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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Putin Admits "Losses in our Ranks" at FSB Meeting; Yellen says "So far, so good" in U.S. Inflation Battle; China Attacks U.S. over TikTok Ban on Government Devices; Murdoch Admits some FOX Hosts "Endorsed" 2020 Election Lies; Startup Transformers Food Waste into Chicken Feed. Aired 9- 10a ET

Aired February 28, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST: A warm welcome to "First Move", great to have you with us for a special snow edition of the program today the New York

City area getting its first real snowfall of the season. OK, OK, it's just a little dusting where we are but we're extremely excited all the same. And

our news flow filled with snow this hour too.

S is the stocks, Wall Street beginning the week on a firmer footing Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen telling CNN that it's "so far so good in

the fight against inflation". And it's for Nigeria, Africa's largest economy still counting the votes and its consequential presidential

election. We're live in Lagos with the latest.

O is ousted! Canada, just the latest government to announce a TikTok app ban on government phones the United States laying down the law again as

well. We'll have a complete report and China's response too. And finally W for wealth, Monday's 5 percent rally in Tesla shares restores Elon Musk is

the richest person on the planet maybe even the universe will go that far.

Tesla stock has bounced almost 100 percent from its recent lows, context, though, is key. And it may sound good but it's still down some 50 percent

from all-time highs, as you can see on that chart. Musk getting richer though must be in a most positive market picture and it does U.S. futures

rising to end the month though barely.

Europe also mostly higher too but there is discouraging news on the U.S. consumer spending a key driver of the American economy retailer target

topping profit estimates but also warning at the same time that consumers are focusing more on buying necessities. It says the retail environment is

"very challenging".

This comes after similar comments from Walmart and Home Depot last week. Tough news on the consumer front in Europe today too, with inflation

heating up once again. In France and Spain goods and services the driver there a mixed picture. In the meantime, took over and across the Asian

markets as investors close out the trading month Hong Kong announcing though.

It's finally scrapping its almost three year masks mandate all the details on that coming up, too. But first, we begin with the latest from the war in

Ukraine and President Zelenskyy says the fighting in the Eastern City of Bakhmut this "getting more and more challenging".

According to the Ukrainian military, Russia's Wagner mercenary group is sending its most highly trained units to fight there. In the meantime, in

Kyiv a surprise visit by U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen.

Melissa Bell joins us on this three imposing I think the financial and moral support that we saw from President Biden, this time last week, too. I

know you had the chance to speak to the Treasury Secretary, talk to us about that and of course, the latest from the East as well.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The very latest from the east, first of all, and we've been getting some fairly harrowing accounts, Julia, from

some of the soldiers who are leading that battle. You mentioned a moment ago those words from President Zelenskyy last night, the latest from the

Officials on the ground.

One soldier telling CNN look, take those official accounts and imagine a level of difficulty that is 100 percent higher than that. Other another

soldier describing the scenes there's hellish. And on some of the videos that we were able to dedicate yesterday, you could really see the effect of

the weather that you can see behind me Julia, muddy terrain, some parts of it flooded.

Now the soldiers are also speaking about the fact that they're holding firm because they say those elite soldiers are being sent some of the most

battle ready battle hardened groups and they believe the soldiers that as long as they can hold it. They're gaining time for what Ukraine has

promised will be a spring of counter offensive to come but fairly difficult details to read from.

They say, though, that they are holding the town refuting Russian claims that they've managed to encircle it entirely in saying that, on the

contrary, are there a couple of supply routes that remain open even though they are under enemy fire, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes and as we can see there, and we're showing you what appears to be drone pictures of just utter devastation. Melissa, talk to us then

about to the U.S. Treasury Secretary because you did manage to speak to her?

BELL: Well, it was a visit that was designed to show once again, Julia the unwavering American support for Kyiv just a few days after Ukraine

celebrated the fact that the city still stood.


BELL (voice over): The objects have been the message from the President himself to the Secretary of State and now to the Treasury Secretary.


BELL (voice over): Unwavering American support delivered in person to Kyiv. From a divided and testy G20 in Bangalore, where she chastised the Russian

delegation, Janet Yellen came to see for herself. The impact so far, of about $50 billion of American aid to Ukraine.

BELL (on camera): The comments you made to the Russian Officials in India. Do you want to send some Moscow's listening?

JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I think they are listening. I think that we have imposed very serious cause on them. And they hear from not

only the United States, but a large coalition.

BELL (voice over): On the Treasury Secretary's tour, an invincibility point where warmth and power are provided, when neither is available. Here

Ukrainians shelter, even as allies try to punish Moscow.

YELLEN: We will not tolerate systematic violations by any country of the sanctions that we've put in place that are intended to deprive Russia of

access to military equipment to wage this war. And we've been very clear with the Chinese government, that the consequences of violating those

sanctions would be very severe.

BELL (on camera): I'd like to move on to more domestic matters, if I may. We've seen the fight against inflation take a hit PCE hitting 5.4 percent.

Do you believe at this stage that the Fed is behind the curve or that a soft landing is still the most likely scenario?

YELLEN: I personally believe that it's possible to bring inflation down, while maintaining we have a very strong labor market. I think we can

maintain it. I would say so far so good.

BELL (voice over): But back home, the cost of the war in Ukraine, including its inflationary pressures, was more contentious. As the war enters its

second year and with an American election year beginning to loom, there are questions about how long the West's unwavering support can last?

YELLEN: So I think there is broad support among our allies, many members of Congress have been to Kyiv to visit and I think all of us are inspired by

that. And we'll be ready to support it for as long as it takes.

BELL (voice over): So for now, a further pledge of the support that's allowed Ukraine to come this far.


BELL: What was most remarkable, Julia was seeing Secretary Yellen's emotion and I think that's the case for all of the American leaders in Congress,

people who've made the visit here, it is one thing to follow it, it is another thing to fund it. It is something still different to see it for

yourself, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely, an important conversation. Melissa, thank you for that! OK, to Russia now President Putin speaking at an annual meeting with

the country's security service known as the FSB.


VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA: Unfortunately, there are losses in our ranks; the leadership of the FSB must do everything to provide additional

support to the families of our fallen comrades.


CHATTERLEY: Fred Pleitgen joins us now from Moscow. Fred, another morale building speech, acknowledging the vital importance, I think of the

security services, and that they will need to step up their activities, but also acknowledging and unavoidably the loss on the battlefield too.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, I think you're absolutely right too, Julia, that this was very much a

morale building speech for the security services. And it's, sort of a pattern that we've seen from Vladimir Putin over the last couple of days in

fact, yesterday, he was giving a speech to Russia's Special Operations Forces.

And were they're telling them that they were doing a very important job that they needed to continue to do it and then obviously, talking about the

special military operation of the war in Ukraine that obviously Russia is involved in. Now, today, he's telling the FSB operatives, exactly the same

thing, saying it's very important, the work that they're doing.

And I think some of the things that we picked up on were extremely interesting, where he acknowledged that they were active on the front lines

in the war in Ukraine, but that he also talked about them being active behind enemy lines as well, obviously, trying to infiltrate the territory

that's controlled by the Ukrainian forces.

So that certainly seems like an important acknowledgement. Also, the fact that he did say there and you guys had that in the sound bite, which is

very important as well. That there have been losses so far in the ranks of the FSB, as they call it, special military operation goes on.

I think for Vladimir Putin, it's absolutely clear that these special services and the military as well are extremely important to how things go

forward in the war in Ukraine that now of course is in its second year, and we're still progress is pretty slow to come by for the Russian forces.


PLEITGEN: He said it was very important also for them to get established and establish more of the FSB in those areas that are now controlled by the

Russians inside Ukraine. Obviously the Russians view that as their own territory, Vladimir Putin talking about that that was important as well.

And I do also think that segment where he talked about the possible infiltration, not just by Ukrainian operatives, but by Western intelligence

services as well, and that the FSB needed to step up its game there. I think that does show just how serious Vladimir Putin is about all this.

And of course, that was something that the Kremlin spokesman had said before Vladimir Putin even started talking, that this was going to be a

serious conversation that he was going to pave the way for the way things move forward with the FSB in this coming year, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes and the underscores a conversation that we've been having really since this war began that there's two battles going on here. There's

the kinetic and the physical war, and there's also the informational war that's taking place as well and very much tied to that the airspace around

the main airport in St. Petersburg closed temporarily earlier today.

Immediately rumors were flying about potential hack attack. What are the Authorities saying, if anything about what happened, Fred?

PLEITGEN: Yes, that was quite interesting, because originally, they were speaking about an unidentified flying object in the skies around St.

Petersburg, around Pulkovo Airport in St. Petersburg, really a pretty wide area around that airport. The airspace was closed off no flights for a very

long period of time.

Later, the Authorities were saying that there was some sort of hack by of radio and TV station around that area that then broadcast the message that

there had been air raid alerts going on there. They later said that, that was fake. And obviously all of this was lifted and now at the airport, the

traffic there is moving pretty normally, once again.

We did hear from Aeroflot from the main carrier here in Russia that they were doing things to make sure that they tried to get their schedule back

on track, because obviously a lot of flights were canceled this morning. But it certainly was an interesting sort of segment, you're absolutely


Of course it does tie in possibly to the information war as well, where of course the Russians are now saying that this is a fake message that was

broadcast and apparently some of those air raid alerts that could be heard there are very similar to the ones that obviously Ukrainians go through so

often right now as they are under attack, especially the critical infrastructure in Ukraine from Russian missiles.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, Fred, great to have you there to be able to separate fact from fiction for us. Fred Pleitgen, great to have you, thank you. Now the

wait in Nigeria continues three days after voting began 23 out of 36 States have declared their tallies in the race to be the next President.

The ruling party candidate Bola Ahmed Tinubu is leading so far. But of course, frustration and anger are growing and now three opposition parties

are calling for a fresh election and the resignation of the Electoral Commission Chairman. Larry Madowo joins us live from Lagos.

So growing consensus among the opposition parties, but this whole process and we're talking millions and millions of people have to go back to the

polls. What is the Electoral Commission saying?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So far, the Electoral Commission has rejected any calls for a redo of this election, but these calls are

growing. We've been trying to figure out this past couple of days how much of the irregularities and the places where the polls did not take place,

and the violence and the voter intimidation?

How much of it rose to the level of invalidating the entire election? At least these three main opposition parties in Nigeria think that they were

so widespread that it invalidated the entire election. They're calling for a new election, which is unlikely I got to say this, especially because the

ruling party candidates the APC, they all people All Progressives Congress Bola Tinubu.

His party says they're on their way to victory. They're already 1.5 million votes ahead with 13 or so States announced and they will take this thing. I

want to read for you a section of the statement from these three main opposition parties in Nigeria.

Well, they just said today, they say, for instance, that the People's Democratic Party, the Labour Party, the ADC and other line parties shall

not be part of the process currently going on at the National Collation Center, and we demand that this sham of an election should be immediately


They go on to say that we're also calling for a fresh election to be carried out within the window allowed by the Electoral Act and in

accordance with the laid down INEC procedure for the conduct of the 2023 elections. INEC is the Independent National Electoral Commission, and

they're calling for the Chairman of the Electoral Commission to step aside if this new election were to take place and somebody from outside the

commission to take the reins of carrying out that fresh election.

This throws a spanner in the works and we will definitely hear some strong reaction from Bola Tinubu's party, he is the ruling party candidates, he's

been a Kingmaker. In fact, his entire premise his motive for this election has been it's my time because he's been a Kingmaker in lots of other ways

for lots of other Presidents, including President Muhammadu Buhari, and he's believed that it was time for him. So I don't think you'll be

accepting this, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that context is vitally important with what around half of the votes counted down the fact that he's in the lead. You would

expect him to say hey, let's just wait for the result here versus the opposition parties, perhaps calling for fresh elections.


CHATTERLEY: And what are critical here is the people and what they decide and a willing to accept. Larry, what's your sense of whoever they support?

What the people are saying and feeling at this moment? And will we ultimately get a result will they accept it whatever it is?

MADOWO: Because these opposition parties have done a joint statement that means that it covers a lot more of the population. Peter Obi of the Labor

Party got a lot of young people excited in this election got to record numbers of them to register to vote. And I've spoken to Nigerians who felt

disenfranchised by places where politics didn't take place, or where they were intimidated where those violence, were ballad materials were


And they also felt that this did not represent the views. So the fact that the opposition parties are speaking in a combined voice that adds to the

fuel. And I think I've been saying this a past couple of days in our air that there's a growing number of Nigerians who feel that if this outcome

does not represent their views, then we might have a problematic situation here.

This could escalate quickly and this will again add to that file. People will feel so unhappy that they somehow feel that the Electoral Commission

colluded the ruling party to disenfranchise them essentially to suppress the votes.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, they need to count quicker. Larry Madowo, thank you for that. OK to Asia now and a case of unmasking the masks more than 2.5 years

and almost 1000 days later. People in Hong Kong will no longer face hefty fines for violating face covering mandates Kristie Lu Stout reports on Hong

Kong's about face.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is one of the last places on the planet where you still have to wear a mask but after almost three years of

both indoor and outdoor use in public, Hong Kong is finally dropping its mask mandate. Now I still have to wear this today, because the mandate is

not fully scrapped until Wednesday, March the first. Hong Kong's top leader John Lee made the announcement on Tuesday.


JOHN LEE, HONG KONG CHIEF EXECUTIVE: In order to give people a very clear message that Hong Kong is resuming normalcy. I think this is the right time

to make this decision.


STOUT: For much of the past three years, Hong Kong and neighboring Macau both followed China's strict zero COVID policy. Macau dropped its mask

restrictions on Monday. And according to Dr. Karen Grepen at the University of Hong Kong, face masks have played an important role in reducing

community transmission in Hong Kong but now that almost everyone is vaccinated and most people have also been infected, dropping the legal

mandate is well past due.

People can now do their own risk assessment to determine if they want to wear one or not. Hong Kong's move to scrap masks comes after the government

launched its Hello Hong Kong campaign to bring back tourists and international visitors and business people. And starting Wednesday, they

can breathe easy with the mask mandate effectively over Kristie Lu Stout CNN, Hong Kong.

CHATTERLEY: Nice to see her smile. Straight ahead recession on the radar or more of a no landing, we'll discuss the economic outlook with Moody's Chief

Economist after the break, and later attacking food waste by taking out the trash. I'll chat with the CEO of the startup turning your rubbish into

something for more useful. Stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", so far so good on the fight to bring down inflation. U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen says that even

though inflation in America is still too high, she believes a soft landing is on the radar but risks, of course still remain.


YELLEN: The global situation we face is very uncertain; there can be shocks from it. But look, inflation still is too high but generally, if you look

over the last year, inflation has been coming down. And I know the Fed is committed to continuing the process of bringing it down to more normal



CHATTERLEY: Inflation has been falling but not at the pace many economists had hoped for. And recent economic data has put more pressure on the

Federal Reserve to keep raising interest rates in order to team rising prices. Joining us now to discuss this and more Mark Zandi, Chief Economist

at Moody's Analytics, Mark, always great to have you on the show! Do you agree with that assessment, so far, so good? I guess the emphasis has to be

on so far.

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST AT MOODY'S ANALYTICS: Yes, you know, Julia, I do. I think we're making progress. I mean, as the Secretary pointed out,

inflation is still painfully high. But it's definitely moving in the right direction. And all the trend lines look pretty good. So yes, I expect

inflation to get back in the bottle close to the Feds target, a year, and year and a half from now and things feel on track.

You know, obviously, in a world of high inflation and high interest rates in the course of - trying to figure this all out on the fly, you know,

recession risks are high. But I think we have a fighting chance to get through this without any recession. So yes, I would agree with the


CHATTERLEY: Significant part of the cushioning effect that we've seen is the activity of consumers and what $2 trillion cash cushion that consumers

built up during the pandemic? Where that is cushion today and if it's so plump, still? Why is household debt at record highs?

ZANDI: Well, yes, there's still a lot of cash, consumers have been drawing down that extra savings they did during the pandemic, you know, a lot of

people were sheltering in place and couldn't spend. So they save that money. And then, of course, a lot of lower middle income households

received government support, and they save that money.

And that has really helped to cushion the blow to their purchasing power from the high inflation. And that's allowed consumers to continue to do

their thing. You know, they're not out there spending with abandon, but they're doing what they typically do and it's because of that cash cushion.

There's still a lot left, particularly for middle and high income households. I mean just to give you a number, at the peak, there was $2.5

trillion worth of excess saving. Now we're down to 1.6 trillion. So it's down, but it's still considerable. But you know, low income households,

they likely have blown through that excess saving that cash and they no longer have that they need.

They use that to pay those gas bills and the rent and the grocery bill. And now they are turning to their credit cards and unsecured personal lines.

And so we are seeing debt growth increase significantly among that group and so that's a sign of stress. So hopefully, we need that inflation to

come in to take that pressure off of those households.

So they don't need to borrow quite as much to maintain their purchasing power. So it's a bit of a race here but in aggregate, consumers still have

a lot of cash sitting in their bank accounts that they can use if they need to.

CHATTERLEY: I know I always feel sorry for the lower income households when we talk about in aggregate.


CHATTERLEY: And to that point, there was a headline in the time online, and you were quoted in the article and it said the U.S. economy is doing too

well which is bad for the people that aren't rich, because it's always those lower income people that we're talking about now that is already

borrowing on credit and racking up credit card bills.

And the question to your point about bringing inflation down is how much more expensive that credit gets as interest rates rise and how much more

punishing it is for those people? How much more do you think the Fed has to do in order to be at least comfortable even if it's not back to around the

2 percent target, because I guess that's the key question?

ZANDI: I think, yes, it's a great question. And that's the crux of the matter. I mean, I think they're close.


ZANDI: You know, it feels like to me the interest rate hikes they put in place are slowing the economy down, you can feel it in the housing market,

you can feel in different parts of manufacturing interest rate sensitive sectors of the economy. So it feels like things are throttling back.

And I'm hopeful that the Fed only needs to raise rates another couple three more times, quarter point each time. That's pretty much what the Fed has

articulated to everyone that they're going to do. I think they'll probably follow through on that. And then I think that's the end of it, Julia.

So hopefully, by late spring, early summer, we will have seen the end of the rate hikes and not that they're going to come back down quickly. We've

got they're not going to lower rates until inflation is clearly back to their target. It's more comfortable for people. I could take a while, but I

think we're pretty close to the rate and --.

If we're not, then I, you know, my optimism here about the economy and avoiding recession will be misplaced, because of the higher they have to

push rates, the more likely it's going to undermine the economy and push us into recession.

CHATTERLEY: And your note this week, you talk about consumers keeping the faith and actually that recession ultimately is about consumers losing the

faith. Let's assume that you're right and the Federal Reserve's predictions over what they have to do in terms of further interest rate hike are


Do you buy the concept of a no landing economic outcomes? So not a hard landing, not a soft landing, that actually growth can slow inflation can

come down, but we don't actually have to see any kind of recession.

ZANDI: Well, I think the yes, I think the no landing kind of a description is that the economy keeps barreling along here. But inflation keeps coming

in and goes back to target and we're all good, I doubt that. You know, my sense is that you know, the economy is going to slow here, job growth is

going to weaken, even to a point where unemployment starts to rise a bit.

So it's going to feel a bit uncomfortable here, Julia. I don't think there's any way around that. So I don't think we're going to experience a

no landing. Soft Landing doesn't do it for me either, because I don't think it's going to be soft. You know, I call it a slow session, not a recession.

We're not going backwards, but we're going nowhere fast, so slow session. So if we're looking for the right words to describe what's dead ahead. You

know, I don't think soft landing, no landing that doesn't work for me, you know, slow session feels like a much better description of what's coming.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, actually the perfect word. So slow session and the word aggregate is now formally banned on "First Move". Mark Zandi, thank you so

much --.


CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Mark Zandi, great to chat to you! OK, coming up after the break. What are you afraid of China criticizes the United States

for banning TikTok from government devices all the details next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Where U.S. stocks are up and running this Tuesday and an unsettled open as Wall Street closes out

February trading a challenging month too for stocks, with all the major averages currently down by more than 2 percent.

Not a lot of Valentine's month hearts out there as investors pour over the charts. The stock news today too, call it perhaps the return of the

lockdown stock. Zoom shares are zooming ahead after earnings beat and strong forward guidance context though is key as always.

Zoom is still down 44 percent this past year amid the uncertain outlook for teleconferencing post lockdowns. Shares of retailer target in the meantime

pretty flat in early trade, the company beating on earnings but offering weaker forward guidance, as we discussed earlier warning that consumers are

spending less on discretionary type items.

And in the meantime, China has accused the United States of being afraid of an app popular with young people after the White House ordered federal

agencies to ban TikTok within 30 days on government issued devices as this move has been ordered by Canada and the EU, of course, too. Kevin Liptak

joins us now from Washington, D.C.

Kevin, great to have you with us! U.S. officials had raised concerns that the Chinese government could order ByteDance, which owns TikTok to hand

over important data. And this was Congress's decision to act and now we're following through?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, exactly, right. Remember, Congress passed this at the end of last year now the White House is telling

government agencies that they have 30 days to wipe TikTok off of devices used by federal employees.

Now that there had been a number of departments and agencies within the federal government who had already taken this step places like the

Pentagon, the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security who are handling the most sensitive data?

But this would apply to the rest of the federal government and the White House says that this will be a critical step in protecting sensitive

government information. Now TikTok, the company did respond yesterday they said that this was no more than political theater.

They said the ban on TikTok on federal devices passed in December without any deliberation. And unfortunately, that approach has served as a

blueprint for other world governments. And that is correct, as you mentioned, places like Canada and the EU also considering taking similar

steps that would prevent federal employees from using TikTok on their government devices.

But this is clearly a hot button political issue in the United States as well. And in fact, even today, Julia, Republicans in the House are moving

forward on legislation that would give President Biden greater leeway in making a nationwide ban on TikTok, effectively making it illegal to use on

any phones in the United States.

A number of states have also implemented their own bans on government devices. And what you're seeing in some states is they're abandoning TikTok

for use on campuses on state colleges and universities.

So really trying to crack down on this app where they really fear that user's privacy could be at risk information could be shared with the

Chinese government. But this could prove politically unpopular as well.

Two thirds of teens in the United States use TikTok. So this is clearly a hot button issue that President Biden will be dealing with as part of a

broader crackdown on China part of a broader look at how the U.S. is dealing with China in the months ahead.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, ordinary citizens giving up their data is perhaps one thing, government officials and protected information quite another. Kevin,

thank you for that, Kevin Liptak! OK, now to some stunning testimony from the media mogul Fox News.

Rupert Murdoch has admitted in a deposition that some of his FOX Hosts endorsed 2020 election lies. His statements made as part of Dominion's

voting systems 1.6 dollar lawsuit, billion dollar lawsuit against the network. Just take a listen to have some FOX anchors talked about that 2020




KEITH RUPERT MURDOCH, AUSTRALIAN-AMERICAN INVESTOR: The President's lawyers alleging a company called Dominion, which they say started in Venezuela

with Cuban money and with the assistance of Smartmatic software, a backdoor is capable of flipping votes.

LOU DOBBS, THEN- FOX NEWS HOST: This President has to take, I believe, drastic action, dramatic action to make certain that the integrity of this

election is understood or lack of it, the crimes that have been committed against him and the American people.


CHATTERLEY: And Oliver Darcy joins us on this now. Oliver much to discuss on this, but I just want to hone in what Rupert Murdoch admitted was that

while FOX News didn't and that's key, some of his top hosts were pushing election lies out to the audience, and they knew they were doing it?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes, this is really strengthening, I think, Dominion's case against FOX News, because FOX has argued up until

now that they only aired newsworthy statements about the election, after it was called for Biden. In other words, they didn't endorse these election

lies. But they had commentators and others say these things on its air.

Now we're seeing in this deposition where Rupert Murdoch is under oath, and he admits to Dominion that some of his top hosts did indeed endorse these

election lies. Election lies that he was privately referring to as damaging to the country as "BS" but he was allowing those commentators those hosts

to go on his network and peddle this lie to viewers. It really exposes this network is not really a news organization, but one that was profiting off

of frankly, lying, actively lying to its own audience.

CHATTERLEY: And they were being warned by people like the Former House Speaker, Paul Ryan, that viewers believed that they're watching credible

sources, and we're being fed a diet of lies. And we have a sense of what the implications were of that.

But I think you raised a very important point, which goes, I think, to the business model of media, in that there was this fears that if you start

telling the truth, or you don't give salacious details or lies in this case, you lose eyeballs. And that's a problem too, for an anchor.

DARCY: News networks at the core are the business models built on delivering the truth to viewers and that's not always easy. And there are

some imperfections, sometimes news networks mess up, but they're honest with viewers at their core.

In this case, what we're seeing from Dominion is these documents that FOX News knew privately behind the scenes that Trump's election lies were

exactly that lies. They privately trashed these lies in communications between themselves behind the curtain.

But when they went on air, when the cameras turned on, they fed these lies to the audience. And that is not really a business model of a news network.

That's the business model of a right wing talk network of a propaganda channel.

But it's really important to distinguish what FOX was doing from what actual news organizations were doing at the time, which is fact checking

the President. And these dangerous lies he was telling about the U.S. election system.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, there's a fine line there. I would argue the business model of TV, unfortunately, is advertising. And that's based on eyeballs.

And that's where the gray lines start to appear in terms of content. But that's a way bigger topic of conversation, Oliver I think a part of the

dangers that we're facing, not just in TV, but in social media too.

Bringing it back to this and to Dominion, even if Dominion lose this case, Oliver has raised huge questions to all of your points, I think about the

conduct, whether it's a FOX News itself, or specific anchors that were mentioned here?

DARCY: Yes, I mean, I think this is certainly scared FOX away from mentioning Dominion on air. We saw for instance, on Sunday, the channel's

top media anchor say that he had been forbidden from covering this story on air as this lawsuit continues to get underway, which is actually quite a

striking admission. So FOX is just ignoring this altogether.

But I will say that the anchors, there or the hosts there I hate to call them anchors, they're still sowing doubts about the 2020 election. You

know, after one of these legal documents dropped the other week, Tucker Carlson led his show, by again, casting doubt on the validity that Biden

won a fair election.

I mean, you can't really make this stuff up. It just again, highlights and underscores that these people are willing to actively lie to their audience

and, you know, they talk about how they need to risk respect their audience and I guess in their eyes.


DARCY: That means feeding them whatever content validates their views, even if their views are predicated on false pretenses. I would argue that a true

respect for the audience is being upfront with them not treating them like they can't handle the truth. But again, with just not what we're seeing

from FOX.

CHATTERLEY: Maybe the viewers can but the ratings can't. Oliver and just to complete the circle on this, Rupert Murdoch did say, "I would have liked us

to be stronger in denouncing it in hindsight", at another point in the deposition, just to make that clear. Oliver Darcy, thank you for that.

OK, coming up after the break, can I have a rubbish story for you? Yes, I do. The startup recycling food waste into feed for chickens. Don't panic.

I'll explain after this.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Food waste is filling our landfills and worsening the climate crisis. The gases it generates accounts

for 8 to 10 percent of greenhouse gas emissions worldwide.

And my next guest, who originally pioneered the Nest Learning Thermostat, has now turned his attention to changing all that with a startup that

collects discarded food products. A third of food is wasted here in the United States alone and ends up in places like this.

The service called "Mill" provides consumers with a special compositing bin, which grinds up food waste overnight. The end product is then mailed

back to the firm for processing into chicken feed. Matt Rogers is the Co- Founder and CEO of Mill and joins us now. Matt fantastic to have you on the show!

I can understand the premise here. Get rid of the leftover food that you have in your kitchens and actually make it into something useful and help

the planet along the way. Just explain how the bin works and the secret process behind it?

MATT ROGERS, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO OF MILL: Yes. So Mill is a new system to prevent food waste at home. It starts with a new bin that you put in your

kitchen that takes all the food that you don't eat dries and grinds it. It doesn't smell. It takes weeks to fill up. Then we have a service to come

pick it up from your door to get it back to us to get it back to farms to feed chickens.

CHATTERLEY: I love the fact that it doesn't smell so you've worked on some kind of technology to prevent that because that was one of the first things

that jumped out at me. What about noise and what about energy? And how often do you have to run it?

ROGERS: Yes. So it runs automatically, overnight. And the most important thing for us this has to be a better experience than people are dealing

with today at home and no one likes trash. Think about ripping bags and dripping in their hallway as you take it out.


ROGERS: So we want to make an experience that is just better, better for you better for the planet and better for cities.

CHATTERLEY: And what about noise and how much energy? I think I read, it takes about the same energy as a dishwasher running overnight?

ROGERS: Yes, it takes about a kilowatt hour of energy a day, which actually, in the grand scheme of things is actually not very much. We're

offsetting about a half a ton of emissions per household per year by using the Mill service. Methane emissions from landfills are actually an enormous

part of the climate equation. So it's really important that we keep food out of the trash.

CHATTERLEY: And I'm assuming it's some kind of process that dehydrates the food, then what's the process to make it from whatever is provided in to

get sent back to you into chicken feed? And what are the regulations around that because obviously, ultimately, people are going to be eating these

chickens too? So that was one of the other things that sort of occurred to me.

ROGERS: What's cool is what comes out of our bin is still food. It's just dried food it has all the nutrition, the calories and the protein that were

in the food originally. So when we get it back to us, we sift it and filter it to make sure there are no contaminants. Someone didn't put a plastic

bottle in by accident. We pasteurize it again, and we create a safe and nutritious ingredient for chicken feed.

CHATTERLEY: And there's no regulations around it all there are regulations around it, or you're already feeding chickens, because I know you've only

just begun. So I'm sort of asking lots of questions and fasting forward. But it's, it's early days, I know?

ROGERS: Yes, we're still going through the required scientific and regulatory process to create a safe and nutritious ingredient for chicken


CHATTERLEY: How long is that going to take?

ROGERS: It should take a few more months. And out of respect for the process, I don't want to go into too much - too many details on how that's


CHATTERLEY: You can just tease me. Now, here comes the crux, the cost per month $33?

ROGERS: So for $1 a day, you get a better kitchen experience, and you feel good about doing something for the planet. Over time, what we're seeing is

we could build agreements with cities where cities could provide this in an augmentation to their trash service today.

For example, we just signed a pilot agree with the City of Tacoma, Washington, where they're going to provide their residents, the Mill

kitchen bin experience, and you could downsize your trash bin and basically get Mill for free.

CHATTERLEY: OK, so when I was testing the water on this, because I always like to do this. I personally hate the idea and the smell and everything.

So for me, it was like this is a genius idea. The more people I spoke to the idea of $33 a month, people were like particularly in apartment

buildings, which is separate, but they were concerned about the cost. So the real business model here for you, you're saying is to work with cities

to work with localities, and hopefully offset that cost.

ROGERS: That's right. We spend an exorbitant amount of money managing waste today. I think the U.S. spends about $200 billion a year just managing

waste, which effectively means throwing it away and throwing it in the landfill. So you can imagine over time, us taking some of those dollars to

prevent waste from ever existing. It's a much more efficient way of running our system, and it's better for the planet.

CHATTERLEY: OK, and you've always had conversations with investors, I know because you've risen more than $100 million on this talk to me about that

process too?

ROGERS: So even in today's economic climate, there is a lot of interest in climate friendly solutions that are also good for people where the better

the plant good, is also just better for you. You think about electric vehicle electric.

Electric vehicles are better than gas powered vehicles or Nest Thermostats are better than what came before that. You know, investors are interested

in the water solutions that take the planet forward, but also are just better for us.

CHATTERLEY: Is the conversation are those conversations harder, though, to your point about the economic environment? We've certainly seen a lot of

job cutting from the tech sector, in particular in a sort of a reassessment of valuations. Are those conversations harder? Or is it OK, if you're in

the planet protection game?

ROGERS: From my experience, it feels like the climate tech environment is more resilient than the general tech environment. And maybe that's because

of government intervention and the IRA. The needs of the climate crisis, the climate crisis is not going away, regardless of economic cycles. So if

you think about how much the economy needs to change over the next decade, a lot of new businesses already created.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, final quick question that my mother's going to approve of this question because things always disappear when her children are home.

What happens if you throw a spoon or a knife in there? How robust is it?

ROGERS: So nothing will break the bin at home. And when you send that spoon back to us, we'll filter it out. It's actually pretty easy for us to catch.

No big deal.

CHATTERLEY: Just checking. Yes, we might not get it back. But at least the chicken won't get it. Matt great to have you with us, thank you so much!

We'll track your progress thank you. Matt Rogers the Co-Founder and CEO of Mill there, stay with CNN more to come.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Fascinating new research is underway into the cause of so called Zombie wildfires. Now they're blazes

that inexplicably come back to life. CNN's Allison Chinchar reports in the latest edition of transformers.


ALLISON CHINCHAR CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice over): It's summer in the remote boreal forests of Canada's Northwest Territories. And Rebecca Scholten,

along with an international team of researchers is on the hunt for signs of a rare and destructive phenomenon.

REBECCA SCHOLTEN, PHD STUDENT/VU AMSTERDAM: So the first thing you notice when you get to a site that has - had a zombie fire is that a lot of these

trees have fallen over. And that is because of the underground burning that is happening.

CHINCHAR (voice over): In 2015 this region of boreal forest was the scene of an overwintering fire, also known as a zombie fire. These are rare, so

we don't have any footage of them, but they can look just like these regular forest fires, except they're back from the dead.

SCHOLTEN: So these are fires that are not extinguished at the end of the fire season. But instead, they smoldered deep into the organic soil layer.

And when the snow comes the snow kind of protects them from the adverse winter conditions.

And that makes it possible for them to smolder all throughout winter. And when the snow melts, and there's dry fuels available again, these fires

come up to the surface again and start a new flaming forest fire.

CHINCHAR (voice over): In 2021, Scholten published the first ever scientific study to detect zombie fires using satellites and reports from

local fire managers as part of her PhD. For example, in the summer of 2015, a fire in Southwest Alaska blazed across 26 square miles.

Winter came and snow covered the fire site. But the following spring, the fire returned along the old burn scar evidence Scholten says of a zombie

fire. By burning through the soil and the roots zombie fires can be more damaging to the forest than regular fires, making it harder for them to


But that's not all. These boreal soils store huge amounts of carbon, so burning them releases it as carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Zombie

fires are rare, but shortly found that they are increasing due to climate change.

SCHOLTEN: So I think zombie fires are very good poster - for what is happening to Arctic wildfires in general.


SCHOLTEN: So we see fire regimes are intensifying. And this has very important impacts on the ecosystems that of course have an impact on our

climate. And that is why I think everyone in the world should care about these fires.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, we should. And that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, there will be on my Twitter and Instagram

pages you can search for @jchatterleycnn. In the meantime "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next. And I'll see you tomorrow.