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First Move with Julia Chatterley

CEO Testifies to save App from Potential U.S. Ban; Bank of England Hikes UK Interest Rates 0.25 Percent; Sheets: Fed is Walking a Tightrope Right Now; Soon: TikTok CEO Fights to stop App from being Banned in U.S.; U.S. Stocks Bounce after Late Day Selloff Wednesday; Prince Lays Wreath at Polish Tomb of Unknown Soldier. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired March 23, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move", fantastic to have you with us for a clash of the titan's edition of the

program, including TikTok versus Congress call it the ultimate TikTok challenge. The CEO of the Chinese social media app Shou Chew will be

testifying on Capitol Hill next hour.

We'll hear from one of the lawmakers set to grill him. Plus, Macron versus the multitude the protests continue this time. It's the nation's biggest

unions rebelling in the first nationwide demonstration. Since deeply unpopular pension reforms were made law.

We are live in Paris for the latest on that and Central Bankers versus inflation and financial contagion, the U.K., Norway, Switzerland and the

Philippines. All raising interest rates today following the Federal Reserve's quarter of a percent hike on Wednesday.

Bankers betting it seem that they can do it all study the banking boats and also tackle their high pricing predicament inflation. I tell you what it

does mean it means choppy waters. U.S. futures are heading higher after Wednesday's wave of weakness in stressed Regional Banks and bigger banks


But as you can see, Europe at this moment is a touch lower. No surprises from Fed Chair Jay Powell meeting market expectations with that quarter of

a percentage point hike, but he also changed the tone on what comes next. Powell very clear about what remains unclear and it's plenty.

And that's to what extent the recent bank failures and turbulence will now weigh on future growth. He suggests banks may now be less willing to lend

and we're talking all banks, let's be clear, not just the weakened ones. They all know that more regulation is likely coming. They have to be

careful more careful with the deposits that they've got.

And also because borrowing money if they don't use those deposits costs more for them too the result, they lend less, how much less could make the

difference between perhaps one more hike from the Fed and no more hikes. Then came the Janet versus Jay moment when they were literally speaking at

exactly the same time and on a critically important topic for current confidence in banks. Just listen to this.


JEROME POWELL, CHAIR OF U.S. FEDERAL RESERVE: These actions demonstrate that all depositors' savings and the banking system are safe.

JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: If not considered or discussed anything having to do with blanket insurance or guarantees of - assets.


CHATTERLEY: OK, so that was Jay Powell reinforcing the implicit assumption that all deposits are protected. Then you have Treasury Secretary Janet

Yellen, giving an explicit pushback that there's actually no discussion of a blanket deposit protection likely to come and what happened World Bank

stocks fell, but my view is nothing changed in the last 24 hours.

Janet also said that the protections will be done on a case by case basis, as we've already seen, let's be clear, but I think the reaction to this

across financial markets shows the fear of deposit outflows is still pretty palpable. We'll discuss all of this later on in the show.

For now, we focus on TikTok and then the next hour the CEO of TikTok is expected to begin giving testimony on Capitol Hill in Washington. He'll

tell lawmakers that the Chinese owned app which claims to have 150 million U.S. users is not a National Security threat and should not be banned.

Vanessa Yurkevich has all the details.


VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): TikTok the wildly popular social media sensation has taken America by storm with nearly half

of all Americans creating, uploading and watching videos. But now the company finds itself in the crosshairs of a political debate.

SHOU CHEW, CEO OF TIKTOK: Hi everyone, its show here. I'm the CEO of TikTok.

YURKEVICH (voice over): CEO Shou Chew announcing his arrival in DC on TikTok, as he gears up to face lawmakers Thursday and a high stakes hearing

amid threats from the White House to ban the app in the U.S. Unless TikTok's Chinese parent company ByteDance sells their stake.

JUSTIN SHERMAN, CEO OF GLOBAL CYBER STRATEGIES: This is quite literally an existential issue for TikTok. This is life or death.

YURKEVICH (voice over): Chew will be grilled on TikTok's perceived threat to U.S. National Security. Legislators have raised concerns over the

Chinese government's ability to use TikTok to spy on Americans and collect their personal data.


The app is already banned on federal devices, and nearly half of all States have banned it on state owned devices.

REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R-TX): In so many instances, it just appears that China is not our friend. Now that you've got this enormously popular and

powerful application that has basically captivated the minds of the next generation of Americans what are they doing with that information?

YURKEVICH (voice over): But Chew have been insistent, China has no influence over the app, and its 150 million U.S. users.

CHEW: The Chinese government has actually never asked us for U.S. user data. And we've said this on the record, that even if we will ask for that

we will not provide that.

YURKEVICH (voice over): But top U.S. Intelligence Officials believe otherwise.

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: This is a tool that is ultimately within the control of the Chinese government. And it to me, it screams out with

National Security concerns.

YURKEVICH (voice over): But there is no public evidence this is happening.

SHERMAN: The government has not provided a smoking gun. But maybe the government doesn't need to provide a smoking gun. It's about that


REP. JAMAAL BOWMAN (D-NY): Why the hysteria and the panic.

YURKEVICH (voice over): Representative Jamaal Bowman hosting TikTok creators at the Capitol just hours before the hearing.

BOWMAN: It poses about the same threat that companies like Facebook and Instagram and YouTube and Twitter pose. So let's not marginalize and target


YURKEVICH (voice over): The Trump Administration tried and failed to ban TikTok in 2020. Several courts ruled had violated the international

Emergency Economic Powers Act, a law the Biden Administration is also up against.

SHERMAN: Does it have any new legal authorities or powers to actually do it? No. And so this is why we come back to we're likely to get a

restriction on TikTok based on what the executive branch can do right now. A complete ban, practically speaking is unlikely at this point.


CHATTERLEY: OK, let's bring in CNN Media Analyst Sara Fischer. Sara, great to have you on the show! And U.S. Congress has proved spectacularly

incapable of tackling its own big social media firms like YouTube and Facebook and Instagram. What is today really about? What do they want to

achieve? And if it's about courting public opinion, they fought a battle on their hands.

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, they do. You know, it was very politically advantageous, especially for Republicans to take a tough stance

on China but the difference being when you're taking stuff, a tough stance on companies like Huawei, that most consumers don't have a direct

relationship with.

It's very different than when you're taking a tough stance on an app like TikTok that's used by 150 million Americans monthly. I think what you're

going to see today is they want to get to the bottom of reports that TikTok has been, you know, using its app to spy on Americans.

Of course, there were reports out last week that the DOJ is investigating TikTok for spying on journalists. There have also been reports that TikTok

has leveraged the algorithm from China in its U.S. App in ways that we wouldn't necessarily approve up here.

For example, there was a 2019 report from the Guardian that TikTok was filtering out hash tag around Tiananmen Square. They're going to want to

probe into some of those reports get an understanding of whether or not this app really does have the best interest of U.S. users.

But to the point of the clip that we heard earlier, it's still an uphill battle. You know, this administration has not pointed to one single major

National Security threat in trying to potentially ban this app. That's why I think we reported this in Axios this morning; their posture is more we

don't necessarily want to ban the app. But we would like for it to be sold to a U.S. company.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, but of course, China has to sign off on that. And the sort of noises, at least from that side is perhaps a ban is easier for them too.

Do you think they actually do something on this area, because one could argue and I acknowledge all the risks of the concerns about misinformation

and manipulation of data?

But one could argue China can go buy the data from a data broker if they want to get access to it. Is this not just a political football for the

tensions with China and actually trying to cover the fact that they simply haven't been able to tackle domestic or international social media


FISCHER: Well, to your first question on whether or not I think something happens, I think we're going to be in limbo for a long time and here's why.

One, we will hear from the courts to make sure that any action by the White House actually can be upheld with law.

Two, your point, the Chinese government has indicated that they don't want this to be sold. They passed an export law in 2020 that sort of protects

their IP and so they don't want in particular the algorithm to be sold to a U.S. company. And then the big elephant in the room is who's going to buy


I mean, TikTok was valued at like 30 billion its dollars in 2020 according to some reports. You know, the markets are not as good as now as they were

then but it's a lot bigger of an app it has bigger ad revenue.


You know the buyers at the time; Microsoft is now having his hands tied with Activision. I have not heard that Walmart is interested. Oracle is its

National Security partner and they're actually not getting clobbered on Wall Street. So they could be a logical buyer but it's not like you're

talking about a billion-dollar company.

So finding a buyer is going to be really challenging and it's not going to be whether or not the government's OK with an IPO instead. So because of

all of those reasons, I think we're going to be in limbo on this issue for a long time. We're going to continue to be talking about it and months from

now, and I don't think it'll be outright banned, then.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was about to say, like with all of these things and with other social media companies. So Sara, you and I will chat again in five

years, and see where we are? Sara Fisher, thank you so much for that. Yes, - this will be closely watched by Officials in China, as we were just

discussing. Marc Stewart joins us on that. Marc, what's the view from the Chinese side? What are you hearing?

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia no surprise, but the response from Beijing has been very pointed. Just days ago, we heard from a government

spokesperson who said that the U.S. is clearly trying to overstep its reach, using National Security, almost as an excuse to hobble and plunder

foreign companies.

At a time when relations between the U.S. and China are already very turbulent, as we have seen in the past if China doesn't like something, it

has this mentality, or this view that if you hurt us, will hurt you back, could this perhaps lead to retaliation by China.

Will China say to the U.S., well, if you're going to ban TikTok, we're going to ban some of American apps on Chinese soil? That's one conversation

I had from an analyst today but then again, Julia, as you were talking with Sara, and as we've discussed throughout the morning.

Even if there is a company to buy TikTok, and even if that money is raised, and even if it's a deal that the CEO wants, the Chinese government could

say, look, the parameters of all of this, this ability for us to control the data, the analytics for us to keep all of that it's far too valuable.

So the Chinese government could perhaps even stop a sale. Those are some of the views we're hearing tonight from Beijing.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, fascinating to see, but obviously, it requires Congress to act first from we know what I think of that. Marc Stewart, thank you so

much for that. And later in the show, we'll hear the view of one of the lawmakers involved in that hearing in around 20-minutes time.

For now, an uncertain outlook for TikTok and for the U.S. economy as well, Fed Chair Jay Powell saying at his Press Conference Wednesday, that global

banking stress could have a profound impact on U.S. lending.

And that then could have a knock on impact to future interest rate policy. Rahel Solomon joins us now. There is a lot to unpack and actually, the

interest rate rises. So the least of it Rahel, what did you make of what he had to say?

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's interesting, Julia, right, because in terms of the interest rate decision, we got exactly what

we were expecting. But what we also got was this acknowledgment that, hey, we know this banking instability that we are in the midst of essentially

will create a tightening and credit conditions, which you and I have talked about essentially acknowledging that is the equivalent of a rate hike.

And so reading between the lines here you have Jay Powell, the Chairman saying, we get it, we've done a lot and we can show you all of the rate

increases over the last rate hiking cycle 475 basis points, or 4.75 percent, over a year's period and so there is the lack of that. But there

is also this tightening that we are likely to see from these banks, and the impact that, that will have the knock on impact.

A Jay Powell essentially saying that credit tightening is expected. But here's the thing, Julia, it's unclear how long and it's unclear how much?

And so a sense of we got it. We've done a lot. Let's wait and see how much of this will essentially do the work for us in terms of cooling demand?

CHATTERLEY: And it really is sort of finger in the wind and watching the data, first and foremost. Rahel, great to have you with us, thank you.

Rahel Solomon, there! Not the only Central Bank taking action. The Bank of England is also following in the U.S. Central Bank's footsteps raising U.K.

interest rates by a quarter of 1 percent too.

The move comes a day after U.K. inflation data showed inflation rising unexpectedly in February to 10.4 percent the pace of rising prices still

stubbornly high. Anna Stewart joins me now. I barely managed to get through all those yeses. Take it from me a quarter of a percentage point rate hike

and inflation says as we said in the last hour, there's simply no choice.

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Yes and this also follows the ECB raising rates last week, the Fed yesterday the Swiss National Bank this morning. So it

felt like it was baked in not least for that inflation report that we got out yesterday which definitely surprised everyone and not in a good way.


10.4 percent for February, which means inflation is actually increasing in the U.K. when it's declining everywhere else. Hopefully that is temporary.

It looks like very much related to food issues largely fruit and vegetable, Julia. Interestingly, economic outlook, the budget that was announced by

the Chancellor last week, this was the first formal budget that U.K. has had for a year that says it'll add 0.3 percent of GDP over the coming


Also GDP expected to come in slightly higher for the second quarter of this year, versus what was expected to be a decline; of course, lots of

attention on what will happen going forwards with rates. No change to the language like we've seen from other Central Banks like the ECB and the Fed.

However, I would say they're saying that they will obviously stick to the inflation target, and that will guide their decisions going forward. But

the market implied path is for a peak at 4.5 percent in August so that does suggest perhaps it's not over yet, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, certainly not over yet, I concur. You know, what also caught my attention. In addition to the chocolate Hobnob biscuits that were

in one of those baskets, which I have to admit that I sincerely miss was an admission from the Governor of the Bank of England.

That they had actually spoken to the San Francisco Fed, which oversee Silicon Valley Bank 18 months to 2 years ago to warn about climate risk and

concentration risk. What more did they have to say about that because when you've got one set of Central Banks or regulators warning another country

or region about those big questions, I think need to be asked?

STEWART: You have a BDI. This was really interesting, a letter from the Governor of the Bank of England to Parliament answering a whole load of

questions largely about the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank, U.K., the U.K. subsidiary, and all of the issues around banking.

And essentially, you know, this was an opportunity for the Governor to say, hey, the U.K. banking sector is resilient. But he had lots of pointed

remarks about the fact that SVB, Silicon Valley Bank did have to have a completely separate U.K. subsidiary to operate here because of capital and

liquidity requirements.

And as you said, he pointed out that over the last 18 to 24 months, the Bank of England was aware, they say, of a concentration risk with loans and

deposits from a concentrated client base in the innovation sector, and that the flag this not only to the bank, but also to the San Francisco Federal


Also a really interesting bit and I'm not sure whether we have it was just where Andrew Bailey also had some thoughts on the U.S. response to the

collapse of Silicon Valley Bank, and the contagion impact, particularly in concern with a guarantee for deposits.

And he has this to say, a blanket guarantee of all depositors is not costless. It reduces the risk sensitivity of a bank's funding, could result

in moral hazard and any costs which ultimately need to be borne by the taxpayer.

And I just saw, I wonder, is he also sending letters to the U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, because of course, yesterday, she ruled out a sort

of big extension of the deposit guarantee. And that felt like a bit of a walk back from comments. We heard from her only a few days ago then earlier

this week.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's funny. It was in response to a question, actually, from one of the lawmakers asking about whether Congress would look at this

and she was immediately you know, defensive and said look, it's not even being discussed, which I think was an important point. But she didn't go

back and say look, case by case basis, which is which is what we've seen.

But yes, to his point, they know it's not costless. Anna and they want to avoid that explicit guarantee at all costs. If you can keep it implicit do

it. Thank you so much for that sharp points as ever. Thank you. We are back after this, stay with CNN.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", the Federal Reserve not letting up on its mission to curb inflation even amid stresses in the banking

sector. It raised interest rates by a quarter of a percentage point on Wednesday in line with many forecasts. And then that's the ninth rate hike

in the last nine meetings. But the Fed Chair signaled the end of that succession of rate increases is now in sight.


POWELL: We believe, however, that events in the banking system over the past two weeks are likely to result in tighter credit conditions for

households and businesses, which would in turn affect economic outcomes. It is too soon to determine the extent of these effects and therefore too soon

to tell how monetary policy should respond.

As a result, we no longer state that we anticipate that ongoing rate increases will be appropriate to quell inflation. Instead, we now

anticipate that some additional policy firming may be appropriate.


CHATTERLEY: Joining us now Nathan Sheets, Global Chief Economist for Citigroup. He also worked at the Federal Reserve in Washington D.C. for 18

years. Nathan, welcome to the show. No one better, I think to discuss this moment with. First question, the end may be in sight of rate hikes have

they finished? What do you think?

NATHAN SHEETS, CHIEF GLOBAL ECONOMIST AT CITIGROUP: Well, Jay Powell and his colleagues really are walking a tightrope here trying to balance their

ongoing concern about inflation, which remains hot against these emergent financial stabilities and banking sector risks.

And my feeling is that, you know, from here, it's going to be touching go in terms of further rate hikes. And really the key question is, how long

lived are the stresses that we're seeing in the financial sector? If they abate relatively quickly as we'd be our baseline expectation, see over the

next 6 or 8 weeks.

Then I'd say yes, we'll probably see a few more rate hikes. On the other hand, if they're longer lived, or the effect saved through a credit crunch,

ended up being more durable than you know this in principle, this might be it for Jay Powell in this episode.

CHATTERLEY: As he alluded to, what comes next is determined by the behavior of banks and not just the 6 or 7 banks, Regional Banks that we've seen

extreme stresses or failures in but all of these banks now who one could argue have had a shot across the bows, more regulation is coming, more

questions over your lending practices and who you're lending to?

The natural assumption surely is for many of these banks there. Now more cautious about whom they lend to? How they lend? And if they're not using

deposits, where they get that money from, which got more expensive in the past two weeks? I mean, there are plenty of unknowns, but I think it's fair

to say, lending standards will tighten across all of these banks.

SHEETS: I think a bottom line for these institutions, and maybe market some more broadly, am the world is looking pretty risky at the moment. And what

do you do in that environment you pull back from risk taking, and I think that means lending standards, as you say, are likely to rise.

It wouldn't surprise me if corresponding to that spreads in markets also increase and credit becomes scarcer to the - that process proceeds.


That will be a significant headwind; the Fed flagged that yesterday including in its statement. We just don't know. We know the sign that it's

going to be negative for growth. We just don't yet know how severe those effects will ultimately prove to be?

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think he was very clear about how unclear things are? And it just puts them in data watching mode. Yes, he was talking at the

same time as Janet Yellen. And I wanted to get your opinion on this, because, as I've already discussed on the show.

And the little comment that she made about not even discussing a blanket guarantee for all deposits, I think was taken out of context. But the

immediate reaction in those regional stocks in the United States and bigger banking stocks, I think, was an important signal that, I think investors in

particular were getting more comfortable with this idea of an implicit backstop to deposits if banks get into trouble.

But the idea that there's never going to be an explicit backstop, added to some of the nervousness Nathan, what's your take on this? Is that

justified? Or we just have to get over this idea that there isn't a need, perhaps, for a blanket protection promise?

SHEETS: I agree with your interpretation. I think Janet Yellen was taken out of context, I think she was saying that Treasury on its own authority

does not have the capacity to provide a blank and guaranteed for the entire system. And to do something like that, even temporarily, would require

support and action from Congress.

That said, was Janet Yellen saying that in certain instances, as institutions face stress, that there may not be some further interventions

and support for liabilities and deposit holders beyond that 250,000 threshold? I think that that remains very much on the table. And that I

also agree with your broader point, that at this stage, it really doesn't look like its necessary.

That the stresses have been concentrated in a handful of medium sized banks, banks with assets of 100 billion to $250 billion. The large banks

still strong and for all intents and purposes at this moment, the smaller banks, we haven't seen any stresses yet and even in those mid-size banks,

it's only a handful. This is not yet a systemic challenge that requires a full blanket guarantee of the entire system.

CHATTERLEY: Right, I'm in danger of famous last words, criticism here, but you were at the Fed during the financial crisis. So you have the experience

of both what we're seeing today. But also what we saw then is perhaps the bigger point and the bigger takeaway, actually, that the relative

resilience of the financial system to an extraordinarily swift and impactful set of rate hikes and actually in a resilient U.S. economy too in

the face of that as well.

SHEETS: I think resilience is a key word, I think, as you emphasize the underlying economic resilience. But the U.S. and frankly, the global

economy, over the last several years, have been extraordinary. And I think we are also reaping benefits from a decade long effort to strengthen the

banking system.

The banks now have more capital than they had 10 or 15 years ago, the quality of regulation is much stronger. And I think that does leave much of

the banking system in a better place. Now, where we also see maybe some places where it could be further enhanced absolutely.

And I think that in coming months, we're likely to see the Fed and Congress reflect on this episode, and make some modifications in some of the

features of regulation, particularly for some of those mid-sized banks.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and I think that's virtually a given now. One of the things that has been discussed on the show this week, and it was Jason

Furman, Former, sort of Advisor to President Obama. He said that actually the biggest danger here is to encourage the rate cuts that are now being

priced in by investors.

And Jay Powell sort of hinted to that too, and said, look, we're not talking about rate cuts. In your mind, Nathan barring some unforeseen black

swan event cans we and should we be ruling out rate cut this year?


SHEETS: Yesterday in the press conference, I think Jay Powell emphasized enormous uncertainties about a broad swath of issues. But there was one

point in which he was absolutely crystal clear and it was when he was asked about rate cuts going forward.

That he was categorical that if the forecast was anywhere close to what they're expecting, we shouldn't be projecting and penciling in rate cuts

for 2023.

CHATTERLEY: And you agree?

SHEETS: You know, we can prepay how many more hikes but Todd says I think in the Feds thinking, at least at this stage, is a bridge too far.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, cuts a fairy tale, I think, at least as far as we're concerned today. Nathan great to chat to you! Nathan Sheets, Global Chief

Economist for Citigroup there great to get your thoughts! We're back after this stay with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! To live at pictures of Washington D.C. where in around half an hour's time the CEO of TikTok will be giving testimony to

lawmakers amid fears that the app could be used to spy on American citizens or even manipulate them with disinformation.

Earlier today, I spoke to your House Democratic Representative Debbie Dingell. I pointed out that the CEO is going to say look, he's never given

data to China and he never will. The question is what she believes him.


REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Not sure to be perfectly frank. I think we all of us, I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat, are very concerned

about the kind of data that China has to accessing TikTok and I have met with CEO of TikTok.


I'm clearly looking forward to this hearing this morning and hearing him answer questions. But I think that we've got a real problem period with

privacy in this country and around the world to all of these social media apps. And I have real concern over how much data China already has on

Americans through the TikTok app, and quite frankly, could have had access to other apps as well.

CHATTERLEY (on camera): I think there's a belief that Chinese companies are and can be private, but when it comes to national security they become an

arm, effectively of the Chinese government and to your point that means they can weaponize American data, they can use algorithms to push in

disinformation. They can ban anti-Chinese content. I mean, these are all good reasons for a ban. Would you agree?

DINGELL: I think that there are certainly causes that we need to look at. I think they become national security issues. And let's be very clear, I'm

been around a while I'm seasoned. I was in business for 30 years within the auto industry; it would be almost 35 before I ran for Congress.

And I know what it's like to do business in China, and an American company is not allowed to do business in China without having a Chinese partner. So

your business isn't separate over there. That's just a reality when I'm answering that question.

And it's been very interesting just the last couple of weeks while I was home, we were out for almost 12 days, asking young children I mean here's

an anecdotal story. The first time I heard the words, what you think about Project Willow was from a second grader, now Project Willow is the drilling

project in Alaska.

But if you ask most adults, they talk about it as drilling in Alaska. But over the period of last 12 days, I probably have been asked by 10 or 12,

young people aging from the second grader who first asked it to high schools, what I think of Project Willow, and it's from TikTok.

They've heard about it from TikTok, and they very clearly have certain perspectives on it. Now, I'm very encouraged that such that young people

are concerned about our environment or communicating it. But when you talk to them, you also see that they're getting other very interesting pieces of

information, some of which could be called misinformation. And it is very clear the impact that the social media apps are having on our young


CHATTERLEY (on camera): I mean there are so many comments I could make there. The first thing that comes to mind and I totally accept the point

about the concerns about what content is doing to young people and beyond.

But you also have a situation where I think by a margin of two to one young people and teenagers are saying they want to keep this app. They think

you're going down the wrong path with this, and they want to keep it.

And the other point, I think to make is, would a ban even be constitutional this right? Would it not be in some quarters considered un-American and not

allowing Americans to have freedom of expression?

DINGELL: I do believe we've got to protect our freedom of speech which is why I've been very careful to study this issue to spend the time. But it is

interesting yesterday I had a group of high school students that were visiting the Capitol.

And I ended up having a 20 minute discussion with them about TikTok and think we're a much divided group about what they thought should happen with

TikTok. Some of them are very aware that they're being shown content that they believe is trying to color their opinion of things, how they think

about things.

They're not sure that they're seeing all kinds of different one young man said, I'm not sure I'm seeing all the different things I have. I'm not sure

that they're not trying to make me think a certain way. I found that interesting.

It was also a young - that was for sure did not want to have Tech ban. But I do believe that we need to become much more aware of our national

security. I think young people have no idea of the amount of privacy that we have to simply given away about ourselves.

How much data is being collected on every individual, and it is a national security issue. And I think we're entering new times on our nation's

security, but I know it's one of my major responsibilities as a policy maker to protect this country.

CHATTERLEY (on camera): I think the counter to this would be that China could buy data if it wanted to from data brokers, but I wonder whether

TikTok has just become a sort of political football in the sense with the tensions between the United States and China.


And we could have substituted the word TikTok for Facebook or Twitter or YouTube. And actually, this simply represents a failure by Congress to do

anything to restrain the social media giants, whether they're international or domestic, is that fair criticism?

DINGELL: That is fair criticism, your past privacy legislation, you know, the fact of the matter, it's the cats out of the bag. We have given away so

much data about ourselves, I won't even I mean, to this point, I won't join clear, because I don't want them having that kind of biometric information

about me.

There are certain things that I still do to try to protect my privacy, because I just don't want people knowing it, you know, it's a safety issue

when people can track where you are. But our own young kids don't even realize how much information is being collected on them their patterns,

their behavior, what people are learning about them. They're just going to follow them the whole life.

CHATTERLEY (on camera): Yes. And again, I would say it's Congress's job to do a better job of informing them and restraining these companies. We shall

see what today brings. Representative, I just want to ask you, based on what we've seen over the past couple of weeks.

What kind of conversations because I'm sure you're having them with banks, in your localities, with individuals, perhaps that are concerned about the

safety of the banks and how they're going to behave going forward.

And I'm talking specifically about potential greater restrictions on lending, and perhaps not giving the cash so willingly, that they were to

individuals and businesses that want it? How worried are you?

DINGELL: So I've talked too many of my banks. And I do believe that we've got to reassure consumers, worldwide customers that we have a strong

banking system, that sound, it's not in danger of collapse that does mean that they need to be better regulated.

You know, my husband, actually, it was my father in law, that helped initially passed something called Glass - which was repealed. And a phrase

that has become well known around the world is that you will create a bank too big to fail.

Those were the words of my husband, when we repealed Glass --. I'm very concerned about the banks, the banks behaviors, the kinds of regulations

that we are putting on them. We have got to assure customers and consumers that our banks are sound.

Our financial system sound that's going to require tighter regulation, and making sure we're doing what we need to do to keep banks sound that is more

important than people who can't afford credit, getting credit it shouldn't be getting aren't going to be able to meet.

CHATTERELY (on camera): Would you be in favor of a rising of the FDIC insurance limit above $250,000, if necessary, simply to ensure the

confidence in the system that you're talking about that every depositor of all shape and size is protected?

DINGELL: I think that we have to look at that number. I don't think that we can insure unlimited amounts of money. We that - that cap were set some

time ago so it may require a rising of that cap but I am not someone that's against regulation of banks, because I think it's the backbone of our

economy. And it requires confidence. And it requires serious strong management.

CHATTERLEY (on camera): Yes, these things can keep--

DINGELL: That's part of the problem that we have right now is complex in some of the businesses the banks are doing. They want to get interest from

loaning money. So are we loaning money to people that we shouldn't be?

How are we making sure that depositors who have money in their bank know that their money is going to be safe and the banks backed up the assets

that they need to protect those deposits.

CHATTERLEY (on camera): Yes, and they don't have to be an equity analyst to be able to understand what's going on at the bank. They should just be able

to believe that those deposits are safe. I tell you what this conversation proves you're going to have a busy few months, certainly, if not more.

Representative, thank you for your time, great to chat to you!


CHATTERLEY: Now from the testimony of the TikTok CEO to U.S. stocks putting on a better show, take a look. We are firmer after Wednesday's 1.5 percent

drop that was I think a knee jerk response actually to comments from Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen who said she's not discussed blanket

protection for U.S. bank deposits above $250,000.

I think investors and do have more contexts as we've already talked about on the show, and regional banks are bouncing back as a result but it does

underscore the ongoing nervousness.


Now from regional banks to central banks a global rate hike tidal wave today including a quarter of a point rise from the Bank of England its 11th

straight move. The Swiss Central Bank meanwhile, also boldly hiking by half a percentage point, despite all the weekend drama where UBS ended up buying

Credit Swiss that merger by the way created a bank some twice the size of the Swiss economy.

Maybe they should be setting interest rates instead of the central bank anyway, coming up here on "First Move", fresh protests across France over

pension reform our live report from Paris next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Into new pension tide protests across France, powerful workers union staging their first nationwide strike

since the government pushed through pension reform without a vote in Parliament, and thereby raising the retirement age to 64.

Melissa Bell joins us live from Paris. Melissa, and those protests as I think only inflamed by Emmanuel Macron. The President's decision and

comments this week to say look, I'm not changing my mind.

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I think they really further fanned the fuel of the anger that you can see expressed here today.

Let me just show you. Today the crowds as they prepare to march, we're just getting our first hint of the smell of tear gas.

And this is something we really expected. First of all, that the numbers on the streets of Paris and other French cities would be pretty big today,

given the spontaneous protests we've seen these last few days, given the determination of the unions, so united on this issue to make their anger


Especially as you suggest, after the words of Emmanuel Macron, who spoke not only towards the termination, to see this reform through so the age

overtime in France is raised from 62 to 64 by the end of the year?

But also speaking to the unrest that we've seen and saying that no flare ups will be tolerated. They will crack down on them and ensure that French

life goes back to normal as quickly as it can despite the attacks of some to block it.


It isn't just the people the numbers that you'll see on the streets here today, Julia. Today it is, of course, those blockages that we're seeing,

again, petrol refineries, oil depots. And these are having, of course, an impact already in petrol stations with queues beginning to form after these

many weeks of protests.

Here in Paris, you're also see the signs of that discontent are in the shape of the garbage that still piled high, and so many of the French

capitalist streets. And then there is, of course, the amount of people that they'll manage to get out today.

Their aim really is Julia even though the government said it's going to push this through, even though they've now gone through without a vote, and

they'll be expected to become law, that somehow by making life as difficult as they can for the government.

They can force it back to the negotiating table. What we're likely to hear by the end of today is not just the figures out on the streets, but what

the next day of action will be both in terms of protests and strikes, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, determined to continue to push this. Mesilla Bell thank you so much for that! All right still to come on "First Move", a Prince in

Poland, and all show of support for displaced Ukrainians and troops all the details next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! Prince William out and about on the second day of his surprise visit to Poland earlier he met with the

Polish President and spoke of the need to continue offering support to the people of Ukraine.

He laid a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier a Monument of Polish soldiers who have died in conflict. The Prince also spoke with young

Ukrainians who talked about their experience of resettling in Poland after fleeing the war in their own country.

Max Foster joins us now. Max an important show of support and solidarity but also underscoring that the Royal Family are prepared really to take a

stance and then for it to be seen on the war in Ukraine?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so this trip is about Ukraine, but it's in Poland. And it's about how Poland has been supporting Ukraine.

He's here the first time on a big foreign tour as Prince of Wales.

And it's interesting to see how that elevated title is something that he's going to clearly use in some sort of global statesman type role, defending

and promoting western values of freedom and democracy. Because that's what he's been doing throughout these two days.

He was here at this food hall to meet those young Ukrainians who came over here. I spoke to a couple of them afterwards and they were relaying what it

was like for them to leave their country. It's been amazing the support they've had here.

But it's still very hard to get up every day, knowing that their country is being destroyed or part of the country is being destroyed at this point.

And William basically wants the world to continue hearing how Poland is supporting something like 1.5 million Ukrainians here.

He went to see the President, President Duda that was all about thanking him and the people of Poland for that support. We talked yesterday about

how he also thanked Polish troops for defending and supporting those Ukrainian freedoms.


So it's been interesting to see how he's used this role use this trip to Poland. I'm afraid really throwing himself into a what is a, you know, a

very politically sensitive story, of course, in some parts of the world, but as far as the UK and Poland is concerned, he's basically saying we're

right behind Ukraine and he's using his profile to get that message out.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and we should continue to watch his ongoing meetings and visits there. Max, great to have you with us, thank you! Max Foster, OK and

that just about wraps up the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages you can search for

@jchatterleycnn. In the meantime, "Connect the World" is up next, and I'll see you tomorrow.