U.S. dollars last year through bonds this
year.
We also did our best and try to convince markets towards the - for government of Ukraine and of course its internal market. Of course, the
price is high due to inflation due to the high level of basic rate of National Bank of Ukraine.
[09:25:00]
MARCHENKO: But we will try to attract it and we try to get our possible sources. We're - took our military expenses.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, I was looking at it sort of out to one-year debt around 18 percent. I believe the interest rate just to give my viewers an
understanding of why getting international support is so important for you because it's so expensive to issue war bonds. I think what, and I know,
it's not your department, but in addition to the budget deficit, there's an estimate from the government of $17 billion this year just for
infrastructure repairs.
Can you give us an estimate of what we're looking at now? I mean, the last time you and I spoke, I think it was we were talking $500 billion. Some
estimates, were saying a trillion dollars to ultimately repair what's been damaged in this war. Finance Minister, it's unimaginable the scale of this.
MARCHENKO: Yes, the scale of damages, which were done by Russia aggression, is very huge. And now we expected the World Bank rapid damage and needs
assessment report, which can assess on the first of January of 2023 and there is some damages and calculations they necessary to provide for us and
for our partners, how much does it cost for Ukraine?
As it for what our damages what our, let's say, amount of money to trade for payments for first initial repayments, or later payments. And you
mentioned 17 billion; it's the amount of money, which is necessary to cover our existing needs for this year. It's also depends on our capacity to
absorb this money.
That's why this amount is below the level of damages. So we really understand how much necessary for us, but 17 billion is that amount is so
crucial to get our call around for 2023.
CHATTERLEY: And it's a moving target. Finance Minister, one of the other things that I know is very important to you. You're demanding that Russia
be blacklisted by the Financial Action Task Force, FATF it's known as, and it's to, I know in your mind, prevent Russia from circumventing the
sanctions that are already in place?
How confident are you that the 38 nations I believe, that make up this body are willing to blacklist Russia? There's only three other countries I
believe.
MARCHENKO: We try to do all necessary steps to prevent Russia use any possible ways to finance war combined. So that's why for us, what leads to
Russia are one of the measures which can help us to win this war as soon as later. And we prepared the list of arguments for our partners for countries
which support Ukraine, why Russia should be blacklisted?
And we believe that this argument can be used as prerequisite arguments for blacklisting Russia because they really believe that it helps us to prevent
further war campaign and to build the necessary environment for FATF, - operational crane armed forces and for being of Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: We'll continue to follow that and see what outcome comes. And Finance Minister Marchenko the last time you and I spoke you were living at
the Finance Ministry. You were living apart from your family from your wife and children.
I believe now you've moved back home, which is a good thing but just one year after this war just your observations of what life's like today and
what it meant that President Biden came to Kyiv this week to mark the anniversary?
MARCHENKO: Good question because you know, to understand that we are living in a very different environment. We can only realize when we can travel or
visit business trips for other countries.
[09:30:00]
MARCHENKO: For example, last week, I was in Warsaw it takes me 24 hours to get accustomed for peaceful environment to understand that lighting in the
streets is sounds so natural, because we are living in and we do not understand how damaging for our whole lives for our interest as this war.
That's why for us the better and faster winning campaign, the better because it's help our children to live in a peaceful country to help
prosperity to help future. So we try to do our best we try to use every particular moment.
Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to take attention for Ukraine to get us on rather on focus, to help us to take necessary finances
to take necessary military equipment to keep running contrary to help us to win this war.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Finance Minister, you said something recently, which caught my attention. And you said the nations lost more than then can be
calculated in money, despite the conversation about money that we've just had, and your children are losing years. You've lost years and it's going
to take years to recover from this.
And I think we all need to be aware of that. I thank you for your time, sir. Thank you. And hopefully we'll speak again soon. And fingers crossed
to talk about an IMF deal as well. Ukraine's Finance Minister there, great to chat to you sir, thank you! Stay with "First Move" more to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! At least 10 people have died following an Israeli military operation in the West Bank according to
Palestinian officials. They said two Islamic Jihad commanders were among those killed and more than hundred people were injured.
[09:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: Israeli authorities say they were targeting suspects who were "Planning attacks in the immediate future". Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem for
us. Hadas, I guess that accounts for the fact that this took place in daylight, which is rare? What more can you tell us?
HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, normally, when the Israeli military carries out these raids, which have become more common in the past
year or so, they do so in the dark of night, or at dawn hours, not in the middle of the day. So that goes to show you that it's unusual, goes to show
you perhaps why the Israeli military says that they went after these people with intelligence showing that there was some sort of immediate attack.
We're also hearing from them that they believe one of those that they killed was responsible for the shooting death of an Israeli soldier a few
months ago. And what we're learning from some of the military groups that some of their members and commanders were among those killed, but just the
numbers, the sheer scale of the numbers of killed and injured is very unusual and it's just huge.
I mean, at least 10 killed, we know of something like hundred injured by the Palestinian Ministry of Health says live ammunition. So we have to keep
in mind that the death count may go up. This may end up being one of if not the deadliest days in the West Bank, definitely potentially this year, if
not yet even further years.
And what's even already been a very deadly and violent year so far. We know of, as I said, at least 10 injured and when you look at sort of the
breakdown, people are asking, you know are the civilians caught up in this as well.
So far, we do know that some militant groups have claimed some of those killed as their members, but we're looking at some of the ages. And there
are some people in their 60s and 70s, killed as well as a 16 year old boy, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health.
We're still working out exactly the details of the situation. We're still getting briefed by the Israeli military. But it's been a very violent year
already so far here. It's only February, the Palestinian Ministry of Health saying something like 61 Palestinians have been killed. Meanwhile, 11
Israelis have been killed the cycle of violence just seemingly continuing.
Now, what's also important to note about today is that the Islamic Jihad said that two of their commanders were killed and the Islamic Jihad in
Gaza, you have to keep in mind that they do have a foothold in Gaza, and that we may very well get a response from Gaza tonight, perhaps in the form
of rockets.
And keep in mind; it was just in August that there was that brief sort of two, three day de-escalation, rockets fired and the Israeli military
responding with airstrikes. And so there's a very good chance that there may be that sort of escalation, potentially in the next couple of hours
where Islamic Jihad militants may fire rockets we're hearing from the armed factions in Gaza.
They said essentially, that their patience is running out. So we may see that sort of escalation coming. As we've been noting for so many days now,
there have been so many violent incidences between Israelis and Palestinians, the ground here has been very right for some time for some
sort of escalation.
And then just take a look at the calendar and look what's coming. Ramadan and Passover are once again, overlapping, that will likely bring that
tension and potentially even more escalation here to Jerusalem to the holy sites, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I know, you'll stay across any further developments and bring them to us. Hadas Gold, thank you so much for that report! OK, in the
meantime, let me give you a quick look at what we're seeing across the U.S. stock markets.
Wall Street is currently higher the NASDAQ outperforming there stocks trying to bounce after Tuesday's painful 2 percent slump across the board.
Investors nervous I think as U.S. bond yields rise due to fears of more aggressive central bank action and of course, yesterday a disappointing
outlook from retailers Walmart and Home Depot weighing on broader sentiment too.
Now we discussed this yesterday on the show and to the Supreme Court showdown, which could upend the world of social media as we know it. In two
separate cases the families of two terror attack victims claimed that social media companies have helped terror groups in violation of U.S. law
and should be held responsible.
Yesterday on the program, we heard from the family of Nomi Gonzalez, who was killed in an ISIS attack on Paris in 2015. The justices will hear
arguments in the second day of their case against Google. And a decision could impact big tech companies that are currently using laws like Section
230 to shield themselves from user lawsuits.
Our Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider joins us now. Jessica, it's complicated. And there are two cases. There's the Google case and there's
the Twitter case, I think you and I accurately predicted yesterday that the U.S. Supreme Court was going to be challenged with this. And I think they
sort of honestly admitted that they were pretty clueless yesterday not interpreting the law, but just understanding I think the implications of
any change?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Julia. I mean, they were very cognizant that their ruling could really upend the
way the internet is run. And because of that the Supreme Court they're waiting into these two big cases with caution because they could radically
change everything about social media and the internet.
[09:40:00]
SCHNEIDER: So they heard that case yesterday about whether YouTube could be held responsible for the death of that 23-year-old American student in
Paris in 2015, during the ISIS terrorist attacks all across the city.
And they say that this family says that YouTube not only allowed ISIS videos to be posted on their site, but also that YouTube recommended those
videos to certain viewers. And the family says it's because of that specific action of recommending videos.
They say that should wipe away any protections that social media currently has. The court though, they seemed very hesitant to step in here and make
changes to the way the internet works. They said they're really not the experts. And maybe Congress should really be the ones making any changes.
Here's Justice Elena Kagan saying just that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELENA KAGAN, U.S. SUPREME COURT: Every other industry has to internalize the costs of his conduct. Why is it that the tech industry gets a pass? A
little bit unclear. On the other hand, I mean, we're a court. We really don't know about these things. You know, these are not like the nine
greatest experts on the internet. Isn't that something for Congress to do? Not the court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: And that was really the sentiment throughout this almost three hours of arguments. The justices really wrestling with the implications any
of their decisions might have. And the justices also warned that if they wiped away protections for social media companies like under Section 230 it
would create possibly this wave of lawsuits and would really create chaos online.
So today, there's another related case, it takes a broader look at the responsibility of big tech. This is a case that is also being brought by
families of terror victims. They're saying more broadly, that social media companies assisted ISIS by allowing terrorist groups members to post their
videos and other content online.
And they're saying, Julia, that that particularly violates the federal Anti-Terrorism Act right here in the U.S. So it's really taking a more
broad argument, whereas yesterday was asking to kind of chip away at the protections of Section 230. This is saying more bluntly, that overall, tech
companies should be responsible for any content posted that promotes terrorism, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And it raises awareness, because justices only have to have expertise in the law Congress, back to you and you have to act.
Jessica, we'll see you in five to 10 years, unfortunately. Thank you so much for that. OK.
And that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. Search for @jchatterleycnn.
"Marketplace Europe" is up next, and I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:00]
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDNT: I'm Anna Stewart. This month prevailing through the storm, Europe's wind power sector has been buffeted by
problems. Now the continent is preparing its fight back. And all eyes on Esports will go behind the scenes at the tournament's packing out arenas.
That's all ahead on 'Marketplace Europe'.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART (voice over): And over the English countryside wind turbines like these are churning out electricity, each one a monument to renewable powers
potential. But right now, it's economic headwinds that are looming large. Green Energy is a huge priority across Europe right now. And yet for
Europe's wind power sector, the challenges and the losses are mounting. Analysts say the problems have been years in the making.
SEAN MCLOUGHLIN, EMEA HEAD OF INDUSTRIALS RESEARCH, HSBC GLOBAL RESEARCH: We had a collapse in turbine pricing, pricing fell over 20 percent in a
very short amount of time. So the whole mechanism if you like of doing business, in the wind industry changed quite abruptly. Things were made
worse by the disruption that was caused by COVID logistics problems. This is an industry that has a much extended global supply chain. And of course
then you had material price volatility.
STEWART (voice over): For companies like EDF, the French energy giant that runs this wind farm in the East of England, there's a risk of progress
getting stuck at a crucial time.
MATTHIEU HUE, CEO EDF RENEWABLE UK & IRELAND: I think we're at genuine risk of saying the allotment or deployment of renewable slowing down, which is
exactly the contrary of what we need. We did an acceleration was the need for investment is absolutely massive.
What we have seen over the last 10 years is a technology evolving, but as you said, we had some disruption and we need to make sure that people
understand that the government global these challenges are understood because unless they can be overcome, the investment will go elsewhere.
STEWART (voice over): Europe is being squeezed from all sides. From the East, cheaper turbines from China are entering the market. While to the
West, the U.S. Inflation Reduction Act is tempting companies with big subsidies for those who build green tech in the United States.
Now the European Union has been spurred into action. In February it announced a Green Deal Industrial Plan, offering billions of dollars in
funding the net zero tech. EDF's, Head of Renewable in the UK says now is the time for policymakers to stay engaged.
HUE: I think we need to work collaboratively with policymakers at regional level at national level. We need to make sure that the policies that is in
place support the growth, this acceleration of the growth at a time that is absolutely critical to combat climate change.
STEWART (voice over): Other players in the sector are concerned about Europe's role as a market leader. The Danish turbine company investors lost
more than one and a half billion dollars last year. Its Chief Executive says the industry can't afford to lose momentum.
HENRIK ANDERSEN, CEO VESTAS: I think if we don't get visibility, and if we don't get clear framework to work on the then there is a risk that more of
the capacity moves outside Europe. And in the end that's not in Europe's interest.
Because the day Europe then returned to making a priority to renewable energy, then we have to rebuild the capacity in Europe again. I think most
Europeans right now have seen that the independence of energy supply is not insignificant important if we all have to rely of a - take of Russia on gas
into Europe.
I don't think any of us wants to do that. This is the beginning of one of the largest transformations the world has done. So I see the growth coming
and if you get it right this time, then of course there is much more growth to come in Europe.
STEWART (voice over): That's does expect the challenges to continue in 2023. But Henrik Andersen thinks the company and the sector may have seen
the worst of it.
ANDERSEN: The wind industry works with long backlogs. And for that reason, when you have things you really can't protect, and you can't prepare
yourself for cost wise, then you will see that there is a negative effect.
[09:50:00]
ANDERSEN: So we're working through that. And I think if I have too little bit of the optimistic point, I think probably the low point was in 22. And
that also means we will have pilots in our district starts working better coming forward.
STEWART (voice over): One startup in Germany is testing a system that could change how we think about wind farms. Kitekraft makes airborne wind
turbines carried by drones and kites. Based in Munich, it hopes to ship its turbines starting next year.
MAX ISENSEE, CO-FOUNDER & CO-CEO, KITEKRAFT: The whole system is tethered to ground station, and then we use our onboard rotors to start the system,
bring it in the air extend the tether we start into a figure eight flight, that's what we call it.
And then we can produce energy with those small turbines that we have on board. Our systems are so much smaller are flying higher and you only
actually see them when they produce energy, right? If we're not producing energy, we just land the system and then it's basically invisible.
STEWART (voice over): Kitekraft has already won support from groups like Y Combinatory, and hopes that a more nimble approach can make wind power
easier to adopt.
ISENSEE: If we actually achieve what we set out with our system, so really building a wind turbine that uses 90 to 95 percent less of the material for
roughly half the cost. Then in the end, we're just building the better wind turbine, that's our goal. That's what we want to do. And with that just
make much more wind energy available to the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART (voice over): The rise of Esports is no secret tournament prize money can be worth millions of dollars. And legions of gamers are watching
whether on streaming sites like YouTube or Twitch or in person at major arenas. It's not just the gaming that fans are interested in it's the place
too.
The Spanish Gamer known as - is best known for playing games like Mine Craft and League of Legends. When he hosted a real life boxing event for
Esports influences in June it not only packed out the arena, it broke the streaming record on Twitch attracting more than 3 million viewers.
Don't hold your breath waiting for Esports to go mainstream for these fans in Manchester, England. That moment is already here. And if you don't
believe me just ask some of their favorite players.
MICHAELA, "MIMI" INTRUP: There's nothing like this you know.
STEWART (voice over): YouTube Victoria warehouse is usually home to concepts from acts like Lord is the Prodigy. Today fans are rushing for
seats to watch Red Bull home ground, a tournament for teams playing VALORANT a multiplayer first person shooter game. Like many other ESPORTS
events, it is a sellout. And for the Danish Gamer Mimi who's won multiple titles. It's the fans who make the difference.
MICHAELA: It's like when you sit there on the stage and then you wait around and you just see people like rise and are like cheering really hard
you feel it. You feel the energy.
STEWART (voice over): That energy is what big name sponsors are hoping to channel. Red Bull, which partners with several Esports teams is hosting
this tournament pushing up $100,000 in prize money and their horizons expand far beyond this arena.
Organizers say there were more than 3 million views for this tournament on services like Twitch and YouTube, where viewers can see teams of analyst's
instant replays, and every camera angle you can think off. Yinsu Collins is the host of all this coverage and says VALORANT has grown at a blistering
place.
[09:55:00]
YINSU COLLINS, ESPORTS BROADCASTER: A few years ago when a game comes out like this it takes a while for it to snowball for it to get bigger but for
this one, it took almost, you know, a year, less than a year for it to get really, really big.
So I think that effect of how things are changing is be really mind blowing to see. We have a broadcast team, we have a production team, all of the pro
players in my mind you can kind of consider them as athletes and even from their perspective they have coaching staff, analysts it is a really,
really, really big industry right now.
STEWART (voice over): It's a polished product designed to draw in new and experienced viewers alike even if the crowd numbers aren't yet on a par
with a Premier League. The bands here say the experience is just as good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crowd is like super into it. Like sometimes you go to a football game it's like dead quiet for periods until like something
happens. But here action so fast crowd is always super cool.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seeing the stage like that legit and it's actually this big and it's this crazy that I mean that it is kind of exceeded my
expectations. I'll be totally honest.
STEWART (voice over): The tournament itself plays out over three days eventually whittling down to just two teams. "Those hundred Thieves", an
American team that partners with companies like Heineken, Lexus, and AT&T and Cloud9 you partners with Red Bull, BMW and Puma. Zellsis, this is one
of the team's newest additions. He says it's the glory and not the money that keeps them focused.
JORDAN "ZELLSIS" MONITEMURRO: I think the growth has been the massive thing. It's getting bigger and bigger. Each game is getting bigger and
bigger and I just want to see Esports keep growing. My main goal is champs.
I want to win champs at some point in my career. Creating a legacy would be nice to create a dynasty would be nice winning everything you know, getting
our name cemented in the scene and stuff like that for me it would be like, would it be good?
STEWART (voice over): It's a noble ambition for Zellsis though ultimately tonight isn't going to be his night, or Cloud9's. The Grand Final is a
largely one sided affair with "Hundred Thieves" taking the win, as well as $50,000.
Like many tech sectors, there are questions about whether Esports can keep the good times rolling, especially when it comes to funding. But Yinsu
believes the sport still has room to grow on its own terms.
COLLINS: I think it's only changing for the better. I think more money more investment is going to help us in grow more. It is going to educate people
more and it's going to give ultimately give people more opportunities.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART: That's all for this month's episode of "Marketplace Europe". You can see more from us at cnn.com/mpe for now we'll see you next time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
