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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Musk's SpaceX to Launch Starship; Death Toll Rises as Battle between two Generals Intensifies; Kremlin Critic Sentenced to 25 Years for Condemning War; FOX News-Dominion Trial Abruptly Delayed; Video Shows Explosive Object Land near Japanese PM; How Man-Made Coral Reefs help Protect Sea Life. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired April 17, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to FIRST MOVE, as always lots to get to this hour. So don't touch that dial. We've got a

surprise delay in the Fox-Dominion defamation trials, the first batch of U.S. bank earnings, making investors smile. Profits from the rest of the

economy could be less fertile and at the IMF debt relief for needy nations may finally be in style.

And I do want to begin there at the IMF, World Bank meetings in Washington D.C. last week. I definitely saw more commitment and consensus from

officials to finally tackle the unsustainable debt burdens of poor nations and it's a serious issue for us all. Developing nations need to free up

trillions of dollars over the coming years to help them adapt to the impact of climate change in particular, and protect against further social


We all need to care more. China, the largest sovereign lender to developing nations is also I think, realizing it needs to be part of the debt

refinancing solution. And all this of course, despite the backdrop of geopolitical tensions and fragmentation too the fight clearly isn't over.

In fact, it's just beginning but I came back from those IMF meetings with hope. And you can compare and contrast that to the paralysis that we're

seeing. In another debt debate the fight to raise the U.S. debt ceiling. U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, laying out his vision for how to reach a

deal and prevent a damaging debt default during his speech at the New York Stock Exchange in the next hour.

The clock is clearly ticking with the United States set to run out of cash to pay its bills as early as this summer. McCarthy's proposals already seen

as being completely unworkable, but I guess debate is progress when you have seriously low expectations.

I'll refrain from rolling my eyes. Financial markets are watching all of this too extremely closely. Plenty of nervousness, I think already with the

cost of insuring against that default on the rise, but we do see a relatively calm start to the trading week so far after last weeks.

Across the board, Wall Street advanced lots of earnings challenges ahead, too, and information to digest with more big financial firms set to report

this week. Elon Musk's Tesla also released his results on Wednesday. Musk's week already rocketing ahead though, as we count down to a major SpaceX

launch in Texas.

And that is where we begin today's show. You are about to see live pictures of the SpaceX craft on top of the world's largest rocket booster called the

super heavy appropriate. It's set for a test launch by Elon Musk's SpaceX in Southern Texas this Monday.

Starship is designed to ultimately take a human cruise to Mars. Joining us now is Elizabeth Howell, a writer at Elizabeth, this is a hugely

exciting moment and, fingers crossed, we are expecting this launch to take place this morning and not be delayed. Walk us through what we should


ELIZABETH HOWELL, STAFF WRITER AT SPACE.COM: Well, what we're hoping to see is that this big system is actually going to go into space today, which

would be a big deal. But no matter what happens any kind of a test of a new system is exciting. And so we'll just have to cross our fingers and see

what happens next.

CHATTERLEY: So we've said appropriately named the super heavy, which is the rocket, we have the Starship itself, when NASA has chosen this. We have to

just understand how important this launch is, from a future perspective too. NASA has chosen this to be the moon lander astronaut for the Artemis 3

mission in 2025. Just explain the importance of that and what the hope is to achieve them?

HOWELL: What we're going to be doing is bringing humans back to the moon. And we're going to be landing at the South Pole, which has never been done

before. But there's a lot of water down there. And so the hope is that Starship will bring the Astronauts to there and then have a lot of room to

carry back moon rocks, anything else that they feel as important and then bring that back to people here on Earth.

And so it's a big shipment facility. That's a good way to think about it. And it's going to be carrying a lot of science for us in the future.

CHATTERLEY: And the reason why this is all possible is because as we've known we've talked about many times on the show SpaceX has collapsed the

cost of putting these rockets into space and the fact that they're reusable so they come back down and collected and can be used again it's part of

what's key to being able to get people on the moon and hopefully one day Mars as well.

HOWELL: Exactly that's been in SpaceX's DNA from the beginning. They have wanted to bring people, science all kinds of things out to Mars, but to do

that we do need to lower the cost somehow, and so they have reusable rockets.


Starship is going to be made at some mostly reusable system as well and the hope is that we are not building and building things over again it's going

to be a lot cheaper and so that's a part of why I agreed this is so exciting.

CHATTERLEY: So it is very exciting. We do hope this takes off in the coming one hour and a half or so. The hope is, though, this hour, and we'll see it

live on the show. But we also have to sort of predicate this with the fact that Elon Musk himself in recent weeks has said that there's a 50 percent

chance that this rocket explodes and actually just taking off ism will be a great thing.

Elizabeth, can you give us some context on that too for audiences that are going to be watching this, and I think terrified if we do see some sort of

fireworks when this takes off?

HOWELL: Well, the good news is there's nobody on board.


HOWELL: And that SpaceX is very safe(inaudible). They do their best to make sure that everybody is a good distance away if such a thing happens. And

whenever a failure like this happens, especially on a test mission, we still learn things. And so the important thing to think about is just like

when your kids you know, and your parents or guardians that you try and try again.

That's something that people have done with rockets for well, you know, hundreds and even thousands of years if you're talking about the Chinese

and so even if this doesn't go to plan, we're going to learn something from it and the next version will be all that much better. So we'll just see

what happens next.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. So keep calm and carry on, don't panic. If you see some fireworks and fingers crossed, it takes off and the weather conditions look

right. I mean, it looks like a beautiful day there over in Texas today. So fingers crossed, we see it. Elizabeth, you may be back with us, if it does

launch in this hour for now.

Thank you so much, Elizabeth Howell, Staff Writer at Great to have you on thank you. For now, a surprise twists in Dominion voting

systems high stakes defamation trial against Fox News. The judge in the case announced a one-day delay without further explanation, raising the

possibility that a settlement is in the works.

The Wall Street Journal, which is owned by Fox Corporation, Chairman Rupert Murdoch, reported that Fox News has made a late push to settle. Oliver

Darcy joins us now. Oliver, you and I have been discussing this now for weeks. And we both discussed in the past why this hasn't already settled.

Admittedly, the size of this is monstrous, but this sort of makes sense to me.

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes, some eleventh hour or drama in this case, it was like you said expect it to start today. And now

there's actually hearing going on right behind me in this Delaware courthouse, but it's not the start of the trial. It's not the start of

opening arguments.

Instead, the judge is making an announcement about why this trial has been delayed until at least tomorrow. And it comes amid reports as you said that

there isn't last minute push by Fox for settlement. That report first came in Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal. It's now been confirmed by several

other outlets.

So we'll see what happens if its settlement is in the works Dominion, however, just walked into the courtroom, our Marshall Cohen is in the

courtroom and they've walked in with 40 boxes four zero boxes of evidence. So they're clearly prepared to take this to trial, we'll see if they

somehow managed to avert a trial.

It would be an agonizing process, as we've discussed for the past few weeks for FOX News for Rupert Murdoch. He'd have to come to Wilmington and take

the stand, be questioned about why he allowed election lies to be broadcast on FOX is there. That's not something I don't think he wants to do. So it

would be in his interest, obviously, to hammer this settlement outside of courts. They have about a day left to do that. We'll see if it happens.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, there are a number of angles we can take in here that the money that we're talking about, in this case, the $1.6 billion lawsuit is

astonishing when Dominion itself has openly said that its business is valued at less than $100 million.

So that the money that we're talking about here, whether it's settled or otherwise is so huge, but the legal bar here, Oliver, I think is important

too, for Dominion to have to win this case. They have to prove that not only did Fox know what it was saying was false about Dominion, but they

carried on anyway.

DARCY: That's right and I think Dominion believes it has a very strong case to prove legally that Fox knew it was lying about the company, but allowed

those lies to be broadcast. Now Fox has obviously denied any wrongdoing. They've maintained that they're proud of their 2020 election coverage.

And they've said that Dominion's claims of $1.6 billion in damages are a wildly inflated figure. And so we'll see if they can again manage to settle

this dispute outside of court. The one thing too to keep in mind is that the Delaware court could also award Fox punitive damages.

So on top of the compensatory damages, they could also be awarded to punitive damages that can also drive the amount of money that Fox would

have to pay up quite a bit. Again, it's really unclear where this trial stands at this point in time whether it's going to take place or whether

Murdoch can get a last minute settlements and avoid coming down to Wilmington for this trial.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, and does he want he and his people on the stand because that was always going to be the real firework movement I think. Oliver, we

shall see what today's negotiations bring. Oliver Darcy there, thank you. OK heavy fighting underway for a third day in Sudan as battle intensifies

between two rival generals and Sudanese citizens pay the price. Larry Madowo explains.


LARRY MADOWO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Two Generals at war since Saturday, the forces of General Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo known as a

Rapid Support Forces paramilitary group, or RSF have been locked in battle with a Sudanese army led by General Abdel Fattah al-Burhan.

The fighting comes the Sudan tries to finalize a deal to return to civilian rule after two military crews in recent years, with temporarily united the

army and the RSF. In a phone interview, Dagalo who is better known as Hemeti told me ruling Sudan is in his endgame.

MADOWO (on camera): What do you personally want from this situation General Hamdan? Do you want to leave the army? Do you want to be the chief?

GENERAL MOHAMED HAMDAN DAGALO, LEADER OF PARAMILITARY RAPID SUPPORT FORCES (voice over): I don't want to be the leader of the army. There's a

framework agreement between all the Sudanese stakeholders that should be adhered to. I don't want to lead anything. These are all propaganda they

are making

MADOWO (voice over): As part of the agreement, the RSF some 100,000 strong would merge with the army, but differences over how long that would take

and who would end up with more power aggravated tensions between the two factions, which have since erupted into up in warfare.

Residential areas across Sudan have become battlefields with anti-aircraft weapons in the streets. And warplanes hovering overhead scores of civilians

have been killed. The army blames the RSF for the violence with Hemeti pointed the finger back at al-Burhan.

MADOWO (on camera): What is your message to the many people of Sudan was cared about this fresh round of violence?

DAGALO (voice over): We offer a serious apology to them because what we can say is al-Burhan is the one that forced us to do this. It was not us who

did this. We were defending ourselves.

MADOWO (voice over): Doctors Union says it's been difficult for medics to move about amid reports of many people being trapped near fighting

hotspots. Despite a U.N. brokered temporary truce. There were reports of gunfire in Khartoum, which Hemeti, again, blamed on the army.

DAGALO (voice over): We're under attack from all directions. They are attacking us with marked and unmarked vehicles. Unfortunately, they're not


MADOWO (voice over): It's unclear what side was firing during the ceasefire, but the army says it retains the right to respond if any

violations of card. Sudan's neighbors are looking for ways to de-escalate the violence. Egypt and South Sudan have offered to mediate talks between

the two sides.

The African Union and the Arab League both held emergency sessions, with more calls for an immediate end to the hostilities. The Army has said there

will be no dialogue until the RSF is dissolved. Hemeti says the stakes are so high in Sudan that any possible negotiations would have to be serious.

DAGALO (voice over): We are not refusing to go to the negotiating table, as long as the negotiation is true and truthful, honest, not playing games.


CHATTERLEY: Nima Elbagir joins us now from London. Nima, there are accusations flying thick and fast from both sides. I know it's very

difficult for us to clarify what information is real and it's been confirmed. What do we know at this stage?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that the conflict has intensified and we actually were able to verify

and create a heat map of the spread of incidents across the capital Khartoum. And you can see not only is it very widespread, but a lot of that

is in the height of residential areas.

And this is something that Commander Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo did not acknowledge in his interview, which is that the RSF garrisons were

intentionally placed inside residential areas. Why? Because for the last few years, there has been this escalating tension between them a

paramilitary group and the country's armed forces and a sense of rivalry and the competition for the ultimate prize of power.

What's happening now is that because of the presence of the RSF inside these neighborhoods, people are terrified inside their homes. Julia, people

are losing access to fresh clean running water, electricity and power have been cut off in many areas in Sudan.

Members of the doctor's organizations are telling us that they are unable to reach the injured and the wounded, and that in many cases in too many

cases, people are unable to even bury their dead. Information is so difficult to come by but every single time we speak to someone every time

we managed to get through.

Julia, what we hear is the utter heartbreak. Many people are lying on the ground, sheltering on the floor with their children, and they're just so

incredibly scared because the future continues to be unclear.


CHATTERLEY: I mean it's only manageable and to your point that there's a clear need for a ceasefire to allow people to bury their dead and to get

emergency services in November. It's sort of a long way away from the discussion today but both Generals have talked about this idea of the

country needing to head towards a civilian led government.

How do you even imagine the prospect of that in the future based on what we're seeing today with the sort of Fallout being the loss of civilian life

and injury and devastation?

ELBAGIR: And also the idea that if the RSF emerges victorious, then you have a paramilitary group and auxiliary force to the army, having conquered

and emerged victorious, a paramilitary group that was supplied and trained and equipped by Russia emerging victorious against the countries own army.

It is a volatile and untenable situation. So when Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo says as he did an excellent interview that Larry did, when he says, I want

to return to the civilians, he is not a part of the infrastructure of rule. And how can you return to how can the country trust him to return power, if

he emerges victorious.

That the sticking point is who gets to be the King in that relationship with the civilians, but the problem is going to be if both of these armed

forces both of these fighting forces have been allowed to hold the country hostage, then how can you have credible negotiations with the civilian

leadership? And how can the people of Sudan and the regional powers trust them?

CHATTERLEY: Yes, trust broken on all sides. Nima, great to get your insight!

ELBAGIR: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you so much for that. OK, just in to CNN, this SpaceX Starship flight test has been apparently canceled for today. Despite our

excitement and best efforts, they're troubleshooting a pressurization issue apparently. And SpaceX is now treating this like a dress rehearsal for the


So we continue to see that countdown which is why we were getting so excited. But apparently, just to reiterate, it will now not launch today,

more details to come as we get them. But for now, that flight has been canceled. We'll back after this. Stay with CNN.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE, the SpaceX Starship flight test has been canceled for today. Apparently they're troubleshooting a

pressurization issue. Starship is designed to ultimately take human crews to the moon and even Mars. Elizabeth Howell is back with us.

Elizabeth, I have to say I was so excited you and I were we're getting prepared for this launch. I'm furiously watching Elon Musk's Twitter handle

as well, because that's also a source of information. And he says a pressuring valve appears to be frozen.

So unless it starts operating soon, no launch today, that was eight minutes ago. So I'm still not ruling out this launch completely. Can you give us

any information about that? Do you know what that means?

HOWELL: Well, SpaceX is going to give us more information as it becomes available. And so props to them for letting us know that there's an issue

and that they're going to be working on that. And I mean, even if it doesn't launch today, they will get it fixed up, and they will try it again


CHATTERLEY: Yes, the message was that we're still going to run this, we're still going to run the clock down, we're still going to do a trial run

effectively for everybody around this, which, as we were discussing earlier, if this doesn't work, they'll do it again. But it's actually quite

good for the team around this to pretend that this is going to take place just for sort of functional learning purposes.

HOWELL: That's exactly yes, because this is all a big learning process. They're launching something that is fairly new, it's only been in Earth's

atmosphere before and today, they were hoping to bring it to space. But even if that doesn't all happen, they can learn stuff from running through

the procedure, seeing how the rocket behaves, figuring out how to solve problems; these are all going to be useful for future space launches for


CHATTERLEY: Yes, and then the ultimate tease after apparently that countdown clock has been paused at 40 seconds. So I think we're pretty sure

now that this is not going to take place. Do we have any sense of timing over? I mean, obviously, they have to work out what went wrong here and try

and work on a fix. But do they have other dates selected for when they could perhaps try and re-launch this and do a tape too?

HOWELL: Well, I don't think that they've released an official second date yet. But there is a little bit of worse weather, not bad weather, but just

a bit worse in the coming days. That set those SpaceX is really good at doing things again quickly. So it's possible that it might be very soon, or

they might wait a little bit.

It just depends on how comfortable they feel with both the weather and the technical matters. So I realized it's not much of an answer. But I can tell

you from more than 20 years of work that SpaceX is very good at making as choices and so we'll just have to see what they decide to do.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and just remind us for viewers, perhaps that are just joining us and didn't hear the discussion that we had earlier. The fact

that there is nobody aboard this rocket and shuttle and the importance of this launch, and this craft for future purposes, be it particularly a

hopeful moon landing in 2025.

HOWELL: Exactly. So what they're doing today is an un-crewed test. There's nobody on board, there's nobody nearby and the goal is to try and bring the

Starship into space. And then what they want to be doing in the very near term, maybe as soon as 2025, if you can believe it, is to bring NASA

Astronauts to the south pole of the moon.

And there, the Astronauts will be picking up moon rocks and maybe working a bit in the water ice and then bringing all this stuff back to Earth. And

the great thing about Starship compared with the Apollo generation is how much more can carry.

And so we can imagine a lot of stuff going back and forth between Earth and the Moon and even Earth and NASA's future gateway space station near the

moon. So it's going to be very useful and obviously great practice for Mars, right?

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. How much more can it carry? Just to your point?

HOWELL: I don't have those figures right on hand. But Elon Musk is that tweeted over the place, I'm sure yes.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we'll both go -- diligence on that now. Elizabeth, are such a tease because look, we can see it there and there's smoke and

everything. But yes, hopefully they'll learn they'll get back to it soon. Elizabeth Howell Staff Writer at! Thank you for joining us and

for your insights today.

OK, let's move on widespread condemnation now over the sentencing in Russia. Vladimir Kara-Murza, a prominent Kremlin critic. Kara-Murza, who

has Russian and British citizenship, was given 25-year sentence in prison after publicly criticizing Russia's war on Ukraine.

He was accused of treason and discrediting the Russian Military. Amnesty International calling the sentence a chilling example of the systematic

repression of civil society, Clare Sebastian joins us now. Clare, clearly widespread condemnation of the sentence the family has already said they'll

appeal but what hopes and have an appeal in Russia?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, it's pretty bleak, Julia, the Kremlin declining to comment but the message here is pretty clear. He's not

the only opposition figure now set to serve time in jail, Alexei Navalny more than nine years.


He's currently serving on fraud charges which he says are politically motivated he is said to be critically ill. Opposition politician Ilya

Yashin sentenced to 8.5 years in December for the one of the same charges leveled against Kara-Murza, which is discrediting the Russian army that new

law brought in after the invasion of Ukraine.

We've seen a significant uptick in repression at home since the start of the war in various ways, but the crackdown on dissent is clearly the main

one they were according to the Moscow court 40 diplomats in the courthouse today from 24 countries mostly it should be said, European including as

well the U.S. and Canada and Australia and New Zealand.

Three of those Ambassadors made statements outside the court. Take a listen to the U.S. Ambassador to Moscow, Lynn Tracy.


LYNNE TRACY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: Criminalization of criticism of government action is a sign of weakness, not strength. We support the right

of Mr. Kara-Murza and every Russian citizen to have a voice in the direction of their country.


SEBASTIAN: As you said, Mr. Kara-Murza held dual citizenship also British citizenship alongside Russia in the U.K. Foreign office has summoned the

Russian Ambassador to London to make it very clear that they see this as a violation of Russia's obligations on human rights, including the rights to

a fair trial.

The spokesman for the German government saying that would this chose what a shocking extent repression has reached in Russia and I want to read you the

tweet that came out from Mr. Kara-Murza's wife, Evgenia Kara-Murza, who has continued to campaign while he's been in prison.

She says a quarter century that is a five plus for your courage, consistency and honesty in your many years of work. I am eternally proud of

you, my dear and I am always with you. A+ is equivalent to five plus in Russian schools. So a quarter century clearly a significant sentence

showing that Russia is not backing down in this campaign of repression though, as I said Vladimir Kara-Murza's lawyers intend to appeal this


CHATTERLEY: Yes, his wife to her husband I'm always by your side. Great bravery and our heart and thoughts are with him and his family. Clare

Sebastian, thank you so much for that. OK, still to come.

A suspected settlement and when it from midnight twist in the defamation case against media giant Fox with the trial now delayed by a day. We'll

discuss what Dominion needs to prove to win the case if it ends up going ahead. Stay with us next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. And U.S. stocks have launched for trade this Monday morning. No take-off today for the SpaceX's Starship in

Texas. So, stocks have to do not a lot of rocket fire though, or propulsion on Wall Street either, as you can see relatively unchanged and a bit of


I think as nvestors await earnings for 59 companies in the S&P 500 this week, and that includes Goldman Sachs, Tesla and Netflix. Major U.S. banks,

JP Morgan, Citigroup, and Wells Fargo did deliver solid results late last week, though, but what smaller regional banks say about their bottom lines,

that are going to be a key test in the weeks ahead.

And we're also watching opening statements in Fox News's high stakes trial that were supposed to start today. But in the surprise twist Sunday night,

the judge put back the start of the $1.6 billion case until Tuesday. Dominion voting systems has accused Fox of knowingly broadcasting lies and

conspiracy theories about its voting machines after Donald Trump lost the 2020 election.

Private text messages show that several prominent Fox News hosts including Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity knew the claims they were airing were not

true. Fox has denied wrongdoing saying the U.S. Constitution protects the right to free speech. And joining us now to discuss this is Floyd Abrams.

He's a renowned First Amendment Attorney.

Floyd, fantastic to have you on the show! I want to discuss what's at stake and what Dominion has to prove in order to win this. But very quickly,

we've just heard from the judge Eric Davis saying that it's not unusual to have a one-day delay, it's six-week trial things happen. Just very quickly,

your view and what you've seen in the past. Is it unusual to have this one- day delay? And what do you think was taking place, if anything?

FLOYD ABRAMS, FIRST AMENDMENT ATTORNEY: It's not unusual for parties in the last -- second, before a trial begins to make a last try to see if they can

settle it. And that's what seems to be going on here.

I mean, here we have a major third, perhaps the most major since American libel law changed sort of radically, in a pro defendant pro press way,

where at large, enormously large press institution is at very real risk of a multi what, hundreds of hundreds of millions of dollars verdict against

them. So, it's no surprise that they would try to make a last moment settlement, whether that'll happen, and we'll just have to wait and see.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was going to say he's not said anything in open court about potential settlement talks, I do not guess, nor would you expect him

to, what's your gut feel flow based on all the information that you have? And then we'll do a deep dive on the probability that we do see some kind

of settlement above half?

ABRAMS: Yes, yes. I'd say above half. More I think, from the dominion perspective, because even if it wins this case, and wins the appeals and

appeals that will follow, the amount they receive may not be as cataclysmic as they're asking. So, if they can get enough from their perspective, they

might well be willing to take it.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, if you've ever even seen a billion-dollar recovery in a libel case, you can answer that.

ABRAMS: Never.

CHATTERLEY: Never, yes, and exactly. What does dominion need to prove in this case in order to win the case? Because you and I were talking about

this yesterday, and I was learning lots about the differences between the U.S. legal systems and elsewhere in the world and the bar here, the legal

bar is incredibly high.

ABRAMS: Yes, yes, it is. For a plaintiff the party is suing to win a libel case for dominion to win. They have to show not only what was said about

them was false. But that Fox either knew or suspected that what they were, what Fox was saying was false.


So, it's a state of mind requirement, where the plaintiff Dominion in this case, the party saying their reliable has to prove that the party that

they're suing really did it on purpose, knew what they were doing, or had the strongest sense that what they were saying wasn't true. It's a very

difficult burden to me, I think.

And I think a lot of people have followed this case, closely believed that Dominion has a quite good chance of doing just that. But we've never had

ever a verdict in the range that dominion is seeking. And all the lawyers who have anything to do with this field, I think, would be unhappy because

they want to see the game played.

I mean, it's almost like canceling the World Series from an American perspective, not to have this case, after all these years. And all these

depositions and testimony be in a sense of not, not really, because any settlement would have to be cataclysmic.

CHATTERLEY: You know, I think one of the things that are vitally important for us to discuss in this case, as well, beyond the sort of hand rubbing

the sort of consequences and the financial, perhaps benefits for the legal industry, and this is the precedent that it would be setting against news

media in general.

And I think this is something you've written an op-ed about this, which is vitally important as well, is, can the press be held liable for quoting,

false and defamatory claims, by prominent figures? And questioning it's not whether you promote that view yourself. But can the press be held liable

for at least raising the question? Because that also comes to bear in this and I know you've fought cases in the past and one on appeal where this

question came up?

ABRAMS: Yes, yes. So, it's a very important question. You know, I said earlier that the legal test relates to the state of mind of the

journalistic entity, but what sort of state of mind and then how, suppose they think or sort of thing or sort of doubt, what they're saying might not

be true. We don't have cases in that sort of grey area.

And we've certainly never had a case in which we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars; Dominion is seeking over a billion dollars in

damages. It's also a case that's rather unusual, where I'd say, an awful lot of First Amendment types, I can -- one of sort of rooting quietly,

usually, for dominion to win.

I mean, in my view, it would not be a loss for free speech, but a vindication of truth telling and a punishment of deliberate falsification,

if the jury were to find that a Dominion wins the case.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, because it's about far more than just defamation in this case, it's about knowingly misleading, the public about something and

something really big, like a U.S. election.

ABRAMS: And it's the most important or the broadcaster with more people who watch it than any other.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. I'm not going to say any more about that without looking into in some way bias. But yes, big, big question certainly, Floyd being

asked. Yes, we're going to have to see now, again, you said that you think it's more likely than not that this gets settled? Will we have to know the

amount it get settled for?

ABRAMS: The only reason I said that is that you made me guess how, what's going to come out. But yes, look, if I were on the Fox board, if I were on

the Fox board, I would say, for God's sakes find a way to end this thing.

CHATTERLEY: Right. Dope (ph) -- our anchors are on the witness stand or Rupert Murdoch himself.

ABRAMS: That's right. That's right. And that's something else that will happen if this case proceeds to trial, that Mr. Murdoch himself would have

to testify and defend or try to defend as best he could the journalism, which is certainly subject to very severe criticism by people who care

deeply for the First Amendment.


CHATTERLEY: Right. Floyd, great to chat to you thank you so much! And thank you for educating me this weekend too. It was a fascinating conversation.

We'll speak again soon.

ABRAMS: Thanks.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. All right, coming up, investing in protecting the undersea world. When it comes to philanthropic funding, what we've received

is a mere drop in the ocean, why, after the break an artificial alternative to rebuilding our beautiful coral reefs.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Japanese police have raided the home of a man they believe to an explosive device near the prime minister

over the weekend. The dramatic moment was recorded and posted online. And CNN's Marc Stewart has the details.

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As soon as the risk of danger became apparent during the campaign stop, Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida

security team immediately sprang into action. It's a moment that was caught on camera and posted on social media.

The video shows a member of the security detail kicking away a pipe bomb that appears to have been thrown in the Prime Minister's direction. That

officer then uses a protective gourd to shield Kishida as he's rushed away from the scene.

And then moments later the sound of an explosion over the weekend police raided the home of the 24-year-old suspect they removed several items

including a computer, a mobile phone, tools and what appears to be gunpowder, Japanese public broadcaster NHK say.

This scare occurred as international leaders converge on Japan this week ahead of the g7 conference next month in Hiroshima, and less than a year

after the assassination of former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. The prime minister addressed questions about safety.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For event schedules like the g7 summit where dignitaries from around the world gather. I believe Japan nationwide will have to work

together to make the utmost effort to provide security and safety.


STEWART: In Japan local campaigns events like the one attended by the prime minister are very common and often without extensive security restrictions.

Marc Stewart, CNN, Tokyo.

CHATTERLEY: We're back up to this. Stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Coral reef cover less than a 10th of 1 percent of the world's oceans and yet they support over a quarter of

our planet's marine life and a billion people who also rely on fishing tourism and other related industries. But it's a well-known fact that

climate change threatens their very existence.

Right now, we lose more coral in a day that can be restored in a decade. However, a new project to install more resilient artificial versions is

taking shape. These specifically manufactured weeps off the coast of Antigua and Barbuda consists of pH neutral concrete skeletons made of

calcium carbonate.

They mimic natural reefs using corals which are grown in an underwater nursery and attached to the original skeleton. Dr. Deborah Brosnan is a

Marine Scientist at Ocean-Shot Project. She's also President and Founder of Brosnan and Associates. Dr. Brosnan Deborah, fantastic to have you on the

show! Just explain the vision of this vital technology and the focus of what you're trying to achieve.

DR. DEBORAH BROSNAN, MARINE SCIENTIST, OCEAN-SHOT PROJECT: Yes, so first of all, coral reefs are vital to our economy and also to the health of the

planet, as well as our own health. And as he pointed out, we're losing more calls in a day than we can currently restore in a decade.

So, John Paul DeJoria, who is supporting this project, and I sat down one day and said, what can we do to speed up the restoration of these coral

reefs, and to make it scalable and transferable to other nations around the world that need this kind of technology, and need their -- reefs.

And coral reefs are amazing, because it's a combination of the corals. So, corals are both architects, and they're builders. So, this tiny call, it

looks like a tea anemone actually creates a whole skeleton of calcium carbonate concrete, if you like. So, the whole reef structures that we see

whether it's a great barrier reef, or off the coast of Florida, is made literally by this tiny coral secreting the calcium carbonate.

So, what we're looking at here is not just restoring endangered corals themselves, but also the kinds of structures that they build over hundreds

and thousands of years. But to do it at a faster rate, so that we can keep up with climate change, keep up with the calls, that we're losing the reef

that we're losing, and how to restore that resilience on which a billion people depend right now. So that's the vision behind it.

CHATTERLEY: And we're just showing some images now. So, you can see what looks to be traditional reef attached to this, this new structure. Is it

about designing technology to replace what we've lost or something that's more superior, something that can survive what comes in the future? Whether

it's climate change or different wave patterns? Is that a stupid question or a valid one?

BROSNAN: No, no, it's not a stupid question. It's a valid question because what you're asking here is really are we designing for the past or are we

designing for the future.



BROSNAN: And what we're doing is, we're designing for the future, we're taking everything that coral reefs have taught us and the evolution of

reefs for millions of years and we're enhancing it.

So, we're asking ourselves, what is the world going to look like? What is sea level going to look like? What our beach is going to look like in 50,

100, 150 years? And how do we design reefs and monitor those reefs, for the conditions that we will be facing. In essence, to give the reefs a leg up,

to transition them to a new world, and also to transition ourselves because we depend so much on reefs.

So, we are using AI technology. We are, for instance, we have some AI technology cameras that are now deployed on these roof structures. And

they're looking at what kind of survival we're getting called, what kind of species are coming into the reef.

And right now, we've planted nine different species, we're getting 97, to 98 percent survival of those newly planted corals. But we also have 20s. I

know, it's amazing, which types of corals are tough and features and resilient. And we have 26 species that moved in there. So, when you build

the right structure, when you work it through, it works.

CHATTERLEY: I mean congratulations! Is all I can say on that point, which is phenomenal progress? How quickly does it take, though, to grow and get

more species back? You know we can reiterate that statistic again, that we're losing more in a day than we can build in a decade. How quickly can

we accelerate the rebuild? And what does it take money, obviously, but just in terms of the technology.

BROSNAN: Yes. It takes money science; it takes investment science, technology, and people willing, willing actually to do the work. Is it

possible? Yes, it is possible. This is very doable. I mean, John Paul and I are actually doing it. Other people can do it. And there's a lot of

investment, we're seeing now a lot of good work going into coral reefs.

So how long does it take? It really depends on how quickly we can really grow the corals. And we're now growing resilient corals; there are several

groups that are growing with resilient corals. So, we know that the corals can survive the transition.

And really the trick is to be able to build these reefs fast enough and scalable enough that we can deploy them in different parts of the world.

It's not this, we've got the science, this is not an intractable problem. I feel like saying it's not rocket science, because it is so doable. It's

very practical. We just have to do it.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And this is the key. It's about the well; I think and people understanding how essential this is. The numbers, the statistics on

this, just blow my mind. It's minuscule the amount of funding that our oceans get.

If we look at it in terms of the sustainable development goals, I believe it's 0.56 percent of all the philanthropic funding that goes to that, which

just makes no sense to me, given how much of the fishing tourism communities rely on the protection of our oceans.

Deborah, is it just a mindset where people need to understand not only the importance, but that we can de-risk the investment in this sphere? Because

from conversations I've had, it's this perception that it's just too risky. And the return is, is not there.

BROSNAN: Yes, you're exactly spot on, it's really changing the mindset. The oceans have always been seen as high risk. And yet, if the oceans were a

country, they'd be ranked seventh in the world in terms of GDP.


BROSNAN: --tells mass of the oceans are and how important they are to us. So, it is this mindset that the oceans are almost an alien environment that

they're very risky to invest in, and that, so we've avoided them. But we've learned a lot about our oceans, we've learned how to do risk. So, it's

really about getting more people to invest in the oceans.

And we're starting to see that, we're starting to see it happen in companies that are investing, we're starting to see it in private equity.

And we're starting to see it in public private partnerships. But we don't, we're not nearly there yet. We're just starting to turn the tide. So, a lot

more is needed. But the return on investments is there.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's good. I have about a minute left. What about, what we can do as people listening to this conversation as consumers as sushi

munches, ocean fairies and beach lovers, what can we do?

BROSNAN: We can do a lot. I think the first mistake that we often make as individuals is to think the problem is so intractable that we can do



BROSNAN: But we had a huge impact. And we had a huge impact in the choices that we make, whether it's eating sustainable seafood, whether it's going

to places that support the kind of ecotourism or protection of the environment, and get and rewarding those companies or those communities and

supporting those communities.

And then it's about spreading the word. It's about letting people know that you care. Because one of the things I found is that the private sector

listens to its customers and listen to what people are saying and listens to what matters to them. And if we as individuals and communities talk to

the companies, talk to the government and say look this really matters to us, we need you to put your investment in here.


We need you to take care of our environment and the communities that depend on the environment. They listen because that directly affects the bottom


CHATTERLEY: Yes, we have to honest that power, and I believe your next reef is set to be placed off the coast of Barbuda and it's going to be 150

meters long.


CHATTERLEY: Is still -- anyone is planning a holiday in, to your point putting money where your mouth is and interest -- risen in, yes, there we


BROSNAN: Good, thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Marine Scientist at the Ocean-Shot Project, great to have you. Thank you. OK and finally on FIRST MOVE fans at the highly anticipated live

re-union of love is blind were left -- disappointed after a technical glitch got in the way of a live streaming event. For those in the dark like

me, the series reach us couples that propose before seeing one and another.

Netflix says a taped version of this show will be available to what later on Monday, perhaps not the sort of hitch fans were hoping for. I didn't

write that, but that's great. Not sure about the marriage prospects there with the divorce rate. But anyway, that's it for the show. CONNECT THE

WORLD is up next. I'll see you tomorrow.