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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Ukraine Marks One Year Since Russian Invasion; What's Next for Putin's "Special Military Operation"; Bremmer: Chinese Involvement will Complicate Things for West; Former Ukrainian President Lays Out Plan to Cripple Russian Economy; One Year On: Teacher who Fled War Returns to Ukraine; Soon: Zelenskyy to Speak on First Anniversary of Invasion. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired February 24, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: Hello, I'm Julia Chatterley, welcome to our coverage of the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of

Ukraine. It's difficult to describe the loss suffered over the last 12 months. The human toll we're unable to verify, but estimates suggest

hundreds of thousands of people have lost their lives on both sides.

The United Nations says over 8 million refugees have fled the country with very few returning. And among those remaining the World Bank sees 60

percent now live on the poverty line. And worldwide there has been disruption to food supplies, energy security and punishing levels of

inflation, including a nation's least able to bear it.

This is the cost of Russia's war. This hour will cover the virtual G7 Meeting underway at this moment where Ukrainian President Volodymyr

Zelenskyy will speak. We're also live in Kharkiv which is suffered heavy shelling this week, disabling heating supplies.

And will unpack China's 12-point proposal to de-escalate the conflict, which has been met with skepticism across the West. And earlier today,

President Zelenskyy sent a rallying call to his troops, saying the future lies in their hands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: It is you who will decide whether we are all going to exist, whether Ukraine is going to exist. Every

day, every hour it is you Ukrainian soldiers, which will decide it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: The young soldiers you saw there. Senior International Correspondent, Sam Kiley joins us now from Kharkiv. Sam, good to have you

with us! This time last year, I think there were fears that Kyiv would fall within days that Russia would swiftly dominate and yet one year on Ukraine

still fighting and the G7 for the most part standing together.

SAM KILEY, CN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's been an extraordinary journey for above all, for the Ukrainians. It's been a fairly

slow intellectual journey from the Ukrainian perspective in the West in terms of the provision of lethal aid to allow them to prosecute the war, to

defeat the Russian invaders.

But if we go back to and I was standing here a year ago, just as the Russians were assaulting we're only 25 miles from the Russian border. The

Russians got very close into town they were shelling the city there were definitely explosions all over the city, Civilians were starting to die.

And then there was this sudden turnaround when, effectively the Ukrainian army in tiny numbers of Ukrainian special forces and reconnaissance

soldiers with experience from 2014 armed with and laws, anti-tank weapons and javelins, were able to stop quite literally in their tracks invading

forces over the next few weeks here in Kharkiv and also in the capital Kyiv.

Further over in this province, though, they were unable to stop an onslaught that took a lot longer to turn around. And now of course, we've

got this very vicious, grinding war that's going on, particularly in the east of the country with very high casualties indeed, on both sides, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: And as you say, the war continues. I believe this is month 8 out of 12 for you personally reporting on this story too. The situation

remains bleak for those fighting. It's also bleak for those fighting to save lives, Sam.

KILEY: It is a very, very grim processes this war. It is a Second World War type war massive slugfest involving artillery, aircraft, helicopter

gunships, rocket, multiple rocket launching systems. And sometimes when all of the descriptions of this the human cost gets forgotten. This is what it

looks like at the sharp ends.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KILEY (voice over): Almost walking, this wounded Ukrainian soldier has an obvious injury. Arriving at a casualty evacuation point for the battle of

Bakhmut, American medics look for hidden trauma.

CHRIS WRIGHT, VOLUNTEER MEDIC AT ROAD TO RELIEF: So I'm going to roll them and I'm going to check his back, 1, 2, and 3 and nearly as when you get a

chance, give his legs a feel for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, good.

WRIGHT: We get back out here as well. It looks minor. You want to go ahead and drop someone dance for him.

KILEY (voice over): Chris is from Houston, Texas. He's three kilometers less than two miles from Russian troops. And he's only 22. Last year he

took time out from his job to volunteer for road to relief. The charity relies on donations to fund and equip frontline ambulances and these teams

are unpaid.

[09:05:00]

ADAM MEYSING, AMBULANCE DRIVER: There's a credit cards in my mom and a little bit of prior savings. So as long as you have enough money to scrape

by and just buy like the basic goods things tend to be OK

KILEY (voice over): Hospital and medical staff are regularly targeted by Russia. This location is hidden in trees near Ukrainian artillery. That's

firing overhead on Russians just up the road.

WRIGHT: So it's just yes, we need more medics, more trucks is just the amount of injured is super high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he have any allergies?

KILEY (on camera): Chris is saying privately that one of the reasons there is such a need for foreign volunteers to work as medics is that so many of

the Ukrainians have been killed.

KILEY (voice over): The team relies on a Former Software Designer for translation.

KILEY (on camera): Is there anything about this that you can't handle?

ANNA KOVALCHUK, TRANSLATOR: All those deaths? I of course, they are incredibly hot. I don't know what to take. Somehow I feel guilty about

that.

KILEY (voice over): It's a 20 minute run for the ambulance to a field hospital.

WRIGHT: Would you push this slowly for me, please? A mind roughly like what was it 20 minutes ago, 30 minutes ago now mind 30 minutes ago - careful

please.

KILEY (voice over): He's delivered to another secret clinic. Here the wounded pour in. A soldier lost a leg in his abandoned uniform, the piece

of shrapnel that took it. Medics here say it's relatively quiet. Some days there are hundreds of patients.

WRIGHT: He doesn't remember losing if he lost consciousness or not. But pupils were equal in reactive, normal, same size.

KILEY (voice over): Blood soaked stretches dry in the sun outside and sunset can be busy for medics. Soldiers trapped by fighting can be rescued

as the light fades. Back at the evacuation point, no wounded five dead soldiers lie in body bags. They're so fresh from the battlefield, they're

unknown.

Their IDs are checked and they're photographed. Their suffering is over. Their families don't yet know that theirs is about to begin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KILEY: Now Julia, as I say the numbers of people killed on both sides are unknowable, really, neither side would give any kind of accurate

estimation. But I think there is a great deal of pressure inside Ukraine and being maintained by Ukraine on her allies to accelerate the delivery of

the strategic weapons that they say that they need because they want to be able to try and win this war this year. They know that they can't really

win a war of attrition, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Sam, it's a breathtaking tragedy and also breathtaking heroism and bravery there. Thank you for reporting on that and thank you for being

there. Sam Kiley there, Senior International Correspondent in Kharkiv! OK, more from the front lines, now Senior National Security Correspondent Alex

Marquardt has this report on the foreign troops fighting in Vuhledar, and they tell him why they're risking their lives so far from home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On the road as the sun comes up with American fighter Jason Mann at the wheel,

driving into the devastated frontline town of Vuhledar. Traveling in and out through a muddy field means being exposed a direct line of sight from

Russian artillery and tanks.

MARQUARDT (on camera): It's not an early morning--

MARQUARDT (voice over): First light means hopefully avoiding the endless Russian shelling raining down, including terrifying thermobaric missiles

everyone aware that a shell could land at any moment.

MARQUARDT (on camera): Even as Russian forces struggle to take any real ground here they're inflicting a massive amount of damage on this town,

which is largely made up of the Soviet era apartment blocks.

You can see this one blackened by the fighting over here, a massive crater from a Russian missile. Ukrainian forces do have the higher ground here

they are able to use these buildings to defend this town, but it is getting absolutely pummeled.

MARQUARDT (voice over): Only a handful of hardy civilians left their home now eerie apocalyptic ruins

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --on the side

MARQUARDT (voice over): For a month, man and his unit of foreign troops, called the failings group have fought alongside Ukraine's 72nd Brigade,

keeping the Russians at bay.

JASON MANN AKA "DOC", INTERNATIONAL LEGION (ph): This is redefining the global order as we speak. This is democracy versus autocracy. Do we want to

let autocracy control more people's lives in the future or prevent it from doing that ever again --?

MARQUARDT (on camera): And that's what's in your head when you head out there?

MANN: Absolutely, that's the only reason I'm here.

[09:10:00]

MARQUARDT (voice over): Waves of Russian forces advanced and open fields. They've had enormous losses, but they keep coming and keep bombing. This

strategic corner of Ukraine is where the Southern and Eastern fronts meet, making it a major priority for Russia's push deeper into Donbas.

Mann arrived in Ukraine at the very beginning of the war. He's a Former U.S. Marine who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and went on to Columbia

University and worked at Google as a software engineer. In the village house where the unit lives a few miles from the front, Mann tells us he's

now here for as long as it takes.

MANN: Ukraine as a very committed to having their country back. That is and that includes Crimea to most of them. As long as morale is high, I'm happy.

MARQUARDT (voice over): And it is he says, as the war enters its second year, new recruits have also just arrived from Canada and the U.K. The

fight so urgent, Team Leader Turtle from New Zealand only has a couple of days to get them ready.

TURTLE, INTERNATIONAL LEGION: There is such a lot of emotion within these fights. Mainly because in from a lot of what I've seen is they don't want

to be there either. You know, I never thought that I'd ever experienced no war in the sort of way in the solid capacity, because we're just finding

war and I don't know like, it's like fighting in a time war.

MARQUARDT (voice over): Turtle has to head to a funeral for a Ukrainian teammate just killed by Russian mortar fire. There are so many losses and

such little time to grieve.

TURTLE: So it's harder for us guys from foreign militaries because we'll ever since like Iraq and Afghanistan, we weren't losing - so fast all the

time. It's always good to be able to remember your friends but it's hard sometimes when the next day; you've got to go and do something, sometimes

even that same.

MARQUARDT (voice over): Both Turtle and Mann are very matter of fact that they could lose their lives fighting for a country that isn't theirs. One

year into this war, neither is second guessing himself.

MANN: And not everyone gets that choice for me. It was more of a serendipitous, like one of those moments in your life that you don't really

have a choice actually.

MARQUARDT (on camera): No regrets?

MANN: No regrets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: And one-year tragic conflict in Ukraine has also resulted in a life changing year for many Russians too. Fred Pleitgen joins us now from

Moscow. Fred, Russia frame this invasion in the beginning is an attempt to liberate Ukrainians. But we saw President Putin this week acknowledging

commemorating the Russian lives lost. Has public opinion evolved or changed in any way over the past year?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think if anything public opinion here in Russia is probably more behind Vladimir

Putin than it was at the beginning, of what the Russians call their Special Military Operation was quite interesting, because we were speaking to the

tops of independent pollster here in Russia.

And of course, all that always needs to be taken with a grain of salt. However, Vladimir Putin's popularity ratings here in this country, his

approval ratings are around 80 percent at this point in time. And even as far as the war in Ukraine is concerned, most people even though it might be

lukewarm support, at least they do seem to still buy into the reasons why Vladimir Putin led them into that battle.

It was quite interesting, because this past week, of course, Vladimir Putin pretty much went from one event to the next laying out the reasons why he

did all this and why he felt that he didn't have any other choice, saying that he believes that these were Russian lands that were under attack by

the Ukrainians believing that or saying that he believes that the U.S. was infringing on Ukraine was sort of trying to drive Russia out of that part

of the world and try to push Russia back.

And those are things that do seem to resonate with a lot of people here in this country. Now, of course, they do acknowledge that things are going

very difficult. And you know we've been covering this war for the past year. And I remember standing on the border between Russia and Ukraine on

the Russian side as it was starting and seeing Russian armored vehicles rolled passing the Russians shoot into Ukrainian territory.

And they seemed like an army that believed it would be over very quickly that they would win very quickly. They were waving at our cameras. But you

could see in the course of the next days that followed, that there was something different set in and they were starting to put their sort of flak

vest or bulletproof vests into the doors of their cars because they were getting so much counter fire.

So I think there has been somewhat of a rude awakening for the Russian military as all this has been going on. And I think one of the things,

Julia, that we've seen over the past couple of days is Vladimir Putin has been laying everything out. He has said that this will continue.

He has said that he will bring new weapons to the Russian forces fighting on the front lines, but he really hasn't said how he thinks that things can

move forward and how Russia can actually prevail on the battlefield because it has been a very long time since there has been a major Russian victory

on the battlefield.

And even now, as so many people are speaking about a possible Russian offensive taking shape in the East of Ukraine and fighting intensifying

there has been very little in the way of ground gained on the part of the Russian forces.

[09:15:00]

PLEITGEN: So they clearly have some logistical issues. They certainly have some issues of actually constituting that military that would do that. And

we have heard very little from Vladimir Putin over the past days of what the sort of medium term future will bring except for the fact that he says

that Russia will go on and he believes they will prevail in the end, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes and that's the biggest fear I think at this moment is that there simply is no end in sight. Fred Pleitgen thank you so much for that

and we're going to discuss this after the break. Stay with CNN, more to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", landmarks across the West a light with colors of the Ukrainian flag to mark the first anniversary of Russia's

invasion of Ukraine. In Paris, the blue and yellow Eiffel Tower shone across the city as the Mayor tweeted Glory to Ukraine.

In Brussels the European Parliament building you can see there splashed in the colors of Ukraine's flag. And in London demonstrators painted blue and

yellow on the road outside the Russian embassy. While thousands of people turned out for a vigil in Trafalgar Square.

I just take a look at the Empire State Building here in New York. I don't think there's any missing that message a powerful show of solidarity, but

one year on still no clear path to peace. China has just released its 12- point proposal for de-escalating the conflict, including point one respecting the sovereignty of all countries.

And also includes resuming peace talks, keeping nuclear power plants safe and stopping unilateral sanctions. Just take a listen to some of what U.S.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The 12 points in the Chinese plan. If they were serious about the first one sovereignty, then this war could

end tomorrow. Of course, Vladimir Putin is flagrant disregard for Ukraine's sovereignty is what's at the heart of this. The war could end tomorrow if

he simply pulled his troops out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: A pointed response. Joining us now Ian Bremmer, President and Founder of GZERO media and Eurasia group he's also the Author of "The Power

of crisis". How three threats and our response will change the world. Ian, always great to have you on the show!

We'll get to a point 1 to point 12 on China's plan there but I want to talk first and foremost, one year of war in Europe. I don't think anybody felt

that we would be in this situation one year on in the first days of that war your observations today?

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT & FOUNDER OF EURESIA GROUP, GZERO MEDIA: Big stories one year on are that you have the end of the peace dividend in you Europe

that's permanent.

[09:20:00]

BREMMER: And that means that Russia has been decoupled economically, from the EU, there are very significant long standing energy costs that they're

going to hit. As a consequence, millions of refugees they have to deal with they're ramping up their defense expenditure dramatically.

And of course, they're increasingly in an asymmetric war directly with Russia itself. Russia, on the other hand, increasingly treated like a rogue

state, not a part of the international community, virtually no engagement from the United States from its allies, as a consequence, no possibility

near term of negotiations with the West or directly with the Ukrainians.

And of course, caught in the middle the Ukrainians with an economy that has now collapsed some 40 percent contraction over the last year and the

Russians continuing to fight and fight and fight the Ukrainians taking that in the teeth.

CHATTERLEY: It's something that we've heard from Biden and numerous leaders of allied nations this week is this concept of being behind Ukraine for as

long as it takes, but just listening to what you were saying there. And the comparison you're making between the situations that Ukraine faces versus

Russia, far more dramatic economic collapse.

It seems in the case of Ukraine, smaller population exhaustion, over what we've seen over the last year, I mean, being behind them, as long as it

takes. On the face of it, Ukraine has less time than Russia.

BREMMER: I think that's right, Julia and I mean, certainly in the last 12 months, you have to give the Biden Administration very high marks for

leadership of the coalition and support of Ukraine. This has gone about as well, as one could have expected, given expectations in the first weeks of

the war.

When you know, pretty much all of the NATO leaders, all of the military analysts were expecting that Zelenskyy was gone, the Russians were going to

mop up in a matter of days, if not weeks, we're in a very, very different position from that and thankfully, so. But it's hard to look at the coming

year.

And imagine this will go as well, for the West, as it has, in the last year, we are starting to see significant diminishment of support,

particularly from Republicans in the United States, some independence as well, and willingness to provide another 100 billion dollars, for example,

to Ukraine, every year going forward.

The Europeans are starting to wonder about where the Americans will be. And of course, they don't want this to go on forever, either. And the Chinese

are starting to intervene directly, potentially tipping their thumb on the scale in favor of their strategic partner, the Russians, all of that is

going to be much harder for the West to deal with.

And Julia, the big problem is I mean, you can imagine if we just froze the conflict right here, literally froze everything. So the Ukrainians lose 17

percent of their land but they've got massive military support from the West. They're being integrated into the European Union, NATO is expanding.

They'll get hundreds of billions of dollars to start to reconstruct their country. I mean, that is not acceptable from the Ukrainian position,

because they will have lost this territory but if you look at all of the potential scenarios for the coming 3, 5, 10 years, frankly.

That's probably one of the better ones that you can consider and that's a serious problem for everybody involved, except for Putin, who increasingly

truly believes that, as you say, time is on his side.

CHATTERLEY: How long does it take? And what does it take for that 17 percent loss to become politically emotionally acceptable? Ian, whether

it's for the Iranians or anyone else?

BREMMER: Julia, you know, back in the early fall, the White House was basically saying publicly that they're going to put pedal to the metal, do

everything they can to support the Ukrainians through the fall, and then we'll see where they are? And then maybe you can start a negotiations

process.

Well, they've done that Ukrainians picked up a little bit of territory but it's basically a stalemate. And the White House now is basically saying

exactly the same thing, but just pushing the timeframe forward into the spring. So you have expectations for a new counter offensive from Ukraine,

probably in April or May, especially depending on when ammunition to sufficient quantities comes into their hands from the Americans from

allies.

And you see if they can take more of their territory. And then once again, you see if you're in a position where you might be willing to start

negotiations started first and foremost, by the Ukrainians themselves. But the question is, of course, can you maintain the same level of cohesion and

support from NATO from the west?

Are the Chinese going to stay on the sidelines? Or do they start actively supporting the Russians? What does that mean? How are the Ukrainians doing

through all of this? Can they continue to fight with the same level of engagement those Ukrainian leaders just last week in Munich when I was

seeing them at the security conference?

[09:25:00]

BREMMER: They didn't like the Biden formulation of as long as it takes their view is we need as much support as humanly possible now because we

can't be fighting this war on our territory for 3 years, for 5 years, for 10 years, it a permanent war on the ground in Ukraine is clearly not a

strategy for Ukrainian success.

CHATTERLEY: What about the Chinese? You've mentioned them a few times. Now we've had this 12-point plan for de-escalation. There's opportunity here

for China's surely in helping to resolve this conflict. And they'll always be looking for perhaps what they can extract from putting pressure on we've

also got the Foreign Ministry overnight, saying it's disinformation?

That campaign that suggests that they're in some way getting closer to providing weaponry to Russia at this moment, and they've pushed back quite

harshly on that. Where does China stand at this moment in your mind, Ian?

BREMMER: I think that the threat of providing direct weapons is more than perhaps the reality at this point that the Chinese do know that the

Europeans will strongly aligned with the Americans in tarring the Chinese with the same brush that the Russians have been tarred with if they start

providing significant direct military support to Putin.

So I mean, if you want to keep the Europeans on side, if you want to trauma effects, upset offensive for economic integration, and more business to be

done with Europeans that would be the wrong way at it. So I'd be surprised to see that, but I do think the Chinese see an opportunity.

They see that the Americans are starting to divide a little bit starting to weaken a bit on Ukraine; they see that the Europeans want to get back to

normalcy if they can. And they're saying, well, no one's talking about peace. We'll talk about peace. And let's have the Ukrainians and the West

portrayed as the obstreperous ones, of the ones that want to continue a Forever War.

At the very least, if you're China, you believe that you can get most of the developing world on your side by taking that position. And maybe just

maybe you can get some of the Europeans as well. So I think a lot of what Xi Jinping is doing today is performative, I don't think it's expected to

be a meaningful peace plan.

But I also think that over the coming months, we're going to see a Xi Jinping visit to Moscow directly to meet with President Putin. No way he

would have done that 3, 6, 9 months ago. I think that's a big deal. I think the West isn't going to like it and geopolitically, we do see that there is

a bit more willingness of Xi Jinping to step up to that statement he made back in February 4, about global friends without limits.

CHATTERLEY: I have about 30 seconds very quickly. And I fear I know the answer to this question before I ask. Ian, you and I are having the same

conversation about another anniversary in one year's time?

BREMMER: No, no, I don't think we are, Julia. We didn't want to talk less about Ukraine. I want to talk a lot more about Russia and its increasingly

destructive role more broadly in the west and in the world. I wish that weren't the case, but the aperture is widening on this war. It's not

staying the same.

CHATTERLEY: Ian, always great to get your context and insight. Ian Bremmer, President and Founder of GZERO media and Eurasia group, thank you. Still to

come here on "First Move", the Poroshenko Plan; the Former Ukrainian President says there are 7 steps to help win the war in Ukraine. He joins

us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! And to signs of solidarity from around the world marking one year since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, as

we speak Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is meeting virtually with leaders from the G7 nations. Pictures here too from Paris where the French

President Emmanuel Macron is also attending that meeting.

And British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak led a one minute silence outside number 10 Downing Street earlier. He was also joined by the Ukrainian

Ambassador to the United Kingdom as well as members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. And landmarks as we discussed past from New York to Paris all

illuminated with blue and gold to mark this solemn anniversary.

And meanwhile, the battle continues playing out along the eastern front lines. Russia's private military company the Wagner Group is claiming

control of a village near the embattled City of Bakhmut, an area where some of the fiercest fighting has taken place.

Meanwhile, the first consignment of Leopard 2 tanks from Poland has arrived in Ukraine. The Polish Prime Minister was on hand in Kyiv to see them

handed over. Poland has said it will deliver 14 Leopard 2 tanks in total over the next two or three weeks.

And my next guest says more needs to be done to help defeat Russian President Vladimir Putin. Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has

laid out what he calls "The Poroshenko Plan". Seven steps he believes the world needs to take to cripple President Putin and the Russian economy.

The plan includes setting a lower price cap for Russian oil, blocking the entry of Russian sanctioned export goods into the Suez Canal and issuing

sanctions against Russia's state nuclear power company. And he joins us now from near the frontlines a war.

Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko. Sir, it's good to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us. I do want to talk about your

plan. But I know you're on the front lines with the Ukrainian forces. I just want to ask how they're doing and how they're holding up.

PETRO POROSHENKO, FORMER UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: I think Ukrainian armed forces which was created in 2014, with a great interoperability with NATO,

based on the NATO standard, surprise the world.

Today I'm in Donetsk region, with a brigade paratroopers brigade number 81 from spearmint, we're from - brigade 25 paratroopers, and the team brigade

at - and I'm proud to have these soldiers who save the world because world was saved because of the resilience of Ukrainian people because of the

courage of Ukrainian soldiers and because of the - the leadership of the United States.

Our partners in this situation when we have a 10th year of the Russian war, exactly one year from the Russian invasion we come today to the frontline,

we bring the artillery tractor, we bring everything we can to make the victory closer.

And definitely for the victory we need five things, weapons, sanction, justice for Putin, financial support for Ukraine to survive and full

membership in NATO and EU. And you're absolutely right. I propose seven steps plan for sanctions. And what is the purpose of this plan?

We should cut the Russian export to stop Putin ability to finance the war from 600 billion to 300 billion and for that we have proposed several steps

including a new sanction on Russian liquid natural gas.

[09:35:00]

POROSHENKO: Stop position from - to supply because this is given more than $60 billion. The closing of the search journal this is also $60 billion.

Russian losses in export we have to stop supplying from the oil pipeline - through the Ukrainian territory, and all the - plan to push Putin to sit on

the table of negotiation after withdrawing all their foreign troops from the Ukraine who are - Ukrainian territorial integrity.

CHATTERLEY: You know the one thing that stood out to me and a lot of these points are about tightening sanctions that already exist, is stripping

Russia of its uranium enrichment services. And I just wonder why we haven't seen sanctions on the nuclear energy sector in Russia? And I worry that

it's because other European nations rely on these for nuclear energy. Petro, this is something that could be tightened and hasn't been.

POROSHENKO: That situation, I have a great experience in work with the European Union, with all the member states. And with the again, with the

leadership of the United States, we can reach all the necessary things, I have no doubt, and I know that Europe now start to understand and have

three points to understand you're in this year.

Point number one, Europe stop trust Putin. Point number two, Europe stop afraid Putin. And point number three Europe learn how to keep together. And

with this situation, despite of the fact that Putin found on some member states to block the next - I'm an optimist, and I am absolutely confident

that we will have a nuclear sanction against Russia.

But most important thing we should again, cut the finance for Putin, this is definitely can undermine the Russia from insight and that would help us

to de-Putinize Russia, help us to de-Putinize Europe and help us to de- Putinize the world providing the sustainable global security.

CHATTERLEY: Petro, you know, Vladimir Putin. You've interacted with him; you've negotiated with him in the past. I want to ask you about China's

proposal, and whether you believe that President Xi Jinping can and will influence President Putin to stop this war?

POROSHENKO: First of all, it definitely took note on the Chinese decision to come up with a political position. And this is the great evidence that

this is not just a local regional war. This is the global tragedy, which not avoid any nation in the world.

Bad news from the outside there China call it visit Ukrainian Russian crisis. This is not a crisis. This is the biggest war in the world after

the World War II, definitely biggest war on the European continent. And we should pay serious attention to this question.

We in Ukraine definitely understand what necessary to do and we think that Chinese role can be crucial. They said that the key from the piece is not

in Kyiv is not in Brussels, and even not in Washington. The key from the piece is in Moscow.

But when the whole world would be the same united as today on the - or yesterday on the General Assembly of United Nations where 141 nation stay

together and Russia can count only on North Korea, Syria or Belarus with that situation definitely I'm quite optimistic.

I want to see the positive role of China. I think that with this situation we count that Chinese will not just call for the ceasefire. We just not

hate the idea to stop supplying Ukraine, the weapons because with that situation, if you pray, stop shooting up no you pray.

But for our Chinese friend if Russia stopped shooting, it would be peace. I have an experience for cooperation not only for cooperation with China and

negotiation only with Putin but also with the President Xi.

[09:40:00}

POROSHENKO: And I think now is the right time. And let me use these broadcasts in this interview, use this opportunity to say that totally,

absolutely good idea for President Xi to come to Kyiv to visit Bucha to visit Irpin to see what was the military crimes and how important is the

Chinese role in this process to have a direct negotiation with Ukrainian authority? And I think this is the right time and the right place to start

these negotiations. Please follow the example of the President Biden that would be--

CHATTERLEY: Petro Poroshenko, Former President of Ukraine. Sir, stay safe, and thank you for your time today.

POROSHENKO: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. OK, after the break, caught up in the conflict, the Ukrainian teacher who fled to Poland with her young son goes back for an

emotional reunion that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! As we mark one year since the start of the war in Ukraine. It also feels important to look beyond the

talk of geopolitics and weaponry, and remind ourselves of the personal stories of innocent Ukrainians those that are dealing with conflict, but

also working to build a better future.

We've kept in touch with the School Teacher Daria Khyshenko, who fled Kyiv with her 10 year old son. They risked their lives to escape with a pair

traveling through four different countries before finally reaching Poland. And now she teaches Ukrainian refugees Polish as part of an emergency

employment program called "Cash for Work" sponsored by CARE and the Polish Center for International Aid.

And earlier this month, Daria returned for an emotional reunion with her grandmother who wouldn't leave her home. Daria also visited the ruins of

Bucha and Irpin coming face to face with some of the devastation caused to her home country.

And she's now back in Poland and joins us now. Daria, it's great to have you on the show. It's great to see you're looking so well. But I do want to

start with simply what it felt like to hug your father and your grandmother after all that time?

DARIA KHYSHENKO, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE HIRED AS A TEACHER IN POLAND: Yes, your starting was most emotional frankly speaking moment of the whole trip back

to Ukraine because I remember it.

[09:45:00]

KHYSHENKO: It was - I was waiting for it, I was excited about coming back home, but most importantly, to be seen and meeting and hugging my closest

my father and my grandma. I haven't seen them for a year. And it was such a great moment to just be joining with them seeing them and tagging just, you

know, small talks being together.

And it was also a bit sad, because I knew that it's just for a few hours, and the fact that part of my family is in Ukraine. And the other part, my

mom and my son are in Poland. And the fact that it is still unsafe to return home. This is the feeling of bittersweet at the same time.

CHATTERLEY: I remember vividly you telling us about your father, and you know, he's not young, but he decided to fight. He felt that it was his

responsibility to defend Ukraine. How's he doing too?

KHYSHENKO: Yes, it was his decision to stay. And he joined territorial defense of the town. He is very busy now. And I'm very proud of him because

yes, you're right he is - he is not young, he who could have gone with us last year, but he decided to stay because he felt that this is what he

should be doing.

And I remember when we were - when I met him, just recently, and we were talking and he said that I want to say because I want my family, my

daughter, my grandson to return home safe, independent country. And this is why he is there. And he's standing and staying in Ukraine, despite all the

dangers and all the threats that are obviously there.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And you your mother and your son in Poland, you're teaching I remember you found a job very quickly, because you're a teacher

and you're teaching Polish to Ukrainian refugees there as well so that they can integrate in life.

How's your son doing? And how often does he talk about going home because I remember that was one of the things as much as he was having some fun and,

and learning new things in Poland, he kept talking to you about going home?

KHYSHENKO: Yes, I am - I started as a teacher, I joined this CARE sponsored program. But later on, I joined CARE as a Communications Officer. And I'm

happy to be working with Ukrainian refugees and given this assistance and just meeting a lot of amazing people who were affected by this conflict,

but who are also very strong to be building new life in new country.

And I'm happy to be at least somehow part of this assistance to have this help my people to Ukrainian people, and if my son marks he has his he's

doing better and better he is now in fifth grade of Polish class. He speaks Polish fluently finally.

CHATTERLEY: Wow!

KHYSHENKO: Of course, he thinks about going back home every day. He still keeps in touch with his Ukrainian friends who are unfortunately now are in

England and in States and in many other countries, but some are also in Ukraine.

So he's just happy to be - he understands how important it is now to be in Poland. How unsafe it is to be in your grandpa the dreams are to return of

course home and he cannot imagine his future the in a way. So our all my dream and all of Ukrainians dreams are to return to independent safe and no

country that states.

CHATTERLEY: Daria, I'm blown away by your strength. You're clearly a supermom. And the fact that he's learnt Polish in the space of what one

year is fluently is just incredible. I guess I'm proud of you for everything you've achieved this year. Very quickly, I want to ask you, if

you had the opportunity to speak to Vladimir Putin at this moment what would you say to him?

KHYSHENKO: OK, this is a difficult question. To be honest I wouldn't like to have this opportunity. To be honest, I wouldn't like to have this

opportunity.

[09:50:00]

KHYSHENKO: I would rather speak to people to those who have support it and who are still supporting Ukrainian people. And if I may just talk about how

thankful I am and how thankful we are we Ukrainians are for all the support that have been given to us and how important it has been and how important

it is still now for all the support that's for refugees in foreign countries and for internal displaced people in Ukraine.

And this is, this is important to be talking to people who are - care and who will really help and not to those who Bucha imposition of leaving your

flat leave in your country in 20 minutes. So yes, thank you. Thank you for supporting. Thank you for donated to CARE and to other organizations that

support Ukrainian refugees all over the world.

CHATTERLEY: And Daria I think that's about as powerful as that message could be. Thank you for your time our hearts with you and love to the

family. Thank you. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of the first anniversary of the full scale war in Ukraine! Ukrainian President Volodymyr

Zelenskyy is expected to speak at any moment. Earlier today he spoke to troops saying the future of the country lies in their hands.

He also met virtually with members of the G7 nations. Our Nic Robertson joins us now. Nic, I think Volodymyr Zelenskyy likely to say once again,

and we've heard it already this week that the war is likely to end this year. The question is, does it and how?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: If it does, it'll be around - it'll be around the negotiating table. Everyone does agree with

that. That's how wars typically end. But to get to that negotiating table I think a year is a really short space of time.

It's not impossible, and perhaps towards the end of the year. But what seems to be the position we're in at the moment is both Russia and Ukraine

are very fixed in their positions. They're not saying they're against peace talks, but they're saying that they're - the talk should be on their terms.

Certainly that's Ukraine's view. And certainly President Vladimir Putin and his speeches this week, who said that the war is going well, it's going to

schedule they're on track to do what they set out to do. So it really means that what is going to happen is that there's going to be continued military

conflict on the battlefield.

Russia at the beginning of last year, a year ago looked like it could sweep through Ukraine quickly. It didn't. It had had the better army. It had had

more troops and Ukraine fought it to a standstill.

[09:55:00]

ROBERTSON: In the meantime Ukraine has got more troops; it has got a better army. It has got more sophisticated equipment. It's got a very organized

Western alliance behind. It has sophisticated equipment at top range tanks, a lot of armored fighting vehicles coming under its control very soon.

All of that's going to give it the opportunity to change the game. And this is what the hope is of, of Ukraine's backers that they can change the game

on the battlefield, shape the battlefield. Those are the words of the U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin that they can begin to shape the dynamic

with this enabled force. But the reality is to shape the battlefield, they're going to have to double down at the war, and Russia will respond in

a like fashion.

CHATTERLEY: I think the conversation we were having this time a year ago with us it was that it was all going to be over very quickly and Kyiv would

fall so a very different conversation here today but nonetheless, a painful year too.

Nic, thank you for that! Nic Robertson there! And we're going to hear from President Zelenskyy momentarily and we will bring that to you when he does.

For now that's it for the show. Stay with CNN for continuing coverage of the anniversary of the war in Ukraine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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