Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

IMF says Bank Uncertainties Pressure Financial Outlook; U.S. Designates Gershkovich as Wrongfully Detained by Russia; Biden Headed to Northern Ireland to Mark Accord Anniversary; Calvino: Unemployment has been the Main Growth Drag; Sepura Home Launches Eco-Friendly Twist on Garbage Disposal; U.S. Stocks Open for Trade, Bitcoin hits 10 Month Highs. Aired 9- 10a ET

Aired April 11, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to all our First Movers around the globe. Fantastic to have you with us and there are plenty

of moves ahead this hour including President Biden heading to Northern Ireland as the U.S. tries to contain its damaging document leak global

investors still looking for signs of a true inflation peak Bitcoin back above $30,000 and on a fresh winning streak.

Plus, the IMF out with its new global economic outlook as we speak and the forecast looks a little bleaker just breaking the International Monetary

Fund lowering its global growth targets once again, slightly.

It's the tone I think that matters more than the numbers its latest report saying "the fog" around the World Economic Outlook has thickened in stark

contrast to its more encouraging forecast earlier this year. What's clearly changed over the last three months is stress on the banks and in the

banking sector.

And the IMF is now saying that threats to financial market stability are still very real, posing tough choices and tradeoffs for policymakers that

have been raising interest rates to battle still rising inflation, or this summit the ongoing uncertainties of the still raging Ukraine war, of

course, too.

We'll discuss the huge challenges facing global economies later on the program with Spain's First Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Nadia

Calvino, who is attending the Spring Meetings at the IMF this week. Investors are also grappling with all these global uncertainties with the

main focus the new U.S. consumer inflation data out on Wednesday.

For now, U.S. futures pretty unsettled to unchanged Europe though trading higher after the long Easter break, and a positive Asia handover too.

Japanese stocks boosted by news that famed investor Warren Buffett is looking to think more investment cash into the country a nice boat.

I think of competence as its new Central Bank Governor takes the helm so as always, lots to discuss, but first, to the IMF, a foggy economic forecast,

financial risks shifting firmly to the downside. The new IMF global economic outlook makes unsettling reading indeed.

Christine Romans joins us now on this. Christine, great to have you with us! I wonder whether you agree, it's sort of less about the tinkering of

the numbers and more about the tone shift, particularly given what they were saying in Davos just three months ago.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I absolutely agree and you never want to see those words, threats to financial market stability.

When we have been talking about scarring from the pandemic, a war in Ukraine, we've been talking about supply chains being tangled and starting

to loosen and now you enter this new almost a month now.

This new element into what has been a period of shifting narratives, Julia, that I can't really recall, in my career, what we've gone through over the

past three years or so. A growth slowdown from 3.4 percent this year to 2.8 percent next year, that is a 0.1 percent downgrade, which isn't really a

lot, but it's the wording here.

I think that is so fascinating. Uncertainty is high; the balance of risks has shifted firmly to the downside, so long as the financial sector remains

unsettled. That's the warning on growth here that I think we need to note the IMF also noting this sluggishness in the global system from so many

things, scarring from the pandemic, ageing workforces, geopolitical fragmentation.

Britain's decision to leave the EU, I mean, that's in here as well tensions between the United States and China and of course, the ongoing slaughter

really in Europe and a hot war in Europe is Russia a year on now more than a year on had been invaded Ukraine.

All of these things are in this big soup that has turned into a metaphor. You read it earlier. This fogginess hard to see through the fog here makes

predicting what will happen next very, very difficult.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was about to say, so the kitchen sinks moment for all the issues, but it's more of a bath or a VAT to use your soup terminology

here as well. And I do think honing in on the banking sector is important in the United States in particular, too, because you and I were questioning

to what extent we see banks tightening lending standards.

And I think the data that we've had from the last two weeks is incredibly eye opening, perhaps not unexpected in light of the turbulence that we saw.

The question is to what extent that carries on and it weighs more effectively on the U.S. economy and then has an awkward - jobs because that

jobs data still strong.

ROMANS: I know it and when we say the economy added just 236,000 jobs, I kind of chuckle because--

CHATTERLEY: Get - yes.

ROMANS: --236,000 jobs in normal times. There's still a very, very solid job growth. Maybe that falls off a cliff. Maybe it doesn't. The other

question, I think Julia that's kind of interesting is, can you have tightening in the financial sector, which is an obvious byproduct of this

period of uncertainty we've gone through that helps do the Feds job for it without having instability in the banking sector?


Everyone's sort of hunting around for these points of vulnerabilities. It might be that you have tightening but you still have underlying stability

that would be the best I think of both worlds.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, speaking of a better world, then on a final brighter note, the IMF did say interest rates in advanced economies are likely to revert

to their pre pandemic levels. Once the current spell of high inflation is passed they don't see when it's going to be passed, quite frankly.

ROMANS: Yes, right.

CHATTERLEY: But yes, everyone feels happier back at zero, apparently.

ROMANS: I know and there are others, though, who will argue that those days have basically zero interest rates, is over time being.


ROMANS: And that they were never natural in the first place. They were a byproduct of another crisis, we will get very key U.S. inflation data later

this week, Tuesday and Wednesday, the PPI and the CPI that'll be incredibly important, but you know, when I talked to my sources, they're really going

to be zeroing in I think, almost more pointedly on bank earnings later this week.

That's what they really want to drill into what's happening with lending and with financial stability. I think the feeling is here, the worst of the

inflation crisis is behind us. The Fed might have one more rate hike to try to tackle any kind of lingering inflation here and then they're hoping that

things can start receding quickly in terms of inflation story, but who knows, the outlook is foggy.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, mystifying, one might say thank goodness we have you.

ROMANS: Nice to see you.

CHATTERLEY: Christine Romans, thank you so much. OK, the Pentagon scrambling to contain the fallout from a major leak of classified documents

as we were discussing in a Monday show. The information includes how the U.S. spies not only on its enemies, but also its close allies such as South


Meanwhile, Seoul downplaying the leaked documents saying a considerable amount of the information is "Fabricated". Paula Hancocks has the details.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Presidential Office here in South Korea is questioning the validity of some documents that appear to have

been leaked from the Pentagon. In Presidential Office statements this Tuesday, they said that they claimed considerable amount of the information

has been "fabricated".

They gave no more details, though we have asked for more clarification as to what they believe has been fabricated. We do know that these documents

that were leaked do appear to show the internal conversations between Senior South Korean Officials about a potential deal to sell ammunition to

the United States.

Now within these leaked documents that appears there was concerned that the U.S. would then pass that ammunition on to Ukraine, and South Korea has a

long standing policy of not giving lethal aid to countries at war. Now there was also a conversation this Tuesday morning between Lloyd Austin,

the U.S. Secretary of Defense with his South Korean counterpart, Lee Jong- sup.

The South Korean side says that was called for by the U.S. side to discuss this issue, as well. They also claim in a statement from the Presidential

Office that both Ministers of Defense agreed that some of this was fabricated, but it's important to note that we only have this from the

South Korean side at this point.

The Pentagon has not commented or given any kind of readout on that conversation. It would be different to what we have heard from U.S.

Officials in the past. Now, the opposition here in South Korea has raised concerns about what has happened. Some saying it is a clear violation of

South Korea's sovereignty.


LEE JAE MYUNG, SOUTH KOREAN OPPOSITION LEADER: If what the U.S. media reported is true, it's very disappointing as it damages the trust based

South Korea and U.S. alliances. Hope the South Korean government is correct about the documents being forged. It seems difficult to rule out the

possibility of wiretapping.


HANCOCKS: There are also concerns among some opposition leaders about whether this is just the tip of the iceberg and whether there may be more

information that is yet to be released. The timing is tricky. The South Korean President Yoon Suk-Yeol is just two weeks away from traveling to

Washington and attending a steak dinner with U.S. President Joe Biden.

His state visit is certainly something that the Presidential Office here would rather that everybody be talking about. So there certainly does

appear to be on both sides, the U.S. and South Korea a fair bit of damage control. Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.

CHATTERLEY: And back to the United States now, another deadly mass shooting already the 146 this year. At least five people lost their lives at the Old

National Bank in Louisville, Kentucky after a 25-year-old employee opened fire during a staff meeting on Monday. Adrienne Broaddus has more on the

investigation as a community remembers the victims.


ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Their search for motive begins in Louisville, Kentucky after police say a 25-year-old bank employee

shot his co-workers leaving at least five dead.


INTERIM CHIEF JACQUELYN GWINN-VILLAROEL, LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE: The suspect shot at officers. We then returned fire and stop that threat.

BROADDUS (voice over): Police shot and killed the gunman Connor Sturgeon. Investigators say he was still firing his AR-15 style rifle when officers

arrived. The shooter had worked at Old National Bank for more than a year. But a law enforcement source says Sturgeon was recently told he would be


The source says surgeon wrote a note to his parents and a friend indicating he was going to carry out a shooting at the bank. It's not clear when the

note was found.

CALEB GOODLETT, WIFE WORKS AT OLD NATIONAL BANK (ph): I got a call from my wife panicking that she was locked in the vault.

BROADDUS (voice over): Police say the shooter live streamed the attack to Instagram. It was also streamed to a Monday morning Bank meeting, Rebecca

Buchheit-Sims, a Manager at the Bank tells CNN. Sims says she watched from her computer as her co-workers were gunned down in the conference room.

She says she didn't work directly with the alleged shooter but knew him to be "extremely intelligent" with the low key temperament. SWAT teams rated

the gunman's home Monday afternoon, as officials praised the quick action of first responders.

ANDY BESHEAR, KENTUCKY GOVERNOR: Has got to be about them and the heroic actions of everybody who responded.

BROADDUS (voice over): One of the officers who ran into the gunfire was rookie cop, Nicholas Wilt, who was shot in the head and is in critical


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're all praying and supporting him. It was just a week and a half ago that I gave him along with the chief his graduation diploma

from the Academy.

BROADDUS (voice over): One of the five victims, a Senior Vice President at the bank was a close friend of the Governor.

BESHEAR: Thomas Elliot helped me build my law career. Helped me become Governor, gave me advice on being a good dad.


CHATTERLEY: We'll back after this, stay with CNN.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", the United States declaring American journalist to Evan Gershkovich wrongfully detained by Russia. The

move now enables the State Department to use different ways to free him including potential prisoner swaps. Kylie Atwood joins us now.

Kylie, the hope is that this can unlock the kind of negotiations that managed to see basketball player Brittney Griner freed. The concern of

course is that there are those still there like Paul Whelan and his family that haven't been successfully negotiated. What happens now?


KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well that's exactly right, now that Evan Gershkovich has been actually designated as wrongfully

detained, which essentially means that the U.S. government thinks there was no legitimate reason for his arrest for the charges of espionage that he is

now facing.

The U.S. government is going to go to work drawing on all of its resources to try and figure out a way to get him home as soon as possible. And I say

that, with that being the goal that is not necessarily going to happen overnight. We know that there is still a legal process to play out in

Russia when it comes to the process that Gershkovich is actually going through.

And usually, that has to actually hit a point where it's concluded to a degree before Russia engages in conversations with the United States that

could put options on the table, both sides, you know, putting down options to try and get him out. As you said, there have been prisoner swaps in the


Last year there were two Americans who are wrongfully detained in Russia. Brittney Griner and Trevor Reid were both released independently in

individual prisoner swaps. And of course, as you said, Paul Whelan, an American who is still wrongfully detained in Russia was left home, both of

those times when those two Americans were released as part of prisoner swaps.

And he actually just yesterday spoke with his family for the first time in about two weeks. He's been wrongfully detained in Russia for more than four

years now. And he had heard the news that Evan Gershkovich had been detained as well. Of course, his concern is getting left back in Russia a

third time if Gershkovich is actually, you know, able to secure a deal and he isn't.

But when you talk to U.S. Officials in this building at the State Department, they very clearly say that they are also going to be focusing

on Paul Whelan's case as they have been over the last four years is just a question of how to negotiate with the Russians and they are known for being

incredibly tough and challenging to understand at the negotiating table.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and we've seen last minute changes too. Kylie Atwood, thank you so much for that report there. Now President Biden is headed to

both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

The visit, which begins with a stop in Belfast, will commemorate the 1998 signing of the Good Friday Agreement which helped end decades of sectarian

violence in Northern Ireland. One issue not resolved however, the post Brexit economy of Northern Ireland our Senior Diplomatic Editor Nic

Robertson reports.


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice over): Blind maker bloc and its boss Cormac Diamond are at the cutting edge of their


CORMAC DIAMOND, CEO OF BLOC: Will take orders up to 430, if any day there'll be turned around the same day.

ROBERTSON (voice over): And Darren object lesson on beating Brexit impact on Northern Ireland.

DIAMOND: And there's going to --. This one's going to --.

ROBERTSON (on camera): In the Netherlands?

DIAMOND: In the Netherlands.

ROBERTSON (on camera): So this whole pallet is going to places in the EU?

ROBERTSON (voice over): He can sell direct to the EU without the Brexit problems Mainland, U.K. companies have.

DIAMOND: You're a third country within the European market. So there's additional paperwork and tariffs associated with selling products directly

to consumers.

ROBERTSON (on camera): So this is your advantage?

DIAMOND: Absolutely.

BETH LUNNEY, SAINTFIELD NURSERIES: The problem with getting plants from England is that the haulers don't want to do group age.

ROBERTSON (voice over): But Brexit isn't working for everyone. Even with the new U.K., EU Windsor framework deal

LUNNEY: Doesn't seem that it's going to get any easier and we're now not only have we the border - say we also have to adhere to all these European


ROBERTSON (voice over): Beth Lunney run Saintfield Nurseries says she'll still face a near impossible challenge to get some plants from Mainland,


LUNNEY: There's just the one that we string are being cut, and we've been cast adrift and that's how it fails.

ROBERTSON (voice over): Improve British communities, the issue is totemic. The power sharing government here is stalled over it. Yet business here is

somehow powering ahead.

STEPHEN KELLY, CEO OF MANUFACTURING NORTHERN IRELAND: Miraculous thing has happened. Our exports to the U.K., the EU and the rest of the world are all

increased whilst the rest of the U.K. market has decreased.

ROBERTSON (voice over): But political sensitivities are not Brexit only challenge here. Better Business is putting a squeeze on labor. U.S. mining

giant Terex which first invested here right after the Good Friday Peace Agreement and now has eight sites turning close to a billion dollars in

sales last year needs to grow their 2000-person workforce and is taking untraditional steps.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're in massive recruitment drive and we are actively trying to recruit females into our business.


So when we actually actively went out under a female veteran Academy we were very successful in attracting women into the workforce.

DIAMOND: So this is the next generation of blind production.

ROBERTSON (voice over): Blind maker Cormac Diamond has a solution too.

ROBERTSON (on camera): All robots?

DIAMOND: Yes, largely robots and the type of employee that will you'd see in the future state will have the skills related to advance manufacturing


ROBERTSON (voice over): So successful is breaking into the U.S. blind market, selling the robots, not the blinds.

ROBERTSON (on camera): So this is where the future is going to be for you more automated--

DIAMOND: Obviously, replicas systems of this here deployed around the world, we'll might help manage it in our day to day basis.

ROBERTSON (on camera): Business groups estimate that for every job generated in advanced manufacturing, another three are created in the wider

economy. And right now, in Northern Ireland, one in every four families is estimated to rely on manufacturing for their income.

ROBERTSON (voice over): The political issue in play is business delivering more Brexit winners, the losers, and the answer to that likely seen at the

ballot box next month.


CHATTERLEY: And Nic Robertson joins us now from Belfast and it will come back to that because that was a fascinating report. And I think it's

important to tie the sort of politics to economics and dissatisfaction or satisfaction, but I believe we've just learned that there's a public safety

operation underway in Derry after a suspicious device was found. Can we talk about that first? What more do we know?

ROBERTSON: Yes, the police have gone into a cemetery in Derry. This is where a parade a dissident Republican group was parading yesterday there,

and then they are the political wing of the new IRA. That's what the police say. And that neighborhood is very much in the thrall of that group that

call themselves the IRA.

There are big IRA signs around there, signs showing gunman at work in that neighborhood. It was a very contentious parade yesterday petrol bombs were

thrown at the police. We were in that cemetery and there was a call at that cemetery for young people to join the IRA.

But before they left the cemetery, a lot of the young men that put up umbrellas disappeared behind the building set fire to something. Now the

police had surveillance helicopters in the air surveillance drones. Now the police have gone back into that cemetery today and said that they found a

suspicious device.

This could be contentious, of course, and could develop into further outbreaks of violence through the day because of the contention between the

pro-IRA supporters in that community and the police themselves, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and of course, it's just hours before President Biden arrives for his visit to both the north of course and the Republic as well,

as we mentioned. Nic will continue to watch headlines on that and further details. But for now, I want to get back to the report that you mentioned.

And I suppose it's no surprise that there's a correlation between those that are facing perhaps the most challenging economic circumstances and not

necessarily benefiting and post the Brexit negotiations to political discontent.

ROBERTSON: Yes, it's really telling that community where the police operation is underway now is very economically deprived. But just two miles

away, you saw in that stock report there, the Terex factory, doing hugely well, very well, so well, they're expanding.

So there's a real need for properly and adequately trained new members of staff in that plant and they're trying to improve training in the

community. And that's something that President Biden will be talking about and doing here at a ribbon cutting ceremony at a new university campus here

in Belfast.

So his message and the message of politicians is, let's close that economic gap. Let's get more jobs going. Let's train young people into those

vocational skills that are required and heavy engineering or robotics technologies as well. Let's get them trained. Let's get the money flowing

into the communities.

And I think you see the juxtaposition there in Derry, that community, one of the poorest in that city, but it highlights if you can get the money in,

it lifts people above a threshold and they can get better aspirations in their life. That's an idea and it's a tough challenge to me.

But I think the expectations here among politicians, at least are that Northern Ireland can do better and prosper and its economy is getting

better. But just a sub-note to that 25 years since the Good Friday Agreement, the highway that connects Belfast over the 60, 70 miles for

Derry. Only this past week has had lanes open as a dual carriageway rather than a single carriageway.


A little bit of motorway but that shows you how slow it is to get those vital economic physical connections here. A main highway between Belfast

and Northern Ireland's second city is just been so slow to happen.

CHATTERLEY: 25 years, peace comes in the form of hope and to your point that's based on economic opportunity first and foremost that's something

that EU the Euro zone and the U.K. need to think harder about. Nic, great to have you with us thank you. Great to have you there! OK, more "First

Move" after this.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" and as you've been hearing, the International Monetary Fund's says there's a fog enveloping the World

Economic Outlook and it's thickened with uncertainty. But when it comes to Spain, the IMF expects that nation to continue to outperform the Eurozone

as a whole with stronger relative growth and lower inflation.

The government in Madrid has also moved to cushion consumers throughout this period from the worst of the price pressures through windfall taxes on

both banks and energy providers. That's also raised some questions though, about the government's commitment to commerce. So clearly, much to discuss

and I started by asking the First Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister what the IMF challenging outlook will mean for Spain?

NADIA CALVINO, SPANISH FIRST DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, obviously these meetings are taking place at a time of high uncertainty and market

volatility. As the war in Ukraine goes on and financial conditions are tightening throughout the world. We are an environment which is

challenging. Nevertheless, the Spanish economy is showing remarkable resilience. We had very strong growth in 2021 and 2022.


GDP grew by more than 5.5 percent. The first quarter of this year continues with a very positive trend. And all institutions are revising upwards their

forecasts for growth and downwards their forecast for inflation, which is positive news and a positive outlook for 2023.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, you're an outperformer in many respects, when I look at this IMF report, to your point, stronger growth than many of your other

Eurozone country members, but also lower inflation. I mean, you could argue at this point that if the Eurozone had your level of inflation with the

measures that you've taken to support consumers, and the European Central Bank could do rather less than more, perhaps, is that a bit frustrating to


CALVINO: Well, you know, I wouldn't like to comment on monetary policy being the competence of the European Central Bank. But indeed, Spain was

the first to single out the concern about energy prices; we have taken very effective measures since 2021 already to try to curb inflation.

And in particular, to moderate the increase of energy prices, thus bringing increased competitiveness to Spanish companies also, that are gaining

market share, even in such a challenging global context. And I think that the sooner we curb inflation, and we moderated the better in terms of the

sustainability of our growth.

CHATTERLEY: We'll come back to that. The measures that you took on the business sector, with the banks and some of the utilities to and some of

the structural reforms, which I think are important, particularly for the labor market at this moment. But there was a period and you've mentioned it

with regards to the financial volatility, where investors certainly were looking around the world and they were looking for the next weakest link.

What do I think the message the important message to investors today and to citizens, I think, too, about the strength of the Spanish banks, and even

in a greater slowdown scenario, their ability to continue to lend particularly to small businesses and consumers.

CALVINO: Yes, the Spanish banking sector has undergone a very in depth restructuring in the last 10 years. And right now, they are in a quite

strong position. The governor of the Bank of Spain, who's also here in Washington these days, he's spoken loud and clear, signaling the strength

both in terms of solvency but also liquidity of Spanish banks.

So, we do not see these as a source of concern right now. But obviously, throughout the world, we have to follow this quite closely as financial

conditions are tightening, interest rates are rising. And this is going to have an impact on the real economy.

CHATTERLEY: As we head into the summer, obviously critical that the tourism season, the importance of the health of some of these small businesses, and

to your point, the likelihood perhaps that we do see some tightening of lending standards, in particular, what are your expectations?

CALVINO: Well, in Spain, we have a quite unique situation, because even if private sector conditions are tightening and credit is slowing down

throughout the world, in Spain, we have a unique situation derived from the European recovery plan. Spain is the front runner in the implementation of

the next generation EU investments and structural reforms.

This is having a very important counter cyclical impact that explains partly the strong growth that we have registered since 2021. And it is also

conducting or driving a structural modernization of our economy, which is also going to have a very positive impact down the line increase in

potential growth in the coming years.

So, all in all, we think that the financing conditions for the private sector are relatively more positive in Spain than maybe in other countries

around the world.

CHATTERLEY: The only comparison I could make where I think you perhaps fare more poorly than many other nations is the unemployment rate in Spain,

which remains relatively high. And I know and you and I've spoken to the prime minister to about the structural reforms that you've taken. How

quickly do you expect to see those feeding further in and enabling you to bring that rate down?

CALVINO: Indeed, unemployment has been the main imbalanced dragging growth in Spain for decades; we implemented a very significant labor market reform

last year. And in just one year, the results are quite impressive. They are outperforming our best expectations, frankly.

Because we see that there are 1.1 million persons more working in Spain right now than before the pandemic, also the quality of the jobs is

improving? And this means that we have 20.5 million persons working in Spain, this is an all-time record. The young, unemployed youth unemployment

is also going down. It's at historical minimum.

And we have to continue this trend, also increasing jobs in the new green and digital economy, which are future proof. The results so far are

extremely positive. And we hope to continue that trend. In the first quarter of the year the trend continues to be very positive. It's even


CHATTERLEY: A good sign to say and we'll continue to track that. I think part and we've discussed it already of what's allowed you to be more

flexible in terms of cushioning consumers particularly and businesses from some of the pressures that we've seen on pricing has been that the windfall

taxes on banks and utilities.


But it has created and I think this is going to come up certainly in your discussions in Washington have a sort of anti-business lien from the

government. And that was recently reinforced by the infrastructure giant Ferrovial, saying that it's looking at moving its headquarters to the


The government's response, perhaps is as expected. I wonder if you've convinced them of the reasons to stay. And what those outsides we need to

understand about the government's approach, I think, to business and investment?

CALVINO: Well, I would, these are two separate issues, I think. The most effective measure we have undertaken to moderate inflation has undoubtedly

been the Iberian solution. The fact that we have lower energy prices as compared to the rest of European countries, we have a higher renewables

penetration, and that is giving a competitive edge to European companies right now.

And that I think should be singled out as a very important factor, attracting foreign investment into Spain at unprecedented levels right now.

Now, we are obviously a pro-business government and Spain has many multinational companies, which are based in Spain and have thrived and

grown and expanded throughout the world, we are supporting them to do so.

And that is why also since Ferrovial announced that they may be changing their headquarters, we engaged with the company, also with our securities

market regulator with our stock exchange, to see if there would be any disadvantage to Spanish companies to have dual listing with the U.S. stock


And right this week, we have communicated the initial technical analysis, which confirms that there is no obstacle and that there is no disadvantage

to being listed in the Spanish stock exchange. So, we will continue to work with these and no Spanish companies to support they have the best possible

access to international financial markets, of course.

CHATTERLEY: Right. So, the hope is that they can have that dual listing and remain part of the ibex 35. Because I guess that's an ideal solution,

particularly for a big company with an international business like this, you can find a medium ground.

CALVINO: Absolutely, absolutely. We have expressed repeatedly our commitment to making this not only a possibility, but a reality. We want to

support dual listing by Spanish companies; we want to continue to have very strong multinational companies, which are based in Spain. This is part of

our strength.

And we are committed as the financial market's regulator on the stock exchange, to work hand in hand with the Spanish multinationals to ensure

that they have the best possible access to financial investment flows.

CHATTERLEY: It's a good message to send certainly. One of the other topics for discussion, no doubt, in the coming days is going to be China. And I

know Prime Minister Sanchez, one of three now European leaders, that's recently in Beijing for meetings there.

There were some eyebrows raised after Emmanuel Macron's comments last week suggesting that European countries shouldn't follow the U.S. lead,

particularly where relations with Taiwan and the concerns from China are concerned.

I just I wonder where Spain stands on this point. Do you stand with France? And how do you perceive the economic benefits of China, but also the

strategic competition and the complications of this relationship?

CALVINO: Well, you know, I think we cannot just turn our back to China because it's a very important commercial partner. And we have every

interest a shared interest, that they play a constructive role in putting an end to the war in Ukraine as soon as possible.

Prime Minister Sanchez was there, he had a frank and clear exchange with a leader with Xi Jinping. And I think that that's the right way forward, you

know, to engage in a manner, which is mutually beneficial. China's a very big partner, and we have every interest to engage.

I would like to comment on the remarks paid by the president of another European country, of course, you know. But surely, in the meetings in the

spring meetings that we're holding in Washington this week, the need to avoid global market fragmentation, which would slow down growth throughout

the world, and we can and increase the vulnerabilities throughout the world is also a shared interest. And I hope that we have a productive discussion

on that point, too.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it certainly needs to continue to happen. Can I ask if data privacy and TikTok was discussed? And I'm tapping into your digital

minister now, because obviously, we've seen EU institutions ban TikTok on government use devices. But I believe so far, the Spanish government

haven't. Can I ask where you stand on that and whether that was discussed?


CALVINO: The concern about privacy, data privacy, data protection and the respect of our values and rights in the new digital world, more generally,

this is not a new concern. Actually, since we took office in 2018, we have been working to ensure that we drive a humanistic digitalization, you know,

one, where citizens can have confidence in the tools, in the mechanisms, in the algorithms that are behind our screens.

So, this is not a new issue to us. And I think we have to, we have developed a charter of digital rights in Spain that has inspired the work

which is on-going at the European and global level. Also, we're working with our Latin American brother countries to work on our own charter of

digital rights.

And I think we need to, we need to accelerate work so that we can have a framework throughout the world that gives us confidence and can continue to

drive as a digitalization which is to the benefit of humankind. Now, some countries have expressed concerns on TikTok, others are expressing concerns

of ChatGPT.

And that I think confirms that it is not one tool or one application or one social medium or another. It's in general the need to ensure that

digitalization is protecting our privacy, protecting our data rights and our democratic values.

CHATTERLEY: OK, still to come here on "First Move" we're taking out the trash with a Canadian start-up also to the challenges of waste disposal

units. The CEO of Sepura Home joins us after the break.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". What started as a dinner party disaster turned into a kitchen gadget with plans to reshape food waste in

the home after Victor Nicolov's garbage disposal broke during a party. He quickly discovered a number of issues surrounding disposals soon after

Sepura Home was born.

The company's new appliance called Sepura sits on the customer's sinks in place of a traditional garbage waste disposal unit. The system attaches to

the bottom of the drain separating solids from liquids with a sensor that detects if something like a fork is in the bucket. Its goal is to make

composting easier or working towards a more sustainable environment.

The Canadian startup also recently raised more than $4 million worth of funding led by sink maker Blanco to boost production and delivery of its

product. And they plan to start shipping this summer. Joining us now is Victor Nicolov; he's the Co-Founder and CEO of Sepura Home.


Victor, fantastic to have you on the show so just explaining your mind the problem that you think these fixes and how the system works.

VICTOR NICOLOV, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, SEPURA HOME: Yes, well, first thanks for having me on, Julia. But yes, well, to be honest, I started this

because I was a little lazy. I did want to compost, food waste at home, I did want to separate everything from garbage disposal and the trash. So, I

did it. But I had that smelly bin on my counter.

And I hated it. So out of laziness, I wanted to build a device that, yes, really just did all the work for me, I'd push a button, did all the

separations, solid, liquids, put it in a bucket, and keep that bucket hidden from me under my sink and block the orders. And just yes, wouldn't

need to deal with it until I'd throw it out in my curb side pickup.

CHATTERLEY: I love the fact that you keep using the term bucket. Because when I read this, I was like, why is this better than a bucket? So, you

have to explain that because I think I know a lot of people who've had waste disposal systems, and they've literally trashed them for various

reasons, blocked plumbing, I think it's one of the big issues, inability to handle fat blades, which is also a concern. Talk to me about that and smell

of course, too. Have you got around that?

NICOLOV: Yes, well, I'll start with the smell. That was a big component of it, I absolutely hated the smell fruit flaps meant those, those are the

worst. So it was, this is a technology, it's been out there already. But we were able to kind of use it in our bin as well in an innovative way. So,

it's, we have a carbon filter that sits on top of it.

And that traps out in all the odors. But we didn't want to have like giant fans or anything or a super high-powered device, pushing all that air

through that carbon filter. So, the way that we designed it is once the food ways starts to generate odors inside, that's when it really heats up

inside of the bin.

And that naturally creates upwards airflow. So, we have air intake holes at the bottom of the band that sucks in cool air, and everything just

naturally flows through that carbon filter at the top, which just prevents all odors from escaping.

CHATTERLEY: OK, so most people - ask you just because we're watching a video of you throwing vegetables into a sink. Most people are running water

at the same time as they're throwing peelings and things into a sink. How does it actually separate the water and prevent the bucket filling with

water at the same time? Because I believe you can keep putting things in here for around a month based on a traditional family's use.

NICOLOV: Yes, that's right. So, it's kind of you can think of it as reverse juicer. I don't know if you have one of those at home, the kind of screw,

and conveyor screw inside a filter. So, it's essentially what we're doing under your sink, but in reverse order. So, we keep the solids and get rid

of the liquids.

CHATTERLEY: OK, and then I cut you off rudely before we're just as you're about to tell me how it handles fat and ice cubes and fingers.

NICOLOV: Yes, so fats, solid fats, those are fine. So same idea if you put it down there, it will not go through our filter, our filter catches 99.9

percent of everything that enters there. So has to be very, very tiny to get by. So that's even better than just normal sinks.

So yes, if you pour fat down your sink, it's going to catch it, separate that into the bin. If it's anything liquids, you do just have to open the

bin under your sink and just pour directly in there. And - goes for anything yes, that's the fun part. That's also what I hated about a garbage

disposal that I had a while back, which ended up breaking.

Yes, it's dropping a fork and there's a nightmare. It sounds the worst. It's super loud and stuff. So, we really wanted to fix that. So, what we've

done with Sepura is that it catches it automatically. If you've got a fork in there, it'll stop back up, let you take it out, and then it will keep

running afterwards.

CHATTERLEY: But it can give you a pinch. So, I read the instructions in the installation instructions as well. And it says don't, still don't put your

fingers down there because it can give you a pinch.

NICOLOV: Yes, I've done - to recommend it.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, don't do it very plausible until I get to the price, Victor. And then I had a complete shocker, because I was looking at

traditional waste disposal units and I mean, you can take your pick somewhere between $120 and $950 in the United States. The average around

250 this is $800. Tell me how we got to that price because that seems extraordinarily expensive.


NICOLOV: Yes, well, like you said, there's, yes, those garbage disposals vary from a wide range of prices. If you're, if you're buying a higher end

garbage disposal, you know, that's, that's where we fit in. So, we're definitely, definitely a premium device. But you're not just getting that

separator component, when you buy a Sepura.

You're not getting the part that does all the work for you underneath your sink, you're also getting that then that attaches to it, and it blocks the

odors. The device is smart as well, connects to your Wi Fi.

But we didn't want to do this at first, but saw so many benefits in doing that, just because we get to push over the air updates. And what that means

is that the device will improve just like a Tesla, I guess just it'll just keep improving over time, even after you bought it. You don't need to buy

anything else for it.

CHATTERLEY: But you don't actually get compost from that, you still have to take the vegetables out each month and sort of pass that on to be made into

compost. Is that correct? Or am I wrong on that?

NICOLOV: So sadly, most people do not compost at home. And we wanted to build a device that kind of solves people's problems at home everywhere. If

you want to compost that you can start the composting process inside the bin and then finish in your backyard. But we find that most people will

just get rid of it in their curb side pickup organics bin.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, OK, interesting. Victor, you're going to have to come back and talk to us about what demand you're seeing when this, what hits the

market. And I would add to those lists of financial benefits, plumber fee savings which are extortionate, quite frankly.

So that's a contributing factor maybe too. Great to chat to you, the Founder and CEO of Sepura Home, thank you. We're back after this, stay with

"First Move".


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". On a slightly tepid Tuesday field to Wall Street today, the major averages consolidating, I think it's a

reflection of some of the nervousness perhaps ahead of tomorrow's key inflation data.

And of course, as Christine Romans was telling us bank earnings later this week too. Bitcoin bulls, though not to be deterred, and certainly out in a

full force, the Cryptocurrency currently up more than 3 percent and back above $30,000 per Bitcoin for the first time since June of last year.

Crypto balls crediting on-going inflation fears are the spark for the latest rally. Etherium seeing solid gains too ahead of a fresh network

upgrade later this week. And that's not the only notable news from the world of tech Alibaba unveiling its long-awaited generative AI product to

rival ChatGPT. Alibaba which recently announced that it's splitting into six separate units will integrate its new AI technologies into all the

company's apps.


Beijing's response as you would imagine, cautious the government drafting new measures that were placed checks on Chatbots and perhaps delay, the Ali

Baba rollout. And finally, looking to start over in a new country a survey by expat group internationals has just released a list of the places where

it's easiest to start a new life abroad.

Out of 52 locations reviewed number one was Bahrain. The survey said it's easy to get a visa, find housing, access essential services online and get

around without speaking the languages. And second place was the United Arab Emirates where easy communication makes it simple to settle in.

And rounding out the top three Singapore which offers expats a highly digitized lifestyle and English is one of its official languages. Just for

context, Germany was last on the list, just behind Japan and China. I'm not sure who voted. No more comments on that. And that's it for the show.

"Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next. And I'll see you tomorrow.