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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Oil Prices Surge after Surprise Production Cuts by OPEC Plus; Suspected Spy Balloon able to Transmit back to Beijing; Taiwan's President Expected to meet with U.S. House Speaker; Coming Soon: Lab-Grown Shrimp from Singapore; Energy Stocks Jump after Surprise Production cut by OPEC Plus; Parisians Vote to Rid Streets of Electric Scooters. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired April 03, 2023 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNNI HOST: A warm welcome to "First Move" this Monday. I hope you had a great weekend or a fantastic start to the week, wherever
you're joining us from its good to be with you for the next hour.
Coming up, a surprise move by OPEC Plus, the oil producers group saying they'll cut output by more than 1 million barrels a day from next month. As
you would expect and as you can see in front of you all prices are surging on the news, we'll discuss the implications and what it means for global
inflation very shortly?
Plus, a bombing suspect arrested; the latest on the explosion in St. Petersburg that killed a prominent Russian military blogger. And in just a
few hours time too Former President Donald Trump expected to land here in New York, the first time in American history that a President has faced
And last but most definitely not least the world's first lab grown shrimp? Yes, you heard me the CEO of Shiok meets with her ambitious plans to reduce
farming and fishing. In the meantime investors also fishing for returns on the first trading day of the second quarter the NASDAQ Futures as you can
But what a performance from the first quarter; they fell hook line and sinker for a storming 17 percent rally for the tech heavy index. So giving
a little bit back today, at least pre market we shall see what happens it's best quarterly gain though in fact, in more than two years shrugging off
banking sector volatility and in fact, benefiting from it.
Higher market volatility meant lower interest rate expectations, and lower interest rate expectations are good for tech stocks and we certainly saw
that. And then in the meantime an upbeat mood across Asian markets earlier Monday too Tokyo, Hong Kong and Shanghai all higher boosted by energy
stocks as you would expect.
And that brings us back to that output reduction from OPEC Plus, which is where we begin today's show. Anna Stewart joins us now with all the
details. Anna, the observation straight away from me not only the knee jerk reaction in oil markets, but also this is the largest OPEC members taking
this decision and therefore more likely to adhere to the cuts that they promised.
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And we also had that element of surprise, didn't we? This coming on a weekend not during an OPEC meeting itself so I
think that surprise has also caught the markets off guard.
And this comes despite the fact that China oil hungry China, of course has come back to the market in full since ending its zero-COVID policy. So in
terms of demand for oil that has increased since the last output cut in October, so we are seeing prices much higher this morning.
I think they were above 8 percent higher when they open this morning, they come back a little bit some analysts saying this morning that they could
hit $100 a barrel by the end of the year. And we can show you where those cuts fall as you see the big players obviously taking the biggest cut Saudi
Arabia opting to take 500,000 barrels per day off the market.
Russia extending its cut that already existed, we were largely expecting that and also big cuts from players like the UAE, Kuwait, and Iraq overall
more than 1.6 million barrels off the market. So this speaks to the fact that the cartel clearly wanting to put a floor under prices.
But also I think aren't that worried in terms of market share. And I wonder whether that's to do with U.S. shale output slowing, and also looking at
those U.S. strategic reserves, which are now at the lowest level since 1983 the U.S. still hasn't bought oil back to fill up its reserves, which I
think also feeds into this story.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, there are so many elements here to discuss and you can go in more depth about any of these as you please. But I do think
you'll point about the fact that this perhaps is a very different moment than the cut that we saw back in October.
And let's be clear, particularly in the United States, there was a lot of noise and disgruntled commentary about that. And yet, we did see oil prices
fall. They match the growth slowdown that we were seeing this time around; perhaps the story's a little bit different. What does it mean for global
inflation? I think that's the big question now.
STEWART: Well, the story might be slightly different. But the U.S. response was very much the same from the White House Spokesperson from the National
Security Council saying they think it's inadvisable given market uncertainty and it does really muddy that outlook, doesn't it for economic
growth for inflation, given so much hinges really on energy prices?
And we're looking at whether it's the Federal Reserve, the ECB in Brussels, and the Bank of England over here, all looking to come to the end of their
rate rises. That hinges on inflation and energy is such a big part of that. So it has really complicated that picture. And I think for anyone who is
already struggling with inflation, the cost of living crisis, the cost of loans of debt of mortgages, this potentially isn't really that good news.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think we spoke to the Head of the International Energy Agency in light of that cut in or the cut announcement in October of last
And I think he described it as unhelpful, which I think was perhaps appropriately said yes. Anna Stewart, thank you so much for that.
All right, Russia says Ukraine may be behind the murder of the pro-Kremlin military blogger known as Vladlen Tatarsky. He was killed in an explosion
at St. Petersburg Cafe on Sunday. Authorities say they have detained a female suspect Vladlen Tatarsky. They say she was working with Kyiv. You
can see her here in the cafe before the explosion.
Clare Sebastian joins us now. Clare, what more do we know about this female suspect involved? I read earlier this morning that she attended one of the
protests at the start of the war in Ukraine. What more can you tell us?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that is being reported Julia by Russian state media that she was in fact at a protest on the very first day
of the war February 24th, 2022, and was arrested and reportedly even spent some time a few days in jail because of that.
So potentially an anti-war activism, some anti-war activism in her past we also know about her she's 26-years-old. She's a native of St. Petersburg,
arrested, reportedly, earlier today in an apartment that she was renting in St. Petersburg.
She has appeared now in a video which we're not going to show you released by the Russian Interior Ministry, potentially because it could have been
extracted under duress. We just don't know at this stage. But she - it was a 24 second video where she's being questioned by a male voice says that
she was at the scene where Vladlen Tatarsky this blogger was attending an event, was giving an event that she gave him a figurine and it exploded.
She was then asked who gave her that figurine and she declined to talk about that? So strange, bizarre video we don't exactly know the
circumstances of that yet. And obviously, we're not showing that to you. But obviously this is also very political Julia.
This is happening in the context of the war in Ukraine the Russian authorities, including the Kremlin Spokesman, blaming Ukraine for this.
Dmitry Peskov say, you know, they have been linked with terrorist activities in past. They've been killing people since 2014 he said and
justified the military operation because of those that this is why we're carrying out this special military operation in Ukraine.
But of course, this has happened this was an attack in Russia's Second city a pretty major attack more than 30 people injured alongside that one death,
given the amount of resources that Russia is now piling into its national security they clearly cannot let this one lie Julia.
CHATTERLEY: No, certainly not. Any further headlines on that we will bring them to you for now Clare Sebastian, thank you so much for that. Now,
Finland will officially become a NATO member on Tuesday, the country's President Sauli Niinisto will travel to Brussels for a session ceremony and
meeting with NATO Chief Jens Stoltenberg.
The country submitted a joint application for membership with Sweden in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Sweden's bid has been stalled amid
opposition from both Hungary and Turkey. And then in the meantime, the Head of the Russian Mercenary Group, Wagner says a Russian flag has been raised
on the battlefield in Bakhmut, in memory of Vladlen Tatarsky the Russian military bloggers who we were just describing killed in an explosion in St.
Yevgeny Prigozhin made the comments in a video reportedly filmed in the city. CNN could not immediately confirm his location. Prigozhin also claims
Bakhmut has been taken something Ukraine denies. President Zelenskyy said the fighting there was "Especially hot".
Ben Wedeman joins us now from Eastern Ukraine. Ben, great to have you with us! It's not the first time that the Head of the Wagner Group has suggested
that they are now in control of Bakhmut but of course, stringent denials still from the Ukrainians, what more can we glean?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he did say that Bakhmut is in legal terms, and those are the words he used, has fallen, but
it's not altogether clear what he means by that? He did raise this flag in the dark in Bakhmut, so there's no way anybody can locate it.
Now the Ukrainians have responded saying that Bakhmut and this is the word - in the words of the Spokesman for Ukrainian forces in the Eastern part of
the country, he said Bakhmut is Ukrainian. And they the Russians have not captured anything, and are very far from bringing that to be so clearly the
Ukrainians flatly denying it.
We understand that perhaps the Ukrainians still controlled 35 maybe 40 percent of the city overnight, or rather, yesterday, there were more than
20 Russian attacks on Ukrainian positions according to the same Ukrainian Army Spokesman.
Now it's difficult for us to confirm any of this because since the 21st of February Bakhmut has been a red zone declared by the Ukrainian military.
Journalists are not allowed in the city, unlike, for instance, in January when we were going in almost every day.
Now clearly the Russians are desperate to achieve some sort of victory after their prolonged winter offensive that doesn't really seem to have
accomplished much, except for taking part of Bakhmut, but not all of it. And it appears that at this point, they may be slowing down their
operations and preparing defensive positions in anticipation for a much talked about Ukrainian spring offensive, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Ben Wedeman there in Eastern Ukraine. Thank you so much for that. OK, first TikTok in the spotlight now Pinduoduo, one of China's most
popular shopping apps has been suspended by Google while it investigates possible malware use to exploit vulnerabilities on users smartphones,
Kristie Lu Stout has more.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In China Pinduoduo is an E-commerce heavyweight. It broke the dominance of Alibaba and JD thanks to
its bargain bin prices a social shopping model that encourages people to buy with friends, and a focus on lower income rural users. The app has more
than 750 million monthly users in China, and the app is now under fire over malware.
STOUT (on camera): Malware is short for malicious software, and CNN has spoken to an array of cybersecurity experts who say that they have
identified malware and versions of Pinduoduo.
MIKKO HYPPONEN, CHIEF RESEARCH OFFICER, WITHSECURE: This is highly unusual, and it is pretty damning for Pinduoduo.
SHARAT SINHA, APAC PRESIDENT, CHECK POINT: We found that it uses techniques to get extended functionality.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've never seen anything like that before.
STOUT (voice over): Cyber experts say the malware allows Pinduoduo to bypass user cell phone security monitor activities on other apps, check
notifications, read private messages and change settings. And once installed, it is difficult to delete. The app can also obtain user data
like this photo of a beloved pet taken from a user's album.
HYPPONEN: Well, we have to underline the fact that this isn't a problem for users in the West; people are using these third party app stores inside
Mainland China. And that's where the problem was, and that's where users should be worried about this.
STOUT (voice over): In March, Google suspended Pinduoduo from its Play Store after finding malware versions of the app. In his statement, Google
said we have suspended the play version of the app for security concerns while we continue our investigation. Pinduoduo said it rejects the
speculation and accusation that Pinduoduo app is malicious just from a generic and non-conclusive response from Google.
HYPPONEN: Our team has reverse engineered the code and we can confirm that it tries to escalate rights. It tries to gain access to things normal apps
wouldn't be able to do on Android phones.
STOUT (voice over): CNN also spoke to a Pinduoduo employee who says the company in 2020 set up a team of about 100 engineers and product managers
to dig for vulnerabilities in Android phones and develop ways to exploit them and make a profit.
Speaking anonymously for fear of reprisals the sources the team was disbanded on March 7th, with many told it would be transferred to its
sister app Temu but a core group of 20 people remain. Pinduoduo's Parent Company PDD Holdings did not respond to CNN requests for comment.
The allegations come as PDD pushes beyond China with Temu which sells cut grade Chinese products to mainly U.S. customers. It launched in September
it quickly became the most downloaded app in the U.S.
SHAWN CHANG, FOUNDER & CEO, HARDENEDVAULT: --Pinduoduo can release something like you know, like the full disclosure of the how did this
incident happened? Probably before that we shouldn't trust any applications from Pinduoduo.
STOUT (voice over): Temu is still available to download on Google Play. But the suspension of its sister up Pinduoduo and the evidence of malware are
all casting a cloud on the NASDAQ listed company at a time of heightened tension and security concerns over tech that's made in China, Kristie Lu
stout CNN, Hong Kong.
CHATTERLEY: And we're learning more about the suspected Chinese spy balloon that flew over the United States back in February. A source tells CNN the
balloon was able to collect images from U.S. military sites and transmit information back to Beijing in real time.
They said U.S. experts still do not know whether the Chinese government had the ability to wipe the balloon's data. Officials say the U.S. knew what
the balloon's path would be and authorities were able to protect sensitive sites and sensors some signals before the balloon could pick them up.
CHATTERLEY: The FBI is still examining the balloon but officials have learned how it was powered and also designed. OK, coming up on the show,
surprise OPEC supply cuts complicate the global fight against inflation. We'll have more on the energy squeeze when we return. And New York gears up
for Trump's time in court, Political Strategist Greg Valliere joins us to tell us just how much it really matters, that's next?
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! And to some kind of history in the making just hours from now Former President Donald Trump is set to
return to New York to face criminal charges. This will be the first time in U.S. history that an ex-president will be arraigned in court.
Later today the judges expected to decide too whether he'll allow cameras inside the courtroom. And here's look at some pictures taken over the
weekend with the Former President spotted waving to supporters. Paula Reid has a look ahead.
PAULA REID, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Former President Donald Trump is expected to arrive in New York Monday afternoon ahead of what will be
the first ever arraignment of a Former President of the United States. Over the weekend his legal team was on the attack.
JOE TACOPINA, ATTORNEY FOR FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The team will look at every potential issue that we will be able to challenge and we will
challenge and of course I very much anticipated motion to dismiss coming because there's no law that fits this.
REID (voice over): But the charges against Trump have not yet been revealed even to his lawyers, and will only be unsealed Tuesday unless the judge
agrees to grant a request made by several media outlets, including CNN to unseal it sooner.
CNN has learned the charges include more than 30 counts related to business fraud. A grand jury returned an indictment Thursday after a years' long
probe into a hush money payment made to adult film star stormy Daniels in the days leading up to the 2016 election.
Trump has gone on the offense attacking District Attorney Alvin Bragg calling him corrupt claiming Bragg is using a venue where it is impossible
for him to get a fair trial. And as he has done before even going after the judge who will oversee this case, claiming he hates him and alleging he
treated his companies viciously in a prior case.
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: It's deeply ironic that a person who spent a good part of his four years in the White House
trying to weaponize the Justice Department, against his political enemies, is now saying he's the victim of persecution. It's sort of what comes
around goes around.
REID (voice over): Security preparations are underway for Trump's initial appearance in this Manhattan Courthouse. He is expected to be
fingerprinted. But it's not clear if you will have a mug shot? Sources tell CNN amid concerns it could leak in violation of state law. And sources tell
CNN Trump is keeping track of who is publicly supporting him?
BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: A case based again on what's being reported the case lacks any legal basis. It's
pursuing somebody on - there's nothing inherently wrong or illegal about making a hush payment.
REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): We're not dealing with a blind - blindfolded Lady Justice in this situation, we're dealing with a political prosecutor, who
has stated that he is going after President Trump.
CHATTERLEY: And joining us now Greg Valliere, Chief U.S. Policy Strategist at AGF Investments. Oh, Greg, there are so many things, important things
that we should and could be discussing at this moment. But we'll start with this. Your note today says the circus is in town. What kind of circus are
GREG VALLIERE, CHIEF U.S. POLICY STRATEGIST, AGF INVESTMENTS: Oh, it's going to be quite a show. I'm sure the ratings will be great. Donald
Trump's numbers have gone way up. He's ahead by 30 percent against DeSantis Julia. So you've got a circus that will help Trump rather than hurt him.
CHATTERLEY: Wow! I mean, this is important, Greg, what we're saying is a sympathy vote, a popularity vote arguably means that it's increasing the
likelihood that he becomes the nominee for the Republican Party for the election in 2024. Does that mean also that it's less likely, therefore that
the Republicans win the election?
VALLIERE: Well, that's a great point. And I think that while Trump looks like he's the front runner to win the nomination, winning the general
election is another story unless we forget, there were three other big, big cases to come. Taking documents out of the White House, the Georgia vote,
of course, and obviously, January 6th so this, in my opinion, based on what's been reported, this is the weakest of the four cases.
CHATTERLEY: And just to remind my viewers we're looking at I could it may or may not be the Former President's plane, but I think it's clear that it
is that's waiting for him there in West Palm Beach, waiting to bring him to New York.
The point that you made I think about these charges, and we still don't know what these charges are, versus some of the other cases that are likely
pending against him and will come up in the near future is that I think there's a general consensus actually, that this one, and these - charges
are going to be relatively weak, that sympathy vote that he appears to be getting tied to this. Do you think that dissipates to some degree when we
start to see some of the other charges potentially appear against him?
VALLIERE: That's a very good point. And I think while this is weak, and it's based on testimony from a convicted felon, the next three cases are,
in my opinion, a lot more substantive. And maybe this political frenzy that Donald Trump has been wronged, will get a lot more serious when we see for
example, how he tried to manipulate the vote in Georgia, or what he did on January 6th, then it gets a lot more serious.
CHATTERLEY: And then potentially Trump fatigue kicks in?
VALLIERE: Potentially, but it is a circus right now. I mean, no one's talking about the price of oil or Friday's unemployment report. It's so -
it's all Trump - all Trump all the time and that's the way he likes it.
CHATTERLEY: I am. Let's talk about that decision from OPEC Plus to further restrict supplies, it got, as you would expect a similar kind of response
from the White House that we saw back in October and yet, you know, the White House complained and then oil prices came down despite that cut. What
do you make of this one?
VALLIERE: I think in the short run today, obviously, the price of oil is higher, and it may be higher for the next few days. But if in fact, the
U.S. economy is starting to soften, not sure about that, but it looks like it may be starting to soften, then the price of oil may not go up by much
more might start to level off, maybe even go down.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, we've already got the knee jerk reactions of analysts talking about $100 oil. But the uncertainty here I think is great,
particularly on the economic outlook and anything else at this moment. We shall see.
One of the other things to look ahead to this week the President of Taiwan back in the United States later on this week, set to meet with House
Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Greg very important for Taiwan, equally, I think focused upon and watched in China.
VALLIERE: Absolutely Julia. I think that this could annoy the Chinese to a level close to what happened with Nancy Pelosi went last August?
The Chinese were very upset. They had aggressive military exercises kept everybody on edge. And I think if the President of Taiwan dos meet with
McCarthy and many of McCarthy's allies out in California later this week, I think it will be this still another reason to feel that U.S. China
relations are going to stay pretty rocky for quite a while.
VALLIERE: I'm sorry.
CHATTERLEY: Do you think there will be consequences? I sort of looked at the trading relationship and what still exists?
CHATTERLEY: In terms of restrictions?
VALLIERE: I do. There were more trade restrictions over the weekend.
VALLIERE: There may be more coming, the Trump imposed sanctions will not be lifted. And McCarthy has a committee as you know, forum to look at alleged
action by China that is not very - not very good. So I think that you could see even more trade consequences not less.
CHATTERLEY: And on the U.S. side is a TikTok ban all but given?
VALLIERE: I think it probably will happen. There's still a chance of a last minute reprieve but I think that it will get banned at some point. Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Greg, great to chat to you! We at least talked about other things as well, plenty of important things to discuss in addition. Greg
Valliere, Chief U.S. Policy Strategist at AGF Investments thank you, more "First Move" after this!
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! I think most of us are familiar with the concept of lab grown meat. Well now one firm wants to put lab
grown seafood onto our dinner plates within a matter of years. You're actually looking at a selection of dishes from Shiok Meats, which grows
Shrimp, or prawn from cells rather than requiring traditional mass farming and then fishing.
The company sees it's close to getting regulatory approval to sell their lab grown product in Singapore, with the aim of entering restaurants by the
middle of next year. That would give food fans a cruelty free and more sustainable seafood alternative. Here to discuss it Sandhya Sriram is the
CEO and Co-Founder of Shiok Meats, and she joins us now. Sandhya, fantastic to have you on the show. Just start by explaining the vision?
SANDHYA SRIRAM, THE CEO AND CO FOUNDER OF SHIOK MEATS: Sure, pleasure to be here. Thank you. So I think you covered it, the idea was to not use
traditional methods or not having to go into the oceans, or setup large scale shrimp, or lobster or crab farms.
And so we work on shellfish or crustaceans, we extract stem cells from them, and we make the meat that we eat, not the shell, the head, the eyes,
just the meat inside that we want to eat. And the whole vision is to provide sustainable food cruelty free, nutritious and delicious for the
mass population that we are and that will grow into in the next couple of decades.
CHATTERLEY: OK, you make it sound so easy. The science part that is. Talk to me about the complexity of that the ability to scale up how long it
takes? And I think the first thing I wrote was what about chemicals, hormones, additives, just in the process of trying to create this and
SRIRAM: For sure, I mean, I can give you a first short version of it. So what we do essentially is we take muscle or fat stem cells that are
essentially what your meat is made up of. So if you take a piece of shrimp, and you d-shell it and d-rein it, the meat inside is just pure muscle, and
maybe fat in lobster and crab, but in shrimp, its pure muscle.
So we take the stem cells, and these stem cells are like cell zero of an animal. So they're like the bird cell of any organ any tissue. So we take
the stem cells outside of the animal's body and these cells have an amazing capability to grow outside of the animal's body.
Because we mimic the surrounding two feel, makes them sort of trick them into thinking that they're still inside the animal. So these cells then
start forming the muscle outside of the animal's body in a large stainless steel tank called a bioreactor or a fermented.
Much like a brewery but instead of beer, you're sort of brewing seafood and meats here. And how we do that is by feeding these stem cells with
nutrients and that's where your question about chemicals and hormones and all that comes in.
So one of the largest codes that we have crafted at Shiok Meats is not using any hormones or chemicals, or any of the animal serums or any
extracts from animals for this. This is called a nutrient mix or a nutrient broth much like a soup for the cells to grow in, and a nutritional sort of
a protein shake.
It's made up of proteins, carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, and all of that. And we extract all of these ingredients from plants. And we grow this
liquid medium along with the cells. And in about four to six weeks, we get real shrimp meat real crab or lobster meat. This is sort of the shortened
version of it.
Of course, to answer your question on scale, we are not there yet. I think the industry is less than a decade old, the whole cultured lab grown
cultivated industry. So we are all trying to scale up our technology.
I would say majority of the companies that started in the last, let's say five to seven years, including ours are at a stage where we can produce
small quantities of it in smaller kilograms or pounds. But we are all aiming to get to that mass production that we need for the rest of the
population that will take about a decade or so.
CHATTERLEY: I've got so many questions now. So basically what you're saying though, in terms of nutritional value, it's comparable?
SRIRAM: Nutrition wise, I would say I see - I don't want to say it's same--
CHATTERLEY: I know it is difficult.
SRIRAM: Yes, it is very difficult. But I would say Basil analysis and test by a search shown that the protein levels are somewhere there similar I
would say. But we can push that the vitamins and the micronutrients are not there yet so that one has to be tailor made. But all of this can be looked
into from the nutrient mix that we're feeding the cells.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, interesting because as you can tinker with it, which I guess was my next question. In terms of taste and texture though similar or
identical arguably, to living shrimp or lobster we were just showing some video there and that the lobster rolls it actually looked like lobster. My
question comes down to shape shrimp shape--
CHATTERLEY: Or lobster shapes so you actually can sort have read yes, talk to me about the shaping process.
SRIRAM: Yes, we don't have the shape or the texture yet. So if you've seen all the videos, you would see most of the products that actually have a
minced meat inside of it even the lobster roll or the dumplings or the chili crab all of it our dishes where we use minced meat at this point,
because that's our final product.
But we are working on a 3D shape product. But I would say that is going to add to cost and a little bit of complexity of the technology. So we'll get
there eventually. But for now, we're concentrating on the minced seafood market.
Coming to taste it is actually inherent in our product, we haven't had to manipulate it is all inherent the Umami flavor. In fact, at the end of our
process, the left out liquid medium that we have grown ourselves in, or the meat in actually has so much Umami flavor in it, that we convert that
liquid into a seasoning powder. So our entire process is zero waste as well.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, because I think we've all eaten shrimp in the past that actually taste of nothing. And you're like, wow, you know, I actually love
the shrimp flavor, but these taste of nothing. So that's quite interesting, too.
What about cost? I mean, we've said it's, you've got to scale its early days. But I read something that said somewhere between two to four times
sort of in a mass equivalents for shrimp that you buy today. Obviously, the hope has to be that that comes right down?
SRIRAM: Correct. I mean, when we started off almost five years ago, we were producing shrimp at about $10,000 a kilogram. That was what our pricing
was. And the first I think the first beef burger that was made by a professor in the Netherlands way back in 2013, or 14, costed him one patty,
costed him $300,000.
But we've come a long way. I think that company and that Professor make it a few $100 right now. We are at about $50 to $75, a kilogram right now,
which is still premium priced, I would say, for shrimp, but not so premium price for lobster and crab, if you think about it.
And also in our case, if you're paying $50, you get hundred percent meat, you don't get the shell or the wastage or any of that. But we are working
really hard to scale it up and make sure that the pricing goes down eventually, with economies of scale.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, who's the client for this? Let's say in an ideal world, you get the price comparable. So on a price bases, there's no choice
between the two, who's the client for this? Because I do think there'll be people watching going, the cells and the cocktail and the mix. And this is
not clean food; however you choose to look at it. Who are your customer and your client?
SRIRAM: I completely agree with anybody who says no, or yes, or maybe for it, because I think at the end of the day, consumers have the choice to
choose what they want to eat, you know what they put on the table and in their stomachs as well.
So I would say early adopters for us are either flexitarians or people who don't eat meat for animal cruelty or ethical reasons for example, vegans
who have become vegans in their lifetime over their lifetime. So we are seeing a lot of interest from early.
Early interest from Millennials, Generation-Zs the younger generation that is extremely worried about the environment, animal cruelty, nutrition, at
the same time, what is happening to their body, as well as the animal's body eventually when they eat meat. So I would say it's more on the
But the essential target market in the longer run is actual meat and seafood eaters. Because what we're telling them is, here's another choice
for you to make. You can enjoy the same taste of shrimp, crab and lobster, or red meat or white meat or whatever it is, but it doesn't have to come
from a slaughtered animal.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I also think to your point about younger people, the audience and the market will grow as they age and younger people have the
same views as them as they grow up as well. And at some point, given increasing population size and scarce resources, choice will be a luxury, I
think, perhaps on some of these things, which ties to my next question, which is the plant based meat craze where everybody was talking about it,
they thought the market would be huge.
Founders and those in these companies that we've spoken to even recently have said, look, it is early days, to your point too. I just wonder whether
you see this product that you're creating is different or similar in terms of ideals, and whether there's a craze but that perhaps are danger is that
it's tough to convince people
SRIRAM: I would say we have a lot of learning's from the plant based meat industry, they sort of did it first we are learning from them. We have seen
what they have done and we can learn from what not to do or what to do for example, the market is growing.
I don't think we have captured even, you know the cultivated industry hasn't even captured 1 percent of the total market yet. And we are talking
about a multi trillion dollar market with regards to dairy, meat and seafood for example. So it's going to take a couple of decades to get there
but we are on the positive stride to get there.
And I think for plants - with plant based meats if you compare I don't think it's a comparison we are complementary to each other. In fact, most
of the cultivated meat companies including ours make hybrid products because at this point hundred person cultivated product is probably too
We can't - we are not at that scale. And you know the questions are too many by the consumers. So we are looking at a hybrid product, we in fact
work with plant based meat companies to make a plant base and a cultivated hybrid product at the end of the day.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think one of the perhaps mistakes if I may say that members of that industry made was over promising in the beginning, and
you're certainly not doing that. I think you're very realistic about the time and what it's going to take I think to convert people and get people
Singapore is also something that I see tying a lot of the investment and the location of these kinds of businesses. And it sort of makes sense to
me, given what 90 percent I believe of food for Singapore is important. So they understand better than most the importance of food chain supply
issues. Talk to me about being in Singapore and how supportive the government and regulators are pushing this?
SRIRAM: For sure, I mean, I have a very interesting anecdote here. When we started in August 2018, Singapore wasn't talking about food tech, or food
security or any of them. I mean, food security is always on our minds here, because like you said, we import 90 percent of our food.
But then six months after we started the company, the week, we launched our prototype dumplings, Singapore announced this whole foods story and 30 by
30, where they want to increase their local food production from the current 10 percent to 30 percent by 2030.
So much millions of dollars are going to get injected into this industry. And we're going to support plant based and cultivated insect base and so
on. The whole bus has been awesome for us that boost has been awesome.
But I think Singapore is basically setting an example for the world to show how the government, the private, the universities, the education sector,
the startups, the large MNC companies can all come together to solve one big problem, which is food.
And food is so essential for our livelihoods on a day to day basis. And I think through the pandemic, we learned that we weren't able to get the
products that we generally walk into a supermarket and buy, it was hard to go and source them.
There were so many food supply chain issues, disruptions here and there. And I think it also showed us that regional food production is what we
should look at. So I think Singapore strengthened all of that. And they're working towards a step by step sort of a format towards showing the world
how it can be done.
And also bringing in the regulatory framework, which is so important for cultivated meat as such. So we need a proper framework. It is a novel
product we need at most safety assessments done. And we are happy that Singapore is one of the first countries to come up with a regulatory
framework and also approve a product a couple of years ago.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it has to be collaborative and it actually has to be global because food insecurity is happening all over the world and it's
only going in one direction. So yes, playing your role its going is fascinating to watch progress. Sandhya for now, thank you so much great to
chat to you! The CEO and Co-Founder there of Shiok Meats thank you! We're back after this.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! And the first trading day of the second quarter of the year U.S. stocks a bit of a mixed bag as you can see
the DOW higher by some seven tenths of 1 percent some easing back for the tech heavy NASDAQ after that whopping 17 percent rally that we discussed in
the first quarter of the year.
Some of the major movers today the energy stocks including Exxon Mobil, Chevron and Shell, all higher by some four to 5 percent as you can see
across the board. And this follows the Saudi led OPEC Plus announcement that they'll cut output by more than 1.6 million barrels a day from next
month that includes obviously an extension of the 500,000 barrels from Russia.
Joining us now is Amrita Sen she's the Co-Founder and Director of Research at Energy Aspects. Amrita great to have you with us! Were you caught off
guard by this decision? Certainly, oil market investors were?
AMRITA SEN, THE CO FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH AT ENERGY ASPECTS: I do think there was some momentum in recent days after Russia came out and
talked about or rather, they announced that they were going to cut 500,000 barrels per day. But yes, I do think the timing of it was a little bit
surprising in the sense that.
You know, I am very much - I owe rather I understand the logic behind this. The fact that OPEC needed the market to stabilize outside of the macro
mayhem, so that when they do put through the cuts, the oil markets actually pay attention, rather than putting to the cuts at a time when it was all
about the banking crisis.
And even if they cut production, we could have still sold off $10. So I understand the logic and the timing of it. But and I did somewhat expect
that there is definitely something in motion. But the exact timing of it can never be, you know, it can never be called.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Explain the logic because again, and it happened the same way in October, there was criticism, the White House is obviously a notable
example. But others saying you're why this does at a moment when and the key difference being between now and October China is now rebounding.
It's coming out from its zero COVID policies; there is a degree of uncertainty about the economic outlook. Amrita, talk us through the logic
of making this decision and why you think perhaps right to support the market at this moment?
SEN: So a couple of things right? First and foremost, there is a lot of uncertainty with the banking crisis. We know credit will tighten up. We
know lending will tighten up that does mean we are looking at a recessionary environment.
Our balances actually talk about or they have factored in a recession in the U.S. in Europe. And that does mean oil demand is going to slow. I'm in
Asia right now, China is reopening. It is definitely booming over here. But there are parts of China that are slower to reopen than other parts.
Jet is one of them; you can't get flights, because flights take time to be added back. So there are headwinds to demand. And I think the main thing is
people were just very scared. And a lot of people were coming in and shorting Crude Oil, expecting it to go down or rather betting on it to go
That's what OPEC wanted to stop and stop very clearly saying, we are still looking after the market, we will ensure that stocks don't build even if
demand goes down. So don't you dare short this market?
CHATTERLEY: Yes. So basically, what they've done is flush those shorts out because the last thing they wanted was a sort of dramatic collapse in
energy prices, even if perhaps that's better for the consumers. You've also suggested, though, that we could see, going to want to comment on that?
SEN: Yes, I just wanted to say that I just challenging a little bit in terms of--
SEN: I don't necessarily think lower oil prices are good for the consumer in the long run sure in the short term. All of us want to pay less for
petrol, right? But ultimately, what that does is low oil prices means you don't get investment, which then leads to higher oil prices in the long
term. So we need sustainable oil prices. That's good for both consumers and producers.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, perfect point. I have 20 seconds. What are the conditions required to see $100 oil because I have seen analysts already saying that's
SEN: Yes, and we have our oil price forecasts for the second half, which is above $100. Look, inventories are going to drop very, very sharply with
these OPEC cuts as long as the economy is OK by that I mean a mild recession. The supply side of the market is far tighter and we are going to
get $100 in the second half of the year.
CHATTERLEY: Wow! Amrita, great to have you on thank you so much I know it's late! Amrita Sen, Co-Founder and Director of Research at Energy Aspects!
And coming up after the break, from fish to freewheeling French are Parisians ahead of the curve when it comes to banning e scooters? Residents
seem to be sick of the sight of them, and they've hit the brakes, we'll explain more next.
CHATTERLEY: Breaking news into CNN. Even Gershkovich, the American Journalist detained in Russia has filed an appeal against his arrest. The
Wall Street Journal reporter was arrested in Russia last week and charged with spying.
Russian media reporting that a complaint has been filed by Gershkovich's defense team. No date has been set for a hearing in the appeal. He's facing
up to 20 years in prison on espionage charges. The Wall Street Journal has said the Russian allegations are untrue.
Now to Paris, which was only recently besieged by piles of uncollected rubbish due to strike action has now voted to rid itself of another hazard
on the streets, electric scooters and what's being described as a rare public consultation.
89 percent of residents have said not to rental scooters after accident rates soared, and some riders took to speeding along sidewalks or
pavements. Paris has almost 15,000 scooters on its streets. Paris Correspondent Melissa Bell joins us now. Melissa I have to say I can kind
of understand this. They always go in the wrong direction. That's the biggest issue. You don't even see them coming?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Julia for anyone who's been in the French capital these last few years are back in 2018 when
they began appearing on Parisian streets, they'll have noticed exactly what you've seen Julia is that they're often going in the opposite direction to
the traffic which can make crossing the street here in France, in Paris, at least pretty dangerous at the best of times.
There are the cyclists, they're the scooters, there are pedestrians, and it was just a lot of chaos on the streets of the French capital. That was
really the view that the French Mayor took, in deciding to hold this consultation try to figure out whether prisons themselves, were happy to
have them or not.
Now, they've seen this huge expansion. You mentioned the fleet of 15,000 now in the streets of Paris, that's because the City of Paris had to limit
them initially, it was pretty unregulated, and a lot of different operators came in. There were many, far too many of them on the streets, and it was
even more hazardous.
And yet bike lanes have been introduced. Fines can be imposed if people are driving them recklessly. Still, though, you'll see a lot of young people
especially getting on those scooters two or three at a time sometimes and powering down the streets pretty fast.
I think that was behind her decision to hold the referendum. In the end, nearly 90 percent of Parisians said that they were in favor of the ban,
which will now therefore come into effect Julia by September 1st. All of these scooters should be off the streets of Paris, because the operators
will be seeing through the end of their contracts.
But it was only 8 percent of those eligible to vote who actually bothered to go out and cast their vote in Sunday's election Sunday's referendum. So
not a huge turnout there here in Paris, but at least that eyesore for those who consider that one will should soon be a thing of the past.
CHATTERLEY: Wow, only 8 percent. That's interesting. Well, they decide for everybody else we just showed a woman actually going in about two miles an
hour. I think she's has that for a different reason. Melissa Bell, thank you so much for that.
OK, and finally, a major match in the world of wrestling in the red corner, World Wrestling Entertainment or WWE as its better known has pinned down a
deal with the parent company of UFC, the Ultimate Fighting Championship. The combined entity will be valued at over $21 billion. That's quite a tag
team for those that watch it.
And that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. You can search for attitude
@jchatterleycnn, as always, in the meantime, "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next. I'll see you tomorrow.