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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Coming Up: Moscow Summit Summation; Most, But Not All Economists Except Fed To Hike Today; China's Xi Concludes State Visit To Moscow; Federal Reserve To Decide On Interest Rates Amid Fears; U.S. Investors Await Fed Interest Rate Decision; Siddiqa: This Is A Life And Death Fight For Every Human. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired March 22, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to FIRST MOVE, as always great to have you with us for an hour of deliberation, as we

discussed the Moscow summit summation. Fresh French pension agitation and Jay Powell rate decision preparation, lots to come.

China's President Xi departing Moscow, after three days of high level talks with his Russian counterparts long walks firm handshakes fast friends, it

seems but no verbal support for Putin's war in Ukraine, nor outright commitment to provide lethal arms to Russia.

A live reporter ahead from Moscow, also, President Emmanuel Macron on TV this past hour trying to calm nerves after sidelining parliament and

enacting deeply unpopular pension reforms. Opponents say we won't give up the latest coming up on that and the Fed Chair Jay Powell faces arguably

the most challenging test of his tenure later today.

The U.S. Central Bank, deciding whether to raise interest rates today as planned, and how much more to say about what's still required the so called

dot plots of future interest rate moves will especially be key. Now, Powell has the tools to fight both inflation and tackle banking stress.

But of course communicating that with confidence is crucial. Stock markets have studied though in the meantime this week and Treasury Secretary Janet

Yellen says depositors will get more protections if needed. But the banking uncertainty has not yet past.

Let's take a look at U.S. futures and European stocks a cautious feel as you would expect, as we await the Fed potential fireworks and fresh U.K.

data highlighting that the fire still burns and inflation U-turn there, rising to almost 10.5 percent last month.

As Former New York Fed President Bill Dudley told the show yesterday the Fed's big job today is don't make the financial uncertainty worse, do no

harm. The Central Bank has pumped billions of dollars back into the system to stop a financial freeze, which would effectively give it cover to hike

interest rates.

But how much more does the economy really need when you consider the economic blow taken in the last two weeks? Let's get more on all of this,

Rahel Solomon has all the answers for us, I know. Rahel, what do we think he does today?

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia, I think there's a question of what we expect and this debate about what they should do. So what they

expect then you can see here just from CME, that traders are largely pricing in another rate hike of a quarter of 1 percent. 15 percent

believing that we may actually see a pause now that is the expectation and I think we can pull it up for you here.

But then the question in this debate about what they should do in this really critical moment, and the argument on one side that they should raise

rates by another quarter of 1 percent, because in doing so it signals that not only do they remain focused on fighting inflation, but that perhaps

what we're seeing with the banks isn't as bad as it seems.

On the other hand, you have some who believe that a pause here would be an about face and could really spook markets. Consider for one moment what the

Chief Economist of Goldman Sachs, Jan Hatzius said in a note earlier this week, saying it doesn't make sense to tighten monetary policy amidst

ongoing stress in the banking system that could present substantial downside risk to the economy.

And what he's getting at here, Julia, is what you were alluding to there that we are already going to see an economic impact as a result of the

banking stress. Goldman Sachs suggesting that the pullback that we see in tightening because of this concern among banks, who now feel like well,

maybe we should be a bit more liquid, maybe we should be a bit nimbler and preparation for any potential bank runs that may come that's going to cause

a pullback in lending, right?

And so that is already going to have an economic impact. Goldman Sachs suggesting that could have an impact of the equivalent of essentially

another rate hike of a quarter to half a percent. So it will do some of the job for it. But Julia, as you know, monetary policy is famously a blunt


I'm not sure how enthused the Federal Reserve would be about solving this inflation issue through the banks through this stress, because I would

argue that could be even messier in terms of not knowing how damaging that impact could be, and the spillover effect of that.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, you raised so many great points, then in the end, all this comes down to is messaging, the message that's received as a

result of the decision that they take on interest rates. And I think you've also raised a crucial point about the fact that they have the tools.

They have the tools to do different things. They can protect the banks with certain measures. We've seen it with the provision of loans; they can also

tackle inflation with rate hikes. The problem is do people take fright - on those choices?


SOLOMON: You know what's so interesting, Julia, that messaging and that communication as you know the Federal Reserve that speaks can be

notoriously vague, can be notoriously ambiguous. And you can certainly argue that there is a reason for that at least they believe that there is a

reason for that.

You know, I would argue now was not the time for ambiguity, right now is not the time for bigness in terms of messaging. I think markets and

investors want to hear a clear message in terms of what the Federal Reserve is willing to do in terms of resolving these banks, but also its resolve in

terms of inflation.

And so we might hear from the Fed a bit more clarity, a bit more pointed messaging than perhaps we've heard in the past, because of this reason,

there was already so much uncertainty in the market. We don't need any more uncertainty from Chairman Powell.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we've ended where we started, do no harm. Rahel Solomon, thank you for that, we'll see. OK, to Ukraine now and images of an apparent

missile strike in Zaporizhzhia. You're about to see video of the moment and missiles struck a residential building and the scale already of the damage,

I think, pretty evident.

This is President Zelenskyy made a surprise visit to the frontlines in that Donetsk region. You can see him shaking hands with soldiers there. For the

latest, Ivan Watson has this from Kharkiv.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ukrainian Authorities say at least two Russian missiles slammed into apartment buildings in the

Southern Ukrainian City of Zaporizhzhia this attack taking place on a bright sunlit day in late winter, which is kind of deceptively beautiful

when you consider the deadly hazards of the conflict that are taking place now.

Now the search and rescue teams were on the scene. These were two 9 storey apartment buildings. The acting Mayor of the city says at least one person

has been killed, dozens of people hospitalized. Fire Department on the scene trying to put out the fires at least 2 children injured in this

attack that has been condemned by the Ukrainian Authorities as a war crime as they put it committed by vile Russian terrorists.

This attack taking place the day after the Russian and Chinese Leaders Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping were embracing each other in Moscow after two

days of meetings where they declared to the world that they want to create a more just more democratic multipolar international order.

Within hours of those declarations and the deep declarations of friendship between these two leaders the Ukrainian Authorities say the Russian

Military fired multiple deadly missiles and drones at different Ukrainian cities and towns. Missiles fired by Russian war planes at the Southern Port

City of Odesa, where air defenses succeeded in knocking down at least two of those missiles.

But more got through causing damage to a 3 storey building wounding people and then the Ukrainian Air Force say from the north of Ukraine, at least 21

of these Iranian made Shahed drones were fired at Ukraine that some 16 were knocked down by air defenses, but at least 4 people were killed in a city

outside of Kyiv in the town of Zhytomyr.

In that region, several of those drones were knocked down. The Russian say that there were some kind of drone attacks on the Russian Occupied City of

Sevastopol in the Crimean Peninsula. All of this air war, which kills and maims civilians, innocent civilians, is taking place as the two militaries

continue bludgeoning each other, killing each other in trench and artillery warfare on the very long front lines. Ivan Watson, CNN Kharkiv.

CHATTERLEY: Now that missile strike that Ivan was describing coming just hours, after Chinese leader Xi Jinping wrapped up his state visit to

Moscow. Xi concluded what Beijing called a "journey of friendship", after holding talks with Vladimir Putin at the Kremlin during his goodbye

handshake and you're just seeing that earlier, too.

Xi reiterated his view that global power is shifting from the west to China, saying, "Together, we should push forward these changes that have

not happened for 100 years". Matthew Chance joins us now from Moscow. Matthew, great to have you with us!

If the ambition was to display the friendship, the growing alliance with China and perhaps also ruffle some feathers in the West, then one could

argue it was a success. But what about deliverables, like receiving weaponry or even verbal support for Russia's so called special military

operation in Ukraine? I didn't hear any of that.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, it wasn't that full throated support for the invasion of Ukraine. In fact,

China has been pushing its own peace plan for Ukraine and that's one of the things that were discussed. And you're right; there was no public

announcement that there would be military support for Russia in terms of weapons and ammunition being delivered to Russia.


So we can push forward on the on the front line and that's probably because that's a red line at the moment that China is not prepared to cross. So

that we don't know what was discussed behind closed doors. And the vast majority of this meeting took place in private.

But yes, deliverables, while there was quite a lot actually, in the sense that, you know, more than a dozen deals were signed between Russia and

China, on projects too, either physically or economically connect the two countries, bridges, pipelines, and things like that.

They discussed a new pipeline to carry gas between Russia and China, which really re-orientate even more Russia's economy towards the east, towards

China. And of course, the very fact that Xi Jinping was here, having a face to face meeting again, and they've met each other more than 40 times Xi and

Putin was it was a symbolic gesture, symbolic show of support for Vladimir Putin.

You know, it was just a couple of days remember, after Putin was indicted at the International Criminal Court in The Hague for war crimes. And so it

was really important symbolically for Russia to have Xi Jinping literally standing at Vladimir Putin shoulder.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, that his presence there, I think speaks volumes. You also and it was your reporting, Matthew that got a suggestion that perhaps

preparations were being made behind the scenes over in Ukraine for a conversation between President Xi and President Zelenskyy. What more do we

know about that? And how optimistic on the Ukrainian side officials are having watched this 3-day display? Let's call it that.

CHANCE: Well, we know that from Ukrainian Officials that discussions have been underway to arrange a call between President Zelenskyy of Ukraine and

Xi Jinping of China. It would be the first time they've ever spoken and that compares very unfavorably with what I just mentioned, the fact that Xi

and Putin have met more than 40 times.

But those discussions haven't gone anywhere yet. I understand they're still ongoing but there's nothing concrete that's been scheduled. Now, in terms

of, you know what the expectation is in Ukraine? Well, I mean, the peace plan that China has put out there, which has got 12 points calling for

talks between the two countries, Russia and China.

And also but stopping short of calling on Russia to withdrawal from territory, it's already conquered. Yes, that's not going to be acceptable,

as far as we're aware from the Ukrainian point of view. A territorial withdrawal is a key demand for --. And they've stated again and again, that

they wouldn't be prepared to negotiate a ceasefire, until such times at least that term has been fulfilled.

CHATTERLEY: Matthew Chance, great to have you with us, thank you. Right, President Emmanuel Macron, defending controversial legislation to rise the

country's retirement age to 64. And an interview on French Television, earlier Wednesday, President Macron called the reform necessary, and said

the bill should be enacted by the end of the year.

The interview comes after another night of protests. Sam Kiley joins us on there. Sam, so even in the face of pressure from the people, and we know

this is highly unpopular, the French President saying I'm not backing down.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he also said in quite strikingly in that interview Julia, that he didn't want to have to do

it, but that it was an economic reality that it should be done. So and his government has now been arguing for some time that for example, by 2017, on

the pension funds themselves.

There'll be a 12.5-billion-euro similar figure in dollar's deficit. And he says that these reforms, just raising the pensionable age for most people

to 64 from 62, would mean that by the end of the decade, it will be possible to balance the pension budgets.

Now, he also said that he understood why there was anger about this, that he endorsed the political right of people to protest, particularly through

the unions and strike and have the marches that have been characteristic of so much of the demonstrations that have been going on now for close to a

month since mid-January or longer than a month rather.

But he was very, very angry, in a sense about the violence of these spontaneous street marches that have been springing up particularly here in

Paris. I have to say that the demonstrations last night was markedly lower key than they had been on previous nights and not enormous numbers, 4 to

6000 at a peak on last Thursday, Friday, when this constitutional finesse was used by the government to force through the legislation against what

they feared in the government would be a no vote for these reforms.

And of course, his government then on Monday survived to attempts to unseat it through no confidence vote. So he added to that, Julia that he expected

by the end of this year, that there's new legislation will be enacted and that the reforms would go ahead.


The only thing that could stop and constitutionally at the moment is either the government backing down which he's made absolutely clear is not going

to happen. Or if it fell afoul of the Constitutional Council, which is currently examining the legislation, there's no real sense that it would do

so though, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, these are really tough decisions. But I do think to your point, bringing it back to the economics and saying, the numbers

simply don't work. And these are tough choices that we have to make. Sam, great to have you with us, thank you, Sam Kiley there!

And now time for TikTok, the CEO of TikTok set to testify before Congress, as he fights to avoid a full ban of the app in the United States. Ahead of

Thursday's hearing, Shou Zi Chew said in written testimony that the company has never shared user data with the Chinese government, nor would it TikTok

now boasts more than 150 million users in the United States.

According to the CEO, who says banning it would hurt many Americans. He's testifying in front of Congress tomorrow. Now straight ahead, a high wire

balancing act for the Fed as it looks to tame inflation without adding to further stress in the banking system were discussed with the Former

Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. It is decision day once again for the Federal Reserve as it weighs its next move on interest rates amid a banking crisis

and stubborn inflation. Do they go bold like the European Central Bank? Or do they take a more modest approach with a quarter point hike or no hike at


There's also the camp of people calling for policymakers to take that time out. What is clear is the Fed's job is not yet done. The U.S. economy has

performed strongly since the Central Bank's last meeting. But of course then banking turmoil has added further pressure to that decision.

Jason Furman joins us now; he's a Former Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors and currently an Economic Policy Professor at Harvard.

Professor Furman Jason, fantastic to have you on the show is the best move from the Federal Reserve today to do what the market expects and not make

his price.

JASON FURMAN, FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS: Look, I think the best move is 25 basis points. I think that's what they will do.

Had it not been for the banking turmoil that would have been an open and shut case for 50 basis points?


But the banking turmoil is a little bit contractionary; they should almost count that as one of the hikes. So they only really need to do one quarter

point hike now.

CHATTERLEY: Just one hike.

FURMAN: And remember, compared to the Europeans, the Fed is ahead. Interest rates are a lot higher here already. We probably maybe only have another

percentage point to go on the Fed funds rate, I think some investors are betting that we won't even need to raise it that much.

So, you know, a quarter points I think, is enough to show they're serious about inflation that is their primary mandate. They have other tools for

financial stability. In fact, we can't have financial stability, if they don't get inflation under control.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, my one hike down the quarter point is equating this economic damage that we've seen as a result of the banking volatility to

just a quarter of a point hike, which we'll come back to, because you raise another important point there and I want to pick up on that.

What about, what we saw from the European Central Bank where they said, look, we're going to do this, but we're going to be hands off now. And we

actually don't know what comes next, because we have to watch the data and get an understanding and effective removing of the guidance.

Do you think we see some kind of explanation like that from Jay Powell? Just to say, look, we don't know from here. We know we've still got an

inflation problem but we don't know about the banks, we've done our best for now. We'll see how it goes.

FURMAN: I certainly hope we see that and I expect to see that. And you know, every other meeting, they put out their dots where they tell you what

they think interest rates will be for the rest of the year. My guess is some of them are wishing that they had never let that genie out of the

bottle, because those dots today or you know what they think interest rates will be 9 months from now.

They have no idea, none of them have any idea and it's not their fault about how this banking turmoil will play out? How it'll affect the economy,

where they're going to need to move interest rates? So I think they're going to really need to distance themselves from their forecasts and be

even more data dependent than they normally are.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, I was reading your last op-ed, which was, and what feels like 10,000 years ago, but it was actually on the 2nd of March, which

is 20 days ago. And you were pointing out that if the underlying trend of data was accurate, judging by the January jobs increase, which we know was

several hundreds of thousands of jobs, net gains.

A 14 percent increase in inflation, adjusted consumption spending. 7 percent annualized core inflation than the Fed should be raising rates by

2.5 percentage points, not the 0.5 percentage point that we were talking about back then. It gives you a sense of the strength that we were talking

about in the economy two weeks ago and the degree of uncertainty today.

FURMAN: Yes, absolutely, look, I mean, it is still the case that the U.S. economy is just a wash and demand. Inflation is running at about a 4.5

percent rate that has not underlying inflation that has not slowed in the last 9 months to a year job growth is well above normal.

The economy in the first quarter is look to set to grow maybe 2, 3 percent above its potential and so we need to bring demand down. What we don't know

is will the banking turmoil be enough to bring demand down? Now, we don't want to bring demand down through a financial crisis.

That would be terrible way to reduce demand. But can we sort of titrate it can the Fed titrate it in the way they'd like to, and that's going to be

very hard to do. And the only way they might have a prayer of doing it is if they are very attentive to the data of financial and macro as the year


CHATTERLEY: Yes and as you point out, they do have different tools. They have the ability to hike rates to try and control inflation. They also have

the tools like we've seen with the lending facilities that they're the Federal Reserve to be able to try and tackle some of the instability in the

banking sector too.

What is crucial, particularly to lending in smaller regions are the community banks, the small and medium sized banks that we've seen as sort

of the proxy for the broader pressure that we've seen in the banking sector in the United States. Do you have any sense of what happens when you see

these deposit outflows in these banks?

To what extent that then means that they restrict lending. So if a bank comes out, and we've seen PacWest, which is one particular bank, provide a

statement saying they've lost 20 percent of their deposits. Vitally important to understand what the impact of that is on future lending just

to get a sense of the economic impact to get back to where the conversation began?

FURMAN: Yes, I mean, unfortunately, we don't know. There have been some deposits flowing back in as there is increasingly understood that if there

needed to be a guarantee, there would be a guarantee.


Even if deposits haven't flowed out of your bank, you're going to have to have your CEO, your boss, or your supervisor is all sort of trying to pull

back figure out how they can conserve capital. But on the other hand, this is still sort of a surprisingly regional issue.

This is mostly California, a bit New York, obviously spreads to Switzerland, but it didn't spread very much too much of the rest of the

United States. And so, you know, we'll have to see if that happens, as well.

CHATTERLEY: You know, some estimates out there are really aggressive, suggesting that what we've seen, and the spillover effects, even if I think

this sort of wraps up to your point about it being very specific and regional, for the most part. It could equate to 1.5 percentage points of

hikes, versus something much smaller. Jason, can you imagine that? Or do you think we had Bill Dudley on yesterday saying he thinks around half a


FURMAN: Yes, I think half is probably the best guess. I think it could be anywhere from 25 to 150 basis points. So when I said before, I didn't mean

it was only 25. I mean, it sorts of counts for one of the hikes. I had previously thought the terminal rate needed to be about 6.

Today, if I see in the dots 5.5 for the terminal rate, which is a little bit higher than where they were before, but probably lower than what Jay

Powell was signaling two weeks ago, I'd like to see some number like that a recognition that this counts towards some of the hikes, but it doesn't

fully supplant them and take care of the issue on its own, because, look, I'm worried that a week ago, the market was just sort of in full, the Feds

going to cut interest rates mode.

I didn't think the Fed was going to cut rates. And when those disconnects emerge, that can be a scary thing and an accident waiting to happen. So the

Fed needs to make it clear. No, we're going to still be raising rates, be prepared, and take the steps you need to. So you don't run into a problem

if that happens.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, because I mean, investors are still pricing cuts in the second half of this year. And, Jason, that goes to my final question.

What's the worst thing that Jay Powell could communicate today? Is it that he actually doesn't knock out some of that expectation of future rate cuts?

FURMAN: Yes, I think if he makes the market overly optimistic about future rate cuts that would be the biggest problem. But when there's a chance,

they'll need to cut rates if the data says that they should do that, but much better to have the market be prepared for the worst, rather than be

building itself on hoping for the best because that hoping for the best strategy and planning for the best has just not worked out over the last

two years.

So he needs to continue that serious message, this is going to be tough. This is going to be long; they're going to stay with it and their primary

mandate. This point is to bring inflation down.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, that was a great quote, too many analysts have focused on what is possible for the economy, rather than what is probable get real

moment. That was another quote from your op-ed. I liked it.

FURMAN: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Jason Furman, thank you so much, the Former Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, great to chat to you, and currently an

Economic Professor at Harvard. Great to chat, sir!

All right, coming up, after the break fighting fossil fuel polluters, the young Climate Activist who's made it onto the Times list of Women of the

Year. She'll be here to tell her incredible story and explain her ongoing fight.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE! And investors about to receive crucial insight into how the U.S. Central Bank views the recent turmoil in

global banking, U.S. stocks opening little changed.

I think that's pretty expected as we await to the Fed's latest interest rate decision and the Fed Chair Jay Powell's news conference of course key

the Fed statements that to be released in around four and a half hours' time.

Also today a pullback in shares of Regional Bank PACWEST reports within the past hour saying it seemed recent deposit outflows of some 20 percent as we

were just discussing, it's also drawing on an almost $1.5 billion cash injection from the firm Atlas Partners. We'll continue to watch that name

as you can see the share price lower this morning pre market. Oh no, the markets just open in trade.

OK, from Greta Thunberg at Davos to the opponents of all drilling in Alaska on TikTok. Young people are fighting to be heard in campaigns to protect

the planet and also fight against the fossil fuel industry. My next guest is a member of the United Nations Secretary General's Youth Advisory Group.

The 24-year-old in question is also a Co-Founder of Polluters Out whose aim is to drive the fossil fuel business out of every aspect of society. And

it's earned her a place on the cover of Time Magazine. Take a look at that, after her uncompromising poem, targeting polluters delivered a COP 27 went

viral. Here's a taster.


AYISHA SIDDIQA, CLIMATE ACTIVIST: I tell you that there has been a massacre and the land will never be the same, the soil will never grow the same. The

hum of mosquitoes has changed the color of the sky. And the sickness of your greed will haunt you in every single lifetime.


CHATTERLEY: Ayisha Siddiqa joins us now. Ayisha wow! That was a moment. I remember watching that and you gave me goosebumps which I hope you had that

impact on everyone. Just talk about that moment, but also what it was like to hear you were going to be on the front cover of Time Magazine because

that's a wow moment too.

SIDDIQA: I didn't know I was going to be on the cover. It was a surprise. But back to the speech, the speech was delivered at the very last day on

the very last day of negotiations. And it was actually at a press conference. I had my notes prepared.

I was supposed to go in and talk very pragmatically about very specific policy asks and earlier that day, my country had - Pakistan experience

flooding three months in advance but earlier that day, the political tensions, the things that we were very scared about the things that we - I

was predicting and I was being asked where is the data to support this began happening.

Grain is so expensive in Pakistan right now. Tomatoes are so expensive, so much so that people have begun having like fights at grocery stores.

Inflation is on the rise and the inter-personal relationships of people in my personal community have gotten so difficult because of the economic



So earlier that day, I received a message from my family that like we can't afford food. And I had written this poem prior to actually the meeting of

the UNGA in New York around September, and I ditched my notes, and I read this instead.

And next to me on the panel was Former Prime Minister of Ireland, Mary Robinson, and Vanessa Nakate. And I think, and I hope that the poem was

heard by the audience and wanted it to be heard which are government officials and heads of state.

CHATTERLEY: I think what's clear, having watched that video of you speaking, but also hearing you talk now, is that this is not just an

ordinary passion project for you? This is about your life. It's about your family's life and your fundamental belief that you've lost family members

as a result of illness, tied to pollution, tied to climate change. This truly is about life and death to you. And that's why you fight so hard.

SIDDIQA: Yes. And it's not just life and death to me, it's life and death of every single human being on planet Earth. You know, humans, if you want

to know how bad we are treating planet Earth, take a look at the illnesses that are arising inside of people.

What we eat, the air we consume, the water we drink it is and how that affects us, internally is an obvious experiment of how we're polluting the

earth because we consume right from it. And my family in particular when you come from a remote area, in a place of the world that is not

necessarily exposed to the same kind of processed food like we have in the United States, when you live off the land. Can you hear me still?

CHATTERLEY: We still got you? Yes, keep going.

SIDDIQA: You've disappeared for me. So I'm going to keep going anyway. And you haven't and that kind of community relies on the grain that you grow

with your own hands, the cattle that you feed with your own hands and the water you get from the river with your own hands, and you have been fine.

In fact, you've been thriving. In fact, the life quality in where you live is around 60 to 100 years old and then suddenly, in a course of 10 years,

one illness after another, cancers that we have never seen before experiences of malaria and dengue that we had not experienced before things

like appendicitis, and polio, just thriving here, in a particular part of the world that has been immune to all of this.

The only explanation is our food systems, our access to clean water and our air were affected. And so my family experienced it this is also the reality

of so many rural communities in Pakistan, and South Asia.

CHATTERLEY: And technology's moving on as well to enable us to identify it. But so should it be able to help address some of these things? Ayisha you

caught my attention with the founding of polluters out which I know one of the primary focuses of this is to get the UNFCCC to implement a conflict of

interest policy.

Because you're concerned and I know there's many of you out there too, that are concerned about vested interest about business interests, particularly

in the fossil fuel industry that's holding progress back. Talk to me about the willow project, because this is another area where I know you've

commented and this is about drilling in Alaska, and there was debate over whether it would go ahead or not?

President Biden recently decided to allow it to go ahead and the Biden Administration and there's been a real pushback, particularly from young

people on social media talking about this. Do you have a message for President Biden for the Biden Administration on this?

SIDDIQA: The Intergovernmental Panel released its last report yesterday. And if it makes anything clear now this is the world's leading experts,

scientists on climate and environment and health and intergenerational equity.

They were saying we cannot release any more carbon in the atmosphere if we want to stay below two degrees of warming. 1.5 is out of the window at this

point and polluters out.


It's not just about corporation and it's not just about like their influence at the UNFCCC level where governments are literally getting

together to solve the issue of climate. Do you know that the word oil and gas are not even mentioned in any of the texts, let alone Paris Agreement?

They're not even in the cover decision. So if we can outwardly pinpoint what is leading us to the end of it, possibly extensions of so many people

that how are we going to get to any sort of solution?

The Willow Project is expected to produce as much carbon as running 76 coal plants. 30 million people and scientists have warned that this will be a

threat to the people of the United States is going to be the largest gas and oil project on U.S. soil.

It will affect the Arctic. It will pollute the water, the air, and it will disrupt lives of 239 million. It will disrupt at least hundred million

people, but it will cause 239 million metric tons of global greenhouse gas emissions to be released. And if any sort of what I say today is touching

the hearts of anybody.

It's my family lives were directly affected because of the coal dams and the water pollution. And once that happens, and once everything that you

know, starts falling apart, then this is not just an issue of some people in the global south, it becomes everybody's problem.

CHATTERLEY: So I have about 30 seconds left on the show. So I guess your message to President Biden would be please stop. Please listen, and please


SIDDIQA: My message to President Biden is like, not just please stop but you are actively not only putting everybody else at risk, and you're

setting yourself on fire. This is my way and takes everybody else with me. And that's completely unacceptable.

CHATTERLEY: Ayisha, come back on the show, we'll continue this discussion. Great to have you with us and congratulations, once again! Keep up the

fight. OK, that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages you can search for

@jchatterleycnn. Marketplace Europe is up next. I'll see you tomorrow.



ANNA STEWART, CNN CORREPOSNDENT: It's the voice inside your handset. I'm Anna Stewart at the Mobile World Congress here in Barcelona, this month

artificial intelligence and its very real impact. We'll explore how AI is changing the way we communicate? Plus, how to give subtitles to life

itself, we'll meet the startup creating closed captions for every conversation, all that coming up here on "Marketplace Europe".


STEWART (voice over): It is one of the biggest events on the tech calendar, Mobile World Congress where more than 88,000 people gather to get their

hands on the latest devices? This show is usually all about the handsets and the hardware. But this year, the buzz is about the technology inside

whatever the device you're using it's the artificial intelligence within this got people talking.

Anything AI related seems to draw a crowd here. And this robot certainly knows how to work the room, as well as take my picture. But you can see

everywhere how AI has entered our lives. And the cars we drive the factories where we work. And yes, the smart phones we use every day. For

Carmine Di Sibio the Chairman and CEO of Consultancy EY there's no doubt that artificial intelligence is this year's biggest talking points.

CARMINE DI SIBIO, THE CHAIRMAN AND CEO OF EY: The conversation here is really about technology and emerging technologies. And obviously AI is at

the top of the list. Five years ago, or so pre-COVID if you remember the big conversation, even in Davos was AI is coming so fast.

And we're going to have 30 percent unemployment, because it's going to take everyone's jobs. That was the conversation and I was in many meetings on oh

my God, five years from now, there will be unemployment will be rampant because machines are going to take over everything. And here we are five

years later. That's not the case at all. You know, people will use AI as a tool, and it'll be something that you'll use on your job. It's not going to

really replace you.

STEWART (on camera): With AI, there are the obvious limitations do those concern you?

SIBIO: They do. We actually, as part of our Tech Consulting Group, we've actually put together a small advisory panel of academics and so forth to

make sure that when we're evaluating AI, that we're looking at biases in AI. And I know a lot of companies are doing that governments are doing

that. I think that's important.

STEWART (voice over): Telecoms companies are embracing the technology. Aside from the customer service bots, we're all used to AI is being used to

make networks more automated. Algorithms can spot problems with coverage and order fixes automatically.

Or they can predict spikes in traffic, adjusting bandwidth on the fly. There has been talk of whether AI's impact has been overblown. But the head

of GSMA, which runs Mobile World Congress, says the buzz is no bad thing.

MATS GRANRYD, DIRECTOR GENERAL, GSMA: I think there is a lot of hype. But hype can be good because it drives things forward. And we have spoken about

intelligent connectivity for many years when you were here in 2017 intelligent connectivity was the theme.

And that is really the combination of four things. It is 5G, its IOT, is AI and big data. So the important thing is that stand alone, they might not be

that powerful. When you put them together and you create ecosystems around these different technologies then you have some really powerful activities

going on.

STEWART (voice over): Here in Barcelona, the telecoms are certainly keen to show off those new powers. Wow, 360 degrees of cameras. This is a

Holographic Telepresence from Telephonic. It can capture my image and put me anywhere, whether that's under the sea into a conference call or just

straight to your tablet.

What it does require though, is a lot of data as connections get faster and more widespread mobile data traffic in Europe is surging. GSMA expects that

by 2027, it will have more than trebled from its 2021 levels and that puts pressure on the Telcos themselves. So when it comes to managing all this

extra data, Orange's Chief Technology Officer says AI can help with that too.


MICHAEL TRABBIA, CHIEF TECHNOLOGY AND INNOVATION OFFICER, ORANGE: Every year, data traffic increased by almost 50 percent, which is absolutely

crazy? It means that after 10 years, we have 13 times more traffic. It's not any more. One size fits all connectivity. It's really connectivity that

adapts to each service needs.

We believe AI is probably one of the leading and most disruptive technologies that we see today. So we believe that AI will be everywhere.

And we have a program within a range, which we call AI at scale, to make sure that we can benefit from AI on every part of the business, not only

for the network, or the customer experience, but only the marketing, that we will be able to leverage all the data to improve at the end of the day,

the service that we deliver to our customers.

STEWART (voice over): Analysts have been predicting an AI revolution for years. What could make this time different is the other technologies

scaling up at the same time, from 5G to the Internet of Things. For the mobile sector it's the chance to change the way we interact.

STEWART (on camera): This is all about communication. And do you see AI as revolutionizing just the way that we can connect?

GRANRYD: I think you will see communication as the great enabler. We are the great enablement. You can see the like an onion we are the core and

then you have a whole bunch of different applications and use cases outside of that core.

So AI is just one layer of that which is very important. I mean, how will we otherwise be able to collect all this data make sense of the data help

us make sound decisions based on the IOT based on 5G AI we need it.




STEWART (voice over): Mobile World Congress showcases new technologies that hope to one day change your life from smart phones all the way up to the

hyper loop train. But actually, some of these technologies we already use without even thinking about it. Take this program for example.

If you're watching this, perhaps on social media, there's a high chance you're seeing subtitles. Now maybe those were added by a human like these

ones you see here, but maybe they were generated by software, which immediately transcribes whatever I'm saying, possibly with the odd mistake.

Well, I'm going to meet one British startup which has taken that concept and is applying it to everyday life. This is Dan Scarf, a British

Entrepreneur and the Head of X Ray Glass. His goal is simple but profound, to subtitle the world. And like many big ideas, it came to him almost by


DAN SCARF, CEO XRAI GLASS: So this actually started out with my granddad, which was 97-years-old at the time. I'm from the UK originally. So you can

probably tell from my accent, but I don't live there anymore. And I get to see him as much as I like the Christmas before last I was back in the UK

with him.

He's lost almost all of his hearing now. And he was surrounded by his family unable to engage in conversation. And I thought well hang on. We've

got real time subtitling in Teams and Zoom. We've got these new augmented reality glasses coming out. Why can't we just combine the two together? And

that was the kernel of the idea for X Ray Glass. So we set off on our mission to subtitle the world.

STEWART (voice over): X Ray software provides real time subtitles to users wearing the glasses. This is one support from several deaf charities and is

being used in more than 70 countries. It's also integrating an AI assistance using GPT3 to help a whole new set of users.

SCARF: Your system actually allows you to provide contextual information have over the top of what you've heard.


So you can ask questions about what you've heard. You can ask for summaries of what you've heard and so this then makes it available to people who

might suffer from dyslexia or a whole range of Neuro-diverse conditions where they're, again, not able to understand information.

STEWART (on camera): We're also, of course, here in Spain, I don't know about you, my Spanish.

SCARF: Is so great.

STEWART (on camera): These can be used to translate different languages?

SCARF: They can do real time translation between nine of the world's leading languages. We are just about to release a feature where you will

actually be able to play audio out from the phone. So you will be able to read the subtitles, it will then automatically translate back to the other

language, you'll press a button and it will play out to them. So we're very close to having that.

STEWART (voice over): X Ray subtitles have already left a mark on some of its hard of hearing users.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I'm going to do is I'm going to start a new session and in a minute; you should start to see what I'm saying like appearing as


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God! This is insane.

STEWART (voice over): Now I get to try it out for myself. And a reconstruction courtesy of X Ray can show you what it's like to wear them.

STEWART (on camera): Should we give it a go?

SCARF: I think so. Let's go. So if you pop these glasses--

STEWART (on camera): OK.

SCARF: --that goes behind you--

STEWART (on camera): You were - English speakers? Like the odd line of Italian?

SCARF: Well, let's try with English to begin with. So this is capturing audio from this microphone here. And then hopefully, if the demo gods are

being fine, everything that I'm saying should be hearing subtitles in real time, right in front of you. I can move those subtitles away from you in 3D

space, or I can move them back towards you.

STEWART (on camera): I mean I got that - quite like--

SCARF: Are you - up front?

STEWART (on camera): It's amazing.

STEWART (voice over): X Ray has now teamed up with Qualcomm to reach even more devices. And with AI added to the mix Scarf says the glasses can do a

lot more.

SCARF: What we can also do though is we can say hey, X Ray, can you summarize this conversation for me please?

STEWART (on camera): So if we were having a conversation, my mind - a little bit. I could then ask ChatGPT through this to just summarize the


SCARF: Oh pick out specific pieces of information that you missed, like what was the name of the town we were talking about? What's the name of the

glasses we were talking about, and it will then go and pull that specific piece of inflation

STEWART (on camera): That might be my favorite use case.


STEWART: That's it for this month's episode of "Marketplace Europe". You can find more from us for now though it is goodbye from me and

we'll see you next time.